Latest / Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby / Family Cut Offs: What to Know, How to Deal, and Find a Way Forward | E530

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Family Cut Offs: What to Know, How to Deal, and Find a Way Forward | E530 · Love, Happiness and Success with Dr. Lisa Marie Bobby

0:11
Speaker 1: Quick hello before we dive in n a big thank
0:14
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Speaker 1: links and codes are in the show notes for this episode.
1:22
Speaker 1: Now let's get into it. As a small child, we
1:35
Speaker 1: get what we get in the parent department, but as
1:38
Speaker 1: an adult you get to make decisions about what kind
1:43
Speaker 1: of relationships you want to have in your life, and
1:46
Speaker 1: if your relationship with your parent is stressful, hard, even toxic,
1:54
Speaker 1: you might be wondering if there's any hope to change it,
1:58
Speaker 1: or if it would be atter choice to step away
2:01
Speaker 1: all together.
2:07
Speaker 2: This is what you'll hear, I'm sure from adult children,
2:10
Speaker 2: which is they undermine me, they don't believe in me,
2:13
Speaker 2: they doubt me, they tell me what to do, so
2:17
Speaker 2: that means they don't trust my judgment. That means they
2:19
Speaker 2: don't respect me, and they don't listen to my boundaries.
2:32
Speaker 1: On the other side, if you're a parent of adult
2:35
Speaker 1: children who you are feeling getting further away or maybe
2:40
Speaker 1: they have made a break, that can be frustrating, heartbreaking
2:45
Speaker 1: and just agonizing, especially if you don't know what to
2:49
Speaker 1: do to repair it.
2:50
Speaker 2: A lot of times parents of adult children do not
2:53
Speaker 2: understand that how they parented the first eighteen years has
2:57
Speaker 2: to be almost totally thrown out the way for that
3:01
Speaker 2: next season of parenting.
3:03
Speaker 1: By the end of today's show, you're going to have
3:05
Speaker 1: new insight into why these relationships rupture, but more importantly,
3:11
Speaker 1: what you can do now to repair and strengthen yours.
3:15
Speaker 2: You know, quit giving advice and start asking great questions
3:19
Speaker 2: without an agenda. Then it would create a deeper level
3:23
Speaker 2: of trust and respect.
3:43
Speaker 1: If this is your first time with me today, welcome.
3:45
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here. I'm doctor Lisa Marine Bobby.
3:48
Speaker 1: This is love, happiness and success. I'm a psychologist, a
3:51
Speaker 1: marriage and family therapist, a board certified coach, and every
3:55
Speaker 1: week we are talking about I think important and relevant
3:59
Speaker 1: issues that are all intended to help you have a
4:02
Speaker 1: better life, develop yourself of stronger relationships. You thnk attraction
4:07
Speaker 1: in your career. So today's topic is a big one,
4:10
Speaker 1: and I tell you, as a professional therapist, I can't
4:13
Speaker 1: think of anything that comes up more frequently in my
4:16
Speaker 1: sessions with my clients is you know, let's talk about
4:20
Speaker 1: your parents. This is not parent bashing. We are not
4:23
Speaker 1: here to be upset with or mad at anybody's parents,
4:26
Speaker 1: but rather to say, you know, who were your parents,
4:30
Speaker 1: what kind of people were they like, what were their
4:31
Speaker 1: personalities like? And for better or for worse, what kind
4:35
Speaker 1: of culture did you come from in your family of origin?
4:38
Speaker 1: And how did that impact the person that you grew
4:42
Speaker 1: into being? And that is such valuable work. I think
4:46
Speaker 1: it can create perspective on who we are, where we
4:50
Speaker 1: come from, and frequently generate more compassion and understanding for
4:55
Speaker 1: our parents as we are adults and are able to
4:59
Speaker 1: see them as adults, and that can be really helpful
5:02
Speaker 1: positive work, especially as we think about how our relationships
5:06
Speaker 1: with our parents evolve over time, because you know, the
5:10
Speaker 1: relationship you had with your mom when you were fourteen
5:12
Speaker 1: is obviously going to be real different than the one
5:14
Speaker 1: that you have with our when you're thirty four, when
5:17
Speaker 1: you're forty four. But it's also true and surprisingly common
5:23
Speaker 1: that people can get into adulthood and experience their parents
5:28
Speaker 1: as being very challenging in the here and now. There
5:33
Speaker 1: can be unfinished emotional business from the past that gets
5:36
Speaker 1: in the way of our ability to have positive relationships
5:39
Speaker 1: with our parents in the present. But even worse, sometimes
5:42
Speaker 1: you're in relationships with parents who are actually engaging in
5:46
Speaker 1: destructive behaviors that are wounding to us right now, and
5:52
Speaker 1: it can feel very, very difficult to broach these sometimes
5:56
Speaker 1: sensitive conversations with our parents in hopes of making it different.
6:01
Speaker 1: Perhaps you've tried and it didn't go well. Maybe your
6:04
Speaker 1: parents get defensive, and that's really hard or you might
6:07
Speaker 1: be tuning into this podcast right now as a parent
6:10
Speaker 1: whose adult child is you know, kind of spinning away
6:15
Speaker 1: from you and you want to reconnect, but you don't
6:17
Speaker 1: know how. And so that is what we're doing on
6:20
Speaker 1: today's show. And I'm so pleased to be connecting with
6:24
Speaker 1: a true expert on this subject to help us guide
6:27
Speaker 1: our understanding of the situation, but also to offer perspective
6:31
Speaker 1: and some practical tips on what to do. So my
6:35
Speaker 1: guest today is Katherine hickham ELSISW She's a longtime therapist
6:40
Speaker 1: and the founder of Parenting Adult Children Today, where she
6:44
Speaker 1: helps parents build strong and respectful relationships where they're with
6:49
Speaker 1: their adult children. And she's also the author of Regret
6:53
Speaker 1: Free Parenting, Raise.
6:54
Speaker 2: Good Kids, Know You're doing it right. And in this.
6:57
Speaker 1: Conversation, Catherine and I are going to be into some
7:01
Speaker 1: practical strategies to keep parent child relationships positive across the lifespan,
7:09
Speaker 1: hopefully looking at both sides of this equation because everybody
7:14
Speaker 1: has responsibilities here. So Catherine, thank you so much for
7:18
Speaker 1: spending this time with me today.
7:19
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. Thank you so much, Lisa for
7:22
Speaker 2: just having the vision to understand why this is such
7:24
Speaker 2: an important topic, So thank you.
7:27
Speaker 1: So I can't wait to get into this and I'll
7:29
Speaker 1: share you know, as a therapist, I'm a psychologist, I'm
7:33
Speaker 1: a marriage and family therapist. That it is frequently a
7:36
Speaker 1: topic of conversation. Sure that I have therapy or sometimes
7:40
Speaker 1: coaching clients who have very challenging relationships with their parents
7:46
Speaker 1: and are sometimes struggling around this feels so toxic for me?
7:52
Speaker 1: Do I maintain this relationship? Would it be better for
7:55
Speaker 1: me if I took a step back? If so far back?
7:59
Speaker 1: And it is an agonizing thing to consider, But I
8:03
Speaker 1: know that you work so closely with parents on the
8:06
Speaker 1: other side of this, whose adults children have made that decision,
8:11
Speaker 1: and let's just start there. From their point of view,
8:17
Speaker 1: what does this look like to them?
8:20
Speaker 2: Well, most of them are blindsided. They do not see
8:23
Speaker 2: it coming. And so that has been one of the
8:25
Speaker 2: most interesting observations I've made to this point is that
8:29
Speaker 2: they will say I had no idea. And I think
8:31
Speaker 2: the concern of that, Lisa, is that that tells me
8:35
Speaker 2: a lot. When you have not been picking up all
8:38
Speaker 2: the signs and signals that have been given to you
8:41
Speaker 2: over time, you didn't read them because this. They didn't
8:44
Speaker 2: just wake up one morning and say I'm done with
8:46
Speaker 2: my mom and dad. This has been building.
8:48
Speaker 1: No, they've been talking to me about it for like
8:50
Speaker 1: three years.
8:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that's exactly right. And so the fact that
8:54
Speaker 2: their surprised is always interesting to me. I'm always curious
8:57
Speaker 2: about that because it's never a surprise to the adult child.
9:01
Speaker 2: It has been building over time to the point where
9:04
Speaker 2: they're just done that there's a final straw that says
9:07
Speaker 2: I'm done right, and there's a thing that I like
9:10
Speaker 2: that goes. No one's to blame and everyone's responsible. Now.
9:13
Speaker 2: Sometimes the responsibility might be ninety percent parents and ten
9:17
Speaker 2: percent children. Sometimes it could be a fifty to fifty.
9:20
Speaker 2: But I think the challenge is it's a breakdown in communication.
9:24
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of times parents of adult
9:26
Speaker 2: children do not understand that how they parented the first
9:30
Speaker 2: eighteen years has to be almost totally thrown out the
9:34
Speaker 2: window for that next season of parenting. And no one
9:38
Speaker 2: has really talked to parents about how they have to
9:41
Speaker 2: do it differently and why they need to do it differently.
9:44
Speaker 2: On some level, they understand it, but they don't have
9:47
Speaker 2: the skills to appreciate the shift and their role and
9:51
Speaker 2: why they need to make the shifts because what ends
9:54
Speaker 2: up happening. And this is what you'll hear, I'm sure
9:56
Speaker 2: from adult children, which is they undermine me, they don't
10:00
Speaker 2: believe in me, they doubt me, they tell me what
10:03
Speaker 2: to do, So that means they don't trust my judgment.
