Latest / Table Read / Featuring: Filmspotting Podcast | Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma and The Brink of War

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Featuring: Filmspotting Podcast | Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma and The Brink of War · Table Read

• 0:21
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• 0:45
  Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: You're not interested in art?
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: Now?
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: No, Look, we're going to do this thing.
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: We're going to have a.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Conversation from Chicago.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: This is film Spotting. I'm Adam Kempinard and I'm Josh Larson.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Out here. There are certain knots when you just get
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: this feeling. There's some socko killers. It'll jump you up
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: at t Abili a little basis, I want that feeling.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Director Jane Schoenbrun may be flying under some people's radars,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: but there quickly become one of the most exciting filmmakers
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: of their generation. The New Teenage Sex and Death at
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: Camp Miasma is the director's follow up to twenty twenty
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: four As I Saw the TV Glow.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: We've got a review plus the new The Brink of
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: War starring Jeff Daniels. Betton Moore ahead on Film Spotting.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Film Spotting, Josh. We're talking about Jane Schoenbrun
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: this week. They made We're All Going to the World's
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Fair in twenty twenty two. That was a Golden Brick
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: nominee for us. Then in twenty twenty four, I saw
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: The TV Glow that made your top ten list. It
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: was a movie I recommended as well. Now they've made
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Teenage Sex and Death at Camp and The Asthma. If
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: my math is correct and I'm not great at math,
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: that means it's their third film that's prompted our pure question.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: That's freaky. Thank you your math.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: The new deeply flawed Film Spotting poll is asking about
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: other third features that have come out this decade.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I think it's a fun one. Yeah, we'll get into
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: those options. I was just looking at the list Sam
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: put together. I realized, Man, we've got some great filmmakers
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: of and not even up and coming to anymore, but
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: a younger generation putting things out and kind of made
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: me excited about where we're at, where cinema is at.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: So look forward to talking about where we would vote
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: in that poll and giving those options to listeners.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I think I know where people are going to vote,
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: but Film Spotting listeners always surprise us. Also later in
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: the show, I Caught up with The New Brink of War,
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: starring Jeff Daniels as Ronald Reagan in that Cold War
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: era drama. A reminder, Film Spotting is now available as
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: a video podcast. You can watch us over at YouTube
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: dot com slash film Spotting Up now. Teenage Sex and
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Death at Campnyasma. I'm Billy Presley. He must be the
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: writer director. Yeah, Hi, you came out of nowhere. I
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: didn't know you were in here. I'm sorry I saw
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: you and I wanted to scare you.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Not too long into Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasthma,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: former screen queen Billy Presley played by Gillian Anderson, patiently
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: listens to a treatise from Chris, a young film director
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: played by Hannah Einbender. Chris talks at length about the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: real meaning of the original Camp Miasthma slasher that Billy
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: starred in, and how Chris plans to deconstruct that nineteen
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: eighty three film with her planned reboot. Chris explains, quote,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: my work explores the intersection of queerness and cultural depictions
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: of monstrosity. Billy matter of factly responds that the first
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Can't Miasthma movie was about little more than quote flesh
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: and fluids. What does our pop culture mean to us? Adam?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: This is a question that appears to mesmerize Jane Schonbron,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: the writer and director of Teenage Sex and Death at
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Cam't Miasma, and with this third feature now one of
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: the defining voices in American cinema working today, to my mind.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: In schoon Brun's debut We're All Going to the World's Fair,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: the teen protagonist gives herself over to an online horror game.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Something comparable happens in I Saw the TV Glow, where
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: a pair of unlikely friends bond over a cheapo sci
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: fi TV series until it swallows them whole. In Teenage
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Sex and Death at Can't Miasma, Chris, the young director,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: thinks she has a handle on the handle that the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Miasma slasher series has on her. But while I'll staying
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: with the reclusive Billy Presley over a few days on
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: her remote Pacific Northwest state, Chris begins to realize that
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: her relationship to Slashers, cinema and sex is much more
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: complicated than the intellectualization. She has confidently offered not to
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: sound too much like Chris and make this academic, Adam,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: because camp Miasma is a ton of fun, which I'm
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: sure we'll get into. I do want to start with
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: a larger question about shown Brun's work. Thus, far from
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: online horror to sci fi TV, now to Slashers, what
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: do Shoon bruns films suggest about contemporary popular culture and
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: our relationship to it? And how do you see teenage
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: sex and death at can't Miasma fitting into that? Oh?
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Man, you are starting off difficult, going into professor mode
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: right off the bat.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: You're limited, You're limited to five hundred words. Okay, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: to tell you that. Great? What is this say?
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: We like to watch, we like to watch ourselves. We
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: like to be naughty, but we can't admit it because
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: flesh and fluids make us uncomfortable. You could go with,
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: you could go with, our lives are completely mediated through screens.
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: That's fairly pedestrian, but that's there as well. I don't
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: know if any of that's what you had in mind
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: or particularly insightful, but I am. I am fascinated that
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: you posed that question, because while I think it's fertile
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: my processing of this film in the moment and in
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: the aftermath, I guess I'm gonna dodge here a little bit.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: But truthfully, it has little to do with culture. I
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: think I'm going to get into it deep enough for
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: your liking, Josh here over the course of this conversation. Okay,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: so bear with me, but it does have little to
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: do with culture. Looking back at my notes, that also
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: isn't really how I processed. I saw the TV glow either,
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: whereas the main character's online immersion and the blurring of
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: fantasy and reality and we're all going to the World's Fair,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: that did seem more ripe for extrapolation in interpretation. And
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: maybe part of that was simply that we didn't have
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: any relationship to Shoon Brun's work at the time, and
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: now over three films, we feel like we do. But
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I saw cam't Miasma through a personal lens, and I'll
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: go inside out. I saw through the lens of Einbinder's
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: queer filmmaker Chris coming to terms with their sexuality. I
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: saw it through the lens of Showen Brun as a
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: trans filmmaker and a trans filmmaker in Hollywood, and I
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: SAWT through my lens as an individual viewer. Whatever resonance
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Chris's journey and potentially shown Bruns has for me, I
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: think the depiction of Chris's journey is so specific that
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: it will resonate with a lot of viewers, whether they're
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: of course in Hollywood, or filmmakers or their queer It
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: doesn't matter. You don't have to have anything directly in
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: common with her or not. That's how specific this film is.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: And I do want to say this too generally. Metacritic
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: lists this movie the genres as drama, horror, romance, and thriller.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I might take issue with thriller a little bit, but
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: otherwise it's accurate. On IMDb they have the same four,
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: but they also have first slasher horror and here and there.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: On the internet, others just refer to this movie as
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: slasher horror or a slasher film. Yeah, nobody listen as
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: a comedy, even though this is I think a deeply
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: funny movie and it alsoys. Yeah, and it's also the
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: first movie I watched this year that I immediately wanted
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: to to sit down and watch again, because there's enough
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: mystery in it to reward another viewing, but also I'm
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: going to agree with you, but also because it's just
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: so damn much fun. Any movie that combines Sunset Boulevard
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: well first Texas Chainsaw Massacre with Friday the Thirteenth and
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the Shining and Sunset Boulevard and infuses all of that
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: with a lynching in sensibility has to be and it
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: does all of that. But what's the key is that
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: it does all of that and has shown bruns distinct.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Point of view. Mm hm.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: When we talk about I was thinking, I was thinking
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: about this is this is where all my notes led me,
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: and I wonder if you agree when we talk about
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: and we do all critics do this. When we talk
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: about an emerging filmmaker, someone with just a few films
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: under their belt and they're maturing as a filmmaker or
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: you know, if they're director or a writer director, aren't
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: we almost invariably talking about that development only in terms
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: of craft, higher production value, even more intentionality in their
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: camera work and editing, maybe being even more innovative, more experimental,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: better control of tone, drawing out more refined performances. All
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: of that is true for me here. But what makes
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Teenage Sex and Death so exciting is that Schoenbrun's evolution
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: as a filmmaker seems to be unfolding in tandem with
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: a deeper realization of self. That's what I see in
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: the progression from World's Fair to cam't Miasma. And that's
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: what I'll try to unpack a little bit here as
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: we get through the conversation. But that's my reaction.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: To this film.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Where you with this movie and do you have a
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: grand take in terms of culture with camp mi.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: Asthma, I think that's fair. I think it's you know,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I think we see that in terms of a sense
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: of self with other filmmakers, but shown to Run's material
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: is so directly tied to their own experience that it's
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: at the forefront. And to its credit, this is the
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: opposite of navel gazing, because it is speaking from a
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: personal place in a way that resonates beyond anyone who's
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: coming from a trans experience. Honestly, we talked about this
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: with I Saw the TV Glow, which was you know,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: a more clear, parable allegory, whatever term you want to use.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Yet the two of us found it deeply moving and affecting,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: so I think that's true in terms of an emerging filmmaker.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: This is why it's so exciting is because there is
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: that control of the exploration of personal interests and themes.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: It's so funny what you say about how to what
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: genre to place this in. Now I'm in knots because
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I stupidly when I designed my website a genre tag
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: that I have to give and it's only bedevil to
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: me since and I have no idea what I'm gonna
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: do with this one. Maybe I'll disagree with you and
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: go with go with comedy. I also had a note
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: early on Adam that I abandoned while watching this movie.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I think it was when Chris goes to check in
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: at the hotel and we get her conversation with the
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: clerk who mentions how he had a part in earlier
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: Can't Miasthma movie and it starts to feel a little unnerving,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and I thought, and I just wrote down will this
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: work as a horror movie? I threw out that question
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: twenty minutes later because it no longer mattered to me.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: It's just it's writing its own rules every day minutes
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: they're different.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: Rules, and that's so pertinent and applicable to the film
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: as a whole once you've seen it, isn't it?
