Latest / (re)Visitation Rights / #179 Warrior (2011) w/JC Manuel | Same Father. Different Scars. | RVR02
Transcript
- Revisitation Rightspod: Welcome to the Revisitation Rights Podcast. I'm Pat. I'm Brandon. I'm JC. I'm not Justin. Justin's not here today. ⁓ so today we have a guest special guest host, JC. Actually, JC, you introduce yourself. How are you doing, everybody? I'm JC Manuel. ⁓ from Jersey, ⁓ actor, designer. Boo. Looking forward to this awesome podcast with my boys. Listen to You got a boo Jersey. Unfortunately. We're in Long Island, so there's no, you know, same thing. It does. It is it is the same thing. It's not like he's from New York, right? It it is the same thing. Yeah. All right. So today's episode we are discussing the number one hundred and seventy nine ranked warrior. It was released in two thousand eleven. Currently has an IMDB score of eight point one. It made $23 million on a $25 million budget. So it lost some money. Written by Gavin O'Connor, Anthony Tambakis. I butcher every fucking name possible. Cliff Dorman. ⁓ man. Who's ⁓ directed by Gavin O'Connor and its stars Tom Hardy, Joel Edgerson, Nick Knolty. Also with some appearances by Jennifer Morrison, Frank Gillow, and Brian Khalett. ⁓ so JC, I know you're a big MMA guy. Yeah. And this film, you know, obviously it takes sets takes place and I guess you want to call it the UFC type world. I guess you could call it that. I don't I don't think it's like a ⁓ a UFC level. It probably like ⁓ like a lower level than that. Damn. But well but yeah, UFC type type movie. ⁓ it's I thought it was a great film. The fight scenes, I love all the fight scenes, they were really good. So I got a few favorite scenes in there actually. So now, as a MMA fan, how realistic I mean, I'm I'm a boxing fan. I'm not really I can't really say I'm an MMA fan. ⁓ I don't really watch it often, but how realistic did the fight scenes in that film kind of portray itself to be, in your opinion? I in in terms of the kinda like the the scenes themselves, like the actual fights, the choreography. It's fighting. Choreography and the fights. Yes. I mean I thought they were pretty good. They were close. It kinda looks like a real fight. You know, I I I I thought it was I thought they did a really good job doing that. So I definitely love like like all the fight scenes, I thought they were really they were done pretty well. At least in my opinion, you know. ⁓ it was definitely a fun movie to watch, so the fights were were good. I actually saw a UFC match right after the I watched the movie too actually so I thought it was pretty close. Was that the one last night? ⁓ it was, yeah. Brandon, you an MMA fan? No, I I respect the art of fighting and and boxing and martial arts. I know like it's very, very hard. I think I've taken maybe one or two boxing classes and it's much more detailed than just, you know, punching your hand or throwing a kick. But personally for me, I've never been into like any type of fighting. Like boxing. Anything like i ⁓ when I have friends who like, ⁓ I'm watching like no, I'm I'm gonna go read a book. So I'm I'm gonna assume this movie didn't really that aspect of the film didn't hit for you. No, I think the only part that really hit me was the very end when the brothers were going at it and he was like, ⁓ I'm you know, I love you. That was the only part that made me emotional. You know, I kinda I I I kinda had to have my head back. I was like, ⁓ shit, what the hell is happening? You know, my body temperature started to raise, you know, I was I you know, I I think it almost fell, but I was like, nah, I kept it, I kept it. Did you do the ⁓ the woman during the notebook kind of thing? Nah, like usually if that happens, I kinda just like tilt my head back and I just kinda breathe for a second and then I readjust. You don't do the woo-sa? Nah. Nah. But sometimes it's good to, you know, just let those feelings come out. You just let it go. Yeah. Just gotta let it go. Turn bottle that shit up. Just hold all that in there. Just hold the whole bowl in there. That's pretty healthy, man. You that's pretty healthy. No, it's not. No, it's not. It is. It's very healthy. It is. No, I let all that out too, man. I get a little emotional. That movie got me emotional. It's okay to cry, Pat. Speak for yourself. I don't know. I don't think I I don't think I own tear ducks. ⁓ man. The the the the ones you gave them the mama dude, just put them in there, squeeze them real quick. So this is your first time watching, Brandon? Yeah. How many times have you seen this movie, JC? ⁓ a couple of times, but a while back and then I saw it this week. Well, a couple the other yesterday. My first time, I usually I'm I'm all in on combat sport movies, boxing, MMA, all that. I'm not a Tom Hardy fan. Wow. So wow. I know, right? It I it wow. See I give off like I would I don't think he's bad. I judge is not a fan. ⁓ so I think that's probably why I skipped it. ⁓ but I I actually really, really enjoyed it. I'm I'm a little upset I never ⁓ I never watched it before. Are you a fan of ⁓ Frank? Yeah, I mean yeah. I he's ⁓ I don't know. He's kinda h you know what it is? He does like in ⁓ what was it, The Kingdom? Mm-hmm. Awesome show, man. Awesome show. Love the kingdom. Yeah. But his movies kind of are not the same. You didn't like the purge? Yeah, I don't I don't feel he was I mean, technically he was the the you know, the lead. I think he just didn't feel like a lead character there. You know, where the the story of the purge did most of the work. ⁓ but yeah, I mean I I I like him. I think he's good at what he does. You know, I I know he's he's starting to produce his own work too, which, you know, I'm always a fan of. So But he's just ⁓ Do you like him to Tulsa King? I thought he was pretty good though. I like I like him. I like Frank Grillow. He's I think he's a I really like the show. Yeah. Tulsa King. Really? Yeah. I don't you know what it is to Like we we we've we've been over there. We've been over it many times. Like I I don't so obviously like you know I hate talking politics, but I'm literally down the middle. And Allegedly. There there is no allegedly. I'm I'm pretty straight down the middle. Like I'll go right on stuff, I'll go left on stuff, but for the most part, like I I be as objective as I possibly can. And I don't like when ⁓ you know left leaning films beat you over the head with their message, just like I don't like right leaning films beating you over the head with the message. And I think Tulsa King kind of leans with that right beating over the head a little bit. Hmm. Like they ⁓ they always have to throw something in