10:06
Speaker 2: That means they don't respect me, and they don't listen
10:09
Speaker 2: to my boundaries. Well, you know what, how can you
10:13
Speaker 2: blame them for not wanting to walk away if the
10:16
Speaker 2: definition of normal is they feel controlled, dismissed, disrespected, and
10:21
Speaker 2: not seen right, Yeah, and then throw in expectations that
10:27
Speaker 2: parents have often placed upon them that they didn't sign
10:30
Speaker 2: up for, but we're still placed upon them. And then
10:33
Speaker 2: you throw in the fear factor, which looks like control.
10:36
Speaker 2: And now we have a hot mess, and now we
10:39
Speaker 2: have a problem and people don't know how to get
10:41
Speaker 2: it out of the problem. And part of it is
10:44
Speaker 2: parents need to have to come to the reality you
10:49
Speaker 2: just can't parent the way you always parented, and they
10:51
Speaker 2: just don't understand that. And so this is the reason
10:54
Speaker 2: why one of the reasons I exist is because I
10:58
Speaker 2: really appreciate the challenges that adult children have with parents
11:02
Speaker 2: who aren't listening or who don't understand. Now, I'm not
11:05
Speaker 2: looking to blame. I don't think blame helps anybody. Of course,
11:08
Speaker 2: think though, awareness and ownership of what's my part in
11:13
Speaker 2: something is really important, right, And so I'm trying to
11:17
Speaker 2: approach this from a very healthy, respectful, honorable way. But
11:20
Speaker 2: I talk to adult children and I also deal mostly
11:25
Speaker 2: with parents that a lot of times I'm helping adult
11:28
Speaker 2: children know how to have the hard conversations with their
11:31
Speaker 2: parents so their parents will really listen because they're not listening.
11:35
Speaker 2: That's one of the major problems, are not listening right,
11:37
Speaker 2: And it's hard. It's just really painful, it really is.
11:41
Speaker 1: But I think that people feel trapped, they feel helpless,
11:44
Speaker 1: they feel like they've tried right, and it feels like
11:48
Speaker 1: they have no other alternative sometimes. But can I just
11:51
Speaker 1: pause here, Like, I love what you're saying, Catherine, And
11:53
Speaker 1: it's such a compassionate perspective in some ways, because being
11:57
Speaker 1: a parent is so challenged and it's just it never ends, right.
12:02
Speaker 1: I Mean, being the parent of a baby is totally
12:05
Speaker 1: different than being the parent of a toddler, which is
12:08
Speaker 1: different than a preschooler, is it a high schooler?
12:10
Speaker 2: Right?
12:11
Speaker 1: And like these these kids just keep evolving and there's.
12:14
Speaker 2: No map and we're all kind of figuring it out
12:16
Speaker 2: as we're going along.
12:17
Speaker 1: And I say this now as a parent of a
12:18
Speaker 1: high schooler, right, yeah, okay, now what.
12:20
Speaker 2: Are we doing?
12:21
Speaker 1: And just to your point, there isn't really a map,
12:25
Speaker 1: and that parents sometimes don't understand that they need to
12:29
Speaker 1: keep evolving as a parent. The relationship changes, and so
12:34
Speaker 1: they have one set of old expectations that might have
12:37
Speaker 1: been true for a thirteen year old, but when they're
12:39
Speaker 1: trying to apply that to a thirty three year old,
12:42
Speaker 1: it doesn't work and it feels so hard. And so
12:46
Speaker 1: but just for anybody listening whose parent relationship has been
12:50
Speaker 1: feeling really fraught, it doesn't mean that they're an evil
12:53
Speaker 1: person or that they are have bad intentions. Might mean
12:56
Speaker 1: that they really don't know. But to your point, they're
13:01
Speaker 1: also not listening.
13:03
Speaker 2: And the hard part, it is so hard because when
13:07
Speaker 2: someone doesn't listen, I mean, you and I are in
13:09
Speaker 2: the listening business, right, that's what we do for a living,
13:11
Speaker 2: is what we don't, Right, And how many people have
13:14
Speaker 2: walked into your office and you're the first person who's
13:17
Speaker 2: really really heard them, right, I had this one guy
13:21
Speaker 2: walk in. I said, Hi, it was his first session.
13:24
Speaker 2: I said, hey, how are you glad you're here? Tell
13:26
Speaker 2: me what brings you here today? He talked for fifty
13:29
Speaker 2: five minutes, did not come up for air one time.
13:33
Speaker 2: And so we get to the end of the session
13:35
Speaker 2: and I said, would you like to come back? He
13:36
Speaker 2: said yes. So the following week he comes back and
13:39
Speaker 2: I said, so tell me, you know, where do you
13:41
Speaker 2: want to start today? And he was, you are a
13:43
Speaker 2: fabulous therapist. You know about how white? I was. I
13:48
Speaker 2: just got to that's a word right present, I was.
13:54
Speaker 2: I listened. I noticed his body language. It was like
13:59
Speaker 2: I was engaged. Yeah, for an hour, complete just engage.
14:02
Speaker 2: He had not had that in years. So valuable, And
14:05
Speaker 2: so it's I think we underestimate the power of listening.
14:08
Speaker 2: I think we under estimate the power of being curious.
14:12
Speaker 2: You know, if we would, just as parents would, just
14:14
Speaker 2: be curious and you know, quit giving advice and start
14:19
Speaker 2: asking great questions without an agenda, then it would create
14:24
Speaker 2: a deeper level of trust and respect, because that means
14:27
Speaker 2: the kid would thinking, oh, they're really interested in me,
14:30
Speaker 2: not the issue that we're talking about, right, they really
14:33
Speaker 2: care about what's happening inside me? Right, It's about them
14:37
Speaker 2: being able to say, well, is this because this is
14:39
Speaker 2: going to make my mom and dad look good or
14:41
Speaker 2: look bad? Or is it they care about how I'm
14:44
Speaker 2: being impacted by the situation.
14:46
Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:46
Speaker 2: And what I tell parents all the time is, look,
14:49
Speaker 2: your kids were hostage to you for eighteen years. They
14:52
Speaker 2: know exactly what your buttons are. They can recall mom
14:57
Speaker 2: moments in time where you may have made comments about
15:00
Speaker 2: other people's kids that they made bad choices and decisions.
15:03
Speaker 2: And don't kid yourself to think that didn't register in
15:07
Speaker 2: their brain. Oh, I better not do that because this
15:11
Speaker 2: is how mom and dad feel about it. And therefore,
15:14
Speaker 2: now where does the kid go? Because they're going to
15:17
Speaker 2: they don't feel safe that they can make mistakes without
15:20
Speaker 2: there being a consequence or judgment. So what parents are
15:23
Speaker 2: not understanding their parenting in the moment that they're in.
15:27
Speaker 2: But our adult children have a lifetime trove of memories
15:33
Speaker 2: and conversations. Yes, they understand their parents' positions because they
15:38
Speaker 2: know their values, They know their morals, they know their
15:41
Speaker 2: sense of right or wrong. They know whether they're very
15:44
Speaker 2: judgmental or critical. They know whether they can how they
15:48
Speaker 2: quote treat people if someone disappoints them. All of that
15:51
Speaker 2: history comes into every conversation with a mom and dad man,
15:55
Speaker 2: and parents have no clue what that's going through their
16:01
Speaker 2: child's head because they don't feel safe to tell them.
16:04
Speaker 2: So this is why they start to back off. This
16:06
Speaker 2: is why they keep them at a distance. This is
16:08
Speaker 2: why they give them information only on a moment to
16:11
Speaker 2: moment basis or need to know basis, because there's all
16:15
Speaker 2: this fear of if they know this, will they change
16:18
Speaker 2: how they feel about me? Will they treat me the
16:21
Speaker 2: same as my siblings? Will they be permanently disappointed and
16:24
Speaker 2: not trust me anymore? Will they throw it back in
16:27
Speaker 2: my face? I mean, all these things are back here
16:30
Speaker 2: that never come out here. And when a parance is
16:35
Speaker 2: just going like I need to know this, and when
16:38
Speaker 2: they don't respect who a child is an adult child,
16:44
Speaker 2: then they're going to get more and more distance, more
16:47
Speaker 2: and more silence. And this is what I call the
16:49
Speaker 2: drift to the point where they drift away. Parents don't
16:52
Speaker 2: even know it until now they're in crisis and they
16:54
Speaker 2: wake up one morning and their relationship is broken because
16:57
Speaker 2: the parents are scared to quote, look at the selves
17:01
Speaker 2: and what they're doing, and they're scared to quote confront
17:03
Speaker 2: because now they're walking on eggshells. And so now we
17:06
Speaker 2: have a problem because no one feels safe.
17:09
Speaker 1: No one feels safe, and it's very systemic, you know,
17:13
Speaker 1: just as you're talking that there's like a dance that's happening. Yes,
17:16
Speaker 1: and so just to slow this down a little bit
17:19
Speaker 1: so that we can make sure we understand. And there
17:22
Speaker 1: are many parts here, but one part is that there
17:26
Speaker 1: is a lifetime of experiences that were you know, started
17:31
Speaker 1: in toddlerhood and infancy where a child learned who this
17:36
Speaker 1: parent is and what I can expect from this person
17:40
Speaker 1: that had a lot.
17:41
Speaker 2: Of power and control over them.
