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With the offseason about to pick up, who stays and who goes? · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: They'll probably be pushing towards one of those Winter Meetings
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: types deals where if they you know, kind of get
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: what they want and get the big press conference at
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Winter Meetings.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: Welcome into Northside Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. Were your Cubs
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: beat writers for The Athletic Patrick. A crazy Halloween for
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: the Cubs as they hire a third base coach, The
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: exciting start to a frenzied off season. No, really, you know,
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Craig Council is starting to shape his staff. We've we've
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: talked about this a bit, how it was kind of
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: a rushed process. I know he liked to take his time.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: He's a he's a methodical person when it comes to
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: these things, and and did try and take his time
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: last year, but it wasn't an ideal, ideal timing for
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: him to really look at every candidate. And this time around, he's, uh,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: he's taken someone from Milwaukee. I don't believe their new
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: third base coach, Quinton Berry was ever actually a coach
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: under Craig Council. Am I remembering that correctly?
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: He was actually last year was his He was just
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: in the minor leagues until last year.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Is that accurate?
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: No?
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: No, he was, he was. He was a coach.
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: Okay, he was.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: He was what prior to that, he was a minor
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: league coordinator with the Brewers and they got promoted to
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: the big league staff, and so he's had like four
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: years of major league coaching experience on it.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Okay, really good team, Okay, Okay, I don't know why I.
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: Think for reading our story, that's why. What did I say?
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Maybe I forgot what year it was on October? Oh okay,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: that's what I read wrong. Uh yeah, okay, okay, uh yeah,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: good work here.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Taking it off well.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: But what I do know is that Barry is exceptional
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: when it comes to his coaching for base running, and
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: that is an area where you know, the advanced stats
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: actually liked the Cubs on base running, but.
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: They need the Cubs.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the coaching staff disagreed, the front office disagrees. When
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: it comes to the base running metric. On fangrafs, the
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Cubs were fifth, but you know who was far and
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: away first was the Milwaukee Brewers. They were the number
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: one team in base running according to this stat I
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: think where the Cubs probably get a lot of bonus
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: points is because they were good at base stealing, ye
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: base running. There were a lot of mistakes and it
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: was something the coaches noticed, it was something great Council noticed,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: and it's something the front office wanted to wanted to address,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: and I think Barry is the first step in that,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: no doubt.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And it was funny tweeting out our story and seeing
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: just some of the anger. Well, I guess there's always
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: anger on Twitter, but just the rage that is still
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: out there towards Craig Council's decision to leave Milwaukee.
• 3:19
  Speaker 4: I think it's a good hire.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good opportunity for Barry as well,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: someone who presumably has designs on maybe bigger roles in baseball,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: like wouldn't rule out.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: Being on a potential manager track. I mean, this is
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: someone who.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: Played for Tony Gwyn at San Diego State, who carved
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: out a major league playing career, put himself on a
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: very fast track on the coaching side, and look, this
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: is the guy who's trusted by teams who wanted to
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: win the World Series. He was on this sort of
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: cycle of minor league deals where he'd hopped from one
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: team to another in.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: Case they had a Dave Roberts moment.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Guy who could pinch run and steal a base, and
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: that takes a lot of nerve, a lot of instincts
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: as well as some technical skills that you know, he
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: can impart to the Cubs and nice sounding board for
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Counsel and the guy who played very recently two and
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: has gotten a lot of hands on experience for a
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: team that look, we've we've seen it for years now,
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: that does the little things really well and frustrated the
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Cubs to no end.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, my understanding is that Council thinks very highly of him.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: You know, my brain thought he was in the minor
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: league for some reason.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: I did, I have.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: You're just binging.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: But I I remember last offseason having some people suggest
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: him as a potential bench coach. I couldn't confirm whether
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: he was ever interviewed or not, but uh that those
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: those suggestions came because people were like, Counsel's a fan,
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Council likes the way he works. Council had a lot
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: of praise for Ryan Flaherty as bench coach as well.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: So I mean these like I you have to appreciate
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: that he's.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Listen.
