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Mega Edition: The Murders In Moscow And The Similarities Shared With Oher Murders (8/18/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. Ever since
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: we've heard about what happened in Moscow and we got
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: some of the details about what went down, one of
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: the main questions that's been asked is, how in the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: hell did the other roommates not hear what went on,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: or if they did hear what went on, why didn't
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: they call nine to one one. Well, we have an
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: article today from The Independent, and we're hearing from another
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: woman who had a similar experience, who's discussing what she
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: went through to kind of give some perspective about what
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: the surviving roommates might have went through that night and
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: what they're going to go through in the future. So
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: let's dive into this article from the Independent and let's
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: see if we can get a little more context here. Headline,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: she slept through an attack that nearly killed her roommate.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Now she's defending a stranger in the Idaho murders. This
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: article was authored by Rachel Sharp. When Alta Zabel first
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: heard the four young students had been viciously murdered in
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: their rental home after a night out, she didn't want
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: to think about it. When she then heard that one
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: of the surviving roommates was coming under attack for how
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: she handled the unimaginable experience. She realized she had to
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: speak out. I can understand every aspect of what she
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: went through being nineteen years old having fun. You don't
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: know any reality where a man breaks into your house
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: and attacks your friends, she tells The Independent, And that
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: makes sense to me. Look, you don't expect something like
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: this to go down, especially at nineteen years old in
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: a place like Moscow. But still that really doesn't explain
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: away why nine to one one wasn't called for eight hours, right,
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: And for me, there's got to be an explanation at
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: some point that we're going to get, and it's going
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: to be one that has to do with shock probably.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: But until we get that explain from an official source,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: people are going to have questions. I get it. I
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: get it when people say why didn't she call nine
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to one one? But those people are just used to
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: watching these things happen in movies. This is a very
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: unique and traumatic experience. So until you've been in a
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: traumatic experience, it's, you know, very easy to say what
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: I would or wouldn't do, But until you're there and
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: it's your feet on the ground, and it's a situation
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: you're living through. We just don't know what we would
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: or wouldn't do, and we have to be honest when
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: we say that. Three decades before, University of Idaho's students
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Kaylee Gonsalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin were
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: attacked in an off campus home in Moscow, Miss Zabel's
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: college home in Buffalo, New York was broken into by
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: a man who raped and violently attacked her roommate with
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: a hammer, leaving her for dead. It was nineteen ninety
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: two and Miss Zabel, now fifty, was living in a
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: three story home with five other chi Omega sorority sisters
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: at the University of Buffalo. One night in September, in
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: the excitement of the fall semester, the roommates had gone
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: to a party at the Sigma Kai fraternity nearby. The
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: victim was the first to head home in the early
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: hours of the morning. When Miss Zabel arrived home some
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: time later, the door was locked and she couldn't get
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: a hold of her roommate to let her into the house.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: In typically comic student fashion, she clambered carefree through the
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: bathroom window. Once inside, she noticed it smelled weird. She
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: called out to her roommate, but after hearing heavy breathing
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: coming from her bedroom, she left her alone, simply assuming
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: that her roommate and roommate's boyfriend were inside. And here's
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: the key for me, right here, the statement coming up.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: I was drunk and didn't understand why it smelled weird,
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: and I just kind of crashed in my room, she says.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: And look, I don't know what the roommates were up to,
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: the surviving roommates, if they were on any kind of
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: drugs or anything like that. But if you've ever been
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: on hallucinogenics, then you know that sometimes you're taking a
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: look at things and you don't know if shit's real
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: or not. So I'm not sure as far as if
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: they were on any drugs or anything like that, but
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: if they were, never mind being drunk. If you ate
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: a couple of caps a few stems before you know it,
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: you have no idea what's real and what's not. And again, look,
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying that that's what happened. I do not know,
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: but it certainly would explain why this phone call wasn't
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: made for all of these hours in the aftermath of
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: the murders, it was beyond all comprehension that her friend
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: was being brutally attacked at that very moment. Her friend
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: thankfully survived the attack, but only just, with doctors saying
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: she was minutes from death. She spent months in a
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: coma and her recovery was long. Four years later, a
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: serial rapist whose name is Abel does not want to
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: repeat to protect her former housemate, was convicted of rape
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and attempted murder. And that person who was convicted of
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: that rape and attempted murder should have never get out
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: of prison ever. Again. Imagine we have convicted rapists out
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: here that are getting out of prison. How is that
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: even possible? Like, if you're a violent rapist, why are
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: you getting out of prison? Does the system actually think
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: you're going to change your ways? These child molesters, these rapists,
