Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Money, Divorce and Single Motherhood with Melissa Meagher

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Money, Divorce and Single Motherhood with Melissa Meagher · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate the podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Finding the space for all of you in life and love.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Sally Ann Hartnell, and this podcast is for anyone wanting to reclaim and liberate themselves in their relationships and their lives.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever you are on your relationship journey, these conversations lead to you right there.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exalt deeply supportive deep interviews with other students.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Moving you from where you are to where you most want you to be.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Talking Money is all about changing people's lives by providing the tools, support, and framework to empower them to have clarity, awareness, and efficiency around their money.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: And Melissa creates safe spaces to have real conversations about money.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she's passionate about uncovering how our relationship with money impacts our motivations and behaviour every single day.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to have this conversation with Melissa.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's going to be a ripper.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hi Melissa, welcome to the podcast.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is great to have you.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: I thought we would kick off, and I wanted just to ask you if you could share a little bit about yourself, your journey, you know, who you are, what your biz is, why you do it.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's a lot of questions.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: How long are we got, Sally?
• 2:03
  unknown: All right.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Give us the you know the dot point version.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: The dot point version.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have been in my shall I talk about my business first?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in my business for um six years.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: My business is called Talking Money.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a money coach, and my business is called Talking Money.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, before that I had 20 plus years in the financial services industry, predominantly as a financial planner.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was a stockbroker in the tech boom, which was pretty wild and crazy times.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I also worked for a superannuation fund for seven years as a as a senior financial planner and a seminar delivery specialist.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I have had, you know, huge exposure to all things finance, worked with the big corporates, you know, Sun Super, the banks, and also small boutique financial planning firms.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I throughout my whole career, so there's this there's sort of two two-sided reason why I left corporate and why I started my own business.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the reason, you know, the main reason I started my own business was, well, at the time, and you know, obviously there's been huge learning since six over the six six years.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I thought, you know, that was like that was my learning.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then actually, no, that's actually when the only when the learning, learning begins.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can't hide behind a salary or a job title or anything else like that.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're you're 100% exposed, flapping in the wind.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the main, the main reason I started my business is that I had continually had these conversations with people that were absolute superstars at their at their what they did, um, whether it was their own business or whether they were, you know, um employed, you know, they were just really amazing at what they did.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: They were intelligent, they were switched on, they were motivated, all that sort of stuff.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: But the one thing that always seemed to be the sticking point was actually their um their knowledge, their financial literacy, their understanding about money.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's a that's a whole that's a whole conversation in itself as to why that reason was.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: But um but the outcome was it led to them feeling very ashamed and embarrassed about their financial situation because here they are looking, you know, these amazing people who are living this amazing life, this amazing career or business, um, and being, you know, ashamed, embarrassed about their financial situation really didn't fit in with that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, hence the embarrassment and shame, which then it led them on to making decisions that weren't necessarily serving them around their financial situation, and then they sort of, you know, slippery slope of going down the rabbit hole of that.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I kept, it didn't matter where I was or who I was serving or who I was talking to.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I continually had these conversations with people around that.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then for other, you know, for a myriad of different reasons, which I'll share with you in a sec, about why I left Corpor.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: It became very clear to me very, very quickly, as I, you know, call it, I put myself into sort of you know an incubation period to actually be able to sort of see what you know, what I wanted to be when I when I grew up around being when I'm about, you know, the ripe old age of 40 something, but um that I wanted to create a safe space to have a real conversation around money, not what you want the society, friends and family to see on the outside, not what you feel it should look like, not you know, with the expectations and stuff like that.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it was actually to have a real conversation around money.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you've had that, once you sort of, you know, pull that curtain back and really shine the light on it, it's only then you can actually start doing something about it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's it was all about that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's so interesting.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've not heard you explain it like that before because it's not dissimilar to the way I work and why I do what I do in terms of relationships.