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Coaching only can impact the game so much, Right, It's
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: it's about the players.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: In the end, right.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: I like to think, like when people want to point
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: to the hitting coach, Oh, no, what's wrong with their offense?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Fire the hitting coach, I like to point to the
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: players and say, like that that's the problem. Okay, Like,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: very rarely is it the hitting coach's fault. Very rarely
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: is it the coach's fault. But when you have impact coaches,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: it's it's one of those you know, small things that
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: can go unnoticed. That's that can be the difference in
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: in a winner or loss. I mean, we don't need
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: to go much further than looking at the past five
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: the last five games of baseball that that were just played.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Those stats are jarring. Uh when when you look at
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: what happened in the World Series and the stats you'd
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: normally look at, right, just like offense, uh, pitch e RA,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: batting average, RBI whatever, like all those things the Yankees
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: did better. You know what, they were terrible at base
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: running and defense.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: The Cubs need to the Cubs have a solid defense
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: and it probably can get tightened up in spots, but
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: very you know, very very good defense, above average defense.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: If they can, if berries impactful in this area. I
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: think that's important. And I think you know, Council recognizes
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: that he's looking for any advantage you can find. Uh,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: And you know, maybe that's the difference in adding a
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: winner to over the course of one hundred and sixty
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: two games. I don't want to put it all on
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: a coach, but you have the right people in place,
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: you can you can you.
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Know, get an edge here or there.
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: I think that's what when when we're talking about how
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: like the marginal difference, like what did we talk about
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: so much during the season, Like they have no margin
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: for air or they can't make the mistakes, they can't
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: do these things that they're not good enough, right and
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: and maybe maybe they like ideally they get to a
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: point where you're not playing within the margins like that,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: and that's for an extra win or two.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: But this helps, right in theory, there's no help them.
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he'll be a problem. Like this is a perfectly
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: fine conversation leading into the GM meetings. If we're like
• 7:59
  Speaker 4: we out.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: After the winter meeting, it's like, well, you know, they
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: said that couldn't, which kind of was last winter, right,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: and so well he got counseled and no other new players.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: But no, I think that's a good thought to kind
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: of wrap up this segment and look ahead to the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: dm DM meetings and sort of a who stays in
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: who goes a portion of the offseason.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: All right, Patrick, let's take a little look at the
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Cubs roster. Uh, the coaches, like we said, aren't can't
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: be the biggest difference maker is on the team. It's
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: about the players and and yes, free agency trades all
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: that stuff. Listen though, that's that's got to be where
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: the differences are made, right, Like, that's where the fans
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: care most about. That's where frankly, you and I probably
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: care most about. Like it's the most interesting thing that
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: can happen this offseason.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: But we were we're.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Working on a piece for next week that'll kind of
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: set up the off season and one of the one
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: of the topics is the arbitration non tender decisions. And listen,
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: this stuff is like it can become minutia at a
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: certain point. I think it's kind of fascinating because there
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: are some interesting minimum names that they have decisions on.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: I mean the list is what like fifteen players deep
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: about but some of them are obvious, Like, you know,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: are they gonna tender Colton Brewer? Probably not, right, Like,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I don't think that's a real hard decision. Are they
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: gonna tender Justin Steel? Yeah, yeah, they're gonna tender Justin Steel.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: There's obvious ones, but I think there are some interesting ones.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: I mean that there's this middle tier of like Wisdom Talkman,
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: Edward al Zalai, Nick Madrigal, what do you do with
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: Julian Merriweather? Is that worth a one point three million
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: dollar risks? This is the estimation I believe from MLB
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: trade rumors of their price, right. I think those names
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: that I mentioned are kind of interesting, Like, I I'm
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: curious what you think, Like, are there any obvious names
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: that I just mentioned there that stand out to you
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: that you're like, yeah, that that guy's being tendered I
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: don't know why you're debating him or I think that
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: they have a decision to make there.
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you on that sort of middle tier.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: And if you break it out into position players like
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Christian Bethncourt did a nice job. But if it's two
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: point five million and you need to upgrade at catching,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: and you're keeping miguel O Maaya.
• 10:46
  Speaker 4: I don't know if they bring him back.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Talking in Wisdom, I think are nice role players. I
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: think it's just that balance of like when are you
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: going to give Owen Casey some run? Like is Nico
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: Horner going to be available opening day? Like how does
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: that sort of impact the position player group, Like do
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you want to just like give a little more runway
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: to some of these younger guys? How much if Wrigley
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: played a little more normal, Like what would Patrick Wisdom
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: season look like?