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: these abusers, they don't change. They are what they are.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Though years apart, the horrific nineteen ninety two attacks share
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: chilling similarities with the slayings of the four students in
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Idaho today. When news first broke about the November murders,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: it is close to home from his Zabel, it was
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: really hard at first seeing this story pop up. I
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: love true crime and I always try to figure out
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: what happened, she told The Independent from her home in
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Santa Monica, California. But people would send me this story
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: in the beginning, and it is home too much. I
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: didn't want to open the link, and when I did,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, wow, yeah, I could see that you
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: had a traumatic experience pretty similar to this. Probably the
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: last thing you want to do is relive it. Miss
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Sabel says that she and her sorority sisters from their
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two house all message each other about the case.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: It brought back a lot. The similarities were chilling, she says.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: In both cases, a three story house was known as
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: home to a group of sorority sisters enjoying college life.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: The night of the attack was just a typical night
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: out drinking with fellow students. Kernodle and Chapin had also
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: spent their last night at a Sigma Kai party. Both times,
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: several hours passed between the attacks and the alarm being
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: raised and the nine to one one calls. Both alerted
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: police to an unconscious individual, only for officials to arrive
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: to discover a violent bloody scene, And I think the
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: point of this article is to explain it away that
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: this kind of thing does happen. Sometimes we just can't
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: understand or wrap our minds around why somebody reacts a
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: certain way in a situation. But when we get a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: little more context and somebody who has been through it
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: can add a little bit of flavor to it, maybe
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: it helps us understand a little bit better what went down.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: But perhaps the most harrowing similarity is in the experience
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: of miss Abel and Dylan Mortenson, one of the two
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: roommates who survived the Idaho attack. When the affid David
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: for suspected Idaho killer Brian Koberger was released earlier this month,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: it revealed for the first time that Miss Mortenson came
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: face to face with a masked man inside the student
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: home moments after her four friends were slaughtered. At the
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: time of the attack, the nineteen year old was in
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: her bedroom on the second floor, the same floor where
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Kernodle and Chapin were killed. And we heard previously obviously
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: that they were on the bottom floor, but that is
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: not the case. And we also heard previously that they
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: were all sleeping when these attacks occurred. And we know
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: now that unfortunately that is not the case either. She
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: told investigators that she had been woken up at around
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: four am by what sounded like Gonsava is playing with
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: her dog on the third floor. A short time later,
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: she heard a woman's voice saying there's someone here, before
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: a man said shortly after, it's okay, I'm going to
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: help you. You imagine this sick, disgusting, depraved bastard, who
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: the government says is Brian Cohberger saying that shit to
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: this poor girl, and her knowing that she's in supreme jeopardy.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I can't even imagine what their last moments were like.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Opening her door three times to see what was going
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: on on the last time, she saw a figure clad
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: mouth and nose walking towards her. As she stood in
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: a frozen shock face. The man walked past her and
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: out the backsliding glass door of the home. The Affidavid
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: reveals the nineteen year old then locked herself in a
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: room with no nine to one one call placed for
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: a further eight hours. And look, that's where the issue
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: is for a lot of people. And I get it.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I want to know why that phone call wasn't made either.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I'm just as curious as everybody else. But at the
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: same time, we have to understand that this girl just
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: went through something severely traumatic. And you know, there's people
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: out there that still say she had something to do
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: with these murders. She was an accomplice, and that's I
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: mean insanity, right. There's nothing that has ever pointed to
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Of course, when it first happened, that's
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: what a lot of people were thinking. Me included, well,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: how did these surviving roommates? How is it that they
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: weren't killed? But after we got context on everything that
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: went down, well it certainly changed the perspective. And these girls,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: in my opinion anyway, the surviving roommates, they're victims here too. Now.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: Could they have done things better? Of course they could have,
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: But was there any malicious intent behind it? I do
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: not think so at all. Since the release of the AFFID,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: David miss Mortenson has faced pointed questions as to why
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: she did not call police as soon as she saw
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: an unidentified, masked man inside her home. Some online critics
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: have even gone as far as to baselessly accuse the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: student of being involved in her friend's murders. But much
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: like the nineteen year old student today, miss Abel explains
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: she also had a delayed response to the traumatic experience
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: in her student home, as well as a terrifying close
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: call with the attacker. And until you're in that position again,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: you experience it, It's easy to say what I do
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: or what I wouldn't do. Hell, I've said a million
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: times before I had a car accident what I would
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: or wouldn't do, and then my Cadillac gets smashed and
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: all that goes out the window. Right, What's the saying
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: In a fight, you always have a plan until you
