Latest / Main Chapter / Romance Author Shameez Patel x Main Chapter

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Romance Author Shameez Patel x Main Chapter · Main Chapter

0:42
SPEAKER_01: They already had this beautiful emotional relationship.
0:46
SPEAKER_01: It's a super fun to you.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: It's a beautiful love story.
0:49
SPEAKER_01: Also deals with neurotype representation.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: Love story representation.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: I absolutely enjoyed it.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: Like it was such a pleasure speaking to me.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: She did this interview all the way from Cape Town in LA.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's a nine-hour time difference.
1:05
SPEAKER_01: She was literally in her pajamas, but I'm so glad she agreed to meet with me because it was such a beautiful, transparent conversation.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: And I really hope you all enjoy it.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: So let's go ahead and roll by Tenth interview.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: So I know we're here to talk about next level love, but I saw that your debut novels was actually a romanticy trilogy.
1:25
SPEAKER_01: And I read on your website that you said that you write different genres because you read different genres.
1:30
SPEAKER_01: But I was wondering if you could talk more about that transition, going from romanticy to contemporary.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: The funniest thing is that I wrote the romance before the romancey, but had a much harder time querying it and finding a publisher.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: With the romanticy, I decided to approach indie publishers and it got picked up much quicker.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Actually, the transition was actually the other way around.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Which um which was quite a fun, quite quite a fun transition because the romance for me, not saying that it's any easier to write, but it's it it does take a lot less um brain work in terms of just world building.
2:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's based in in in in our world, in the contemporary world.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: So I'm not creating a magical lore, um, anything that I need to keep track of.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: It's also not a trilogy that you know spans across years and multiple characters.
2:28
SPEAKER_00: So the the romance novels did feel a lot lighter to write, even just in terms of the themes that were being covered.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: The romanticy does have, like most fantasy, you know, murder.
2:42
unknown: Of course.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's I feel like even as readers, I sometimes get whiplash going from contemporary romance to romanticy.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm reading a romanticy right now, right after just finishing next level love, and it's so interesting seeing they're both fun to read, but like your brain goes into a completely different space depending on what is did you have a genre that you preferred writing, like romanticy or romance?
3:10
SPEAKER_00: No, definitely not.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: I I would I would I love romance, I think it is it is pure escapism, and I think that it is one of the most precious things that we have as readers to really study and try and understand what motivates people.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is the part that makes romance hard to write, is creating a believable character that people will root for and understand, even if they don't relate to them.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: And with fantasy, like I mentioned, the harder parts were sort of the lore and the world building and some of the choreography for the battle scenes.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I myself have never killed a man with a sword.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: So there's a bit of strange research that goes into fantasy, and just like with reading, I think I'm a bit of a mood writer.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: So whatever tickles my fancy, uh my fancy, not fantasy, whatever tickles my fancy at the time is the one that I will sort of go for.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: I totally understand that.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like tickle my fantasy works too.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm gonna start saying that.
4:18
SPEAKER_01: So kind of going more into next level love, it is dual POV, which is my favorite thing when I'm reading romance novels, because I really want to see what's going on in each person's head.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: And one thing that really stood out to me is that the first chapter is actually in Lincoln's point of view, when I feel like most times we meet our female character first.
4:37
SPEAKER_01: So I was wondering what made you decide to make that first chapter about him.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: It was an easy choice because for anyone that's read playing flirty, they'll know that Lincoln has already featured in that book.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: He was part of the original game gang.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: And so I already knew him.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Whereas Elizabeth was as new to me as she was to him.
5:00
SPEAKER_00: What it was it did feel a bit strange for me too, because I was I was very much aware that readers get introduced to the FMC in most cases, and I really, really hoped while writing Lincoln that readers would love him as much as they love their FMCs.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: I really did love him, and it was total mishap on my part.
5:24
SPEAKER_01: I just always assumed that you know the girl comes first.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: So when I was reading it, I was thinking that I was reading about the girl first, and I was really confused, and I was like, Oh, I love her.