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: Maybe wouldn't even been having this conversation.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: And you know, at the same time, Talkman's had some
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: huge moments for the Cubs. I think he's a real
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: like grown up in the room and a nice player.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Classic gives you a good at bat, can play multiple
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: outfield positions. However, it felt like the last two months
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: of the year, like did he even really play?
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: You know what I mean? Like they kind of roll
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: and then kind of looming over this as well.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: The position player group is Cody Bellinger opt in or
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: opt out decision, which, to be honest, we have not
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: gotten like total clarity one way or the other. I
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: think there have been uh kind of valid points made
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: for either decision.
• 12:17
  Speaker 4: We've gotten mixed signals right of like not especially lately
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: exact exactly.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's and and that's you know, things get
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: can get murky as decisions are about to be made,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: right right, and we can hear varying opinions, varying thoughts.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: But we we definitely I think a week ago or ten.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: Days ago, if you asked Patrick and I, we were
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: in agreement, like he's opting out right.
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: I think there's a little hesitation there.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: Now I've gotten some information that that suggests that maybe
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: that's not as certain as it once was. I don't like,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I think you've gotten similar feedback.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: I don't.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's as much of a slam dunk
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: as we felt it was. You know, these things change
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: and things evolve, and I think that's part of the
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: message I got, like he may opt in. These things
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: change like that was, but who knows these That's kind
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: of the summation of the.
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: Information I got. It's like some people think he may
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: opt in now, but also that's not a slam dunk. Uh,
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: you know, I don't. I don't. I don't feel certain
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: either way.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Now I'm definitely hedging on that a little bit when
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: it comes to some of these names. My my thing
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: about Patrick Wisdom is, I like, I think he takes
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: too much heat from.
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: Fans, right, No, No, I think it takes too much.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Heat from fans because he's a part time player that
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: needs to be used in very specific situations. I think
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: a big part of why fans disliked it is because
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: a lot of times Craig Counsel was pinch hitting Michael
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: Busch that, you know, sitting Michael Busch in favor of
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Patrick Wisdom against a lefty.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: We could debate that. I'm not sure.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: I think Wisdom has a role and he was deployed
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: as best as as is, you know, for his skill set.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: I just wonder is three million dollars for a guy
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: whose best skill set is is power and only real?
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's his he it's a crap out of
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: the ball. But is that is that where you want
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: to allocate those funds? That they're not the Mets, they're
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: not the Dodgers. I remember someone telling me the Mets
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: can just you know, outbid when when the Mets were
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: in that outbidding off season and it was just like
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: random reliever, Like I think it was Brooks ralely. It's
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: like Hems were interested in Brooks raally and they're like,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: we can't sign Brooks. Really they're getting offering him like
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: five million more than we'd even think.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: About, Like it's you know, things like that.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: So they're not that team, so they like three million
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: dollars matters to them? Is there someone that they can
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: get Like here are the two things I was thinking.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Is there someone they can get that value from in
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: the minors that they see right handed just pure slug
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: or is their goal this offseason to find an everyday
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: slugger that makes wisdom a little less valuable with talkman,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: I think it's a it's a similar it's a different discussion.
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: He's he's so value.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: You talked about it when you talked about him barely playing,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: but he showed out valuable he was when barely playing.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: He could handle that.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: He can be like he can be that step in
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: for a month and a half because you're starting center fielder,
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: right fielder, whatever outfielder got injured, uh and and be productive.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: Or he can be that kind that barely plays and
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: give you a quality at bat. I think that's valuable.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: The problem is Kevin al Contra Owen Casey, potential free agent,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: potential trade guy, Like all of those guys are going
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: to fit that that they want to either they want
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: to get someone in there that's an outfielder slash d
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: H right and all likely that's the that's a fit.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: That's the easiest way to upgrade this this offense outside
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: of catcher. So I wonder like he's too valuable to
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: just non tender in my opinion, But is he just
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: is he a fit for this team when you have
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: young guys? So I think maybe he's a tender candidate
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: that you look to trade. I think Al's lies the
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: interesting one. Do you want him rehabbing for two point
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: three million dollars? He's not in all likelihood like Council
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: wouldn't give us an answer if he's out for next
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: year just yet. That was when he just had the surgery.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: He didn't want to give timelines. I think Nick Madrigal
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: may be done with the Cups.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: If I'm there's no there's no reason to bring him back.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't see it, like unless you think he
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: like you wouldn't want him to be the guy stepping
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: in for Nico. I don't see it.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: That's what mat for, That's what James just feels like
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: that ship has.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: Sailed in my mind.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I I I think like, I just think
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: these are interesting decisions in the sense that they are names,
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: right that we've seen play over the past two three years,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: and it may be time to like who are the
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: guys you keep? Who are the guys you know, like
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: Julian Merriweather's an interesting one, always hurt. Is one point
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: three million dollars the market value for him because of
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: his upside?