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: get punched in the face. It's the same thing here.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: You can say till the cows come home what you
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: would or wouldn't do. But when you're in that situation,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: when you're the one who is there and you're dealing
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: with it, well, that's a whole different situation entirely. When
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: she got home that night in September of nineteen ninety two,
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: she went to bed none the wiser as to what
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: had taken place mere feet away from her. Sometime later,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: she says she heard someone come into her room before
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: they quickly quickly left and she heard the front door close.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine after the knowing what happened to your
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: roommate after the fact, and then thinking that that person
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: was in your room. Talk about terrifying. At the time,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: miss Abel simply assumed it was one of her roommates.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: It was only later that she learned that it was
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: the attacker. The next morning, she discovered her sorority sister
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: in a pool of blood. Except even then, she explains
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that she didn't even realize it was blood. I had
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: really unique experience as I found my housemate, and I
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: didn't see the blood, she says, I just saw liquid.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: My friend was taking her pulse and I thought that
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: she had choked on her own vomit. Right away, I
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: said it was vomit. Then when the paramedics arrived, they
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: stepped into the room and said the word blood. And
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: when you're a college kid, that has to be your default,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: you know, idea right, Oh man, they got too drunk,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: they vomited, and they're choking on their vomit. I know
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: that's what I would think when I was nineteen and
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: in school. The last thing I would ever think that
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: somebody came into the house and murdered my roommates, and
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: in that millisecond, the entire room was red. Miss Abel
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: says she has since learned that her mind leaped into
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a defense mechanism to help her deal with the trauma
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: of what she was seeing and experiencing. It's a way
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: of dealing with trauma that, she says, decades on, she
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: still can't fully put into words. It's still a phenomenon
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to me that in our experiences as humans, we can
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: see the same light and color, or if I see
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: a dog on the street, you will also see that
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: dog on the street, she says. But when we are
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: in a state of trauma, the mind will protect us.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: If we can't experience something without damage, the mind will
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: block it out. And there's no doubt that the mind
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: has its way of trying to protect you. And when
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you see something like this or go through something like this,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: your mind has to go to all kinds of crazy
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: ass places. She adds, that blows my mind to this
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: day and humbles me. While something still somewhat incomprehensible, her
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: own vivid recollection of how our mind responded to the
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: trauma that day gives her a clear understanding of Miss
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: Mortenson's reaction to the violent night in November. You feel
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: a tsunami of chaos and horror, so I can understand
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: why she froze and why you don't know what to do,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: says miss Abel. You second check yourself. If there's even
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: a one percent chance that something traumatic isn't true, then
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: you lean in and believe it's not true. So the
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: mind definitely will play tricks on you. Did Dylan say
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: to herself, well, look, this is just somebody that was
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: at the house and they were wearing a mask because
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: of COVID, and then try and convince yourself of that
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: very possible. She also knows all too well the guilt
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: that the nineteen year old may feel for not calling
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: nine to one one earlier, as she spent a long
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: time wondering if things could have been different in my situation.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: My housemates survived, but with a lot of brain damage.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: She says, I carry the guilt wondering if I had
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: called earlier, would she have had as much brain damage.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Miss Abel says that she didn't want to rehash what
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: she went through back in nineteen ninety two, but felt
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: the responsibility to speak out in defense of miss Mortenson.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Who sees her younger self, who she sees her younger
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: self in. And look, I get that. You see somebody
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: who went through something you went through, and you want
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: to reach out to them and support them. Right, Hey, Look,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: there's not many of us who have been through this.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: I want you to know that there's people out there
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: that have walked in your shoes and and all of that, jazz.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: And I think that's a pretty noble move from miss
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Zabel here to relive her own trauma to reach out
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: and defend Dylan. I think that's a solid move on
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Misszabel's part. I understand the anguish when you read the affidavit.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: I also thought, oh god, you saw him, But you
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: have to look beyond that as a human and see
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: that this is a nineteen year old girl has experienced
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: something atypical, horrific, and traumatic, she says. So to accuse
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: her without evidence and diminish her experience and assume she
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: would have done something different when you've never experienced anything
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: similar is unacceptable, She adds. It changed all of our
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: lives very quickly, and it's something you can't ever change
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: or take away, and it will always be with you.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: That's the reason I wanted to stand up for Dylan
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: as she is being chastised online by so many people.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: She urges the critics to stand down, emphasizing that without
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: having gone through a similar experience, they can't possibly understand
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: the way Trum takes hold. And I agree with that,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: But people are going to have questions about that nine
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: to one one call, and I don't see that being
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: an issue. It's when you start calling this girl an
