Latest / The Dave Allen Show / 05/23/2024 Dale Cooper on 580 Live - Andrew Donaldson, Amelia Knisely

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05/23/2024 Dale Cooper on 580 Live - Andrew Donaldson, Amelia Knisely · The Dave Allen Show

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nineteen and logan today. Five eighty livewc HS The Voice of charleson A'mdel Cooper
1:10
filling in for Dave Allen just for today. Dave will be back tomorrow to
1:14
take the handles on his Friday show, Have a nice show for you today.
1:18
I'm going to bring a lot of information and some insights and opinion.
1:23
Andrew Donaldson's going to join me, coming up here in just a minute.
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He's from Hotel Show, Fayetteville Trib the Ordinary Times editor over there, and
1:34
he's a media observer among other things, and we're going to talk a little
1:37
bit about media literacy, seeking primary sources, locality, things along those lines.
1:42
That's going to be the first part of the show. And then Amelia
1:45
Nicely is going to join me in the second part of the program. Of
1:47
course, she's with West Virginia Watch. She has been one of the leading
1:49
reporters on the various things that's been going on at a Department of Health and
1:57
Human Resources and also the the mess at the CPS with with the emanciated child
2:02
that was found dead and some of the fallout that's happening from that, all
2:07
the way through last night where we had a blow up from CPS. We
2:12
had a reporter FROMSAZ that was banned from the Capitol. A lot of stuff
2:15
that's going on. We're going to talk about those things and get kind of
2:19
an update on how those things are breaking out. You're welcome to reach out
2:22
today. Our text line numbers three zerre a four non three five five zero
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zero eight. That's three zero four non three five five zero zero eight.
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That's a number you can call to reach out on text. Our phone number
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three zero four three four five fifty eight fifty eight. Three zero four three
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four five fifty eight fifty eight is the regular phone number, of course,
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that you can call in to get a hold of us. And that's what
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we have one tap for you today. Let's go ahead and go to the
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It's not the phone line, it's the zoom line. I guess. Andrew
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Donaldson is joining me now. And I've had Andrew on the show a couple
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of times before. I always enjoy when we're able to chat a little bit
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about media and radio and things like that. Andrew, good morning, How
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you doing this morning? Marn the award winning five eighty wh has two more
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mores this week. Congratulations, my friend, Thank you. We appreciate that.
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Uh. Speaking of local news and what we like to do, that's
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uh, that's kind of our bread and butter. That's what we'd like to
3:09
do here. So a couple more MOREAU awards this year for for newscast that
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we did the the Regal Apartment fires wash and that was a that was an
3:19
interesting one, uh. That one had many facets involved. That happened during
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the Reds caravan. So I was me and Dave Allen were over covering the
3:28
the Red's caravan and we were sort of anchoring that live coverage into Hoppy who
3:32
was actually here because of the legislature at the time, and so he was
3:37
actually reporting on the ground from the Regal apartment fire while we were doing the
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caravan, and we put all that stuff one air live. It actually ended
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up ended up working out pretty well, but it was that was a big
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story that that that got us through on the Moureau this time around. And
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there's always something that happens and local news is where it's at as far as
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that goes. Yeah, well, it's funny you mentioned that because it's you
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know, the behind the scenes stuff people don't see it. But sometimes the
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craziest stuff that happens accidentally winds up being the most important stuff you do.
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That's true in life in a lot of ways. You know, you think
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of things with your kids that just happen, or something to work that you
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didn't expect. That's how news works a lot, and it goes to a
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testament how good our local media. I didn't really realize growing up how spoiled
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I was and how good West Virginia has it with media, especially their local
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media, until I kind of left and saw what other people have and now
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coming back and doing some local media myself, even though I've got more national
4:28
stuff going. We're so blessed for it, but you don't realize it.
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But a lot of times it's kind of accidental, but it's being prepared.
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It's like, Okay, we have this local knowledge. This thing has broken
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open, we know how to report on, we know how to cover it,
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and local media is really important. It's funny you say it that way,
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because that kind of gets to the heart of it. Is like when
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news breaks or something happens, or you have a really big event like that
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fire, like when the river got contaminated or something really really big COVID shutdowns.
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Everybody had the same problem, but it affected localities differently. The local
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folks know how to cover that ba better than just the national news story.
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That's going and you lose a local flavor. So it's a perfect example that
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you bring up with those fires, is like you knew exactly where to go,
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you knew how to cover it, you knew how to hand it off.
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Even with the reds in town. You know, you just cover it.
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And that's turns into some of the most important stuff you do, even
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though it's accidental, but it's because you're prepared to have the local knowledge to
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do it. Yeah, you know, it's really something else when this is
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one of those things that I believe is true, but I can't necessarily prove
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it right now. Back when the drectro hit in the Charleston area, and
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that was a big national story because there was not just West Virginia was the
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effect that it hit a large area. West Virginia was part of it.
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There was all kinds of emergency response, people on the ground, different things
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like that. I took a call in our newsroom that was someone that was
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frantically asking for They were looking for that they heard an interview that was on
5:46
air. They needed a number for somebody who was trying to get information.
5:48
It was a reporter from the New York Times, and he was telling me
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that they were listening to the WHS feed in the New York Times, like
5:56
Environmental Newsroom or whatever, and that's where they were getting some of their some
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of their information from to pivot to tell their stories, to go after what
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they were gonna to h to pursue. And I'm kind of convinced that not
6:09
enough of that goes on anymore because from what I've seen from a lot of
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national reporting, whether and when it's from an area that you're familiar with and
6:16
so you know, you kind of know what's going on when you see national
6:19
reporting now the local flavor is gone. It's like somebody is taking their sitting
6:25
in their office somewhere they're like, you know, what would be a compelling
6:27
story? What if I found somebody that thought this, and then you keep
6:30
going until you find that narrative instead of finding the thing that actually comes up
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naturally. Yeah, there's a lot of that. Another great example we just
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had was the tornadoes. Steve Keenan, who's the one of the editors at
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Fate Tribune, where I get to do a little bit of writing for,
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you know, people covered that and said, oh, well, it hit
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this area of Fayette County outside a Haiko. You know I grew up going
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to church in hik I'm like, oh, those are the houses rbside Bandy
6:55
Snoko I knew exactly where it was. But Steve, because he covers Fette
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County all the time, he didn't just say, oh, this area.
