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Transcript

Rugby Direct - Episode 138 · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks at B.
• 0:12
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• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Inside the Game from every angle, It's Rugby Direct with
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Elliott Smith, powered by news Talks at B.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Welcome into RPY Direct, power by Excess Solutions, salivating you
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: and your business to a higher level. Back with you
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: from across Capetown and indeed New Zealand. After the All
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Blacks so went down eighteen points to twelve to South
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Africa in the second game of this two of the
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: fourth game with the Rugby Championship, it's a loss that
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: consigns the All Blacks the three defeats in their last
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: four full straight defeats of South Africa. The Freedom Cup
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: goes back to South Africa for the first time since
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. All sorts of things to unpack
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: once again. Liam, Greetings from Cape Town and look at
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: another loss for the All Blacks in similar risk condition,
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: you know, circumstances to the last.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: That's all another week, another deflating defeats, isn't it And
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: as you say, very similar circumstances and the trophy cabinet.
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: You meant to rattle off some stats there for some seventy.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: Five years that fullbacks have lost four times in a
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: row to South Africa and Raises Tenya is looking you know, teetering,
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: isn't it. He was came riding a wave of goodwill
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: and public support and he will certainly be feeling the
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: heat now on the trophy cabinet looking very bad. There's
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: going to be no Rugby Championship, no freedom cut, so
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: only the Blairs low left.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Indeed it is and cheaper is We'll get to the
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Australia Argent send to result of it later on, but yeah,
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: I mean, surely that can't go this year. But anyway,
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: let's focus on the spring Box game first and foremost,
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: and for Megleam, this was a tale of just not
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: taking opportunities. I think the All Blacks had plenty of them,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: plenty of opportunities or around the spring Box red zone
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: they could have capitalized on. They weren't good enough to
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: take those opportunities. They missed the penalty that would have
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: got in front. So ultimately, you know, similar to last week,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: they were good enough to win that Test match but didn't.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: It's not though I were blowing off the park. There
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: theres thereabouts but it was the critical moments that they're
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: just not nailing at the moment.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: Well that's there's once again, the All Blacks were dominant
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: in the first half and I think one of the
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: major concerns coming into this two tests series was how
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks would compete physically, because the forward pack
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: had struggled against England at home. Didn't really you know,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: might have got parody at most. They were beaten at
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: the breakdown and the loss to the Pumas, and Wellington
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: obviously responded the following week, but going up against the
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: world champions on their on their home court, very physical
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: prow West. As we know, the spring box and the
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: All Blacks forward pack has been a revelation, a real
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: success on this tour. They fronted physically, they competed well,
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: they laid a platform and it's actually been the back line,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: the decision making and the final quarters. The final quarter
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: collapses again. This is a fourth Test in succession where
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks have failed to score a point in
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: the final quarter.
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: You mentioned the McKenzie kick, he missed three.
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: I've got question marks about why Jordi Barrett wasn't taking
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: the long kicks and then Obviously the All Blacks did
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: well to build pressure. There was a Scott Barrett drop
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: ball just completely slipped through his hands. There was a
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: line out era from Ardie Severe and then the McKenzie
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: missed penalty from thirty meters out bang in fronts. You know,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: those are the kicks that you have to take. And
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: then the box come home late through Malcolm Marx. So
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: is it as much a mental failing for the All Blacks?
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: Are they wilting under the pressure more so than anything
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: else here?
• 4:09
  Speaker 5: It's quite possibly it.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: And you look back, I mean, I think that's the
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: early two thousands where they just didn't quite have it
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: mentally over a very very good Wallaby side and they
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: went able to nail those key moments, and you think
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: years straight they're lost on Toto Kefu.
• 4:28
  Speaker 5: Try and Matt Book penalty.
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: They seem to lose right at the very end in
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: those key matches and at that point it was sort
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: of they didn't have a mental fortitude to close out
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: those test matches. And I think that is where they're
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: at at the moment. They just don't quite have that
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: killer instinct that great All Blacks teams have. And indeed
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: this great Spring Box team does have it at the moment.
