Latest / The Game Business Show / The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and GTA 6: The video game industry’s Barbenheimer moment

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The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and GTA 6: The video game industry’s Barbenheimer moment · The Game Business Show

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: This week it's Zelda versus GTA.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Is this the industry's Bob and Hyman moment?
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Plus we chat trends, Jeff's new foundation and Ubisoft joins us to discuss their player council.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to The Game Business Show.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This week's edition is sponsored by Keyword Studios.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: Of course Keywords is that organisation that does everything
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_02: to help game developers make their games,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_02: launch them and promote them,
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: and then make sure they keep growing and are successful afterwards.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: They say they're supercharged by technology,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: they specialise in being great partners and have 13,000 people across 26 countries,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: they're a big global player.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: When it comes to sort of the marketing side of things and keeping players engaged,
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: they're focused on helping studios understand their audience more clearly
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: and building a stronger relationship with them.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: From player support,
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: trust and safety to community insight and engagement strategy,
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Keyword Studios helps teams respond to player needs with more relevance,
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: care and impact.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: You can find out more on the Keyword Studios website or via the links in
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: the newsletter attached with this very show.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of this very show, let's do it, shall we?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: This time next week, I'm going to be in Tokyo.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Tokyo Game Show is my first trip to Japan.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I am a bit nervous,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm also quite excited,
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: mainly to understand one of the world's oldest video game industries,
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: which has gone through its own peaks and troughs,
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: but continues to And this week it was Nintendo's turn who delivered a double bill,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: one entirely focused on The Legend of Zelda and the other one
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, on paper, the Zelda Direct sounded pretty similar to the Sony showcase.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: There was a Lego model,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: special edition controller,
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: a movie reveal,
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: if you can call it a movie reveal,
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: and a lengthy deep dive into a remake of a game we all played 30 years ago.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: And yet, for reasons I cannot describe, it was more exciting than Nintendo One was.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: It just was.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_02: Admittedly, says the guy with a Zelda Ocarina of Time poster on his wall.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway...
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: In this week's edition, I give a bit of analysis on that Zelda Direct in particular.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: And Ubisoft, they're coming on the show to talk about its new player council.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also going to touch upon trends.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And my business partner, Jeff Keighley, has launched something new.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to talk about that as well.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: So let's go.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: Let's though talk about Zelda.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So it turns out there is one game that dares come out in the same month as Grand Theft Auto 6.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: This week,
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: Nintendo announced that The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time Remake will be launching
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: on November 5th.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: It is a full two weeks before GTA arrives, but it's still within the danger zone.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's certainly a release date that most game publishers will be avoiding.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Nintendo though,
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: they play by its own rules,
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: and Zelda is a distinctive title that arrives on a platform that GTA isn't on,
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: or isn't gone yet anyway.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now bear with me,
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: because this might require some arguing,
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: but could this be the console industry's Barbenheimer moment?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: That might sound like a ridiculous thing to say,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: after all, Ocarina of Time is just a remake, right?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: Surely that can't be discussed in the same breath as the sequel to
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: the world's most successful video game, a sequel we've waited 13 years to play.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Of course not,
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: Ocarina of Time isn't going to be as big as GTA 6,
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: but it's still a significant title.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_02: The nostalgia for this one is immensely strong.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: It is, after all, the proclaimed greatest game of all time, one of the icons of the N64 era.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: But this isn't all about attracting the people that played the game 30 years ago,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: it's also about an entirely new audience.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now if you look at some of the more successful remakes in recent times,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: like the Resident Evil remakes, these games have managed to attract a new audience.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: The Resident Evil 2 and Resident Evil 4 remakes outsold their originals.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: There is an audience of people who have heard about these games,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: but they're frankly,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: the games are just too old,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: they're too antiquated for people to properly play and enjoy today.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Now Zelda is a very different franchise today to the one that existed in 1998.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: In fact it's a very different franchise to the one that existed in 2016.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: 2017's Breath of the Wild took Zelda to a height it had never before reached.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Before Breath of the Wild a Zelda game would be fortunate to break 5 million copies
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: to be honest.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: The highest selling one was 2006's Twilight Princess.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: It sold just below 9 million copies and that was a launch title for the Wii
