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The Assassination and Mrs. Paine · Conspiracy! The Show

0:10
Speaker 1: Watran. I'm a checked the adults.
0:31
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm Adam Todd Brown.
0:36
Speaker 2: Who are you.
0:37
Speaker 3: I'm Olivia Hidar.
0:39
Speaker 1: We are your hosts Olivia. How's it going?
0:43
Speaker 3: Not bad? Not bad? You know, fourth of July weekend,
0:47
Speaker 3: well post fourth of July weekend.
0:49
Speaker 2: But yeah, we took last week off because we're very patriotic.
0:53
Speaker 3: Of course, yeah, they had to observe.
0:56
Speaker 2: Exceedingly patriotic, like on on a lit patres look.
1:03
Speaker 3: I needed to take the day off to watch the
1:05
Speaker 3: only movie that you can watch on in on Independence Day, which.
1:10
Speaker 1: Born on the fourth Joe, oh oh, of course, of course. No.
1:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched Wimbledon all week, Like every morning starts
1:18
Speaker 2: at eight a m. Eastern, so I would get up
1:21
Speaker 2: five five thirty watch Wimbledon.
1:24
Speaker 1: Sees. It was. It was fun times.
1:26
Speaker 2: But now we are back in the saddle talking about
1:29
Speaker 2: government malfeasance. Yes, specifically JFK related government malfeasance. Can I
1:37
Speaker 2: tell you how shocked I am that there are still
1:40
Speaker 2: interesting JFK documentaries in twenty twenty two.
1:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I booted it up, I figured it would
1:47
Speaker 3: be older, and no, it's.
1:50
Speaker 2: Uh, it's very recent. It's brand new. It's not a
1:53
Speaker 2: brand new theory, but it is a thing. It's an
1:57
Speaker 2: aspect of the JFK assassination. I had never heard about,
2:02
Speaker 2: or if I had, it just didn't catch my attention
2:04
Speaker 2: that much. But right, we're talking about Ruth and Michael Payne,
2:09
Speaker 2: yes by way of a new documentary called the Assassination
2:14
Speaker 2: and Missus Pain, which again JFK documentary released in the
2:20
Speaker 2: twenty twenty second year of Our Lord, seems unlikely.
2:25
Speaker 1: But here we are. What did you think of this documentary?
2:30
Speaker 3: I liked it. I thought it was pretty good. I mean,
2:32
Speaker 3: like you're saying, there's not like a lot that's fully
2:36
Speaker 3: new here outside of the actual interview with Ruth Paine
2:42
Speaker 3: and a couple of other interviews like that. And even then,
2:46
Speaker 3: you know, part of the nature of Ruth Pain in
2:49
Speaker 3: the public eye is that her story doesn't really change,
2:53
Speaker 3: and so even her new interviews and such are not
2:57
Speaker 3: necessarily giving you new stuff.
2:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.
2:59
Speaker 2: What ippreciate about this documentary is the way it's presented.
3:03
Speaker 2: Because generally documentaries are very along party lines these days.
3:10
Speaker 2: There's usually a side that believes a conspiracy theory aside
3:15
Speaker 2: that doesn't believe it, and most of the times a
3:18
Speaker 2: documentary is going to represent one of those sides and
3:23
Speaker 2: everyone is invited to this party. The person making the
3:27
Speaker 2: film seems like he is on the fence about Ruth
3:31
Speaker 2: Paine and her CIA connections.
3:35
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ruth pain is interviewed.
3:37
Speaker 2: Extensively in this, and she is adamant that she is
3:39
Speaker 2: not CIA. But then they also interview a bunch of
3:43
Speaker 2: different writers on both sides of the argument. So it's
3:47
Speaker 2: a very balanced documentary in that way. You get to
3:50
Speaker 2: hear both sides of the story. And I appreciated that
3:54
Speaker 2: because that's.
3:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very rare with a conspiracy theory documentary.
3:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I imagine that the guy making the movie,
4:01
Speaker 3: it does seem like he believes in some sort of conspiracy,
4:05
Speaker 3: but it does remain pretty even handed in general. I
4:10
Speaker 3: just feel like he probably wouldn't have even made this
4:13
Speaker 3: if he didn't believe in it at all. Yeah.
4:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean at the end, it's pretty clear that
4:20
Speaker 2: he has suspicions, right, But I do like that those
4:25
Speaker 2: suspicions are presented along with evidence to support them, as
4:30
Speaker 2: opposed to him just saying well, I heard this about
4:34
Speaker 2: your sister. It's more like well, what about this document
4:37
Speaker 2: that says your sister worked for the CIA.
4:41
Speaker 1: It's a well executed documentary in that way.
4:44
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it does also a good job
4:46
Speaker 3: of showing, no matter what you think of Ruth Payne
4:50
Speaker 3: and her honesty or her story, you do see kind
4:54
Speaker 3: of how living in this world since the assassination can
5:00
Speaker 3: be invasive and unnerving.
5:03
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:03
Speaker 3: I think it does a pretty good job of showing,
5:06
Speaker 3: you know, like showing and flashing comments on articles and
5:10
Speaker 3: videos and things on the screen where people are kind
5:14
Speaker 3: of being very vicious about a lady that they don't know.
5:18
Speaker 3: So it's it's just interesting. I think that. I think
5:21
Speaker 3: that's a very interesting aspect of her story personally.
5:24
Speaker 1: Yeah.
5:25
Speaker 2: It also, though, doesn't do anything to make me less suspicious, because,
5:31
Speaker 2: like so many other figures in the JFK assassination, maybe
5:34
Speaker 2: not immediately, but at some point, you have every right
5:38
Speaker 2: to be like, I don't want to fucking talk about
5:39
Speaker 2: that anymore. Yeah, Ruth Payne always seems to want to
5:43
Speaker 2: talk about it, Sure.
5:45
Speaker 3: But at the same time she's accessible in a way
5:48
Speaker 3: that you know, like, I don't know, I understand that
5:50
Speaker 3: as a reaction though, like just taking like again, putting
5:54
Speaker 3: aside any other like what she knew or didn't know,
5:59
Speaker 3: or did or didn't do or ever, like if you're
6:02
Speaker 3: not involved with it at all, and like the history
6:05
Speaker 3: has now settled itself in your lap and you have
6:08
Speaker 3: to deal with it for the rest of your life.
6:11
Speaker 3: I could understand just facing that and being like whatever,
6:14
Speaker 3: Like yeah, you know, I like, this is just it.
6:17
Speaker 3: And that was the vibe that I got from her interview.
6:20
Speaker 3: That was the thing I like the most about the
6:22
Speaker 3: movie is I thought that she just seemed like an
6:25
Speaker 3: engaging and interesting person who I thought would seemed like
6:29
Speaker 3: a good hang.
6:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
6:31
Speaker 2: I imagine most CIA agents are engaging and interesting people,
6:36
Speaker 2: at least the ones who have to work in the
6:37
Speaker 2: field and do shit like this. But whether she is
6:41
Speaker 2: or not, Like, that's right, another story. We should back
6:44
Speaker 2: up a little bit and mention that the crux of
6:47
Speaker 2: this documentary it's about a woman named Ruth Payne, and
6:51
Speaker 2: people accuse her of being a CIA operative who helped
6:54
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald assassinate JFK essentially, and it starts in
7:02
Speaker 2: February nineteen sixty three, at least the documentary does with
7:07
Speaker 2: Ruth meeting Marina Oswald at a party and Ruth wants
7:12
Speaker 2: to learn to speak Russian, as most Americans did in
7:16
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty three, and Marina speaks Russian, so naturally she
7:21
Speaker 2: moved Marina into her home, sure, presented without judgment? Is
7:26
Speaker 2: that tidbit? Also, why did she want to learn Russian
7:29
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty three? Like she's asked that at one point,
7:32
Speaker 2: and she's like, you know, the Cold War. It's like,
7:34
Speaker 2: that's not yah, that's not true, are you tan?
7:38
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. I get it. It's not something
7:41
Speaker 3: that pops out to be as necessarily immediately suspicious.
7:45
Speaker 2: It does pop out to me as not the kind
7:48
Speaker 2: of thing you move a person into your house.
7:50
Speaker 3: For sure, But also, I mean, who knows. I don't
7:53
Speaker 3: know what that tire story is.
7:56
Speaker 2: She says Lee Harvey Oswald was mostly around on the
7:59
Speaker 2: week ends. But then one day, Olivia, you're not gonna
8:02
Speaker 2: believe this shot the president dead.
8:05
Speaker 3: Wait, the President of the United States.
8:07
Speaker 2: Right between the eyes with a shellfish talks and pet Wait, No,
8:10
Speaker 2: that's to hold a pale horse books from a distance
8:15
Speaker 2: with a rifle. And just like that, Ruth and her
8:19
Speaker 2: husband Michael find themselves smack dab in the middle of
8:23
Speaker 2: one of the biggest crimes in American history. Which here's
8:26
Speaker 2: the thing. If everything that happens surrounding Ruth pain is
8:30
Speaker 2: all coincidences, what a crazy fucking set of coincidences happened
8:37
Speaker 2: to this woman and this family in a very short
8:40
Speaker 2: amount of time. Yeah, like five months you move someone
8:44
Speaker 2: into your house and five months later they're assassinating the
8:47
Speaker 2: President of the United States. I mean, yeah, absolutely shocking
8:52
Speaker 2: turn of events. And there's stuff that comes up in
8:56
Speaker 2: the documentary later about Ruth's movements and affiliations that I
9:01
Speaker 2: don't know. I do think it's suspicious. And I mean
9:06
Speaker 2: whenever the CIA is around, the CIA is around, Like
9:09
Speaker 2: that's that's just how it fucked. Like when Bob Marley
9:12
Speaker 2: got shot in Jamaica, the cameraman covering that concert also
9:16
Speaker 2: was in the CIA, and it's like, oh, yeah, that's
9:19
Speaker 2: that's probably nothing, Like.