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: accomplice or saying she had something to do with it.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: And one of my biggest things has always been, especially
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: following the Epstein and Maxwell case, is big allegations require
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: big evidence. So if you're going to allege that she
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: had something to do with the crimes, you better come
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: correct with receipts. You have to change your perception and perspective,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: and you have to moderate how you speak on this.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: She will look and live with this for the rest
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: of her life, and just one comment has the ability
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to crush someone's spirit, she says. Instead of facing a
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: barrage of suspicion and criticism, miss Abel says Miss Mortenson
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: and the second surviving room mate, Bethany Funk, both need
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: support in dealing with the trauma. They have endured. I
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: am one hundred percent in support of them. They have
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: a long road ahead, and I'm sure that they will
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: find their She says, they're definitely gonna need support, and
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: my guess is they're getting that support from the community
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: and from their family and friends. But if I was
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: them or their loved ones, I wouldn't. I would tell them, Look,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: your best bet is not to go on any of
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: these internet forums ever, because people are vile, there's no doubt.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Back in ninety two, she says that she and her
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: roommates didn't get any offers of counseling from their college,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: but social media also wasn't around. She adds, no one
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: got counseling, so I packed it all away in a
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: file and moved on with my life. But the file,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: and the pain and the fear, it was all still there,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: she says. As well as guilt over her reaction to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: her own experience, she has also struggled to come to
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: terms with the knowledge of just how close she came
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: to the attacker. The attacker was standing over my bed
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: as I slept. I didn't sleep for about a year
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: after that, because as soon as I closed my eyes,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I felt someone chasing me. She says, I can't imagine
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: I honestly can't imagine not being comfortable laying in bed,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: the one place where you should be comfortable, right, You
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: should be secure your house, your bed, and then to
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: have some scumbag skulk into your house in the middle
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: of the night and kill your roommates or in this
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: case rape and try and kill one of your roommates. Yeah,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: that's going to affect you for the rest of your life,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: no doubt about it. Every single time I think of it,
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I'm on the verge of tears. It never leaves you.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: She adds, I wish I had done more work to
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: process it all back then. So I hope they get
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: the support and are able to process every aspect and
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: feeling from this experience. From one survivor to another. She
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: has a poignant message for the two roommates who live
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: through the attack. Make sure you know you're not responsible
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: in any way. Celebrate the lives or your friends, and
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: honor them in the way that you live your lives.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, Well, I just wanted to add this
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: one to the catalog, so we have a little perspective
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: from somebody who actually went through this when when you
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: hear from people who have went through the same sort
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: of thing, oftentimes it adds a lot more context to
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: what you're looking at, especially when it's a situation like
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: this that is so unique. Not very many people go
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: through it, right, So when you hear from somebody who has,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: it helps to perhaps answer some of the questions we
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: may have. All Right, folks, that's gonna do it for
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: this one. If you'd like to contact me, you can
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: do that at Bobby Kapuuci at ProtonMail dot com. That's
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Bo Bby c apu Cci at proton mail dot com.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: You can also find me on Twitter at Bobby Underscore
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: c ap u Cci. The link that I discussed can
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: be found in the description Box one and Welcome Back
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: to the program. Survivors of Ted Bundy gave an interview
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: to Fox over the weekend where they were talking about
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: some of the similarities between the attack by Brian Kolberger
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: allegedly and the one by Ted Bundy on the sorority house.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Today's article was published by The New York Post and
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: the headline ted Bundy survivors see eerie similarities between their
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: gruesome attacks and Brian Coberger's alleged rampage. This story was
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: originally published by Fox News. The brutal killings of four
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: University of Idaho students have captured the attention of the
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: nation as suspect Brian Colberger awaits his trial, but two
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: survivors of notorious serial killer Ted Bundy warn his murders
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: bear an eerie resemblance to the FSU Sorority House killings.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: There have been a lot of mass murderers, but Coburger
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: seemed to almost pick a murder that mirrored one of
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Bundy's murders. Is that a coincidence? I don't know, survivor
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: Karen Pryor said on Fox Nations Parallels of Evil the
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Bundy and Idaho killings. Now, I'm not too sure one
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: way or the other if Brian Colber was, you know,
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: infatuated with Ted Bundy or trying to mimic his killings
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. But there's no doubt that these two,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: probably when all is said and done, are going to
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: share some tendencies. And I'm guessing that whichever one of
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: these psychologists get to sit down with them is going
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: to be able to figure all of that out after
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: really sitting down with him and building a profile, especially
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: if he's like someone like Ed Kemper and he wants
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: to talk to the psychologist or the BAU officials, somebody
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: who wants to talk about their crimes and the rest
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of that. We just don't know yet with Brian Kolberger
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: what kind of person he is, So everything's up in
