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25: Leaving Every Organisation Better Than You Found It with Kaitlyn Kitzan · The Future Herd

0:00
Jesse Hirsh: Hi, I'm Jesse Hirsch.
0:03
Welcome to The Future Herd.
0:12
I love talking to leaders, uh, partly because it's a great source of
0:16
education, great source of knowledge and wisdom, but there's a lot of
0:20
insights to be had, not about markets or margins or the next big technology,
0:27
but something more fundamental.
0:29
What does it actually cost to lead, not financially, personally, the weight
0:35
of it, the pressure, the stress, the anxiety, the responsibility that we ask
0:42
and place on the shoulders of leaders.
0:45
Now, my guest today knows that weight intimately, Kaitlyn Kasan grew up on
0:50
a farm in Saskatchewan, built her own business, sits on multiple boards,
0:55
and is deep in the middle of farm succession, all of that at the same time.
1:01
She's the kind of person who is selling homemade food at nine years old and
1:05
hasn't really stopped hustling since.
1:09
But what makes Caitlin worth listening to isn't just her drive, it's her
1:13
honesty about what that drive demands, about stress, about battery levels,
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about the emotional intelligence that never shows up in a job description,
1:23
but makes or breaks everything.
1:27
Saskatchewan doesn't always get the credit it deserves from the rest of Canada, and
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quite frankly, neither do the leaders who are quietly holding this sector
1:36
together while the rest of us catch up.
1:39
So today we're gonna try to fix that.
1:43
Now, a quick note on costume change.
1:46
You may notice that, uh, in all previous episodes, I was pretty
1:50
much wearing the same thing.
1:51
That was my winter uniform, and now that the heat has a come, come
1:57
upon us, like a very warm blanket, I've switched to summer mode.
2:02
So for the next couple episodes, you might see a little bit of discordance there.
2:06
And of course, a reminder to check out our website, the future herd.ca, or
2:12
we've got lots of activity, lots of new content really on a daily basis.
2:17
But enough of that, let's go listen to Caitlin.
2:22
Caitlin, welcome to the Future Herd.
2:25
Kaitlyn: Thank you for having me, Jesse.
2:27
Jesse Hirsh: Now I kind of have a ritual where the first question I ask
2:31
on every show is kind of abstract.
2:34
It's kind of a intuitive question.
2:36
I want, whatever comes from the gut, does the future mean to you?
2:43
Kaitlyn: I think for me, you know, I grew up in the province of Saskatchewan and
2:47
most of my growing up was under a premier wall, and he always had a saying of, you
2:51
know, his goal was to leave the place better than when he found it, the office.
2:55
Right.
2:55
And I think whenever, you know, I work within an organisation or sit on a board,
3:01
I have kind of carried that with me and it's really, you know, I wanna leave an
3:06
organisation a little bit better than I found it and leaving it in a really good
3:10
place for the next person that's gonna come on and, um, kind of take my spot.
3:16
Jesse Hirsh: Right on, uh, amazing answer.
3:18
And you know, I ran a community space for a couple of years and we had that
3:23
saying over the door, uh, partly 'cause we just wanted people to sweep up.
3:27
But philosophically I agree, it, it is essential.
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And to
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Kaitlyn: Yeah.
3:32
Jesse Hirsh: I do wanna spend some time today talking about
3:34
Saskatchewan, talking about the agricultural sector in Saskatchewan.
3:39
'cause I suspect, uh, those of us in Central Canada do not give the
3:43
respect, uh, that all of y'all deserve.
3:47
you know, part of what we do here in the future herd is we don't just invite the
3:51
best and the brightest, such as yourself.
3:53
Uh, we like to throw you the difficult questions.
3:56
And, and the, the first question I wanted to throw at you, I think is what are the
4:00
most difficult, uh, in the sector bar?
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None.
4:04
And I suspect it's something that you have thought about, is
4:09
stress, stress and mental health.
4:12
Uh, in terms of not just everyone in the sector, but leaders in particular.
4:17
'cause we often ask even more of the farmers who are also
4:22
in a leadership position.
4:23
So, where are you at when it comes to stress?
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Uh, how has your thinking evolved, uh, over your own experiences, uh, with
4:33
the stress that, uh, uh, permeates the sector and the hard work that,
4:37
that all of us are expected to do?
4:40
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
4:41
That is, that's a great question.
4:42
And I think for me personally, I, um, I've always been a high performer,
4:47
a high achiever, which I think, you know, you put more stress on
4:50
yourself when you're like that.
4:52
And continuing onto my entrepreneurial jour, um, entrepreneurial journey of
4:57
being, you know, an entrepreneur and plus coming back to the family farm, you
5:01
know, dynamics, you know, everybody's like, oh, become an entrepreneur.
5:05
So you can pick your own schedule.
5:06
Well, they really mean you work 80 hours instead of 40 hours in a week because
5:10
you're trying to get everything done.
5:12
So yeah, maybe I don't work eight to five, but I work.
5:14
7:00 AM to 11:00 PM instead.
5:17
Um, and then, you know, coming back to the family farm and, you know, going through
5:21
farm succession planning and like we all talk about the accountants and the lawyers
5:26
and everything you need at the table, but sometimes we forget about the motions and,
5:30
you know, the dynamics of farm succession.
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And, you know, right now, personally, uh, my business has been very busy
5:38
this year, but then also we're having some stresses at the farm, right?
5:42
It's, we're, it's calling for snow all weekend here.
5:45
We've had flooding, um, you know, we've had, and we're behind on
5:50
seeding, you know, we just started seeding two days ago and that's,
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you know, quite far behind for us.
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And so just all those dynamics and I think, you know, sometimes
5:59
talking to people about like, how's your mental health?
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Or where are you at from a stress level?
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People there, there's still a little bit of a stigma that,
6:07
you know, lays around that.
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And I really tried to change the conversation around your battery and
6:12
thinking about your mind and your body as you've got a battery and
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where are you at at your battery.
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And so I always like to, you know, ask back, you know,
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where's your battery level?
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You know, are, are you 75%?
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Are you 80%?
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Are you 50%?
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And then understanding what you need to do to charge your battery so you're
6:28
ready to rock and roll every single day.
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
6:31
And, and that's smart too in terms of, uh, uh, reframing it in a language and an
6:36
understanding that people can relate to rather than feel like they're being judged
6:41
or, or, or they're being admonished.
6:44
But, but you also alluded to something that, that I've heard other guests
6:47
o on the podcast kind of hint at, which is the emotional intelligence
6:53
that leaders increasingly need to have to be able to deal with people.
6:57
And, and you kind of identified it in terms of the stress of being an
7:01
entrepreneur and being a farmer, and being a daughter in terms of having to
7:06
deal with your own families and, and, and the complications that come from that.
7:11
But how much do you, as a leader think about your own emotional
7:16
literacy or your own emotional abilities, for lack of a better word?
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I mean, do you take them for granted or is it something that you've cultivated
7:24
as you've, you know, uh, aspired to do what it is you want to do in the sector?
7:30
Kaitlyn: Yeah, I think for me it's, I've always been kind of like really working on
7:35
those soft skills, like people would say, I feel like those, you know, the knowledge
7:38
and stuff with AI nowadays and Google and calculators, like I don't need to be
7:43
able to do long, you know, multiply, you know, like there's a calculator, right?
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To do stuff like that.
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But, so where, where I've really focused and even through my university degree,
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and then my professional development out of university is really honing
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in on those soft skills, conflict resolution, communication skills, um,
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people management, time management, because I lead a team of seven employees
8:05
from my, my business side of things.
8:08
Then I do a tonne of board work, and so you're working with a lot
8:10
of different boards and different personalities and different work types.