17:42
Speaker 1: As an early person, there might have been punishment or
17:45
Speaker 1: criticism or other types of things that turn it within
17:49
Speaker 1: a child to I know who you are, I know
17:52
Speaker 1: what to expect from you, and I know what's going
17:54
Speaker 1: to happen if I defy you or say something that
17:58
Speaker 1: you don't like, And that self can be extremely inhibiting
18:03
Speaker 1: in a now adult child's psyche that makes them feel
18:07
Speaker 1: like they cannot even broach a hard conversation with their
18:10
Speaker 1: parents in the first place. If I'm understanding you right now,
18:13
Speaker 1: like one part of this.
18:15
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly right. Yea. You know I had I
18:18
Speaker 2: actually had a situation last week. I have a really
18:21
Speaker 2: really good friend and I was talking to her about
18:24
Speaker 2: the Epstein files and I said, people should not be
18:26
Speaker 2: reading those because I said, anyone who has trauma is
18:30
Speaker 2: going to be re traumatized by reading those files. I said, so,
18:33
Speaker 2: unless you're trained, you really have no business reading that
18:36
Speaker 2: information for the just by virtue of the trauma that
18:39
Speaker 2: can happen to you if you have a trauma in
18:42
Speaker 2: the past.
18:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
18:43
Speaker 2: So and so she said, hey, would you mind saying
18:46
Speaker 2: that to my daughter, who will remain nameless because and
18:49
Speaker 2: I'm really good friends with her daughter, who's twenty three.
18:51
Speaker 2: So she called her daughter and she said, hey, can
18:54
Speaker 2: you come here for a minute. And the daughter said,
18:55
Speaker 2: and is there? Am I in trouble? And she said no,
19:00
Speaker 2: I just I just wanted you to hear something. And
19:02
Speaker 2: so she walked in and she looked real sheepus and
19:04
Speaker 2: she said, is there a problem? And mom said no,
19:08
Speaker 2: I just think Catherine has something to say that I
19:09
Speaker 2: think's really important. So later I said to her, I said,
19:13
Speaker 2: what was that about? How come?
19:16
Speaker 1: Why is your kid like, oh, no, yeah, and she.
19:19
Speaker 2: Said, you know, I just remember when I was a teenager,
19:21
Speaker 2: if mom asked me to come in, that usually meant
19:23
Speaker 2: I was in trouble or I had done something that
19:26
Speaker 2: I needed to explain. And she said she was nice
19:29
Speaker 2: about it, but she said, I just knew that I
19:31
Speaker 2: was probably in trouble for something. And I was like,
19:35
Speaker 2: that was the perfect example right there of what I'm
19:38
Speaker 2: talking about that happens all the time with parents and
19:41
Speaker 2: adult children. Parents are simply asking simple current questions that
19:46
Speaker 2: have nothing to do with the past. History is coming
19:51
Speaker 2: to the present for the adult children, that interferes with
19:55
Speaker 2: their abilities to have a really true and honest relationship.
19:58
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, I will say this killer mother and daughter.
20:00
Speaker 2: They actually have a pretty good relationship, but in this
20:03
Speaker 2: particular moment, it highlighted this particular issue. So we were
20:07
Speaker 2: able to talk about it, and I think, you know,
20:09
Speaker 2: they're often running, Oh that's so good, So I think
20:12
Speaker 2: it ended really well. But it was such a great
20:15
Speaker 2: example of what can happen so easily that parents don't
20:18
Speaker 2: recognize that a parent's tone of voice, how they present
20:23
Speaker 2: something is very impactful on how our adult children will
20:27
Speaker 2: hear it.
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Speaker 1: your one dollar a month free trial. I'm imagining that Katherine,
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Speaker 1: interested observer right now, and maybe one of those people
24:02
Speaker 1: is a young adult who's or even older whose relationship
24:06
Speaker 1: with their parents is feeling very hard. There might be
24:09
Speaker 1: a parent who has an adult child that it's gone
24:13
Speaker 1: off the rails and they're heartbroken and here because they're
24:15
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to fix it. But there
24:17
Speaker 1: are also other people like you know, and I would
24:19
Speaker 1: put myself in this category of someone who still has
24:23
Speaker 1: kids at home and thinking about what are you doing
24:27
Speaker 1: while your children are still children that is setting the
24:31
Speaker 1: foundation for a beautiful relationship with these people when they're
24:35
Speaker 1: forty years old and right, because I think that that
24:40
Speaker 1: matters what comes up for you when I say that
24:43
Speaker 1: I know about that a lot, honestly.
24:45
Speaker 2: Oh my kids. That is such a great point, Lisa,
24:48
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why because one of the things
24:50
Speaker 2: when I was in my the first twenty something years
24:53
Speaker 2: my practice, it was just parenting under eighteen, right, and
24:57
Speaker 2: one of the things I would really talk to parents
25:00
Speaker 2: about at that time was when you get upset or
25:03
Speaker 2: angry when your child has made a mistake. Your child's
25:08
Speaker 2: immediate focus isn't on the mistake that they've made, but
25:12
Speaker 2: on how to manage your behavior. They're not going to
25:15
Speaker 2: learn the lesson that they needed to learn about their
25:19
Speaker 2: mista because they're too busy trying to figure out how
25:22
Speaker 2: do I do a work around, how do I manage
25:24
Speaker 2: how do I get them to calm down? So they're
25:27
Speaker 2: not focused on themselves, they're focused on the parents. And
25:31
Speaker 2: now we've lost the opportunity for them to learn a
25:34
Speaker 2: really important lesson because our kids' anxiety rises when we
25:40
Speaker 2: get crazy, as it should, because it says we're not
25:43
Speaker 2: in control. It says we're being driven by fear. It
25:46
Speaker 2: says when we are not believing that the whole job
25:49
Speaker 2: of parenting is to teach, it's to lead, it's to
25:53
Speaker 2: help direct and guide and to teach them how to
25:57
Speaker 2: have good critical thinking skills, which you got to have
25:59
Speaker 2: experiences of making mistakes in order to develop good crip,
26:03
Speaker 2: of course, but for some reason parents seem to lose
26:06
Speaker 2: their crap when they or their kids do some stupid things. Well,
26:10
Speaker 2: you know what, that's what childhood is about, that's what
26:13
Speaker 2: adolescence is about. Hopefully it's not so stupid that they
26:16
Speaker 2: causes them their life. I mean, that's we're getting into
26:19
Speaker 2: a high risk But I'm saying like ninety nine percent
26:22
Speaker 2: of the time, they're just life moments that happen. They're impulsive, whatever,
26:27
Speaker 2: that's our job. Our job is to help them learn
26:30
Speaker 2: from it, figure it out, get better at it. And
26:33
Speaker 2: parents don't understand their job. They think it's about perfection.
26:36
Speaker 2: They think it's about what their GPA, which collars they
26:39
Speaker 2: get into, And I'm like, you have missed the point.
26:42
Speaker 2: Your job is a parent of children who are in
26:44
Speaker 2: your home is to raise them from the inside. Out
26:48
Speaker 2: the GPA, the what school they get into. That's outside,
26:52
Speaker 2: But inside is their character. Inside is who they are.
26:56
Speaker 2: Do they like themselves? Do they have that internal confident?
27:00
Speaker 2: Do they have good critical thinking? Skills. Do they know
27:02
Speaker 2: how to communicate what their needs are? Do they know
27:05
Speaker 2: how to identify their feelings? That's what a healthy person is,
27:09
Speaker 2: and our job is to raise healthy people. If we
27:11
Speaker 2: raise healthy people, we don't have to worry about the GPA.
27:14
Speaker 2: We don't have to worry about what they'll accomplish, because
27:17
Speaker 2: they'll be successful because they'll want to be as the
27:19
Speaker 2: overflow of what's inside of them. But we don't always
27:25
Speaker 2: do that, and then we get micromanaging parents of adult
27:29
Speaker 2: children who regret the things they didn't do when they
27:33
Speaker 2: were home, and now they're trying to make up for it,
27:35
Speaker 2: and they're overstepping boundaries and they're being disrespectful.
27:41
Speaker 1: Oh, there's so much here to unpack, but that you're
27:44
Speaker 1: saying that you set the foundation of having a positive
27:49
Speaker 1: relationship with adult children far in the past through your
27:54
Speaker 1: ability to regulate yourself and beare an emotionally safe person
28:00
Speaker 1: who is able to help your child feel secure, supported, loved,
28:06
Speaker 1: and also engage in constructive teachable moments that are also
28:11
Speaker 1: part of the job description, but to do so in
28:14
Speaker 1: a way that prioritizes the quality of the relationship and
28:19
Speaker 1: helps your child developers. Hearsay from the inside out. How
28:23
Speaker 1: are they feeling? What do they expect from other humans
28:28
Speaker 1: because of their interactions with me? And that it can
28:31
Speaker 1: be easy to lose sight of that if you get
28:33
Speaker 1: frustrated or annoyed or like I told you nine times
28:37
Speaker 1: well right.
28:37
Speaker 2: Weft yeah, okay, and think about think about your as
28:42
Speaker 2: an adult, your own circle of people that you really trust.
28:46
Speaker 2: If we just look to put it in an hour
28:48
Speaker 2: everyday life in my own circle, I don't have people
28:51
Speaker 2: in my own circle who come back and mind get
28:53
Speaker 2: in my face and say I told you so.
28:56
Speaker 1: What would we do if we did have friends like that, Yeah.