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: They you know, can go ten rounds a few maybe
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: be almost on the canvas, but they rise up and
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: they deliver the knockout blue when it really matters, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: that's what great rugby teams do. And I agree with
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Scott robertson the fact that he says they're not far away,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: but test rugby is a game of inches, and you're
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: not far away can feel like a million miles away.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: And what we've seen over the last couple of weeks
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: is the All Blacks could be leaving South Africa, you know,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: in theory, with two wins and no defeats. As it happens,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: they're zero to two from the tour, and Rugby Championships
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: gone and the Freedom Cup has gone. So it's a
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: game of fine margins. And I think the thing for
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks is now is they have to get
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: those fine margins right. They have to get their mental
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: side of the game switched on again, and they have
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: to learn how to close out test matches. Something's not
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: right in those last twenty minutes of test matches. They
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: changed the bench around this week, bench didn't really have
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: too much of an impact this time of round so
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: and Sandarry didn't come on from the bench. So whether
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: that's the answer, whether it's it's you know, the bench
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: or whatever it is, there was changes made and it's
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: the same story as the previous week.
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: I want to touch on the bench there because for me,
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: it was very bizarre use of the bench. The All
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: Blacks props, I think both of them, certainly Tyrrel Lomax
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: because he got the late yellow card, paid seventy plus minutes.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: You know, when's the last time you saw an All
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: Blacks prop go that deep into the game. I think
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Fletchereneul might have played five or ten minutes. As you say,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: Sam Darry didn't even come on off between a fussy
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: you know, barely used as well. So you know, the
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: All Blacks did reshape the bench and with Bodenbarro and TJ.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: Perternaro there but some very bizarre substitutions or lack of
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: and that again goes back to the point that we
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: made last week about the lack of trust in the
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: bench and when you're coming up against the bomb squad
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: and we all know how vaunted they are, that was
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: bizarre for me. You know, the All Blacks props to
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Mighty Williams and Tyrrel Lomax did very well throughout that test,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: but I think there was an element of fatigue in
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: the Box winning some late scrum penalties and Tyrrel Lomax
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: given away that late yellow cards. I don't think there's
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: any need for the All Blacks props to be playing
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: seventy plus minutes.
• 7:14
  Speaker 5: No, I don't think so.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: I think they've got too able replacements in the form
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: of Offer and Fletcher that can come on. I thought
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: that was an interesting one. We haven't heard further about
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a stuff when Cody Taylor I thought was the best
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: player in the park for the All Blacks in that game,
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: and he played all the game bar that time it
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: was off for an Hia and I did see a
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: suffer one more getting some treatment later in that periods
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: on the pitch, so maybe he wasn't fit to return.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: But regardless, I mean, Cody Taylor was in ridiculous form
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: in that game yesterday, so I can.
• 7:43
  Speaker 5: Understand why they didn't.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I guess we should pay respect to South Africa as well,
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: because I think this is a very very good spring
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: Box team and probably not getting the plaudits they deserve
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand. I mean, this is a team that
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: won a world championship last year and has just got
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: even better the year following. Reminds me a little bit,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: to be honestly, in of twenty sixteen and the All
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Blacks won the previous year. They had some retirements but
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: actually kicked on and performed even better in twenty sixteen.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: So this is a very very good box team deserving
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: of their rugby championship win. That'll be rubber stamped, you
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: would think at some point in the next couple of
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: weeks once they get some points against Argentina. But this
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: is a box team that is imperious at the moment
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: and is running world rugby and leading the charge.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent earlier.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I think there's a case to be made that this
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: is one of, if not the greatest spring box eras
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: and teams of all time. And there has been some
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: great South African teams down the years when you go
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: back in time, but their list of achievements, the depth
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: that they've built, you know, you can forget about how
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: many changes they made between Test one and two against
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: All Blacks here. They did the same when they were
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: in Australia, vastly different starting teams. They brought about Hondro
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: Pollard and Willie LaRue. I think it was five or
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: seven starting changes from Alice Park to Cape Town and
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: usually that would be disruptive. But their ability to know
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: their game, their depth of character and in a belief
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: they have been twice overturn leads against the All Blacks
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: and never really looked rattled. Obviously came over the top
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: and in the back end of those last quarters. So
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: you're right, we do need to pay tribute to this
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: box team. But we did see Ireland go out there
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: in July and respond from a first Test loss to
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: win their second test. So I think, you know, there's
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: a question mark around this All Black team, and I
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: think this is another reality check about just where New
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: Zealand rugby at the elite level is at. Maybe they
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: are I think world number three maybe currently, but maybe
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: there's even question marks about that because right now you
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: have to say Islands and South Africa are ahead of them.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: Maybe France as well.