every show. And it ge it gets kind of it defeats the purpose sometimes of it kinda takes you out of the flow of the show. And I I noticed the writer does that a lot. The guy that does all these shows. Mm-hmm. Like he, you know, I get it, is set in a you know, in a land far, far away that's ⁓ you know, very, very like right leaning. And so, you know, the the characters would you know, be like that, but I I never really like when when writers kinda use that as a crutch for characters. And like it c it comes out of nowhere a lot in that show. So it kinda it kinda turns me off to it. I didn't get any of that. Maybe maybe I gotta watch that again. ⁓ I thought tos I haven't seen that in a while. So I would have to watch that again. But I thought that was a pretty good show. ⁓ I mean it's entertaining. Yeah, it it definitely from an entertainment standpoint, definitely Entertained me. That was Yeah. I I think it fall it f definitely falls in the line of entertaining, not really high quality TV, if you want to call it that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. ⁓ so so are you are you are either you ⁓ fans of ⁓ Nick Nolti? I love blue chips. Yeah. Not the Hulk? The Hulk? So I've see I've never seen blue chips, so I I only remember Nick Nulti. How have you never seen blue chips? It was before I was born. We just watched the dozen movies that were before you were born. So I when I think when I see Nick Nulty, I think of him in the Hulk. Forty eight hours? No, the Hulk. Right? Another Hulk. He was the dad in the Hulk. And then he turns into a Hulk. That's all that's that's I think the only movie I've seen Nick Nulty in ever. Which Hulk was that? ⁓ the one with Eric Bana. Which is technically in the MCU before they switch to ⁓ The actor who's currently playing Mark Ruffalo. Huh. I don't think I saw that Hulk. I don't think I seen that. Wait, I'm sorry. I think it it might have been the first Hulk that they did in two thousand three. I saw the Hulk with Ed Norton. That one was the MCU. But he no, he was in the one before. Yeah nine. I don't think I saw that. But I I like I like McNulty. I like Nick Nulty too. Like I like everybody in the cast. Yeah. ⁓ I like ⁓ for forty eight hours, which you probably haven't seen forty eight hours, I'm gonna assume. Nah. What what is that, like nineteen sixty five? What do you do here? It's gotta be what, eighty? Eighty six, eighty seven? Wasn't born yet. Wasn't born yet. Damn, I'm showing my age. So JC saw it a couple times. Would you watch it again, Brandon? This one? The Warrior, yeah. Nah. Not at all. Really? Nah. Nah. I think that I I mean, again, ⁓ going back to it, I'm not really into like the whole, you know, Pat makes fun of me because, you they're fighting and all this. I'm like, yo, why don't you just have a conversation, go meditate. journal, go go hiking, go into the you know, like take some ayahuasca, you know, just like release all that stuff. Ayahuasca. Give me a You know, like at the end at the end of the movie, Tom Hardy, you know, he's fighting with a lot of his emotions that he hasn't dealt with. I think that's also mixed with war. Because they it was like kinda touched on, but it wasn't really touched on that much. And then obviously you have the placement of the father being alcoholic. And not really showing up for both of his sons. And then you have Wedge in there, the mom dying, and it's like they didn't I I felt like they could have explored those themes a little bit more in this film. So you wanted more trauma dump? I don't think that's trauma dump at the But I what trauma was there what what trauma were they really dealing with? Because I but they didn't last fight. The last fight was basically how they expressed their trauma. They literally fought beat the shit out of each other that five years worth of trauma. That fight was how they released their trauma. Yeah. That was it. Now Tom Hardy can go, I love you, brother. And that's it. Yeah, just next time pick up the phone and just say, Hey, you know, I have I I I feel a type of way about something that you did and this hash it out. No, that's how you hash it out. Have you never fought at your friends? No. Never fought your friends. I have I have I have ⁓ I grew up with what, I have four sisters, you know, I have like seven nieces. So, you know, fighting that's not really a way that our family does construction in terms of solving conflict. I got ⁓ sisters. It's good. I got three sisters, I got a bunch of nieces, cousins, female that they all fight? No, no. Like my I probably one sister is probably real like calm. Everybody else is a bit cunty. So Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. HR. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's no HR. There's no HR. I I I gotta say there's one part of the movie at the end that that that kinda left it a little open ended and I wish there was a little more closure there. You know, where you have Nick Milty kinda just looking at his two sons and they're walking away. I feel like he's he's outside that circle. Right. So it's like, man, is he ever gonna reconnect that? You know, s it's left up for interpretation, I'm sure, but or obviously, but ⁓ I it would have been cool to kind of see that connect. Or maybe that's supposed to be a setup for a continu a continuation, maybe. I don't know, but I mean, I think I got the ⁓ he doesn't deserve to be in yet. You know, he's gotta earn his way back in. Maybe. That's kind of where I I would take that. I guess. But at least that fur at least that f the f the brothers are together and that part is resolved. Or on its way to be re Right. Allegedly. ⁓ But it was it it was good, man. I I thought that was great. Like, you know, Tom Hardy at the end he just wouldn't give up. He was so stubborn until, you know, his brother just had to break his shoulder, I guess, you know, and that was that's how it worked. So that dropped his shoulder. What what cons in the film would you have? So like the pros, you like the UFC fighting, you like the emotionality of it, you like the kind of brother father, double brother father relationships. What cons did you think the film had? Brandon, you got cons for the film? I don't know. Aside from just being too manly. It's not it's not too much testosterone. Testosterone was leaking through the TV. No. You can be manly and still you can put a little signs on you. That's definitely a guy's movie. For sure. No, but you can still be you can still be very masculine and and and be able to learn how to effectively communicate with people. Allegedly. I think. I mean, I I think that's probably more so coming from a perception of I guess