29:01
Speaker 2: We probably wouldn't go to them very often with our
29:03
Speaker 2: vulnerabilities and our weaknesses, right, because nobody wants you to
29:08
Speaker 2: rub it in your face. It's just not kind, it's
29:11
Speaker 2: not respectful. And parents seem to think that they have
29:14
Speaker 2: liberties to be able to say and do anything because
29:17
Speaker 2: they are their children, they share a DNA and they
29:20
Speaker 2: have history that they can say or do anything they
29:23
Speaker 2: want to, And it's just a false belief that will
29:27
Speaker 2: only harm and hurt the relationship. What happened to being respectful?
29:31
Speaker 2: The one thing I will tell you I always wanted
29:33
Speaker 2: my children to know that I respected them, because in
29:36
Speaker 2: respecting them, they would then develop the self respect, so
29:40
Speaker 2: then they would know not to be put in a
29:42
Speaker 2: position to allow themselves to be in relationships where they
29:45
Speaker 2: weren't respected.
29:48
Speaker 1: How important is that if you take an abusive, controlling
29:52
Speaker 1: stance with your child, then you are priming them to
29:57
Speaker 1: create that kind of relationship with a partner and an adult hood.
30:00
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so much of what we do. But
30:03
Speaker 2: this is why I think parents panic in young adulthood
30:06
Speaker 2: and in adulthood with their kids is because I think
30:10
Speaker 2: they realize there was a lot of things that maybe
30:12
Speaker 2: they didn't spend the time developing, and now they panic like,
30:15
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I got to shove it all in
30:16
Speaker 2: there now, and those kids aren't ready to hear that.
30:19
Speaker 2: They're not ready to hear it. And I tell people
30:21
Speaker 2: that parents need to learn to shut their lips and
30:25
Speaker 2: don't give advice unless it's asked for, because it's not
30:29
Speaker 2: going to be heard when we're giving it so freely.
30:31
Speaker 2: The time to have given advice was when they were home,
30:34
Speaker 2: but not now. Now It's not the time.
30:37
Speaker 1: Okay, So you're saying what I think I'm hearing you
30:40
Speaker 1: say is that when parents are sometimes not being intentional
30:45
Speaker 1: around how am I preparing my child to be successful
30:49
Speaker 1: in adulthood? You know, we're sort of more present focused
30:52
Speaker 1: with that, which which is easy to do. But then
30:55
Speaker 1: see your kid be twenty three, thirty three, forty three,
30:58
Speaker 1: and then there's this parent energy that is maybe in
31:03
Speaker 1: their mind well intentioned, but now I need to teach
31:05
Speaker 1: my kid how to X y Z. But for an
31:08
Speaker 1: adult child that's experienced as controlling, intrusive all the things
31:14
Speaker 1: and can create separation in a relationship. So you're saying,
31:18
Speaker 1: do you get to be in that place between zero
31:20
Speaker 1: through eighteen?
31:21
Speaker 2: And then it's sort of over. You need to It's
31:24
Speaker 2: over black, right, And you know, as parents, we want
31:27
Speaker 2: to stay in their lives, but we need to stay
31:29
Speaker 2: in their lives as an ally, as a support, as
31:31
Speaker 2: a resource. We don't get to stand realize because we're
31:34
Speaker 2: in control, or because we have power, or because we're
31:38
Speaker 2: going to manipulate with money, or we're going to be
31:41
Speaker 2: a rescue them from every problem they have. We need
31:43
Speaker 2: to recognize our job is to be the healthiest version
31:47
Speaker 2: of ourselves, so we can model for them what healthy
31:49
Speaker 2: adulthood looks like. But we can also be that safe
31:53
Speaker 2: refuge for them when their life does fall apart, so
31:57
Speaker 2: they have a place to go to. You know, the
31:59
Speaker 2: Pew research came out in twenty three with a study
32:02
Speaker 2: on adult children and it said fifty three percent of
32:05
Speaker 2: adult children do not communicate to their parent if they
32:09
Speaker 2: have a mental health problem.
32:11
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm not familiar with that study, and so
32:15
Speaker 1: very unfortunate.
32:16
Speaker 2: It's incredibly frightening to me because if you can't talk
32:19
Speaker 2: to your parents about your mental health, then where do
32:23
Speaker 2: you go? Who do you talk to? That's take me talk?
32:26
Speaker 1: Yeah, they listen to the Love, Happiness and Success podcast.
32:29
Speaker 2: That's where they go. You know what I mean. I've
32:31
Speaker 2: started to say they're not turning to the people who
32:34
Speaker 2: have spent their lives with them. I know, and that's
32:37
Speaker 2: the part that breaks marriage. I mean, just when I
32:39
Speaker 2: think about it as a mom, I have a forty
32:40
Speaker 2: one year old and a forty year old, And if
32:43
Speaker 2: I thought my children wouldn't tell me the painful places
32:48
Speaker 2: of their lives, I would be heartbroken. Yeah, that would
32:51
Speaker 2: make me really sad because I would go, what did
32:54
Speaker 2: I do that would prohibit them from trusting me with
32:57
Speaker 2: hard things? That would just make me so sad because
33:00
Speaker 2: I would have to look at that. And you know,
33:02
Speaker 2: I tell a story about a friend of my daughter.
33:04
Speaker 2: He had come to visit her in her junior year.
33:07
Speaker 2: It was summer and they were he stopped by driving
33:10
Speaker 2: through town and so we were having lunch and he said,
33:13
Speaker 2: she left the room, my daughter, Tiffany. And he said
33:15
Speaker 2: to me, he said, missus Hickham, did you know that
33:18
Speaker 2: Tiffany is the only friend that I have who's the
33:20
Speaker 2: same in front of her parents as she is behind
33:22
Speaker 2: her back. And I said, no, Jason, I didn't know that.
33:26
Speaker 2: I said, what about you? I said, are you the same?
33:30
Speaker 2: And he said, oh no, I'm not. He says, I don't.
33:33
Speaker 2: I'm not the same at all. And I said, can
33:35
Speaker 2: you help me understand? And he said, well, I learned
33:38
Speaker 2: a long time ago what my parents expected me. And
33:40
Speaker 2: he said, if I don't live up to that expectation,
33:43
Speaker 2: he said, my mom cries and my dad gets mad.
33:45
Speaker 2: So when I go home, I just become who they
33:48
Speaker 2: want me to be, and then when I walk out
33:49
Speaker 2: the door, I go back to being myself. Well, and
33:53
Speaker 2: he said, that's how all my friends are, but Tiffany's
33:55
Speaker 2: the only one who's not like that, and it broke
34:00
Speaker 2: my heart. It broke my heart. And yeah, paying attention
34:05
Speaker 2: to what he was saying and asking questions, I just
34:09
Speaker 2: really started saying, hey, can you just really level with
34:11
Speaker 2: me here or whatever? And he was right. I mean,
34:15
Speaker 2: they're going, oh, you know, there's a definitely I know
34:18
Speaker 2: what they can handle, I know what they can't, So
34:19
Speaker 2: I just let them handle what I know they can handle. Now,
34:23
Speaker 2: that to me is parenting gone astray. Yeah, that's not
34:28
Speaker 2: helpful in a family unit to have to keep secrets,
34:31
Speaker 2: to have to be fearful of being rejected, of not
34:34
Speaker 2: being enough, of not being accepted for regardless of what
34:38
Speaker 2: you've done. And that's one of the reasons why I
34:40
Speaker 2: do what I do.
34:42
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for the work that you're doing.
34:44
Speaker 1: It's so important, and I think it's it's an underserved relationship,
34:51
Speaker 1: you know it is. So I would love Catherine too
34:56
Speaker 1: to get your perspective on two things. And if it's okay,
34:59
Speaker 1: let's get like on one side of the table and
35:01
Speaker 1: then the other side of the table. But the first
35:04
Speaker 1: side of the table, you know, we have a friend
35:06
Speaker 1: here with us right now who's tuning in because that's
35:10
Speaker 1: the experience that they're having. They feel very distant from
35:15
Speaker 1: their parents. They are considering a cut off, and in
35:19
Speaker 1: this imaginary scenario, not only will their parents become disregulated
35:24
Speaker 1: or fall apart or get all controlling, be intrusive, but
35:28
Speaker 1: can sometimes get ugly, still have a lot of anger, hostility, critical,
35:34
Speaker 1: you know, expressions, and it just generally feels unsafe for
35:38
Speaker 1: this person to be around their family and they're considering like.
35:43
Speaker 2: Not doing that anymore.
35:45
Speaker 1: Do you have any suggestions or ideas for what someone
35:52
Speaker 1: you know staring down this barrel might try to broach
35:56
Speaker 1: a courageous conversation or what what would you advise an
36:02
Speaker 1: adult child to do.
36:05
Speaker 2: I it's unfortunate, right the situation you just described, so
36:09
Speaker 2: I think so commonate by the way they know, they
36:12
Speaker 2: know their parents probably better than anybody's going to know
36:14
Speaker 2: their parents. And my hunch is you have about maybe
36:18
Speaker 2: three options. One would be to write a letter and
36:22
Speaker 2: just saying I love you, I want a relationship with you,
36:26
Speaker 2: because the very first thing that you're going to do
36:28
Speaker 2: is that you're going to let them know you're not
36:30
Speaker 2: It's not your heart's desire to cut them off and
36:33
Speaker 2: to cope burn the bridge behind that here's what you want.