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: England came down and there was a ding dong battle
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: in July here wasn't there, So there's a bit of
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: ground for this All Black team to make up and
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: just on you mentioned Cody Taylor there. You know, I
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: don't want to be too critical, so we'll have some
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: positives in here, you know, keep keep the mood up somewhat.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: But Cody Taylor toop by coming of age tour. For him,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: he was absolutely outstanding. Again, I thought Sam Kane was
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: good to Mighty Williams and Wallace a TC in his
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: first start. I think he missed a couple of tackles,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: but in the unfamiliar role of blindside, I thought he
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: really stood up, physically, carried well, never looked overawed. So
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: he's got to be a long term prospect that he
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: has to be in that's the composition of that loose
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: Ford trio going forward.
• 10:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I think he was excellent.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: Obviously the miss tackles aside, and you can kind of
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: forgive that to an extent given the.
• 11:06
  Speaker 5: First test start and everything like that.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Obviously it's a pressure burner environment, but I thought he
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: was press cooker environment suny. But I thought he was
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: absolutely superb in that start and he took his opportunities
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: and black Head are ruled out with a minor handstring injury.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Another issue for Ethan alongside his other ones he's had
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: throughout the course of his career. But SOA Titi stood
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: up and I suppose leading into that those players you
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: mentioned they are perhapsical, with the exception of Taylor and Kin,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of them are young. And is this maybe
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: where the all Blacks now need to go? I mean,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: they won't say it outright, we can sort of speculate
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: on it, but you know, should they I mean the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: kind of halfway house for a rebuild at the moment?
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Is it time to go full not baby blacks necessarily,
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: but give some of these younger players a shot. And
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: because clearly they're taking their chances at the moment, some
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: of those younger players they're putting in and look to
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: the future a little bit.
• 12:02
  Speaker 4: It is it is one hundred percent time for that
• 12:04
  Speaker 4: to happen early.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: I think it's been a really conservative selection ste for
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Scott Robinson and you can understand that to a degree,
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: but there hasn't been enough evolution. He's you know, when
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: you look at the selections of TJ. Petinara and Sam
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: Kine to a lesser extent, he has picked for the
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: now and the need to win test matches now or
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: what he believes is necessary in this moment. But you're right,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: the youth is what's actually performing for this All Black team.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: Wallace a tit was another example. Peter Luckeye should be
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: in the squad for me, the really missing cam royguards.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: He'll be back for the Northern Tour. But I also
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: think Billy Procter has to get a crack at center.
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: I think Riekowane could move out to the wing because
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: we need to talk about this All Black back three.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: They were very, very.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Underwhelming when they exposed under the high ball. Will Jordan
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: looks really short of a gallop after missing the whole
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: Super Rugby season. He was quite on the wing last week,
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: looked very uncomfortable at times at fallback. But just the
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: makeup of that back three for the All Blacks, they
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: were peepered with the high ball. They got exposed there.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: It would be very very surprised if we saw that
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: back three start again.
• 13:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't think we'll see that in Sydney or Wellington.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Look at severy Reese deserved yellow card for that takeout
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: in the year. You can see maybe what he's trying
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: to do, but he completely misjudged it. March Talia is
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: not the player he was certainly in All Blacks Jersey
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. Even last year just seems
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: to have not quite got where he needs to be
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: this season, just doesn't seem to have that instinct with
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: born hand, hasn't been searching for work, made a couple
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: of errors in Cape Town here, so and then Will Jordan,
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: You're right, I think this looks out of sorts a
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: little bit at the moment. And you know hasn't played
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of rugby this season. You just wondered whether
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: some more rugby under his belt he can begin to improve.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: It's it's only read the test arenderm where he can
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: get it. But maybe he goes and help out Tasma
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: with a shield challenge your shield defense next weekend against Wellington.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know, but I think game times and is
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the thing that Will Jordan needs to be a big
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: ass room to go halfway around the world and do that.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: But he does look just not the player we know
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: he is, and I'm sure he'll get back to there
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But I think you two tests he's had
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: at full back starting now, I think the jury is
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: firmly out over whether that is the role that he
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: is destined for in this all blacks environment. I agree
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: about Billy Proctor. I think they need something in midfields.