9:21
Speaker 3: That's seemingly unrelated.
9:23
Speaker 2: She's just doing CIA cameraman work on the side and
9:26
Speaker 2: also covering you know, potential black Messiah that's gonna have
9:30
Speaker 2: to be murdered someday anyway. So she is asked a
9:35
Speaker 2: whole lot of questions by the Warren Commission and She's
9:39
Speaker 2: asked a lot of questions in the days after the assassination,
9:42
Speaker 2: obviously because she was she had the assassin living in
9:46
Speaker 2: her home right, And it seems like what people are
9:51
Speaker 2: insinuating is that she is kind of acting as the
9:55
Speaker 2: mouthpiece for the conspirator's version of event, which does remind
10:02
Speaker 2: me a lot of This reminds me of Jonestown, but
10:06
Speaker 2: that's because I think the CIA did everything ever. Yeah,
10:12
Speaker 2: but one of the things you saw immediately after Jonestown
10:16
Speaker 2: is survivors start coming forward, and the main one was
10:20
Speaker 2: this woman named Deborah Layton, who she survived because she
10:24
Speaker 2: did it like she did Jonestown. She wasn't one of
10:27
Speaker 2: the people who was being mine controlled and enslaved. She
10:30
Speaker 2: was like the CFO of Jonestown. And then she escaped
10:35
Speaker 2: like six weeks before, escaped six weeks before and was like,
10:39
Speaker 2: I'm a survivor, baby. It was just that one guy
10:42
Speaker 2: who talked all of us into doing this, and the
10:46
Speaker 2: general public was like, yeah, this is a tragedy. We
10:48
Speaker 2: don't want to think any more about it beyond that.
10:50
Speaker 2: You're probably right right, And I could see if there
10:54
Speaker 2: is a conspiracy of foot and it involves the CIA.
10:58
Speaker 2: This is a thing they're definitely going to do to
11:00
Speaker 2: get someone out in front of that to.
11:02
Speaker 1: Tell their story. Sure, I really don't.
11:05
Speaker 2: Hate the theory that the CIA might have been who
11:08
Speaker 2: killed JFK. I don't doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald fired
11:12
Speaker 2: some shots.
11:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, of those theories of the conspiracy mafia, USSR, CIA,
11:22
Speaker 3: these things, like the CIA makes the most sense out
11:25
Speaker 3: of all of them. Or the military, as is mentioned
11:28
Speaker 3: in this documentary.
11:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like a combination of the CIA, right exactly,
11:32
Speaker 2: the military, Like, it wouldn't be that shocking in that sense.
11:35
Speaker 2: It would have been a coup. Like it would have
11:37
Speaker 2: been a military coup. But there's no stipulation that says
11:42
Speaker 2: when you pull off a military coup, you also have
11:44
Speaker 2: to get in front of the nation and go.
11:45
Speaker 1: Guess what we just did. We just pulled off a
11:48
Speaker 1: military coup.
11:49
Speaker 3: Like, Sure, here's the thing.
11:51
Speaker 2: We're gonna jump ahead in the notes a little bit.
11:53
Speaker 2: At one point, there's someone that's interviewed in this and
11:57
Speaker 2: he delivers this line where he says, well, everything can
12:00
Speaker 2: be true. I disagree. Here's how everything could be true?
12:04
Speaker 2: Because my favorite JFK conspiracy, I think one of the
12:07
Speaker 2: most well researched theories. Is the Secret Service agent, yes,
12:12
Speaker 2: that's yes, shooting JFK.
12:16
Speaker 1: Here's the thing.
12:16
Speaker 2: What if the CIA was trying to scare JFK and
12:22
Speaker 2: not kill him, and just scare him with an attempt
12:27
Speaker 2: on his life that they would later be able to
12:30
Speaker 2: tie to the KGB, so then they could go, Okay,
12:33
Speaker 2: mister President, now do you think we should carry on
12:37
Speaker 2: with fighting communism in the world or do you still
12:40
Speaker 2: think we should demilitarize and just let this shit happen
12:43
Speaker 2: like they're shooting at you from the book depository.
12:46
Speaker 1: But then uh.
12:46
Speaker 2: Oh, secret Service agent, completely unaware that this plot is afoot,
12:51
Speaker 2: according to the other JFK theory, stands up in the car.
12:55
Speaker 2: Here's this shooting, and when the car pulls off, he
12:59
Speaker 2: accidentally fires a shot hits JFK. Everyone's right in that situation, Lee,
13:05
Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald acted alone. Technically, the CIA did conspire to
13:11
Speaker 2: shoot at JFK, but maybe not kill him, and then
13:15
Speaker 2: the government accidentally killed him, And of course there's gonna
13:19
Speaker 2: be a huge cover up in that case. Sure, so
13:22
Speaker 2: everyone can be right. That's one of my favorite things
13:24
Speaker 2: about Harvey Oswald.
13:27
Speaker 3: Well, again, this is the thing.
13:28
Speaker 1: When we're telling again such a conspiracy.
13:31
Speaker 3: I like that. That's a good story. It's a very
13:35
Speaker 3: neat that's the story.
13:36
Speaker 1: It's all always only going to be a story, right.
13:40
Speaker 3: This is this has come up whenever we've talked about
13:42
Speaker 3: the JFK in the past on the show. And yes,
13:46
Speaker 3: not like in depth.
13:47
Speaker 1: But we have.
13:50
Speaker 3: Podcast sure, I know we've done a few. But yeah,
13:55
Speaker 3: like it happened, you know, seventy years ago and or whatever,
14:00
Speaker 3: maybe eighty. I can't. I can't do math. I have
14:03
Speaker 3: to do math soon. It's gonna be a nightmare. It
14:05
Speaker 3: happened a long time ago. We're never going to know,
14:09
Speaker 3: for one certain exactly what happened. It just can't happen.
14:14
Speaker 3: Maybe back in the day, like closer to when the
14:18
Speaker 3: event took place, it would have been possible for some
14:22
Speaker 3: sort of complete picture to come out. But like the
14:25
Speaker 3: further we get away from it, the more I just
14:28
Speaker 3: think we're just not going to know. We can't unless
14:31
Speaker 3: there's like literally written down somewhere in like you know,
14:36
Speaker 3: the archives of the CIA. But even then you know
14:39
Speaker 3: then you're like, well, is that real? Like or is
14:42
Speaker 3: this like a smoke screen? That's what is this?
14:44
Speaker 2: That's a thing that comes up in this documentary is
14:48
Speaker 2: when all of the JFK files were declassified. Yeah, there's
14:52
Speaker 2: still a bunch that aren't. Yeah, and the Secret Service,
14:57
Speaker 2: I think it was reached out to Trump and was like, hey,
15:00
Speaker 2: leave these last few classified because our guys shot him exactly, yeah, exactly,
15:07
Speaker 2: And then he did that, and then he was like,
15:10
Speaker 2: all right, I'll leave him classified until twenty twenty one
15:13
Speaker 2: and let fucking Biden deal with it.
15:15
Speaker 1: And Biden left them classified.
15:18
Speaker 2: Which, yeah, with it being the Secret Service, I still man,
15:23
Speaker 2: I still like that theory.
15:24
Speaker 3: And I bet if you're the Secret Service, you like
15:27
Speaker 3: the as long as you don't ask too much too often.
15:31
Speaker 3: You could be like, the president will just do whatever
15:33
Speaker 3: the fuck you asked them to because you're there. God
15:35
Speaker 3: damn your bodyguards. Yeah, of course, you know they get
15:42
Speaker 3: they get a pretty cushy gig. But like I've said,
15:45
Speaker 3: that's always been the theory outside of Oswald Solo that
15:52
Speaker 3: has appealed to me the most on a lot of levels.
15:57
Speaker 3: It works in a way that a lot of the
15:59
Speaker 3: other ones are either too neat in a writerly way,
16:03
Speaker 3: which is why I where I get tripped up in
16:05
Speaker 3: a lot of the older theories and like or just
16:09
Speaker 3: kind of I don't know that every theory has holes
16:12
Speaker 3: in it except for that one, basically except for it's
16:16
Speaker 3: a secret Service agent.
16:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the amount of research he put into that theory.
16:21
Speaker 2: And I like the fact that of all the people
16:24
Speaker 2: who tried to recreate Lee Harvey Oswald getting those three
16:27
Speaker 2: shots off, it's the guy who was actually able to
16:31
Speaker 2: do it, who was like, no, no, no, there's no
16:35
Speaker 2: fucking way he got it like it because it took
16:38
Speaker 2: him like three tries, and he's like, I'm the best.
16:42
Speaker 1: I'm the absolute best at this.
16:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
16:44
Speaker 2: So yeah, but we we've covered that theory before, but
16:48
Speaker 2: people should watch that documentary.
16:49
Speaker 1: It's called JFK The Smoking Gun.
16:51
Speaker 2: I think it's I don't know if it's still on Netflix,
16:53
Speaker 2: but it's definitely on Amazon.
16:54
Speaker 1: I saw it when I was scrolling through to find this.
16:57
Speaker 1: That leads to a.
16:58
Speaker 2: Good question because you mentioned if something had come out
17:01
Speaker 2: back in the day, then maybe things would be different,
17:05
Speaker 2: but we're never really going to get any sort of
17:07
Speaker 2: justice here, which brings up the question what's your stance
17:10
Speaker 2: on the Warren Commission, and especially the Warren Commission after
17:14
Speaker 2: the things that are presented about the Warren Commission in
17:17
Speaker 2: this documentary.
17:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like I've never read the whole decision,
17:23
Speaker 3: so I mean, of course I can't speak from too
17:27
Speaker 3: much of a place of authority, but you know, obviously
17:32
Speaker 3: I find flaws in most of these sorts of large
17:36
Speaker 3: government investigations into you know, either tragedies or accusations against
17:43
Speaker 3: the government or whatnot. And I don't know, like, even
17:47
Speaker 3: though I don't necessarily believe in grander conspiracy theories about
17:53
Speaker 3: the assassination, I don't necessarily trust everything the Warren Commission
17:57
Speaker 3: is coming out with, you know, like.
18:00
Speaker 2: Well I already didn't trust the Warren Commission that much,
18:04
Speaker 2: just because, yeah, it's like the government investigating itself. And
18:07
Speaker 2: sometimes that works, like the Church Committee is how we
18:11
Speaker 2: found out about a lot of CIA things. But I
18:13
Speaker 2: think that also just kind of tipped the CIA off
18:16
Speaker 2: to like what things they needed to hide better going forward.
18:19
Speaker 1: I don't think they changed anything. But there's a.
18:22
Speaker 2: Moment in this documentary that I found fascinating that I
18:25
Speaker 2: had also never seen or heard. And this is jumping
18:28
Speaker 2: ahead in the notes a little.
18:29
Speaker 3: Bit to it.
18:30
Speaker 2: It's not like the people at home have the notes.
18:32
Speaker 2: They don't there, But it's the phone.
18:34
Speaker 1: Call between that was interesting LBJ.
18:38
Speaker 2: And I don't remember who he was talking to, because
18:42
Speaker 2: there's there's two we'll talk. There's the j Edgar Hoover
18:44
Speaker 2: one that they only have the transcript up right, But
18:47
Speaker 2: then there's a recording of him.
18:49
Speaker 3: That was with Warren. I think that was with Warren himself.
18:52
Speaker 1: Well, he's no, he's talking about Warren. He's OK.
18:55
Speaker 2: In this phone call, he's talking about the Warren Commission
18:58
Speaker 2: and how he asked Earl Warren twice to be a
19:04
Speaker 2: part of the Warren Commission and Earl Warren told him no,
19:08
Speaker 2: and then he said so then I asked a third time,
19:11
Speaker 2: and I told him about this incident at the Mexican
19:15
Speaker 2: embassy that I was told about, and he says he
19:18
Speaker 2: started crying and said, I'll do whatever you want. And
19:22
Speaker 2: basically on this phone call, LBJ says, he told Earl Warren, like,
19:28
Speaker 2: this commission has to go a certain way, like you
19:31
Speaker 2: have to find a certain thing otherwise what's going to
19:34
Speaker 2: come out is that Russia did this and it's going
19:37
Speaker 2: to catapult us into World War three. And here's the
19:41
Speaker 2: thing I think that's still the CIA. I think that
19:45
Speaker 2: is the CIA going to LBJ because the Mexico City
19:49
Speaker 2: thing with Lee Harvey Oswald to explain it. There's this
19:53
Speaker 2: theory that we'll talk about in more detail later that
19:55
Speaker 2: at one point before the assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald just
19:58
Speaker 2: showed up at the Soviet embassy in Mexico. Right, And
20:03
Speaker 2: what comes out in this phone call between LBJ and
20:05
Speaker 2: j Edgar Hoover is that the person they have pictures
20:08
Speaker 2: and videos of the person who showed up at the
20:10
Speaker 2: embassy and it's actually not.
20:12
Speaker 1: Lee Harvey Oswald. But there are all these they're getting
20:16
Speaker 1: all this information that it is, so someone is lying.
20:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it feels to me like if the CIA
20:23
Speaker 2: did this, I could see them immediately going to LBJ
20:27
Speaker 2: and being like, look at all this evidence. I just
20:30
Speaker 2: people at home. I just unfurled the scroll to show LBJ.
20:34
Speaker 2: I could see them going to him and being like,
20:36
Speaker 2: look at all this evidence that Russia did this. We
20:39
Speaker 2: have to cover this up. We can't let people know
20:41
Speaker 2: Russia did this because there's going to be a war
20:43
Speaker 2: if we do went all the while the CIA did it, sure,
20:47
Speaker 2: just like yeah, we got to cover this up, but
20:49
Speaker 2: because of Russia.
20:50
Speaker 3: Right, But also but then because Russia.
20:54
Speaker 1: Killing JFK would have been fucking insane.
20:57
Speaker 3: No, it would have been I mean that would have
20:58
Speaker 3: obviously caused it international crisis.
21:02
Speaker 1: If there's no way they would have fucking done.
21:04
Speaker 3: No, that one is easy to dismiss, very very like
21:08
Speaker 3: it doesn't really make sense. But also though this part
21:12
Speaker 3: though the CIA, like I don't know. I guess I
21:16
Speaker 3: just don't see if they're supposed to be assassinating him
21:20
Speaker 3: in the first place, because they probably want to do
21:24
Speaker 3: some more Bay of Pigs type things and he's against that.
21:27
Speaker 3: Then that you know LBJ warning Warren off because you know,
21:33
Speaker 3: of finding out about it being Russia. I mean like
21:36
Speaker 3: it feels like, if anything, they would want it to
21:38
Speaker 3: be revealed that it was Russia because they would want
21:41
Speaker 3: military conflict.
21:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they didn't want a nuclear war, like they
21:45
Speaker 2: didn't wear global annihilation. That's what I was talking about.
21:48
Speaker 2: He's specifically something would.
21:50
Speaker 1: Kill forty million Americans in an out.
21:51
Speaker 3: Right I figured that, I mean, but still, I guess
21:55
Speaker 3: I have a hard time with anybody's mindset who posts
21:58
Speaker 3: World War two, wants war and doesn't see that potentially
22:02
Speaker 3: becoming a nuclear war.
22:04
Speaker 2: So yeah, the JFK movie comes up a lot lots
22:09
Speaker 2: of Oliver Stone in this which bad News prompted me
22:12
Speaker 2: to watch an episode of the Unseen History of America,
22:16
Speaker 2: and we might need cover that there's only ten episodes.
22:23
Speaker 2: I saw the JFK movie and I remember being very underwhelmed.
22:26
Speaker 3: I mean I was in high school.
22:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw it as a teen and was like, okay,
22:31
Speaker 2: so I still don't really know who.
22:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely I might rewatch it sometime. Oliverstone has
22:39
Speaker 3: never been my guy as a filmmaker, even his politics aside,
22:46
Speaker 3: and so yeah, I don't have fond memories of the
22:50
Speaker 3: JFK movie, but I also don't really have strong memories.
22:53
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't rewatch it remember it.
22:55
Speaker 3: But Oliver Stone does have some hits obviously. Oh yeah,
22:58
Speaker 3: like Natural Born Killers.
23:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. I liked Platoon.
23:01
Speaker 3: Platoon, sure, although I mean it's a little bit it's
23:05
Speaker 3: one of the I don't know, it's not my favorite
23:06
Speaker 3: of the Vietnam movies.
23:07
Speaker 2: So I had a Platoon poster on my wall as
23:11
Speaker 2: a child, or only because they were giving away free
23:15
Speaker 2: movie posters at the video store. One sure, and it
23:18
Speaker 2: was like the coolest one.
23:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's true.
23:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in retrospect, the last fucking thing I would
23:24
Speaker 2: hang on my wall now. So Oliver Stone is brought
23:29
Speaker 2: up because there's an interesting discrepancy here in the movie.
23:33
Speaker 2: There is a Ruth Payne like character depict yes in
23:37
Speaker 2: the JFK movie, but her name is not Ruth Payne,
23:40
Speaker 2: and Ruth Payne in this documentary says, well, I guess
23:43
Speaker 2: he just didn't have my number and couldn't call.
23:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.
23:46
Speaker 2: Oliver Stone told Congress that he reached out to Ruth
23:49
Speaker 2: Payne and that she wouldn't speak to them, which raises
23:52
Speaker 2: the question of who do you trust, and the answer
23:54
Speaker 2: for me is neither of them.
23:56
Speaker 3: Yeah, i'd be trust I don't know that I trust either,
24:01
Speaker 3: But like, I don't necessarily believe Alliver Stone out of
24:05
Speaker 3: the two of these people, Like why is she lying
24:08
Speaker 3: about him talking to her? Like, Like, it's not like
24:11
Speaker 3: there's anything in that movie that is I don't know that.
24:15
Speaker 3: This doesn't really make any sense to me.
24:18
Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean again, I don't super duper remember
24:21
Speaker 2: the movie. That's probably a movie we should I mean,
24:23
Speaker 2: I cover for an episode at some points, but yeah,
24:27
Speaker 2: I don't remember how she's depicted. But I'm assuming just
24:30
Speaker 2: the fact that it comes up. She's probably not depicted
24:33
Speaker 2: great sure in the conspiratorial view of this story, like
24:38
Speaker 2: it's brought up at the end of this and I
24:40
Speaker 2: think the guy makes a good case, like if you
24:42
Speaker 2: believe there was a conspiracy here, it doesn't work without
24:45
Speaker 2: Ruth Payne, like she is either an integral part of
24:49
Speaker 2: the conspiracy or just the flat out unluckiest woman of
24:55
Speaker 2: all time.
24:56
Speaker 1: Like that trip she.
24:57
Speaker 2: Takes right before the assassination where she goes from hanging
25:03
Speaker 2: out with a head of the CIA in the Hampton's
25:06
Speaker 2: Sure to Washington, d C. Then onto New Orleans to
25:11
Speaker 2: pick up Marina Oswald and the gun, and then on
25:15
Speaker 2: to Dallas and then a few weeks later jfk assassinated.