36:37
Speaker 2: But then after that you have to be able to say,
36:39
Speaker 2: but here's what I need. And history has said this
36:44
Speaker 2: is a struggle for our relationship and for us to
36:47
Speaker 2: move forward. I need to know what guardrails do we
36:51
Speaker 2: need to put into place where we can both walk
36:54
Speaker 2: away feeling safe in the relationship. And what you're doing,
36:57
Speaker 2: you're not blaming, but you're acknowledging there's a and you're
37:00
Speaker 2: acknowledging that it can no longer go on the way
37:03
Speaker 2: it's going on. And I think you can say, you know,
37:05
Speaker 2: we you know, maybe we could go see a counselor together,
37:09
Speaker 2: maybe we could have a third party be with us
37:12
Speaker 2: during you know, if that would help pull us accountable
37:15
Speaker 2: for how we speak to each other. Or I'm open
37:18
Speaker 2: to your suggestions on what you think would work. So
37:21
Speaker 2: you're you're not telling them what to do, but you're
37:24
Speaker 2: inviting them to give options. But you're but what you're
37:27
Speaker 2: doing is you're demonstrating an effort and an energy to
37:31
Speaker 2: want there to be a working relationship. But you're also
37:34
Speaker 2: not saying I'm going to give you a blank check
37:36
Speaker 2: for it to be any way that you want to
37:38
Speaker 2: because that doesn't work with me anymore. I can't do
37:40
Speaker 2: that for my own self safety, for my own sense
37:44
Speaker 2: of growth, my own work. I can't just get into
37:48
Speaker 2: chaos in our relationship anymore. And we're in a dance
37:52
Speaker 2: that is that where we keep stepping on each other's
37:54
Speaker 2: toes and no one's happy about it. Yeah, And so
37:58
Speaker 2: it's a if we can be nice somehow we present it,
38:01
Speaker 2: but have very clear options on what they can do.
38:04
Speaker 2: In the response, it says there's effort, it says that
38:08
Speaker 2: there's love, it says I'm looking for ways for us
38:12
Speaker 2: to make this work. Yeah.
38:13
Speaker 1: And I love the letter idea as well, because I
38:17
Speaker 1: think in the moment, when you try to say that
38:18
Speaker 1: stuff out loud, people.
38:20
Speaker 2: Can get very reactive.
38:21
Speaker 1: And want to fight with you about you know why
38:23
Speaker 1: I'm writing, And so to give a letter that is real, clear,
38:28
Speaker 1: good intentions, but here's also what I'm not participating in anymore,
38:31
Speaker 1: and ideas for solutions.
38:33
Speaker 2: I love that it's very concrete and at least one
38:36
Speaker 2: of the reasons I like a letter over a text
38:38
Speaker 2: is that a text is as dangerous because they can
38:42
Speaker 2: turn around in a reactive moment and shoot something off
38:46
Speaker 2: while they're in their reactive state. Yes, a letter is
38:50
Speaker 2: one way, and they can sit, they can read it
38:53
Speaker 2: over again and again and again, and then maybe when
38:55
Speaker 2: they've calmed down, they've had a chance then to respond
39:00
Speaker 2: out of react. Right, So there are times I think
39:03
Speaker 2: a letter is preferable over a text or an email
39:08
Speaker 2: simply by virtue of the fact that we are too
39:11
Speaker 2: triggered happy to react and sometimes we need to be
39:16
Speaker 2: able to have the wisdom to say, I need to
39:18
Speaker 2: really think this through before I make a response.
39:22
Speaker 1: Yes, so slowing down the communication through analog technology is
39:28
Speaker 1: a fantastic strategy. Okay, yeah, if you still have stamps
39:34
Speaker 1: in your house, right, Okay?
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42:18
Speaker 2: There was another idea you had. I think if there
42:25
Speaker 2: is a if there's an opportunity for there to say, hey, look,
42:30
Speaker 2: I'm willing to meet with you in a sense of
42:34
Speaker 2: let's talk about and you could do this in a tection,
42:36
Speaker 2: just say what if we're going to get together, what
42:40
Speaker 2: do you want the focus to be? Ask the question
42:43
Speaker 2: like what you know? Are we going to go do
42:45
Speaker 2: an activity? Is it for dinner? Because you don't want
42:48
Speaker 2: to be blindsided and then there's just be this big
42:50
Speaker 2: deal that you didn't know anything about. You want there
42:53
Speaker 2: to be an agenda of some kind when you're not
42:55
Speaker 2: feeling safe because you don't and you may want other
42:59
Speaker 2: people there. You may not want to quote. You may
43:01
Speaker 2: have this thing is I will be there, but I
43:04
Speaker 2: need other people to be there with us, and you know.
43:07
Speaker 1: Because your parents will be a.
43:09
Speaker 3: Better behave right.
43:11
Speaker 2: That's witnesses, Yeah, yeah, have some witnesses. So that way
43:14
Speaker 2: it's not just you versus them, or you're feeling overwhelmed.
43:18
Speaker 2: But sometimes right now you can just say, Mom, I'm
43:20
Speaker 2: in a really vulnerable place, or Dad, I'm in a
43:21
Speaker 2: really vulnerable place right now, and I need to not
43:25
Speaker 2: be in conflict with anybody, and so I'm not at
43:28
Speaker 2: a place where I'm willing to engage with all the
43:31
Speaker 2: issues that I think that sometimes surface with us. So
43:35
Speaker 2: I still want to see you, you know, so we
43:37
Speaker 2: can get together for the holidays, but I need there
43:39
Speaker 2: to be limitations on what we can address and what
43:41
Speaker 2: we can't address. And you don't stay all day, you don't,
43:44
Speaker 2: you know, you go for several hours, you know, you
43:47
Speaker 2: you take care of yourself.
43:48
Speaker 1: To the frost day in their house, right, yeah, right,
43:51
Speaker 1: you just really has really clear boundaries, and you know,
43:55
Speaker 1: and I'm going to just be very direct.
43:58
Speaker 2: You know, some parents have their own mental healthy shoes,
44:00
Speaker 2: and some of them aren't going to get fixed. And
44:04
Speaker 2: so we have to quote recognize, if you're dealing with
44:07
Speaker 2: a parent who's a borderline personality disorder or has a biploy,
44:10
Speaker 2: you have to have very severe boundaries and you better
44:13
Speaker 2: be willing to die on the hill to back them up,
44:15
Speaker 2: because that's when you will get the best at them
44:18
Speaker 2: if they understand you're not just saying it to hear
44:20
Speaker 2: yourself say it, you mean business and you will carry
44:23
Speaker 2: out whatever you've said. So the adult chip has to
44:26
Speaker 2: be safe. They have to know what makes them safe,
44:29
Speaker 2: and they have to know what their limits are in
44:30
Speaker 2: the moment. And sometimes they have more bandwidth than others.
44:33
Speaker 2: So it just depends on them knowing themselves. They need
44:37
Speaker 2: to keep working in therapy to have that self awareness
44:39
Speaker 2: so they know where of my limits, what are my needs,
44:42
Speaker 2: and how do I communicate them? And I think a
44:44
Speaker 2: lot of times we expect them to know them, but
44:47
Speaker 2: don't count on your parents knowing them. That's just, oh gosh, no,
44:50
Speaker 2: that's not healthy. But a lot of times people do
44:52
Speaker 2: and then they get their feelings hurt because well, they
44:54
Speaker 2: should know me. Well you know what I do. Tell parents,
44:58
Speaker 2: you have a responsibility to have four pillars in your
45:01
Speaker 2: relationship with adult children. You have a responsibility to be
45:04
Speaker 2: unconditionally accepting of them. That doesn't mean you agree with
45:07
Speaker 2: all their decisions, but love is bigger than issues and
45:10
Speaker 2: you have to love them in spite of the choices
45:13
Speaker 2: that they make. Secondly, you have to know them, and
45:16
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you know the kid that raised and
45:18
Speaker 2: you raise in your home, but you stay curious about
45:20
Speaker 2: who the person is now, and you really want to
45:23
Speaker 2: recognize they're evolving, their unfolding, their changing. The third is
45:28
Speaker 2: that you want them to really know that they're loved unconditionally.
45:32
Speaker 2: And there's a difference between acceptance and being loved unconditionally.
45:35
Speaker 2: And then the fourth one just let me think about it.
45:38
Speaker 2: I was talking so fast, of course, give me a minute. Acceptance, acceptance,
45:45
Speaker 2: I just forgot it. Just complain it, it'll come back.
45:47
Speaker 1: But the three pillars you talked about are so important.
45:50
Speaker 1: So the unconditional acceptance, yeah, unconditional love, what you're saying
45:54
Speaker 1: is and to be respected and to be respected, to
45:57
Speaker 1: be respected, to be to be rerespected.
46:00
Speaker 2: So when a parent practices those four things, I can
46:04
Speaker 2: assure you they're going to have a much, much, much
46:06
Speaker 2: better chance of having a great relationship with your children.
46:09
Speaker 2: But if any one of those four things are missing,
46:11
Speaker 2: there's probably going to be a problem.
46:13
Speaker 1: Well, so, I mean you're starting to talk about the
46:16
Speaker 1: other side of the table. If we have somebody who's
46:18
Speaker 1: listening to this and they're like, my kids won't talk
46:21
Speaker 1: to me, and I'm heartbroken and I feel like I'm
46:23
Speaker 1: trying to reach out, they won't.
46:25
Speaker 2: Text me back.
46:26
Speaker 1: Like where do they even start if a child has
46:30
Speaker 1: decided that they're not engaging, Like how could a parent
46:35
Speaker 1: start to show them that they can now practice the
46:38
Speaker 1: four pillars that you've described, Or where does it even start?
46:43
Speaker 1: Or does the parent need to do other work before then?