8:14
And then you come to a family farm or you have mom, dad, brother,
8:18
sister, and, you know, I always say sometimes, and yesterday was one of
8:22
those days, I'm like, people suck.
8:24
People suck.
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And you know, I just sometimes have to walk away, go for a walk, go shopping.
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That is my big stress reliever, you know, take a, take a minute and really
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kind of remind myself that, you know, we're all trying our best and we're
8:38
coming to the table where we can.
8:40
And, um, you just have to kind of sometimes stop and walk away for a second.
8:45
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
8:46
And you know, it also, thing I kind of want to throw in there, whi, which I,
8:51
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on.
8:53
'cause on the one hand it's self-evident, but the other hand
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it's complicated that if you are working like 7:00 AM to 11:00 PM where
9:02
does sleep fall into that picture?
9:04
Because on the one hand, we're kind of talking about the need to
9:07
respect and value mental health, which to your point, not everyone
9:11
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
9:12
Jesse Hirsh: but it's getting better.
9:14
But sleep is the other
9:15
Kaitlyn: yeah,
9:16
Jesse Hirsh: And I, I struggle with that myself.
9:18
Kaitlyn: yeah,
9:18
Jesse Hirsh: I, I, I'm not trying to claim holier than, but,
9:21
but I'm curious how you tackle
9:23
Kaitlyn: yeah.
9:25
Yeah.
9:25
So sleep has always been important to me.
9:27
I'm an eight hour sleeper and I can fall asleep really easy, so I'm really lucky
9:31
that if I leave my laptop at 11:00 PM I'm probably snoring in bed by 1115.
9:37
So I'm really lucky at that.
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I don't need downtime or, you know, um, my boyfriend always bugs me.
9:43
He's like, I just don't know how you do it, because he's like, I
9:46
need like two or three hours to like wind down and get ready for bed.
9:50
And I'm like working, working, working, working.
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And then I just shut down and go to bed.
9:53
So I do value seven to eight hours of sleep.
9:56
There will be times where, you know, the to-do list is never done.
10:00
Um, but I always think better when I have my sleep.
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And I was the same way in university.
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All my friends would pull all nighters studying and I'm like, what are you doing?
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Like you're gonna be exhausted trying to write this exam.
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I'd rather come, you know, well rested.
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And so at least I've got my best, you know, mat like brain
10:19
power that I possibly can have.
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So I'm a value of a sleeper.
10:23
I try to sleep at least seven, eight is amazing.
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Um, hours every single night.
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And you know, some nights I don't get that, especially when it's event
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season in your running and you've got all these meetings and stuff.
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But then I make sure that, you know, on the weekends I don't book my weekends,
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you know, back to back to back.
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And that's something I've had to learn because since after COVID post COVID
10:45
there, all these events started coming up again and there were so many and
10:48
I wanted to do them all 'cause I had missed them for so many years and I make
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it sound like so many years, really.
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It was probably only two, but still you had missed them
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for, you know, a few years.
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And um, I've had to learn to, you know, say no.
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And I'm still learning.
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I'm the worst at saying no.
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I'm a yes girl for everything, but I'm starting, I'm starting to learn and
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starting to um, you know, balance that.
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And the people around me are great at being like, well Caitlyn,
11:12
do you really have to do that?
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And you know, sometimes I get mad at them.
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But it's also a good just little checkpoint.
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Like, do I really have to go to all of these events this weekend?
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So if I don't get my sleep during the week, I really try to
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make up for it on the weekends.
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Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
11:25
And, and to your point, FOMO is real.
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And, and I struggle with that myself, right?
11:30
It's, there's only a certain
11:32
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
11:32
Jesse Hirsh: in the day.
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There's lots of things going on, and yes, my to-do list is, is
11:37
always growing rather than reducing.
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But there, there's been a few
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Kaitlyn: yeah.
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Jesse Hirsh: said so far that are kind of shifting the usual approach because
11:46
one of our threads, for lack of a better phrase here on the show, is trying to
11:51
understand how, how, how engaged and super smart leaders like yourself, you
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know, how, how you got into the sector, how you ended up being in the position
12:01
you are, but you've kind of answered that already, I I, in terms of your drive
12:06
and your personality and your curiosity.
12:09
So let me modify that slightly then.
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As you've been, you know, enthusiastically embracing the opportunities in the
12:17
sector and, and as we'll get to really showing why the folks in
12:22
Saskatchewan have a hustle that, that, that is globally respected.
12:28
What have your peers been like?
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Like how have you, you know, as someone who is driven, as someone who really has
12:35
that kind of thirst, h how, how, what have you seen amongst people your age
12:40
and, and I mean this in the positive and the negative in terms of people that
12:44
you were like, wow, I, I I like them.
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I look up to them versus others where you're scratching your head
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going, how come they don't see what
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Kaitlyn: Yeah.
12:52
Jesse Hirsh: Again, as an old guy, I would love to tap into your thoughts on
12:56
young people and, and what we as a society could be doing better to get more people
13:01
like yourself who are driven and who are are, are eager to play their part.
13:08
Kaitlyn: Yeah, no, I, and you know what this is, I've been so frustrated
13:11
with so many of my friends that we just don't even talk about most of this stuff
13:15
when we get together because, um, I would say since, you know, high school
13:20
throughout university, you know, post, you know, university, and then now kind
13:24
of as I am working on my entrepreneurial journey, like I've always been a believer
13:29
of volunteer, volunteer, volunteer.
13:32
And I think this comes from, you know, the way that I was raised,
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you know, raised in a, on a farm, our closest town was 300 people.
13:39
My dad was on the rec board, my mom was on the rec board.
13:42
And I think I was three years old and I was selling chocolate bars at
13:45
the canteen at a hockey game, right?
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And we were, throughout growing up, like we volunteered and volunteered
13:52
and volunteered and you know, my parents always taught us you give
13:55
back to the community that raised you.
13:57
And you know, that's just been something that has really stuck with me.
14:00
And so wherever I have went in life, it's get involved, you know,
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volunteer for different organisations, um, give back and, you know,
14:08
be involved in your community.
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And so many of my friends, like you ask them for an hour of their time
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or two hours of their time, and it's really like, what's in it for me?
14:18
How much am I getting paid?
14:19
What am I getting back from it?
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And I'm like, what?
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Like, it's just such a different mindset.
14:24
And I think we've seen this in society.
14:26
It's all about me, me, me, me.
14:27
And they don't see the larger picture of what are you doing
14:30
for the community, right?
14:32
Or I have friends, um, with kids now and you know, they're asked to
14:37
fundraise for the daycare or for the hockey rink or for a sports team.
14:41
And they were just like, how much can I write the checkout?
14:43
I don't wanna do any of that.
14:44
And I'm like, what are you teaching your kids by doing that?
14:47
Right?
14:47
Like, none of us probably have time to go do a bottle drive or
14:50
a, you know, whatever fundraiser.
14:53
But I said, if you're teaching your kids that money can buy out everything,
14:57
then you're not teaching them what I was, you know, taught as a kid.
15:01
And it was that hard work ethic, right?
15:03
And so that's probably like more of the negative where I'm just like so frustrated
15:07
and, you know, hiring employees, I see that and I see how people are raised.
15:11
And I always go back to it's how you're raised, because I see people who are like
15:15
amazing work ethic, you know, ready to go.
15:18
And then I see some people that I'm spoonfeeding, right?
15:21
And they, because they, they haven't had that opportunity.
15:24
Um, so it's been so interesting and I, I hate when people call it
15:29
the, um, rural and urban divide or the east and west divide.
15:34
'cause I, I truly think it comes back to your parents.
15:36
I was, you know, raised in a very traditional family where we worked
15:41
hard, but we played hard, right?
15:42
Like, that was kind of our, you know, mentality.