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: I thought Antonine and Brown performed well when he came
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: off the bench, but I think someone like a Billy
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: prop dick and add a real edge to the all
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Blacks and midfield. We saw he had a great game
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: against the Figians and San Diego hasn't been cited since.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I think putting him out against the Wallabies would be
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: a big boost for this it's all blacks back line.
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: Liam.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: The Prenier question is obviously around the All Blacks and
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: not having South Africans Scythes and Super been missing that physicality.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Having seen this tour here, seeing the twenty twenty two tour,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: obviously the World Cup final last year, where are you
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: at her on this whole debate?
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Look, I think it's it is an issue in terms
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: of preparation for the elite arena Test arena that It's
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: clear Australian Super rugby teams are several rungs down. The
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: lack of competitiveness.
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: There has been.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: A deep seated frustration, but I think South Africa's exit
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: has been rewritten to a degree. Yes, it came about
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: because of COVID and New Zealand Rugby. Maybe I think
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: they forced the issue, but I think it would have
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: happened anyway. South Africa had a desire to hear north
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: because of the time zone, and I think that would
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: have always happened. And I think the physicality aspect is
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: somewhat overblown. I think if you look across New Zealand rugby,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: there are the athletes there and I think when we
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: look at this tour, physicality hasn't been an issue. It's
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: been the last quarters. It's been the decision making, the
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: ill discipline, you know, the lack of accuracy that the
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: final quarter meltdowns. That's been the issue. So yes, in
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: an ideal world, New Zealand would have greater exposure to
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: South Africa. I think they're going to get that in
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the coming years with more touring and the like. But
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: it's never going to change now. We can't go back
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: in time. They're not coming back to Super Ragby. So
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: it's about what can you do now.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: It is and I think not I mean, I agree
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: with you on most those points there. I think around
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: South Africa it's been rewritten a significant amount. And this
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: is a very very good spring Box team we're watching
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: at the moment, and the All Blacks team are not
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: quite there, but it's not like their poles apart. I
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: think you look at Australia or in Argentina that result
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: this morning, look at South Africa in the way they
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: played Australia earlier on in this rugby Championship, that's a
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: bigger gap between those two. So while there are issues,
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I'm sure it plays a little bit of a factor
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: the All blacksmissing South African experience super level, but I
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: don't think it's the be all and endul I think
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: the big issue for the All Blacks and you mentioned
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: some players there, but I think it's producing those big
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: body types that were actually struggling with at the moment
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: in New Zealand rugby, those big imposing body types, and
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: we just simply don't have the likes of body for
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you that the South Africans are able to call on
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: and that are getting rugby game time. It's while we
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: people are looking at you know, Fabian Holland, who is
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: still more than a year away from being eligible to
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: play for the All Blacks, that New Zealanders just aren't
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: those big body types wh aren't getting them playing on
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: the rugby fields at the moment. I think that's the
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: big issue for New Zealand rugby. A lot of playing basketball,
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: a lot aren't playing sport at all. So if you
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: get more of those sort of body types on the
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: rugby fields, that's going to try into better games of
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: the domestic level, better games of the Super rugpy level.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Bigger players, you're playing those players more often. I think
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: that's the that's the real telling issue for New Zealand
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: rugby is finding these bigger bodies and getting them into
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: the mixes. Why they've targeted Josh Lord. You know, he's
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: barely played NPC was Super Rugby for the last three
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: or four years through injuries and various things. But he's
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: a kind of frame that they believe can be converted
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: into a test footballer.
• 18:34
  Speaker 5: And so I think that's the ultimate one for the
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: All Blacks.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: No doubt missing some of that phasicalty's key, but towards
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: the end of Super Rugby, those South African teams weren't
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: much chop anyway.
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: I think some of those records are you know, looked
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: at through roast and glasses. Some of the South African
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: teams were canon fighter to a certain degree. Wentn't they
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: blown out of the water when you look at the
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: cheatahs and the likes. So it wasn't like they were
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: coming down to New Zealand and knocking over teams here
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: on a regular basis. So yeah, one one question I
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: want to put to you we haven't touched on really
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: an overarching view of Scott Robinson's tenure to day So
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: four and three as it stands. You mentioned his record
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: before in terms of lost, what is it three of
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: the last four we've seen, you know, Leo McDonald exit abruptly.