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He knew exactly whose house to go to when right to the carts talked to
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him, wrote up this great piece of the lady. You know, she's
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out getting a smoke in the garage right because she's staying with her the hudder
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and law, you know how those kind of things go. And she's in
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the garage when the tornado hits and he interviews her, so instead of just
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it's this house that got hit, he gets the story of, yeah,
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she's in this garage. The door blows off, the roof goes three hundred
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and fifty yards across the street. She's wedged between the doorframe and the freezer.
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The freezer goes into the neighbor's yards about eighty yards and she gets sucked
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through the doors. It gets destroyed, but she only goes about fifteen twenty
7:32
feet at a couple broken toes and some scrapes and bruises and torne up a
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little bit, but relatively unscaped. That's an incredible story. But if he
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doesn't know who to go to and actually talk to, it's just another Uh.
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There was no serious injuries and these houses were destroyed, but she don't
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get that great local story because he knew exactly where to go to. And
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I'm really proud to get a work with stuff. I think it's changing.
7:54
Everything's been so nationalized the last eight to ten years, especially the Trump era,
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because Trump has been the biggest thing to happen in news media business.
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I'm not talking politics, I'm talking business wise. It's the biggest business thing
8:05
that happened, good, bad, or and different. He drives ratings,
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draws money. Everything's nationalized. I think there's this move now if people like.
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The other problem with everything being nationalized is now everybody's saying the same thing.
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They're saying the same way, and they're all it's just repeat, repeat,
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repeat. There's so much stuff, especially the online realm where I write
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an edit, so much stuff is just copies of copies of copies of what
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somebody else did. People want to know national news, but they want the
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local flavor of it too. It's like, Okay, this container ship hit
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Baltimore. What does that have to do with West Virginia. Well, that's
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one of the main coal ports that West Virginia's coal imports go through. That's
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going to effect. You can cover the national stories still that everybody sees that
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go viral and put the local spin on it. I think that's the future
8:45
of it, and I think that's what people really want. They want those
8:48
big news, they just want to know what their little piece of it and
8:50
how it affects them comes with it. I really hope that you're right that
8:52
we've come to like a slingshot effect where we got so far out where I
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think we literally had people making up conversations they had in done at one point.
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I mean, I'm convinced that that we just had, like you have,
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plagiarism that was running rampant at some points and times in journalism. I
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think we had people that were just making up narratives whole wholesale, undoubtedly to
9:11
further certain perspectives or to get certain headlines or clicks or whatever it might be.
9:15
And it may not be everybody yet, but there has to be a
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pushback on that, and I think we are starting to see that some you
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brought up a point we were talking the other day just on something that's a
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relatively it's I mean, it's political season. It's it's during campaigning and things
9:28
like that. President Biden went and spoke at at the Moorhouse ceremony, and
9:33
you brought up to me just the way that was covered differently from the local,
9:37
from the from the d C Press Corps, and from the folks that
9:39
were on the ground that were local to around the more heady that was.
9:43
Those two things were startlingly different. Yeah, my buddy Donald Suggs, who's
9:48
the editor in chief of the Atlanta Voice, that's a traditional black newspaper.
9:50
This was a campaign event to shore up the black bass for President Biden.
9:54
He has to have that base. That's how he got elected. Remember when
9:56
South Carolina Jim Cladborne came out. This is important to him. So it
10:01
was a concerted effort and Morehouse college for folks that don't know that is it
10:05
not only a traditional historic black college, it's also spiritually really really important.
10:11
Senator Rafael Warnock went there. You know, these are people that are supposed
10:13
to come into the community and do stuff. So this was a really big
10:16
deal. But it was funny he would for folks that don't know. The
10:20
White House Press Corps travels with the president, but then they pick up local
10:24
press corps for the press pool. So Donnelle was in the press pool for
10:28
this. He's in the motor cad, he's riding in the vans. He
10:30
was standing in to the base of Air Force One. He did all this,
10:33
but then they go to the campaign event and he has to explain what
10:35
the Arthur Blank Foundation. Now. Arthur Blank, if you're a sports fan,
10:37
you recognize him as being the owner of the Atlanta Falcons. He runs.
10:41
You know, he's the founder Home Depot, big, big money player,
10:45
right, But the local guys all know about Arthur Blank, even the
10:48
White House Press Corps like where are we And he has to say, oh,
10:50
this is the Arthur Blank Foundation. We're sitting here, this is why
10:52
we're doing this. This is a campaign stop. And he you know,
10:56
he goes to Morehouse all the time, he covers their basketball games. He's
10:58
in that community. So he's like, I kind of became the guide to
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show them. We're going to go through here and we're going to go buy
11:03
this building. We're going to sit down. Because he had that local flavor.