15:47
I know other farm kids who were raised as, you know, differently than I was.
15:52
And you know, so I always, you know, my parents, um, they were older parents.
15:56
I think they were 38 when they had me.
15:58
But every who I am today, I always point back to them truthfully
16:02
because, um, they made me who I am.
16:05
And they really showed me kind of who the leader that I wanna be within my
16:09
local community, but also my national community and my international community
16:13
of, you know, um, really well shaping me.
16:16
I see other people like me, right?
16:17
And I look, I'm like, what's our similarities in life?
16:20
Like, how are we both, you know, so driven and so, um, community orientated.
16:26
And I can also look back at their parents and be like, yep, they
16:28
were raised in a very similar way.
16:30
And so that's kind of what I have identified.
16:32
Now, I'm not a researcher, an academic, I haven't done a Reese, you know,
16:35
research paper on this, but just from my observations, it always seems to
16:40
come back to how you were raised.
16:43
Jesse Hirsh: Yeah.
16:43
And, and I, I affirm that if only because I, I am a, a, a reflection, positive
16:49
and negative of my parents and, and
16:51
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
16:52
Jesse Hirsh: I, I, I was always grateful that they were who they were
16:55
because I would look at other kids and realise the advantages I had.
17:00
Because to your other point, parents are role models whether they wanna be or not.
17:04
Like whatever
17:05
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:06
Jesse Hirsh: do, positive and negative, the kids tend to emulate it.
17:10
And, and I think to
17:11
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:11
Jesse Hirsh: that's why community engagement is so essential on
17:15
the multi-generational level.
17:18
it, it kind of
17:18
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:19
Jesse Hirsh: to the, the entrepreneurial question, because
17:22
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:22
Jesse Hirsh: hand, I, I've always regarded agriculture as having a,
17:27
a kind of entrepreneurial spirit to it as a whole in that you, you do
17:32
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:32
Jesse Hirsh: of have to hustle, you do have to seize opportunities, but you are
17:37
obviously on a whole other level when it comes to not just entrepreneurial
17:41
confidence, but entrepreneurial curiosity.
17:44
Like you really seem to enjoy
17:46
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:47
Jesse Hirsh: you're someone who has the
17:49
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:50
Jesse Hirsh: in a very good way.
17:52
So before we
17:53
Kaitlyn: yeah,
17:54
Jesse Hirsh: that, where did you get that from, right?
17:56
I mean, the obvious answer could be your parrot, but you have something
18:01
special when it comes to that desire to build, to create, to make things.
18:07
Kaitlyn: yeah.
18:07
So for sure it comes from, you know, growing up on a farm, you know, going to
18:11
the cattle market every year and selling our cattle and grain and like, for sure
18:15
that, but it really probably started, um, lots of my friends were getting like.
18:20
Kind of jobs, like little like jobs after high school or even elementary, like
18:24
babysitting jobs in elementary school.
18:26
And we lived 40 miles, um, from our closest city of 16,000 people, you
18:32
know, lived 10 minutes to our closest town of 300 people, not a tonne of
18:36
jobs or babysitting jobs and that town.
18:38
And so I was kind of jealous, like all my friends had these little jobs
18:42
and I was like, well, I want a job.
18:43
And my parents were like, sorry Caitlyn, we're not driving you
18:46
there and back for you to make $10.
18:48
Like, we're gonna lose that in fuel so you can do chores around the farm.
18:52
And I'm like, well, that's not a job.
18:54
Like I don't wanna do that.
18:55
And so, um, I come from a Ukrainian ancestry and you know, my baba
19:00
taught me how to make beatniks, which is a traditional dish.
19:04
So I started making beatniks and selling it to family and friends at
19:08
the age of like nine or 10 years old.
19:11
And I was rolling beatniks and selling it.
19:13
And I, I truly think looking back, that's when I first became an
19:17
entrepreneur because I was like, I'm gonna find something to have my
19:20
own unique job and make some money.
19:22
Right?
19:23
And then, um, throughout kind of did that.
19:26
And in high school it wasn't super cool anymore.
19:28
So then I worked, you know, went and worked at a pharmacy or whatever, but
19:30
then I was in university and again, I was like, man, I wish I could just have
19:34
some like side money, you know, maybe hit up the bar or hit up a concert.
19:37
And, um, I started my Mary Kay, I became a Mary Kay consultant and
19:42
all my friends are like, you, you don't even wear makeup and skincare.
19:44
But I had met another farm girl who was doing it.
19:47
I'm like, well, if she can do it, I can do it.
19:49
And what I liked about it is like, I could work two hours and make
19:54
hundreds of dollars as my friends could work two hours and maybe make $20.
19:58
Right?
19:58
And so there was no like sky.
20:00
And again, so I kind of went through the whole Mary Kay
20:03
programme throughout university.
20:05
And I would never tell my professors this, but I think I learned more about marketing
20:09
and sales from Mary Kay, you know, educational models than in university.
20:14
But, you know, went through that in university and it was such a sweet gig.
20:18
Like I earned a diamond ring.
20:19
Like I was pretty high class in university doing that.
20:23
And then I went and worked in the corporate agricultural
20:26
world 'cause that's what you do.
20:28
And then it was my dad.
20:30
So my mom's being an rn, you know, unionised employee, government
20:33
employee, she's amazing.
20:34
But very, I wouldn't say super entrepreneurial because
20:38
she, that was her career.
20:40
My dad very opposite.
20:41
And him and I are like, business idea, business idea, business idea.
20:44
And we're always throwing things, um, around.
20:47
And my mom's always worried like, don't over commit yourself.
20:50
Don't over commit yourself.
20:52
And she's the one who's always usually checking in on my mental
20:54
health and my stress levels.
20:56
But, um, my dad and I were talking one day and I'm like, dad, I'm
21:00
killing myself on this salary job and I'm making, like, if I figure
21:03
it out, I'm barely making any money.
21:05
And I'm like, for who?
21:06
A publicly traded company.
21:07
Like, and my dad's like, well, let's figure out a business rate.
21:11
Like, he was very entrepreneurial and my mom thought we were crazy.
21:14
And now she's like.
21:16
So proud of me, you know, and how successful I am and
21:19
you know, has come behind it.
21:20
But it's even funny because um, I'm still very like every day I've got a new
21:26
business idea and my boyfriend's learning about this of like, and he, it takes him
21:31
about a week to think it's a good idea and like I'm like, it's a good idea.
21:34
And we investing in this right now.
21:36
And he always laughs at me when I'm coming cruising home, you know,
21:40
speeding into the driveway and slamming on the brakes and rip up our graphs.
21:43
'cause I took the corner and I'm like, we're building this and we're doing this.
21:47
And he's like, okay, just calm down a little bit.
21:49
But I, I think if it was up to me and if I had money, we would
21:52
have 20 businesses rocking and rolling here in rural Saskatchewan.
21:57
Jesse Hirsh: And don't get me started about how AI agents
22:01
could scale up that capability.
22:03
'cause this is not the podcast to have that particular conversation.
22:07
But to your point about learning, I am a big fan of applied learning.
22:12
And, and that's why I think both
22:13
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
22:14
Jesse Hirsh: Kay and with On the Farm, you end up getting far more
22:18
efficient and, and far more accelerated learning than you would in a classroom,
22:23
which is not to knock the classroom.
22:25
'cause there are lots of people who kind of require that environment.
22:30
there are others, and I, I suspect that includes present company who
22:34
are gonna learn way faster when, when you can learn and have hands
22:38
on and kind of move with that.
22:40
And so I, I'm, I'm curious how, and this, this kind of brings us, we're,
22:45
we're doing a, a non-linear way to talk about all the subjects, how has
22:50
Kaitlyn: yeah,
22:52
Jesse Hirsh: deal affected your agricultural leadership?
