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From Doula to Stripper: Reclaiming the Forbidden Feminine with Caitlin Erica · Becoming Flame: Where Sensuality, Sovereignty, and Sacred Power Ignite

• Kait Tregenza: Welcome to the podcast, Caitlin Erica. Hello. This episode of Becoming Flame is brought to you by Phenxx. Phenxx is a ritual luxury house devoted to erotic feminine embodiment. We create alchemical intimacy oils and functional fragrances infused with spagyric botanicals designed to soften the nervous system, open the body, and awaken life force vitality. Our formulations are crafted as tools of self-initiation. They are not cosmetic. Hi everybody, today we have an amazing guest name Caitlin Erica. She is a Sydney based feminine embodiment teacher, birth doer, whose ⁓ work has been shaped by the most amazing ⁓ life events. ⁓ And ⁓ love talking women have taken ⁓ just these ⁓ deep, ⁓ Caitlin: Hello, thank you so much for having me. Kait Tregenza: You're so welcome. You're one of those people who, when you read their story, when you come across them, it's really hard not to be intrigued, not to be fascinated, not to be curious. ⁓ And so I was wanting to introduce you in a way that I could tell your story. And I stopped myself going, no, there's no one else that could tell your story and introduce yourself better than you. So I'm so excited for you to hear this conversation because there are so few women on the planet that go from being a birthing doula and having this body of knowledge about birth and the role of central seductive, orgasmic birth They are not decorative. They are designed to be felt. They are designed to shift. Each oil facilitates a cellular shift into relaxation and receptivity, activating and opening up an archetypal femininity that your body knows and is yearning to step into. visceral challenges and turned them around, walked into the flame, walked into the shadow. She is a woman who is not afraid of who she is. She's just not afraid of anything at all. She's really living on purpose. You know what I mean? Like despite being trained in birth work, she followed what she described as more of an inner calling. as initiation work to go into strip clubs and into initiation work at the other extreme. And then joining all of that together into the body of work that she's now working with, which is really fundamentally about owning all the aspects of you, owning who you are, coming back into self, using feminine embodiment as the compass to your life. And instead of, you know, standing on the outside of the life that you wish to be living, Could you start by telling us a little bit about yourself, please? Caitlin: Okay. I mean, it's hard for even me to be perfectly honest, but I help women to reclaim the forbidden feminine, all of the parts of themselves that we've been taught to hide, to fear, to distrust. And the way that I came into that is because after training as a birth doler, I had this unyielding intuitive call, call it the voice of intuition or spirit or delusion. I don't know. Kait Tregenza: These oils allow the body to open safely into sensual intelligence, magnetism and creative power. They open the libido and open creative sexual energy. When the body is safe, it softens. When it softens, it receives. When it receives, it creates. And when it creates, the entire world shifts. to actually go into stripping in Berlin. So she's working at these two extremes of feminine archetypal work. And she's done the doula work, she's done the stripping work, and now she's bringing that together into a more balanced, I guess, feminine embodied body of work where it's, her philosophy is all around this to go courageously and boldly into that and owning that and using that as the compass of your, as your own seductive, erotic, beautiful life. She is a woman with a felt presence. I just really got a lot out of this conversation for myself and I know that you will too. There are so many little pieces of wisdom along the way. Caitlin: ⁓ but it told me to become a stripper and that the women there had access to something that I didn't yet and that they were to be my next teachers so I've just been in this wildly unexpected school of life journey with these yeah kind of real world initiations opening me up expanding my world view my understanding my capacity and then naturally I just Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm. We believe that women who sit deeply in their bodies, in their erotic intelligence and sovereignty, become powerful creators of their lives and the environments around them. Our products are initiations into that coherence. Luxury in experience. Devotional in use. Transformational in effect. Get yours now at phenxx.com That's P-H-E-N. collision point where body shame, impurity culture, sensuality, childbirth, feminine power, all of that comes together into her signature offer and it's called strip her. And I think it's so clever, right? Not just because she's been a stripper and she's done that work and she's embodied that, you know, side of the feminine archetype, but it's like, who do we find? And I think one of the really beautiful things about sitting in a room with a woman or even digitally with a woman who has met herself in the darkest parts of her and the shadows of her is that you also get to meet yourself there. And I really hope that the frequency that we're both holding together in this Caitlin: I thought, hang on, I've got to share this with women. How do I get this out to the world? So that's what I do. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. So I want to take it chapter by chapter, if that's okay with you, because I think how you got here and, and okay. So the reason I want to take a chapter by chapter is because you're not the only person that's become a stripper before. You're not the only person that's done that work, whether it's from a let's call it sacred perspective or not, but you're one of the only people that knows how to alchemize the experience. And so I really want to get into like, Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: xx.com when we strip all the rest away. Who is there? Who is it that we get to live with at that point? How do we incorporate the truth of who I be outside or underneath everything else and start there? So I reached out to Caitlin because I was like, want to talk to the kinds of women who know how to go deep, who know how to penetrate, who know how to get rid of all the noise and who in this conversation and this transmission can help you to feel those parts of you that are yearning to be unlocked, to be given more space in the sun, to come to light, to come and be heard. Because I think one of the things that I'm getting from this conversation, and I hope that it brings up to your mind when you're listening is that you can be an extremely great birther. Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: who you are that you could pull this knowledge out and you could use this and you could teach this and you could share this. So how did you grow up? Like was this, were you in a shame-based kind of environment? Were you somebody who was very growing up free and liberal? Like where was your foundational sort of baseline set? know how to come home to her. So in Strip Her, she is helping women feel safe enough to stop performing and start inhabiting their bodies. What makes her interesting is not just that she talks about sensuality, but she refuses the split that so many women are taught to live inside. So whether it's having our sacred on one side and our sexual on the other, and an extremely great death, dire, what it, don't know, you can let go really well as I think what I'm trying to say there. But if you need to do them and you know, at the right times. And I think what I really got out of this conversation with Caitlin was what am I actually able to birth now? What is it that's Caitlin: Yeah, I say that I was riddled with shame and that's true, but not in an obvious way, not in a way that I was even aware of it. You know, it's like when you go on this inward journey, you start like waking up to these pieces. Like often it's like they were subtle, it was hidden. So I had a very, ⁓ I had like a beautiful childhood growing up. I'm the youngest of six. I grew up going to church every Sunday, like it's very loving. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: or our respectable here and our alive over there. How do we actually be the multifaceted, multidimensional, multi-complex beings of women that we are? How do we step outside of the narrative that we are one thing, the whole or Madonna, Mary or Magdalene? And I think that it's this. desiring to be birthed. How do I birth that? And who is she that I'm birthing? Or who is it that I am stepping into that I've already birthed or that already exists? Who am I parenting myself into? We get into a lot of different viewpoints and ways in which to look into that. And what I'm really taking away from this conversation is did I get too good at letting go? Caitlin: Catholic family, like this Irish Catholic lineage, ⁓ a lot of music and singing and dancing in the house. ⁓ Grew up very privileged, very blessed in all of the ways. ⁓ And then I just wanted to travel because I knew that I wanted to be a mother someday. And I felt like my parents had given me everything I could have ever asked for. And, you know, I thought of that. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: body of women now that are saying, what are you even talking about? I'm me. And whoever you get to meet in that interaction with me is what I was that day, what I was that moment, what I was in that moment I connected with you. And that's not the depth of me. That's not the completion of me. That's who I was in that second. And I'm all of that and more. And owning Did I get too good at letting it die? Too good at doing the destruction? Can I now bring in the birth? And the birth in a really intentional way, like who am I birthing? Who is the seductress? Who is the queen? How do I meet my power in that way? It's a really interesting conversation and one that I hope begs deeper questions of you. And Caitlin talks a lot about how Caitlin: that's saying give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish, he'll eat for a lifetime. And my parents really kind of built their empire from scratch themselves. And then I had everything that I could have ever asked for or wanted. And I thought, hang on, but I need to raise myself. Like how could I ever parent children if I've never had to self-parent? If I've never had to, like I was always, you know, the baby of the family. I was always... Kait Tregenza: the shame or owning the shadow, owning all of these aspects that keep us out of the truth, keep us in the performance, keep us in the She had to unpack the backpack of conformity, the war of conformity, she calls it. Where are you just idly and blindly accepting aspects of your life that don't really fit with who you are? And are you so in search of the linear A to B? Mm. Caitlin: Timmy's little sister or Allie's little sister or Phil Hudson's daughter. And, you know, I was just like, it didn't matter how old I got, I was always the baby of the family. So I just wanted to go out and explore. Kait Tregenza: broken. so let's get into it with Caitlin Erica. you are always in reference to somebody else. that you're interfering with the feminine birthing process. You know, we talk about the idea of birthing in a hospital and not being quickly, birthing quickly enough that you get pitocin. And what does that rob you of as a woman? What is the wisdom that could have been there for you if you didn't give up in that moment? So for anyone who's really going through it right now, yes, the darkest is before the dawn. Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. And so I just had this hunger to explore life and I moved to New York. didn't have a home or a job lined up or I didn't have a friend there. And I just knew that I wanted to, to build a life for myself and start from scratch. And so, you know, I got mugged at the subway and it was one of the greatest things that ever happened to me. I was just this like eyes wide open, everything is a teacher. What is life here to show me? So I really drank it all up. Kait Tregenza: be you Yes, you give up right before you're about to break through, but don't rob yourself of the wisdom that's coming as a result of that. And whether you're birthing in a birthing suite or birthing in a strip club or somewhere, anywhere that is outside of those paradigms, I think there's a lot of opportunity in this conversation to think deeply about what do I need in order to birth more smoothly? Caitlin: for years and was exploring these different areas of life and found festivals and explored psychedelics. And I thought that I was a free and open woman. And so when this call to become a stripper came through, I was like, oh, hang on. I thought I was pretty free, but it just showed me where I was still holding shame. And yeah. Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. this woman that I am becoming. And once I do, how do I parent and raise myself to be that fullest powerful version of myself? I hope you get something beautiful out of this conversation. I certainly have. And I really, really would love to hear your comments and feedback. Any questions, anyone else you would love to be listening to. Okay. Caitlin: like holding the stigma, you know, around like, hang on, these women are going to be my teachers because I hadn't considered that strippers and sex workers would be teachers. You know, I was still ⁓ churning the stories that they, you know, if they had other options, they would have chosen differently. The idea that someone would choose that with other options, just like my brain couldn't compute that. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: So it was my first lesson in humility. And yeah, I think the more like when I was on this path and doing the work even before I became a stripper, like I stopped drinking alcohol for a year because I realized that I would only self pleasure on nights that I'd been drinking. And so I think I've just always been a ⁓ inquisitive person and reflective person. And I like, I'll catch my patterns and I'll be like, ⁓ okay, well. Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm. Caitlin: Why am I only self-pleasuring on nights when I've been drinking? I wake up the next morning feeling like, ick, like I had to get myself drunk. Like I had to get myself drunk to have my way with myself. Like I, like I had to find a way to, yeah, to knock myself out or, you know, loosen my inhibitions so that I could get what I want. was like, this feels like predatory to myself. Like there are these parts of me that are not in harmony. And yeah, so I wanted to like, Kait Tregenza: Like you had a one-nine stand. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Caitlin: explore my relationship to sexuality and self-pleasure, which was pretty non-existent at the time. So it's like, yeah, of like pulling at this thread and then seeing how everything unravels. was like, ⁓ wow, like, yeah, I grew up in this like beautiful, loving household going to church and very devotional and loved that. And then started to see where that had been like implanting these stories of shame and unworthiness. ⁓ is my personal experience. Everyone has their own experience. Kait Tregenza: what led you initially into birth work? Caitlin: I remember the first time I ever went into a birthing room in the hospital and like in the birth center and I was like walking down the halls and I just, I knew that I was in a place where miracles happen and I could feel this reverence. It's interesting actually, because growing up in the church, it's like the thing that the church taught me was reverence. And I feel that sense of reverence when I'm in a birthing room. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Mm. Mm. Caitlin: And I think I've always been so passionate about people, like the inner child as an energy, as a framework, as a concept, as a relationship. You know, I always want to make my inner child proud. And like, she gets to grow up and be like, ⁓ my gosh, I become her. You know, like, and so I started, like I did my high school work experience ⁓ for midwifery. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: because I thought it's either that or I'm gonna be on stages as a musician. And I was like, I'm probably gonna follow the path of the musician. So let's like do the year 10 work experience as the midwife. Kait Tregenza: I love that midwifery and musician, are literally the same skill set, right? Caitlin: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I'll either be in devotional service or in rock and roll. Kait Tregenza: Hilarious. Okay, I love the way that you're... You actually seem to be someone who moves in extremes to find the balance. Caitlin: I guess so, you know, I want to live this life fully. Yeah, I mean, I'm Sagittarius rising. So I'm like, let me go and explore the world and like come back with like all of these like learnings and lessons. Like, I'm going to have great stories when I'm an old woman. Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. You've got great stories now. Okay, so you go and you do your work placement at 15 years old in mid-Midwifery and you're in a birthing suite and this is how you start that. Caitlin: So, no, it's okay. So rewind. I'm the youngest of six. I've got 20 nieces and nephews. I became an auntie when I was five. So I've always been growing up around pregnant women and new babies and kids, you know, like, ⁓ so I think that... Kait Tregenza: Right. That's definitely the connection piece that I was missing. was like, how did you want that so young? That's a very unique. Okay, okay. So you've been in both things with... Caitlin: Yeah, yeah so the reason I was in the birthing suite was when I was visiting ⁓ my sister who was like having her baby and I would go and I would find so I was probably like maybe between eight and twelve. And I would pull out the photo album at this birthing center and I would look through all of the photos. And you know, when the internet was a thing and I could like, YouTube was known, the first videos I wanted to watch were like, ⁓ let me see a birth, you know, cause it had been years since any of my pre my sisters had been pregnant and I'd still never actually witnessed a birth. Kait Tregenza: you Caitlin: And I used to beg my sisters even when they weren't pregnant, like, but you'll, next time you're pregnant, you'll let me in, right? You'll let me in, like I want to see. ⁓ So there was just always that in the background. And then I thought, I'm not actually going to pursue this. And then years later, it kind of came around again. I was like, ⁓ actually I do want to pursue this. Kait Tregenza: Wow. So I had a home birth and I know talking from, so I had a doula and two midwives. And if I birthed again, I might be open to free birthing, but it was my first ever birth, at least in this body, in this lifetime. And the high that everybody else was on. from my I was definitely not in that I mean I was in an altered state but I wasn't like this is euphoria this is like no I was the worker and everybody else was they like when I came out of it when I came back into consciousness it was like everybody's so high right now like everyone is just in this it's like they've the the veil is so thin think it's a very spiritual experience or it's a very ⁓ alt. ⁓ altering experience to be in the presence of someone who's birthing. So I get it. Caitlin: Hmm. ⁓ yeah. Yeah, you're in the place where miracles are happening. That's like a ⁓ human is coming Earth side. It's like it's shifting so much, shifting stage, shifting dimensions. When I first, ⁓ when I was first exploring it, it was for me, it was less about the woman though, and more about welcoming the babies. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Mm. The child? Hmm. Caitlin: And so like when I didn't follow that path, like I wanted to start, I wanted to, I felt really inspired by festivals and creative events because I could see these people were being guided by their inner child. And I think children are our biggest teachers because they haven't been conditioned. They're just so free and they're real and they roar and they ask us questions. And like you clock where you've been conditioned. Like I went to, I went to help. Kait Tregenza: Thank Caitlin: my niece when she was playing with this toy I was like what's she doing ⁓ I'll show her how to play with it I was like wow Caitlyn how narrow-minded you are like that's the whole point of play there are no rules like she's making it up she's great she's fine and I'm gonna tell her she's doing it wrong ⁓ this is the way you're supposed to play with this you know like I was like ⁓ wow I just clocked where I yeah I run the script and I've you know I conform and I do and I do things the certain way and you spend enough time with the little ones and they just show you what freedom is. So I got really inspired. Kait Tregenza: and they show you where you're accepting the limitations of the guidelines that are completely artificial. Caitlin: Yeah, mommy, why are there homeless people? Why is there war? And we find ourselves like trying to give some kind of a rational reason for these things. It's like. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm. The language that we even give to children about their bodies starts so early, so early. So connecting the dots going back through your thread and your life story, what then shifted you out of dual work and onto the next path? Caitlin: Mm. So I got tipped off by my spiritual teacher. She said, I'd only just trained. I'd only just finished my training. And she said, I don't think you're going to start taking on birthing clients straight away. There's more that life wants to teach you that no dollar school is teaching. And the path is going to be seemingly unrelated. You might get a job at a fruit shop or something thinking, what am I doing here? I've just trained as a birth doler. Please, please, please, please, please, would you trust? the path because I promise you wherever life leads you next will absolutely be connected to birth work. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: Fast forward to two or three weeks later, this voice dropped in and told me to go to a strip club. And I laughed it off at first. I was like, yeah, okay guys, sure, good one. It came back and it said, no, no, really, the women there have access to something and they're to be your next teachers. So I think having that like being tipped off by my teacher and then that message coming through, I was like, hang on. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Caitlin: how is this connected to birth work? Like what am I gonna learn from strippers about birth? And it took me a couple of weeks to build the courage but then when I went in there ⁓ and I watched these women dance and I was like, ⁓ would want to see you give birth. Like in my I didn't tell any of them, ⁓ I don't think, ⁓ but I was watching these embodied women had a connection their body that ⁓ knew how to follow. ⁓ the pulse of aliveness. And I thought they're gonna birth in a different way but on top of that they're also living a different path that's going wildly against the grain. Like you have to have a certain amount of yourself on board to birth your way and these women were living their way. And I thought these women, they're gonna be so powerful when they're giving birth. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Mm. Mm. Caitlin: And that was the piece around like being a doler. I used to think, I used to have this analogy of like the lifesaver and the swimming teacher. I was like, what do I want to be? Like, what's more important? Like to be like diving in and saving people who are drowning and in that. Kait Tregenza: Okay. Caitlin: emergency scenario, like that's so important, we need those, but we also need the swimming coaches that can help prevent that scenario. And when I started stripping, I was like, oh, oh, if I really want to change the face of birth. I got to get to women way, way earlier before they're even thinking of having their babies. If I can help women release shame, come home to their body, trust their body, trust their intuition, like choose themselves over and over again, have that like deep anchoring of who they are and have their own back and love themselves and have, the confidence to command, you know, their or assert their boundaries. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Caitlin: or ask for what they need or, you know, like just all of these different threads and filaments. There's a saying that we labor how we live. And so it's like how we do one thing is how we do anything. It's, it's, it's crazy that we could expect in this. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Caitlin: in this societal setup that we have that we could expect a woman to just suddenly go and birth in confidence in her body. When confidence in the female body is not being, is not being showcased to us. And you think about when we first had how, got our period, know, and let's like young girls like walking to the toilet, with the hiding the tampon or the pad in their hands. like, do you have a tampon? And like the story is that The female body needs to be hidden, needs to be medicated, needs to be fixed, needs to be protected. It's like, it's such a disempowered story around what it is to be a woman, which is so far from the truth actually, and how incredibly powerful we are. So I was like, actually the work begins way before they're even pregnant. And so I still consider myself like an undercover birthkeeper. I'm just disguised as an erotic dance teacher. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: But it's, yeah, it's all connected. Kait Tregenza: The biggest, so I have a really unique birth story because it started about six years before I ever met the contributing partner to the child. You know what mean? Like this person wasn't even on the radar. I wasn't thinking about that. But yeah, my journey of the matressence. Caitlin: Mm. Kait Tregenza: was actually an undoing of the misogyny and the masculinity and the patriarchy and the capitalism that I was living in. That even with all of the women's embodiment work, the work that I was doing on myself, ⁓ I had a lot to undo from the spiritual community as well about the idea of leaving the body. ⁓ Caitlin: Mm. Kait Tregenza: And I think that what becoming pregnant does and what birthing does is makes you realize the role of your body in a way that you've never had to consider it before. And it was a very pivotal point in my creation because Caitlin: Hmm. Kait Tregenza: it's very masculine to think about what you're going to do and then seek out a pathway towards doing that, you know? And it's never going to work when you're creating a baby. That's very obvious to everyone. And yet when we think about doing feminine creation, this misunderstanding of like you just sit there and you just like go with the flow. I'm so interested to know and I can share later. as well if you want on what I've discovered. But I'm so interested to know what you have learned about birth that is now applicable to your life as a woman in a daily capacity. How do you live your life differently the more you understand birth and the more you understand... Caitlin: . Somehow when I was training as a doula, I got really curious about orgasmic birth and the role of pleasure in birth. And this kind of just locked in again when I was guided to go to the strip club, because it's like the house of the erotic, of the erotic feminine. And just the more that I have, there's a, Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: There's a, ⁓ a meme that I saw once years ago that said you cannot be an empowered woman and be afraid of your pussy. And, you know, I think that if we want to be embodied, if we want to be confident in our skin, then. You know, it's kind of like you're making a ⁓ home, a home in this vessel. So what are the rooms and like what's, what have you got in the basement that you've locked away and hidden and where are the rooms that you just don't even go in? Cause it's like, are you really at home in your house if there are rooms that you don't even go? And so this, this concept of like embodiment means really living from the body and coming home to the body and like making it a home. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Hmm Hmm. Hmm. Caitlin: So that there is no part of you that you're in denial of, that you're ashamed of, that you deem unworthy. You know, it's this union, this inner union. And so a lot of that like is shadow work and understanding, well, you know, have I ever been in a fight and I've just like, I've wanted to hurt someone, you know, it's like, ⁓ it's like, I want to say the thing that'll like slice your, your Achilles heel. It's like, but I might not, or I might, or it's like. Can I get real with the fact that I have these pieces of me? Or am I gonna like bypass it and pretend that I'm, know, holier than now? It's like, no, this is part of my humanity. I get hurt and when we're hurt and when we're scared and we feel like something is threatened, then we wanna poke back, you know? It's like getting really real with everything about our humanity. ⁓ so that we can thrive so that I know what's going on in this house, in this home, in this temple. ⁓ And also, know, like this other piece of like when I, so when I said that I was first drawn to protecting children, like, and I wanted to make sure that, you know, when these new souls are coming to earth, like, like where their welcome party? Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: If they're being born, like their first stop at earth is like bright lights and screaming and like intensity. It's like, Whoa, like where have I landed? I don't know if I want to be here. Like immediately you know, nervous system. So it's like, imagine welcoming children into this soft, sweet celebratory, gentle place. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: But when I signed up and I started, you know, learning to be a doula, it's like I met my boss and my boss is the feminine. And she's like, ⁓ you want to come work for me? All right. Well, where are all the places that you've shut me out of your life? And for me, the biggest place where I'd shut her down is around sexuality. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: because I didn't want to be a woman who's immoral, you know, or who's sexual. Like we've got all the names and the slut shaming or the dangerous manipulative woman if she's seductive, you know, or if she's got any sense of like sexuality. ⁓ And so the strip club is where I reclaimed all of those pieces of me. And I came to see like, ⁓ my gosh, I kept trying to protect my purity. My purity is innate. It's who we are. It's not what we're doing. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Caitlin: And yeah, if I want to live a powerful life, if I want to be of service, then I've got to be in harmony with myself, with all of her. So I can't even remember what the question was at this point. I know I had a thread. Kait Tregenza: It was as you learn more about birth, how do you live your life differently? How do you birth your day? How do you birth your businesses? How do you birth yourself day in and day out? Caitlin: Yeah. So once I connected these dots, I realised birth is erotic and so is life. Like life is erotic. Everything. Like my teacher said, if it's of the physical world, it's sexual energy. Like sexual energy is the energy of everything that allows us to move through life. And I like that. It's like, well, we're always having sex even if you're taking out the trash. So we might as well be having good sex. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. I like this definition as well where the erotic steps outside of an intimate, physically intimate sexual experience. When you're talking about birthing, it has to be an erotic experience because it's literally life force. It is literally life being birthed. And it takes a lot of life force to birth and it... Caitlin: Right? You know, like, let's be awake and present. Kait Tregenza: literally is the entry point of that life into this. And so it has to be an innately erotic experience. It has to be a sexual experience. Caitlin: Yeah. And I mean, there's so many layers to this. And this is like, this is a really kind of expanded timeline, right? Because, you know, if I were to say that like, actually the blueprint of birth is that it is pleasurable and that it gets to be orgasmic. A lot of women are going to be like, absolutely not. Sorry, honey, you're delusional. This, we're not going to get there like this necessarily. Kait Tregenza: Okay. No. Caitlin: because there's so much in the way. But that's actually what it gets to be. necessarily, might not be in this lifetime, but. Kait Tregenza: the ⁓ other that can get you away from that is the expectation that it would be. And so ⁓ there's little bit ⁓ of hope and desire to have an orgasmic birth. might be blocking you as well from doing that. Because I've also experienced those stories of like, I wanted it so badly that the clinging and the attaching and the clamping down and I was in the control seat as opposed to like, I'm open and receptive here. Caitlin: This is our relationship to sex in general all the time. you know, not even a couple of centuries ago, even, you know, in shorter timeline, the concept that women would enjoy sex, like there were a lot of women, you know, that were sent into marriages that benefited their families or, you know, with the dowry and, you know, they weren't. Kait Tregenza: Totally. Caitlin: marriage was a business arrangement, it wasn't necessarily about love. And so the idea that these women would have pleasure in those setups was like foreign. And they would have laughed if, you know, like the sexual revolution, people saying, no, sex actually gets, but you look at the orgasm gap for women, you know, there would have been a lot of like, I've had sex plenty of times and there's nothing pleasurable about, you know, it's like, this happens over generations and generations sometimes because we've fallen so far from it. And so there is that Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: ⁓ you know, I taught a workshop on this and, and speaking to that, that like, I want this, but am I going to feel, am I doing something like the sense that we're doing something wrong if we don't get it, that we failed some, like there's so much pressure that we put on ourselves. This is massive work. And you know, if, if I'm sharing this work, you know, if there's a thousand people listening to this podcast episode and only 10 of us are going to have an orgasmic birth and I might not be one of them. Then do I not bother having the conversation? What if it gets us this much closer so that our daughters, you know, get closer? It's like, this isn't necessarily like a quick fix solution because this is thousands of years of sexual repression and suppression and feminine suppression. And so, yeah, it's a really like I'm, I'm putting up a really Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Mm. Caitlin: big topic and it's not for the faint hearted because there's, feels like there's so much at stake and there's so much pressure that we can put on ourselves and there's like, what am I doing? But, but the good news is like, if that's, if that's the birth, like if that's the birth, right. If that's actually the blueprint, then the solution is sexy. Kait Tregenza: No. Caitlin: It's like how we do one thing is how we do everything is birth. If birth is meant to be passionate and pleasurable and erotic, like physiologically, hormonally, ⁓ neurologically, birth is a sexual event. So birth and orgasm are very ⁓ linked, very intertwined. So it's like the more that we come online to our bodies, like, and you have to understand that like most women in this lifetime have experienced some kind of ⁓ sexual assault or trauma. And that's also stored, held in the womb, where it's like, ⁓ you know, it happened. It's like pretty, it's located in the same ⁓ organ group that that birth passes through. So there's like, not only is there reclaiming, like the good news, there's also doing that work to clear out, you know, what may have happened to us. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Hilda. birthing zone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Caitlin: So there's so many layers, it's such delicate, delicate territory. ⁓ But the more that we come home to our bodies and we accept that we are erotic beings, it's in the way you make your tea, it's in the way you eat your food, it's in the way you turn on that water in the morning when you have your shower, it's in the way that you like massage your moisturiser into your face. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: When people talk about like wanting to live a life that's turned on and frame it as sexual, it's like turned on just means like the lights are on, like you're awake. Turned on means you got to feel the icky stuff. Turned on means you feel the triggers. Turned on means you feel the discomfort. Turned on means you don't run away from any of it because you can't just pick and choose. You have to be willing to feel it all. But when you are Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Hmm. Caitlin: When you've made a home for yourself in your body and you develop the tools and you've done the deep work to understand the patterns and, and know how to be in relationship with whatever comes up. That's the intimacy. How can I be intimate with my anger? How can I be intimate with my fear? How can I get closer to it instead of feeling like I want to run away or push back? Like that's if we're in rejection to ourself, we're in rejection to life. So it's like this whole journey of like living an erotic life. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: is about making love to your life, getting closer, drinking it all up, inhaling it, and that just becomes the modus operandi. That's just how we do everything, and it's about being really present. Kait Tregenza: And coming back to those questions that those children were asking, those fictitious children, why do we have war? Why do we have homeless people? Those answers are held within our own bodies because there's a part of me that X, Y, Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: And the work of feminine embodiment, as I understand it and as I have been experiencing it, is that every single day we choose to show up aware that we are not these perfect. you know, one dimensional creatures that are only good and that only do good and that only, you know, whatever our version of our reality that we want to be living in. But it is this ability to sit with the parts of you that you don't think are that great actually and sit with them until you understand them. It's not about self-judgment. It's not about self-loathing. It's not about being wrong, but it's about accepting there's an aspect of me that I don't love in the same way that there's aspects of the world outside of us that we don't love. And we don't change it through protests. We don't change it through marching down the street. We change it by every single woman sitting down. Imagine four billion women. over the course of the next two years, sitting down and owning the deepest shadows, the deepest parts of us that we have no desire to open that door into and sitting with them, alchemizing that, not just loving it or knowing it or understanding, but actually seeing like, where can I change this shadow side into impact work? What is the gift here for me? Caitlin: Hmm. Kait Tregenza: my birth itself, like just connecting this thought to what you've been saying. My deepest worst aspects of how I create something came up in my birth. The parts of me that were so clear, this is what's not working in your life. This is what's not. And this is why you're an hour 20 of your labor and you are not close to birthing. And it's interesting, right? Because you have nothing else to do in a birthing consciousness than be with those demons. You have nowhere else to go because you're not doing anything until that baby comes out. And so you can delay and you can delay and you can kick that can down the road literally until your baby could go into fetal distress or you could show up and you could do that work. Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: What I didn't necessarily anticipate was how many people, non-physical people, would be in that room with me. And they weren't even necessarily ancestors. They were me. They were every aspect of me that I had ignored. Caitlin: Mmm. Kait Tregenza: that I hadn't given moment to process. Because I was very adamant that I would do my, I had a ceremony event for my maiden. Goodbye maiden, you don't exist anymore. We're gonna birth my mother. I was doing all of the things, not from like a hustle grind kind of perspective, just like I was showing up in my journey every day. Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: ⁓ this is what she needs. This is what she needs. And especially when you're a first time birther, a first time mother, the death of the mating is actually very hard because it's literally you have no idea what life is going to look like prior to. But you've never known what life is going to look like before you go to that moment. but we've made ourselves believe that we know what life is going to be like, that we know that life is linear. And that for me is one of the really big gifts that came from my birthing journey is that you can, not only can you not control this, you don't know what it's going to look like. You don't know how long it's going to take and you don't know that you go from these. Doctors speak of like, you're going to have one centimeter dilation all the way linearly through to 10 centimeters and then you're going to birth a baby. And in order for us to do that linear transition, we're going to give you a ptocin or whatever it may be to hurry that along. And it's such a theft. it's such a theft because it's not. Caitlin: Yeah. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: So many of the women that I worked with, the teachers and the guides were like, you need to the mother before you can birth the baby. But if you are holding on so tight to an identity of you that isn't actually who you are and you haven't come to an understanding of that yet, you're gonna hold on to her. You're not gonna birth the, but for me in my case, one of the women that walked into the room. She was so immensely powerful. And I even felt not terror, but intimidation of the power of her presence, her aura, her being. And she was, she was me. She was who I, she was who I am, I guess, every day aiming to embody more. Caitlin: A version of you. Kait Tregenza: And in moments embodied completely, right? And in other times, I'm the opposite of, you know, this is a multi-dimensional, multi-aspect journey of the selves. But I remember this conversation that I had with her. And she said to me, until you sit in the fullest power of who you be right now, this will be hard. This will be hard until you understand Because I understood I was made for birth. I understood that I was completely capable of birthing. I swear I had no problem getting all the hate every day. mean, no one will ever understand what it's like to be a birthing. Like somebody who doesn't know you comes up and gives you complete life advice about you and your life and about how you're putting your unborn child in danger because of this, that, and the other. And it's like, hello, I'm in a gas station. who are you? You know, I'm walking down the street. What are you even talking about? And so the amount of bombardment that women get in their general life, but as pregnant women you get, unsolicited, unfounded and very unresearched, you know, completely unnecessary conversations that you're having on a day in a day out. And so I knew I was ready to birth because it didn't even touch me. It didn't even touch me. And I never said, Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: I never lied and said, yeah, yeah, I'm going to the hospital. ⁓ yeah, yeah, it's all good. No, I said I'm made for birthing and I birth and I claimed that every day. But even still in that birthing suite, nine months, 10 months. And to be honest, I did a lot of birthing prep for years before I was even considering to do to do this. And it's all around what you're saying is like that moment that you can understand the more pleasure you can hold in your body, the more like the more sensation, the more anchoring into your body, the more equipped you are to work at, you know, doing whatever aspect of feminine work that is, know, feminine expression, right? The expectations as well that some of us put on ourself to have a certain outcome if you've been doing this work for so long, there's almost like this... It's almost like we're harder on ourselves when we've been on the journey for longer of like, why this isn't, you know, well, okay, if feminine embodiment equals pleasure and X, Y, Z, why don't you have that? Or why is it not there? whatever. And so I've seen a lot of women on this journey who, birthers or non-birthers, just in their life of like, Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: Okay, I can masturbate this way or can have pleasure or I can, you know, be with a partner or be with multiple partners. I can be by myself. can, you know, I can, I can live and however I'm living, I'm fully myself, but we keep, it's almost like sometimes I'm getting off track and losing my train of thought because there's so many things like a bombarding me in this question, but that's what the feminine does, right? You're like, wait a minute, what am I talking about right now? Caitlin: That's what the feminine does, it's non-linear babe. Kait Tregenza: And I think that's, in summary, that's the hardest part, right? When you want to come into this fully embodied part and still live in this linear, one-directional world. And coming back to the birthing stories, like when you go from one centimeter to 10 centimeters and you're not doing that fast enough, you're not doing that in the way that other people need you to be doing it. and your birthing story and your life story and your feminine presence and existence becomes so offensive to everybody around you that even the strongest person, even the one who knows this is who I am, this is what I'm, that has to chip away at you. I I know that you said you had areas of shame in your your existence and in in your childhood and going through this. So I know that you would have had these moments of like, man, this just can everyone just stop telling me what they think about my life, which is probably mirroring an aspect of what you think about this as well. So very meandering, very nonsensical way to arrive at that question. But Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: how, when it all gets too loud, how did you deal with Caitlin: You know that, that like that's the magic of the feminine right? Surrender. It's like I... Birth, death, sex, they're all, it's all the same energy. It's all orgasmic. Life is sexual energy. Death feels like an orgasm, a full body orgasm. And birth at its highest, ⁓ in its most pure form, gets to be orgasmic. It's all a letting go. letting go, letting God and it feels like because so much of the narrative in this world is like if you're letting go you're losing something. You're like you're to hold on, hold on, hold on but actually letting go is a freedom and it it requires such courage you know to just die to it. If I'm gonna be here like let me be here fully, let me die to it, let it obliterate me, let me just like give up the resistance and life has a way of building pressure, building pressure, building pressure, building pressure. So we've got no more resistance. And then when we finally erupt, it's like the gods are like, ⁓ thank God. She let go of the wheel. now we can, now we can, now she's more ⁓ able to be like ushered by the waves of life. You know, it's like, and it's this humility. like, let me be a child again. Cause when I feel like if I'm judging something, Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Caitlin: then I'm like taking the adult, you know, like I know what's best. This is wrong. I know that. And that's a very lazy attitude to have in life. It's very easy, very convenient, like, ⁓ right, wrong. There we go. Don't have to think about that anymore. But if I am in the grit of life and something feels so uncomfortable and it might feel unfair and it might be so overwhelming, but if I'm like, hang on, Kait Tregenza: Right. Caitlin: If, if, let's just go down this journey, if my higher soul has directed me to this point intentionally and my higher soul is, has a lot more access to wisdom than I, than my human does. So if my higher soul has led me to this moment, there must be something behind that. Why? And the moment you ask the question, why, possibility opens up. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Yeah. What's here for me? Yeah. Caitlin: And the world becomes bigger. It's like, well, maybe it's going to leave me here. Maybe it's going to leave me here. Maybe it's going to, you know, it's like, why for the people who have done all the work, do they still, you know, have to move through these initiations? Maybe because you're here to teach, because you're here to be the wounded healer. And I would not be able to serve the women that I'm here to serve if I didn't have to move through my own initiations. And, and would I do it over again? Would I, you know, like I would give everything yes, to serve the women that deserve to feel comfortable in their bodies. Absolutely. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Caitlin: So it's also like a reframing. Kait Tregenza: When you're here to be that exactly, and when you're here to be that person, it actually, there are no other choices. There are no other pathways. So how did you deal with the shame? How did you, I mean, you said you had a very Catholic family. Did you tell them? ⁓ this something that you delayed? Caitlin: Yeah, it's like I'm in it, I'm doing it. Good. I was living in Berlin at the time when I started dancing and I didn't tell anyone while I was doing it. I've also had these experiences like where, you know, like I wanted, I wanted to connect more with mom or this or that, or, you know, and I'm like, I have told mom that I'd done some psychedelic explorations and then I get a phone call from my big sister. Why did you tell mom that? She's now saying that she feels like her womb is falling out because it's like, basically in my desire to connect I'm like ⁓ you know I want to connect I want to tell you about my life and then I've left the country and then mum is just there with her mind and worst case scenario and what is my baby doing and is she okay and you know like she's just having to surrender meanwhile I'm off and I'm perfectly fine but mum's not seeing me every day to know that she's not seeing me every day to be like okay this goes beyond everything that Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: I have understood or been taught or conditioned to know that is safe or right or appropriate. And right next to that, I'm seeing that my daughter is okay. And so that's when all those stories and that conditioning gets to disintegrate. But if I'm not there to show my mom, hey, I'm here and I've got this and I'm present and I want you to know that like, yes, I'm going against the grain, but I'm here. ⁓ Then it was just something that made no sense to like, I would be offloading that for myself and I wouldn't be in service to her. ⁓ And so I didn't share that. But then when I knew that I would have to tell my story for other women, I came back to Australia. I told mom and it was very scary ⁓ for her. know, it's like, like I have to understand. Kait Tregenza: share. Caitlin: mum's reference point for life, her worldview is like she's grown up with a completely different, you know, if, if, if I, if I were my mum and if I were in her shoes and I walked the same path that she walked with everything, with all of her, you know, life's initiations and her, you know, her upbringing and everything, I'd, I'd come to the same conclusions as my mother. I've had a different life, very different reference point. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin: So then when I was explaining, I'm like kind of preparing mom that, yeah, I did that. I was stripping, I was taking off my clothes and dancing for men for money and women sometimes, you know. And again, her mind's going to worst case scenario. And when I was sharing that I wanted to tell my story publicly, that was very scary for her. And yeah, there was a lot of projection by people and like not just. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Caitlin: ⁓ family but people outside of family and friends and they'd look at me different and you'd see a lot of concern or a lot of projection that I'll bring shame to my family that you know and I I remember just like crying myself to sleep like praying God is there another way like please do I have to do this like I'm worried that I'll lose my family over this like just begging please is there another way please is there another way please is there another way like my family mean the world to me Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Caitlin: And I thought maybe, yeah, what if mom's health declines? Because I bring this up and even if it wouldn't be right or fair, but if that's the outcome, then my other brothers and sisters will blame me for, you know, the ill health of my, you know, like all of the stories coming up. And I remember one of my sisters asked me not to rock the boat during COVID because she was pregnant and she was like, I need mom, please. So again, like this story that mom's sanity or health is on my shoulders. and is dependent on me toeing the line and not being too much, you know? And it's this real like, do I choose me? Do I choose my truth so that I can serve women that deserve this medicine? Like, am I really choosing these women who don't even know that I exist? Might never know me, might never know my name, but I'm willing to put my family, like to lose that relationship to my family to go serve. And that was my choice and it was terrifying, but it's also the initiation that has made it so that when the financial companies say you're a dangerous business, we want nothing to do with you. And I can't accept payments. ⁓ you know, it's like, or when I get censored on Instagram, it's like, guys, you got to do better than that. Like I'm not going anywhere. I've got skin in the game. This isn't just a fun, cool thing because dancing sexy on Instagram seemed like a. cool thing to do. Like I've, I've, I've risked, I've taken serious risks to do this work. I'm going to be doing it until I take my last breath. You know? So it's like every initiation is, is just creating more. Like it's just building us up and making more, even if at the time it feels like something is being taken from us or something is about to collapse. And I'll often think of the acorn, like does the acorn realize as it begins to crack open? that it's becoming an oak tree. You know, it's like, feels like you're being obliterated. It feels like the cracking open. And when you move through this cycle enough times, you start to clock the pattern. And then you're like, cracking open, magic is just around the corner. And then you can welcome the cracking open. You can make love to it. You can get intimate with it instead of resisting and running away. So it's like in those moments, like, and the contraction, like I would say, Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Yeah. Caitlin: The woman that I am rebirthing myself into is worth this labor, is worth the contraction. This is just another contract. It's getting closer. You know, it's like, you've got to have your, eye on the vision or you've got to search for that crack of light in the darkness, you know, and just like wherever you can, use your ego. Like, wow, if I'm going through this, my guides must think I'm ready. Like, yeah. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Yeah. Yeah, especially to use that birthing analogy as everyone in the room knows you're about ready to birth when you tell everyone, can't do this anymore. Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that that transition is so important for a woman to go through. And if that was taken away from her, we would be, you know, we, we, sometimes we think that we're saving a woman from birth, but it's like an initiation that builds her into the mother that she's here to be. Because she's going to have times in her journey of motherhood where she thinks she can't do it, but she can go back to that birth and remind herself, remember when I thought that I couldn't and I did. Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Caitlin: Like it's this part of this perfect design of birth that she's meant to lose faith in herself. She's meant to lose hope. And then she gets to see herself rise. And when we try and take that off her and save her from it, we do her such a disservice and an injustice. Kait Tregenza: It's like making me wonder in your analogy earlier between do I want to be the lifesaver or the teacher? Do you want to be either? Are you either of those things or are you just simply a signpost saying, I'm a woman who's walked where you've walked or I'm walking alongside of you because we're all going the same way. Caitlin: Mm. Mmm. Be the mirror. Kait Tregenza: and shifting out of that. you know, the pressure on your shoulders to be the one that makes sure that your mother's health is okay or that, you know, every one of us, whether we're the eldest, middle, youngest daughter, you know, whether we have children or we don't have children, we all carry so much on our shoulders, no matter who we are and whatever path we're taking. And yes, there are very many versions of privilege. And I have learned that privilege has... so many different forms that it shows itself in. Sometimes the form is the color of your skin or your intellect or your, you know, family's money or just your family's love of being there. And I like that you said in the beginning, have privilege in all forms because that really said to me, yeah. there was a house that I could live in and there was food on the table. But what I have is the privilege of, have a family that loves me. Because that's a privilege that very few people actually have. And I'm wondering how you navigated risking losing that because that is the ultimate, that's the goal that most people on this planet wish for is like a Two parents and siblings that just love them, that just are there for them. And so when you said, I'm going to potentially risk this for all these women that don't know me, I'm going to risk not being able to take payments. I'm going to risk having my marketing and distribution platform shut down consistently. I'm going to risk ostracization from all these avenues and channels. How did you rise from that? How did you navigate that? How did you put one step in front of the other? Caitlin: Probably with a whole lot of messiness. A lot of ugly crying. Like a lot of just dying to it. Just cracking open and just living the experiment. Alright life just show me the next step. Just show me the next step and... Kait Tregenza: Hmm Mm-hmm. Caitlin: Yeah, I mean the risking losing my family was very scary. Like as I said, I was just like crying myself to sleep night after night, begging for a different way, but knowing that there was no other way. And spoiler alert, I have a beautiful relationship with my family, ⁓ and I didn't have to lose them, but I couldn't be sure of that at the time. and yeah, whenever there have been other things, it's Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: I go, think part of this work of the feminine as well and the embodiment of the feminine is acknowledging and honouring and connecting to the dark feminine. And the dark feminine is the part of us like the great mother that understands the cycle of life. That you don't get life without death. And that it's all useful like the dark feminine... ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Caitlin: Surgeons, surgeons, dark feminine, dark masculine work. They're willing to cut your body open and stick their hands inside of you to bring you back to life. fertilizer. Like, like the dead rotting carcass becomes fertilizer for the soil. Like every piece has its role. You know, the mother who is just like has to like, ⁓ you know, scrape the pus out of her child's wound and she knows that it's gonna hurt but she's willing to do it because she's seeing the bigger picture. She's seeing the bigger picture. Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Caitlin: medicine work she knows that just enough just the right amount of poison will actually revive you like understanding that it's not so black and white and if we know if we understand that we don't get summer without the winter that there's a time to die that there's a a beauty to die a reverence to these death portals the letting go the cracking open like Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm. Caitlin: Like there's an element of birth that is grotesque. That it like this is just part of it and it's it's bringing harmony to this like polarization of different aspects of life you know like this separation it's like no it's all part of it. You don't get like we eat we shit this is part of it you know the purging to not be afraid of the purging to not be afraid of the dying you know when we can have that Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm. Caitlin: that wider perspective than when we're in it and it feels like we're losing something. Can we breathe into it? Can we welcome it? And then you can actually even like find the eroticism in it. This is what it is to be alive. My whole body is scared. Well what is that? It's just a lot of energy. It's like my whole body is electric. And then when you can shift the story around it and just feel the sensation of it Kait Tregenza: Yeah. and move. Mm. Caitlin: it could even become orgasmic. You purge, you get angry and then you feel yourself like, fuck, thank God that I'm a woman that isn't afraid to lock myself in a room and scream at a pillow because it means that I'm alive and it means that I'm feeling it I'm not just like, copying it, copying it, suppressing it, suppressing it and becoming a walking wooden board. Like there's life moving through me. So no one gets out of life unscathed. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin: It's not about. everything in life is our relationship. Like I could have my best year ever and it might be the same year that I crash my car, I get robbed, I get this and that because it's not about what happens it's about how I'm relating to what happens. Kait Tregenza: Yeah, the choices that you make. Caitlin: The choices that I make, the perception that I have, the story that I'm, the script that I'm writing. Yeah it's it's like how how do I get to be in how do I turn this into a love story? Hang on how is this thing the very thing that I didn't realise that I prayed for? Because right now it looks like the opposite to my prayers but like if I just hold on long enough and stay curious and give some space to the mystery to play out how am I going to be like ⁓ my god Kait Tregenza: you Caitlin: you guys, but you really got me then. didn't know how you were going to pull that one out of the bag, but ⁓ my gosh, now I can see if that didn't happen, then I wouldn't have gotten here. And it's like, just, just hold on, hold on a little bit longer. Stay curious. How can I get to the point where it's like, ⁓ my gosh, I'm so grateful that that happened. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Going forward into your stripper teachers, was there a specific teacher that emerged and literally guided or was it everything that you were learning was by absorption, by osmosis, by, you know, location, vocation, all of that? Like when you say there was something there for you to learn. How did that play out in physical reality? Caitlin: Every, every person, every trigger, every scenario, every conversation was a teacher. ⁓ So I really saw my going into the strip clubs was like, like I was going behind enemy lines in the war of conditioning. I was going to the very place that society, church, family, school told me that I should not go. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: And if I end up there, means that I'm lost. Like I would never choose to be there and I certainly wouldn't ever enjoy it. And I was kind of like, wow, like what else have I not questioned in life? I kind of realised like I'd just been moving through life with this backpack with all these beliefs that I'm carrying. I'm like, hang on, wait, wait, wait. Like I never stopped to put it down and be like, well, hang on, let's take a look at what's in here and hold it up to the light and be like, is that mine or am I just carrying it? Cause someone handed it to me and I never thought to question that. So. ⁓ I got to confront all of my conditioning around shame, sensuality, freedom of expression. What makes someone respectable? Like, am I any less respectable if I'm now working this job where I'm walking around in six inch heels and, ⁓ and my lingerie and I'm taking off money, taking off clothes for money. Are the people that come in here any less respectable? ⁓ competition in the sisterhood, female. relating, ⁓ male-female relating, asking for what you want, talking about money, asking for money, scarcity, like just so much shame, projections, envy, like just it's... I'll give you some examples. Like there was one time I was dancing on the stage and this guy is looking up at me and he is in awe and he's like, wow, you are so beautiful and you're as powerful. Thank you. Like, is amazing. And the guy next to him could barely look at me and you know, he wouldn't look at me. And then like, if he looked, he'd kind of like grimace or cringe or something. And I was like, wow. You guys are having two completely different experiences whilst watching or being around the same stimulus. And so whatever experience you're having has more to do with yourself and your history than it does me. Like I'm a blank canvas here, you know, cause you can, you can learn about, can read a book and learn about the nature of projections, but until you've lived it, you don't know it. And that's the embodiment piece again. So it's like, nothing teaches you to the nature of projections, like standing up on stage. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Mmm. Caitlin: in nothing but a thong, dancing. Because people are having their own experiences and it's like, wow, you get good at understanding what belongs to me and what doesn't belong to me. Sorry, that's not mine. Thank you. I walked into a, into a dance. This guy wanted another girl. It was a big spender. One of the girls came out on the floor and was like, ⁓ you're here. Come, come. He wants another girl. And as soon as I got in the room, he whispered in her ear, I want someone else. And her face dropped and she felt so bad. I was like, it's cool. doesn't touch me. I was 30 years old. knew who I was. Had I gone into that job at the age of 18, I may have walked out with fillers and nose jobs and boob jobs and I may have made it mean something, but I was in this job eyes wide open at a certain age and stage of my development. I got to see women who were at a younger part of their development who were feeding off the energy, you know, and they're like, they were hungry. They're like, Kait Tregenza: get. Caitlin: The patrons come down in the lion's den and the women are feasting and they're riding this high of this power and I get it. It's like, wow. Like this, this part that outside of these doors were shamed for, but in here it's our power and it's celebrated. You know, and there were like the young girls who were kind of getting intoxicated off of that. I remember the first time, you know, I started going out and I realised, wow, I get drinks bought for me just cause I'm a woman. This is great. Kait Tregenza: celebrate, right? Caitlin: I'll use that, let's go out and get some free drinks. And then you just do a bit of learning and growing and maturing and you realize, okay, actually that doesn't feel so good or, you learn about integrity. And, you know, you'd meet other women in the club who were just at a bit further along on that maturation and they were in service to the men. And they, they really understood that what they were offering was medicinal and that it was a transmission. And they were activating more of a priestess archetype. Um, I got triggered by this woman when I first started and sometimes the night's quiet. You don't have anyone, you don't have any distractions, you don't have, so I'm just sitting here like, am I feeling like she just grinds my gears? And so I was like, okay, okay, let's unpack this. You got nothing else to do right now. Like why, why does she trigger you? What don't you like about it? like, I hate the way that she asks for money. Kait Tregenza: Right? Caitlin: I mean, this is kind of the job, like literally the job. It's like, save some for the rest of us. Or she's just like, she grabs it. It's like, wow, so where am I not giving myself permission to ask for what I want? And to see a woman who's actually asking for what she wants and taking care of her needs is triggering me. So just like all of these different experiences. speaking to men and. Kait Tregenza: And how is that for you now? How do you ask for something now? Is it challenging for you? Caitlin: much better. depends what it is I generally have a policy of nothing ventured nothing gained so I'll ask for what I I'll ask for what I want I mean that could be anything I have a tendency to ask with no expectation And I might put that out there. ⁓ Hmm. Kait Tregenza: What did you learn about power? And how does that play into asking? Caitlin: What do I learn about power? Power is big and there's lots of different types of power. ⁓ I learnt about the kind of power that I resonate with, that I want to connect with. And it's a quiet power and it's a reflective power. So one of the courses that I teach is on devotional lap dance, ⁓ which I very much learnt in the strip clubs from observing this and... If we go back to these younger girls, they're discovering power and they're kind of feeding off of it and they're getting high off of it ⁓ versus the women who were so connected to their power that they were in abundance and they were there to share their power. And let me honor you with my power. Because if I am like I want you to like me, it feels so good when you like me, like I'm feeding off of that, I'm like. I'm extracting. Or I might be recie- I'm asking for it and hey, you know, there's, ⁓ there's consent here. You're choosing to have this dance and you're feeding me. And maybe they're getting a feedback as well. But if I need that to feel good about myself, it's kind of, it's not sustainable. Whereas if I really truly know who the fuck I am, Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm. Caitlin: I'm a woman and I make mistakes all the time and I have more questions than I have answers and I've made peace with who I am. I'm not perfect but I like me and I make my own mistakes and I own that. Now if I bow before you to give you an offering of a dance and I don't need anything from you, I don't need you to give me anything because I feel so full in myself and still I'm choosing to bow before you. Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Caitlin: That hits differently. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Caitlin: And that also creates this reflection, you know, that the way to reflect someone else's power is to be in your own. You know, because people are like, wow, she's, she's bowing for me. She doesn't need anything from me. Who am I to receive? You know, it's like if a queen bowed before you, it's like, it activates this worthiness. It creates a space for them to step into their power if they're not already. ⁓ Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin: So yeah, there's like matriarchal power, this circulation of abundance. When you've got so much to give, it's like, ⁓ my gosh, it feels so good here. I'm flowing, let me share some of this. know, like come ride this train, there's plenty of room. It's abundant, it's not this like, ⁓ Kait Tregenza: And how do you get into that state? Is that something that you are just naturally living now or is that something that you put yourself into when you go into do these black dances? Caitlin: It's both because life isn't linear, right? We don't just get to a stage, like life is always going to move in these cycles. my, ⁓ like the benchmark is higher so that I'm more consistently in that state or I know how to get back there quicker if I slip, but there's always going to be, moments where I forget, you know, or I've, I've dropped my Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Caitlin: God, or I've been in an environment that hasn't really fueled me. And so I need to like, get back consciously get back into that space. ⁓ But it's, it just kind of runs through my veins more and more, because it's been so normalized in my system. Kait Tregenza: Get back out. And what is that practice? know, if someone's listening to this and they really want what you've got and they want to live that life and, you know, being the queen, bowing down, power meets power in this very different way to what most of us have grown up inoculated in. What is the first step to that? What is the practice for that? Caitlin: So there are three, three gateways that a woman must pass in order to fully step into her queendom. She must feel safe in her body. She must unlock permission to feel sexy in her body. And then she can activate sovereignty. So it's safe, sexy, sovereign. ⁓ And I have programs and courses that look at all three of these, but Step one is you need to anchor safety in the body. Like even if we have grown up in privilege and we've been very lucky, there's epigenetic imprinting, there's a lot that happens in this world. Most of us will still walk into the car or, you know, if it's dark, you know, you're walking with your keys between your knuckles or there's ⁓ just ⁓ a deeply embedded sense that we need to protect ourselves. And so just doing the work, the nervous system regulation, the embodiment practices to anchor safety into the body is foundational to that. Then we can start peeling back the mask, doing the big deep work to ⁓ unlock the aspects of ourselves that we've repressed. So our sensuality, our magnetism, our seduction, acknowledging that seduction isn't a dirty word. We see seduction as manipulation, but you can seduce someone into living their best life. And seduction in the hands of like, Kait Tregenza: You Caitlin: heart-connected women is leadership that this world needs. Because if I'm seducing someone, I'm going first. I'm not pointing someone saying, ⁓ go over there. I'm like, follow me. So if I want to seduce someone into living their best life, it requires that I live my best life and I walk my talk. So seduction as a spiritual practice, all of these unlearnings and reframings. ⁓ But the place to start is Kait Tregenza: Right. Mm. Caitlin: building a relationship with your body, acknowledging her, not it. What does she need? What does she say? What does she feel? Most of us, we haven't been taught how to listen, how to connect, you know, or we want something from her. Yeah, I want to be an orgasmic woman. Okay. Like that's a lot of pressure on her. You know, imagine if you had a lover who's like, I just want to make you come. It's like, you know, how often are we treating ourselves in a way that we wouldn't want someone else to treat us? So. Yeah, I would say like the piece, the takeaway piece that someone can, can take home from this and start implementing is to talk to your body, to talk to yourself, like acknowledge her as, as your, you know, it's like it's there's me, there's my body and we're a team, we're a duo. And so building that relationship, what do I need? What does she, what is she hungering for? Does she need fresh air? Does she need sunlight? Does she need? Kait Tregenza: Mm. Mm. Mm. Caitlin: to go to bed earlier? Does she need, you know, good fuel? Does she need to take a walk? Does she need movement? And it seems very simple, but it changes the way that we relate to everything. Kait Tregenza: Coming back to what you said at the beginning, which is like, I needed to parent myself. I needed to raise myself. Caitlin: Yeah, yeah, she's everything you've got in this lifetime and the reason that we're able to do anything and she shows up for us every day. She'll acclimate in different temperatures, she digests your food, she tastes your food, she sends oxygenated blood around to your organs like she has got your back and if you listen to her and you said okay for the next hour is you. Kait Tregenza: Mmm. Caitlin: Next I'm going to turn on some music and I'm just going to be with myself because there's a difference between being spending time by ourselves and spending time with ourselves. Kait Tregenza: Very true. Caitlin: you know, and you're just like, I'm gonna drop in and I'm just gonna be here and maybe I stretch, maybe I dance, maybe I sit in silence but I'm not gonna pick up my phone, I'm not gonna pick up a book, I'm just going to be. And like feel the way that she might light up, she's like, I get you all to myself. Kait Tregenza: be. Hmm. I really like the way you think about yourself as a child because that is what children need, right? Undivided presence, attention that actually is undivided, is unconditional and that love that just really just overflows and that literally changes the cells of your body. Caitlin: Mm. Kait Tregenza: that changes the identity that you hold. Because if you are a woman that is so unconditionally loved, held, seen, known, understood, why are you searching that from anybody else? That power dynamic shifts back into you. And so you, it doesn't matter what anybody else says. The guy sends you out of the room because you're not this, that or the other. You know that you are. It doesn't touch, doesn't flinch, whatever, if does back. Caitlin: Mm. Yeah. When I like, ⁓ and as you said, imagine if every woman woke up tomorrow and they knew who the fuck they were. And they had their back. I feel this. I'm sorry if that's not convenient. Body's giving me a no. Body's giving me a yes. And we just like, yeah, we, we. Kait Tregenza: Hmm. Caitlin: the head out back. It's like, ⁓ body says this, intuition says this, energy says this. We didn't second guess ourselves. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Many years ago, I was involved in the FemTech scene as an investor and I was sitting there so uncomfortable in this room of these powerhouse women talking about all of this technology that could help women connect with their bodies, track their cycles, all the things that FemTech does. And I'm sitting there going. This is total bullshit. This is total bullshit. What are we all talking about? And I felt very called to just stand up and say something in that arena of you don't need. a phone to track your cycle. In fact, the more that you're on the phone, the less you know how to track your cycle. The more that that EMF is interfering with your own emission, with your own EMF, and people don't even know that people have EMF. This is not like a technology creation. You know, the more that you're in touch with nature in the biosphere and interacting with that EMF, the more that you're going to have an understanding of unlocking the wisdom of your body, the intelligence of your body. But you need silence, you need stillness and you need presence. You don't need technology. You don't need a tracker. You don't need to be wearing something. don't. All of these things are taking you outside of the body. And now you're substituting the innate wisdom of your own biotechnology with this external technology system. And I think coming back you know into it's not just that women are made to birth because okay women are made to birth and you can have multiple avenues for how do you birth. You know you can you can there are so many ways to get that baby out of this body. But when you're holding a vision for what if birth was a sexual orgasmic experience and we work backwards from there into where are we available today and how do we move slowly and without obsession, without expectation, without pressure, just with the openness and willingness to see how that may come to be for us. Even if you are a woman who has finished birthing, will never birth, has no interest in birthing. cannot birth, whatever. These are principles of moving into a coherence with self, into a safety with self, where your body is your primary compass, where your body is your primary home. What I'm learning from everything that you've spoken about today is it's not about the big things. It's not about the Caitlin: Mm. Kait Tregenza: big goals and the big desires and that I'm going to be an orgasmic woman, but I've never had an orgasm and I've never touched myself. But by, you know, in 10 weeks time, that's what I'm going to be. And that's, that's where I'm going to get to. And I think there's a very big obsession at the moment with quantum leaping your life. I think what I'm learning from you and what I'm learning from my own journey is actually it's the daily consistent culture that you wake up in your own body. Caitlin: Hmm. Kait Tregenza: What is the culture of you? How do you come to reverence in you? How do you make this your temple? How do you make this your church? How do you make this the altar that you... If you know how to give a queen lap dance to a man, do you know how to give that to yourself? And it doesn't have to be a lap dance itself, but what's the energy? Caitlin: . Kait Tregenza: that you're giving out that you you could be giving here and that's really where everything that you've been saying and the conversation is adding up to for me is if I want to be the queen and have whatever kind of power is right for my body and my life it's how do I show up at the church of me every day how do I pray there how do I how do I serve there first Caitlin: I love you. Kait Tregenza: service in safety, then in sensuality seduction. And if I want to guide, lead, it's by example. It's been a very powerful conversation. It's been a really, it's been so, I had so many questions that I wanted to ask you and this was just, you know, they all revealed in different ways than I wanted to necessarily. ⁓ Caitlin: Yeah. Kait Tregenza: It's the difference between extracting information and being given the medicine of the presence of you in this moment, right? And I think that's what we have to shift away from, you know, coming back to the femtek and the cycles. It's like, if you believe that the only role that you have in terms of working with your body is knowing when you're going to be bleeding, you're missing it. You're missing it all. If the purpose of your tracker Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Kait Tregenza: is to know when you need to buy feminine hygiene products so that you can