the men that I guess raised me were I mean my dad was, but whatever. ⁓ you know, it's like you don't have always have to to to to resort to being physical or violence. It's like I need you to do better, you know, just kinda like straight, straight, straight communication. ⁓ one thing that I did notice or at the very end, I wish that we would have seen ⁓ Brendan go back to the school. Like I wish we would have seen that. And I'm not even sure if he was even allowed to go back and and teach again, but I would have loved to see him, his face all just cut up. And then, you know, he's trying to teach about physics with his kid just all like hyping out, like, ⁓ yeah, yeah, I see you, you know, you hit your brother, you know, you beat him up, blah, blah, He's like, No, no, no, no, you let's stick to the lesson plan. You would have liked to seen everything go back to normal, which was what we didn't see. Yeah. Or or I guess a new normal for them. A new normal, yeah. Mm-hmm. I agree with that. I think that goes along with my closure. You know, I think I'm missing something at the end there. With Nick Nolte being outside that circle. So maybe something. Maybe my con, yeah. No quality. A little more closure at the end. Now what about for the filmmaking? Does anybody have any cons for that? 'Cause I mean I I mean I have a ton of cons. I I really like the movie. I scored it very high. But that doesn't mean, you know I don't have ⁓ complaints. Sago, I have ⁓ I have so I thought that the the script was a little weak. I thought it was very everything happened very conveniently. ⁓ I don't believe that Brendan should have won at the end. Because Tom Hardy's character what was his name? ⁓ ⁓ fuck I forget I forget Tom Morgan's character. No, his n his name was Tom. Well he well his his I his government name was Tom, but then he I think Ride Rida Ryda something with the R was the name that he switched after he with AWOL in the ⁓ the service. ⁓ yeah, he changed his last name, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It was it was Colin. Colin was the was the their original last name, maybe Conklin. Colin? Yeah, something like that. Something like that. Ca something like that. So he's running through fighters in twenty. Thirty seconds where Brendan's taking a beat in every fight. He's surprised every fight. He's grinding it out. So he's gotta just basic fighting, he's gotta be physically exhausted. His body's gotta be beat. There's no way he lasts three rounds with someone as aggressive, someone as physical, as fresh as Tommy. There's there's no doubt in my mind that he's out in thirty seconds. I agree with you on that. So I I think I think that was kind of a little too convenient. Like if they set it up a little differently, I I probably would have like I said, I scored it really high. I really I really liked it. It's just everything happened a little too conveniently. ⁓ and I think they could have gave Tommy a little more. Like I I don't feel like he was a character. I feel like he was just walking PTSD. Mm-hmm. Like I kind of would have wanted a just a tiny bit of development there instead of telling the story through back telling his story through backstories. Just a a little conversation aside from like you had one moment in the hotel when, you know, Nick Melty relapses. That's the only human humanity you got from Tommy. Which un I didn't really care for. Which was a hundred fault. It was a hundred percent Tommy's fault why he relapsed. Because that was right after that casino scene when he like totally dismissed his father and his father just kind of went off. And that drove him to to the bottle again. But that was a really emotional scene. But you're right, that was the only part where he actually was humanized a little bit, where you know you could see You can see that sentimental side of him where he kinda like held his dad, you know? Like I I you know, I understand what he did, what he went through in the war and everything, but you're not that you're not gonna be that shut off. Wait. You don't you don't think so? I don't think so. I mean I know people like that and they're not I mean, they are shut off to a point, but they're not a rec they're not like that. So you also depends. And you have to think too, the father took him off his medications. So the medications is the thing that's supposed to keep him level and calm or whatever it is, you know. And if he's off them, he's not gonna be like that. He's gonna be a little more you know, he's gonna have a reaction to it. And he never reacted to being off the meds. ⁓ that's right. I forgot about that. That's the medzier. Well sometimes Yeah, I was gonna say sometimes when you're off the meds. Yeah, in the diner when they first talked. But you're gonna have a reaction to being off of them. Yeah. That's ⁓ some kind of reaction. Never even thought of If you're consistently taking some type of medication and then you just go, AWOL, sometimes it takes a while for you to actually feel that effect. Sometimes it's gonna be weeks, sometimes it can be months. But they were training months, right? Yeah. They were training for months. So they But then I'm also So my brain is also thinking from a way of like, all right, like what was he taking? What what doses was he on? You know, when was he taking it? My brain is kinda going to that 'cause that also can really affect how that makes you ⁓ show up or how to, I guess, react when you're not taking it. So we're we're talking movie magic, right? So of course I I just think that's a I just think that's a plot hole that, you know, they just forgot. And it happen it happens all the time. Like, you know, you can't pay attention to I mean you really should, but you can't really know that people I mean you at this point in time you have to know people are gonna pick apart everything. You know. I mean that's part of the fun of it, right? That that's you know, that that's part of the fun is you can spot mistakes and you know, pick on it a little bit, you know. Especially with such a good movie. Like you notice those little things in such an enter I thought it was entertaining. ⁓ I did think it also it was a little too trauma y. So like, all right, we got the we got the dead mom. All right, we got the alcoholic dad. What else can we get? Jesus. All right, we got the kid with the cancer. All right, what el what else can we figure out? ⁓ let's throw in some PST ⁓ PTSD now. It was just like I they're going through a checklist, like, all right, what could we throw in here? What could we throw in here? Instead of letting it build naturally, they just kept throwing shit at you. That's kinda leaf, isn't