5:31
SPEAKER_01: And then I saw Lincoln and I had to go back, and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm reading about the guy now.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: So I thought he was totally so funny.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: I usually am more aware and trying to read the chapter headings, but I was just like, oh, first chapter, first girl.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: And so I totally was picturing our female lead first and then had to go back.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: But I think fair though.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it is a standard of the of the genre to have the female lead go first.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but I thought that he was lovable.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: I was in love with him in the first chapter, even when I thought he was a woman.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: I loved his relationship with his mom.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: And I love how you mentioned playing flirty in your last answer because it kind of leads to my next question that this is the second book in the Playing Flirty series.
6:17
SPEAKER_01: So when you were writing that first book of uh Rose and William, did you already have Lincoln and Elizabeth's story in mind, or did it develop later on?
6:28
SPEAKER_00: I knew Lincoln was going to have a story, and I knew it was going to be an online romance because of his personality and how shy he is in real life.
6:38
SPEAKER_00: But I had I had no idea who Elizabeth was at that point.
6:42
SPEAKER_00: That's interesting.
6:43
SPEAKER_01: So I actually I haven't read Playing Flirty yet.
6:46
SPEAKER_01: So is Lily mentioned at all in Playing Flirty, or is she just kind of a new concept?
6:51
SPEAKER_00: She's not mentioned by name because I knew the premise for book two.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: It it does get mentioned very briefly in Playing Flirty that Lincoln has a woman that he chats with online and plays games with.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: And that's as far that that's all they know about Lincoln's dating history is that there's a woman he chats to online.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: But I feel like that's enough of a tease because I feel like sometimes you just need one or two sentences to set up the next book.
7:18
SPEAKER_01: And of course my hope.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and of course, a very important part of Lincoln and Lily's story is that they're both engineers.
7:27
SPEAKER_01: And you're an engineer, you're a civil engineer.
7:29
SPEAKER_01: And I was wondering, did you pull from any of your own experiences when writing their story?
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, did you also have a really hard internship?
7:38
SPEAKER_01: Did you also kind of try to figure out what discipline you wanted to go to?
7:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm always fascinated when professions kind of integrate into authors' works.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Um, so there's definitely a bit of um my experiences and just my overall thoughts in engineering.
7:52
SPEAKER_00: But I always feel like I have to add the disclaimer that my last boss was a total sweetheart, and I'm forever grateful to him.
8:01
SPEAKER_00: So he's nothing like Mr.
8:02
SPEAKER_00: Anders.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: But in general, I did want to highlight what a male-dominated industry it was, and how despite that, you know, as a woman, you could still fall in love with the industry and and want to do it.
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: I kind of wanted to talk more about the misogyny that Elizabeth goes through because they comment on her outfits, her figure.
8:28
SPEAKER_01: She's always looked out for her looks rather than her brain.
8:32
SPEAKER_01: So, why did you really want to include these components in the story?
8:36
SPEAKER_01: Why was it important to you?
8:39
SPEAKER_00: I think as a woman who went through the engineering system, and while, like I said, a lot of those things did not happen to me, it is a feeling that you get, and it's definitely something I felt needed to be explored.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I've personally not read many romance novels based in an engineering office.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: I see a lot of scientists.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, I have not seen many civil engineers, maybe I just haven't stumbled across them.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: So it was an opportunity for me to write something that I knew.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, and and I could hope that it came across as authentic too.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was a new experience for me because I've read a lot of STEM novels, even though I'm not in STEM myself.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: Allie Hazelwood is one of my favorite authors of all time, and she's always writing.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: She's amazing.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: I love her.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: But I really appreciated kind of seeing this new perspective of the engineering.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: I have a lot of friends in engineering, and I feel like any woman can sometimes just resonate to just experiencing misogyny as well.
9:43
SPEAKER_01: I'm in journalism, and even I've experienced misogyny, so I can understand that it's probably even worse in engineering in a male-dominated field.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: And I think it made the book that much real.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: And talking about it being in an engineering workplace, workplace romance is one of the main tropes here.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: And we see them kind of dealing with this power imbalance.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Lincoln is kind of having guilt for liking his employee, and Elizabeth is like, do I put my career on the line?