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: the air, right He might have all of the same
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: tendencies as Ted Bundy, or he might not have any.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: These roommates are saying that they feel like the attacks
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: have some similar traits. However, Brian Kolberger, the criminology PhD
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: student accused of the home invasion murder of four University
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: of Idaho undergrads, was indicted by a grand jury in
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: leytah County, Idaho, earlier this month. According to authorities, he
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: is accused of sneaking into a college town rental home
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: around four am on November thirteenth, twenty twenty two, and
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: killing Kayley Gonsalvis Madison Mogan, Xanakernodle, and Ethan Japin inside.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: When news broke about the murders, Bundy survivor RYL Thomas
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: said reports brought her back to the events of January fifteenth,
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight. And we have also heard from other
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: survivors of a different sorority attack that occurred in Buffalo
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that said the same thing. One of the survivors of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that attack actually went through something similar to the survivor
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Dylan Mortenson in the Idaho attack. Heard some crying, heard
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: some screaming, but didn't really know what was going on,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: and didn't know until the next day. So while Ted
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: Bundy and his attack on the sorority at Florida's State
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: University is probably the most notorious of these kinds of attacks,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: this is certainly something that has happened in the past
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: and unfortunately will happen in the future. I could relate,
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Thomas told Fox Nations. Nancy Grace Prior added, it brings
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: back that memory when she managed to just barely survive
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: Bundy's rampage at a sorority house. Imagine those lingering memories
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: surviving a guy like Ted Bundy, knowing what he was
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: capable of and what he did not only to random women,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: but your roommates, your sorority sisters, and to survive that, Yeah,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: I'm guessing there's a lot of survivor's guilt there, even
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: though there shouldn't be. But whenever you survive a situation
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: and one of your friends or your loved ones they
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: do not, there's a lot of survivor's guilt that has
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: to be dealt with. Even if that survivor's guilt is buried,
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: it is there. It's present, and it's going to cause
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: issues for a lot of people, and unfortunately, somebody like
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: this who lives through an attack like this is going
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: to be dealing with that for the rest of their lives.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Ted Bundy broke into the Kyle Mega sorority house at
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Florida State University, where he unleashed hell on sleeping sorority sisters.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: He attacked and bludgeoned four girls at the house, leaving
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy dead. Prior was one of
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the sorority house survivors. While police rushed to the Kyo
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: Mega house, Bundy fled the scene and ended up breaking
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: into a nearby duplex, where he attacked Thomas in her
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: own bed. Think about how much of a psycho Ted
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Bundy had to have been. He just gets done attacking
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: sorority girls. Oh that's not enough. The police are coming,
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: So let me go break into a duplex and start
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: all over. If anybody ever deserved to get thrown directly
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: in a volcano, it was Ted Bundy. My neighbors heard
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: when I was being attacked. They heard moaning, so they
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: called and they could hear through the wall my phone ringing.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I didn't answer, she said during the Fox Nation special.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Then they called again and they heard running. So at
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: that point Ted Bundy was running out and getting out
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: through the kitchen window, and they called nine to one
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: one because it was just too weird of a sound
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: of going next door. When asked how Coberger's alleged killings
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: mirrored Bundy's, Pryor said, he broke into the house as
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Bundy broke into the sorority house, and went kind of
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: systematically from person to person to kill them. Now, with Bundy,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I certainly think that's the case. With Coburger, I don't
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: think that's the case. I think that Brian Coohberger initially
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: only planned on hurting Madison Mogen, but when Kaylee was there,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: as I've said before, it threw everything into chaos for him,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: and it flipped the switch. And once that psychopath was ignited,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: forget it, it was over. And once he came out
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: of that room and he ran into Xana. Well he
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: had to kill her too, right, and then Ethan as well.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: My guess is Ethan stumbled out of the room hearing
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: some kind of you know, chaos or whatever. He comes
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: out and he's ambushed. So I don't think it was
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: systematic so much with Brian Kohberger as him being caught
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: unawares if you will, and unexpectedly finding Kaylee in the
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: bed with Maddie. Whereas Ted Bundy, I think he broke
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: into that house, that sorority house, to cause mass casualties,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: mass amount of damage. At that point, Ted Bundy had
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: progressed so far into his depravity that there was no
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: stopping this guy, and one was never enough. Ted Bundy
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: was the kind of guy he had to have multiple
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: and not only that, he would bury their remains and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: then go back to spend time with those buried remains,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: if you get my drift. The twenty eight year old
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Washington State University PhD student was charged with four counts
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of first degree murder and another of felony burglary after
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: allegedly sneaking into a six bedroom house near the University
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: of Idaho about ten miles away from his Washington apartment
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: where he killed the four students. For over a month,
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: police and law enforcement officials were relatively silent on their
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: search for a suspect until Coburger was arrested on December thirtieth,
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. There's no doubt that the police were
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: playing things close to the vest and there was all
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: kinds of chaos surrounding that, remember, where people were thinking