it? Yeah, but I mean, really? Or are you taking it you're taking it out of context in and you're just looking at it strictly from like a movie form? Strictly from a movie format. Okay. You know, I'm not you know, you pfft I felt it was a little lazy I th I thought the the writing of it was lazy and it was the weakest part of the film. But I I It is what it is. I everything was really good. The writing of it was weak. Because it should just h it was just too convenient. You know. This the champion just happens to get hurt on, you know, running the last day, the last week. Like I get it, you know, you need to something to happen, but you could have found Tiny You could have found better ways to ⁓ to do that. You that's true. That's true, I guess. Sorry, I do have a question I wanna ask before I forget to the both of you, because you both have that background of ⁓ training and fighting in in in a capacity, and you were saying that Joel's character wouldn't have lasted. Isn't that a thing, I guess, when you're fighting that your adrenaline kind of spikes up to where you are able to take more damage than what you would on like a normal day? I'll say yes. I'll say yes too. But I I think that depends. But ⁓ go ahead, Pat, go first. So I would say that because of the level of competition that he's fighting, right? So they have the top sixteen that had to qualify. So it's not like you're fighting, you know, a random, you know, random guys. You're fighting professionals best in the you know, best in the g in the game, whatever it is. So you're Technically still an amateur, which doesn't really matter. You know, it there's amateurs, you know, there's probably like they say, this kid's better than Jordan at the playground, right? But to go through four rounds or three rounds before he gets to the finals of fighting professionals, going to war every single fight, and then fighting the guy right before fighting his brother, getting absolutely demolished. And, you know, at the very end, getting him to tap. His body has to be physically broken down at that point. There's no type of adrenaline that's gonna kick in and allow that to happen. At least in from my experience. I never fought at that kind of level and I fought boxing. You I boxed. I didn't fight MMA. But like in in boxing tournaments, sometimes you had to do, you know, two, maybe it depends how far you got, but one fight every other day, you know, the week long, 10 day long tournaments, you know, shit like that. It takes a toll. You know, after, you know, getting punched in the fucking head a couple of times, you know, it it takes a toll. And you know, especially when now your your joints are getting bent in all these kind of directions. You're the guy was like, what, five seconds from being choked out unconscious? But yet he can go in with his killer brother and whoop his ass for three rounds. I I just found that a little unbelievable. I don't I don't think there's an amount of adrenaline that's gonna really, really take you there. Even if he even if he was able to f you know last, he ain't going three rounds. If he d if he lasts more than thirty seconds, I'd give him a round. Anything more than a round, he's he's done in the next round. Personally, in my opinion. I think I I think I agree with that. ⁓ that part wasn't realistic because his brother Tommy was definitely like this he was a killer. You know, he would go in there and he's just smashing everyone, one guy after another. When you look at his brother, his brother like like like like Pat said. You know, like Pat said, you know, like he he went through wars. Everything was really ch and this was very challenging. Especially the fight prior to the one with his brother when he fought that guy. Was the Russian guy? Was it a Russian guy I think he fought? Yeah, yeah. Kurt Engel. Kurt Engel. Kurt Kurt Engel. Kurt Wrestler with the American from back in the day. Dude, that guy No, he's a he's he's he's a actual Olympic wrestler who won I think in ninety six with a with a broken neck. Broken neck. Yeah. With a broken neck. And he was in the same ring with Dwayne, the Rock Johnson. Yes, he was. Well, here he goes. You like wrestling. Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yes. ⁓ dude, I I I don't think that was realistic. ⁓ 'cause I think if that was realistic, his brother would definitely would have won that fight. He just would have went right through right through him. but I think the story was per I think the story was good. I so I definitely enjoyed the story. ⁓ But yeah, that's that's pretty much it. I think I'm in line with Pat's answer there. That makes sense. Wait, but So you said you enjoy the story. So are you on the opposite with Pat, saying that you ⁓ I enjoyed the story. I don't think the writing I don't think the writing was. What about the writing? I don't think the writing was done. Okay. Okay. I definitely like the story. ⁓ I think families have a lot of complications. A lot of us check off a lot of things off that checklist, right? We go through it. I mean my family has a long ass checklist, so there's a lot of that going on. But ⁓ so I thought it I thought it was just Let me tell no, I'm want to run this down. So we got dead mother, we got abusive father. Yes. Alcoholic father. P we got PTSD. He was abusive also, right? He was. He was. When they were younger? Yeah, they hint around it. Kid cancer. You got the their poor family about to lose their house. The guy lost his job. There's addiction. There's this, there's that. Who's the kid Who's the kid with cancer? ⁓ that's his friend that died at war. His friend. His friend that died at war, his son? No, no, no. Didn't he have ⁓ the daughter? The daughter. The daughter. He ⁓ yeah. That's why he having the money issues. That's why joined the tournament. That's right. That's right. That's right. He said he said he said, Hey. He said, Hey, I should have called you about your daughter. You know, I heard she was in the hospital. He was like, ⁓ you my dad. That's why ⁓ she's she's good now, she's beautiful, she's yeah, you know, healthy. That's why he refinanced his house. That's why he was over leveraged on his house. Yeah. The daughter angle was enough. The daughter for someone to join that tournament and the daughter angle, the family the family struggling with the daughter angle, perfect story, more than enough to to to make that same film. Throw in the father, cool. But then, you know, you got the PTSD, you got the dead money, you i then it it's just like, why just have one when we can keep throwing all these at the audience and manipulate them? So that's kind of also I kind of felt