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of my clients come to me and they go, you know, on the outside, on the surface, it all looks great.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've got this life, I can tick all the boxes, but there's this little secret sneaky bit that's not working for me.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not happening.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for my for my crew, that's their relationship, but for your clients, it's their money.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So which could could be having a big impact on their relationship too.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: Vice and you know, vice versa, feeding feeding off one another.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested to know about whether your own relationship and you're a single mum, so your whether your own relationship and separation story kind of informed your business, your choices around your business.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, 100%.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: But it didn't, the penny didn't drop until, you know, well along the way of, and you know, I'm sort of fairly open about sharing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, as as I've as I've grown and you know, and I've been through self-development coaching and stuff like that, I've actually had huge aha moments of actually realizing how it was all it everything's just dropped in, which actually makes me a bloody good coach because I've it's not, you know, it's not the 20 years of experience, it's not all the bells and whistles, because this is what I say very openly to women now, you know, from the outside.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I did a ran a workshop last week and slide ones, you know, qualifications, experience, all what I've done, and da-da-da-da.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I sort of say, you know, I look pretty damn good, don't I?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I look on paper, I look pretty damn good.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Next next slide's actually my real story.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, me, my relationship with money or my talk, you know, my unhealthy relationship with money was was one of the main contributing factors in my marriage ending.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: 10, you know, nearly 10 years ago with two very small children.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it nearly, it nearly um crippled my business when I started because there's nothing like starting your own business to um, you know, for every single money belief you've got to be triggered the absolute, you know, the absolute bejeebas out of it.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was it's all these uh experiences I've had, you know, I've only I've even had just some recent ones about beliefs and programming and conditioning, about how, you know, about it being too easy to get clients now.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's gone to the other, you know, it was just a recent realization I've had that because I've got a very, you know, there's a very strong, which I didn't realize that if it's too easy to get clients, then I actually self-sabotage myself because it's it has to be really hard work and it has to be a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's there's this continual, continual thing.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, 100%.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's so on my personal situation, um, and that's where I can, you know, I can hand on heart say to any woman, whatever you're experiencing, I've been there and I've experienced it.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I can 100% say that.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, and the other side of things is the understanding and you know, being loud and proud of actually understanding that I I am a non-conformist.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am, you know, I've I was I've been unemployable all my life, basically.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, you know, people kept trying to shove me in a box, and you know, I say think starfish formation.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was doing of trying to be shoved in a box, which obviously, you know, it didn't play out too well for me in a number of you know, a number of jobs.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: But being told in one of my first job interviews, yeah, we don't I don't think you'll fit here.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're not really a team player.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: You think too far outside the box.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just like, you can't meant to be negative.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but now I look back and go, wow, what an awesome compliment.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: And sorry, I don't know.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know, I know.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just like it's so it's owning it, and they're the women that I want to support.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're the and then I look around, they are the woman I women I'm supporting.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's just a but it's it's actually owning my space and actually then owning that, you know, the the type of women that I, you know, that are non-conformist, are rebellious, are, you know, do think outside the box, are not comfortable with the status quo, which is, you know, which would be a lot of the women that you're talking to and supporting as well.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they're just like, you know what?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm actually not I'm not available for this anymore.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not settling for white bread anymore.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not, I want the whole freaking party.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You started to talk before about beliefs and money stories, and I'm really interested in in that.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, shifting the limiting beliefs, rewriting the stories.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So can you share a little bit about how those stories or beliefs or mindsets, whatever you want to call, I'm not sure, how are they formed for us?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: How is our relationship with money formed?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so all our beliefs are formed by about the age of seven.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, you know, when we're little people, they say, you know, we they take children take everything like, you know, sponges or like little, you know, with no filter.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually true.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: We're taking everything that's going on around us, and we actually take in, you know, with no filter what we believe.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what forms our, you know, forms our beliefs, forms our programming, all that sort of stuff.