22:55
Because, you know, on the one
22:57
Kaitlyn: yeah,
22:57
Jesse Hirsh: kind of describing the, the joy of the entrepreneur and that you get
23:01
to decide what you do and you get to focus on opportunities, whereas agricultural
23:07
leadership is often collaborative.
23:09
You're often having to work with a whole bunch of other people
23:12
and really talk things through.
23:15
yet you are clearly an entrepreneur.
23:18
So I'm, I'm curious how you translate that, how you sort of take your
23:23
entrepreneurial self and maybe infect that enthusiasm with, with other leaders
23:27
within agricultural organisations.
23:31
Kaitlyn: yeah.
23:32
And going to kind of, to the hands-on learning, you know, also
23:34
a four H kid growing up hands-on learning, you know, learned that.
23:37
And then I just remember out of university I wanted to do my MBA
23:41
and my, um, I was reporting to a VP of this corporate company and
23:44
she's like, you wanna do an MBA?
23:46
She's like, don't pay 20 grand, we'll pay you 20 grand to do an MBA.
23:49
And she's like, I'll give you the M-B-M-B-A experience.
23:52
And so I'm so happy I worked in the corporate world for a bit because
23:55
the amount of like hands-on learning HR wise, finance wise, that I got.
24:02
I've never done an MBA, but I would challenge anybody that I learned a lot
24:05
in those few years of her being like, I'll give you the MBA experience 'cause.
24:10
I learned a lot and I appreciate her for that.
24:12
'cause it saved me probably more than 20 grand actually, if
24:14
I really figured out the math.
24:16
Jesse Hirsh: Yeah.
24:17
Kaitlyn: talking about, you know, being an entrepreneurial leader in the
24:20
agriculture industry, I didn't probably identify this till the last few months
24:26
and I, I was like, okay, some boards I'm really rocking and rolling with
24:32
and then some other boards like I don't even wanna go to the meetings, right?
24:35
Or be like, it's so hard.
24:37
And I'm like, why?
24:38
Like what's the difference between these two organisations or two different
24:42
types of groups of people even?
24:44
And I figured it out and it's kind of to answer like what you said is whenever I
24:50
take now on a new client or I'm working with a board or looking at sitting
24:53
on a board, I ask them like, what is their appetite for change innovation?
24:59
You know, like kind of being open to different ideas and new perspectives.
25:04
And just because we have done something for so many times doesn't mean that
25:08
we need to continue to do it that way.
25:10
And if they're like, no, like we're an organisation that here's our yearly plan
25:14
and we just rinse and repeat every single year and we don't wanna change anything.
25:19
Probably not a fit for my company and probably not a fit for me personally.
25:22
And we've learned to say thank you, but no thank you.
25:26
Right.
25:26
And move onto to a different organisation.
25:29
One of the organisations that I've recently taken on is the general manager
25:33
of sas, younge, sas, young Egg Farmers.
25:35
And that was one of my questions.
25:36
I sat on the board when I was in university and I
25:39
would say it was pretty good.
25:40
But we did the same thing every single year.
25:42
And that was pretty standard.
25:43
They had reached out to me 'cause they're like, we need to change.
25:45
Like we need to make some changes and we wanna kind of refresh.
25:48
And that's what I got really excited about.
25:50
And everybody on that board is so aligned and so very like, yes, let's try it.
25:55
Yep, let's try it.
25:56
You know, let's try it.
25:58
And that's where I really, really fit on an organization's like, these are
26:03
the three things we do every year.
26:04
This is what no change, no innovation, just continue to do it.
26:08
I've really had to learn to say no.
26:10
And even my volunteer time, I did a self-audit of everything that I
26:15
volunteer, all of my business clients.
26:18
And then I had created kind of like an Excel rubric of where it fits with
26:22
me, what brings me joy, does it fit with kind of who I am as a person?
26:27
Am I providing value?
26:29
Are they providing value back to me?
26:30
Like is it a good working relationship?
26:32
And I did say goodbye to a few organisations after that
26:35
because they weren't, you know, they weren't a good fit for me.
26:39
And you know, I always say you can bring a horse to the water
26:42
but you can't make them drink.
26:43
And you know, some of those boards, I tried pushing and pushing change and
26:46
innovation, but it was always a fight.
26:49
And I'm like, you know what?
26:50
There's only so much fight in me and so much energy and effort where
26:54
I could be directing that towards a different organisation, a different
26:57
group, and really driving change.
26:59
So.
27:00
Jesse Hirsh: And I think that's really crucial.
27:02
E especially someone with your exceptional talents.
27:05
And at the same time, limited time and capacity that you do have to be strategic,
27:11
but to be kinda idealistic at a moment.
27:15
Like I, if we imagine, and, and this is one of the questions
27:18
I like to throw at people.
27:19
If you imagine if resources weren't an issue, what would you say to those groups?
27:26
Like, I, if you could transfer, you know, the, the column A, which is the people
27:31
who don't want to change into the column B, the people who are innovative, who
27:36
are really serving their members and are ready for whatever tum mutualist
27:40
times we face, would that look like?
27:44
Right?
27:44
What, what would that conversation be?
27:46
And, and I say this in the ideal 'cause I'm acknowledging how stubborn
27:50
some of these organisations could be, and you are better off just finding
27:53
people who dig where you're at.
27:56
But again,
27:57
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
27:58
Jesse Hirsh: we could be theoretical.
28:00
I'm curious how we approach it, because I think you've identified a very real issue.
28:05
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
28:05
And I think sometimes A and B need to meet in the middle, right?
28:08
And I always think about it as a horseshoe, right?
28:11
Like, because sometimes we can be like, we can't change everything, right?
28:15
Like we can't just go in and clean slate and change everything
28:18
and try to like disrupt.
28:19
And sometimes I will be that person just because we have a whole bunch
28:25
of A's, and we need a disruptor, like an extreme disruptor.
28:28
But the end goal is really to meet at the middle of that horseshoe, right?
28:31
To meet kind of together where it's like, you know what, X, Y,
28:35
and Z is working really good, but let's try A, B, and C, right?
28:38
Like, let's come together.
28:39
And I think people need to, we need to be collaborative.
28:41
We need to compromise.
28:42
And I'm kind of bo you know, like, but if we have a whole bunch of B, sometimes in
28:47
the room, sometimes I act as the A right to be like, okay, people, like let's not
28:52
just throw everything in the garbage.
28:54
Like there is a few little things that we, tokens that we can hold
28:57
onto and then meet in the middle.
28:58
And so I really identified into rooms where do I need to be A B?
29:03
Or where do I really need to be C where we come together and kind of
29:06
identify, um, those different areas.
29:10
And then for people who are really stuck in a, and you know, I was recently sitting
29:14
on a board and I would say people were really, like, there was no other bs.
29:17
I was really lonely, kind of in that new innovative, and I was also really lonely.
29:21
And c like nobody else.
29:22
Everybody was really strong as, and like we're not changing anything.
29:26
And I really started to challenge them.
29:28
I'm like, so we're, our organisation is meeting the needs of today.
29:31
I'm not gonna deny that we are successful as today, but as we look
29:35
into the next three, five years, I don't see us meeting the needs
29:39
of, you know, three to five years.
29:41
'cause life is.
29:42
Everything is changing, right?
29:44
And so how can we make sure that we're not being reactive, but we're being proactive?
29:49
And so, um, leading them kind of through some exercises of
29:53
like, what does that look like?
29:54
What do we think three to five years?
29:56
And that's really hard for some people to even think one year out,
30:00
nevermind three to five years.
30:01
'cause they're not visionary people, right?
30:04
And, um, you know, trying to leave them to an exercise of really
30:08
trying to think longer term than what's right in front of them.