10:12
SPEAKER_01: Wasn't it hard at all when writing these dynamics and making sure the characters kind of felt emotionally safe as they were tiptoeing along this line?
10:21
SPEAKER_00: It was, it was.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: I know that sort of boss intern dynamic, um, that that that power abuse is is very it's a very tricky line.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: It's very sensitive.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: Um and I I did my best to make sure that they were both aware of their situations and that Lincoln did his best not to overstep and abuse that power that he does have over her.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: He was very aware of it.
10:53
SPEAKER_00: And for the most part, the reviewers seem to agree that I managed to do an okay job.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: I think he was very respectful, kind of waiting for her first move, and then also him kind of using his thought process and how he really analyzed everything.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: He really wanted to be respectful to have the best intentions, which I think made the book feel enjoyable and not icky by any means.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Good.
11:17
unknown: Yes.
11:18
SPEAKER_01: And then just kind of also talking about their relationship that we know that Cardin Lincoln, he's very closed off emotionally.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: His colleagues make fun of him for it.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: We kind of see his friend group kind of call him out for it, but he seems to confide in Elizabeth pretty easily talking about his father's death and just other personal struggles he goes through.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: We as readers know that they have this comfort because they are friends virtually, even though they both don't know it yet.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: But when you were writing it, did you have any concerns about making their physical relationship feel rushed at all?
11:51
SPEAKER_01: And what was your approach to it?
11:54
SPEAKER_00: I was a little concerned, but I also know that for some people at least, there is a physical attraction that is linked to um an intellectual attraction.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: And they they definitely had an intellectual chemistry from very, very soon on.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: Once he saw how hard she worked and how easily she learned, and once she saw what a genius he was, and I think they fell for each other's brains so quickly that the bodies followed immediately after.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: And that made sense to me.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can I can see that it definitely makes sense that you fall in love with like the mind, and then it helps when you're both physically attracted to one another too.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: And they do have this virtual friendship that Elizabeth kind of figures out before Lincoln does.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: And I saw that you did an event where you talk about how gaming is kind of this overlooked place in contemporary romance.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: And to be honest, I am not a gamer at all, but I was curious why you think it's such a great place for these romance novels, especially when a lot of the interactions are virtual and not in real life.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: I think that is the beauty of it.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think while gaming isn't usually represented in romance, I do think that falling in love online is.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, online dating is a thing and social media and all of that.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: And gaming can be looked at as just another social media platform.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's just, if I may say, it's just a more fun one.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: Like it's just funner.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: You get to play games and you get to experience a different side of someone.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, chatting to them is one thing, but you get to see your fellow gamer under pressure, um, you know, losing a life online, virtually at least, after playing for hours, or you know, do they do they show up when you need them?
13:44
SPEAKER_00: Do they save you?
13:45
SPEAKER_00: Do they share their you know, their loot?
13:48
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's a whole community and it it's all virtual, and obviously it means a lot less than than real life in terms of you know saving someone or sharing resources, but it is a bit of a hint at the person that you're playing with.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: And I just I just thought it was a fun thing to explore.
14:08
SPEAKER_01: It is fun, and it's definitely kind of made me want to see more URL to IRL tropes as they call it and seeing gaming.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: The most experience I have with gaming is I did webkins a lot as a kid, but I never did like any like Minecraft or a lot of the things that my peers did.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: But I think online communities are so important.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we even met via threads, which I feel like both communities are so important, especially just in this world, finding people who love things like you do.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: So it makes sense that these gaming places could be a rising trope in romance.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: But I love I hope so.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: I hope so too.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Uh I love to talk about representation here on main chapter.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: As a black romance reader, it's sometimes really hard to find just minority romances.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: And Lincoln is, of course, a brown man.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: And I notice in all your books at least one main character is brown or a minority.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: So, what is it like writing these Asian love stories?
15:05
SPEAKER_01: What do they mean to you?
15:07
SPEAKER_00: I will say that it is that is something that is I find I do find very tricky.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, writing about brown characters comes very easily to me, but I'm I'm overly aware of how they may be perceived because I think that Asian as a label is so broad.