11:05
So while they're doing these national narratives, the local guy who is supposed
11:11
to be the audience for this whole trip is Tanning. They're going, you
11:13
know, I'm right hearing you, just talk to me. And then we
11:15
had the perfect example this. I had him on my program on Tuesday and
11:18
listen to at Hotel show anywhere he gets your podcasts. He had the perfect
11:22
example of this mess that was on CNN the other day where they're talking about
11:26
the Diddy p Diddy Puff Daddy in this video of him beating this woman and
11:30
they have this other rapper on and don El's one of those like, we
11:33
have all these journalists that could talk to this immediately, why are you putting
11:37
a rapper on TV? And there was a lot of blowback in CNN,
11:39
got a lot of crisp it's absolutely right, Like you don't think there's people
11:41
that have been beat reporters in hip hop for fifteen twenty years that could speak
11:45
to that a whole lot better. It's stuff like that that people are starting
11:48
to push back. I don't think it's going to be a slingshot. I
11:50
think it's going to be a gradual thing. But at some point the good
11:52
folks that just want good information are starting to push back on this stuff because
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they're not getting good information. They're just getting sameness, loudness, and everything's
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turned into the Jerry Springer Show. I know that's dating me because it's a
12:03
generational thing, still true, but it's crash TV because it sells, but
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it also burns out your audience after a certain period of time. It's going
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to come back around a little bit. And I think marrying local news to
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national news in the narrative where everybody's kind of on the same page, but
12:18
it's it's delineated down for the specific audience you're aiming it at instead of just
12:24
journalized everything. I think that's where this is going to go, and I
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think it's going to be a healthy move. I think it's gonna be better
12:28
for everybody. Andrew Donaldson is joining me this morning. He is from The
12:31
Hotel Show, also from Ordinary Times, and writes for The Ville Tribune on
12:37
a guest status from time to time, writing opinion pieces over there, well
12:43
written and well researched and nice perspectives from Andrew that he always shares. I'll
12:46
send some information out. I'm getting some people asking about you so I want
12:50
to make sure that I get your information out so people can find you,
12:52
and I'll send that out after the show as well. I'll share some social
12:56
media at five adwchs where you can find Andrew online and the various imprints.
13:01
One of the things I like, and I'm going to tell if you don't
13:01
mind holding through the break, we'll take a quick break, come back and
13:03
wrap up our portion of the show. Amanda Nicey or a million Nisily by
13:07
the way, is going to join me in the second part of the show.
13:09
We're going to talk about all this stuff that's been going on with cpsd
13:13
HHR, with what happened last night with the WSAZ report. There's a lot
13:20
of stuff going on. We're not gonna be able to catch up on all
13:22
of it, but we're going to try to catch up on some of it
13:24
as these stories start to break. But one of the things that you have
13:28
you're one of the editors for Ordinary Times, and one of the things that
13:31
I love about that publication is that you bring together writers from different perspectives and
13:37
people talk about this all the time. Is as you know, as something
13:41
to try to strive for and achieve. A very few people actually try to
13:43
put it together. But you do have voices that are from conservative, from
13:48
libertarian, from liberal viewpoints, and you kind of bring them together that have
13:50
different outlooks on the way that they express things. But what I like about
13:54
it is it really takes it down to those people commenting on things from their
13:58
perspective, but in a fact base way. So there is a way to
14:03
share perspective that is that it's true to your beliefs, but you don't have
14:07
to get involved in the noise where you're trying to lead conversations with these national
14:11
headlines and things like that that really just don't have context at nuanced levels.
14:16
No, it's just really hard. There's no super secret sauce to it.
14:18
There's no mystery, it's not magic. Everybody knows that you can have a
14:22
decent conversation with somebody you disagree with as long as you keep it on a
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certain level. It's just really, really hard because it's easier to have your
14:30
you know, your in groups and your echo chambers. You can have your
14:33
little niches, you can have your trial. Look, it's hard. I
14:35
fall into it too. Actually, my editor, primary editor that goes through
14:39
my stuff is completely diametrically opposed politically to all my viewpoints. And that's on
14:43
purpose because I get that outside viewpoint of how is this coming across to another
14:48
eye. It's not changing what I'm saying or believing. I'm just making sure
14:50
it's tooled to where they'll actually give me a fair hearing and hear me out
14:54
on it. So it's that kind of it. It's just really hard.
14:56
You got to put in a lot of effort. It's a lot easier to
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just go with the buve words, go with what feels good. Affirmation is
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always going to win out over information because it goes into our human nature.
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So it's on us. We are in complete control of our news feeds,
15:09
we're in complete control of our social media. We need to just have a
15:11
little self accountability in a mire and go, Okay, I'm responsible for what
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I antake. I want information, not affirmation. It's just harder. But
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it's like exercising, it's like watching what you eat. It's like, you
15:20
know, controlling your behavior. It's just hard. It's against your human nature.
15:24
But if you want to, you know, improve your life, it's
15:26
something you just got to put some effort on. We want to talk about
15:28
maybe some media literacy tips. When we come back, we're going to take
15:31
a break. Andrew Donaldson is joining me. We're going to talk about maybe
15:33
how you can seek out sources closer to stories, what you should look for,
15:37
and maybe some things that might catch you up or might actually let you
15:41
know that you're reading something that's more biased than what you think. So pretending
15:45
that anybody is unbiased also, I think is unfair. I think that what
15:48
we need to do is understand the bias, the perspective that someone's writing from
15:52
and decide if you trust that person or not. They can have their opinions
15:56
and their biases and write and be published and get paid for it, and
15:58
that's fine. What we need to do is as individuals is find the people
16:03
we trust, and find the people that we think are are legitimate peddlers of
16:06
legit information, and those are the people that we elevate and that we trust.
16:10
And not everybody has to be unbiased. You just have to be able
16:12
to trust the information that's being presented to you and don't play a fool.
16:15
Know that somebody might be presenting you information from their perspective. That's okay,
16:19
All of that's okay. We're all adults, but don't try to pretend like
16:22
something is something that is not so. What I want to do, what
16:27
I want to do. Andrew is im gonna tke a break. I'm going
16:30
to talk about a little bit when we come back and pick your brain just
16:33
a little bit about that before we move on in the program. Andrew Donaldson's
16:36
with me. He's a host of the Herd Tail Show also contributes to the
16:37
Faibueld Tribune editor at the ordinary Times. We want to take a break and
16:41
be back right after this. You're listening to five eighty Live, which is
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If there's not a part Mark store near you now, there will be soon.
19:07
Del Cooper filling in for Dave Allen on five eighty Live. Dave will
19:11
be back tomorrow. Andrew Donaldson is joining me now. He's the host of
19:12
the Hotel Show. Also joining me in probably about ten minutes or so,
19:17
is Amelia Niceley from WV Watch. We're going to be talking about these stories
19:22
that's going on with child welfare and in the state of West Virginia, the
19:27
stories that broke overnight last night. We're going to get an update on those
19:30
things. That's going to be coming up here in just a little while.