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: Or is that?
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: And I think it will also tell us a little
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: bit about how how you know how much are they
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: counting every million? Every hundred thousand?
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: Like it?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: You know, is one point three million too much for
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Julian Merriweather?
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: Okay? What are they doing here?
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Is that?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Is that because they are are worried about his upside
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: and his health? You know, he didn't flash enough when
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: he was out there, you know, Like that's what kind
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: of goes through my head, Like Nate Pearson obvious, right,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: you're no doubt like the rest of these I think
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: the relievers in some of these names that we've just
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: seen play a lot over the past two three years
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: are the ones that I look at and then I
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: agree with the Unbouinger. I think that's it's going to
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: be interesting to see how this plays out. These next Well,
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: we'll know by the next time we record a podcast,
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I believe will know what's happening, and.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: It's I guess.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Then we can really start talking about here's how they Well,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: we can ask Jed will be at the GM meetings, like, Okay,
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: this decision has been made. How do you attack this
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: off season? What like how how much like can you
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: laser focus in on different things. I'm curious what their
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: answer will be and how they're going to attack the
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: off season with or without Bellinger.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got to be rare to like look at
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: one Domino having such a big impact, like so early
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: in the off season, because in a lot of ways,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: this roster is sort of set. You're talking about roughly
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: what thirty million dollars, Like if you you are calculating
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: these sort of non tender decisions, and maybe he is
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: that sort of everyday guy you can just run it
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: back for another year with him. One of our things,
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: to your point, if you could trade a talkman, or
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: you can essentially cut these guys for a fraction of
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: the price by a certain date in spring training, and
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you can look it up in the CBA. But like,
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: it's not a fully guaranteed ten.
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: In November.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: But yeah, certainly those things add up. I am curious
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: to hear kind of how Jed spends it. I think
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: he'd be sort of fine either way.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: I think.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: They'd obviously like flexibility, so getting that money back would
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I think probably be appealing. But but Bellinger's a good player.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: He fits this team still really really well. And he
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: is someone who has that MVP capability.
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: There aren't that many.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Guys just out there who you could say, like, yeah, like,
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: if everything breaks right, he might be a top five.
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: MVP candidate next year.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: That's just kind of where he plays, what he does,
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: how he kind of fits for this particular group.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I and I think it's it's easy to
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: just look at last season and say he's not worth
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: that money and and forget about what he did the
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: year before, or or also say like the Wrigley stuff
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: is an excuse.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: It's I don't think it's an excuse.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I think it's a reality, right, And it's just like
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: it has to be factored in. I I'm very curious
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: to see how like, not just how it plays out,
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: but like the reaction by fans, uh and and then
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and then like how good he can be next year
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: if he comes back, because I think there's a chance
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: that he could put together an even better season because
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of what happened at Wrigley was
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: a bit of randomness, and you know, if he can
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: play like even close to how he played on the
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: road at home, you're talking about a pretty dang good
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: season and someone that you know likely then opts out
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: of a final it would be the yeah, a final
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: third year and then hits free agency at what thirty
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: is that? Right?