continue going on with your day. You've missed it. So yeah, use your tracker because you're not in it. That's not what this, the vessel of this reverence and this creation body is not about when to shove something in so you can go back to work. To be crude, to be completely crude. Caitlin: ⁓ Yeah. Yeah. When you said to be real, to be real. ⁓ I love that you brought it back to the church of self because when you were sharing that story about the femtech, I was thinking, yeah, it's just the new church. The technology is the new church. It's the, if you want success, if you want absolution, if you want whatever, you have to come here. And it's just everything that is getting us to Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Caitlin: outsource our power and our strength and our faith and our courage and our agency into something outside of our own body. You know, and like this is the thing, this is what I came to see ⁓ the church had like the role that the church played, you know, when, when I first kind of was like, okay, I've got this call to become a stripper. And I really feel like this is spirits speaking to me. And can you imagine the conversations? you hear about Caitlin? She's like gone off the rails. She's become a stripper. She thinks God sent her into the strip club. And then what if I have this experience and they're right. And I discover that I've taken it too far and I got lost and I thought I was somewhere, but I wasn't. what if I like, there are things that I can't undo and what if I do bring harm to my body or to my soul? Kait Tregenza: Mm. Caitlin: And I can't unlive that experience, you know? And I sat with the shame of that potential of like having to come back with my tail between my legs harmed, you know? And the shame, like the embarrassment of getting that wrong. And I sat with that potential and I said to myself, well, if that's how it plays out, then that will be okay. Because I'm allowed to live my life and make mistakes. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Hmm Yeah. Caitlin: And at least that way, I'll be able to have this conversation and say, yeah, I did that for a while. I learnt a lot from that experience. It was very uncomfortable. I, know, and I know now, I know now because I lived it through my body that that didn't feel good as opposed to me never going and doing the thing because church society school told me I'm not supposed to. So I don't dare follow that curiosity or that Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Yeah. Caitlin: or that desire because I've given my trust and my agency to something outside, you know, and that's what the church does. In my experience, that's what the church did to me. And that's what I see. ⁓ Like that's when people like, what's embodiment anyway? Like what are these big, you know, these words that we're throwing around, know, embodiment, embodiment, what does it mean? It means that you actually are living from this vessel. that your agency is here, that when you're making your decisions, it comes from the compass of your body and that we trust the body. it's, it's coming back to the church of the body. Kait Tregenza: And that's the reason why safety is so important as a foundational ⁓ mechanism and practice because actually you can, if you don't have safety in your body, a lot of people will start to mistake our tuition, which is really hypervigilance, scanning, knowing what everybody else is thinking, knowing the temperature of the room, knowing the level of safety or threat in the external. Right? And so when you're constantly processing everybody else's information and everybody else's movements and everybody else's mood and emotions and, you know, the shadow that you feel in them, it does two things. Firstly, it keeps you out of feeling that within yourself. So you're not processing your own shadow. You're not in connection and in contact with that. you know, that that stays suppressed. But secondly, Assume that you've been able to process your own shadow and you get to a point where you are comfortable and safe within your own body. You won't be able to hear your intuition if you're constantly scanning the room. You won't be able to hear your own voice because you've got everybody else's voice in your ears. And you're looking at safety in a very different way. That's in hypervigilance. That's in threats analysis. That's in risk assessment. Intuition is very different. It doesn't shout. It doesn't talk back to you. And it doesn't convince. Caitlin: Mm. Kait Tregenza: Going back to what you said earlier about, you know, the seduction says, it whispers, come follow me. And if you can get to know your seduction, if you can get to know what you're being seduced by, you're probably very close to, if not listening to that internal, into that compass, into that intuition, because it doesn't care if you don't listen. It just holds the truth. Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: Don't listen, you have a world of pain waiting for you, but you have to go through that. Altruition or scanning, the ego, some people call it, whatever you want to call it, it's very loud and it's very convincing. It's very manipulative. And in some ways it is the shadow to the seductress, right? Because seductress is the empowered, this is the way that we're going and the manipulator is the one that has no power, is the shadow. It's like, I have to convince you, I have to control you, I have to be over you. Trick. Caitlin: trick. Kait Tregenza: to where is that anchor point, internally or externally? And that's where the safety comes in. If you know how to trust yourself, you know how to know your own body system and be quiet in that, be still in that, be safe in that, it just naturally becomes easier, especially because nothing about the path going forward would likely be easy. If you're a person who's come here to dismantle systems or go against the grain, That's not a fun pathway. No one's doing it for the fun. Would you like to risk everything that's valuable to you, everything that you believe in for this? Yeah, I'm going to do that. Says no one. Says no one who's living outside of their body. Caitlin: Love and light. Yeah. Kait Tregenza: So you have to have the safety first to say, I'm going to follow that path. I'm going to follow that whisper. I'm going to follow that which feels true to me and risk everything that is actually really coveted to me in the process. And I mean, if you really get into the deeper stories in the Bible around saints that follow that, whether they say it's the voice of God or their own self, it becomes ⁓ semantics at the end of it. it's that knowing that there's something bigger here. Caitlin: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'm still like, I'm, I definitely, I'm glad that you mentioned that because I just want to speak to and acknowledge I'm not here to trash anybody's spiritual beliefs. And I actually have a relationship to ⁓ a lot of the Christian figures. Mother Mary gave me an orgasm through my third eye. That's a whole different story. You know, it's, been reclaiming. Kait Tregenza: Right. Caitlin: the the truth of these these like the mission the mission of Jesus ⁓ outside of the dogma of the church ⁓ and a lot of people other people have had really beautiful experiences in the church in the same way that I had a very empowered experience in the strip clubs and other people do not have empowered experiences in strip clubs so there's no it's not black and white there's no one size fits all ⁓ We've all got our own stories. But again, that and that's the, that's that's the embodiment, right? It's like, you do you. I don't need to understand it. I don't need to agree with it. I don't think it's, it's none of my business. What I want for everyone is to be true to themselves. Kait Tregenza: That's the entire point, right? Hmm. So tell us a little bit more about Strip Her and the other courses that you run and how this all comes together in the end. What is it that you are now doing with this wisdom? Caitlin: ⁓ Okay so I am, I now have a 12 month mystery school called the Temple of Venus Mystery School and that's a 12 month online group Mastermind with a six night in person retreat ⁓ and we move through all of these, ⁓ we move through the three gateways of safe, sexy, sovereign. ⁓ The retreat is coming up in June, let's strip her. And people can book into that separately as well. I have a couple of spots left. So yeah, I'm having more and more online offerings as I'm kind of wanting to reach more women. I do run some events in Sydney. ⁓ So check my website to see if there's anything coming up. I'm not sure when this is going to go to air, but. ⁓ Mystery School is the big mama that's the full deep dive where we yeah we do the deep deep work and it's it's really incredible beautiful work and the six night retreat is also very powerful ⁓ if someone can like if they just want to kind of have that in-person experience ⁓ that last time I did the stats I think I've taken about 69 women through that program and Yeah, the far majority of them will go so far as to call it life changing and it really shifts the way that they show up in life forevermore. So it's a really powerful program. And then the 12 month is like, okay, don't just let it be something you did. Because so often like we're doing medicine ceremonies, we're doing that we go to these cool things, but then we're not living it. So the integration is really, the integration is half of it, you know, to actually Kait Tregenza: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Caitlin: How does it look out in the real world to be that woman? What does it look like when it's, you know, when you're showing up for work? How does it look like when you're in traffic? What does it look like when someone is projecting onto you at a restaurant or, you know, just like really anchoring these pieces into the body so that we live and breathe it, you know, and it becomes who we are, not just some cool thing that we did. Kait Tregenza: Yeah. Amazing. Tell people how they can find you so they can get to connect with you deeper, hear about this. Caitlin: Hmm. Yeah so my website is CaitlinErica.com, my Instagram is at CaitlinErica. ⁓ it's yeah, C-A-I-T-L-I-N-E-R-I-C-A. Come find me, ask me your questions. Most of the women that come into my space are curious and also terrified and so... Kait Tregenza: Hehe. Caitlin: if that's what you're feeling, this pull and this push and this like, want that, but I couldn't possibly, then I'm your woman. That's the sweet spot. That's where all the magic is. Kait Tregenza: Thank This is the place for you. Thank you so much for today. I have so deeply enjoyed this conversation. There's so much wisdom that you've brought to this, not only to this conversation, but to the world. I know that it is not that you are walking this path lightly. You have chosen and been initiated time and time again, and it's felt, it's experienced, it's heard from you. And I just want to thank you so much for the service that you're in day in, day out. know, it is not that we take these journeys because it might be a fun, easy way to make a buck. This is life work. This is initiation work. And this is remembrance work. And so thank you so much for holding a beacon of light so that others can return and connect with. with these beacons and these light way showers. So thank you so much for everything that you do because I am sure that there is a severe lack of gratitude for the role that you play in this world. And if there isn't, then let me just add my voice to the chorus of thanks. But you are just a truly amazing and really special human. So thank you. Thank you for being on with us today and speaking your heart. Caitlin: ⁓ wow. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Kait Tregenza: That's just yours. You're welcome. You're very welcome. Okay. And you can find ⁓ Erika, we're to put all of her links in the show notes below. Caitlin: Amazing.