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: What's his demeanor been like in South Africa in terms
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: of following these defeats.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: How do you think he's handling the pressure?
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Because it always was going to be a massive step
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: step up from Super rugby to the Test scene. So
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: what's he been like from your perspective, how do you
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: think he's handling the pressure cooker of Test rugby?
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: Well, I think he's frustrated because he can see it
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: almost coming together and it's not quite there and he
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: can see, you know, they scored one or two of
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: those opportunities or purity goal goes over, then they win
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the Test match yesterday, or they put themselves in at
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: least in a very very good position to win the
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: Test match. So there's a little bit of frustration that
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: they those opportunities aren't being converted. I think the reality
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: of Tests rugby is certainly there now for Scott Robinson
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: is that these are the fine margins that Test rugby
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: is decided upon, and you have to back up week
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: after week. You have to wipe the slate clean. You're
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: not about accumulating competition points. You're not, you know, playing
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: the Blues one week and the Rebels the next. You're
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: playing you know, the Suffragans twice in a row, and
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: they're going to come at you and come at you
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: for the full eighty minutes. So I mean, I think
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: there's definitely a sense of belief from Scott Robinson, but
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: also a sense of frustration as well that it's not
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: coming together, maybe as quickly as he would have liked.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: I interviewed in the Sky yesterday and he pointed out
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: that the South Africans were seven years into their journey
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: and the All Blacks are, you know, seven matches, so
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: there is a disparity there. But as an All Blacks
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: coach and as an All Blacks team, Unfortunately, you don't
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: get time to rebuild necessarily. There's an expectation that you
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: win and win every Test match, and at the moment
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: you pointed out the record four and three, with some
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: big Test matches to come later on in this season,
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: we've got to learn quickly about what test rugby is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: about and for learn to execute those key moments.
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, for me, it's been underwhelming to date because I
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: expected more. I expected him to come in with a
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: bit of a blank page and usher and not necessarily
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: an overnight revolution that's unrealistic. But I expected him to
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: put his stamp on this team and we're only rarely
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: seeing that. In terms of the selections now, you know
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: in this Test and a couple of those were injury enforced.
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: For me, it's been very much a continuity from last
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: year's World Cup team, almost picking the same team that
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: am Foster did to a degree. So for me, in
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: the face of adversity and the face of back to
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: back defeats to the world champion, in the face of
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: mounting pressure and scrutiny, now he needs to be brave
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: and bold and promote that youth around some experience, but
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: really put a stamp on this team because I think
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: that's what we've we've been waiting to see.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Indeed, yes, it's got to be interesting to see how
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: they look for Australia get coming up in a couple
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: of weeks time in both Sydney and in Wellington the
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: sact click break here and Rugby Direct come back with
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: more after this.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: This is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fans.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Every try do try a sixty sec every tackle to tackle, tackle,
• 22:40
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• 22:43
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• 22:47
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• 22:53
  Speaker 2: Liam let's get into the final four and let's just start.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: We got away from your Blacks from a moment or two,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: but what on earth happened? And then Australia Argentina gain
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: looking at it a halftime, Australia leaving twenty points to
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: seventeen and then just blowing off the park in the
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: second spell conceiving fifty points to seven.
• 23:11
  Speaker 5: This is a big win for Argentina.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And know the conditions were hot, but Australia having led
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: twenty to three after half an hour shouldn't be losing
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: a match in the manner that they.
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: Did, then, no they shouldn't. It was very much.
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: You know, you think it's tough being an All Blacks
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: fan drumbing a Wallabies fan. It's I have to ask
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Morton how he's getting on. Look very much a foal storm,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: wasn't it? The last gasp win in Laplace last week
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: for the Wallabies. I think they yet conceded something like
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: forty seven points. I think they let at one stage
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: twenty points to three. So a massive meltdown in Argentina
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: and very much shredding you know, all the confidence that
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: they built the week before. So I guess it just
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: underlines the task in front of Joe Schmidt and expectations,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: reinforces expectations for the All Blacks to retain the bleederslow,
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: doesn't it.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: It does, and it's going to be a tricky task
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: for them to come back home and figured that out
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks time in Sydney and in Wellington.