46:46
Speaker 2: I even think there's a little bit before that. I
46:48
Speaker 2: think one of the things I encourage parents to start
46:50
Speaker 2: with is the issue of expectations, because I think expectations
46:53
Speaker 2: are the dirty word in parenting adult children tell me more,
46:57
Speaker 2: and I because I think we have them from the
46:59
Speaker 2: moment we find out we're going to be a parent,
47:02
Speaker 2: And I think the older the child gets, the more
47:04
Speaker 2: we formulate very defined expectations for that particular child. And
47:08
Speaker 2: when that begins to happen, we put these expectations on
47:12
Speaker 2: these kids that may have a lot to do with
47:15
Speaker 2: the parents' unmet needs or unfulfilled expectations that you get
47:19
Speaker 2: passed on to these children that they didn't sign up for,
47:22
Speaker 2: but feel the weight and burden of having to fulfill
47:25
Speaker 2: to keep their parents happy or proud or whatever. And
47:29
Speaker 2: so I will say to parents, I want you to
47:32
Speaker 2: sit down, and I want you to make a list
47:33
Speaker 2: of every expectation that you've ever had of the skin,
47:36
Speaker 2: and I want you to go back and circle which
47:37
Speaker 2: of these are the most important to you that you
47:39
Speaker 2: could get triggered if that expectation isn't met. And then
47:43
Speaker 2: I want you to realize, whatever expectations those are, you
47:47
Speaker 2: need to grieve them because they're not your kid's expectations.
47:52
Speaker 2: These are your expectations that they're not responsible for fulfilling.
47:56
Speaker 2: That's your job, that's not their job, and you need
47:59
Speaker 2: to re least them of all this weight that they're
48:02
Speaker 2: carrying around. Because now we've put in a position I
48:05
Speaker 2: either have to make my mom and dad happy or
48:07
Speaker 2: I get to make myself happy. That's a really bad
48:10
Speaker 2: place to be in if you're an adult child.
48:12
Speaker 1: I could see those parents, some of them having a
48:15
Speaker 1: very hard time with that, because you know, it's a
48:17
Speaker 1: lifetime of investment in all these ideas, and the narrative is,
48:22
Speaker 1: well shouldn't the X, Y Z, And that goes so deep.
48:27
Speaker 1: I would imagine from your position you might have to
48:30
Speaker 1: work pretty hard for a long time to get that
48:32
Speaker 1: to move.
48:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, especially though if they understand the cost to
48:36
Speaker 2: the adult child they pull away. Their confidence is impacted,
48:41
Speaker 2: they feel un disrespected, they feel as if they're not enough.
48:46
Speaker 2: If all my expectations create children who don't believe in themselves,
48:50
Speaker 2: who can't function, who can't have resiliency because they don't
48:55
Speaker 2: think I believe in them to have their own lives
48:58
Speaker 2: versus having the life that I wanted for them, you
49:00
Speaker 2: know what, the fact that we have a definition of
49:04
Speaker 2: their lives, that's that's not our children's falt. Yeah, that's
49:08
Speaker 2: just not it, you know. And I'm not working. It's
49:10
Speaker 2: not working. That's the whole thing, right, So I hear
49:12
Speaker 2: this quick, this quick experience. I was at a wedding
49:15
Speaker 2: with my family and it was my son's one of
49:18
Speaker 2: his best friends, and it came time from the mother
49:21
Speaker 2: son dance and they picked the song that I would
49:24
Speaker 2: have picked for me and Taylor, and I begin to
49:26
Speaker 2: cry and I'm like, what is that about? And I
49:31
Speaker 2: realized I knew in that moment that would never be
49:33
Speaker 2: me and Taylor. We would never have a mother son dance.
49:36
Speaker 2: And because my son dated women internationally and he would
49:41
Speaker 2: probably marry somebody who has different traditions for weddings than
49:46
Speaker 2: what I had been a part of my entire life,
49:49
Speaker 2: and all the things that I had imagined that probably
49:52
Speaker 2: wouldn't be his experience because that's not who he was, right,
49:56
Speaker 2: And so in that moment, I gave myself permission to
49:59
Speaker 2: grief that dream, that expectation, to release him from any
50:04
Speaker 2: thought that he had to do that to make me happy,
50:08
Speaker 2: and for him to have my wedding for him, and
50:11
Speaker 2: I just remember going, this isn't mine, it's his. I
50:15
Speaker 2: need to let him have his. Fast forward four years later,
50:20
Speaker 2: I get a call. He's living in Singapore and he says, Mom,
50:23
Speaker 2: I'm getting married in such days. Would you come? And
50:27
Speaker 2: so of course I get on the plane. I go.
50:29
Speaker 2: No American tradition in this wedding of any way, shape
50:32
Speaker 2: or form. But I had an amazing week. I got
50:35
Speaker 2: to be with his bride or family, the traditions, all
50:38
Speaker 2: the new experiences. I had a couple of days with
50:41
Speaker 2: just him, and I was like, what a gift that
50:44
Speaker 2: I had. But I didn't bring any of the baggage
50:47
Speaker 2: of what didn't happen into the moment, so I could
50:51
Speaker 2: be fully present and accounted for all the good that did. Yeah,
50:54
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, And so we expectations really
50:59
Speaker 2: damage possibilities of joy and connection. And I just really
51:05
Speaker 2: learned in that moment I needed to let go on
51:07
Speaker 2: both of my kids those things and just walk alongside
51:11
Speaker 2: them while they embrace life. And I don't just It's
51:15
Speaker 2: been the best, one of the best decisions I've ever made.
51:17
Speaker 1: Oh no, that's so good and and good I think
51:20
Speaker 1: for every parent, or if you ever want to be
51:22
Speaker 1: a parent, right, I mean, just to think about let
51:25
Speaker 1: it go. But it is they are their own humans,
51:29
Speaker 1: living their own lives, and you get to be happy
51:32
Speaker 1: to be included to whatever degree they want you there
51:35
Speaker 1: and have a nice time.
51:36
Speaker 2: And that's yeah, that's so good.
51:39
Speaker 1: Okay, Are are there any other things that you might
51:43
Speaker 1: suggest to recommend? And also, Catherine, you have a whole
51:47
Speaker 1: book about this, and we'll give you more opportunities to
51:50
Speaker 1: talk about this. You're doing online webinars, and so I
51:52
Speaker 1: also just want to say that in this podcast we
51:54
Speaker 1: are scratching the surface. But is there anything that a
51:59
Speaker 1: parent can do, after hopefully doing their own work, to
52:06
Speaker 1: extend in alive branch reopen lines of communication, something that
52:11
Speaker 1: might make their adult children receptive to getting back in
52:17
Speaker 1: the ring, just to see if it might be different
52:20
Speaker 1: this time. How do we even get that opportunity if
52:23
Speaker 1: the relationship has been ruptured.
52:25
Speaker 2: Well, here's why I tell parents. I know you're anxious
52:28
Speaker 2: to jump into that, but you need to do some
52:31
Speaker 2: work before you do it. Because if you're not ready
52:34
Speaker 2: to hear some hard things, if you're going to be defensive,
52:38
Speaker 2: if you're going to not own your part of the problem,
52:42
Speaker 2: then you're not ready to have that conversation. Yeah, don't
52:44
Speaker 2: write it, don't do it, because it's only going to
52:46
Speaker 2: make it worse. I've actually developed a framework called the
52:50
Speaker 2: parent method, and its parent is pause, which means be
52:54
Speaker 2: responsive instead of reactive. A is about acceptance. R is
52:59
Speaker 2: about reading these expectations, control fears and dreams. E is
53:03
Speaker 2: engaged how do I learn to engage? Nurture is about
53:07
Speaker 2: really learning what it means to have self awareness so
53:10
Speaker 2: you can really emotionally connect to your child. And that
53:13
Speaker 2: TEA is about trust. So it's the word parents, right,
53:17
Speaker 2: And I would ask them, if they were to say,
53:19
Speaker 2: I would ask them to look and say, which of
53:21
Speaker 2: these places do you need to begin to really do
53:24
Speaker 2: some hard work in order to quote, get really honest
53:28
Speaker 2: with yourself about what has worked well in the past,
53:31
Speaker 2: and where are you struggling and what are your fears?
53:34
Speaker 2: And if a parent can get really honest about what
53:36
Speaker 2: their fears are, they can then be able to send
53:40
Speaker 2: a letter or an email that says, Look, I just
53:43
Speaker 2: want you to know. I know we've been in a
53:46
Speaker 2: tough place for a while, but I'm working on me
53:50
Speaker 2: and I am really working on what I need to
53:55
Speaker 2: do in order to be a healthier version of me.
53:57
Speaker 2: And would you mind if I send you some questions
54:00
Speaker 2: that I need you to be really honest about. And
54:03
Speaker 2: you know, because I really have some blind spots and
54:06
Speaker 2: I want to get your perspective on them. If I
54:09
Speaker 2: send you some questions, would you be willing to fill
54:11
Speaker 2: those out for me so I have some additional information
54:15
Speaker 2: and feedback that would help me work on myself. Now
54:20
Speaker 2: that child may choose to do it. They child may
54:22
Speaker 2: choose not to do it, But what it's doing is
54:25
Speaker 2: that it's saying to that child, I'm not blaming you.
54:30
Speaker 2: I'm open to growing and learning. I'm open to owning
54:33
Speaker 2: my part. And I really want to hear how I've
54:37
Speaker 2: hurt you or what what I've missed. And I think
54:40
Speaker 2: when people can see that you're sincere, and they'll know
54:44
Speaker 2: if you're telling the truth, they know if you really
54:46
Speaker 2: mean it right, because they know you really well. If
54:48
Speaker 2: they see that you're genuinely sincere, I'm telling you, it
54:51
Speaker 2: starts to melt the wall.
54:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, well, because there's so much pain there. You know,
54:57
Speaker 1: I've never talked to an adult child who hasn't been
55:01
Speaker 1: just so torn up inside and like the dream of
55:05
Speaker 1: their life is to have a parent, Like, how do
55:09
Speaker 1: you experience me? How could I do a better job
55:12
Speaker 1: of making you feel more loved and sincut our relationship?
55:15
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what everybody really wants.
55:17
Speaker 1: And so you're saying that to lead with that and
55:20
Speaker 1: say I am receptive. I really want to understand what
55:24
Speaker 1: this relationship has been like for you so that I
55:27
Speaker 1: can do a better job of making this feel good
55:29
Speaker 1: for you.
55:30
Speaker 2: That's powerful, I'm telling you. It melts the hardest of stones.
55:35
Speaker 2: Well right, So.
55:39
Speaker 1: Okay, I mean the last words, Catherine, I mean, are
55:43
Speaker 1: there things that we haven't yet talked about that you
55:45
Speaker 1: feel like are important to represent or do you think
55:47
Speaker 1: we did a good job?
55:49
Speaker 2: And I feel like we covered a lot of territory,
55:52
Speaker 2: right There is a lot of territory, right there is
55:55
Speaker 2: there's a lot of issues out there, and I think
55:59
Speaker 2: that's the problem when we get focused on the issue
56:01
Speaker 2: and not the relationship, right and oh, go ahead, And
56:05
Speaker 2: I just think if we can get parents to understand
56:08
Speaker 2: there's the issues and then there's the relationship, and the
56:11
Speaker 2: relationship is always more important than the issues. We can't
56:14
Speaker 2: let the issues get in the way of our ability
56:17
Speaker 2: to really love unconditionally. And that means I may not understand,
56:22
Speaker 2: I may not even agree, but nothing's going to stand
56:24
Speaker 2: the way of my ability to love you well even
56:27
Speaker 2: when I don't understand, and even when I don't agree.
56:31
Speaker 2: What a beautiful place to land on.
56:33
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for coming on this show
56:35
Speaker 1: today to share your wisdom and your perspective. And you know,
56:39
Speaker 1: if this is a pain point in people's lives and
56:42
Speaker 1: they want to continue working on it, above and beyond
56:46
Speaker 1: this conversation, tell us where they would connect with you,
56:49
Speaker 1: learn more about.
56:50
Speaker 2: You, your okay, your work all right, if they want
56:53
Speaker 2: to check out Parenting Adult Children Today dot com. I'm
56:56
Speaker 2: on Instagram, I'm on all the social media sides, but
57:00
Speaker 2: my book on parenting adult children is actually coming out
57:03
Speaker 2: in August and it's called It's Never too Late to
57:06
Speaker 2: Be a Great Parent. Amazing.
57:09
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Catherine Hiccum. This has been a
57:13
Speaker 1: real pleasure and a real eye opener, and I appreciate
57:16
Speaker 1: your generosity and sharing such specific recommendations about what people
57:21
Speaker 1: can do. Especially this can just feel so overwhelming and
57:24
Speaker 1: like so big, and I feel like you did such
57:27
Speaker 1: a nice job of breaking it down and tip try this.
57:30
Speaker 2: So thank you, yeah, no, thank you for having me.
57:33
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. And you take care of yourself,
57:36
Speaker 2: and thank you for this this amazing opportunity. I was
57:39
Speaker 2: looking at your website and all that you're doing and
57:41
Speaker 2: it's pretty amazing yourself. So good for you, and you're changing,
57:47
Speaker 2: So good for you.
57:49
Speaker 1: I had an unconditionally loving and accepting mother.
57:53
Speaker 2: It makes all the difference in the world. That's part
57:56
Speaker 2: of it.
57:56
Speaker 4: Yeah, you guys, that was a good conversation.
58:08
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed speaking with Catherine. And I don't know
58:11
Speaker 1: if you heard this too, but boy, she has a
58:14
Speaker 1: lot of experience and a lot of insight into this,
58:17
Speaker 1: and I think she did such a beautiful job of
58:20
Speaker 1: really showcasing what healthy functional parenting should in some ways
58:27
Speaker 1: look like throughout the lifespan in just a very agnostic
58:32
Speaker 1: kind of way, right there are all kinds of different
58:35
Speaker 1: parenting orientations that.
58:36
Speaker 3: Can fall into that.
58:38
Speaker 1: But I think the main takeaway for me was there's
58:41
Speaker 1: so much we can all do to set a strong
58:44
Speaker 1: foundation if we ourselves are parents. But also she shared
58:48
Speaker 1: so many great strategies for things that we can do
58:53
Speaker 1: as either adults if we want to try to have
58:58
Speaker 1: a more sustainable relationship with our parents without maybe you know,
59:02
Speaker 1: going nuclear and cutting people off, but also for parents
59:06
Speaker 1: of adult children if things have been feeling hard, I
59:10
Speaker 1: hope that this episode has given you some understanding as
59:14
Speaker 1: to why that might be, and also provide you with
59:17
Speaker 1: some ways of maybe opening that door and starting a
59:22
Speaker 1: conversation with your adult children. I thought that was great.
59:26
Speaker 1: I will also share that from my experience, this stuff
59:31
Speaker 1: goes deep.
59:32
Speaker 3: Oh man.
59:33
Speaker 1: I'll say that as a therapist, you know, working with
59:38
Speaker 1: clients who have sometimes experienced trauma, either relational or emotional,
59:44
Speaker 1: or actual trauma at the hands of a parent, this
59:48
Speaker 1: can be tough stuff to sort through. But even when
59:52
Speaker 1: I'm operating as a coach, and working with people who
59:55
Speaker 1: are interested in understanding who they are, where they come from,
59:59
Speaker 1: what the they want, and then what they need to
1:00:01
Speaker 1: do differently in order to create different outcomes. Our relationships
1:00:06
Speaker 1: with parents just come up over and over again, and
1:00:09
Speaker 1: so one last word of encouragement. Catherine's strategies are fantastic.
1:00:15
Speaker 1: Use them and as she alluded to, there is work
1:00:19
Speaker 1: to be done here. If you are someone who is
1:00:23
Speaker 1: trying to figure out what to do with a relationship
1:00:27
Speaker 1: with your parent, and maybe the solution is I need
1:00:30
Speaker 1: to set different boundaries or I need to have courageous conversations.
1:00:36
Speaker 1: Sometimes it can be really really helpful to have professional
1:00:40
Speaker 1: support to help you figure out what to do and
1:00:44
Speaker 1: to also have your back, right, I mean, I think
1:00:47
Speaker 1: it is typical when you do set boundaries or try
1:00:51
Speaker 1: to do things different with your parent.
1:00:53
Speaker 2: And your parent might not like that, right.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: It can be so easy to talk ourselves out of
1:00:59
Speaker 1: that and go back into those old patterns in order
1:01:02
Speaker 1: to keep the peace, or you go all the way
1:01:06
Speaker 1: into another direction where you start to feel like there's
1:01:09
Speaker 1: no other choice but to cut your parent off. And
1:01:12
Speaker 1: you know what, in some situations, maybe there's a situation
1:01:16
Speaker 1: where that is legitimately true, but in my experience there's
1:01:20
Speaker 1: a lot of like spectrum that can happen where perhaps
1:01:25
Speaker 1: you have a modified type relationship with your parent, that
1:01:29
Speaker 1: can be a great strategy, But to have a thought
1:01:32
Speaker 1: partner and someone who can help you figure out what
1:01:35
Speaker 1: to do and then support you as you take that
1:01:38
Speaker 1: action can be phenomenally helpful. So if you would like
1:01:42
Speaker 1: to do that with me or anybody at my practice,
1:01:44
Speaker 1: you have an open invitation come to growingself dot com
1:01:47
Speaker 1: scheduled to a free consultation to work with one of
1:01:50
Speaker 1: our regular network clinicians.
1:01:52
Speaker 3: Or if you are looking for lower.
1:01:54
Speaker 1: Cost services that are amazing, we do have a really unique,
1:01:59
Speaker 1: low cost coaching program that connects you with a very
1:02:03
Speaker 1: experienced therapist. I mean most of these people have been
1:02:07
Speaker 1: operating for twenty years as therapists. They have advanced degrees, doctorates,
1:02:11
Speaker 1: like they really know their stuff, but now they are
1:02:14
Speaker 1: learning how to help people through a coaching framework that
1:02:19
Speaker 1: is not as much pathology focused, but is really more
1:02:22
Speaker 1: around like what Catherine and I were talking about today,
1:02:25
Speaker 1: you know, who are you, what do you want and
1:02:27
Speaker 1: how are you going to get it? That's what we
1:02:28
Speaker 1: do in coaching and so anyway, through this training program,
1:02:32
Speaker 1: these amazing therapists are available to work with you for
1:02:35
Speaker 1: a very you know, limited boundaries, eight sessions, but at
1:02:39
Speaker 1: a deeply reduced rate like forty some bucks a session.
1:02:42
Speaker 2: It's crazy. So anyway, you.