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: Absolutely so, it didn't even matter to me whether it
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: was working as a horror movie after a certain point,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: even though there's some scary moments, sure yeah, more or
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: funny moments. I won't belabor the you know, what does
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: pop culture mean to us? Point? If it's you know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: not quite as interesting to you. I think for me
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: it does relate, however, to what you're saying about this
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: being a personal movie, and I think one of the
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: things schon Brun is working through who seems to have
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: experienced much of life via pop culture. This may be
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: the only way I would compare them to Quentin Tarantino,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: because I think they are world's apart in so many
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: crucial ways. But you do get the sense from most
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: of Tarantino's movies that this is someone who's only lived movies. Really,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: I would not say that you get the sense schoon
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Brun has only lived pop culture. But these three movies
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: do suggest to me that trying to figure out how
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you are who you are, I should say, has been
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: mediated for schon as it is for many people through
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: online horror games, through crappy TV series, Beloved, Beloved It Now,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: cinema here right and now, and specifically Slashers Right and
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: so I would say, what does our pop culture mean
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: to us? For schoon Brun the filmmaker, at least, it
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: means everything. It is. It is not how we pass
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: the time. It is not what we do for entertainment.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: It is not just part of modern life. Pop culture
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: is life. And I think what's interesting and has and
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: I think there's a distinction with Camp Miasma from their
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: previous two films. How do we feel about that? How
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: do we feel about you know, where does that lead us?
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: As I suggested in my setup, maybe not to the
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: greatest places for the characters in the previous two films.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: I think we're seeing something different here. There's a little
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: bit of there's a bit more confidence in having mediated
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: your existence through pop culture, which for many people may
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: not be a choice. This may be just how you've
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: grown up, and so what do you do with that reality?
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: What I'll say with this movie is shoon Broun has
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: made of it. At this point mid August, the best
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: film of twenty twenty.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: Six I'm a little bit dismayed to say that I
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: agree with you, even though we haven't had a case
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: where we've had the same number one film since the
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: year you joined the show, and you hadn't even officially
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: joined the show at that point, I think twenty eleven,
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: when we both put the Tree of Life there, I'll see,
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: we'll see if this holds, but we haven't.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: It is one other one.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: No, we had a number two. We've definitely shared a
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: number two, I think. But I'm with you at this point.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: It's my favorite film of the year by far, and
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I am going to try to dig into this a
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: little bit further. But what you're saying about media and
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: the way shown run through these films, what what they
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: seem to be expressing, how their lives are mediated through
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: this this imagery and through pop culture. It's seeing here.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Here's Here's what I'm I'm taking from it is that
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: it's seeing yourself reflected. But the thing is, it's not
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: that simple. Self is very complicated self. Seeing yourself reflected
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: doesn't mean the type of characteristics that you might immediately
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: think of. It doesn't mean demigraphic information, right, It doesn't
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: mean things you would fill out on a form or
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: even necessarily behavioral information. During our I Saw the TV
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: Glow conversation, I talked about out this liminal space that's
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: created when you have a character who is seeing themselves
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: caught in this in between between the person they are
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: on this side of the TV and the person they
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: see themselves as they see themselves as on this side
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: of the TV. And there's this space in between which
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: you can equate to that transitioning experience if you want
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: to read it that way. So that's that's the seeing yourself,
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: and I think you can you can look at We're
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: All going to the World's Fair similarly, so self is complicated,
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: but it's seeing yourself reflected, and it's through these three
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: films seeing that self reflected in different forms of media,
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: but also seeing yourself at different points in your life
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: and at different points in your journey in terms of
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: your identity. So of course you're going to have different
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: experiences with that media. Regardless of the media and how
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: it's different, You're coming at it very differently because you're
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a different person at this point. So I've mentioned Lynch.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: I always mentioned Lynch when I talk about showen Brun's
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: work Showan Brunn, I'm pretty sure has been on record
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: saying Lynch was an influence. There's often a dream logic
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: to these movies, and I watched them and feel that,
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: as well constructed as they are, the way you put
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: it earlier was great. I have something similar in my notes.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: It's like someone's unconscious thoughts are being created before our eyes.