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then as we get older, they get further reinforced and ingrained with, you know, experiences and that sort of thing.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the thing is, because we've taken these in when we're little people, some of them are, you know, well, a lot of them are not even true and actually are not serving us at all.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's very interesting.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was having this conversation with two women the other day, two sisters, and we were saying, you know, isn't it interesting how you can grow up in the same household, same upbringing, and have completely different, you know, about anything about money, about, you know, any relationships, relationships, any, you know, all that sort of stuff, but mostly on, you know, for focus on money.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's because we've it's what we've taken on ourselves and formed as our, you know, ingrained as our beliefs and our programming and stuff like that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about for me, the money story, our money story, which is, you know, how money was spoken about when you're growing up, how you feel about money, how you know, how would you describe your current relationship with money, um, you know, how was what was your mother's relationship with money, what was your father's relationship with money, even what was your grandparents' relationship with money, because all these beliefs are really passed down through our family of origin because that's where we, that's where we, you know, that's where we get the bulk of our our stuff.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's we spend our time before we're seven.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's and it's not about going back and blaming our family or blaming our parents or whatever.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually just creating that awareness of just going, oh wow.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't have to be, you know, deep, dark, traumatic events or anything like that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a realization of where that's showing up.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, so for my example before, about, you know, it has to still be, which I didn't realize I still had.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to be hard, you've got to work.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be hard work, you've got to work hard for it, you've got to earn it, it's got to be, you know, got to be a lot of blood, sweat, and tears.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and which is complete rubbish.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's not true.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a very, you know, it's a very limiting scarcity and lack belief around that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, there's nothing wrong with hard work and you know, all that sort of stuff, but it's not, it's, it's actually not a it's not a um abundant, um, you know, it's not an abundant, expansive belief.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, and that's a realization for me recently that that was, you know, that that was still playing out in my business of me going, you know, of being in flow, being in the zone, and you know, these amazing women coming in.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then, and then I go, Oh, seriously, it just can't be this easy.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: It can't, and look, you know, it actually can.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then I'd go and, you know, energetically chop myself off at the knees.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've still got that, I've still got that program playing.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: So recognizing that it's playing and oh, it's showing up again.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: What am I going to do about it this time?
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, and I I mean, I challenge anyone, and I say this pretty much every day of my life, but I challenge anyone that how money was spoken about when we were growing up is not showing up either directly how you relate or interact with money or how you spend money, showing up in your personal relationships, which you would see a huge amount of that, yeah, or showing up in your professional life.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or for me, I got the trifecta and I got all three.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Which does lead me to the next question I wanted to ask, because I'm especially keen to hear about single women's or separating women who are separating their money stories.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think or do you believe that um a woman's money story shifts or changes at those key or pivotal moments in life, like a separation or divorce?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes and no.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think they, I think, yeah, absolutely they can, depending on what was going on in the in the in the relationship.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I and you know, as you know, I I I support a lot of women that are actually post, you know, post-separation or and you know, it's so funny when you I think you may you were talking about the other day in something of yours.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's you know, we think we've got to go and reinvent ourselves.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not about reinventing ourselves, it's actually rediscovering ourselves.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So for some reason, um, women, and you know, it's it can be to do with a lot of our stories and stuff like that, that you know, we were told we weren't good with numbers, or you know, girls aren't good with finance, or girls aren't good with math, or you know, whatever, whatever the programming or the stories or you know, the beliefs that we had.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes in a relationship, and it can go both ways too, but obviously we're talking about women here, um, that women absolve or give away their power and absolve all responsibility to their partner to look after the finances, to look after what's going on, which is, you know, that's all great and fantastic if everything's going well.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: I will challenge that too, by the way, but it's because they've totally disempowered themselves.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then if something does go wrong or the relationship does end or something like that, um they're completely flapping around in the wind.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because they've got no, you know, women I've supported don't even know what, they don't even know what they don't know because they don't know what's going on.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Which is which is terrifying.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: That they are in a situation in a partnership in, you know, 2021 and they've got no idea what what their finances are, what the um the flow of funds, their bank accounts, you know, investments, you know, all that sort of stuff.