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: that the police really had no idea what they were doing.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: But in the long run, when everything was what it was,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: the police ended up getting the guy that they say
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: was responsible. Similarly, Bundy broke into the sorority house and duplex,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: attacking his victims and escaping without a trace for weeks.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Private investigator Bill Warner told Parallels of Evil host Nancy
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: Grace that his initial thought was that the Idaho killer
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: was a copycat of Bundy Ted. Bundy's former lawyer, John
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: Henry Brown noted in the special that in both the
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: Idaho and Bundy cases, rage seemed to play a central
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: role and how the victims were murdered. And yeah, I
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: agree with that one hundred percent. And as I've said
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: just previously in this episode, my speculation is that rage
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: occurred because Kaylee unexpectedly was in that bed. And when
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you have a psychopath like Brian Koberger is being made
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: out to be well, if they get their plan thrown off,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: there's gonna be consequences for whoever is responsible for him
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: not being able to spend the time that he wanted
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: to spend with Madison. And that's some scary shit when
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: you think about it. It's so random, and the manner
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: of homicide was so brutal. Brown said, I've done probably
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: fifty murder cases in my career, maybe more, and these
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: are the only two that have had those similarities. Almost
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: all of them involve weapons guns mostly, or if fistfights
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: things like that, or in self defense, and usually it
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: is done with a gun, right, somebody will walk in
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: a killer and use a gun and be done with it.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: When you're using a knife in the manner of which
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: a knife was used in Moscow, it's a much more
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: intimate sort of killing. And it leads me to believe
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: that there are other issues at play there as far
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: as the mind state of the killer, because if it
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: was like a cartel hit, like some people said at
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: the beginning, it would have been cold, but not done
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: with a knife. They would have walked in there with
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: a gun and did everybody that way. And when you
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: have a knife involved like this, it usually points to
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: a much more intimate nature, a much more connected nature
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of the killer and the victim, even if that connection
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: is only in the killer's mind. Bundy i'd used a
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: log to beat his victims, including Thomas and Pryor, while
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: Colberger allegedly used a knife to stab the four students.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: Brown explained that both weapons involved being close to the
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: victim and require a lot of time and rage to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: kill an individual. They're brutal, and they're designed to basically
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: destroy the inside of your body as well as the
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: outside of your body. That's an indication of a great
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: deal of rage on the part of the perpetrator, no
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: question about it, he shared. The Fox Nation special even
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: looks at how key pieces of evidence like the vehicle
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: helped track down suspects in both the Bundy and Idaho case.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: In the aftermath of the brutal crimes, both college towns
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: were rocked, and students at the two universities applied a
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: new level of caution to their daily routines. Bundy eventually
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: confessed to at least thirty murders and was executed in
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Florida in nineteen eighty nine. While Coburger has been charged,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: he still awaits a six week trial, which will begin
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: in October. In both the Idaho and Bundy cases, rage
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: seemed to play a central role in how the victims
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: were murdered, according to Bundy's former lawyer. A judge entered
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: pleas of not guilty to all charges for Brian Colberger
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: at his arraignment Monday, more than six months after police
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: allege he fatally stabbed the four University of Idaho undergrads
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: and their off campus home. While the nation, especially the Moscow,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Idaho community, awaits the trial, Fox Nations Parallels of Evil
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: present subscribers with alarming similarities between one of the most
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: notorious serial killers and the Idaho murders through the eyes
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: of experts and survivors, and for me, it's always interesting
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: to get the perspective of people who actually lived through
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: something like this, who can give you a better explanation
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of what went down, how they felt, what it was
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: like then people who actually lived through it. So while
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: I don't think that Coleburger was some kind of Ted
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Bundy copycat or Ted Bundy wanna be. There are certainly
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: some similarities about the sorority house attack and what went
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: down in Moscow, and what the surviving roommates of the
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Moscow attack are going to go through is going to
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: be relatively similar to what these other survivors have went
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: through as they've tried to put what happened behind them,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and hopefully they're getting the proper counseling and therapy that
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: they're going to need, because my guess is it's going
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: to be rough to navigate through all of this, especially
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: with the trial having to relive it. That certainly can't
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: be a prospect that a survivor is looking forward to.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with the episode can
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box. Everyone and welcome back
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: to the program. As everybody continues to try to connect
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the dots about what happened in Moscow, there are a
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: few other stabbings that shared a lot of the same similarities. Well,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: those stabbings have been looked into by the investigators, and
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the investigators are saying that they are not connected. So
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: we talked about the stabbing up in Oregon of Travis
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Juten and his wife and how it was very, very
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: similar to these attacks. Now the investigators are saying they've
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: looked into all of it and there is no connection.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: So that brings us right back to square one, doesn't it?