15:26
SPEAKER_00: Um and me as an Asian, I'm very, very mixed Asian.
15:32
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm Indian, I'm Indonesian, I'm Turkish, I'm Malaysian, you know, going up my family line.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So I I struggle.
15:41
SPEAKER_00: I've got imposter syndrome when it comes to claiming any single one culture.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: And that's why you'll find that while my characters are all brown and all minority, well not all, but a main character, because I know what it feels like to be a minority person and a person of color, but I don't necessarily feel like I can claim Indian culture a hundred percent.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: I consider myself Indian, but I don't live in this more stereotypical or cultural fashion as any one of my cultures.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: So that is something that I am constantly questioning myself on, struggling and learning from others.
16:25
SPEAKER_01: That's really interesting, you say that talking about how you have multiple identities.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Because when I was looking at Lincoln, I definitely resonated with him.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: Because similar to you, I am mixed.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: My grandmother, she's half Indian.
16:39
SPEAKER_01: And while I don't claim Indian, I grew up a lot with like Indian uh influences and our cooking and our culture, but I would never go and like claim it as like my ethnicity or what I am because it would feel definitely like an imposter syndrome and something that's not fully mine.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: But when I read characters like Lincoln who go through, I feel like these kind of universal experiences for brown people, they are super important.
17:01
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like characters like him are definitely needed.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: So I really loved him and I thank you kind of for like sharing your story of kind of creating these characters that can span across cultures and different and different experiences.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: I I do feel like we could we could do with some more mixed race representation where we, you know, just because you're a person of color doesn't mean you have to get put into a box.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like a big thing too is just because you're a person of color, your story, especially in romance novels, does not have to revolve any type of like racial trauma or racism.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like a lot of authors try to create this heavy layer that you don't necessarily want in a contemporary romance.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: You want the right that feel as whimsy and loved as other characters do in white romances as well.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I always say sometimes I just want to write about brown girls having fun.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: I will say that I do believe that the that those stories, the the racial trauma and all of those stories, and and even having culturally layered stories are very important.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: They are.
18:03
SPEAKER_00: And and I love that they exist.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: But what about you and me as those um brown-skinned readers that don't feel familiar with the cultures being mentioned, but we also want to feel that representation of just being a minority person in the world.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: So I was hoping I could sort of capture that, and I'm really glad that you told me I did.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I definitely think you did.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: And one thing that I also loved about the representation with your book was the neurodivergence representation, because I also have ADHD, and it's very hard to find characters who have it, and then also talk about it because I feel like it's just kind of like an overlooked quirk in a lot of these stories.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: But with Lincoln, we really dive into it.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: You even say that he's one of your most vulnerable characters that you've written.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: What inspired you to put this in the story?
18:55
SPEAKER_00: I knew Lincoln from the second I started writing him.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: I knew the way that his brain worked.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's also why I could start with him in the first chapter.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: It made sense for his character.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: It's it's the brain that I understand.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just I'm I'm so grateful that I got to write it.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: And I did have a handful of sensitivity readers to ensure that while ADHD is also a spectrum in terms of how everybody experiences it differently, I I hope that I was treating it with care.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And because I too have experienced reading a romance and having it mentioned, like you say, as a bit of a quirk or as a bit of a sort of a throwaway comment, like, oh, I've also got ADHD.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: And then you're like, okay, well, it doesn't look like you've got any dysfunction to go along with that.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: That's so nice for you.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: Um that's great.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I wanted to explore a high-functioning person with ADHD and anxiety who isn't necessarily dealing with it in a healthy way, but he's dealing with it because he's got no other choice but to deal with it.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally see how he was like developed and how he worked through the world.
20:18
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure a therapist would probably tell him that he needs to come up with other coping mechanisms, but he's doing coping mechanisms that work for him.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: I feel like that's very representative for people who are on the spectrum for neuro neurodivergence.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: Um so playing flirty is actually, I seem like he was the last person in that friend group to be paired off.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: So was this series kind of a duology, or do you can plan to continue the series with any other characters?