19:33
Wrapping up my conversation with Andrew Donaldson that we've been talking a little bit about
19:36
media literacy. One of the things that drove me nuts for years and there's
19:40
nothing I can do about it, But as somebody that reads a lot of
19:42
as a lay person, somebody that reads a lot of scientific articles and books
19:47
and things like that, something that's always driven me a little bit crazy is
19:49
that you have media companies that have lay people, not even like science beat
19:56
reporters, just like lay people that troll these pre publication services and things like
20:00
that, and they'll pounce on anything that comes up, chocolate cure's cancer or
20:04
whatever it might be, and there'll be a headline that they write about that,
20:07
and then a few months later there'll be more there'll be more information,
20:11
and it ends up that ended up being a false positive whatever, and then
20:15
there's a headline after all, chocolate doesn't cure cancer. And so the public
20:18
at large is like, you can't trust science. One day chocolate cut curas
20:22
cancer. The next day chocolate doesn't cure cancer. You can't trust anything.
20:26
We're really where the disconnect is is in the reporting of this, because it's
20:30
a process. When you can talk about science is is there's an initial finding,
20:34
it may have been a subsidiary finding to another study that was going on.
20:37
It's like, hey, this is interesting, it's highlighted, and it's
20:41
supposed to be worked through the process before there's a conclusion at the end,
20:44
like this actually happens or not. We tend to jump that and start drawing
20:48
conclusions before we have the end of the information. And where I'm getting with
20:51
this, Andrew, is that it's always nicer to get to the primary source.
20:53
If somebody who said, oh, chocolate cures cancer, let me read
20:56
that paper and see what it says, and then you read the summaries of
20:59
the actual study that was published here, like, well, that's not exactly
21:03
what it says. What it really says is in this study, under these
21:04
circumstances, when this happened, this is how this data was achieved. I
21:10
don't know exactly how we relate that as an analog to local media, but
21:15
that is what we have to do. We have to get as close to
21:17
the primary source as possible and shut away some of this national context that pollutes
21:23
every single story that we try to talk about. Yeah, my favorite thing
21:26
is when you have a talking head panel on TV and it's the same five
21:30
six seven people for everything experts and everything. Come on, No, Well,
21:34
look there's something to be a journalist. And I'm guilty of this too.
21:37
I'm doing two different hits today of talking heading, one up in Canada
21:40
and one for a DC panel show, so I'm guilty of it too.
21:42
There's nothing wrong with being a generalist where you're informed enough to kind of comment
21:47
on everything. But here's like science you talked about, you know, with
21:49
ordinary times, we have scientists. We have a bunch of lawyers. My
21:52
editor is actually a lawyer by trade with an English undergrade, so you know,
21:56
English language lawyer. That's a pretty good back ground for things like that.
22:00
So if it's a legal thing, try to find some lawyers. This
22:03
is one of those things where your original sources need to be how you curate
22:07
your media intake and especially your social media. You should have some lawyers in
22:11
your social media. You should have some scientists, you should have some Higher
22:15
education is something that my parents are both educators in West Virginia for their whole
22:19
careers. Do you have actual teachers, not just admin people, not just
22:23
advocates, not just people with policy ideas. Do you have in classroom teachers?
22:27
Because an in classroom teacher is very different from an administrator level. That's
22:32
part of the problem in education. Are you following some teachers different demographics you
22:36
know? Are you just yelling about the Latino demographic or do you have some
22:40
Latino people you're following and talking to and interacting to. Same thing with the
22:44
black community, same thing with whatever community you want to pick. You have
22:47
this ability in the palm of your hand with your phone to expand your horizons
22:49
and not just talk about people, not just talk at those people. You
22:53
can talk with those folks. So it's not just primary sources like good news,
22:59
which you've got to parts through because New York Times has a lot of
23:02
junk in it's also got a lot of good information in there. You got
23:03
to parse through it. It's also just amount of your feet of having a
23:07
broad swath of okay, am I just taking somebody else's word for what this
23:11
group of people over Yonder's doing and just yelling at them and day because them
23:15
and they are guilty of everything, right, Or are you actually interacting with
23:18
folks because you have the power to do that now. So primary sources in
23:22
your news media and your social media feeds and knowing people and talking to people
23:26
you know, just kind of know your lane a little bit. There.
23:29
You lose no social media points. This is something I've learned a little bit
23:30
the hard way. I'll be honest, just saying like I don't know about
23:34
this, let me read up on it for a minute. Like the twenty
23:37
four hour rull with breaking newles, sometimes it needs to be a forty eight
23:40
hour rule on breaking news. You don't know everything. Whatever those first reports
23:44
are on that big shooting or whatever, they're almost always wrong. Just wait
23:47
a minute. You don't lose points for waiting and getting it right. And
23:49
then when a big national story you have the power on your phone. Kind
23:53
of skip those national folks keep an eye on them, but you can go
23:56
to the local reporters and look at what they're doing. Just find the local
23:59
news station. Take you thirty seconds on Google, find out who the local
24:02
news station is. Same thing. If West Virginia's getting covered, do you
24:04
want to listen to no offense to them CNN or MSNBC or whoever. Do
24:08
you want to listen to them talk about West Virginia? Do you want to
24:11
talk to the people that have covered West Virginia for decades and decades and decades
24:14
in places like five eighties. That's been on the air for I don't know
24:17
how long, seventy eighty years coming up, one hundred years, one hundred
24:19
years. Good lord, I know I've seen a little tired in the green
24:22
room. But one hundred years they've covered you, don't. You know you've
24:25
got all those trophies downstairs, those more awards, the Peabody. You know
24:27
they don't hand those out for free. You know what you're doing. You
24:32
want that kind of information, and it's important to do it in a variety
24:34
of ways, and start with your social media feed. Start with what you
24:37
can control. You control your social media feed, You control the news you
24:41
watch, get those primary sources, learn about the things and go to people,
24:45
know what they're talking about, and then pair it them. Don't just
24:48
parrot that screaming hot heighed lot. I've learned a lot from following you and
24:52
the folks that are in your circle, from the various organizations that you've belonged
24:57
to and that you interact with. I think that it's moderate my opinion and
25:03
help me steal man my own thoughts from time to time. I think that's
25:07
that having some awareness of what you're consuming and looking for things that a little
25:11
closer to the primary is a good idea for everyone, regardless of what your
25:15
disposition is. Being better informed from more primary sources is always going to be
25:21
a good idea. And I don't think that that. I don't think that's
25:22
going to go out of style. Hopefully it's coming back more into style as
25:26
we talked about earlier. Andrew, I think so too. And you want
25:29
to accuse me being a homer and biased, great, I'm very biased towards
25:30
West Virginia. I'm sitting here in my West Virginia T shirt right this moment.