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: When I was setting up for you, I saw the
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: TV glow. I referenced constant notion of free play, this
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: idea that I think applies even more here Josh. He says,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: beautiful art, music and ideas offer a kind of cognitive tease.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: They dangle the promise of comprehension, but never provide the
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: full satisfaction of getting it. That's the best description of
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: that that I've ever come across. And I don't think
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: that there's getting cam't miasthma, but I'd argue it's also
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: very straightforward, and Schoenbrun isn't shy about expressing themes and
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: key ideas directly in the text. I didn't take French
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: in high school, so I didn't immediately understand why the
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: slasher was called what the slasher was called. It took
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: the scene in the van from the movie within the
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: movie for me to start to piece together where I
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: thought the movie was going before. Then Chris verbalizes it later,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: and then I retrofitted. I'll give myself a little credit.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: I retrofitted the slasher's name without knowing the French aphorism,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: because it's such an odd name, and frankly, it just
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: made sense to me, this idea of Little Death la
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: petite more the little death. This is a movie about
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: a woman coming to terms with her mind and body
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: and sex and how repressed she has been. So I'll
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: go back to the cultural connection, I suppose, Josh, and
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: give you a little bit more. It is about how
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: through this individual lens, it is about how we treat
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: sex and how how distancing or how how we like
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: to distance ourselves from thinking about flesh and fluids, how
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: we're not prepared to reveal our true selves to others,
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: especially our desires, especially if our desires are remotely, remotely taboo.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I think that's what I think. That's what Shoon brun
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Is is exploring here. That's how it resonated with me.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: She's thinking about feel like losing your virginity now, I.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Mean, this is a slash reflick that doubles as sex therapy.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: That's what's going on here. I don't know if there's
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: a genre category for that, but that's absolutely what's going on.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: And you're right, it's you know, little death. The killer
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: in this slasher series is an early signal of that.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think Shan Brunn is being coy about this
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: at all. We have repeated returns to the central sequence
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: from the very first Camp Miasthma film, which is familiar
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: to anyone who's seen A Friday the thirteenth movie, which
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: is where the young character played by Billy is having
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: sex with an older boy and the killer comes into
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: the room and we see in her eye the reflection
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: of the killer about to strike, and so so this
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: is the key to the whole movie. But we see
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: it multiple times and it's it's I would say, also
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: pretty clear the first time we see it, even though
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: it's cut before the scene ends. The correlation that Schonbrun
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: is making here between sex and death, right, I mean
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: this movie. When we did our preview, I said it
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: was catnip for me because in my horror book I
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: have a chapter sex and Death. This is a subgenre
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: of horror. And one of the exciting things about Can't
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Miasma for Me is how it's moving that conversation forward
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: from you know, Friday thirteenth, even a much better movie
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: like Halloween, even my beloved Nightmare on Elm Street. They
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: deal in this puritanical notion of titillate the audience but
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: then also punish the characters so the audience can be
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: conscious free right at the end. So it's this bizarre,
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: messed up the These are the sort of things that
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: mess people up when they see him too young, which
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: is something Chris actually says in the movie. What is
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: a movie like Friday thirteenth communicating is that sex is
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: exciting and bad, right, and you're going to die for it.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: That's messed up. And so this is a movie that's
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: moving the conversation forward. I've argued, as we did recently
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: for film Spotting family Members in a bonus episode, that
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: something like it follows from about ten years ago similarly
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: moved that conversation forward an interesting way. Here we have
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: it much more personal. Though, to go to your point
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: about shown Brun's filmmaking style, this is processing the sort
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: of whether it's repression, whether it's personal hang ups, whether
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: it's societal pressure, whether it's moralizing that sex is supposed
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: to be a gift and is a really messed up
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: thing for human beings because of our frailties and all
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: sorts of reasons, right, and so this is an entirely
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: specific working through of a hang up that you might
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: describe as perverse in some ways how Chris gets to
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: where she gets to at the end of the film,
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: but that's because it's so personally specific. At the same time,
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: going back to TV glow, it can be opened up
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: to interpretation for everyone's trying to wrap their mind around
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: what sex means for them, which is also an incredible
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: accomplishment for this movie to be able to open itself
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: up that wide as well. So, yeah, I think I
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: was hoping this is where this movie was going to go,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: and it delivered on that in so many ways. I
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: think to get into more specifics would reveal spoilers that
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: we probably don't want to do. So I don't know,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: maybe now can we start talking about how fun the
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: movie is? Well, I said, yeah.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I don't know that we need need to necessarily dig
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: into this part any further, but I suppose I at
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: least want to make my case a little more substantially
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: and say that I only have minimal knowledge of Shoon
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Brun's bio, but having now reviewed three films, you pick
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: up on a few things over the years, and when
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: you look at the progression of these three films, Josh,
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: We're all going to the World's Fair, you have a
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: character who is overwhelmed by a feeling of alienation, of confusion,
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: of unease. I believe Shoon Brun at that point had
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: not transitioned with I saw the TV Glow, which we mentioned.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: I said, a movie I read is attempting to reckon
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: with having just transitioned or making that decision showon. Brun
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: had at that point just just gone through that. Here
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: we are now a few years later for the first time.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: Perhaps you feel like you you know exactly who you are,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean you're fully equipped for all the
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: experiences that now you're going to have, or that you're
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: you're free enough to try things that you haven't tried before,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: or try things that perhaps you were you were deeply
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable with previously. And are you willing to go to
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: those scary places?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: How do you?
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: How do you get to that, how do you how
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: do you now progress to that? So I'm already thinking
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: about what what Showan Brun's fourth film might be like,
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: right as as show and Brun starts to continue this evolution,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: and it brings me back to I saw the TV
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: glow in the intertextuality here the way these movies connect
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: because in my notes I mentioned how the character Owen
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: this is what I was alluding to earlier, the different
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: self at different points. Owen rewatches the Pink Opaque on
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: streaming the pilot for the first time in years, and
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: it's different than he remembered, right, because that character is
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: now different. It's not just that five years have gone by.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: That character has undergone a transformation. And here in this
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: film too, remember what Chris says when she rewatches the
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Can't Miasthma film for the first time. She says, I
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: saw it like I had never seen it before. And
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: there may be lots of reasons why she sees it
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: that way, but part of that is I think you
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: can suggest that she maybe hadn't actually watched that first
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: film since she was a little girl. Those flashback shots
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: that we see of her watching when she's a little kid, right,
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: and she obviously is a little girl who is not out,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: and she is now out as a queer woman, watching
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: it through completely different through completely different eyes, So of
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: course she's seeing it a different way. So I think
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: you can you can make potentially those parallels to to
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: shown Brun's life as well. That's that is at least
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: how I'm how I'm seeing the film. Now we can transition,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: no pun intended, into whatever fun stuff you'd like to
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: talk about, because there is so much here.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, you mentioned the horror references. We've just got
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: a list, at least the ones we caught, right, We've
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: already we've already name checked Halloween, Friday, Thirteenth Night, Mari
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and elm Street. I think you mentioned the Shining Video Drome,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: a couple of visual video drome touches, Sure Texas, Chainsaw.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Mas Jed with all the blood spurting.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Ded two. That's part of the comedy, right, It's horror
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: comedy actually in a lot of ways. In the in
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: the actual like kill scenes, Shon Brun is pushing it
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: towards that direction, the comedy direction, m Night, Shyamalan's the Visit,
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: and Yeah, Sunset Boulevard, sure, let's call it a horror film.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Why not. Here's the point about all those references, though, Adam,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: none of them are lazy, none of them are intrusive.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: They're just living in this movie's blood. It's almost like
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: they have to be there.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: Not that.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: Chon Bron wanted them there or worse, the audience expected
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: them there. They're just embedded in what this movie is
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: obsessing over and trying to wrap its own mind around.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: And so while, as you know, a horror ficionado, I
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: love them, I think the reason I don't roll my
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: eyes at any of them is because they're so intricately
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: interwoven into what the movie is trying to do. And yeah,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: beyond the references, it's it's just the moment. I don't
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: even know if I want to talk about this because
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: it's probably gonna be and it sounds like if you're
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: this high in the movie too, maybe a joint music
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: moment of the year.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: Music moment of the year. I don't know how it gets.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: Shall we save it? And I don't know, let's just
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: plant a flag and say counting crows?