20:48
SPEAKER_00: It was a duology.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: It was duology.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: At least for now, that is the end of the playing flirty universe.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: But I I mean, I don't think I don't think the end is always the end when it comes to fiction, but but for now.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: So is there anything you could tease for your next project?
21:06
SPEAKER_01: Do you think you're gonna do more contemporary romance, or do you think you're gonna go back to romanticy?
21:12
SPEAKER_00: I'm not allowed to mention it just yet.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's but I think what I can say is that it is neither romanticy nor is it romance.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Oh, but it's sort of somewhere in the middle.
21:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: So so we're so some type of fiction is coming.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: Some type of some type of romance fiction.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: Some type of romance fiction.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm excited.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: I will keep my my eyes out on Instagram and threads.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: So as we wrap up, I have some fun questions.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: So I saw that your favorite fictional characters, I'm gonna read them out because I had to look up some of them, were Vegetta, Kovu, Loki, and Zuko.
21:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry if I said any of those names wrong, but they all seemed to have.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Have kind of a similar theme.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Do they influence your writing at all?
22:06
SPEAKER_00: They did.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: They definitely did with my romantic series.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: Um the I call them the sad boy, not a bad boy intro, but definitely inspired Lochland.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Um the love interest in the Celine trilogy.
22:25
SPEAKER_00: But in the romance novels, I think William maybe could fall a little tiny bit into that category.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: But Lincoln is pretty much the opposite of who they are.
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:37
SPEAKER_00: And it was it was fun being able to explore another personality type because I'm I'm really hoping I don't end up writing just the same MMC over and over.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
22:48
SPEAKER_01: I think you know, sometimes it's good to have a formula, but it's also good to have some diversity in the writing.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: And when I was looking them up, I was like, well, it doesn't feel like Lincoln Link falls into these categories.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: But I can see, I can see there.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: There's a pattern.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: There's a pattern.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a pattern that we're trying to ignore.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: Trying to fair enough.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: Fair enough.
23:09
SPEAKER_01: And so I love talking about like characters, Hollywood, TV when also talking about books.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: And I know fan casting can be like a pretty sensitive subject for some people, but when you're developing your characters, do you have any face cards or actors in mind?
23:26
SPEAKER_00: So I never have them in mind when I'm developing them because I try not to base my characters on real life people because you never know when they're gonna turn out to be awful.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Um at the moment, you can't seem to trust any celebrity.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: No, but it does sort of happen after they've been developed in my head, and a reader sometimes suggests somebody it clicks afterwards, and I'm like, oh, that is perfect.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: Um or in the case of Lincoln, I I'd written the book, and months later, months, if not a year, I watched Murderbot.
24:05
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I haven't seen that.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Alexander Scarskott is the main sort of murderbot, but there's a side character in there.
24:12
SPEAKER_00: His name's Rati.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: And I think his name is Ashkei.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: I forget his surname.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: He's he's an actor I've never seen before.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: I had a little pop-up of him.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: I looked at him and I just thought, you're exactly who I pictured in my head.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: That is, and it's it's not the first time that's happened.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I do sort of retrofit actors, you know, as a little fun little exercise when they when I come across them.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: That's fun.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that's more accurate to Hollywood casting anyway.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: I just had a producer on a couple of weeks ago, and she was talking about how they have to work backwards when they're adapting and making characters come to life.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: And I also feel like, I mean, as as a reader, whenever there's a book casting, it's hard.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: It's very hard.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: I would say a good 50% of the time, I'm not happy with the person they've cast, and then and then 50% of those times they end up doing a pretty good job if they're a good enough actor.
25:15
SPEAKER_00: So it is hard to sort of envision it before they take on the character's persona.
25:19
SPEAKER_01: It is because a lot of times, like the spirit is more important than the looks.
25:24
SPEAKER_01: So even if they don't have like the brown hair and brown eyes and exactly how they look, they sometimes can really embody what that character is supposed to be.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: So, of course, we've talked about different tropes.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: We've talked about workplace romance, URL to IRL.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: I like to ask authors if there's any trope that they are very anti, that they cannot see themselves writing.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: A lot of people on here say that they're not a fan of the accidental pregnancy trope.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: I've gotten that people don't like friends to lovers, but is there any trope that you don't think you could ever see yourself putting on pages?