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: That actually really terrifies me that women are in, and these aren't these are these are intelligent, professional, you know, motive, you know, these aren't shrinking violets, but they this is a part that they have just completely given away their power.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, absolved, and I, you know, I have challenged a few of them and have really absolved all responsibility of being involved in the finances.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's there's a lot to say for splitting out tasks in a partnership, be it a business partnership or an intimate partnership, splitting out tasks and giving people power in the things that they're good at.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just posted something yesterday about missing the fact that my ex- my ex-husband used to do all the all the ironing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Hate ironing.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Hate it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: Give it to me.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I still know how to iron.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: I always knew how to iron.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this isn't the same thing.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter, doesn't mean you have to do it all and be across it all if it's not your thing.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, in our relationship, in our marriage, he loved it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like he had spreadsheets and it's all tracked, still is.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't love it like that, but I was across it.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: I knew what was happening on the yeah.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's about that knowledge and visibility.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you don't want to opt into doing all the ironing.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And look, the the analogy I use is sometimes particularly with, and you know, and it's couples as well.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know what I mean?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's supporting couples that are still in a, you know, a happy, healthy relationship, but they've got to the point where they actually can't have a conversation around money anymore.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just so emotionally charged and feel because such a big part of our identity is so inextricably entwined around our relationship with money.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's such a big part of our identity and our ego and everything.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's so emotive that it just goes, it just goes, you know, it explodes very, very quickly.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So what I mean, my analogy that I see with couples is you know, either together or but they're, you know, they're in different trains on different train tracks heading in different directions, particularly when it comes to you know what they're wanting to do, what they're wanting to accomplish, their, you know, their financial aspirations or dreams or whatever.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so my goal is to have them in the same train on the same track, train track, heading the same direction.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now that doesn't mean they'd have to both have to be driving the train, but to your point, because that doesn't work.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: But like, and so then I because I always often see there's this huge, there's someone shouldering the load, and there's someone having nothing to do with it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So it's bringing the person, you know, empowering and educating and forming the person that's not involved, which then brings the person that's having to shoulder the load, because they don't want to be doing that necessarily either, to be on, you know, to be working as a team, as you said, doesn't mean that everyone has to do everything and be all over everything.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: It just means that there has to be a communication, understanding, um, all that sort of stuff in a relationship.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: So getting back to your point is if that hasn't been happening in a relationship, and then women actually leave, that can cause huge distress and anxiety and worry and concern because they actually don't know what to do.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And as you said before, they don't know what they don't know.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, and there's, you know, there can be all different levels of just not being in, you know, absolving all responsibility of them being involved.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the you know, the extent of that where there's been financial abuse and coercive control through money and stuff like that.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: So there's, you know, there's a whole spectrum of why that net might have might not have been happening, but it's it's kind of the same outcome sometimes with because they're just they're totally disempowered.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and dealing with that.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Around money and finances.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: It is actually something that I work with with my clients, particularly those who are still in relationship working out whether they want to stay or whether they want to go, you know, identifying those parts of their life where they do feel disempowered and they and and they have given potentially given away their power, and money is one of those that repeatedly, regularly comes up.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I had a I had a woman contact, I mean, I had a number of conversations with her, but she's not quite ready to do anything just yet.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: But she know, I mean, had the her reason for contacting me was that she was thinking about possibly separating, um, but she didn't really know what was going on, and there'd been some issues around some decisions around money and loss of trust and and that sort of stuff.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: So she, but it, you know, but there's a conversation, you know, I had quite a few conversations with.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really about her, you know, feeling not, you know, not disconnected, not disempowered, but like even if being in the relationship.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So once she's got all that information, while she's got all that knowledge and understanding of what's going on, then she can.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Make a, you know, a calculated assessment of whether she wants to stay or go, but it's not going to stop her from doing either.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the key.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: If she knows what she knows, you know, knows what's what in the, you know, in the pot, what pot and the money pot and knowing her numbers and stuff like that, it's not going to stop her from leaving a relationship or it's not going to stop her from staying in the relationship.