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: which obviously was a sensation.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: Breath of the Wild is now on 34 million sales.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: Its sequel, which is 2023's Tears of the Kingdom, is approaching 23 million.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: Now Zelda always had the reputation as one of the industry greats.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's an icon.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Nintendo fans love it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: But now it has the commercial clout to go with it.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's bring those two things together.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: Significant franchise growth combined with one of the IP's most beloved entries.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: And you've got a potentially tasty recipe here.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: The early numbers backed that up.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: Outside of Grand Theft Auto 6,
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: no other game has attracted as much trailer views and press attention
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: as this Ocarina of Time remake.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was a clear winner during Summer Game Fest season of trailer reveals.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if you just look, I've got some early data from the Nintendo Direct on Tuesday.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: According to Level Up,
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: 2.1 million people was watching this trailer, watching the video during its peak.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: To give you some ideas of what that looks like,
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: the GTA 6 reveal on YouTube, so it doesn't include Netflix, managed 4.1 million.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: The PlayStation State of Play the week before,
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: which featured the new Final Fantasy VII game, peaked up 1 million views.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: Gamescom opening night live peaked at 2 million.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: This Zelda Direct has done more than opening night live,
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: done more than the PlayStation State of Play by double more than
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: the PlayStation State of Play.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: The Summer Game Fest opening event was 2.2 million.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it's in line with what Summer Game Fest event did.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: Peak viewership for the Mario Kart World Nintendo Direct was the last,
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: you know, the last major Nintendo release for Switch 2.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: 930,000 in April 2025.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So this was big numbers.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: The trailer itself, at the time of me recording this, was on 55 million views.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Over the same period, so basically a day, GTA 6 extended look was on 80 million.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: I say GTA 6 on another level.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Mario Kart world gameplay overview was 5 million.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: Final Fantasy 7 Revelation release date trailer was 3.7 million.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: These are just benchmarks.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's not a criticism on the Mario Kart World trailer or the Final Fantasy trailer.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is purely to point out that this game is very, very big.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: The hype is real.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's important to note,
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: however,
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: that Ocarina of Time is not like Breath of the Wild or Tears of the Kingdom.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a far more linear, structured Zelda game.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's not one of those titles where you can simply go anywhere and do anything in any order.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: I would argue Zelda's always been open world, but there's degrees of open
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: world here.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: More modern Zelda fans might not find Ocarina of Time quite as appealing.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Nintendo has released games in what we call the more traditional Zelda style
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: since Breath of the World came out.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: There's been a HD remaster of Skyward Sword,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: that's the Wii game that came out initially in 2011,
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: a remake of a 1993 Game Boy game,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Link's Awakening,
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: and an early,
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: sorry, and there was an entirely new game in 2024 called Echoes of Wisdom.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: These are more in the old school Zelda style.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: All three games sold reasonably well,
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: between four and six million copies,
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: but nothing particularly significant, certainly nothing Breath of the Wild level.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: However, I'd argue none of these games have the appeal of Ocarina of Time.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Skyward Sword is,
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: it is just a remaster of actual and the weaker Zelda games,
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: and by the way, Zelda games are always great, so it's not saying much.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_02: Link's Awakening and Echoes of Wisdom are 2D Zelda games, sort of in the chibi style.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit less mainstream.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: They're simply not as mass market.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, How big Ocarina of Time becomes is going to come down to Nintendo itself.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: How much of Nintendo's Christmas marketing power will it put behind Ocarina of Time?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: And there are some messaging challenges.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I found it somewhat entertaining in this week's video when Nintendo revealed
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_02: that Link can now jump.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that players can now move the camera around the character.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: You couldn't do that in 1998.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: If anyone that played the game then,
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: which was around seven, eight million people, you go, oh yeah, that's new.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: But both are entirely standard features in modern video games.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: I can't imagine as many 15-year-olds going, what, I can jump?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Quick, quick.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: But here's my pre-order.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_02: I certainly don't remember the GTA 6 Netflix reveal talking about the ability to move a camera.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Nevertheless,
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: It was fascinating how even with the initial teaser back in June,
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: Nintendo is very much presenting this to an audience that hadn't played Ocarina
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: of Time before.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's very much introducing the idea of this game,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: the story and Navi and the boy without a fairy and all that kind of thing.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: This is a game as much for new fans who might have come in via Breath of the Wild
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: or perhaps will come in with the upcoming movie as it is for existing users.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: I fully expect Nintendo to heavily push this game,
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: much in the same way that PlayStation and Xbox are really putting their weight
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: behind GTA 6.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: The console market is clearly in a tough spot right now.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sales are falling and prices are rising.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: We talk about it every week.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: But the solution to troubled times in the video game industry is