25:33
Look I'm biased towards West Virginia. But I'm telling you the truth because
25:37
I work in outside media and national media and things that I do. You
25:41
know, West Virginia is really blessed with good media. Just don't get stuck
25:45
in that narrative all media is bad. No, that's not true. National
25:48
media has got a lot of problems. Local media has some problems too,
25:52
but it's your job to kind of pick through and listen to it. And
25:53
we're very, very fortunate in West Virginia to have really good media if you
25:57
follow them, and you got to hold me the accountable just like you got
26:00
to hold the state government accountable. But it's an all hands on deck thing.
26:03
You need local media to hold government accountable. On accountable government, it's
26:07
not good for anybody. And then we can hold the media accountable, and
26:10
then the media and the government can kind of keep an eye on what we're
26:11
doing. You got to see these things as all interconnected, not just something
26:15
that you shout at your phone or yell at DC or yell at Charleston or
26:18
yell at that gold Dome and say you're all the problem. Got to parse
26:21
this stuff out. It makes you a better system, makes you a better
26:22
person, and that'll eventually start giving us a little bit better community in a
26:26
better state. And if we work hard enough at a better world. That's
26:29
a little pie in the sky. But it's better than just sitting around and
26:32
complaining all the time. At least we can do something about it, right.
26:33
I like that optimism, Andrew, and I appreciate your time and joining
26:37
me this morning on the airwaves and Charleston on five EDWCHS. Go ahead and
26:40
cut you loose for now, but you're welcome back on the airs anytime.
26:42
Man. I always appreciate having a conversation with you. Nowhere I'd ever be
26:45
grew up listening to you guys on five to eighty. It's really a joy
26:48
for me to get to do. I appreciate you, sir. We'll do
26:51
it anytime. Thanks a lot, Andrew. I appreciate that. That's Andrew
26:52
Donaldson joining us once again. You can find him all over the internet.
26:56
He is an editor over at The Ordinary Times, he's the host of the
27:00
Hotel Show. He contributes to the Fayettevie Tribune, and he's been on Fox,
27:03
MSNBC, the Young Turks, He's been just about everywhere. Always appreciate
27:07
Andrew coming on and Charleston and sharing some of his insights. We're gonna go
27:11
ahead and take a break. When we come back a million nicely, he's
27:12
going to join me. Man. There is a lot going on in the
27:15
in the world of child and patient welfare in this state, and we're going
27:18
to get an update on just what's happened in the last twenty four hours.
27:22
That's coming up next. You're listening to five eighty live and in the heart
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of West Virginia, there is this a profound source that goes beyond the realms
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Since Fife, Chris, I have to see whatever looked here? Listening to
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in part by Morgan and Morgan, America's largest injury law firm. Thank you
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so much for tuning in this morning, and thanks again to Andrew Donaldson from
30:26
The Hotel Show joining us in the first part of the program. I want
30:30
to bring a Millia nicely onto the program now from West Virginia. Watch we're
30:33
gonna there's so much to talk about this morning. I've never talked to a
30:36
Millia one air before, though, So good morning, a Milia. How
30:38
you doing this morning? I'm good. How are you doing? I'm doing
30:41
very well. I appreciate you taking some time out. I know that,
30:44
uh that maybe you're not officially working today, so I appreciate you taking some
30:48
time out to go on the radio with us. No problem. I am
30:51
a mom home with your kids today, so it's busier than the normal workday.
30:56
I can understand. H Yeah, I understand how that goes. I
30:59
have a six year old of my own, and sometimes that's the hardest job.
31:02
It's easily the hardest job that I have sometimes, there's no doubt about
31:04
that. Yes, I understand where you're coming from. Well, I appreciate
31:07
you coming on and you've You've been really done a great job, and I
31:12
just want to say I've been enjoying following your work is kind of a tough
31:18
thing to say because of the subject matter. That you cover, but I've
31:21
appreciated the amount of effort that you put into your work because many of the
31:26
stories that you've been covering are ones that are very unpleasant to cover. Frankly,
31:30
Oh, thank you, I appreciate that. I want to give a
31:33
little bit of an update because it seems like just in the last twenty four
31:34
hours, and there's so many things that you've been covering, so many things
31:37
that's been going on in the state. I needed to try to focus in
31:40
on a couple things. So we're going to talk a little bit about Kennedy
31:42
Miller case. That's the young girl that was found starved, and then also
31:45
the man in the boiling hot tub. These two investigations of public awareness things
31:51
like that seem to be kind of converging right now on things that are going
31:55
on. As far as I think WSAZ had some reporting last night, I
32:00
think WWK broke some things as well. Can you give us kind of a
32:06
kind of a summary outlook of worth what's happened in the last, like say,
32:09
this week, as far as this story with Kennedy Miller goes, sure,
32:13
yeah, And it has been a lot to do my best to condense
32:15
it for us So in the last week, the State Department of Human Services,
32:22
which overseas CPS, has come out and said we have done a comprehensive
32:29
review of our child welfare records, and they released the statement that at the
32:34
top of the statement says we did not have any interactions with this child,
32:37
and they said we therefore were not involved in the life of this child prior
32:42
to their passing. Later on in the statement, it does acknowledge that CPS
32:45
had seen this child two different years, twenty nineteen and twenty seventeen, but
32:51
that those were unrelated to the death. And so that was kind of one
32:57
thing that happened. And then WSAZ as you a special session this week,
33:00
so we were at the Capital of Lallmakers, and I will tell you this
33:04
was one of the biggest things that was being discussed alongside what was happening in
33:07
the special session. Amelia kind of put you on pause for just one second.