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: And the knowledge also empowers because the not the knowledge um enables you to make a clear decision.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: You're not afraid either to stay or to go.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, 100%.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting because people feel like they they don't want to look at the money, they don't look at their bank accounts because, you know, out of out of sort of out of sight, out of mind, out of sight, and all that sort of stuff.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: But it's actually what's keeping them small, what's keeping them disempowered, is actually not knowing, not knowing their numbers, not knowing understanding what makes up their money pot.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, by far the most liberating thing that I do with clients is actually get them to, you know, track what they spend.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's people with, you know, without emotion, without blame, without judgment or anything like that, but actually get an understanding of what they're actually spending.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's you know, it's the one I get the most resistance from.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like what you want me to, you want me to track what I spend.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but it's it's it's for them, it's it's hands down the most liberating and empowering, you know, thing that we there's a lot of things we do, but like I mean, it's it's it's amazing what they get from that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Just understand knowing what's going on.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, I mean, there's all different versions of that in, you know, with finances and couples and separated and all that sort of stuff.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's yeah, as you said, knowledge is power and money, and knowledge is power and and clarity and money loves clarity because numbers don't lie.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: They are they are what they are.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and that clarity, you know, when when I bring it back to what we're talking about, you know, it's stay or go, that that asking that, asking yourself that question, clarity enables you to answer that question for yourself.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: So clarity around all sorts of things, but particularly clarity around money, if you know your numbers, as you said, your numbers won't don't lie.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: They can support you to make a really empowered educated decision.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, and you kind of know what's coming.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it takes away some of that fear.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just yeah, it takes the sting out of the tail, you know what I mean?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there is no, and there's no surprises of, you know, whatever.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, which leads me to my next question I wanted to ask you.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think we both, and we touched on this earlier, we both sort of work about work with our clients and rediscovering and reclaiming ours of themselves and really empowering them.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you talk a lot about in your work about shedding identities and you encourage or act you actively support your clients to go after and make a shit ton of money.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I love it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to with an ask with an asterisk, of course.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: An SH asterisk T ton of money.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess it's a kind of a two-pronged question about you know the shedding of the identity and then the going after.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do that with your clients?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think what, and you know, this is probably with you know, being a money coach and coming in where I come, and I'm you know, you would absolutely 100% experience this as well.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we've got a fairly niche space that we're in.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: But you mean my favorite saying of all time is I come in on the m come in on the money, but it's never just about the money.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: The money is the effect, not the cause.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever else is going on in our lives can be showing up, you know, because our identity is so tied to money, and you know, we were talking about before, it can be showing up in the money.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to clear the space around the money and then actually understand what those you know underlying motivations and behaviors are that are driving that.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's you know, I mean, that's where my, you know, the money coaching is.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's around, you know, the tangible, know your numbers, understand your money pot, clear the space, then go and have a look at our money, you know, our mindset around money, um, you know, our money stories, our beliefs and programming.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then that opens up a whole space, which is you know what happened when my clients we were doing this work and they said, you know, we'd finish, I'd finish my program, and they'd go, well, okay, what are we doing?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: What are we doing next?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so then that went, oh what I've been saying for the last six years, I come in on the money, and it's never just about the money, it has actually come to fruition.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just looking at that bigger piece around um, you know, identities as a as a mother, as a partner, as a daughter, as a, you know, it's just because we carry, particularly like as women, we carry around these identities like a like that, I've just got that vision of that harness on a, you know, on a on a draft horse that just and it's just it's really holding us back of fully, you know, stepping into our power.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, and as I said, you know, as you said, living life on our own terms, but do we actually really even know what living life on our own terms even means?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we have to go back and you know, question the status quo, question, you know, about you know, about disentangling from identities and stuff like that.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: To actually expectations, responsibilities, yeah, players and layers and stories.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who are we?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Who are we?