like the The ending didn't really it wasn't like a real payoff to the ending. It was kind of manipulated to me. Okay. Okay. The music. That music, you know, that that's what made me sad. The music made you sad? So let me ask you guys let me ask you guys a question. Who who would be the real protagonist of the story? Would it be Tommy or Brendan? Right? Because the the crowd does turn on Tommy at the end, right? So not the mil not the military people, they were still cheering for him, weren't they? Yes, but the crowd did the crowd itself, who were enamored with him the the entire tournament, mm-hmm now all of a sudden start turning against him. So was he more of like a quiet, stoic villain, or would he be the protagonist with Brendan kind of like being a side character? Nick Nulty was the antagonist to me. Ooh, how he was the main he was the main he was the main antagonist. And he had a good arc. He had a positive arc. ⁓ I mean, hey, I've been hitting the bottle every, you know, my entire the length of both of my kids' childhood, and now I'm trying to come back and be like, ⁓ I'm a good father. And it's like you've already the damage has already been done to both of these kids psychologically. Mm-hmm. They snuck in that little redemption arc for Nick Nulty in there. Yeah, get that shit out of here. That that's right along your emotional inner self. That fits perfectly. But I don't think it it it feels like he didn't take enough accountability. He's a We didn't hear him say once like I'm sorry or I love you. Did he say he didn't tell them? He said I'm sorry. I think he didn't say that. I think he did I think he did. He did apologize. In the beginning? Early on. Not in the beginning, but early on. I think he said it to Tommy. I think he might have. He might have because when he showed up he said, What about when he went up to Tommy's room and he was like ⁓ I think he apologized then? He apologized at the diner. Did he apologize at the diner? Maybe not at the diner. I'm not sure. Maybe not at no, I don't think he did at the diner. Not at the diner. Not at the diner. I don't remember that at the diner. But I swore he did. No, no, but maybe maybe head nod works. No, no, that doesn't count. That doesn't count when you're abusive. When you're abusive, you have to say I love you. Maybe I'm sorry means I love you. Your words are very powerful. I ⁓ come to know that. Your words are very powerful. So like that's people struggle with words. I think that's ⁓ part of the character. Absolutely. I think people just Struggle with just basic communication of what they want and what they need, just talking to humans, everyday interactions. I thought the kids How many times? I thought both his kids were both really aggressive with their response towards their father. That part I thought was like, that's a lot. That's a lot. Usually you have one that's more sympathetic to the And they both were really like And they both weren't. Yeah. Yeah. Usually there is one more that one of the siblings that is more sympathetic. And Tommy kinda seemed like he could have been the one 'cause he was training with him that so he was the closest during that moment. But they never addressed it. Yeah. He just wouldn't talk to him about it until it hit the bottle and then he folded. And that's when he hugged his dad. Yeah. After he jumped off the building. Right? You know. He had to But even before then he didn't he didn't s he he didn't he ⁓ you know, he asked like, hey, like what happened over there? And he's like, No, don't you don't have the right to to ask me about this. And his dad is like, No, I've been there. I understand that he's like, No, you don't you can't now show up as a father now and say that, hey, like I understand, I love you, I'm trying to be here. He's like, no, get that shit out of here. Go do some pushups. There you go. Go hit the heavy bag. Yeah. So it came out about fourteen years ago. Do you think it's still re is still resonant today? Resonates? In what way? For me in any way. Any w any way that you took the film. So obviously three of us took it three different ways. So I think it does. I don't I don't see why not. You mean in today's times, like today to In today's times, you think it was not for me. Not for me, 'cause I I'm gonna have a bi I kinda have a biased answer 'cause I like the film, but I guess yeah, I guess it can. I d I don't know. I don't know how to answer that. Maybe. See, I didn't view it as like a combat sport movie. I viewed it as like a family drama with the the fighting as a backdrop. Yeah, I agree with you. So that that's kinda how I viewed it. ⁓ the the fighting always took a back seat. It was kinda like a like the vehicle for the drama. Mm-hmm. That that's ⁓ so I didn't really consider it like a sports movie. I think it's I think it has sports elements to it, but I I definitely think it's more a family drama. More a family drama than than a sports movie. I agree. I think the MMA was was a vehicle to kind of just move the the message across, right? To just kind of get get the story through. I agree with you. Whereas like Rocky is opposite. Yes, Rocky is definitely a boxing movie. So Rocky has a lot of drama in it, but it's a boxing movie first and foremost. Love that movie. Every single one. One of my favorite movies. All time. I agree. Look at look at his look at his face. He's like, dude, there's too much punches in there. Don't they ever hug? I think I've seen Rocky. He hugs Adrian. He hugs Adrian. Yeah. He hugs Apollo too at the end. He does. He does. That's a great movie. Yeah. Never seen the app past the I think the first one. What? You gotta watch it now. Dude, I've sat I can't tell you I first of all, I own every single one. I have all of them. I also wasn't boring when those came out too either. So So hold on, man. I don't think I was born for the first one. What year was the first one came out? Was it like seventy six? Seventy seventy six, I believe. Seventy six. I was born in seventy seven. ⁓ close, close, close. Close. Yeah. ⁓ man, that was a good movie. All of ⁓ Even Creed. And I love what they d well, I don't want to get into that 'cause I know that's not our topic today, but we're about to start with. Michael B. Jordan. He's awesome, dude. I Michael B. Jordan. He's awesome. You don't like Michael B. Jordan? Pat doesn't like him. Pat doesn't like him. I see here's the thing, right? People I like Michael B. Jordan. I just I don't think he has the range. That people give him the credit for. Like and it r it really it really came to me when I watched Just Mercy with Jamie Foxx and him. Yeah. Jamie Foxx kinda made him look like he didn't belong. I