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Counting crows? I mean, look, Shoan brun had me at
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: counting crows once the piano started, I didn't even need.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: To see that.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: It's that, it's a one that it's one take that
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: that everything about that scene, how how meticulously crafted that
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: sequence is, How how glorious that that is. It's it's
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: not only a music moment of the year, it's a
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: scene of the year, candidate. It's it is and and
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: and it's it's playing on so many levels, Josh, and
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: maybe you can help me this. This gets back to
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: what I was saying about, how can't Miasthma is a
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: film that I think is immediately easy to get and
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: at the same time you can watch it ten times
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: and never full get it because it is a work
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: of subconscious it is. It is a work where you
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: feel like the filmmaker within the film, Chris, and the
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: filmmaker without the film, the filmmaker outside the movie is
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: willing to put whatever is emanating from their mind, from
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: their subconscious onto the screen and not overthink that, including
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: those some of those references which they don't have.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: To be now.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe later they interrogate it and understand exactly where it
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: came from. But like so many of us who do
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: view the world through cinema, people like me. Who when
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: I hear certain words and phrases, as I've said before,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: I say them in the vernacular or in the exact
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: same the exact same way I pronounce it, the same
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: way as certain characters. That makes exact, exact sense to me.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: But here's a sequence. Tell me if I'm wrong. Here's
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: a sequence that uses a song from nineteen ninety six. Yeah,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: non diegetically in it wouldn't have been around.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: You're in a movie that.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: That, by my guess, would have been made at least
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: twenty years earlier. Fifteen to twenty years earlier.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: I tried to find this out. I think it's supposed
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: to be released in eighty three. Okay, so I had
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: this same thing.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: It's thirteen to fifteen years earlier. It's completely anachronistic. It
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: is clear to us as audience members that it's non diegetic,
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: meaning Jane Schoenbrun has decided to put place that song
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: over the soundtrack. It is not coming from the party
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: that is happening on screen.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: However could it, nor could it be coming from the
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: original Camp Miasma movie. That's what I'm saying.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: There's no way because it's anachronistic and it could not
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: be happening in that party. However, did you notice what
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: happens at the end of that party scene? The last shot,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: I believe is a shot of a radio and I'm
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: waiting for it, and sure enough, as soon as the
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: radio tips and hits the floor, the song stops, which
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: is a little tease that perhaps it is diegetic even
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: though we know it's not, and it couldn't be playing
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: because it doesn't exist yet, so exactly that's Those are
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the types of enigmas that you have, the myriad enigmas
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: you have in this film, and it it doesn't matter
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: because it's just such a delight.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: Or it might correct, but it also might matter to
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: your point on a second viewing in a way you
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: have we have to like dig into yet. I don't
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: know if we can tease a show coming up in
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: five months, but our rap party with these categories seen
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the Year, music, moment of the Year, we'll we'll get
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: back into this because I think we have different feelings
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: about counting Crow's late December, the song.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Along December, Josh, how dare you put some sect, put
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: some respect on Adam Durretz's name.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: This that's speaks to my point the fact that I get.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: The name right, look this up and just just to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: be totally sure, I wanted to know this coming in
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: because I had a feeling you were not an appreciator,
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Jane Shoon Bruns not being ironic, Jane Shoon Bruns a fan,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: which makes me like Jane shon Burn as a filmmaker
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: even more.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna have a good We're gonna have a
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: good conversation about this in January. Anyway. The fun thing
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: I want to highlight beyond that amazing sequence is the
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: opening credits, because incredible to out to lay out over
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: the credits the entire life cycle of a legacy horror
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: property that is Camp Miasma, Yes, with all of the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: trinkets and the lore and you know Miasma three D
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: we see came out, so the mania of the first
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: few years, the dregs of those desperate down years when
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: nobody cares about the franchise, and then bringing us all
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: the way up to you know, Chris, the main character
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: coming back to try to revive the franchise. Just so
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: brilliantly done in terms of setting the context and a
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: ton of fun. And I have been listening today to okay,
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: and it's new to me, so I hope I'm pronouncing
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: this right. Okay Kaya who sings a cover of RIM's
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: Night swimming over this. Yeah, here's a point I want
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: to raise which we've not talked about yet. We've touched
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: on it, Yeah, in the comments you've made, it's it's
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: sort of you know, intrinsic to it. There is such
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: a deep vulnerability being shared in this movie, and the
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: choice of that song to me, sets the stage for it.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: This is a song that you know, had, you know,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: meant a ton to me over the years.
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Isn't that fundamentally what that song's about. I just to
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: be vulnerable, absolutely, and so to choose it. But but
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: you know, to choose this okay Kaya cover, which is
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: one of those covers that is complete the song for
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a song that I revere and would never have thought
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I needed another version of that just adds to it
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: rather than just using the song itself, and to juxtapose
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: it with these fun, entertaining elements of camp miasma lore
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: I think tells us like there's something deeply personal that's
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: going to be shared in this movie. While we're gonna
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: have a ton of fun.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: I just that'll That credit sequence is just out of
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: this world.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I was sure this is going to be one of
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: my favorite films of the year at the end of
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: the credit sequence and then the along December sequence just
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: cemented it for me. It's kind of.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Like one of those instances where you're like, oh, man,
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: just don't screw it up from here.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: No, you're right, because it is. It is just such
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: good storytelling. It is here again, so specific, so clearly
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: made by someone who understands and loves these films and
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: understands what's problematic about these films and understands why they
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: feel the way they do about these movies, or is
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: still trying to investigate why they feel the way they
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: do about these movies. And it's done, it's rendered in
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: such an artistic way. And to get I didn't count
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: the minutes how long that song is, but to get
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: in that three or four minute span the entire arc
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: of the camp Miasthma series to cover three decades at
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: least and have it all make perfect sense.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, is really a feat. Now.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this would get you into trouble, Josh,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: but the song I've been listening to NonStop, I already
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: have a long December on shuffle. But the song I've
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: been listening to NonStop is is the tune by Andy
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Schoff Satan. I've been listening to Satan NonStop. What a
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: great song, What a great song that is. So I
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: want to give you a few quick hits. Did you
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: notice who the performer is playing the DJ? Oh yeah,
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Eva Victor so great. So this one might be a
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: bit of a stretch. It's either a stretch or it's
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: completely obvious.
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: But Little Death's mask I think in that opening credit
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: sequence the media even refers to him as air vent man.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: That's effectively what he is. He's wearing an air vent
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: on his head. And it makes total sense going back
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: to how you were describing the scene that we've seen
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: in all these horror films. If if a woman, it's
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: always a woman, a young woman is having sex and usually,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: as is the case here, is disassociating and staring off
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: at the ceiling they're seeing. They could be seeing an
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: air vent. So this is the sex and death connection here.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: So the air vent is what Little Death is wearing.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: But there are times there, at least two times in
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: the movie. I also thought Shoon Run was making, and
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: this would make sense if they were was making an
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: explicit connection between the way the air vent looks. I
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: don't know how to describe what makes an air vent
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: look like an air vent, but everyone can picture one
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: as I'm talking about it, and the lenses of a
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: projector yes, how they have right that same Sure you
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: see that a couple times in the film, like.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: A very old almost a.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Very old original yes, oh exactly, yes, original cameras. You
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: see that a couple times in the film. I loved
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: that connection, or at least what I what I thought
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: was was a connection going back to the personal journey
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: and potentially the personal journey of a filmmaker in Hollywood,
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: of a trans filmmaker in Hollywood. Whether it's exactly true
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: or not, the touch here because it just seems so true.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: It seems like it has to be true, Josh, the
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: touch that and I think I think both we haven't
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: mentioned it, but Jillian Anderson and Hannah iin Binder here
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: are both fantastic.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I think Ben there is I don't know if we'll
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: have time in this review. We might have to save
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: that to go into how good she is and why.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: Yes, she as a filmmaker describes. I think she's describing
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: to Billy that the reason she understands that the reason
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: she got picked to do this series is just because
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: it's all about IP and they picked her only because
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: she's queer, and so that basically gives the studio some
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: padding with the media and fans because they're reviving a
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: misogynistic and problematic, transphobic series. But all they care about
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: is the IP and so if they have, if they
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: have a queer filmmaker, they can trot that out there
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: and say, well, they're they're doing it for us, So
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: they're gonna they're gonna set everything right. See, we know
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: what we're doing and we're being sensitive to all of
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: that r But after they do that, after they bring
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: it back, after they revive it, they can do whatever
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: they want with it. And the money, of course, is
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: the objective. You have to imagine that showan brun has
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: been approached, offered, has been offered something like that, and
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: so I found that very intriguing.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: Chriss Zoom meeting with the studio.