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I mean, it's it's it's so it's become a bigger piece for me of supporting women, you know, of in growing their businesses, um, you know, one transitioning from corporate into their own business, yeah, you know, all sorts of it's showing up in all sorts of different areas now.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and but it's all around, you know, I guess the best overall term is around mindset, but it's not just about money.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why I want to have the, you know, the non-conformist, the rebellious that actually, you know, because people go, oh, you know, what sort of women, you know, and I always say it's not a demographic, it's a psychographic for me about the women that I want to support and work with that are open and ready to really like question the that and to live life.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, throw it all up in the air and see how it lands.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, a lot of women leaving marriages and and you know, all that sort of stuff.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're that's the space that they're going into.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: It could be, you know, it could be a bit rocky and a bit messy at the start, but that's essentially what they're they're not they're not settling, as you said, they're not selling for white bread anymore.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, they're not settling, and that's you know, that can be a that can be a very dangerous place to be, is just settling.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you think you're choosing safe, you think you're choosing uh secure, but really you're not choosing you.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: You're not choosing you.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, and you know how comfortable is being uncomfortable in lots of different areas.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: How how comfortable is being uncomfortable?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right, living life on your own terms.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know you talk about it with your clients, and now I'm gonna shine the light on you.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, what does living life on your own terms mean for you?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I have been on my own for about four years, so that's been I've been pretty uh, but you know, I've got you know, raising my children are now teenagers, so that becomes its own um interesting challenges and um things to navigate and experience and that sort of thing.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think um you know, post my marriage I had another long-term relationship that didn't end up being funnily enough, thought it was my night in shining armor and was anything but my marriage was a walking apart compared to this relationship.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it was um, I think you know, I I've been on my own for about four years now.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've actually just really had that and really happy and comfortable on my own too.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a, it's not a, it's just a it's just uh, it's not a oh, you know, I'm not in a holding, I'm not in a waiting room, I'm not in a holding pattern or anything like that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not adverse to meeting someone, but I've just been really comfortable and I'm you know some would say maybe a little bit too comfortable, but anyway, it's just but it's um I've just had the opportunity and to really honor myself and give myself that space to probably more you know, to work through stuff from my marriage, work through stuff from my other the other relationship.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so I can 100% fully show up as myself, yeah um, and then you know, 100% live life on my terms.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's and you know, it's because that's that's what I'm doing.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's it's it's just it's being able to be 100% show up for myself, so I can 100% show up for my clients, the people I serve, um, for my children, you know, so it's actually I really get to do to get live life on my own terms, and I'm really clear on what that is, what that is now.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm clear about if I, you know, if when or if when um I am in another relationship of what that will look like for me.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm so so clear on that now.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I've had to have that time, you know, once again, you want to call it incubation period of that time or whatever, to get really, really clear of what that means for me, which involved, you know, shedding I shedding identities, um you know, about my relationship with money, um, how that showed up in in personal relationships, um, then you know, starting my business, it showed up again big time.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, just that that continual understanding of and that awareness.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: And once you have those awarenesses, you can, you know, if you can do it on your own, or you can get the support of, you know, people like us or whatever, to actually to be able to shed them and let them go and and then actually be able to step into that space of what is actually possible.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, going from the what is probable to the actual what is possible.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the exciting, that's the exciting bit.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so exciting.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Shedding the identities, peeling off the layers, and really getting back to who you are at your core, at your essence, and how you can be in that power every day.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's not that's not to say we don't we don't make mistakes or we don't sidestep and have what we're doing.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Work in progress, work in progress, work in progress.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: Another one here.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is a this is a marathon, this is a marathon on a sprint, people.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: But how exciting is it to be actually in that space, you know, once again, getting uncomfortable, getting, you know, having, you know, I've always had a coach who challenges the absolute, you know, stuff out of me.