1:02:44
Speaker 1: Can come to growing self dot com learn all about that. Additionally, frequently,
1:02:48
Speaker 1: family of origin issues like the ones that Catherine and
1:02:52
Speaker 1: I were talking about today, can also show up in
1:02:54
Speaker 1: our relationships, particularly our marriages. If your in laws are
1:03:01
Speaker 1: challenging and that is either impacting your spouse or you
1:03:06
Speaker 1: would like for you and your spouse to handle that
1:03:09
Speaker 1: differently as a couple, that can be a fantastic thing
1:03:13
Speaker 1: to talk with a relationship expert about, and that can
1:03:17
Speaker 1: show up in a lot of different ways, like what
1:03:19
Speaker 1: kind of relationship do we want to have with grandma?
1:03:22
Speaker 1: How much access should grandma have to our kids? If
1:03:25
Speaker 1: we know that Grandma tends to be kind of emotionally
1:03:29
Speaker 1: reactive and can say things that are scary. I mean,
1:03:32
Speaker 1: these are hard decisions to make, but ones that I
1:03:36
Speaker 1: think every couple does need to get into alignment around
1:03:39
Speaker 1: so that you are operating as a team, and that
1:03:42
Speaker 1: can be a wonderful use for getting involved in some
1:03:46
Speaker 1: really good marriage counseling or coaching, and we do that
1:03:48
Speaker 1: at our practice as well. And then very lastly, you
1:03:53
Speaker 1: also heard Catherine talk a lot about some of the
1:03:57
Speaker 1: challenges that parents themselves can go through, and this might
1:04:00
Speaker 1: be you as you're listening, right like, maybe as you
1:04:03
Speaker 1: heard Catherine and I talking, you had moments of recognition.
1:04:07
Speaker 1: Maybe you are still on your parenting journey and have
1:04:10
Speaker 1: kids at home and want to figure out what you
1:04:12
Speaker 1: need to do differently in order to repair any damage
1:04:16
Speaker 1: that might have been done so far and restore trust
1:04:20
Speaker 1: that will carry forward into your kid's adulthood hopefully their
1:04:24
Speaker 1: support for you. But also if you are in a
1:04:27
Speaker 1: situation where you are a parent of adult children and
1:04:31
Speaker 1: things really have gone off the rails, that is such
1:04:34
Speaker 1: a hard place to be in. There is so much
1:04:37
Speaker 1: to grieve, there is so much to reckon with, and
1:04:41
Speaker 1: as Catherine was talking about, there is a lot of
1:04:44
Speaker 1: work there to be done. And so by all means,
1:04:47
Speaker 1: check out what Catherine has to offer, read her books.
1:04:49
Speaker 2: I think she has.
1:04:50
Speaker 1: Training programs, and if you want to do some deep
1:04:54
Speaker 1: dives into this with an experienced, even more mature therapist
1:04:58
Speaker 1: who can be your suppor person as you're working through this,
1:05:02
Speaker 1: you know, we have support for you at my practice
1:05:05
Speaker 1: as well growingself dot com. And also, you know what
1:05:08
Speaker 1: it's okay to refer your parents to me and my
1:05:11
Speaker 1: group or even here's the ultimate is to do this
1:05:18
Speaker 1: type of growth work with your parent, you know. I mean,
1:05:23
Speaker 1: I think we get so focused in our culture on
1:05:25
Speaker 1: therapy between you know, for yourself individually to try to
1:05:28
Speaker 1: sort some of this out, which is great. Marriage counseling
1:05:31
Speaker 1: for you and your partner to get on the same
1:05:33
Speaker 1: page about this stuff also great, But there is also
1:05:37
Speaker 1: a type of therapy and it really it's more coaching
1:05:40
Speaker 1: aligned frequently around how can you connect with a helping
1:05:45
Speaker 1: professional who can in some ways serve as a mediator
1:05:51
Speaker 1: to help you have constructive and productive conversations between the generations.
1:05:58
Speaker 3: And sometimes that can.
1:05:59
Speaker 1: Be very important to do if there have been ruptures
1:06:04
Speaker 1: in trust and a lot of water under the bridge,
1:06:07
Speaker 1: as is frequently the case when it comes to parent
1:06:12
Speaker 1: and child relationships or parents and adult children. You know,
1:06:16
Speaker 1: it's not like there was one event. There are decades
1:06:19
Speaker 1: of history that need to be unraveled and reckoned with,
1:06:23
Speaker 1: and boy, it can be really.
1:06:26
Speaker 2: Challenging to do that without support.
1:06:29
Speaker 1: So anyway, I just wanted to make you aware of
1:06:33
Speaker 1: different types of support that are available here for you,
1:06:38
Speaker 1: many of which are available through my practice. The low
1:06:41
Speaker 1: cost coaching program that I was telling you about, that
1:06:44
Speaker 1: is really much more suitable if you want to do
1:06:48
Speaker 1: your own work and figure out how to handle situations
1:06:51
Speaker 1: with your parent. That is not marriage counseling. It is
1:06:54
Speaker 1: not the type of thing that you could really do
1:06:56
Speaker 1: with your parent. That's really something that.
1:06:59
Speaker 5: You would do with a a therapist, ideally a marriage
1:07:03
Speaker 5: and family therapist in my network. But I just wanted
1:07:06
Speaker 5: to give you an overview of the landscape and opportunities
1:07:10
Speaker 5: with my group. Now, of course, lots of opportunities to
1:07:13
Speaker 5: do this elsewhere, but I would strongly encourage you if
1:07:17
Speaker 5: you wanted to look at a therapist outside of my practice,
1:07:20
Speaker 5: perhaps when in your own community you are looking for
1:07:24
Speaker 5: a licensed marriage and family therapist an LMFT who would
1:07:29
Speaker 5: have a more systemic perspective like the one that Catherine
1:07:33
Speaker 5: was talking about, and a very deep knowledge of relational
1:07:37
Speaker 5: dynamics systemics meaning how do people impact each other and
1:07:43
Speaker 5: how do the way we show up in relationships influence
1:07:46
Speaker 5: the responses that we get from other people family dynamics,
1:07:52
Speaker 5: attachment stuff like, that's really the way to go. Or
1:07:55
Speaker 5: you could consider looking for a therapist who's done substantial
1:07:59
Speaker 5: postgraduate training and education specifically in family dynamics, as.
1:08:04
Speaker 1: Catherine obviously has. She's an LCSW and extremely qualified to
1:08:09
Speaker 1: help you. But you know, just read the label right,
1:08:12
Speaker 1: because not all therapists are the same.
1:08:15
Speaker 3: And if there is.
1:08:18
Speaker 1: Trauma capital T, if there are symptoms happening, certainly get
1:08:23
Speaker 1: yourself into clinical mental health treatment, which is considered medically necessary.
1:08:28
Speaker 1: That's a type of work that you can use insurance for.
1:08:31
Speaker 1: But somebody is going to be the identified patient and
1:08:35
Speaker 1: the work is going to be centered on symptom reduction,
1:08:38
Speaker 1: which is not always the same thing as relational improvement.
1:08:42
Speaker 1: So just know that there can be complexities when it
1:08:46
Speaker 1: comes to getting the right type of help. I have
1:08:49
Speaker 1: all kinds of podcasts in my feed if you want
1:08:51
Speaker 1: to check out any of that information. But I just
1:08:53
Speaker 1: want you to make informed choices about who you're getting
1:08:56
Speaker 1: involved with, because you know, the last thing that you
1:08:59
Speaker 1: need is for somebody to pathologize you or your parent,
1:09:03
Speaker 1: where that's really not what is true, right, And it's
1:09:07
Speaker 1: also not helpful sometimes when we pathologize people. What is
1:09:10
Speaker 1: more helpful is when we can understand what have you
1:09:14
Speaker 1: guys been doing with each other that has been getting
1:09:17
Speaker 1: in the way of your ability to have.
1:09:19
Speaker 2: Healthy, constructive relationships.
1:09:22
Speaker 3: How are both of.
1:09:23
Speaker 1: You co creating whatever you're doing right now, and what
1:09:27
Speaker 1: could both of you, or perhaps either of you do
1:09:31
Speaker 1: to get out of that old dynamic and start doing
1:09:34
Speaker 1: something differently. It might be helping both of you understand
1:09:38
Speaker 1: different ways of relating to each other in a more authentic,
1:09:42
Speaker 1: trustworthy way. And it may be as simple as setting
1:09:47
Speaker 1: different types of boundaries, like Mom, when you start talking
1:09:51
Speaker 1: to me that way, I can't stay on the phone
1:09:53
Speaker 1: with you, so I'm going to go. I'll call you
1:09:56
Speaker 1: next week on Sunday as usual, and we'll try again.
1:09:59
Speaker 1: Could be as simple as that, but it protects you
1:10:02
Speaker 1: and it also starts to create a different dynamic between
1:10:06
Speaker 1: you and your parent, especially if they have a hard
1:10:08
Speaker 1: time taking responsibility, which, as you heard Catherine and I
1:10:12
Speaker 1: talk about today, is vitally important for there to be change.
1:10:16
Speaker 1: And just remember you can always create change in a
1:10:20
Speaker 1: relationship unilaterally. What you do, how you show up always
1:10:26
Speaker 1: changes the impact that you have in your relationships, so
1:10:30
Speaker 1: you do have more power than you think. All right,
1:10:34
Speaker 1: my friend, that is all for today. Thank you for
1:10:36
Speaker 1: spending this time with me today. I hope this conversation
1:10:38
Speaker 1: was helpful for you, and certainly think about who else
1:10:42
Speaker 1: in your life is having a hard time with their
1:10:44
Speaker 1: parents or having a hard time maybe with their adult children.
1:10:48
Speaker 1: Send this along to them and together we will spread
1:10:51
Speaker 1: the light. Okay, see you next time.