33:12
We're your cell phone is breaking up just a little bit. I'm going
33:14
to disconnect and have my producer give you call right back so we can see
33:17
if we can get a different So I apologize for that. I just want
33:20
to get a little this is important. I want to make sure we get
33:22
a clear connection, so we'll call you back in just one second. Amelia
33:25
Nicely is joining me this morning. We're going to really talk a little bit
33:28
like what happened last night when it comes to this investigation that's going on via
33:31
CPS and the Kennedy Miller case. There was a special session last night,
33:36
tempers flared. I want to get make sure that we get a little bit
33:38
of a clear connection so we can talk about that a little bit. And
33:42
there's what there is is there's a little bit of there's a little bit of
33:47
miscommunication, misunderstanding, potentially offuscation. There's something that's been going on between the
33:54
initial CPS reports which happened in two thousand and nine and twenty seventeen, that
33:59
where we've been told that that had nothing to do with Kennedy Miller's death.
34:02
How was it not related? How in what way is that is that the
34:07
case? I think these are questions that reporters are rightly asking, and we're
34:12
trying to get to the bottom of this. WSAZ had a reporter last night
34:15
that was shouted down basically, and I think we're going to get more information
34:20
about that coming up here in just a second. We have a Millia back
34:22
with us on air right now and we can pick up right from there.
34:24
I tried to Backfiel a little bit of the information, but go ahead from
34:27
where you were. We got up until last night on what was going on
34:30
with the Kennedy Miller situation. Yeah, sure, sorry about that. So
34:36
I wanted to mention this too, So kind of I would say, what
34:39
reporters are questioning is that we have audio from West Virginia State Police saying they
34:45
made a CPS referral. And so right now myself and other reporters are working
34:51
to confirm that w SAZ did confirm that off camera. I know other reporters
34:58
in myself are trying to find documentation showing that that was made. We have
35:00
some, but we're still trying to flush that out. So the Department of
35:05
Human Services is saying that that particular referral from state Police, which was made
35:08
in March of twenty twenty three last year, never got into their system where
35:13
they can't find it in their system. But they're saying they don't have that
35:15
referral. So I think kind of one of the big question marks hanging out
35:21
right now is did you have that referral in your system and you just didn't
35:24
locate it. You can't locate it, which record keeping has been an ongoing
35:29
problem for child welfare services in West Virginia. Or was there a breakdown between
35:35
state police and getting that referral? And then the other thing that happened last
35:38
night or that came out last night, was that while WSAZ was at the
35:43
capital trying to speak to both lawmakers and the Department of Human Services about this
35:47
case, Brian Abraham, who is the governor's chief of staff, began yelling
35:52
at the reporters down the hallway, telling them you're not good at your job,
35:57
and told WSAZ that they are banned from the capital. And I was
36:01
told last week that that UHS will no longer be responding to emails from me.
36:07
So it's kind of all just it's just kind of become difficult to cover.
36:14
And we, of course as journalists, are trying to be accurate and
36:16
fair, but I think the way that the information is being released in such
36:23
a convoluted and sometimes contradictory way, and the stonewalling that is only leaving us
36:30
with more questions than answers. In this case, Yeah, this really looks
36:35
to me like. I mean, there's there's three different avenues here that are
36:37
concerning We don't know for sure. If there's a mechanism of problem with communicating
36:42
between the state Police and CPS, that could be an issue. We don't
36:45
know. It could be an issue that the report was properly filed, CPS
36:50
got it, and for some reason there was an action on it, or
36:52
nothing was taking place right. That may or may not be the case.
36:54
The problem is without any additional information and without transparency, we don't know,
36:59
and then we have the lack of transparency behind it. When you have questions
37:04
and lack of transparency, I don't care what perspective you're coming from or what
37:07
you're doing, that's going to allow for backfilling of information from the general public.
37:10
If you write something completely fact based where there's a lot of questions,
37:14
and somebody reads it thinks, man, there's something bad going on there,
37:16
and then the public gets questioning about that and an official gets mad. They
37:22
shouldn't be mad at the reporter for writing the facts as they're presented. Because
37:25
there's questions that other people backfill and say, hey, this looks bad.
37:30
That's not the reporter's fault. That's the fault of lack of transparency. Yes,
37:34
and you know, I've done a lot of thinking. I mean,
37:37
I've been covering cald Welser for about four years now in West Virginia, so
37:38
I've thought of this before, but a lot over the last few weeks.
37:42
What do we have a right to know in a child's case? Right they
37:45
should be protected and so should the people who call CPS. That confidentiality is
37:51
very important for many reasons. But there are exemptions in FOYA, I'm sorry,
37:58
and freedom of information after quests, specifically when a child has died from
38:01
neglect, and that is what we are seeing in this case, and those
38:06
are the records we are seeking. Is this child has suffered in a very
38:10
tragic death, and we believe, and so does the loyal Law believe that
38:17
people have a right to know if the state did respond to CPS calls that
38:22
they were made. And it's also worth noting that this is not just a
38:28
one off new issue that has arisen in child welfare in West Virginia. This
38:32
is a very overwhelmed system. CPS only responds to about fifty percent of the
38:37
calls in the mandated timeframe, and I'm sure you talked about on your show
38:42
last year, this very sad case in Cistonville where it turns out they did
38:47
have a referral to check on these kids who were living in a shed without
38:51
a bathroom or water, and they the state couldn't produce a single travel record
38:55
showing they ever went and checked on these kids, despite neighbors calling CPS all
39:00
summer. So we have reason, you know, that has led up to
39:02
Kennedy's death for us to question the state's response to it and it's and the
39:08
alternative is nobody knowing, right, I mean, if things would have remained
39:13
status quo, then nobody would have known about some of these shortfalls, some
39:15
of these tragic deaths and what seems to be in some cases potential lack of
39:21
oversight. But again we don't know because there's such a lack of information on
39:24
trying to in trying to connect the dots here. And it seems to me
39:28
like that the powers of protection is ciding more with protecting people in organizations than
39:36
the patients and the children that are the responsibility of those people in organizations to
39:40
protect. Yeah, And I just think it's hard when the focus becomes on
39:46
attacking the media I appreciated that in Duhs's statement that they said they are going
39:52
to review their processes, you know, and try to prevent this in the
39:54
future. But as you pointed out, we don't really know what went wrong,
39:58
and I'm sure they're having those convers stations behind closed doors, but we
40:01
don't know that they are right, and so that's a part of what we're
40:05
trying to figure out, is what went wrong and how can it be fixed?