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: Meeting is another is something in this film, and.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: That's a great performance scene for Ian Bend too, just
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: just like diving right into our artistic delusion and her pitch.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: Did you notice too that that air vent imagery is
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: something that pops up in other places, like it Billy's house,
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: in the background of the.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Oliver pa it's there.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: The last thing I'll mention, and I'm not going to
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: say it because it's going to be a nominee for
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: me for funniest moment of the year is there is
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: a scene where they're watching the original camp Miasma and
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: Hannah being the ultimate film geek when a shot occurs
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: on screen.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know where you're going.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it says out loud to Billy exactly what kind
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: of shot it was. And I was watching it with
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: Sophie and I didn't say it out loud.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: Which one of you did it? Which one of you
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: did it?
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: So Sophie wasn't familiar with that shot. After she said it,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: and I died laughing because I was thinking it. I
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: paused it and Sophie said, so, what's that? And I
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: explained it to her. I said, so, see how this
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: is occurring there on screen?
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: I was imagining. The two of you turned to each
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: other and, like in a sitcom, said it at the
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: same time.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: No, No, it ended up being a nice teachable, teachable
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: film moment. But but I'm thinking it. I'm sure lots
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: of film geeks are thinking it, and film geeks could
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: be annoying as hell watching movies, and she's annoying as
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: hell watching that movie in that moment, she just cannot
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: help herself. And and even better though, Josh is it's
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: not just that she says it, it's show brun capturing
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: Billy's reaction.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: To her saying it.
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Billy's just like, you know, just this this face
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: that couldn't be less interested and in her saying that,
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: and knew it was coming too at right, So nice,
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: nice visual callback to that later in the film too. Yeah,
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: is there anything else at this point we need to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: come in with this movie?
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: There's a ton, There's a ton, But it sounds like
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: we're both so enthusiastic that it's it's gonna be coming
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: up again on I'll just say this about Einbnder because
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: I don't want to, you know, entirely leave the performances
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: to the wayside. It is a performance that grows in
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: complication and revelation in a lot of ways. I guess
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: what I would say is I had no idea. And
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: part of this is the script, but it's also in
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: the performance that the character I thought I knew in
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: the first half hour is who I would come to
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: know by the end. And I think Einbender is you
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: know absolutely, you know. Do praise for the way she's
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: able to negotiate that while also while also being quite
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: funny in a lot of scenes. As we've detailed.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: Yes she doesn't. Of course it's in the writing too,
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: but I'm with you that there isn't ever a sense
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: of resorting to cliche or going to going to caricature
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: of even though I just described a scene that film
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: geeks do, the total of that performance.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: She's never caring.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a total character and she's never relying on cliche.
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: And it is a it is quite a complex performance.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Teenage Sex and Death at Camp Miasma, currently playing in
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: limited release. Tell me this, Josh, why would they go?
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Why would kids go to a camp called camp Miasthma?
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Didn't they look up what mi asthma means? I looked
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: it up. It's not good?
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: What a what a great word for just sort of
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: the filmmaking that Showan Brun does honestly, and yeah, you
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: wouldn't You would not catch me at camp Miasthma.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: No, it's currently playing in limited release. If you see
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: it and agree or disagree with our thoughts, you can
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: email us feedback at film spotting dot net. We may
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: highlight these at the end of the show, Josh, but
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: a few films worth catching on the big screen this
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: weekend if you have a chance, and if you're a
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: Regal Unlimited member, you just might get to see them
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: for free, including the big release the End of Oak
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Street from David Robert Mitchell. We'll talk about that next
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: week on the show. Seems to be a bit of
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: spectacle to that one that might lend itself to the
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: big screen. But how about Wet Hot American Summer. Sure
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: we caught that on the theater recently, but being released
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: for its twenty fifth anniversary. I wouldn't mind seeing that
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: again with an audience. And this one maybe a bit
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: of a surprising choice. Josh I shared something about it
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: in the Film Spotting slack over the weekend. We have
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: pretty much ignored the movie one night only, but it's.
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: Caused quite a stir. A stir is correct.
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: It's very divisive and divisive means maybe we should be
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: talking about it. So I'm going to consider seeing it
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: this weekend, and maybe we should talk about it on
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: a future episode.
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: Again.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: Regal Unlimited gives me the chance to see one night
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: only for free Regal Unlimited All you could watch movie
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: subscription pass that pays for itself in just two visits.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: If you sign up using code film Spot twenty six,
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: you get fifteen percent off. It's the only truly limitless
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: movie subscription pass because you can see any standard two
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: D movie anytime with no blackout dates or restrictions. And
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: you don't just save money on tickets, you also save
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: on snacks. You get ten percent off all non alcoholic concessions.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Sign up now in the Regal app or at the
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: link in our description, and don't forget to use the
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: code film Spot twenty six to receive your discount.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Let's take a minute to thank the film Spotting family,
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: which honestly all of you listening should join right now
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: because you could do so for twenty percent off. This month,
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: We're having a twenty percent off sale on membership through
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: August thirty. First, you just have to use the promo
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: code Summer and you will get that deal and you
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: can join the Film Spotting family, which means you can
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: be part of the biggest source of support for the show.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Membership is the single largest source of support that we have.
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: It keeps us doing what we've been doing for over
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: twenty years. And this week we want to thank a
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: couple of family members. They would be Stephen oh Man.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: Tell me Adam Asaki this one right, That's where I
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: was going. All right, Look, Stephen Bissacia in Milford, Connecticut,
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Steven, and we also want to we also
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: want to thank Stephen Saans in Coral Springs, Florida. Thank
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: you both.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: Well, why does Sam pick two guys with the same name.
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, mass listeners can't tell that they spell Stephen differently.
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: That's not on the patch in front stir Stephen b.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Wrights.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Funnily enough, the first episode I listened to was Adam
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: and Josh diverging on the Joker. I found the discourse
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: around the film fascinating and appreciated the way you both
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: navigated the disagreement with humor and openness to differing perspectives.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: It's good we finally figured out how to do that.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I lived with the gay I think we did.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: I live for the year end reviews. It's a great
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: way to get exposed to movies that might have flown
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: under the radar under my radar. Same goes for the
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: Golden Brick Award winners and nominees. As an indie filmmaker,
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: I love that you guys take time to highlight smaller films.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Let's hear from steven S. Have been listening since the beginning.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: Adam's Love of All That Jazz, one of my all
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: time favorites, kept me coming back at first, but the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: banter and the deep dives always remind me of my
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: days in the theater department at Point Park University and
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: the Pittsburgh Playhouse discussing film and performance. I enjoy seeing
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: how often I guess what Adams and Josh's top five
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: picks will be and how they compared to my choices.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: But the one that sticks in my craw is from
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: your Top five Movie Meals episode eight seventeen. How the
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: end grilled cheese sandwich scene between John Favreau and Roy
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: Choi in Chef in Chef was not included is a travesty.
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: I haven't seen Chef?
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: Have you seen Chef? That's the thing. It's tough for
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: that to make our list when neither of us have
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: seen it. I have only caught moments of Chef on
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: HBO here and there, but I've I've never been moved
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: to watch the whole film.