30:12
I think, you know, this backing up to it, it's really of creating
30:16
your board composition and really realising that you've gotta have
30:20
some visionary people on the board.
30:21
You've gotta have some practical people on your board.
30:23
You've got like, and if you have all practical people on the board and no
30:27
visionaries, you're probably gonna be stuck in a, and so it goes back
30:31
to like your board matrix and who do you have on your board and your
30:35
board recruitment and making sure that you're creating a versed team team.
30:39
Um, but all of them are coming to the table willing to collaborate
30:43
and nobody's so damn stubborn, um, that they're not willing to
30:47
come and kind of listen to others.
30:49
Jesse Hirsh: And, and let's unpack that for a bit.
30:51
'cause I, I, I think you've really identified both a crucial
30:55
opportunity, but at the same time a crucial pain point that a lot
30:59
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
31:00
Jesse Hirsh: face.
31:01
And, and I, with my kind of media background and even earlier, my theatre
31:06
background, I, I kind of think of it as players on the stage that if you
31:10
Kaitlyn: yeah,
31:10
Jesse Hirsh: the right cast of characters, no one's gonna wanna watch the show
31:14
and you could have a total mess.
31:16
So I'd love for you to unpack kind of how either you assess an existing board or
31:22
Kaitlyn: yeah,
31:22
Jesse Hirsh: the opportunity you could create a board, say
31:25
it's even a new organisation.
31:28
Where do you think about those different roles and, and how to ensure you get
31:32
all the right players on the stage?
31:34
Kaitlyn: yeah.
31:35
Yeah.
31:35
And it even comes from my business of who I'm recruiting, you know,
31:38
to be on my team business wise.
31:40
And I always, I learned from one of my great mentors, like always
31:44
hire, um, higher than you, right?
31:47
Like, hire people that make you look good, the team look good, right?
31:50
And I see so many leaders try to hire maybe people that they
31:56
don't feel threatened by, right?
31:58
And I never approach it in that way, but I see so many leaders, I'm
32:02
like, why did they hire that person?
32:03
Like, but I feel like so many leaders don't wanna be threatened by somebody.
32:07
And when my leader hired me, I had very different strengths than she did, right?
32:12
And we complimented each other.
32:13
We made a great team.
32:14
And so that's how I would hire from a business standpoint.
32:17
And you know, I always tell people, don't hire.
32:20
Because you might feel threatened by them.
32:22
Like that's, you know, that's not a great way to hire.
32:24
You wanna hire good people, hire people that are gonna make you look good, make
32:29
the team, and really move the needle.
32:30
From a board standpoint, one of my first things, especially if I'm coming
32:34
in as an ED or a general manager role and you know, gonna be reporting to a
32:38
board, is I wanna get to know the board.
32:40
I wanna get to know their strengths, their weaknesses, where they're coming from.
32:43
And I've kind of got a very simple board matrix that I make all of them fill out.
32:47
And then it really allows me to kind of analyse, um, you
32:52
know, who makes up the board.
32:53
And then leading up to board recruitment.
32:56
It's not like going to the A GM and hoping somebody's putting their hand
32:59
up or, you know, doing a call out.
33:00
We're really starting to, you know, tap some shoulders, right?
33:03
So maybe we're missing a lawyer or an ac somebody with a financial
33:07
accounting, banking background.
33:09
Maybe we're missing the visionary person.
33:11
Maybe we're missing, I find lots of boards or missing their customer
33:16
or their target audience, right?
33:18
So if you are representing your board, representing, like I
33:23
sit on a college board, right?
33:25
Like you should probably have a student right on the board 'cause that's
33:27
who you're really serving, right?
33:29
And so kind of identifying like what are some of those missing pieces?
33:34
I'm tapping shoulders way before we're putting a board recruitment out, right?
33:38
Because I want some people to be interested.
33:40
I want a conversation.
33:41
Not saying that I'm like slating my candidates, but you do want to think
33:46
of like who's interested and who's gonna be a good fit for the board.
33:49
Um, and then come election time, it makes go a little bit smoother.
33:53
Another thing that I am a very big fan of is since post COVID and during
33:58
COVID, the virtual world has taken over.
34:00
I love the virtual world.
34:01
'cause we can do this podcast recording virtually.
34:04
We can do meetings, you know, virtually, and there's time for that.
34:07
But boards need, I'm not saying every meeting needs to be in person,
34:12
but you do need to have one or two in-person meetings every single year.
34:17
And you also can't make them where you come in, do the business, go home.
34:21
You need to try to add some team building if it's a supper or if it's something
34:26
more structured like an escape room or, you know, going to do a tour together.
34:31
But you really, I'm seeing so many boards move away from in-person to
34:35
save on costs and to, you know, since COVID, we've done them virtually and we
34:40
don't need to go back to in-person, but we cannot forget what that in-person,
34:44
because what I might say virtually or what I might say over an email or a
34:48
text, sometimes it's a little bit more risky or a little bit more out there
34:52
than what I will say at a table, right?
34:55
And so I just really stress and I kind of have jumped around a few
34:59
places, but in person board meetings, really, and especially if you're
35:04
doing like a, I don't wanna call it a strategic plan, but if you're doing
35:07
like that visionary session or what can we change or how do we do better?
35:12
So much easier to do that in person with whiteboards in a room, you know, taking
35:17
ideas than trying to do it virtually.
35:19
And people are cutting each other off and then people aren't feeling
35:22
like they're being listened to.
35:24
Um, and so the board plays a really important role, but more importantly,
35:29
it's your staff and it's the operational too, because I've seen a lot of boards
35:33
are like, yeah, we wanna do this and this and this, but maybe the staff don't
35:37
agree and then they just don't execute.
35:39
Right.
35:39
And but boards, lots of boards don't wanna have to deal with performance
35:43
management or conflict resolution or any of those because they're, most of
35:47
them are volunteer boards, or they're getting paid a very little per diem.
35:50
And they're like, I do not wanna have to performance manage our
35:54
CEO or ED or general manager.
35:57
And I don't want to do have to deal with conflict resolution and approach them
36:01
and say like, Hey, like, we've given you direction you're not following.
36:04
And so I also find that lots of eds also drop the ball in their court, right?
36:10
So the board has done their work and then the ED hasn't,
36:13
you know, continued that on.
36:15
And, um, I always have to remind sometimes Eds and I have to remind
36:19
myself, we work for the board, right?
36:21
And even though the board might gimme direction, and I might not
36:24
agree with it, well I work for them.
36:26
Right?
36:26
And that's kind of where I need to carry out.
36:29
So, sorry.
36:29
That was a really long answer, Jesse.
36:31
Jesse Hirsh: No, that was, that was fantastic.
36:33
And, and you know, two things from that.
36:34
One, the value of body language, which you can sort of see in, in online meetings,
36:42
but that's often what makes in-person meetings so valuable is, is you can get
36:47
a sense physically of how people think about stuff, how they feel about things.
36:52
And it's far more efficient both at getting to consensus, but to
36:56
your point, having people feel that they've been listened to, right?
36:59
That, that they are being, uh, uh, generally respected.
37:03
similarly, I am very old fashioned in that I believe that those of us in the
37:08
AgriFood sector be eating together.
37:12
We should be meeting over food.
37:15
'cause that is literally
37:16
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
37:17
Jesse Hirsh: doing.
37:17
So I again, affirm your point about it's great we can meet
37:21
online, but meeting in person,
37:24
Kaitlyn: Yes.
37:24
Jesse Hirsh: essential.
37:26
I, I, I
37:27
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
37:28
Jesse Hirsh: this as a pivot to kind of talk about Saskatchewan as a whole.
37:31
You know, partly because we can, because the nature of your work allows
37:36
you to really see different aspects of the sector in your province.