• 21:31
  Speaker 4: Thirty roughly, and the.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Salary would go down significantly in that in that last
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: year as a front rod.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: So it's kind of a no.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Brainer, right right, Okay, all right, Patrick, We're going to
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: talk more about Cody Bellinger in the weeks to come.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: At the minimum, next episode will be likely a Cody
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: Bellinger heavy episode, So so we'll we'll touch base on
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: Cody Bellinger again and figure out how this decision plays out.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: Let's let's uh, let's take a quick break and wrap
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: this podcast up. All right, Patrick, As we saw, the
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Yankees lost the World Series and with that, one of
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: the best players in baseball will be entering free agency.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Juan Soto will be a free agent officially on what
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: is it five days after the World Series ends, So
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: that's Monday, when when I believe, if I'm doing my
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: math right, I'm probably not.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: H whatever, talk to all thirty teams and yeah, yeah,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: whatever the technicality is.
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he didn't go full Garrett Cole.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: I don't think he had a Boris Corp hat on
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: while doing his postgame interviews.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: But he was pretty open and I appreciate that.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: I don't like, I think the whole like I want
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: to do anything to.
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: Come back to the Yankees. This is where I belong.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Like, unless you like sign an extension right there, I
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: think that rings pretty hollow. And he said what he said,
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: and I think it's important and like to be honest,
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: and he was just like, you know, he's gonna listen
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: to everyone.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: And and I.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Think a lot of different outlets ESPN also at the
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Athletic various different outlets are putting out predictions, but it
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: seems like New York, New York, and then LA as
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: like a sleeper, right, Dodgers is like a sleeper. But
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: that's that's what everyone's talking about, right, I don't the
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Cubs are barely mentioned.
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think the Cubs are spending a lot
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: of time on like a Wan Soto recruiting video. Maybe
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: I'm wrong, and they've totally misled us over the last
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: whatever six seven years. But yeah, for the athletic it
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: was grouped in different here then essentially of half the league,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: that's just like no chance at all, And that might
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: even be you know, conservative, a conservative estimate. I think
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the Dodgers made me think of something. I think it
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: was few.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: Had observed kind of coming out of the John Lester
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: negotiations of.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Even at that time, the Dodgers just had so much
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: money and like so much sort of cachet and ambition
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: that they had this ability to quick strike at any point,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: Like they didn't think Lester wanted to like go to
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the Dodgers obviously wanted to come to Chicago, but they felt,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you know, the Giants put on a full court press.
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: The Red Sox.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Sort of was lurking around there, and then it was
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: like the Dodgers are just not really knowing exactly what
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Lester wanted at that point and what the Dodgers wanted,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: but that they just had this ability where they could,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: like at any point just sort of jump in and
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: we're talking, you know, almost a decade later, most a
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: full decade later, and it's kind of the same thing
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: where like, do you think they'll sign Soto? Like probably
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: not the favorite, but like should the Yankees and mess
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: be worried about it, no doubt? I mean if they
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, look trading for Mookie Betts and signing that
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: monster extension in the middle of a pandemic, Like did
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: people think Freddy Freeman was gonna wine up at Dodger Stadium? Uh,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: Dodger certainly favorite for oh Tani, But do anyone think
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: that contract structure would be the ultimate form of that deal?
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: Like, no chance. So it will be fascinating.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I'd imagine this is not something where uh, things are
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: gonna crater for mister Soto or mister Boris that they'll
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: probably be pushing towards one of those Winter Meetings types
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: deals where if they you know, kind of get what
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: they want and get the big press conference at the
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: winter Winter Meetings. But I know you've been asking around
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: about Soto for a while now, and I don't know.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: You're not very optimistic about that pursuits in Chicago, are you.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you said it like unless we've
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: been misled for years now. It's just not not It's
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: not that the Cubs aren't in a place to do it,
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: like I think it makes all the sense in the world.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I just don't think it's it's the way the Rickets operate.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: And when I say that, it's not like Rickets won't
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: give Jed the money to do that.