40:07
And instead a lot of the information that's coming out is just basically saying
40:15
we can't tell you anything, or even in the statement that the UHS put
40:19
out, they said the department is prepared to make any and all criminal referrals
40:22
to the appropriate authorities regarding the disclosure of information. So people who you know,
40:28
WSAZ had someone anonously send them Kennedy's prior CPS referrals and their reactions say,
40:34
well, we'll criminally prosecute people that are giving information that doesn't make us
40:37
feel like this is transparency, right. There seems to be a real question
40:44
there, and also the proud to organization that I've seen anyway, it doesn't
40:47
seem that any other personal information other than the than the existence of those reports
40:52
was was made available as part of the whistle blowing. I mean, I
40:57
guess you can side on one way or the other that, but but that's
41:00
that's contextual information. That's not necessarily a violation of any personal details of prophecy.
41:07
That's just following the bouncing ball of the case. It seems like right,
41:10
And I do think I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not sure I
41:15
would imagine that Floya exemption that allows us to have information in child death,
41:22
this would have been included in that. So, you know, my lawyer
41:25
sent them a request for records last week. We never even heard back from
41:29
them. They acknowledged the email yesterday, but we've had no real response in
41:34
that. So it's just been a very difficult situation to get information from.
41:37
And it has been difficult to get information on the child welfare system for years,
41:44
and so this is just kind of highlighted, as I said, worse
41:47
or deeper issues within DUHS. I think, where where do you see things
41:54
going from here? Or what's your coverage plans as far as the next stone
41:59
to unturned or the next thing that you need to look for in the process
42:02
of this. Sure, so I think the next thing is really trying to
42:07
firm up what state police did, you know. I would love to get
42:13
maybe a neighbor's collogue who said they called CPS about the child. That sometimes
42:17
it is difficult to do right, So I think state police is really the
42:22
place to say, how can we whether it's the a Freedom of Information Act
42:25
or an on camera or on the record interview, how can we assure that
42:30
you made this referral? As I said earlier, they did tell W.
42:34
Saz off camera that they did it, but we need to really confirm that.
42:39
And then also, I think for me a next question is the governor's
42:43
involvement in this, because Governor Jim Justice first came out and said CPS had
42:49
no knowledge of Kennedy, and then he walked back his own comments and said
42:52
I can't stand by what I said. So now is he going to walk
42:55
those back again? I would really like to hear not only his his updated
43:00
information, but also is he paying attention and is this the level of transparency
43:06
that he expects from his cabinet secretaries? And we're all going to be following
43:13
along with this as well. I know that I'm invested in these stories here
43:16
locally. You know, I have a six year old child and anything that
43:21
involves kids and things like that. I never knew that I'm fifty years old
43:24
this year, so I never knew the connection that parents talked about all these
43:29
years, that suddenly every six year old becomes your child with things like this
43:32
sort of I mean, you feel that down to your bones. And it's
43:37
just something that I am massively concerned over as far as just child welfare in
43:42
this state in general, and some of the things that seem to be coming
43:44
up recently. Before I cut you loose, I do want to make sure
43:45
that we touch on any way, the other story that we were talking about,
43:52
which is the Hopelant hospital incident that happened in January. This is also
43:55
another one where information's getting to be kind of hard to combine, seems to
44:00
be contradictory at times. Yes, so in this case we had back in
44:06
January, a non verbal elderly man died after being left too long in scolding
44:12
water in a whirlpool at a state run long term care facility like a nursing
44:15
home essentially, And what has come out since then the state did an inspection
44:21
of it and he was placed in water of one hundred and thirty four degrees
44:25
fahrenheit. Water is supposed to be at one hundred and ten and the temperatures,
44:30
according to the State Inspection, had been well above one hundred and ten
44:34
or at least above one hundred and ten for one hundred and twenty one days
44:37
before this man died. So on Tuesday, I believe, yes, the
44:42
last day of special session, lawmakers had the Secretary of Health Facilities come and
44:46
testify, and really right off the bat he said, this is under investigation
44:51
and I can't elaborate on this, and then the person who was connected to
44:54
the State Inspection said, we're not allowed to comment on this, so they
44:59
were able to kind of discuss why they did the infection, and Department of
45:04
Health Facilities is saying we fix that, we fix the water temperature issue.