gotta watch that. I haven't seen that. But I mean it's also Jamie Foxx. Jamie Foxx is amazing at everything he's done. Super dynamic, man. He's like Yeah. Yeah. So I I maybe I can't really blame him like that because, you know Cree three. Everyone says that Majors was acting laps around him in that movie. A hundred percent. I I mean every I mean we all know I like Jonathan Majors, so you know. ⁓ dude, he's awesome too. I like him. He's awesome. He's a good actor. ⁓ You think you think Jonathan Majors did lap ran laps around Michael B. Jordan when they were together? In Creed three, yeah. Yeah. Acting wise. Acting wise? Acting wise, yeah. I thought they were both good. I think I'll leave it there. They were both good. I can't I can't pick. I like them both. Can't pick. It's all right. I loved how they changed the story to Creed though, because they actually prolonged Rocky with Creed. Without calling it Rocky. Yeah, I and I I think I would have probably left Rocky out of two and three. I mean, they left him out of three anyway, for the most part. Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. I think after one, like Creed one, I think it should have just been his own thing. I think one was good enough to live on without the Rocky. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ I agree. Without the Rocky tag on it. But ⁓ you know, it is what it is. Yeah. So do would you okay, so you both said that you high hold very high regards for Rocky. Where would I guess in if you had to like rank your boxing MMA type movies, where would you rank the warrior in relation to Iraqi or a Creed? In what how so? Like in the fighting sense, like or just as a movie? Just movie. Movie overall, just in terms of that category, I guess in that specific genre. Warrior was definitely a good film, but I think Rocky I'm a huge Rocky fan. Like whenever that comes out, there's a there's a whole day of Rocky, I just sit down, I watch every single one over again. I must have watched them all a hundred times. ⁓ I think Rocky's definitely the the better film written better. I think it's a better story. I think the fight scenes are great. ⁓ he did a really good job putting that together. I I like Rocky better. For sure. I I'm not really sure if I can rank it just because I don't really consider it like a fighting movie. But like ⁓ there's a lot of like lower budget, I mean people call them like cheap action movies that are, you know, as far as like a fight movie are are way better than Warrior, but I think Warrior is a much better film than all of them. ⁓ It's it's fuck, man. It's it's it's kind of tough to rank it. 'Cause my thought would be maybe, all right, you have Rocky also like without question at the top, but like would you put warrior would you wedge that in between like a cu ⁓ a creed like two and three? Like does that d does that seem like a more appropriate? I I would say it's better than two I would say it's better than two and three creed. ⁓ I would say it's kinda on par with Creed One. But they're different. It's different. It's hard to it's just a different movie. It's like everything's different. The the cinematic of the film, like the just the way the film looks, looks totally different. Creed is lot b brighter. Yeah. Creed is Creed. That's also why I think it felt more drama like a more of a drama than a sports film. Where Creed, like I said, you know, Coogler's great with the vi you know, everything vision, he he has an amazing visual sense. So it it definitely felt like a sports movie with drama. Whereas ⁓ Warrior was a drama movie with sports. So like it Creed had that big bright, you know. bright set pieces, but then it knew when it needed to to tone it down and get a little gritty, like going through the streets of Philly. Whereas this one, it never really even in the fight scenes, it never really got bright and colorful. So it it never really expanded into that like sports sports film. Mm-hmm. So it's it's a little hard for me to judge it as such. But if we're if we're gonna go that way, I'd say I'd pro as a sports film, Maybe in the top one hundred. For overall sports, not just combat. ⁓ what are the hundred what you got a hundred movies in sports? Movies? just gotta be what? I mean, I can go down a list. I can't even think about what the top one hundred would be. Space jam number one. That's a good movie, by the way. And that's the end of the revisitation. I enjoyed it. I watched it with the kids. They were little. You know what? As long as you didn't say the LeBron Space Jam. No, no, no. The joint it was. Okay, okay. All right. As long as you didn't say the LeBron, I would cut it The Jordan one. Hey, shout out to Lola Bunny. ⁓ man. That's it. I shut down the podcast. Great. So you would never you would never watch this again? I I think you need to watch it with this scope of it's not a it's not a sports movie. It's a family drama. Talking about me or J C. You. I I think you would like it better if you tend to through it that ends. He's like, I I'll I'll watch it tonight, right now. Turn it up. Turn it up. We'll react to it. We shall watch it together. But I I think if you watch it in that lens, because that that's more your speed, I think you would definitely look at it a little differently. So I actually didn't look at it as much as a ⁓ boxing MMA type movie. I I did look at more of of it as a family drama. Seeing I I thought you would have liked that aspect of it. Because it was But then I I but I don't take points away. I take points away because of the the b the the the fighting element, it I'm taking points away because of that. Why would you take points like your space? No, no, no, no, no. I I just I just I just don't like to see grown men that love each other fight. Well don't you watch having conversations. I don't watch wrestling anymore, but I used to. It's violent. And then didn't you like the smashing machine? That was grown men fighting. Did you watch the smashing machine, Brandon? Yeah. Yeah. D do you like the sm you I know you loved it. He's biased. He's biased. He don't count. But the but the smashing machine more so I think it it it zeroed in because the the fighting felt ⁓ like ⁓ much more of a secondary and it kind of leaned into the dynamics with him and his his his girlfriend, his mental health, his addiction. That was like at the forefront. So I I the Smashing Machine was one hundred percent a story of of Mark Kerr. It wasn't about UFC or ⁓ any any anything it w had nothing to do with fighting. So it just happened to have fighting in it because that's what he did. But it was kind of just really his story and his struggles. A section