25:57
SPEAKER_00: I like friends to lovers.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: I plan on writing that eventually.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: Most people do.
26:03
SPEAKER_00: Accidental pregnancy is not something I dislike.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I'd write it because I think it's very challenging.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Out on a lum was phenomenal.
26:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's not generally a favorite trope of mine.
26:17
SPEAKER_00: Something I know I won't write is a romance where one of the main characters have properly cheated on their partners.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Um the cheating trope, the I haven't, you know, we're engaging in in physical activities, but I've not left my husband or boyfriend or whatever.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think I'll ever write that.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Um maybe if I get a very interesting idea with enough motivation, maybe, but off the top of my head, that generally gives me the ick.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's very hard to come back from.
26:54
SPEAKER_01: One series I'm reading right now is the Magnolia Parks series, and that's filled with lots of emotional cheating, cheating, and it's more like a drama than it is a romance.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: But it's hard for the characters to come back from that.
27:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, but just a hastings.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: Some authors, some other characters, authors can do it.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: They can, they can't.
27:14
SPEAKER_00: I love a challenge.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: So, like I said earlier, you know, with fiction, it's never truly no, it's never truly an at the end.
27:22
SPEAKER_00: So maybe, but yeah, off the top of my head, that thought back.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Never say never.
27:27
SPEAKER_01: So ending as I have two more questions.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Of all the scenes that you wrote in Lincoln and Elizabeth story, did you have a favorite one that stood out to you?
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: I had I think I had three top scenes of Lincoln and Elizabeth.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: And not to spoil it for any listeners, but I would say the scene on the roof with Rose is one of my favorites.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: Um the the player two moment in the cabin.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: I mean, in in his in his dad's place, um, towards the end.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And the third one is probably when she walks into the office and he's busy getting changed.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Oh, those are all such different energies, but I love that.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: Um, the player two one, that was so emotional.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: I feel like such like a beautiful way to kind of end out some of the final chapters of the book because we didn't talk about it too much in this interview, but Lincoln's relationship with his dad definitely is like a big shaper of the story.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: And I love how his person was kind of able to help him work through some of those, I don't want to say final stages of grief because grief is never ending, but have a little bit of closure at least.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: So, my last question is I see that you're pretty active going to events.
28:48
SPEAKER_01: You went to Comic-Con, you've done panels.
28:51
SPEAKER_01: Do you have anything fun coming up that you want listeners to know or just anything in general about what's in for the rest of 2026?
29:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's awesome.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've got a few more in-person events coming up for 2026, though most of them are in South Africa.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: I would love to visit the States at some point.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's not on the cards for now.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: It's very far away.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: It's very far away.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Very far away.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, in terms of anything online, there'll be a few interviews and podcasts, which I'll be sure to share.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: I think the best way to keep in touch with me and see all my updates would be to follow me on social media or subscribe to my newsletter.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
29:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, definitely do that.
29:34
SPEAKER_01: And I'll look out for all the recaps from your South Africa Cape Town events.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: If you ever come to the States, there are plenty of things in LA that are book related.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: We have lots of book festivals and absolute FOMO every time I see it.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: I know I was out of town this past festival of the books, and it looked really, really fun.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: So maybe we'll maybe we'll both make it next year in the future.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for listening.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed that.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow Shami, subscribe to her newsletter, and keep up with all her events and updates.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: Next week, I'm interviewing Ketchi Channel in her new romantic book, Strange Familiars.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: I am reading it right now.
30:16
SPEAKER_01: And oh my gosh, it's so fun.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: It takes place in a magical veterinary school with academic rivals to lovers.
30:24
SPEAKER_01: It's Loki giving Germani vibes.
30:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's an inspiration, so we're gonna talk to her about it.
30:29
SPEAKER_01: But I hope you come back next week in my book Butterflies.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: I will see you next time.