• 24:19
  Speaker 5: It's yeah, there's a lot.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: There's a lot to work on for the Wallabies, that
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: is for certain at this point, and doesn't appear like
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: there's too much light at the end of the tunnel
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: you have to say. And I've seen people saying it's
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: just time to open the borders and select players from
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: a board, which probably leads us into a pretty good
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: second topic, Limb that are going to throw out you.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Given the All Black performances in the last couple of weeks,
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: is the time to change New Zealand rightbe's eligibility laws?
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: No, No, I don't think it is. I think for
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: me there's a bit of context to be ahead here.
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: And I would put this question to you, Elliott, how
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: many overseas players would you actually select for the All
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: Blacks right now?
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Well, richi In will be one, Yeah, Shannon Brazzel would
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: be another, leicestifying and Nukhu would be three. And then
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: I think you look at you know, whether they retire
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: internationally or not. You know, Brady Retallic if he's still
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: charging around in Japan and wanted to play test Rake,
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: but I think he'd be a prospect that you could
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: look at as well.
• 25:34
  Speaker 5: I mean, Aaron Smith, you could look at him.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, in some ways, those players going abroad is
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: essentially a retirement for them, not so much Monger in
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: fighting a Nuku necessarily in Frazell but some of those
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: players they're basically retiring by going abroad and probably wouldn't
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: be eligible for the All Blacks. Again, I think there's
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: five or six that you can potentially put into twenty three.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: You know, if you're able to bring say a Retallic
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: off the bench and Aaron Smith off the bench, will
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: make things like that possible, lestifying and Nookie maybe off
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: the bench, you know, it enhances the twenty three. I
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: would be in favor of a hard cap, whether it's
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: seventy tests or something like that. And I don't know
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: that it would actually make Richie Monger eligible, but I
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: think that's something that they do need to look at.
• 26:17
  Speaker 5: And I think that day is approaching pretty quickly.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I think for the spring Boxley it's actually been the
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: reason why they are as good as they are. It
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: was long seen as a detriment bringing players in from
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: right around the globe, but such as their team culture
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: that Russia Rasmus is built, that it doesn't seem to matter.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Have come again from all points of the globe, playing
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: all sorts of different competitions Japan, France, England, et cetera,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: that they.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: All come together.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: So I think the day is coming faster than perhaps
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: has been anticipated.
• 26:50
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Look, I think there's always a discussion to be had
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: around flexibility and caps, but there's counterpoints for everything, is it?
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: So you bring a Brodie Retallic back and that potentially
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: compromises to proudvised development and game time. So at what
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: point are we looking ahead, are for the future, and
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: what point are we living in the now? I think
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: the owners has to be on Scott Robertson to develop
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: the next generation of players and bring them through, and
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: maybe some of them aren't ready yet, but they will
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: benefit from these experiences. So I think I'd give you
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Rich and Wonger, Shannon Frazelle at a pinch, Lester Fine,
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: and Nuku. Yes, it would be nice to have Aaron Smith,
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: but then Cortiers Latimer is not developing, he's not getting
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: the game time and then that experience. So I'm in
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: favor of keeping things how they are for now. But
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: I agree it should be an open debate. But it's
• 27:42
  Speaker 3: not the quick, fixed solution that some people painted out
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: to be either.
• 27:46
  Speaker 5: I mean number three in the final four more confirmation.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you can have more confirmation, but
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: it's continuing to build. Put it that way around. These
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: tours from twenty twenty six look a great idea. It's
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: going to be great for rugby. Just being here the
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: last couple of weeks and getting a sense of it.
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: If come back in a couple of years time for
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: a full with tour matches is going to be pretty
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: pretty special. So we knew this was happening. It's not
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: been officially confirmed yet, but all signs points it to yes,
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: and my understanding is that we could even have an
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: announcement perhaps by the time the all Black sleeve this
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: year's end of year tour.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, a very real bucket list item. I think it's
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: two months, eight weeks. What a tour to be a
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: part of. If you've never been to South Africa before.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: It's an amazing country, beautiful landscapes, great people, food, wine,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: the works, and then the rugby is the absolute cherry.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: On top three tests, multiple games against provincial teams, it
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: will just be an amazing occasion. So the trade off,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: of course is what's going to happen around the Rugby Championship,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: which I think is still a bit of a discussion about,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: and it does seem like all signs point to a
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: bit of a compromise with Australia around the ANZACT Test, which.