of it, because it kinda plopped you into the movie where he was already like what like what's going on? And then they how that movie was kind of constructed, now hearing and, you know, reading reviews, it was like it didn't it didn't give you a a an authentic, I think, backstory on who he was as a person because it kind of put you into where he was already at a certain time and then even with the struggles, there were certain parts that were like taken out, I think. Yeah. ⁓ intently. Intently. Symbols. I say I don't I don't understand how you would like that, but you wouldn't like the warrior where there's all kinds of symbolism like that, where like They're cycles of violence, right? So they deal with both brothers deal with the trauma that their dad gave them sep differently, right? So Tommy internalizes everything, then he becomes destructive outwards. He runs from every kind of relationship, he runs from any kind of responsibility. Whereas Brendan takes in everything. He tries to stabilize his life and become protective and everything. And then the violence is the emotional language of the film. Which is very similar to the smashing machine. Maybe maybe if we saw more like we did see ⁓ Joel's character with his wife kinda talking about, hey, we're about to lose the house and, you know, ⁓ I don't want you fighting. I guess I would have preferred to see more of that dynamic with the entire family. Okay. Maybe throw in more scenes with the daughters because we didn't really get context into that. Okay, that's a fair take. ⁓ And then, you know, Tom was there and it's like they kind of highlighted it, they kinda hinted at it, but they didn't really dive in enough into the war aspect of him coming back. I think that would have gave a little bit more of a perspective on why he was moving the way that he was. Okay. Like go into go in go into go into his I don't know, maybe have some th flashback scenes of him having nightmares, of him being in the war and him leaving, like maybe have some BTS or some behind ⁓ some scenes of him like actually leaving and going AWOL. Like that probably may have had some more type of I don't know, I guess like pulling up the strings. And then at the end, ⁓ Joel's character was saying, ⁓ you I don't wanna fight him or you know, he he he they kind of alluded to him having some hesitation to fight his brother because he loves him, but then it's also like, why weren't they also saying, like, bro, you gotta beat him to save your house and put a roof over the head for your kids? Like they kind of kind of skipped over that at the very, very end. He's like, ⁓ no, I love my brother. But if your brother beats you, you're not getting that money. So what are you gonna do? So now do you think it would have played better if they declined to fight each other at the end? Or if Tommy actually won the fight and it ended with Tommy, let's say beating the shit out of Brendan to an inch of his life and it ends in the hospital with Tommy giving him the money. Do you think that would have kind of landed differently? Or if they just refused to fight and walked out? Or stopped mid the fight? So then so then also I'm thinking so if they decided not to fight at all, then remember the the Marshalls were there. So they would take his brother. Yeah. Which they also kind of didn't. We didn't get to see what happened after that because they were already there and they but they also let him fight, which is a little weird. I don't think that would have resulted. That wouldn't happen in real life. He would just get arrested. He would just get arrested. He I think I don't think that would have been in real life. That's definitely You get the agents. Let's see how this plays out. They're placing bets and stuff in the back. No, yeah, that that won't happen. I got I got ten on Tommy. What's within the smart bet? Slip him a razor blade to put in his gloves. Violent. What kind of violent mind do you have? My God, you need a hug. That's why I have horror movies for. All right, so as we wrap up, you Brandon ⁓ Brandon would never watch this again. A hundred times. I definitely I definitely will. I'll probably start tonight. Tonight. I thought it was a great film. There's a couple of other films that are very similar that I also like. ⁓ I watched I think I would definitely Give it one more shot. ⁓ I do kind of feel like I was a little emotionally manipulated with it, which I didn't like. But I I do want to check it out and make sure I didn't ⁓ I didn't miss anything. I might have missed one or two things. ⁓ but I think I would definitely watch it again. ⁓ And I was pleasantly surprised. I was actually surprised by Tom Hardy ⁓ Tom Hardy's performance, even though he was quiet after the film. He's still kinda Are you more of a Tom Hardy fan now, after the film? No. No, no. I I still think he played the Wow. I still think he plays the same character just in a different variation. Venom? Yeah, he played. His character in Venom is a different variation of the character in Venom. You mentioned that to me the other day. So after we talked, I watched that film. This one, Warrior. And I saw a little bit of that. So I don't know if it's because of what you said. Now I'm looking for it. Cause I never seen that before. I never caught that before. So now that you mentioned it, when you said that to me, I was like, ⁓ man, he is. You got the same walk, you know, the same he's got the same he's got the same same manure as Venom. So I was like, man, that's in kind of interesting. ⁓ I never picked up on that before. I mean I'm still a fan of Tom Hardy. I like Tom Hardy. Listen, he's really good at what he does, but he's also very one lane. Jesus Christ. There's a lot listen, there's a lot of people like that. ⁓ JC, I I I have one question that I do want to ask before we wrap up. ⁓ like seeing a movie of this nature, you know, you're a father. ⁓ does this I guess when parents watch these type of movies, does that kind of make you think in the back of your head, like I don't want to be that type of person to my kids? ⁓ you mean from a Nick Nulty perspective? Like like like looking at Nick Nulty and seeing the way he is he was with his kids? Yeah. ⁓ Yeah maybe it could. I mean I don't think about that only 'cause I'm not I'm not that type of father with my kids. So maybe that doesn't really cross my mind. Yeah, of course. ⁓ but I would look at that and and probably say, Man, I would never do that to my kids, you know? Like I would have that type of response. I guess in a way, in a way, yeah. 