25:19
Speaker 2: If she's not involved, that is the itinerary of the
25:22
Speaker 2: world's least lucky person.
25:25
Speaker 3: I yeah, I mean I believe from at least from
25:28
Speaker 3: the way they describe her role in the film. In
25:31
Speaker 3: this documentary, they describe her as a unwinning pawn or something.
25:38
Speaker 2: That's what I wonder about the Quaker thing, because there
25:41
Speaker 2: was that thing for a long time where I don't
25:44
Speaker 2: think it still is this way, but for the longest
25:46
Speaker 2: time the Secret Service would almost exclusively.
25:48
Speaker 1: Hire Mormons sucause Mormons.
25:51
Speaker 2: Just had the right level of discipline, at least some
25:53
Speaker 2: of them, to handle a job like being a Secret
25:56
Speaker 2: Service agent, right, And I wonder if there's something in
26:00
Speaker 2: Quaker's nature that the fucking CIA has sussed out where
26:05
Speaker 2: they're like, we can get these motherfuckers to do anything
26:08
Speaker 2: we want.
26:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, which you mean it is possible.
26:12
Speaker 3: I guess, like there, it might also just be that there,
26:16
Speaker 3: you know, Pacifists, they're like they've got all of like
26:23
Speaker 3: a philosophically trusting nature like quick, that could be the thing,
26:29
Speaker 3: like you know, and that's it, or you know, and
26:32
Speaker 3: that's I guess a possibility.
26:35
Speaker 1: But yeah, I don't know.
26:37
Speaker 2: Is it weird that Michael Painne and Ruth Payne ended
26:39
Speaker 2: up in the same senior living facility forty years after
26:42
Speaker 2: their divorce?
26:43
Speaker 3: I like, that didn't really strike again, I mean, whenever
26:47
Speaker 3: people are gonna think I'm some fucking government patsy or whatever,
26:51
Speaker 3: because I like, because I keep saying, well, didn't really
26:53
Speaker 3: strike me as that suspicious, But it didn't. I mean,
26:57
Speaker 3: it didn't really strike me as that suspicious. They're old people,
27:00
Speaker 3: they live in the samel Town, Like you know.
27:04
Speaker 2: They're in northern cat Like they're in the Sonoma area.
27:06
Speaker 2: It's not but that's small.
27:08
Speaker 3: But also it's like, it's not like that just because
27:11
Speaker 3: they stopped being married that they stop being in each
27:14
Speaker 3: other's lives. They had children together, Like.
27:18
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just saying like it just.
27:20
Speaker 3: Didn't jump out at me as immediately suspicious. But I
27:23
Speaker 3: didn't go into this movie as like especially like some
27:27
Speaker 3: of the people maybe who are sighted in the documentary
27:30
Speaker 3: might like looking for her lying and like looking for
27:36
Speaker 3: weird like things like that. I didn't really know that's
27:39
Speaker 3: where it was going to go as I was watching.
27:41
Speaker 1: But yeah, I guess I didn't.
27:44
Speaker 2: I also didn't go in though, like immediately having a
27:47
Speaker 2: reason to trust her.
27:49
Speaker 3: No, mean either, I just kind of liked her. I
27:50
Speaker 3: just liked your vibe she had like a she's kind
27:52
Speaker 3: of a brassy lady.
27:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just immediately won over by her into
27:58
Speaker 3: early interviews. She didn't realized that I was supposed to
28:01
Speaker 3: be skeptical.
28:07
Speaker 2: The documentary does point out that Ruth and Michael Pain
28:11
Speaker 2: were never shown to have direct connections to the CIA,
28:14
Speaker 2: but also that's a really hard thing to prove, like
28:18
Speaker 2: the whole point of the CIA is you're not supposed
28:20
Speaker 2: to be able.
28:21
Speaker 1: I do that's there are connections to people that's.
28:25
Speaker 3: Not I mean, obviously that's not reason enough on its
28:28
Speaker 3: own to dismiss right.
28:30
Speaker 2: And I don't think everyone who works for the CIA
28:33
Speaker 2: knows they work for the CIA, and I don't think
28:37
Speaker 2: everyone who works for the CIA necessarily does it willingly,
28:42
Speaker 2: at least if you read The CIA and the Cult
28:45
Speaker 2: of Intelligence, which is a book I've done some solo
28:49
Speaker 2: episodes about it. Came out in the seventies. It's pretty
28:52
Speaker 2: hard to find now, it's out of print, but it
28:54
Speaker 2: was a CIA whistleblower just going the whole nine yards
28:59
Speaker 2: explaining exacts actly how the CIA worked. And it was
29:03
Speaker 2: a very common thing for them to go to someone
29:05
Speaker 2: and be like, well, here's what we need help with.
29:07
Speaker 1: Here's what you're gonna be in.
29:08
Speaker 2: Trouble for if you don't help us, Like the FBI
29:11
Speaker 2: does that, like law enforcement does that all the time.
29:14
Speaker 2: They'll hang something over someone's head and be like, well,
29:17
Speaker 2: you have to cooperate with us in this and that
29:19
Speaker 2: will go away.
29:21
Speaker 3: M hm.
29:21
Speaker 2: So yeah, they don't definitively prove that Ruth Paine and
29:27
Speaker 2: Michael Payne are in the CIA, But man, they have
29:30
Speaker 2: some suss connections to the CIA, that's for sure.
29:35
Speaker 3: I Mean the weirdest connection was just that he was
29:39
Speaker 3: of Forbes.
29:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, Michael Payne.
29:41
Speaker 3: That's creepier to be than any possible connection to the CIA.
29:48
Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:48
Speaker 3: Well that and it just seemed like they were like
29:50
Speaker 3: really rich, white like people from the Northeast to then
29:54
Speaker 3: like move to the South.
29:56
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it also to me speaks to
29:58
Speaker 2: him being someone who because Ruth she was like.
30:03
Speaker 1: Well there's more than one kind of Forbes. No, there's
30:06
Speaker 1: not like a rich.
30:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, like I got wish he was saying. But like
30:11
Speaker 3: at the same time, I was like, but they're still
30:14
Speaker 3: like they have an island.
30:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so, like you got to take into
30:18
Speaker 2: account how bored rich people must be. Like when I
30:22
Speaker 2: did the Behold a Pale Horse episode, one of the
30:25
Speaker 2: early people who intervenes in Bill Cooper's life is a
30:29
Speaker 2: guy named John Lear, who is the son of the
30:32
Speaker 2: guy who invented the Lear Jet and something else he like,
30:38
Speaker 2: something bigger than that that he also invented I don't
30:40
Speaker 2: remember exactly what, but this kid was rich and liked flying,
30:45
Speaker 2: so he flew for the CIA. But he also just
30:48
Speaker 2: happened to show up in the life of this conspiracy
30:51
Speaker 2: theorist and slide him information that turned out to be
30:55
Speaker 2: mostly fake because John Lear was bored and rich, and
30:58
Speaker 2: so he worked for the CIA. Yeah, because it let
31:01
Speaker 2: him pursue his fucking passions, but in a way that
31:05
Speaker 2: you know, he could still be a quasi criminal and
31:07
Speaker 2: be exciting about it. And someone with that kind of money,
31:11
Speaker 2: like them and the CIA have the same basic interest,
31:14
Speaker 2: which is American business interests in keeping them going. Like
31:19
Speaker 2: I think that would be the perfect kind of person
31:20
Speaker 2: to collaborate with the CIA on any number of things,
31:25
Speaker 2: But I don't know. Like Ruth's dad worked for us AID,
31:31
Speaker 2: which doesn't automatically mean you're in the CIA, But I
31:35
Speaker 2: mean if you look into USAID, they're that group that
31:39
Speaker 2: goes into countries and goes, hey, you on top of
31:42
Speaker 2: your government, We'll show you how to do it. Like
31:44
Speaker 2: it might not be with weapons, it might not be
31:47
Speaker 2: through military means, but they spread democracy, is what USA does.
31:52
Speaker 2: They are heavily involved in Venezuela and what has been
31:57
Speaker 2: going on in Venezuela over the past ten to twenty years.
32:00
Speaker 2: But her sister seems like she for sure worked for
32:02
Speaker 2: the CIA.
32:04
Speaker 3: That does seem to be I mean, you know, there's
32:06
Speaker 3: kind of a paper trail as.
32:07
Speaker 2: A psychologist during the mk Ultra years, which I don't like.
32:11
Speaker 1: The sounds of that one bit totally.
32:15
Speaker 3: You know, don't work for the CIA, folks.
32:18
Speaker 2: Because yeah, Ruth was even like, well, I think she
32:20
Speaker 2: was just doing psychological evaluations or something.
32:23
Speaker 1: Like that, and it's like that's the worst thing.
32:26
Speaker 2: That's the worst thing that we know about, at least,
32:29
Speaker 2: like she was the worst kind of CIA if that's
32:31
Speaker 2: what she was doing. Yeah, so yeah, they don't prove
32:34
Speaker 2: directly that Ruth worked for the CIA, but she was
32:37
Speaker 2: super duper CIA adjacent. Also, that island, we didn't even
32:41
Speaker 2: bring that up. I like that Ruth is so dismissive
32:44
Speaker 2: when she's like, oh, I think my brother in law
32:48
Speaker 2: was the director of the CIA or something like that,
32:50
Speaker 2: and it's like, yes, he was, and he also headed
32:55
Speaker 2: up the Warren Commission.
32:57
Speaker 1: Like it's it's not nothing.
33:00
Speaker 2: Like the connections between her and the CIA aren't nothing.