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: Can I offer a tip as an apology to Steven
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: since he seems to be a connoisseur of grilled cheese
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: sandwiches as am I? What's your tip? You do it
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: in the pan right, like everybody does. And then when
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: you get the bread, just golden crisp. Sometimes depending how
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: much cheese you put in, cheese isn't, I'll melt it through.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: This is why you need a toaster oven. Pop that
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: thing in the toaster oven after grilling it for you know,
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: thirty seconds a minute, It's gonna be nice and gooy
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: inside you still have the crisp on the outside. There
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: you go, Steve and us. Do they do that in Chef?
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: Tell me if they do that?
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: Probably not a child here.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: I love it.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: We'll see what tips we get next week. Movies they
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: credit with becoming sinophile Steven b Strangely enough, the stand
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: for prison experiment. It just played at the right time
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: when I was in college, and was the right encouragement
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: for me to want to switch my major to film.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: Stephen S says Ciskel and Ebert's recommendation of Diva in
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one, the first foreign film I ever saw,
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: made me realize there were more than just genre films
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: to be seen.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Well, thank you very much, Stephen B and Steven S
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: for your support and for listening. If you'd like to
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: follow them both on letterboxed, you can follow Stephen B
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: at BISACC Steven us Is at Take one The Number
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: one Sands.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: More information about joining the Film Spotting Family is available
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: at film Spottingfamily dot com. You get access to our
• 52:11
  Speaker 2: ad free feed. You can listen to that on Apple
• 52:15
  Speaker 2: or Spotify wherever you get your podcasts. You get our
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: weekly newsletter, the Family Only Discord. You get exclusive opportunities
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: like being part of our twenties and thirties Madness. We're
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out which eight films are going to
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: be in our Super Madness next year. We do know
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: that at this point, but we don't know which film
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: is going to be crowned champion yet. Of this tournament.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: We are down to the final four. The selection committee
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: continues to be very good at seeding because the one, two, three,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: and five seeds have advanced. And in all fairness, it
• 52:52
  Speaker 2: was really a toss up between the four and five
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: seeds which one should be four. It was Stagecoach or
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: city Lights, and stage Coach got beat in this tournament.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: City Lights did advance. So we've got four incredible films.
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: And as Sam pointed out in our newsletter today, Josh
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: that went to Film Spotting family members to silence to
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: all time silence from the twenties in Sherlock Junior and
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: city Lights, Chaplain and Keaton, it makes perfect sense.
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: Together all of them still have both, I mean, come on.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: And then from the thirties we've got The Wizard of
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: Oz and m It's a great final four.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: Can't wait to see how it turns out.
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: And we also have August blind Spotting ahead. Three films
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: that all three of us, including producer Sam, haven't seen,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: one from Scorsese, one from Ven Vendors, one from Kiyoshi Kurosawa.
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: These are the things you get to decide as part
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: of the Film Spotting family. You pick the movie we
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: have to watch and talk about, and that will come
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: to you later this month. Again, the promo code is
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: Summer and you can sign up at Filmspotting Family dot Com.
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: President Reagan, you've got us here, sir. If you got
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: the Russians to the table, Gorbachev came to play. But
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: if we fail here, there will be war. In wide
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: release this weekend, The Brink of War. This is set
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: during the nineteen eighty six Rekuvic summit between US President
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan and Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev. Jeff Daniels plays
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Reagan and Jared Harris plays Gorbachev. JK. Simmons and Hope
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: Davis are also in the cast. Now, Adam, we weren't
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: quite teens when this took place, but that phrase Rekuvic
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Summit sounds vaguely familiar. Certainly we remember Reagan obviously Gorbachev
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: as well. What does the movie have to offer on
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: this forty year old event and any sense of why now?
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: Why this story.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Now, there's definitely a sense of why now. There's a
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: fair amount of timeliness. I don't remember anything about this
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: event as it was happening in the present day. Back
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: in the mid eighties. We were both fairly young at
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: the time, I do I did have a fair bit
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: of backstory and knowledge going into this movie, though, because
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: I had watched, just like a year ago, a documentary
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: about a documentary just about this summit, and I swear
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: to you I tried to find information about this. I
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: watched it as a screener. I think or I thought
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: it was a Sun Dance movie, but I can't find it.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: I cannot find the name of this film. I talked
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: about it on the show briefly. I thought it was uneven,
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: but it was fascinating because it got in just to
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: the minutia of this film, like taking all of the papers,
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: everything that had been transcribed, how this whole thing came together.
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: So I had some of the backstory here going into
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: watching this movie.
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: It's an on the.
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: Nose peon to good old boy diplomacy that's nevertheless enjoyable
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: and worth heating. That's the timeliness. That's part of the timeliness.
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: At one point, George Schultz, who's played by JK. Simmons,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: he's the Secretary of State to Reagan. I and Reagan
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: are having a conversation. I think at this point they've
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: just made what they think is really significant progress towards
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: arms reduction and Reagan quotes something that Margaret Thatcher told
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: him everything in the world is settled by two lads
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: and a pint, And the movie does want to, I think,
• 56:51
  Speaker 2: put forth this notion. The writer, director Michael Russell Gunn,
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: wants us to consider that despite our differences, and Reagan
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: and Gorbachev as depicted in the movie, couldn't have more
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: divergent worldviews. The writer director wants to suggest that everything
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: could be solved, or certainly the first domino could fall,
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: if we could just engage with.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: The dialogue with each other.
• 57:18
  Speaker 2: Can't we just get into a room with each other
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: and have a beer and have a conversation. And that
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: sentiment isn't lost on me. As evident as it may
• 57:31
  Speaker 2: be and as cynical as as I am, there is
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: some other resonance too, Josh. I don't know if you've
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: noticed that, all of a sudden, the terms communist and
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: socialists are being thrown around again as a threat for
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: the American way, a threat to liberty. And I hope
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: actually that everyone who's using those terms and who feels
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: that way, I hope they see this movie, and they
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: might because Republicans worship Reagan, as you know, and I
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: think this movie does too, because here's the most antiquated
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: thing about it, one of the or what feels antiquated,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: one of the sticking points in the negotiations. And this
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: is true because I know this from the documentary, is
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: that Reagan kept insisting on bringing up to Gorbaschev Russia's
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: human rights violations and his justification. At least here according
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: to this screenplay, and a lot of it was supposedly
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: based off of George Schultz's actual records, was he says
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: to Gorbachav at one point, actually two points, he says
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: the same thing. We are a nation of immigrants. He's
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: emphasizing how America is made up of immigrants. And one
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: eighth I think is the number he uses. One eighth
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: of our country has ties to Russia. So this is
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: this is important to him, that that Russia doesn't treat
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: its people better, That doesn't that the people don't enjoy
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: the freedoms that Americans enjoy under under a democracy. I
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: wonder how that that sentiment would would sit with with
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: some viewers watching it watching it today, It's it's effectively
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: a two hander. It's it's mostly comprised of conversations between
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Daniels and Jared Harris as Garbacheff on opposite sides of
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: a table in this cramped room in Reykievic and of
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: course they're both very capable actors. Daniels, he doesn't really
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: go for a Reagan impression. I'd say he only slips
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: into the Reagan accent or the affect that we all know.