'Cause I definitely wouldn't d be like that. Like I wouldn't dismiss or like abandon my kids in the way he did in the in the film, you know? Yeah, 'cause there there's there's so many examples in our society of how parents they kind of repeat that cycle to where they say, I'm never gonna do that to what my father, what my mother did and then we end up doing that same thing because, you know, there's a lot of there's a lot of unhealed stuff that's not s resolved and you're not able to like progress and able to be like healthy and like show up for your kids. So I mean that's something I always try to think about. I guess it does cross my mind in in a way. ⁓ But yeah, but I I I I I the way I raised my kids were kind of real discipline, ⁓ like with sports and stuff. I mean, I was very open that let them do whatever they wanted. I didn't really like, you know, I didn't like stop them from you know, they like my kids were young, they wanna watch Fast and Furious and some other f good movies that were kind of rated off. Maybe they shouldn't have watched it at that age, but we always had a set of rules. And as long as they followed those rules in terms of like their you know, how they would talk. ⁓ certain words they could never use, things like that. As long as they kept those rules with me and and they were honest and open about it, then I would let them watch it and enjoy the film. As long as it's an okay film to watch, of course, you know. Yeah. And it's also like, well, it's better that they see it with you because if not, they there's a chance that they might see it with someone. I seen a lot of that where, you know, especially like our generation, you know, our parents were my parents are really strict and they never wanted me to see certain things or they were, you know, I had a curfew when I was growing up. It was kind of crazy. So and they were always trying to stop me from doing all these certain things. And I wasn't like a horrible kid, but a lot of other friends with the same set of rules, they were like someone else. outside of their parents. So it was like, you know, you're not gonna stop it you're not gonna stop the kids anyway. You know, so you might as well manage it a little differently and kind of ⁓ open, you know, an open book, all cards out on the table. And I I think that's always the best way to, you know, just be honest and real with your kids is the best way to do it. You know? So Aw, he's crying. But Brandon's rubbing off on me. Yes. Yes. So you didn't get emotional a little bit at the end when when when they left together, Pat? Nah. Nah. Nah. My body temperature went up like real high. I was like, Yo, what the hell's going on? My dog was next to me. I'm like, Blue, look, look, look. And she's looking at me like what the hell's wrong with this guy? You know? I mean if we're if we're being honest, I saw that ending coming a mile away. I guess. With the music too? You you you you saw them playing that in music? The music. I can't think of the music. What were they playing? What was the music? I I when it was like like music. I guess yeah, it was. It was. He hit that boy he hit that boys in the hood saxophone. And then he's all looking at him, he's like, ⁓ he's like ⁓ Trying to like hold in the tears but his eyes are like this are all puppy and stuff. I love you, Tom. Alright. So give it a letter give give it a letter grade. What would you consider on like an A to an F? Just a basic number grade as a film, not as an MMA movie, not as a drama, just as an overall entertaining A being great, obviously. Like an A like A plus being perfect. D minus. Wow, really? Whoa. B minus. I thought you said D minus. I thought I said D. I was like, I thought you said D. I thought you said D. No, no, no, no. B that. Okay. Be like B like Boy. Okay. Minus. David. Not D as in No. David. We'll stick with David. ⁓ I think I'll go a little higher. I'll probably give it a B B plus. C C plus? C plus? Yeah. Was it the fighting? C. Was it the fighting? Like you should have used a different tool like Tranquilo. Tranquilo. Tranquilo. You should try Don't hit me. It's free of A trial. For a trial, but then you get hooked. That's how they get you. Take a trial. It's not fighting. They're not gonna get hooked. You know that, right? I'm just I'm I know me. If someone hits me, I'm a wait until I'm a wait until they walk outside and I'm gonna break a butt over their head. No one's Damn. The voice gonna hit you. You know you learn to fight so that you never fight, right? That's have to fight. That's a true thing. I I've I've I've I I've heard so much. Yeah, I've heard so much about people who actually like fight on like a regular they're not they're very ⁓ opposed to doing that in their cause, you know, they're like I take my emotions out in that lane, so I would never want to take that out on someone who's testing me. Right, Pat? I I haven't fought in twenty Twenty four I haven't thrown a punch in twenty five years. To like freshman year, inside a boxing ring. No, ⁓ I was an adult. I got into ⁓ yeah, never thank God, man. I I definitely don't look for any trouble. ⁓ People see me, they move out the they move out the way. You better start calling the street. I'm telling you, take a jujitsu class. I think it'll change your mind. But it it it's different. No, actually I I I I wanna take that. Yeah. I have bad joints, I can't do any kind of MMA. I stick with boxing. Man, those fucking rib shots. Ooh, to the kidneys? Woo. Man. Especially like ⁓ Brazilian Jiu Jitsu where they fucking ⁓ sorry, Muay Thai, where they fucking kick your cat. No, I did that too. I I've seen somebody get their quads. You know how bad those are those kicks are so painful. We're watching the fight last night and ⁓ my wife is there and I'm like, You see those kicks that they're doing right there, those little kicks? That's like you probably get rather get kicked in the face. It's better. It's crazy. That is so painful because you can't walk. And if they hit the side of your knee, you're done. You're done. It's ⁓ right. Do yoga instead, guys. Do yoga instead. Do yoga. Yoga's good. Yo Brand Brandon does yoga in jujitsu. Yoga I do yoga. Yeah. Pilates, bar, those are all very, very hard, foundational, works on the core, works on your breathing. I mean, like I would think that that would translate over into boxing, into jujitsu. like a form of yoke. It's good. It's good. Allegedly. You should try it. Try it. Yeah. All right. ⁓ This has been the Warrior episode of the Revisitation Rights podcasts. Come back on Thursday. Right? Thursday, yeah. Come back on Thursday. Learn a little bit more about J C and how he likes to allegedly throw elbows at people when he's not supposed to. I'm Pat. I'm J C. I'm Brandon. And we are done.