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_02: to release interesting and exciting video games.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: I know I sound like a broken record, but it's true.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: And in November,
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: within just two weeks of each other,
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_02: we've got two very different,
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: very powerful and very exciting video games coming out that are generating a lot
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: of hype and a lot of excitement.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: I, for one, cannot wait.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, before we move on to our interviews and some more news,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: I did want to bring up something that came out of this week's Here's the Dring.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you don't know what Here's the Dring is, it's basically an opinion piece that I write.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: I do it every week, every Monday.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's often reacting news from the last week, but not always.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: It used to be called The Game Business Micro,
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: but I didn't think it really sold what it was about.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: It is only for paid subscribers.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: We don't have a huge number of paid subscribers,
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: so I know most people here will not have listened to it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: We do most of our episodes for free.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do pay to get The Game Business, you would have received this on Monday morning.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now this week's one has sort of had a bit of a reaction to it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: So it's sort of,
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: and it was all around my attempt to counter some of the narratives that are going on
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: in video games at the moment.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't just mean the negative narratives we're hearing about.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: The crash 2.0 for the video games industry and everything collapsing.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm talking about some of the trends that have been going on in video games.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: So for instance,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: The decline of the American video game development scene and the rise of China.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now everyone's moving to China or Southeast Asia in general.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And also conversations about hey consoles don't work anymore
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: or Western AAA video games don't work anymore.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: We can get hung up on trends.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we can think this is the direction of travel for the industry when reality is
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: the industry works in cycles and it can be really hard to tell what
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_02: the overall trend really is.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, there's been a few pieces lately.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've read a bunch of LinkedIn posts.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: There's a YouTube video I watched on the death of live service games.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: Rob Fahey wrote a really good piece on games industry,
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: making his predictions about the video game industry.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: And actually,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of his predictions I really agree with and he certainly hits on many of
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: the big topics.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing with trends is that they're rarely permanent.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: They often switch and you need to dive deeper
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: into understanding what's truly happening and whether it's actually likely
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: to continue.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, let's look at the big one, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: So Amir Savant,
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: who does all those of analysis on On where the industry's heading and where
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: the layoffs are happening and all the things going on in the video games industry.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: He was at Gamescom and he revealed that over two further layoffs over
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_02: the last five years, according to his tracker, has occurred in North America.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: In total, 25,000 roles have been lost around into 15% of the workforce in the US.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, we did cover this last year on our Game Business show,
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: but the data is still saying the same thing.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: Other regions, meanwhile, have seen gains.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Asia Pacific saw the number of available jobs increase by 10%,
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: driven by 12% growth in China specifically.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: The number of roles in Europe, meanwhile, has basically stayed flat.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: It varies by country within Europe, by the way.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: The UK is down a bit.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: France is down a bit.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: France is slightly impacted by Ubisoft.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: The UK, partially due to the likes of Sony moving out of it.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, that's just it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: When you dive into these markets,
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: is it an overall trend or is it actually a big player moved out of it
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_02: or something shifted or something changed?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: There was a big failure.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: What's caused this?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: What are governments doing?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: What are they saying?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: What are trade bodies saying?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_02: What is the output looking like?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can see that when you get down to those, the topics are actually a lot more nuanced.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: The UK, for instance,
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: it has a lot,
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: the size of the UK games industry in terms of employees has dropped slightly.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: But That isn't really the headline for the UK video game industry this year,
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: at least it shouldn't be.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: The headline should be Forza Horizon 6,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: Star Wars Galactic Racer,
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Silent Hill Downfall,
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Lego Batman Legacy of the Dark Knight,
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: War Dogs,
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Grand Theft Auto 6,
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: 007 First Light,
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: expand the remit a little bit and you've got Battlefield 6 and
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: then you've got Fables coming out next February.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually a very strong period for British made video games.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the strongest periods I can remember.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's incredible.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of top quality titles are either coming to market or have just come to market.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: And what impact is that going to have down the line?