37:42
it, it strikes me as I've been listening to you today, that there is, I think,
37:46
a bit of a paradox when you think about the Saskatchewan AgriFood sector.
37:51
Because on the one hand, guys are by far some of the most
37:56
innovative around the world.
37:59
And I
38:00
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
38:01
Jesse Hirsh: you guys know this, even though I think at times
38:04
you kind of take it for granted.
38:06
think the rest of Canada doesn't really know it sufficiently, like certainly
38:12
people in Toronto and Ottawa do not know it the way that they ought to know it.
38:17
So, on the one hand, you've got Saskatchewan as this global leader when
38:22
it comes to innovation, not just in agriculture, but in other areas as well.
38:27
But then you also have this real respect for community, for community values,
38:32
for, as you were saying, a, a kind of social responsibility again, doesn't
38:38
really exist in Toronto or Ottawa and may not exist in, you know, a, a lot
38:43
of other places across the country.
38:46
But it is kind of a paradox, right?
38:48
A desire to really do new things and a desire to make sure that
38:52
everything, you know, has a certain stability and a certain continuity.
38:56
Am I overreading this, or, or does this speak to kind of the secret
39:02
sauce or the elements that make Saskatchewan such a special place?
39:07
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
39:07
No.
39:08
And you know, I would say you hit the nail on the head there
39:11
and you know it, our communities are evolving and changing, right?
39:15
And so the community that I grew up, you know, in was very different than
39:20
it even the community it is today.
39:22
Right?
39:22
And you know, there's a few different factors to that.
39:24
We're seeing urbanisation, people moving to the cities, right?
39:28
And like our cities are Regina and Saskatoon and they're very different
39:32
than the Yorkton's, the Thes, like the communities that I grew up in.
39:36
Um, so we are seeing people move to the, um, the cities.
39:39
We're also seeing, um, immigration numbers, right?
39:42
Like it is very common in our small town communities to see Philippines
39:47
or East Indian or you know, we have got a good Jamaican community
39:51
here and a Nigerian community.
39:54
And so that wasn't like that when I was a kid, right?
39:58
In these communities.
39:59
And so I think, um, communities are learning as they evolve.
40:05
Um, how do they continue to keep that, you know, great community spirit?
40:10
So like initiative that, um, I am responsible for in the
40:14
community of Yorkton is, we call it Downtown Culture Fest in June.
40:17
And so every Thursday in June, we, it's a big party in the park.
40:21
We bring the community together, there's food, and then it's featuring two
40:26
different cultures every week, right?
40:27
And what I've been hearing is, yes, it's an opportunity for those cultures
40:32
to gather and meet each other within our community, but more importantly,
40:36
it's an opportunity for me who have lived here my entire life to learn
40:40
more about the Nigerian community or the Filipino community, right?
40:43
And so it has turned, we've done it for five years now, and it has
40:47
turned into this, like, you don't miss event every Thursday after work.
40:52
You come, you bring your kids for supper, you do the bouncy castles, you listen
40:55
to some music, you watch some dancers.
40:57
And it's really, I feel like, connected our community to the different cultures.
41:01
'cause they're new to us, right?
41:03
My dad doesn't know what Filipino food is, or Filipino.
41:07
Right.
41:07
Like, but it's really bridged that opportunity.
41:10
So I would say our communities are evolving.
41:13
I think where, um, we're struggling a little bit in small town Saskatchewan
41:18
is where some of these cultures come with kind of the, I don't
41:23
wanna say the homesteaders, but the homesteaders and the people who have
41:26
been there, how do they come together?
41:28
And, you know, instead of them creating all their own, you know, rec associations,
41:33
like where do we, how do we all come together and have one rec board or,
41:37
you know, support the rink or support.
41:40
Because I, my dad always said like, as soon as you lose the
41:43
school and the rink in your small town, you lose your community.
41:45
Right?
41:46
You've gotta keep your school and your hockey rink in this community.
41:50
Right.
41:50
So I think there's some challenges in there of how to bring them together.
41:54
Um, I would also say our farming and rural communities have changed too, right?
41:58
Like, innovation has led the agriculture industry in the last,
42:02
you know, over the last few years.
42:04
It's, um, we're being recognised for it.
42:06
We're really proud of that.
42:08
Um, but yeah, there's just kind of this intergenerational, you know, challenge,
42:15
you know, and I see it between my dad and me where I'm like, Hey dad, like,
42:19
we're now these innovative farmers and we're being recognised on world stages.
42:23
And he's like, I don't care.
42:24
Right?
42:24
Like, he doesn't really care as I'm like, this is amazing, right?
42:27
Like, and so just, it's been an interesting dynamic
42:31
of like, you know, I care.
42:34
He doesn't, and I think it's okay, right?
42:36
And I'm just like, you keep doing what you're doing.
42:39
He's like, yeah, I've been no-till since before you were born, Caitlyn.
42:42
And I'm like, okay, well, but now we're being celebrated for it, right?
42:45
And he's like, that was like 30 years ago.
42:47
Like, I, I don't, I don't know why.
42:50
And so I think it's just understanding that everybody's
42:53
coming from it from a different perspective and a different thing.
42:55
And really, um, I think, you know, we're being recognised as innovative things,
43:00
but I would say what's more affecting our small town communities is just
43:04
they're evolving and changing and, um, it's hard to keep up with all of it.
43:08
Like there's so much change happening and, um, how do you stay on top of it all?
43:13
Jesse Hirsh: And your anecdote about your dad at no-till farming, I mean,
43:17
I follow a bunch of old cranky farmers on TikTok, and point, they have that
43:23
attitude, like they're incredibly impressive in terms of their skills, in
43:27
terms of their knowledge, while at the same time they have that Canadian self
43:31
effacing of like, oh, it's no big deal.
43:33
Or like, like they're always downplaying themselves.
43:36
So, you know, to your point, is there a new generation of leaders
43:41
like yourself kinda emerging across Saskatchewan who are like, wait a
43:45
minute, we gotta claim the title.
43:48
It's been ours for quite some time.
43:50
Everyone around the world
43:51
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
43:52
Jesse Hirsh: what we do a decade later.
43:54
Uh, I, I'm curious if there is a, a kind of resurgence of that Saskatchewan
43:59
pride coming, uh, amongst your peer set.
44:03
Kaitlyn: Yeah, there is.
44:04
And I think I'm an international traveller, lots of my friends who are
44:07
international travellers, and it's pretty cool that you don't have to
44:10
say, oh, you're from Canada anymore.
44:12
You can say you're from Saskatchewan.
44:13
And they, they might have heard of us before.
44:16
And that's like, as I travelled through India and China and Peru and, you know,
44:21
doing different, like business trade mission type of work, like pretty cool
44:25
that like, obviously I'm proud to be Canadian, that will always be number one.
44:29
But it's also pretty cool that they know we're Saskatchewan and you know, we we're
44:32
the bread basket and you know, we've got some like amazing, um, things as well.
44:37
So Yes, for sure.
44:38
And I would say one of the main reasons I came back, um, to be the
44:43
general manager of Sask Young Egg is that board right now is phenomenal.
44:47
It is.
44:47
Everybody is.
44:48
So that is so committed to showing what we do in Saskatchewan agriculture, what young
44:55
farmers, how they're doing it, um, you know, by raising their families, being,
45:01
you know, the best farmers in the world.
45:03
And it inspires me every day.
45:05
And I feel like those are, I am the general manager, but
45:09
they're like all my peers, right?
45:10
And when we meet, like, I'm like, we're gonna change the world, like
45:14
this little group with like, I think our funding is like $50,000 a year.
45:19
Like with $50,000 a year, we are gonna change the world like this group.
45:23
And we're just all so pumped about it and we wanna fly our, um, flag high and far.