45:07
This was an isolated incident. This remains a great facility, but we didn't
45:12
really get any questions answered about how did this go wrong? And you know,
45:17
how do we really can you maybe really explain to us what was done
45:23
to remedy it. None of that came out Tuesday. So you know,
45:27
Department of Health Facilities and Department of Human Services are two separate things now because
45:32
DHHR broke up, but I think lawmakers are getting frustrated because they broke up
45:38
DHHR to get more transparency, and in different agencies they're really having a hard
45:43
time getting information. Transparency is always the key, and it seems each one
45:47
of these conversations that we have that's what it always comes back to, is
45:51
is is transfer. You don't have to give away all your secrets that you
45:54
don't have to give away people's personal information or anything like that, but there's
45:57
a certain level, especially when it comes to holding our holding representatives from the
46:02
state and organizations, from agencies and services accountable, you have to have some
46:07
level of transparency to do that or else what's the point. How are you
46:10
going to know anything? Yeah, and I think it's it's hard to you
46:15
know, the Department of Health Facilities said in this meeting, well, you
46:19
all only hear the bad things, and and that's I understand their frustration with
46:23
that. But also, you know, we believe the public has a right
46:27
to know when a man is placed in scolding water and dies from subsequent burns,
46:31
because first of all, that's very tragic, right, but also there
46:36
are other West Virginians who rely on that care facility for their loved ones,
46:39
right, and so it's important for us to you know, shine a light
46:45
when patients aren't being treated properly. Yeah, the truth of the matter is,
46:47
if you handle a thousand correctly and something goes wrong with one, it's
46:52
not inviting you for the other thousand you did correctly. But the fact of
46:55
the matter is with that one, you need we need to know what actions
46:58
we can take to better ensure a can on ability from the services, and
47:00
then how the community can support other vulnerable individuals that would have to tap into
47:05
those services. Those two things can be co equally true that a thousand cases
47:09
it's handled properly and we just have this one, but also this one case,
47:13
we want to make sure it never happens again and hold the people accountable
47:15
that were at fault. Forth, those things can both be true. Yes,
47:19
And in this case specifically, as I said, you know, they
47:22
respond and said we promptly fixed the water temperature issue, et cetera. But
47:25
just a couple of weeks ago, lawmakers were supposed to tour this facility and
47:30
the tour was canceled and the Secretary of Health facilities have a scheduling conflict.
47:34
But lawmakers told me we wanted to go anyway. We didn't necessarily need him
47:37
to be there. We were fine to talk to hopemants, to the hospital
47:40
CEO, and the state said no. And so this meeting that happened Tuesday
47:45
was actually the third time lawmakers have tried to get answers. And so you
47:50
know, Delegate Matthew Wherbach, who's Republican from Cabal County, he kind of
47:54
very early in the meeting said, well, it appears we're not going to
47:58
get answers today to much event and that kind of stuff. The talent I
48:01
feel like for that meeting, I appreciate. I'm gonna have to cut you
48:06
loose here. I know you have the day off, and you've and you've
48:07
taken and I've taken so much of your time. I really appreciate the time
48:10
that you've given us. This morning. A million Nasily joining me from West
48:14
Virginia Watch. That's West Virginia Watch dot com. You can follow all of
48:15
her stories over there. Have been doing great work, not only on the
48:19
twist stories we talked about this morning, but on a lot of different things,
48:22
a much needed beat in the state of West Virginia. We really appreciate
48:24
you coming on the air with this this morning. Thank you so much.
48:27
You we'll talk to you later on. Thank you so much. That's a
48:30
million nicely joining me this morning. And these are these are hugely important stories
48:32
to the state of West Virginia and holding folks accountable, makeing sure our services
48:37
are proper. I think these are things that are worth taking a look at.
48:42
And it's media's job to help hold people accountable and to inform the public
48:45
so their votes can hold people accountable. That's how the whole thing works.
48:49
Let's go ahead and take a break. When we come back, we'll wrap
48:51
up the show and get you ready for a talk line. Dave Wilson is
48:54
in today for Hoppy of course. Dave Allen's show one five eighty Live is
48:58
presented in part by your hometown baseball team, Charles and Dirty Birds. Tonight
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at Gomourt Park is another Thursdaysday. Thursday. Yeah Tonight is another Thursday Thursday
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with twelve ounces of beer only a dollar is also bark in the parks to
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bring your dogs to the park tonight to see the Birds facing Hagerstown. Per
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tickets, merchandise schedules or more. Visit Dirtybirdsbaseball dot Com. I'm Dell Cooper.
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Will take a break and be backward after this. Brought to you by
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Sarah Wright, executive director of Fun for the Arts. You may recognize us
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from our events like the Wine and Jazz Music Festival set to take place in
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June twenty second, and Capital Cocktail Classic taking place this fall. For over
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forty years, Fun for the Arts has been helping arts organizations in the Valley
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org. I'm loving this. Yes, yes, yes, del Cooper,
51:04
you're listening to five eighty live. Phone calls to five eighty live are a
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one. Five eighty Live is brought to you in part by Huston's Pizza.
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This month, at your favorite Husson's location, get a large eighteen inch Pepperoni
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51:25
I don't think the folks at Huston's will mind me talking about their pizza bowl
51:29
that they have over there. That's my go to that I get every time
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out of pizza, out of pizza material. You can get like six items
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in it. It's like six ninety nine. It is a great deal.
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That's one of my favorite things to get at Hussins right now. I eat
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a whole one every single time, and those things are delicious. So I'll
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throw in an additional and an additional shout out to the pizza bowl over at
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Hussin's as well. Before I leave the airways today, I did want to
51:52
just remember for a moment a passing that happened yesterday. Danny Wells, a
51:57
former sports writer for the Charleston Gazette and West Reaching a delegate, passed away
52:00
at eighty four years old. Wells was known for his significant contributions to sports
52:02
journalism and his service and the state legislature. He had a profound impact on
52:06
the community through his writing and political work. Wells leaves behind the legacy of
52:09
dedication to both his profession and public service. More details on his life and
52:14
contributions can be found over where he wrote at the Charleston Gazette Mail. He
52:16
can find his full obituary over there and more information on Danny Wells. I
52:21
knew Danny a little bit. Knew a lot of his contemporaries in media around
52:24
Charleston a lot as I was growing up. Danny was on some local shows
52:29
with us here several years ago. He was on Hotline a couple of times
52:34
when we first started that show, and so condolences to Danny's family and friends.
52:39
Danny Wells, politician and sports writer, has died at the age of
52:44
eighty four. That's going to do it for us today. Thanks so much
52:45
for tuning in. Dave Wilson and talk lines coming up next. I'll be
52:49
back this afternoon on Hotline with Dave weekly at three or six. Have a
52:51
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