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: When he says well, which is the word we all
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: think of when we think of doing a Reagan impression,
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: He'll say well, and it sounds just like that impression. Otherwise,
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: he just plays Reagan as someone who's extremely calm. Seems
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: like the definition of a leader. He's always on the offensive,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: he's exceptionally strategically minded. Harris is fundamentally decent, but has
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: this Russian bluster to him, and he gets more emotional.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: It breaks the monotony with calls and gets us out
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: of that room when they take breaks with calls to
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 2: Nancy Reagan, who's played by Hope David. She's stayed back
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: in Washington and scenes with Raisa Gorbachev, who came with Gorbachev,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: and she's doing some sight seeing and that quickly becomes
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: its own battle between the two women. Despite the fact
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: that that Nancy is as I said back at the
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: White House, and it actually does have a clever payoff.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: The CIA and KGB are down in the basement, and
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: that their little fights, their squabbles are meant to be amusing.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: They aren't really the film, as I said, I think
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: it does really worship Reagan. And why I say that
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: is because not only in its portrayal, but there's a
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: point early on where he's talking about why they're even
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: there and what the goal of the conversations are, and
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: he's talking about threats of fascism and communism, and the
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: music starts to starts to build behind him, Josh, and
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: then he's saying he's talking to his small team that's there,
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: and he says, if I wrote this, if we fail,
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: if I fail, I will be just a warmonger. That's
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: the absolute opposite of our goal. Now, that sentiment or
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: that idea may be completely accurate, that's not what I'm
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: taking issue with. A lot of the dialogue feels like
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: it was written with the benefit of hindsight.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: It doesn't.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: It feels like movie dialogue. It does not feel like
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: it does not feel like anybody in the room, in
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: that room like I would imagine them actually speaking to
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: each other. They're making pronouncements, They're making these these declarations
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: to each other. It tries to humanize Reagan by showing
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: him having these nightmares because he got shot, you know,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: the attempted assassination by Hinckley, even though that happened, that
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: happened five years earlier. Yes, I can understand there may
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: be some trauma still, of course, because of that. At
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: one point too, Schultz is with him in his room
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: and Reagan is changing his shirt, and the cam keeps
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: like it's from Schultz's point of view, focusing on Reagan's stomach.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: It feels completely random, and Josh, I think the point
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: is is that Schultz is noticing his wounds or something. Ah,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: but it it happens so quickly, there flashes it. It's bizarre.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: It's bizarre more than anything else. You don't really understand
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: why why Schultz is looking at the president's yeah bare body,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: or why we as audience members are are being drawn
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: to look there to look there either. But look, if
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: you if you like watching intense situations where people are
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: trying to use whatever leverage they have against each other,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: and I do generally, then then this movie will work,
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: especially when the entire fate of the world is at stake,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: and it does remind us I suppose of a time
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: when diplomacy actually seemed possible, and having a leader who
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: could think strategically seemed possible, and having a leader who
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 2: actually read the binders seemed possible, and someone who acted
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: out of out of thought of legacy and safety for
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: the American people. So's that's partly why I'm I'm positive
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: enough on The Brink of War, which is out now
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 2: in limited I can understand that actually wide release. The
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: Brink of War I think I said limited release. If
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: you do get a chance to see that movie, I
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: would love to hear your thoughts.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: It was my dream sometimes to do what's right. We
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: have to be steady and give up the thing we
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: want the most, even our dreams.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: It's time for some pull results. A couple of weeks ago,
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: we ask you to choose one and only one Spider
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Man movie. Your options, in chronological order were Spider Man
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: from two thousand two, Spider Man two, Spider Man Homecoming,
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: Spider Man Into the Spider Verse, Spider Man Across the
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 2: Spider Verse, or if you thought we left one of
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: the Spider Man movies out that you prefer you could
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: write in other, Josh, how did it come out?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: I think Sam did okay. Here Other was in last
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: place with four percent. Then came Spider Man Homecoming, the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: twenty seventeen film, with five percent of the vote, a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: jump up to eleven percent of the vote that went
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: to Spider Man from two thousand and two. Fifteen percent
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: of the vote went to Spider Man Across the Spider Verse,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: and then it came down pretty much to these two.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: In second place was Spider Man Into the Spider Verse
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: thirty two point sixty percent. How do you say this?
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Six zero two point six, yeah, thirty two point six.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: All right, I don't get into math this once the
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: decimals are involved, I'm out. First place went to Spider
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: Man two from two thous thousand and four thirty three
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: point three. Let's call it that.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: When we're getting into decimal points, that's an indication, yes,
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: of just how close it was and validation here. We
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: thought that Into the Spider Verse and Spider Man two
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: would compete for the top spot. That's why we picked
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: them for our movie Deathmatch episode. A couple of mondays ago,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: and here they are so close together, and Josh, the
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: thing is Sam just picks that as he's putting these
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: pages together for us earlier here the day we're recording.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: But the poll hadn't closed, So while you were going
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: through the results, I decided to go and see where
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 2: it stood this minute, if any other votes had come in. Usually,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: of course, nothing has changed because there's enough distance between
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: the candidates.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: Here.
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: I am not kidding you. I just closed it. Officially,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 2: it flip flopped. It did not flip flop. But it
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: is now thirty three point oh nine percent to thirty
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 2: three point oh nine percent.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: We have a toe. What are we going to do?
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Has this happened?
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: They both get to be saved, they both get to
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: be free of the incinerator.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that.
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's perfect. Here's here's Aaron. Spider Man two
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: is not only the best Spider Man movie, it is
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: still the greatest comic book movie ever made. There have
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: been a few that came close to topping it, but
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 2: none quite bested it.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: All Right, here's Jason. I've played by the rules through
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 1: every film, spotting madness and respect to the rules of
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: the incinerator. My vote is for Spider Man two, but
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: you will not take into the Spider verse away from me.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: A copy will be hidden away where the film's spotty
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: enforcers will never find it. Jason Sikes, You're lucky. Here's Henry.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: I would have automatically gone with Spider Man two, but
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: hearing Josh and Adams conversation actually swayed me back to
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: the first Spider Man, a movie I must have seen
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: one hundred times since I was five years old, so
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 2: many iconic images and moments without which we never would
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 2: have gotten any of these other great films.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: There you go.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, everyone who voted in that poll and who left
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: a comment. The new deeply flawed Film Spotting poll is
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: inspired by Jane Shoon Brunn and their latest Teenage Sex
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 2: and Death at Camp mi Asthma. As we said, it
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 2: is shown Brun's third feature on a really good run
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: so far. That got us thinking, what other third features
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 2: have we gotten this decade? How do they compare to
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Showan Bruns? And I'm going to say right off the
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 2: bat that it's it's a really flawed poll because Sam
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 2: just just can't help himself with options. With other we
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: have what eight choices here? He never wants to leave
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: people out.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: I get it.
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: He's he's such a nice guy, so true, let's get
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: into him, Josh, what are the choices.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: In Sam's defense? I think I know there was some
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: last minute conversation about one of these options. I think
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: we kind of needed all the ones he supposed to be.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: They're all the peace as. They all feel pretty good.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: They feel like there. They came about in roughly the
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: same time, built their careers the same way, and we
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 1: feel equally. Here's what I'd say. We felt equally excited
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: about their third feature when it was coming out, So
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: Greta Gerwiggs, Barbie. Previous to that, obviously, Ladybird and Little Women,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: ari Aster's Bow was Afraid. Previous to that, Hereditaria and Midsomar,
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: Brady Corbett's The Brutalist. This is the one that was
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: added last minute. I don't know were we that excited
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: about Brady Corbett's next film. Maybe some people were, Maybe
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: they weren't previous to that. You may need to be
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: reminded the childhood of a leader in Vox Lux Olivia
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Wilde's The Invite Book Smart. Don't worry, Darling, I was
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: probably the only one very excited about her third feature,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: based on the general reception, I don't worry Darling Chloe
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: Giles No mad Land. Before that, Chloegjow had made songs
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: My brother taught me and The Rider Jordan Peele's note
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: Nope obviously proceeded that with Get Out and Robert Eggers
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: The Northmen. Before that came The Witch and the Lighthouse.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: So your choices basically are Barbie bo Is Afraid, the Brutalist,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: the Invite, No bad Land, Nope, or the Northmen.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: Indeed, those are the choices. It is about the third film.