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: I get off sometimes and go, oh, but anyway, you know what I mean, yeah, it's just it's it's having someone that's gonna, you know, challenge you, but just and but hold the space and support you and um you know, be there and you know, just to be there for you, just support you and hold the space and stuff like that, and whatever, you know, with the relationship or with their money situation or you know, whatever it is, but actually just have someone on your team.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: And have someone who's one, two, ten steps ahead of you.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: Not not a mile ahead, but just one, two, ten steps so they can say, keep stepping forward.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know how it feels, I know how it feels to feel uncomfortable, but you know, I'm giving proof, and so is that client over there and that client over there that if you step forward into that un discomfort, yes, good things will happen.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Good things are coming.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I I saw it, I'm just trying to, you just reminded me of a saying that I shared the other day, and it wasn't unfortunately it wasn't mine, but um, it's a beautiful one, you know, momentum will create resistance.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: See any resistance, doubt, uncertainty as a sign you're forging ahead.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: So don't think of it as a oh, I can't do it.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually, oh yeah, I'm on the I'm on, I'm doing it, I'm on the right track.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: How can people find you?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: What's coming up for you in terms of your programs and how can people find you?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I've got a um a three-month group program that I'm actually just in the process of filling at the moment.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: So a 12-week group program, which I'm super excited about.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, it's bringing a group of women together to have these conversations.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I uh I was very um lucky being in Queensland to run a live event last week with in women in the flesh, people in the flesh, which was you know fantastic.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it just it's so reinforced having these women in the room, sharing their stories, you know, sharing what's going on for them, um, all that sort of stuff, and just you know, and then continuing that conversation in a group, you know, group container, yeah.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is amazing.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I'm really, really excited about.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it's you know, it's done over Zoom, it's you know, it's accessible to everyone and anybody.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um, you know, that's so that's super exciting.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I still do my one-on-one, um, one-on-one coaching.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, that's um that's what's that's what I've got going on at the moment.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just yeah, and I have I've got capacity at the moment to to take, as I said, I'm filling my group container.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um so love to anyone that's interested in having a chat about that.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll drop the link.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so drop the link in the show notes and people can contact you directly.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, follow me on social media or they can message me or what however, however they want to get hold of me.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd love to run some more live events, but I'm just sort of gently, gently with everything that's happening at the moment.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: My last question is a question that I ask all of my podcast guests.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I ask them to choose a song.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: So if you could choose a song that would support women to step in their power about into their power about their money or something along those lines, what would your song be?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've pondered this when since you asked, you know, in the things, and I just um it's a bit, it's a bit weird, it's a bit different.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: But if you if you're wondering why the hell I'm using this one, go and actually read the lyrics.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's a Bon Jovi song, and it's called Wanted Better Alive.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just about it's living life on your terms.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually being, you know, and if you go and actually look at the lyrics or read the look at read the lyrics and everything, you'll understand what it means.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, it's just walking your own, treading, walking your own path, which you know, to me is living living life on your terms.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always been a you know, savage Bon Jovi fan.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well and truly showing my age then.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome, awesome.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_01: Melissa, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing all of your money, wisdom, and stories.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, all of the show, I'll drop all of the links to for people to connect with you into the show notes.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for being with us.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was the amazing powerhouse.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is Melissa Maher of Talking Money.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_01: Melissa shows rebellious women how to make a shit ton of money by unapologetically being their bold and audacious selves.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was super thrilled to welcome Melissa onto the podcast, and I hope you got a lot out of it.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, Relationship Coach, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow me on Instagram at ReflectCoaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love this episode, please, please share it with them.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also be so grateful if you'd follow the podcast and review this episode so we can get it in the ears of a whole lot more humans just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll join me next time for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Until then.