33:03
Speaker 2: And even if she wasn't directly involved, she seems like,
33:06
Speaker 2: given the choice, she's gonna side with the CIA, it
33:10
Speaker 2: matters like this, But.
33:12
Speaker 1: I don't know.
33:13
Speaker 3: I don't know either.
33:15
Speaker 2: Vince Solandria is the guy they talked to at the end.
33:17
Speaker 2: He's a JFK researcher or near the end, and he's
33:21
Speaker 2: the one who points out that if you do think
33:23
Speaker 2: this is a conspiracy theory, it doesn't work without Ruth,
33:26
Speaker 2: because Ruth, like I already mentioned, drives the gun and
33:30
Speaker 2: Marina and all of their belongings from New Orleans to Dallas.
33:35
Speaker 2: And even when they ask about that, she's like, maybe
33:38
Speaker 2: the gun was in the car.
33:41
Speaker 1: She says, like this in the car, Yeah she did.
33:45
Speaker 1: She was like, maybe it isn't good in the car
33:51
Speaker 1: did by the bin.
33:54
Speaker 2: And she also got Lee Harvey Osweald the job at
33:58
Speaker 2: the book depository, which that is an integral part of
34:03
Speaker 2: that assassination obviously.
34:06
Speaker 1: So like if she doesn't do those two things, this
34:08
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. M hmm, I mean it would like some.
34:11
Speaker 2: Other naive Quaker probably would have driven the family from
34:15
Speaker 2: New Orleans to Dallas and got him a job somewhere, right,
34:18
Speaker 2: he knows. What did you think of George de Morinshill?
34:21
Speaker 2: I remember him coming up prominently in the JFK movie, Like, yeah,
34:25
Speaker 2: he's a name. I remembered his name.
34:28
Speaker 3: He's a name I also know from various conspiracy. He's
34:33
Speaker 3: also a character in the Stephen book eleven twenty two
34:36
Speaker 3: sixty three.
34:37
Speaker 1: Oh yes, show was a pretty good book.
34:41
Speaker 3: And yeah, he seems like a creep. Like that's kind
34:46
Speaker 3: of all like what I get.
34:47
Speaker 2: From him, creepy vibes, like a creep and given his background,
34:52
Speaker 2: seems like someone who would not associate with Lee Harvey Oswald,
34:55
Speaker 2: if Lee Harvey Oswald was Communist, that the government was
34:59
Speaker 2: making him out to be right. But we'll never know,
35:03
Speaker 2: because George morenscheld definitely committed suicide and absolutely not murdered
35:08
Speaker 2: by the CIA.
35:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, he shut himself in the back of
35:10
Speaker 3: the head.
35:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, as one with a rifle, as one does. I
35:14
Speaker 2: just think they make an interesting case that maybe he
35:18
Speaker 2: was watching the Oswalds at one point and handed them
35:22
Speaker 2: off to the Pains so the Pains could watch the Oswald's,
35:26
Speaker 2: which again doesn't mean either of them knew what was
35:29
Speaker 2: going to happen next.
35:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely seems like I mean, I don't know
35:34
Speaker 3: about that part, but it does seem like the mournscheldt.
35:38
Speaker 3: He was definitely seemed like he was kind of trying
35:40
Speaker 3: to push Oswald towards extreme action.
35:45
Speaker 2: I found the part where Ruth and one of the
35:48
Speaker 2: pro Ruth talking heads mentioned that, well, Lee Harvey Oswald,
35:53
Speaker 2: the guy says, well, Lee Harvey Oswald, if he was
35:56
Speaker 2: still alive, he'd be mad that people were taking the
35:58
Speaker 2: credit away from him, like he would have been proud
36:00
Speaker 2: of this, right, And Ruth is like, well, he did
36:03
Speaker 2: this because he was a little man and he wanted
36:05
Speaker 2: to feel like a big man and let the.
36:07
Speaker 1: World know what he did.
36:08
Speaker 2: And then they cut to all of these interviews with
36:11
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald after and he's like, no, I didn't
36:13
Speaker 2: shoot the president.
36:16
Speaker 1: Like, of course I'm being set up. Of course I didn't.
36:19
Speaker 2: And it's like, where is all that bravado in confidence
36:23
Speaker 2: that this guy is sure Lee Harvey Oswald would have now,
36:26
Speaker 2: like wouldn't you?
36:27
Speaker 1: In the moments after also be like, fuck, gosh shot JFK.
36:32
Speaker 1: You see that shit? I hit him from a distance? Yeah,
36:35
Speaker 1: up there, dog.
36:37
Speaker 3: Unless you thought you could get away with it.
36:39
Speaker 2: But then that still doesn't speak to the wanting to
36:42
Speaker 2: feel like a big man.
36:44
Speaker 3: He like, uh no, if you killed somebody like you
36:48
Speaker 3: might if you're that guy guy, but.
36:50
Speaker 2: It's not like if you get away with it, that
36:52
Speaker 2: means history says you didn't do it.
36:54
Speaker 1: So like, I don't I think they're wrong. I think
36:56
Speaker 1: they're lying.
36:57
Speaker 2: Like there are people who come forward on Lee Harvey
36:59
Speaker 2: Iaoald's behalf also who are like, yeah, no, he wasn't
37:04
Speaker 2: wasn't really like that at all, right, And I don't know.
37:08
Speaker 2: I just I don't know if the pair I try,
37:10
Speaker 2: Like the writer who brings this up is like, listen,
37:13
Speaker 2: I know Ruth is a good person because she's a
37:16
Speaker 2: Quaker and I'm a Quaker, and it's like, all right again,
37:20
Speaker 2: everyone who's siding with the CIA on this is Quakers.
37:26
Speaker 2: Only the Quakers believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. It
37:30
Speaker 2: is a fringe belief that we should push to the
37:34
Speaker 2: outer edges of the Internet and never bring up again.
37:37
Speaker 2: Let's only focus on the conspiracy theories going forward. These
37:41
Speaker 2: Quakers are dividing America.
37:44
Speaker 3: Of course. Yeah, so the Quakers, they've been a thorn
37:46
Speaker 3: in our side for long enough.
37:48
Speaker 1: With their CIA advocacy, their CI advocacy am them. Yeah,
37:53
Speaker 1: I don't know.
37:53
Speaker 3: I mean, like the thing that I took away from
37:56
Speaker 3: a lot of the Oswald interviews they were in this documentary,
38:01
Speaker 3: was that Jeremy Strong should play Lee Harvey Oswald. Yes,
38:05
Speaker 3: he would be really good at it. He looks exactly
38:10
Speaker 3: like him. There should be like a gritty reboot, like.
38:13
Speaker 1: An Oswald franchise.
38:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, bring him into the do a legacy sequel in
38:19
Speaker 3: the modern day.
38:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, they bring him back to life, but the deal
38:22
Speaker 2: is he has to go back and assassinate legitimately bad
38:26
Speaker 2: figures from the past.
38:29
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, yeah, he actually didn't get killed when he
38:33
Speaker 3: was shot by Jack Ruby. Oh, they kept him alive
38:37
Speaker 3: on ice. They gave him bionic limbs.
38:40
Speaker 1: And.
38:42
Speaker 3: They sent him to assassinate.
38:43
Speaker 1: People keeping Detroit safe.
38:46
Speaker 3: With his fucking rifle.
38:49
Speaker 1: So what did you.
38:50
Speaker 2: Think about the woman who wrote the book about Marina
38:54
Speaker 2: and Lee Harvey Oswalt.
38:55
Speaker 3: She's definitely working for the CIA. That was the That
38:59
Speaker 3: was maybe another thing where like this lady comes on
39:02
Speaker 3: like a like thirty or minutes or so in they
39:05
Speaker 3: start interviewing Priscilla Johnson McMillan your name was, and maybe
39:10
Speaker 3: just contrasting her with Ruth and like she's like so
39:16
Speaker 3: much of her interview is accusing Ruth of being a
39:20
Speaker 3: CIA agent, and I'm like, this lady one hundred percent
39:24
Speaker 3: works for the CIA.
39:25
Speaker 1: I buy that way.
39:27
Speaker 3: More like, they're like, didn't you apply to work for
39:30
Speaker 3: the State Department.
39:32
Speaker 1: She's like, maybe I did, Maybe I did it.
39:35
Speaker 2: No, No, she applied to work right for the CIA.
39:39
Speaker 2: She worked for the State threat.
39:41
Speaker 3: I knew it was. I knew she worked for what? Yeah? Yeah,
39:43
Speaker 3: I'm like, come on, man.
39:45
Speaker 2: They confront her with that, with the evidence that she
39:48
Speaker 2: applied to work for the CIA, and with a CIA
39:51
Speaker 2: document that describes her as a wedding collaborator.
39:55
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and.
39:56
Speaker 3: She's like, what an unwitning? Doesn't that mean that I
39:59
Speaker 3: didn't know? He's like, no, it says witting.
40:04
Speaker 2: And it also there is a quote in that report
40:07
Speaker 2: that says, I think we can get her to write
40:09
Speaker 2: pretty much whatever art we want.
40:12
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, uh. I will say, first of all, I
40:16
Speaker 3: have never heard the phrase witding being used that way,
40:21
Speaker 3: like I've only ever heard unwitting.
40:23
Speaker 1: I think I have.
40:24
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm sure it must be because there's unwitting
40:27
Speaker 3: is the is like the more common phrase, and it's
40:30
Speaker 3: clearly the unversion. I've just never heard it seems kind
40:33
Speaker 3: of out of date. It's a you know, from a
40:36
Speaker 3: document from the sixties, so it makes sense. But this
40:39
Speaker 3: lady absolutely, every like just every CIA alarm in my
40:44
Speaker 3: body was going off with this lady.