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: It's it's what Jed knows will happen when he uses
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: that money like that.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: Now it's like they don't bump it up all of
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: a sudden and now they have two hundred and seventy
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: million to spend. It just really like listen to the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: way Carter Jed talk and they talk about financial flexibility.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: They would lose a lot of flexibility if they listen.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: If you want to push back and say, who cares
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: about that? Or like maybe sign fewer Trey Mancinis and
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: Tucker Barnhart's over the next you know, five years, ten years,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: thirteen years. If that's the pushback, I'm not going to
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: argue with that. I think he's worth it. I think
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: he's worth the lack of financial flexibility. This is not
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: me saying this is the right strategy. I think signing
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Juan Soda would be the right move for the Cubs.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: I like, there's just it's just not the way they've
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: done things, and it's not any We're not getting any
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: indication that they're suddenly changing strategy. I think what I
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: will say as far as the free agency is it's
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: pretty cool that we get like this insane once in
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: a generation talent of Shoheo Tani one off season and
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: then the next offseason it's like Ted Williams clone is
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: just at age twenty six is a free agent. Like
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that's crazy. Like, I mean, it's very rare that we
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: see this. And for me, that's where I start to
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: feel bad for the fans. Where it was never really realistic.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: There were there were.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Some tiny inklings in like tiny moments where it's like,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: are the Cups actually gonna put in a big bid
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: for show? Hey, I'm not sure if we'll even get
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: that with Sodo this winter. But you know, we could
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: be off, They could be lurking somehow and we totally
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: misread this and got bad signals or were misled. I
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: don't think that's the case, and uh, there's a chance,
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: and it's kind of like my ultimately, it's a bummer, right, like,
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: these two generational talents and the Cubs aren't there on them.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: They'll they'll have to make different moves to excite the
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: fan base obviously, but yeah, Sodo, it's gonna be fun
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: to watch. And again, like we talked about this briefly,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: whatever the Mets do like there, it feels like they're
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: about to become like this powerhouse, this obnoxious powerhouse when
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: it comes to free agency and stuff like that between
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: them and the Dodgers, like the Cubs are gonna like
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be frustrating, I think for Cubs fans to
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: watch these types of things where they're just like, you know,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: throwing their weight around and fans are gonna be like,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: why can't the Cubs do that? And I honestly I
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: feel for Cubs fans when it hasn't happened yet, So
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I guess we'll see what exactly happens. But that's that's
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: what it feels like is about to happen with the
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Mets for the next few years, if not the foreseeable future,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: no doubt.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: And I mean, if if the Mets want Soto, they're
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: going to take this way beyond anywhere the Cubs are comfortable.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I do think they were legit on Otani.
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: He made it clear though where he.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: Wanted to play, and the Cubs, I think we're just
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: not in a place where they could credibly say, oh, yeah,
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: we're going to be competing for the World Series the
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: entire length of your contract, and really, to me, it's
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: not even as much the salary on an annual basis.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: It's just if he's gonna be getting a contract that's
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: almost like double the length of Jason Hayward's contract, like
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: that is not going to make Cubs executives very comfortable.
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: I think that is a.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Hard sell internally and not a totally unreasonable position. I
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: know Soto is extremely young, and that's just kind of
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: where this is going.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: But in terms of like.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: Selling it to your bosses if you're Jed Hoyer or
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: signing off on it, if your ownership, like if you're
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: thinking about writing off just like maybe five six years
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of deal. And if your primary goal is sustainability and
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: being competitive every single year, and that you're explicitly not
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: trying to go all in for one season, then yeah,
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: there's just too many there's too many suitors, there's too
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: much hesitation. Just do not see it happening. But uh,
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: I guess we've been I guess we've been wrong before,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: as the hopeful line.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: But we'll see.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: It'll be it'll be fun to hear what to watch
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: the Boris Show in action weekend next week. Always always
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: some good metaphors and some lines that make you sort
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: of grown or roll your eyes as well.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: Always enter.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've grown to uh enjoy it in the sense.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Like I look forward to the to rolling my eyes.
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Oh my, oh dear, here we go again. Uh, And
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: not like I'm not angry about it.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: It's just like one of like get a good chuckle
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: from it, take it all in, you know, for what
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: it's worth, and enjoy enjoy the twenty minutes or so
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: where we all gather around and listen to the to
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: the puns, whatever he comes up.
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: All right, Patrick, we'll be back at it from the
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: GM meetings. We'll both be there.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: We'll record at least one of these podcasts, probably from
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: San Antonio, hopefully after we've talked to Jed and we
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: have some sense of what Cody Bellinger is doing and
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: that that will obviously be important. Thanks so much for
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: listening everyone, This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: and subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. Subscribe to The Athletic,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: where Patrick and I will be on top of all
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: things cubs this winter.
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to everyone.
• 32:49
  Speaker 4: Take care,