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: It isn't about the promise of the filmmakers. It's not
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: about the filmmakers at all. So are you now waiting?
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Are you awaiting me to choose Josh out.
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: Of those films? Yeah? Yeah, I have a winner. Okay,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: I do. I do have a win. I don't yet,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: so go ahead, you share yours first.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Well, my favorite, my favorite filmmaker there not. My choice
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: obviously is Greti Gerwig because Gregi Gerwig made my two
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: favorite films that are on the list, and they are
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 2: Lady Bird and Little Women. But they're not Barbie, So
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: that's not going to be my choice. Brady, I think
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: it's I think it's Corbe. I'm trying to remember if
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 2: I was trying to remember the correct correct pronunciation. Brady
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: Korbe is the one that doesn't feel like he completely
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: belongs because I haven't seen those two previous films. I'm
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: going to be totally honest and admit I haven't even
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: heard of the film The Childhood of a Leader. I
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: don't think anyone or I'm not going to say anyone
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 2: that's absurd. I wasn't anticipating The Brutalist when it came
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: out and it played at the Chicago Film Festival. That
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: was the first time I had heard of it, so
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 2: I was definitely not anticipating it. However, it is my
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 2: favorite film on this list before Brady Korbe and The
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: Brutalist got added. Nope, was my choice, but The Brutalist
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: is my favorite film and it's not really close, So
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: that's an easy one. That's an easy one for me. Now,
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: if you dipped into other territory, I could consider Todd
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: Fields Tar give me movies about temperamental artists apparently, and
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: I also do Love in the Bedroom and Little Children.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 2: But I'm going I'm going on the list. I'm sticking
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: to the list. I'm going to Brutalist.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: So for me, from the list, it comes down to Barbie,
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: the Invite or Nope, And I feel like Nope. I
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: need one more viewing to really get a sense of
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: how it would compete about those others, and I somewhat
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: feel the same with The Invite. I'm riding very high
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: on that right now, but haven't had a chance to
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 1: see it again. So I think I'm gonna go with
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: the movie I know best, and that is Barbie. Barbie's
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 1: my vote.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: A vote for Barbie, a vote for the Brutalist. We
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: would love your vote. We would love to hear an
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: explanation for your vote. We might even feature your comments
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: on an upcoming show. And of course there are options
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: for other if you'd like to write them in. You
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 2: could make the case for todd Fields Tar Instead didn't
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 2: feel to Sam and I supposed to all three of
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: us like they quite fit in with the rest of
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 2: the gang. Charlie Kaufman's I'm Thinking of Ending Things, Eliza
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 2: Hitman never, rarely, sometimes always, Kajillionaire, the third film from
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: Miranda July. Are there defenders out there? For Alex Garland's Men,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: I don't know, wouldn't be like bit did you. Yeah,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: we did discuss that film. I didn't remember us having
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: a strong disagreement about it. I was definitely very mixed
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: on that film.
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 1: Maybe I didn't review it with you. It's possible. I
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: feel like all of those they just they feel of
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 1: a different group of filmmakers, Like is Toddfield's going to
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: make is his next movie ten years from now? Maybe
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe as something coming out this fall,
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: but it just I feel like the group Sam landed
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: on for the most part, our filmmakers who came up
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: around the same time, and we're going to be following
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 1: for a long time as a group. So that feels
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: right to me.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: Eight seventy four was the episode that was the episode
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: you debuted the Garland scale, So we did discuss many
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: of us together.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: Who could ever forget? Who could forget?
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 2: You can vote once again and leave a comment at
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: film spotting dot net. The link and the poll are
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: right there on the main page. We will share the
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 2: results in a couple of weeks. Josh, that is our show.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: If you want to connect with us on social media,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: you can find Adam and the Show on Instagram, Facebook, Letterboxed, YouTube,
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: and blue Sky. At film Spotting. You'll find me at
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 1: Larsen on film We are into dependantly produced and listener supported.
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: You can support the show by joining the film Spotting
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: Family At film spottingfamily dot com. You can listen early
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: in ad free. You'll also get monthly bonus episodes, a
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: weekly newsletter, and access to the entire show archive. You'll
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: get all of that for twenty percent off through the
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: month of August. Just use promo code Summer. For show
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: t shirts and other merch go to film spotting dot
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: net slash shop.
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: How about this Josh in limited release, completely off our radar.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 2: I feel like we're saying this more and more the
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: rivals of m Zia King. This is director Andrew Patterson,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: his follow up to twenty twenty Golden Brick nominee The
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 2: Vast of Night, such as right Interesting Film and It's
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 2: got Matthew McConaughey in it. It's got Kurt Russell White.
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 2: McConaughey is the title character, a beekeeper who reunites with
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 2: his former foster daughter. It premiered back at the twenty
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 2: twenty five South By Southwest. Our friend Mitchell Beaupre says
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: it's a shape shifting soul ste during sonically sumptuous Delight.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of SA's well done. Mitchell Beaupre also
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: out is Wet, Hot Americ and some are played film
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: Spotting Fest Now it's being re released on the occasion
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: of its twenty fifth anniversary. Go enjoy that with an
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: audience In wide release. Nimrod's three friends journey from Kansas
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 2: City to la mistakenly believing their band is opening for
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: Green Day on New Year's Eve. They're going to your
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: brand right, Yeah, something just like that. The Wrong Girls
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 2: is also out. Kristin Stewart and Aliah Shockat are stoner
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: best friends who get caught up in a case of
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: mistake and identity. I think we were all waiting for
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: a stoner comedy from Kristin Stewart.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: I mean Aliah Shockat. That's a pretty good duo. Actually,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: this sounds kind of good.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 2: The Brink of War is out and David Robert Mitchell's
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 2: the End of Oak Street Big Week in the film
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: Spotting Feed. We will close out on Sunday Dissident Cinema
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: Marathon with our awards on Monday, another episode of the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: movie Racket with Michael Phillips. A lot of talk of
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: adaptations in the news lately, of course with the Odyssey,
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: so this show will be all about that, the movie
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: laws of book to film adaptations with David Kajanik, who adapted.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: He's a screenwriter who adapted three films for Luca Guadanino,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 2: including Suspiria. On Tuesday, Film Spotting SVU has the latest
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 2: from Louis Letterier, The Last House, and I'm very eager
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: to see this one now, Josh, just based on the
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 2: cast Greta Lee Wagner, Mora not bad, pretty good pairing.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: On Thursday, part two of the Next Picture shows Pairing,
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: which is Pixars Radituey and Anthony Bourdain's Tony. And finally
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: on Friday, the film Spotting Mothership. You'll have a review
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: of Tony. I can't see it for another couple of
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: weeks yet. On fortunately, very very excited to and you
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: plan to share a few thoughts on Tony because you
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: have already had the pleasure of seeing that.
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: I've seen it. Interesting film. I'll share more later. Film
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: Spotting is produced by Golden, Joe Toso and Sam Van Hogren.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 1: Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show wouldn't go. Our
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks to everyone at
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 1: wbe Z Chicago. More information is available at wbez dot org.
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 1: For film spotting, I'm Josh Larson.
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: And I'm met Him Kempinar. Thanks for listening.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 3: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: The Barn