40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's it comes up in the CIA and the
40:50
Speaker 2: cult of intelligence that the CIA one of their one
40:53
Speaker 2: of their things is whenever a defector gets back to
40:57
Speaker 2: this country, they immediately intervene to try and be the
41:00
Speaker 2: ones who helped get that book published because they want
41:04
Speaker 2: to have some control over how the story of this
41:08
Speaker 2: adversary nation operates. And a lot of times those books
41:12
Speaker 2: are just straight up propaganda and lies. And there is
41:17
Speaker 2: a fascinating article from nineteen seventy eight on Rolling Stone.
41:24
Speaker 2: If you google the CIA in the media, there is
41:26
Speaker 2: an article by Carl Bernstein from the Watergate affair, among
41:31
Speaker 2: other things, about a CIA operation called Project Mockingbird, which,
41:37
Speaker 2: as the name implies, was the CIA going out to
41:41
Speaker 2: as many publications and institutions as they could and trying
41:47
Speaker 2: to recruit people within those publications who would write things
41:51
Speaker 2: that were deferential to the CIA or would write things
41:54
Speaker 2: that they wanted written. It's one of the ways when
41:58
Speaker 2: we finally do that. Gary Webb episodes that I've been teasing.
42:02
Speaker 2: That's one of the ways they put that story down. Yeah,
42:06
Speaker 2: Like they eventually released documents that just straight up said, well,
42:09
Speaker 2: we had relationships with a lot of journalists. They got
42:12
Speaker 2: one major news outlet to just not.
42:14
Speaker 1: Cover it at all.
42:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, so there's no reason to think they've stopped doing it.
42:19
Speaker 2: But at this time, like when this happened, the CIA
42:22
Speaker 2: was very much trying to recruit writers and journalists to
42:27
Speaker 2: tell stories the way they wanted them told. So, yeah,
42:29
Speaker 2: if you've read this book, I'm sorry, but you were duped.
42:32
Speaker 2: I mean, the CIA wrote this book. Yeah, and she
42:36
Speaker 2: just seems like the kind of woman who'd be like
42:39
Speaker 2: I just want to help, like yeah, and it's like
42:42
Speaker 2: she seems like she's too dumb to do anything else.
42:46
Speaker 3: Like that's the thing. All of the things that like
42:48
Speaker 3: again the the random like weird comments and stuff that
42:53
Speaker 3: they would show from like YouTube videos of Ruth Paine,
42:56
Speaker 3: all of like the ways that they would describe her
42:58
Speaker 3: like looking like she's lying, Like that's this lady. This
43:02
Speaker 3: this lady. That is what I get from her so hard.
43:07
Speaker 3: So I don't understand someone believing her and not believing necessarily,
43:12
Speaker 3: But you know, I don't know, but she uh, definitely
43:16
Speaker 3: seems like she's hiding shit. She's just yeah, she does
43:20
Speaker 3: that little well I don't know. Well, yeah, I know
43:23
Speaker 3: about that.
43:25
Speaker 2: The stuff about Ruth and Michael Payne hanging out on
43:30
Speaker 2: Nashon Island with Alan Dulles the summer before the assassination.
43:36
Speaker 1: Like, that's not nothing.
43:38
Speaker 2: Alan Dulles was the head of the CIA at the time,
43:41
Speaker 2: which is one of the outfits suspected of assassinating JFK.
43:46
Speaker 2: He was one of the leads on the Warren Commission,
43:49
Speaker 2: and Ruth Payne was one of the lead witnesses on
43:52
Speaker 2: the Warren Commission. She has interviewed so much by the
43:56
Speaker 2: Warren Commission. Like, that's suspicious. I mean, obviously there is
44:00
Speaker 2: some way that could be a coincidence, but yeah, like
44:04
Speaker 2: that's that's an uncomfortable connection between Lee Harvey Oswald and
44:07
Speaker 2: Alan Dulles if you ask me, like, that's what one
44:11
Speaker 2: degree of separation right right, it's not enough. You could
44:14
Speaker 2: surveil Alan Dullas's phone with a one hop warrant. Lee
44:18
Speaker 2: Harvey Eilswald I'm supposed to work. And the thing about
44:21
Speaker 2: all these coincidences, I always bring this up the true
44:25
Speaker 2: crime crowd, right, Like you would never accept this many coincidences.
44:30
Speaker 1: If this was a story about a husband whose wife
44:33
Speaker 1: was murdered.
44:34
Speaker 2: Sure, you'd be like, Okay, you did it. There's no
44:37
Speaker 2: way there'd be that many coincidences. But here we're supposed
44:41
Speaker 2: to be like, well, this is right when crackpot conspiracy
44:44
Speaker 2: theory stuff, so these are all coincidences and right, I
44:48
Speaker 2: don't know.
44:48
Speaker 1: I don't know about that.
44:49
Speaker 2: I think they do bring up an interesting point about
44:51
Speaker 2: that too, which is the common dismissal of these theories,
44:56
Speaker 2: at least one of them is always, well, these are
44:58
Speaker 2: just like losers right on the internet in their mom's
45:02
Speaker 2: basement with nothing better to do. Yeah, And it's like,
45:05
Speaker 2: all right, Well, the people who want you to believe
45:07
Speaker 2: the warrant commission is true are all a bunch of
45:10
Speaker 2: right wing fucking warhawks, Like I'm supposed to trust them
45:15
Speaker 2: as being honest in this case, Like they are the
45:18
Speaker 2: ones who had the motive to kill JFK, like if
45:23
Speaker 2: he was Like, they do make a great point when
45:25
Speaker 2: he was assassinated zero troops in Vietnam by sixty seven,
45:29
Speaker 2: five hundred thousand troops in Vietnam, and it comes up
45:34
Speaker 2: in the documentary that he won if he got reelected,
45:37
Speaker 2: was planning to pull out of Vietnam, and two had mentioned, Hey,
45:43
Speaker 2: I think the military might overthrow me. I don't know
45:46
Speaker 2: how much longer I can carry on without the military
45:49
Speaker 2: just overthrowing me.
45:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it seems possible that they might have.
45:53
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know, but they do. I mean like,
45:56
Speaker 3: I feel like, if you're taking a tour of the
45:59
Speaker 3: pain House in twenty twenty, you're kind of loser.
46:05
Speaker 1: Yeah.
46:05
Speaker 2: I thought that was strange. There there were lots of
46:08
Speaker 2: people that British.
46:09
Speaker 3: There were two British people who both were not giving
46:13
Speaker 3: the conspiracy side the best look. I would say, yeah, yeah,
46:18
Speaker 3: that's true.
46:19
Speaker 2: I also thought the uh, the thing where Michael Payne
46:23
Speaker 2: worked for Bell Helicopter, like a major military yeah supplier
46:27
Speaker 2: that would have stood to gain from US launching a
46:31
Speaker 2: whole bunch of wars in the future was interesting. I
46:35
Speaker 2: feel like at the end, they do build a decent
46:37
Speaker 2: case that Ruth Payne was like more involved than she
46:42
Speaker 2: wants to let on. I found all of the stuff
46:45
Speaker 2: about her, like finding these letters that were allegedly from
46:50
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald after the fact, like there's a Soviet
46:53
Speaker 2: embassy letter where she was I think it was she
46:58
Speaker 2: was returning a book to Marina Oswald. And for one
47:02
Speaker 2: thing in the interview, Ruth is like, well, you know
47:05
Speaker 2: how when you take a book back to someone, you
47:08
Speaker 2: open it and flip through the pages to make sure
47:10
Speaker 2: there's nothing in between them. No, don't, I don't know.
47:13
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I don't think I have ever
47:16
Speaker 2: done that in my entire life. But she apparently it
47:20
Speaker 2: is common practice for her, and this one time, as
47:23
Speaker 2: if by magic, this letter from Lee Harvey Oswald to
47:27
Speaker 2: the KGB about this alleged trip to the Soviet embassy
47:34
Speaker 2: in Mexico pops out and this becomes huge evidence in
47:39
Speaker 2: the Warren Commission trials. But this is also the subject
47:44
Speaker 2: of that phone call between LBJ and j Edgar Hoover
47:48
Speaker 2: that somehow the audio disappeared, but we still have a
47:51
Speaker 2: transcript of it, and Jay Edgar Hoover just straight up says, well,
47:55
Speaker 2: we looked into that, and we have video and pictures
47:58
Speaker 2: of the person at the Soviet embassy in Mexico and
48:01
Speaker 2: it is not Lee Harvey Oswald. He's not the same person.
48:05
Speaker 2: Which where did that letter come from if that was
48:08
Speaker 2: not Lee Harvey Oswald at that embassy, and who wrote
48:11
Speaker 2: the letter, why did they write it.
48:13
Speaker 1: And how the fuck did Ruth Payne get her pause
48:16
Speaker 1: on it.
48:16
Speaker 2: It's one of two suspicious notes that Ruth Payne comes
48:21
Speaker 2: up with after the fact that end up supporting the
48:24
Speaker 2: government's Yeah, which I don't like that. I don't like
48:28
Speaker 2: the phone call after the assassination, which she says it
48:32
Speaker 2: didn't happen, but her phone calls were being monitored, which
48:35
Speaker 2: why why was the government monitoring her phone calls before
48:39
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald did this? But Michael calls her from
48:43
Speaker 2: work and is like, yo, I think Lee Harvey Oswald
48:46
Speaker 2: might have just killed president. And this was an hour
48:51
Speaker 2: before they had announced that Lee Harvey Oswald was the killer.