45:32
And so that group has like really inspired me.
45:35
Um, I'm also a part of, you know, the Wheat Growers Association and I
45:39
would say it's mostly guys who have been on there a quite long time.
45:43
But what's so cool to me is now all their kids are getting involved and so we're
45:48
seeing, you know, their kids, like all their dads and moms, they're great people.
45:53
I've, you know, they've become really good mentors to me.
45:56
They become almost like a mom and dad to me.
45:58
They're all amazing people.
45:59
But now seeing that next generation, they've just got a little bit
46:03
more like fuel in the tank and they're like, okay, we'd be doing
46:07
it this, but let's do this now.
46:09
Right?
46:09
Like so much more.
46:11
And um, yeah, there's, there's quite a few in Saskatchewan that are really starting
46:17
to be like, and I, I think it does also help that we're seeing our premier travel
46:21
and go internationally and tell our story and we're like, how do we go with him?
46:25
Right?
46:25
Like, how do we help to be the voices to tell our story wide and far?
46:31
Jesse Hirsh: And to your point, I, I, I kind of feel on certain
46:34
levels, and I'm biassed here, that Premier Mo kind of stole a bit of
46:38
the spotlight on that China trip.
46:40
You know, not just because the China trip was so substantive, but
46:45
because, you know, he really carries himself in a way on the world stage.
46:49
That, to my point, reflects I think the reputation that Saskatchewan is building
46:55
globally in, in terms of being such a powerhouse, not just in agriculture,
47:00
but agriculture counts for a lot.
47:03
on that point,
47:04
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
47:05
Jesse Hirsh: you credit, Caitlin, you, you've been hitting it out of the park.
47:07
Your, your answers today have been spectacular.
47:11
and this is the part of the conversation where with exceptional leaders like
47:15
yourself, we, we talk about policy and, and policy is one of those
47:21
Kaitlyn: yeah,
47:21
Jesse Hirsh: where some people shy away, some people are really excited.
47:25
But again, assume that I have taken over the Prime Minister's office and I've got
47:31
access to all sorts of resources, and I'm like, Caitlin, what should we do?
47:36
What, what are the policies you think that we should be focusing on?
47:41
Kaitlyn: yeah.
47:41
I think for, you know, I was actually in Toronto this weekend,
47:45
um, for a Blue Jays weekend.
47:47
So go Blue Jays.
47:49
And, um, you know, I, I was talking to some local people and, um, I
47:55
always just said like, my dad knows our land better than anybody else.
48:00
He's been on it.
48:01
He is 66 years old.
48:03
He has, was born and raised on our farm, grew up on our land.
48:07
And all he wants to do is to continue to farm his land to the best of his ability.
48:14
And he is not gonna want to do anything to wreck our soil or our
48:18
water because we have no other land that's available for us.
48:22
And he really wants to see the next generation and his, you
48:27
know, his dad's legacy lives on.
48:29
And so I would just like to see government policy that allows farmers
48:34
to farm the land because how, and they're going to, I truly believe that
48:38
they're gonna be stewards of their land.
48:39
'cause it's not like they can just go to the store and buy more land, right?
48:42
Like, they have to be stewards of the land, the environment,
48:45
'cause it's what we live off of.
48:47
And, um, so that's like my, you know, number one that I always say.
48:52
Um, number two is we selling commodities and with everything happening with
48:59
tariffs and international trade, like I truly believe in free trade.
49:04
And we as farmers need to have the options to be able to trade our
49:08
products to wherever we want, right?
49:11
And without that, I feel like government needs to negotiate free trade and
49:15
then let the farmers do the rest.
49:16
And so I'm all about, you know, let farmers do what they do best, just
49:21
create them that platform, give them the platform to do so, right?
49:25
And so, um, by environmental policy, farmers are gonna take care of their
49:29
land, make sure there's free market trade so we can sell our products and
49:33
our commodities because we do produce ama like great food, great quality food,
49:39
um, abundance of food for the world.
49:41
Um.
49:42
And yeah.
49:43
And then the last, but not least, do not block innovation, right?
49:47
When we are seeing innovation coming from maybe different countries or even
49:51
grown within Saskatchewan, looking at different, you know, seed varieties,
49:55
different fertilisers don't, we've gotta speed that up because I don't
50:00
want, you know, if a technology has been adopted into the states, I don't
50:03
wanna have to wait two or three or four years before I can use that innovation.
50:07
I wanna be able to use it just as soon as my American farmer friends can.
50:12
So those are kind of the three like policy things.
50:15
And then something that I am, you know, just passionate about too is
50:19
being from the town of Yorkton, 16,000, you know, people, we are turning
50:24
into a value added hub for the world.
50:27
We have the largest canola crushing plant Richardson.
50:30
We have Louis Dreyfus that just doubled their canola.
50:33
That, um, expansion plant that's opening up.
50:36
Louis Dreyfus has also done a pea protein plant.
50:38
We've got Grain Millers, which is one of the largest oat milling,
50:41
and they do all the Quaker oats.
50:43
We've got TA foods, which is flaxseed.
50:45
We've got harvest meats, which is hot dogs and you know, sausage and
50:49
all the, like, you have to have a harvest hotdog that's like tradition.
50:53
So we have so many value added companies.
50:56
Um, we're just in my town of 16,000 people.
50:59
And so I would love to see more government policy of how do we
51:03
add value to our commodities before they leave this country.
51:06
And so it doesn't have to be Saskatchewan, but wherever.
51:08
I think there's a huge missed opportunity that we're sending
51:12
way too many commodities and raw products where we could be actually
51:15
maybe doing some of the processing and packaging right here at home.
51:19
Jesse Hirsh: A hundred percent.
51:20
And, and I, I'm, I thank you.
51:22
Because I didn't know that Yorkton was such a, a, a, a
51:25
hive of value added activity.
51:28
Uh, I, I think of anything, is an example where, you know, not to fault you guys,
51:34
but more people should know that, right?
51:36
Like that's, again, that kind of speaks to the exciting activity that's happening
51:41
in Saskatchewan that tragically people outside of Saskatchewan, at least
51:44
people outside of the prairies do not know and understand and value enough.
51:49
So thank you, uh, for sharing that, uh, here on the podcast.
51:54
And, and let me ask a follow up again, both as a nerd, but
51:58
also as an Ontario person.
52:00
You know, I hear a lot, and, and notwithstanding your point about value
52:05
processing before we ship stuff away,
52:07
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
52:07
Jesse Hirsh: I hear a lot about issues around railway and backlogs
52:12
in terms of grains and other commodities being shipped out.
52:15
Can can, can you educate me a little bit on, on, on how that plays out
52:19
and how we could be fixing that?
52:22
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
52:23
So, um, Saskatchewan is landlocked, right?
52:26
Like we have no access to ocean, we're landlocked.
52:30
And so most of our goods is sent by rail, by train to the port of Vancouver.
52:37
And there's some other ports that are goods, but I would say majority
52:39
of our goods in Saskatchewan are sent to the Port of Vancouver.
52:43
A few different things.
52:44
Agriculture, commodities are usually lower, um, priority than like oil and gas.
52:50
So like we need to get oil off of trains and into pipelines to free up rail space.
52:56
So that's like, like one of the problems.
52:58
Number two is, um, labour issues.
53:02
So if somebody, you know, if any trains port people, if anybody goes
53:08
on strike, that halts everything.
53:11
So when they go on strike during harvest time, when we're trying to
53:15
ship all of our grain out to the port of Vancouver, nothing is moving.
53:20
We have no place to store, you know, grain 'cause we're at capacity of
53:24
bins, the elevators aren't taking grain and it really causes an issue.
53:28
It also causes a cashflow issue because I don't get paid till my grain is delivered.