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: Clearly Australia value the All Blacks.
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: That's their biggest commodity in terms of revenue, in terms
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: of their their home tests. So uzel and Rugby is
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: going to have to throw them a bone and it
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: looks like it will be that probably for twenty twenty six.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Yes indeed, although yeah, I'm not entirely convinced it's going
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: to happen. I kind of felt to me seeing that
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: story in the press, it felt like Australia Rugby, Australia
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: is trying to get some headlines and not wanting to
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: be left behind. I think that's a little bit of
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: water to go on the bridge is yet till that
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: gets signed off.
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: I mean it would disrupt Super Rugby.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: They've been told on this podcast around various things around
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Super Rugby and disrupting that and taking the best players
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: out and ANZAC test would do that. So I think
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: tread pretty carefully would be my message around that and
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: whether it's actually the right thing for both the Bleedersloe Carpitals,
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Super Rugby taking those players out of Super Rugby for
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: a week or two and playing that Anzact Test and
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: Perth surrounding it obviously with the super rounders as part
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: of the reporting as well, So I'm not sold on
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the idea necessarily. I can see why Stratie wants to
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: do it, and it day's pretty crowded over there, as
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: it is in certain markets around the NRAL and AFL.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: So mark me down as unconvinced on that ANZAC Day
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: Test match possibility.
• 30:31
  Speaker 5: And topic number four Lamb.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: The Shield era ends for Hawks Bay and a new
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: one begins for Tasmin Muckel for the first time. That
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: was a cracking match. It was listening to it on
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: the radio commentary on gold Sport. It was a game
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of twists and turns a Tasman League comfortably at halftime
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: Hawks back flod their way back in and got their
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: noses back in front to look like that hold the
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: shield and then a fifty minute of penalty to win it.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And they couldn't do it in party time in Nelson
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: and Marlborough.
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Indeed, our colleague Clay Wilson has been partying for days.
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: I don't think he actually has, but he's a proud
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Marble boy. And they won the Shield many moons ago
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: and he's actually from Blenham. I should get that right.
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: But yeah, like a massive occasion for Tasman. They had
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: it at Trafelga Park today and the Magpies have had
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: a great shield run. Just a word on the match itself.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: A bit of a bizarre atmosphere. The DJ was playing
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: music throughout the game. It looked like a real party
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: atmosphere in the stands, so that was a bit bizarre.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: But yeah, crazy crazy match. Ebbs and Flows. Campbell Potterpa
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: comes off the bench to kick a fifty odd meter
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: on full time to spark the celebrations for the Marco
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: and it was a bit of a weekend like that
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: for the NPC. Elliott Auckland got their first one and
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: there was some classic ship house sorry at the end
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: with one of the Auckland players wetting the ball. Bryn
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: Hall is a North Harbor scrum wet the ball with
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: a drink bottle. Bryn Hall's unhappy, he goes off to
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: change the ball, gets penalized for time wasting free kick
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: and Aukland from the free kick score the match winning try.
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: So don't let anyone tell you that being Neglie doesn't
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: pay off.
• 32:17
  Speaker 5: The Battle of the bridge always delivers.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: Great to say that the word for Canterbury as well,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: bouncing back from the horror defeat to Wellington.
• 32:24
  Speaker 5: So the Red and Blacks come back again, don't you
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: worry about that?
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: Well, let's just say I know you've had a great
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: tool bit of tough tour results wise, and we'll really
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: lift the spirits with that Wellington jersey presentation that's waiting
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: for you when you come home.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I might have to avoid coming into the office,
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: that might be wise, I think, Liam, Thank you as always.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Next how we record is going to be in Sydney
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: for the build up to the Bladerslope very much looking forward.
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: To that well, great trip, good to get over to
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: their mates across the ditch and hopefully from an all
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: back to perspective, a better result over there.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Indeed, thanks to access solutions elevating you and your business
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: to a higher level, I think to Lace and Bars English,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: we will at you next week from Sudnay on right be.
• 33:10
  Speaker 5: Direct for more from News Talk st B.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows
• 33:20
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