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: For me? I would have to say that the likeliest
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: possibility here, the likeliest outcome, is that there was a
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: stalker and they just didn't know about it. As far
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: as her family or one of these girls' families and friends,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: we've heard a lot of talk that it was Kayley
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: who had the stalker. None of that's been confirmed, but
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: the police are certainly looking into it, and of all
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: of the stuff that we have heard, all of the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: information that we have received as the public, that seems
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to be the likeliest outcome here that there was a
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: stalker involved and whatever happened led to these murders. But
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: it's so crazy because usually you don't see this kind
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: of collateral damage, meaning that if a stalker is going
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: to kill somebody, they wait until they're alone and then
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: they kill them. I think what's throwing everybody off here
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: is that there's so many other murders involved as well,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: it's not just one girl who was targeted by insert
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: stalker here. It was a whole group of friends who
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: was murdered while they were in bed. So there is
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: a big disconnect. Usually, when you're talking about a stalker
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and a whole house getting murdered, that's some straight up
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: psychopaths shit. So we're gonna have to get some information
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: obviously to fill in all of the blanks. But the
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: way that the police keep ruling stuff out and the
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: way they say this was targeted, it's leading me to
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: believe that this talk about a stalker definitely has legs.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And when you start to look at all of the
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: information and everything that we know, it's the likeliest outcome
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: here is that one of these girls had a stalker.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: So let's get to this article from Fox News and
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: let's get caught up on where things stand. Headline, Idaho
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: investigators rule out connection between college murders and other unsolved stabbings.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: This article was authored by Mike Ruiz. Detectives looking into
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: a quadruple homicide of a group of University of Idaho
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: students have ruled out a connection between the Jarring attack
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: and two other unsolved stabbings, with similar characteristics, and look,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: I think that at this point people are just you know,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: kind of grasping at straws trying to make it all
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: make sense. And that's the most difficult part because none
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: of this is ever going to make sense. The fact
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: that these kids were killed, the fact that they were killed,
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: in the manner that they were killed, and in the
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: town that they were killed in, there's no you know,
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: making sense of that. We don't believe at this time
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: that these murders are actually linked to two other knife
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: murders that have occurred. Aaron Snell, the director of communications
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: for the Idaho State Police, told the Fox News Digital
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: on Friday, at this point in time, our detectives were
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: aware of these cases, and we have looked into them. All. Right, Well,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: they're saying that they did their due diligence, and all
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: we can do is go on with what they say. Right, So,
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: they've ruled those out those stabbings, they've ruled out several
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: people who look like key suspects, and now, as far
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: as we're concerned the public, it's a guessing game at
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: this point, and anyone who says any different is fooling
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: you because they haven't put anything out there that would
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: lead us to a conclusion one way or the other,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: besides the fact that a, this was a targeted attack
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: and b it's starting to look like there was a
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: stalker involved. Now they're gonna have to put those pieces
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: together and they're gonna have to actually find this stalker.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: We've heard from second hand parties, third hand parties that
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: there was a situation with perhaps the stalker with Kayley. Now,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: the investigators they haven't really been able to find anything
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: as far as that goes, at least that they've been
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: willing to share with the public. That's always the caveat.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: When you hear them start ruling stuff like this out
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: and they start saying, no, this didn't happen, that didn't happen,
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: it leads me to believe that maybe they're sniffing something.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Killy Gunsalves, Madison Mogan, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin were
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: found dead hours after police say someone attacked them in
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: their sleep on November thirteenth. Reporters out of news briefing
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: on Wednesday asked Moscow police about the possible connection between
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: the students slaying and a second unsolved stabbing which left
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: Travis Jutin dead and seriously injured his wife, Jamie lynnon Oregon.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: And even though those weren't connected, I'm glad we added
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: it to the catalog because their story matters too, and
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: the person who killed Travis Juten, that person needs to
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: be caught. So if this story brings a little renewed
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: spotlight on that, I think that's a good thing, honestly,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: because how many of these cases go cold in a
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: place like this, some random attacks, some random violence. The
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: small town police officers have no idea what happened, and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: before you know it, the case goes cold. And that's
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: what happened up here in Oregon. And obviously this person's
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: family deserves justice, they deserve closure, authorities say, and intruder
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: attacked the couple in their sleep around three am on
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: August thirteenth of twenty twenty one. Travis Jutton, twenty six,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: fought back but succumbed to his injuries. His wife, who
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: is twenty six, now survives nineteen stab wounds and she
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: had some horrific injuries. When we read that article, I
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: couldn't believe the extent of her injuries. And this poor
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: woman not only had to deal with all of that,
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: you know, mending on the comeback from being stabbed nineteen times,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: but the realization that not only her husband is gone,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: but her best friend. And I know there's a lot