48:56
Speaker 2: And he says in this phone call that he thinks
48:58
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald did it, but he doesn't think Lee
49:01
Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald was responsible, right, and then he says, you
49:04
Speaker 2: know who was responsible? Which sucks up with that. That's weird, Yeah,
49:08
Speaker 2: very weird it is. And the thing is like Ruth
49:13
Speaker 2: is there to be asked about all this, and she
49:15
Speaker 2: just laughs. She laughs at every single question and It's like, lady,
49:20
Speaker 2: this isn't that funny, Like people are showing you decent
49:24
Speaker 2: evidence that you were more involved than just happening to
49:29
Speaker 2: live in this house with Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald,
49:32
Speaker 2: and at every step her only response is to laugh. Yeah,
49:37
Speaker 2: she seems nervous, like she seems like she's never really
49:42
Speaker 2: been I don't think she was expecting these questions.
49:46
Speaker 3: I guess at the end, when he was getting more pointed,
49:50
Speaker 3: that's when I saw her be more angry or nervous
49:54
Speaker 3: or whatever. But I definitely didn't get the sins that
49:57
Speaker 3: she had never been asked these questions before. It seemed like,
50:00
Speaker 3: if anything, she had been asked them a bunch of
50:03
Speaker 3: times and had answers ready.
50:07
Speaker 1: Well, she does.
50:07
Speaker 2: Say at one point that the conspiracy theorists never come
50:11
Speaker 2: ask her questions.
50:12
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but I'm talking about like, you know, we
50:16
Speaker 3: see multiple TV interviews and these things over the years
50:21
Speaker 3: where she's being asked the same questions and responding with
50:25
Speaker 3: very like almost the exact same responses.
50:28
Speaker 2: So, oh, so the letter, I'm wrong, the letter she found.
50:33
Speaker 2: Ruth Payne says she walked past Lee Harvey oswhile typing
50:37
Speaker 2: a letter and that when she walked past, he hunched
50:40
Speaker 2: over it to make sure she couldn't see it. Yeah,
50:43
Speaker 2: But then she also says he left that letter on
50:46
Speaker 2: her nightstand.
50:48
Speaker 1: What why, why would you do that?
50:50
Speaker 2: And it turns out that was the Mexican Embassy letter
50:53
Speaker 2: or the Soviet Right Embassy in Mexico letter.
50:55
Speaker 3: Yeah, the book one was the General.
50:58
Speaker 2: The one is a note that Lee Harvey Oswald is
51:04
Speaker 2: alleged to have written to his wife saying that he
51:09
Speaker 2: shot at this general, a guy named General Edwin Walker
51:14
Speaker 2: in Dallas, a few weeks before the JFK shooting. And
51:19
Speaker 2: this is the note that she walks this book back
51:23
Speaker 2: to Marina and goes, well, let's do the standard thing
51:26
Speaker 2: now and make sure there's no money in here. And
51:29
Speaker 2: this note conveniently pops out. One guy claims the Secret
51:33
Speaker 2: Service tried to give it back to her and said
51:35
Speaker 2: it was hers and claimed it was a forgery. Like
51:39
Speaker 2: so much of the incriminating evidence against Lee Harvey Oswald
51:43
Speaker 2: comes from Ruth Payne. And I mean some of that
51:47
Speaker 2: could have to do with him living there, but also
51:50
Speaker 2: he lived there for I think she says, five weeks
51:53
Speaker 2: and was mostly there on the weekends, like it doesn't
51:56
Speaker 2: add up, like there had to be people that knew
51:59
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey, I well better than this.
52:02
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know though, like you know, if you're
52:05
Speaker 3: a guy, I don't know.
52:07
Speaker 1: I don't like the detail.
52:08
Speaker 2: Here's this is another reason the CIA might target Quakers
52:12
Speaker 2: is apparently the Quakers at least at the time, had
52:15
Speaker 2: a cultural exchange program with Russia. So Ruth Payne would
52:19
Speaker 2: travel to Russia a lot as a teen, and we
52:23
Speaker 2: know that's a thing the CIA does. They will if
52:26
Speaker 2: you're traveling to another country where they want information a
52:29
Speaker 2: lot of times they will intervene and be like, hey,
52:33
Speaker 2: how about you look around for us while you're there.
52:36
Speaker 2: So that seems like an obvious place where she could
52:38
Speaker 2: have made CIA connections.
52:41
Speaker 1: What did you think of Sue Wheaton?
52:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, this was interesting. I don't know. I don't know
52:45
Speaker 3: what I thought of her. She's not in it enough
52:47
Speaker 3: for me to have like a clear idea of her
52:50
Speaker 3: as a person.
52:51
Speaker 2: Sue Wheaton is a peace activist who was working with
52:56
Speaker 2: the Sandinistas in the nineteen eighties. She was at this
53:02
Speaker 2: meeting for the Sandinistas and Ruth Payne, of all people,
53:06
Speaker 2: shows up with a photographer, which I think again, could
53:12
Speaker 2: maybe speak to that thing where she's alleged to have
53:17
Speaker 2: been spying on leftists, because it does seem very strange
53:21
Speaker 2: that Ruth Payne showed up at a Sandinista meeting with
53:24
Speaker 2: a photographer in Nicaragua in the eighties and this woman
53:28
Speaker 2: was like, wait, wait, Ruth Payne, who knew Lee Harvey Oswald?
53:33
Speaker 3: And that was the part where I was like, though,
53:36
Speaker 3: how did this lady though know what Ruth Payne looked like.
53:39
Speaker 3: It's something she was like the most well known figure
53:42
Speaker 3: from the.
53:43
Speaker 1: Well but Ruth Paine introduced herself as Ruth Payne, right.
53:47
Speaker 3: But regardless, just the name.
53:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, But like if you've like even in the documentary,
53:53
Speaker 2: Ruth Payne was a very visible figure after the assassination,
53:56
Speaker 2: Like they interviewed her a bunch. She's a big witness
53:59
Speaker 2: in the Warren Commission. So it would have probably crossed
54:04
Speaker 2: this woman's desk at some point that Ruth pain might
54:07
Speaker 2: have been some sort of government plant. And then imagine
54:12
Speaker 2: having that in the back of your mind, and then
54:14
Speaker 2: Ruth Payne shows up to your San Denista meeting in
54:18
Speaker 2: Nicaragua with a photographer. Of course she was like, get
54:22
Speaker 2: the fuck out of here you're CIA, So.
54:28
Speaker 1: That was weird. Yeah.
54:29
Speaker 2: The other thing about her spying on leftists that I
54:32
Speaker 2: found interesting was all the stuff about the files where
54:36
Speaker 2: they are alleged to have removed a bunch of file
54:39
Speaker 2: cabinets from Ruth Pain's home that conspiracy theorists claim is
54:44
Speaker 2: evidence of her spying on leftists, and that's why Lee
54:47
Speaker 2: Harvey Oswald was in her home. The CIA tasked her
54:50
Speaker 2: with keeping an eye on leftists, she says, that is
54:54
Speaker 2: fiddlesticks or whatever word she used. But also all of
54:59
Speaker 2: her tests stimony about those file cabinets and the contents
55:04
Speaker 2: of the file cabinets themselves were taken off the record
55:08
Speaker 2: in the Warren Commission. They did that because there was
55:11
Speaker 2: nothing in them.
55:11
Speaker 3: Probably not, Yeah, no, she definitely did it. Yeah, so
55:16
Speaker 3: it seems like a good hang.
55:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean again, I bet lots of sea.
55:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta be you gotta be charming, like it's
55:24
Speaker 2: like hosting a TV show kind of, you gotta have
55:26
Speaker 2: some panache. But yeah, I don't know the rest of
55:30
Speaker 2: the stuff I have in the notes we already talked about.
55:32
Speaker 2: It's mostly the witting collaborator thing. That is a fun scene.
55:38
Speaker 2: It says unwitting collaborator.
55:40
Speaker 1: No, ma'am.
55:40
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, that's the thing, like I don't know about Ruth.
55:47
Speaker 3: I don't I you know, maybe I'm blinded by my
55:51
Speaker 3: love for Brassy Dames. But Briscilla Johnson McMillan definitely.
55:56
Speaker 4: And you know, she's there saying that Ruth is a
56:00
Speaker 4: CIA agent, and she's very much obviously a sub sort
56:05
Speaker 4: of agent of some kind.
56:07
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know.
56:08
Speaker 3: That's not nothing either, Like that kind of feels like someone's.
56:12
Speaker 2: Pushing Yeah, I don't know why the CIA would accuse
56:15
Speaker 2: Ruth of being CIA.
56:17
Speaker 1: I don't know that that helps that many.
56:19
Speaker 3: I don't know either.
56:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's an interesting documentary. I think people should watch it.
56:23
Speaker 2: You have to rent it for right now. I'm sure
56:24
Speaker 2: it'll be on streaming in like six weeks.
56:27
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be on some like Amazon Channel.
56:30
Speaker 1: But it's also cheap.
56:31
Speaker 2: It's two ninety nine, it's not like it's not like
56:34
Speaker 2: a in theaters now rental.
56:36
Speaker 3: No, no, no, So you know, watching balls, Yeah, sure,
56:40
Speaker 3: what I would say.
56:42
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those theories like it doesn't matter anymore,
56:45
Speaker 2: Like I mean, I guess it could if somehow Ruth
56:49
Speaker 2: Payne was charged with something after all these years, But
56:51
Speaker 2: that's not gonna fucking happen.
56:53
Speaker 3: That's definitely not gonna happen.
56:54
Speaker 1: Absolutely no way.
56:56
Speaker 3: But also like again, like there's never gonna you know,
57:01
Speaker 3: we're just we're not going to have a definitive story here.