53:33
So that's labour, like labour stoppages and labour issues is another big one.
53:39
And then once you get to the port, again, labour backlogs, you're
53:43
dealing with the city of Vancouver.
53:45
Um, some of that infrastructure is hundreds of years old.
53:49
It needs updating, it needs efficiencies.
53:51
But that's not like, I feel like right now we've been just throwing a little
53:54
bit money to kind of put the bandaid on the problem where we probably need
53:57
to be looking at the bigger picture because there's one bridge right now
54:00
to get to some of those terminals.
54:02
If that bridge a ship hits it, it collapses.
54:05
Like we're halted for, I don't even know how many, I wanna say years it's
54:09
gonna take to build a new bridge, right?
54:11
And so those are like a few of the major issues of getting
54:15
our stuff out and exported.
54:17
I've had, um, the opportunity to go on two trade missions, one to China
54:21
and one to Peru, and then have, have heard from a lot of other people who
54:25
have travelled to trade missions.
54:26
What we keep hearing is Canada produces the best, the best wheat,
54:32
the best lentils, the best peas, the best beef, like best oats like you
54:36
name it, they say Canada produces the best food, but your guys's um,
54:42
transportation reliability sucks.
54:45
It completely sucks.
54:46
They're like, we can order it and you say it's gonna be delivered then
54:50
it's never gonna be delivered then.
54:51
And so I think it's actually a national crisis, a national priority where
54:56
we need to figure out, because we are such a trade driven company of
55:01
how can we make sure that our, um, transportation infrastructure allows us.
55:07
'cause I wanna be known to be the best, but I also am like.
55:11
I need to be able to deliver my goods on time.
55:13
Right.
55:14
And that's really important when we're talking to some of the large millers
55:17
in these countries, they're like, we can't wait weeks for wheat or we
55:20
can't wait weeks, um, weeks for oats.
55:23
Right.
55:23
And so I think, um, you know, I've talked to people at the federal
55:27
government, I've talked to people in the provincial government and they all agree.
55:30
We just have to almost as a country decide we're gonna invest into
55:34
our transportation, um, corridors.
55:37
Jesse Hirsh: Right on.
55:38
And, and what was it?
55:39
We can't wait for wheat.
55:40
Say that five times fast.
55:42
And that'll be very difficult.
55:44
Kaitlyn: know.
55:45
Jesse Hirsh: Now, uh, we
55:46
Kaitlyn: Yes.
55:47
Jesse Hirsh: out of
55:47
Kaitlyn: Yeah,
55:48
Jesse Hirsh: uh, but I do like to,
55:50
Kaitlyn: yeah.
55:50
Jesse Hirsh: uh, uh, say to the guest, you know, is there anything that we haven't
55:54
touched upon today that you would like to talk about, you know, before we wrap up?
55:59
Kaitlyn: No, I just think, um, you know, if you're listening from outside of
56:03
Saskatchewan, I feel like Saskatchewan is always sometimes mixed a mist.
56:07
'cause we don't have the mountains, we don't have the ocean, we don't.
56:10
But you know what?
56:11
We've got the land of living skies.
56:13
Um, we're, we've got the beautiful prairies, but it's the
56:16
people that make Saskatchewan.
56:18
It is the hardworking hustle people.
56:22
And I always invite people to come out and experience Saskatchewan, experience
56:26
supper in the field, experience, um, what we do great here in Saskatchewan.
56:31
And um, also like we don't, we're not like the hillbillies of the
56:38
west or we're not the wild west.
56:40
Right.
56:40
Like we are, we're part of Canada.
56:42
We want to be seen to be a part of Canada.
56:45
And I just say, you know, come and come and visit Saskatchewan,
56:48
come and meet, um, the people.
56:51
And, um, I don't think you'll regret it.
56:53
I've had quite a few Ontario friends who are like, I feel like I'm
56:56
wasting a trip out to Saskatchewan.
56:57
And they've come to visit multiple times after because, um, it's such a beautiful
57:02
province and it's the people who make it.
57:04
So, no, I would just, you know, thank you Jesse, for having me on today and
57:08
um, I think it was a great conversation and we covered a lot of topics.
57:12
Jesse Hirsh: Though the last question, often the most difficult because
57:17
people wanna go on and on and on.
57:19
This is meant to be a quick, short answer, kind of whatever's in the gut.
57:24
But this is the shout out section of the show.
57:28
are the leaders?
57:29
Who are the people that you look up to, that you think we
57:32
should be paying attention to?
57:34
And again, this is not an Academy Words accepted speech.
57:37
This is just the first few names that come to mind.
57:40
And, and we won't fault you for the names that you think of after,
57:43
like, oh, I forgot to mention
57:46
Kaitlyn: Yeah.
57:46
Okay.
57:47
Well I think people you should follow.
57:49
Number one, my biggest mentor, um, Alana Cook, she was Deputy Minister
57:54
of Agriculture for many, many years.
57:56
Deputy to the premier for many, many years.
57:58
Ran for leader of to, ran for Premier in Saskatchewan.
58:01
Didn't get it, but she's a mover and shaker in agriculture.
58:04
She's a trailblazer, um, of women.
58:06
So that would be number one.
58:08
Um, and number two, 'cause I don't think they get enough credit.
58:15
Again, I go back to my parents.
58:17
Um, I think, you know, they, especially with my dad of, you know, being the
58:23
grumpy old farmer, but he, he has done things for our farm that changes.
58:28
So, 'cause there's, I probably can name 50 to a hundred amazing
58:31
leaders within Saskatchewan.
58:33
But I have to say to my, you know, my role model, my mentor, and then
58:37
my parents because I, I wouldn't be doing this podcast without them.
58:41
Jesse Hirsh: right on.
58:42
And, and all the parents listening and all the children listening feel that
58:46
moment of love that we all do when we express that kind of f appeal to.
58:52
thank you Caitlin.
58:53
Uh, this has been fantastic and, uh, we'll definitely have to have you
58:57
back, uh, if only because I think this just really scratches the surface
59:02
of the Saskatchewan Appreciation Society within the future herd.
59:07
Uh, so thanks again.
59:10
Kaitlyn: Thank you.
59:12
Jesse Hirsh: It brings us to the close of another fantastic future herd episode.
59:18
Of course, uh, all credit for that goes to Caitlin.
59:21
Caitlin, thank you very much.
59:23
Uh, the way you think about leadership, community and, and what it actually means
59:27
to leave something better than you found.
59:29
It really resonates with me and I suspect our audience as a whole.
59:35
I also think the battery analogy is something that doesn't just apply
59:40
to farming, but applies to life in our technology saturated society.
59:45
I think those of us who are farmers feel a certain amount of gratitude that
59:49
we get to touch soil, that we get to hang out with animals, that we get to
59:54
be part of the natural cycles of life.
59:56
But anyone listening, quite frankly, would benefit from that battery analogy and the
1:00:02
need to recharge it on a regular basis.
1:00:07
Speaking of recharging, if you wanna recharge your knowledge, if you want
1:00:13
to recharge your hope, if you wanna recharge your pantry, uh, go check out
1:00:19
our website, uh, the future herd.ca, where we've been generating quite
1:00:25
a knowledge base about the AgriFood sector and all things connected to it.
1:00:31
Uh, this includes our episodes, it includes our daily briefs, uh, it
1:00:36
includes our knowledge articles, and increasingly it's going to include other
1:00:41
links to resources within the sector.
1:00:44
And of course, if this episode meant, uh, something to you, the best thing
1:00:48
you can do is share the podcast.
1:00:51
Rate the podcast, follow the podcast, engage the podcast.
1:00:57
Think of it as the wind in the sails of any digital content.
1:01:02
Uh, so until next time, take care of your cells, check that battery
1:01:07
level, and we'll see you soon.