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: of you out there with who are married to their
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: best friend. And I know, personally, I'm with my best friend.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: My girlfriend is by far my best friend, and it's
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: not even close. I share everything with her. She's my confidant,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: she's my support system. God forbid anything ever happened to her.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know what I would do. When she was
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: diagnosed with breast cancer. It was the most jarring situation
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: of my whole entire life. And to watch her battle
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: through that, being sick and still standing up tall, going
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: at work, it was just I was in awe, honestly
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: of how powerful of a person she is. And to
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: think that somebody could come into your home and rip
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: that right from you, it's just almost too much to imagine.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: And this poor family, they really deserve justice. So I
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: hope that some renewed spotlight on this case gets the
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: police going and maybe you know, there's a break in
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: the case up there in Oregon, and they find the
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: person who did this. The following morning, The Idaho Tribune
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: reported that a third nearby attack under eerily similar circumstances.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Sandra lad seventy one, was found dead in her home
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: in Washagal, Washington. According to Oregon Crime Stoppers. Her death
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: was ruled a homicide after the meta examiner found multiple
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: stab wounds in her torso Washa Goold police said at
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: the time, so again, if they don't have anything that
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: they're working on or anything that they're confident in, how
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: can they rule these out? So we have to read
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: in between the lines. Unless the investigation is just utterly incompetent,
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: which I don't believe at this point, then my guess
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: is they have something more behind the scenes, and maybe
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: it's substantial. We have excellent investigators on these cases. As
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: we get critiqued by other people that don't have any
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: knowledge of it. It's always very interesting to be critiqued
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: by people who don't have knowledge of a specific case,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: he said, although he added that investigators would consider new
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: evidence if it's surfaced. No point being arrogant, mister Snell. Okay,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: you guys have no reason to be arrogant at this
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: point as investigators. If people are giving you tips, fine,
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: take the tips and keep it moving. The whole commentary
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: here oh being critiqued by people, and stop it. People
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: are going to critique what's going on. You don't have
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: a suspect in custody and four college kids are dead,
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: so people are going to critique your work. Now, people
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: who are saying it's a failed investigation or it's gone cold,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: stuff like that, that's a bit premature as well. But look,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: these investigators aren't above reproach and the passive aggressive nature
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: of the commentary is a bit silly. Based on what
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: they know from the other two cases, it doesn't seem
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: that they are the same, he said. As they continue
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to look for answers in the college killings, they're asking
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: the public for information on gonsolve this potential stalker, no
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: matter how small the details may be. Now, this is
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: where I run into a brick wall. Almost as close
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: as Kaylee was with her sister, her friends, as far
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: as Madison and the other girls, she didn't tell anybody
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: that she was super close to about this stalker. Why
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: would she only tell people she didn't really know about
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: the stalker? That doesn't seem to jive with me. Now,
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean she didn't have one most very well
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: could have. And when they're talking this much about it,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: my guess is that this stalker stuff has legs. But
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: she didn't tell anybody really about it, or else they'd
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: be able to find somebody who was close to her
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: that would be able to give them more details. We
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: feel that if there was a stalker, that would be
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: pretty important piece of information that we would want to know,
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Snell said. And so we have followed all the tips
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: and leads for that regard that we've been able to,
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: but we have not been able to corroborate anything. But
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: he said, if it's true there was a stalker, it
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: would be very important to the investigation. You know, sometimes
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: they're telling you things without telling you things, and I
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: think that's what mister Snell is doing here. My guess is, folks,
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: that that's what they're zeroing in on as far as
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: the investigation. A stalker. Somebody who was watching either Kaylee
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: or one of the other girls and decided that this
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: was going to be the night that they made their move.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: That's what this is all pointing to. At this point. Again,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: I don't have any concrete evidence of that or any
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: sort of source that I can point you to. But
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: when you read between the lines, and you have to
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: do that with these sorts of investigations, a lot of
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: times it's what they're not telling you. And when they
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: continually continuously are asking for information about this alleged stalker
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: and this person who was allegedly stalking Kayley, it leads
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: me to believe that they have something behind the scenes cooking.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: So it's very interesting and we'll have to see where
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: it goes. But everything we have learned so far and
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: everything we're hearing here certainly leads me to believe that
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: the investigators are on the track of some sort of
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: stalker and that's their working theory that some stalker killed
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: these kids. So obviously, the million dollar question for the
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: investigators and everybody else is who could this stalker possibly be?
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: All Right, folks, that's gonna do it for this one.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: at Bobby Kapuchi at ProtonMail dot com. That's b O
• 44:07
  Speaker 1: B B Y c A p U C c I
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: at ProtonMail dot com. Can also find me on Twitter
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: at b O B B Y underscore c A p
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: U C c I. The link that I discussed can
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box.