57:05
Speaker 3: It's too it's too long. It's been too long. Yeah,
57:09
Speaker 3: but I don't I don't know, Like, yeah, I don't
57:12
Speaker 3: think it really, you know, the I just don't know
57:15
Speaker 3: that Matter's just been so many things that have happened
57:17
Speaker 3: in the meantime. We don't know for sure what like
57:22
Speaker 3: what future was stolen from us? I guess, And even then,
57:25
Speaker 3: what are we going to do about it? Yeah, so yeah,
57:29
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's a weird thing. You know, a
57:32
Speaker 3: guy got killed. They showed the they showed the Zapruder
57:35
Speaker 3: film in this which it's always bums me out to watch.
57:38
Speaker 3: I hate watching the Subpruder film. It's so sad because
57:42
Speaker 3: you see Jackie like chasing after his brain's on the
57:45
Speaker 3: back of the card, and it's just like, oh, that's
57:48
Speaker 3: very sad. That's just like on a like human level,
57:53
Speaker 3: hits you kind of very grim. Yeah, it's still is.
57:57
Speaker 3: It's like a lot of this historical footage that's like
58:01
Speaker 3: kind of mythic. It still has that power. Like, yes,
58:06
Speaker 3: I feel the same way about like the Hindenburg broadcasts,
58:10
Speaker 3: like the yeah you know the broadcaster's voice on that
58:14
Speaker 3: is so heartbreaking and this, uh that footage. I don't
58:19
Speaker 3: like it. I don't like I don't like the JFK
58:22
Speaker 3: got shot. I want to be on the red.
58:24
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan.
58:25
Speaker 3: I think that was bad either.
58:26
Speaker 2: One thing to take heart when it comes to the Hindenburg.
58:29
Speaker 2: We covered this when I worked for Cracked. It's one
58:32
Speaker 2: of those tragedies where way fewer people died than.
58:34
Speaker 1: You would exist.
58:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think people assume everyone on the Hindenburg died.
58:39
Speaker 2: But it was falling so slow, right like in those
58:42
Speaker 2: famous pictures. If you are watching a high enough quality
58:45
Speaker 2: version and look at the bottom of the screen, there's
58:48
Speaker 2: people streaming out of that fucking thing. Yes, yeah, so
58:50
Speaker 2: like it's not it wasn't. I mean it was a
58:52
Speaker 2: huge tragedy.
58:53
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean exactly.
58:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't Pearl Harbor.
58:58
Speaker 3: No, it was like a Pearl Harbor and of it.
59:00
Speaker 3: I just I'm just saying, like these things that we
59:03
Speaker 3: have video, like first hand video of and or audio
59:07
Speaker 3: and also in that case, like it's just these you know,
59:11
Speaker 3: you'd think that they would lose their power after a
59:13
Speaker 3: certain amount of time, and they kind of haven't, like
59:15
Speaker 3: those pre film still hits. It's like the first time
59:20
Speaker 3: they mentioned my least favorite attempt at scientifically debunking the
59:24
Speaker 3: Kennedy assassination, which is that his head snaps in the
59:29
Speaker 3: opposite direction that you would intuitively think his head would snap.
59:32
Speaker 3: But that's been like, that's that's how like ejecta and
59:36
Speaker 3: wound like that works. It propels your head away from
59:40
Speaker 3: the like towards the gunshot.
59:42
Speaker 2: So yeah, and it also kind of points to the
59:46
Speaker 2: secret service theory. Yeah, because JFK has hit with two
59:49
Speaker 2: bullets and his head responds two different ways, right, which
59:53
Speaker 2: isn't usually.
59:53
Speaker 1: What bullets do. But that's a whole other conspiracy much.
59:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a one that I have an easier time
1:00:02
Speaker 3: swallowing than a lot of them.
1:00:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, then a lot of Yeah, I don't have
1:00:06
Speaker 2: a problem swallowing this one.
1:00:09
Speaker 1: Like I know people work for the CIA.
1:00:13
Speaker 2: But on our next episode, as I promised, on our
1:00:18
Speaker 2: next free episode, we're going to be talking about Gary Webb. Yeah, which, uh,
1:00:27
Speaker 2: that is someone who was never once called a conspiracy theorist,
1:00:32
Speaker 2: which is a very interesting note when you look into
1:00:36
Speaker 2: the things he reported on, which is the CIA selling
1:00:39
Speaker 2: crack is the United States, And we're going to talk
1:00:43
Speaker 2: about that, but we're going to focus a lot on
1:00:45
Speaker 2: the media response to that, which I think is the
1:00:49
Speaker 2: bigger conspiracy theory all these years later. Like everyone fucking
1:00:53
Speaker 2: knows the CIA helped traffic cocaine.
1:00:56
Speaker 1: In the United States.
1:00:57
Speaker 2: That's really like they're teaching that in kindergarten and textbooks.
1:01:01
Speaker 2: Now they don't have textbooks in kindergarten.
1:01:03
Speaker 3: They don't know, but they are teaching it in kinderm
1:01:06
Speaker 3: just not in the text.
1:01:09
Speaker 1: Yeah.
1:01:09
Speaker 3: No, I mean that is that's a CIA conspiracy that
1:01:12
Speaker 3: I have no problem believing. Yeah, but yeah, you know
1:01:17
Speaker 3: that that'll be we might do two on that one.
1:01:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we'll do two.
1:01:21
Speaker 2: Might even might even slip in a bonus episode where
1:01:24
Speaker 2: we covered the Jeremy Renner film Kill the Messenger, which
1:01:28
Speaker 2: I watched last night.
1:01:30
Speaker 1: It's good.
1:01:31
Speaker 2: Sure, it reminds me of the Elvis movie in that
1:01:35
Speaker 2: there was just too much for them to cover in
1:01:37
Speaker 2: the span of one movie. Yeah, so it feels a
1:01:41
Speaker 2: bit like a Wikipedia entry.
1:01:43
Speaker 3: Now, I'm just kind of imagining though an Iran Contra
1:01:48
Speaker 3: movie directed by boz Lerrman.
1:01:51
Speaker 1: I would Yeah, I want that.
1:01:53
Speaker 3: I might be kind of good.
1:01:55
Speaker 1: Soundtrack for the modern sound and durand songs.
1:02:00
Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, or I want I just want Elvis
1:02:03
Speaker 2: and you'ran contrary.
1:02:04
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I mean even as a movie star.
1:02:07
Speaker 2: So yeah, you got that to look forward to on
1:02:11
Speaker 2: our next free episode. This is a bonus episode, so uh.
1:02:15
Speaker 2: I normally wouldn't have anything to plug, but this week
1:02:20
Speaker 2: on the Unpop's Patreon, the very first episode of our
1:02:24
Speaker 2: Lost Rewatch podcast. Finally we had to change the name,
1:02:31
Speaker 2: but now it.
1:02:32
Speaker 1: Is officially called going Back.
1:02:34
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm sure in the episode we refer to it
1:02:38
Speaker 3: by a different.
1:02:39
Speaker 1: Time holler the original name.
1:02:42
Speaker 2: At the top of my lungs, I thought, so, I
1:02:45
Speaker 2: thought that's just going to be beeped out and replaced
1:02:47
Speaker 2: with a robot. It first episode of that will be
1:02:54
Speaker 2: that'll be available on the un pops Patreon for now
1:02:58
Speaker 2: and as a bonus episode on the Conspiracy Pod. But
1:03:01
Speaker 2: once we're through with first season, we're gonna start putting
1:03:03
Speaker 2: them out for free. But you loving princes and princesses
1:03:08
Speaker 2: who subscribe.
1:03:09
Speaker 1: You get it all early.
1:03:11
Speaker 3: Woo ooh, you're so lucky. It's good. It was fun.
1:03:14
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed that. All right, I'm looking forward to
1:03:17
Speaker 3: binging that show.
1:03:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lost Rules.
1:03:20
Speaker 3: It's good, good show.
1:03:22
Speaker 1: So check that out. That will be up Thursday. So
1:03:29
Speaker 1: there's that. Do we have anything else to plug? You
1:03:31
Speaker 1: got anything to plug? No?
1:03:32
Speaker 3: That that's it.
1:03:34
Speaker 1: Oh.
1:03:35
Speaker 2: Also, I'm doing a live Unpopular Opinion podcast in New
1:03:38
Speaker 2: York City August twenty eighth at caveat NYC four pm.
1:03:43
Speaker 1: Come see us, then go do other shit later that night.
1:03:46
Speaker 1: Total a night of it.
1:03:48
Speaker 2: It'll be me, comedian and four time Jeopardy champion Alex Schmidt,
1:03:52
Speaker 2: nice music producer and my Pod six co host Sliceberg,
1:03:57
Speaker 2: Slim who has appeared on this podcast, and comedian Kalise
1:04:00
Speaker 2: Hawkins will all be on the lineup. Tickets are available
1:04:04
Speaker 2: at the caveat NYC website or check out the on
1:04:08
Speaker 2: pops Twitter and you can find links there. So come
1:04:11
Speaker 2: to that, come come see me in person. Well, come
1:04:16
Speaker 2: come ask me about all the conspiracy theories I can't
1:04:18
Speaker 2: talk about on the podcasts.
1:04:21
Speaker 1: No, don't.
1:04:22
Speaker 2: I'm just in the n essay to show up and
1:04:25
Speaker 2: be like, hey, one of the other conspiracies you want
1:04:27
Speaker 2: to talk about our past?
1:04:29
Speaker 1: Never mind, don't ask me ship right.
1:04:32
Speaker 3: No, just smoke them up.
1:04:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, just bring weed. Uh. I think that's it.
1:04:38
Speaker 2: Let's get out of here, Olivia say goodbye, bye, goodbye everybody.
1:04:42
Speaker 1: We love you. Above about