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: When UK studios are putting out so many massive games in big, big franchises.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: There is challenges in the UK market, absolutely.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Almost all those games I listed are American owned or Tencent owned or whatever.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: But there's no denying The UK scene is putting out some big games right now,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: and that's a good thing.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: It excites governments, it encourages investment, it encourages support.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: In France,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: President Emmanuel Macron has just announced that they're going to launch
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: a major cultural festival to celebrate video games.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And this obviously comes from the back of Clay Obscure Expedition 33,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: which had done extremely well from last year.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Focus is doing extremely well.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: They're just on Clutch.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: We had Maverick who we're making Clutch on this week.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's no doubt costs are putting pressure on the US industry right now,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: and that will put pressure on local governments to develop solutions that might make
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: the area more attractive again, if that's what they want to do.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: So you have to think about that.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: When is that going to come in?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: We've been here before.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you go back 15 years,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: there was a whole 20 years maybe,
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: you got the whole brain drain to Canada when Canada offered the tax relief
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: and everyone started to move their employment to Canada.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the case quite so much anymore.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now China is clearly the place where lots of investment is going in the video games.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: We saw that during Gamescom.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was a significant moment.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: It felt like a moment.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: Gamescom was awash with titles coming out of China and Korea and a lot of Southeast Asia.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: It was a very exciting time for that area of the industry, working those markets.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: It was a moment.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: But did you watch Opening Night Live,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: which was the Gamescom pre-event thing that Geoff Keighley hosted?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: I have to say, a lot of the games looked pretty similar.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: Not all of them.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: There was a handful that stood out.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: But there was a lot of very samey looking games.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: This is the problem.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: When investment flows in and people start seeing success from certain types of games
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: and genres, everyone chases the same thing.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: The industry does have a notorious habit of seeing a blinking red light and
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_02: then being like a cat and going, we've got to go get it.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_02: What happens if many of these Chinese games somehow don't deliver success because
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: the markets become oversaturated?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: What happens in that situation?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Will we start seeing a scale back?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: In China, these things all happen in cycles.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: They just do.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: Things ebb and things flow.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: To be clear,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not suggesting that China's suddenly not going to become a superpower in
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: the global video game industry.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: That is clearly happening.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I do think that's suggesting that it's happening in the expense of the West.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it can certainly seem that way right now.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it will seem that way in two or three years.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: It might not.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, it's not just about games being made in China.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's about companies in the West outsourcing development to markets
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: where it's cheaper,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: such as those charities in Southeast Asia, India and China and stuff like that.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's clearly happening as companies try and drive down costs.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: But as we've spoken to a few studios lately, not everyone is doing it.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't make sense for everybody.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mentioned earlier, we had Maverick Games on this week.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: You should check it out.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a really, really fun interview.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Mike and Harinder were very candid.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, they actually said they don't do too much outsourcing
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: because they find it slows them down.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the outsourcing they do, they do tend to work with people who are nearer to them.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: We've seen companies like, you know, Harvey Smith.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: He's the former Arkane Studios boss,
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: he opened a new studio called Black Pony Immersive,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: we had them on the show, and he made a point of the fact that his team are American.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: UK developer Fused Games,
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: which are making Star Wars Galactic Racer,
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: they made a point that all their outsource partners are British.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes they're doing it for cultural reasons,
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes it's because of time zones,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: and sometimes it's because it's people that they trust,
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: or simply because they want to make sure they have the right talent,
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: not just the cheapest talent.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever the reason they may be,
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: outsourcing to other markets isn't something everybody's doing,
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: and it's not going to work for every studio,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: and in fact, you know, many studios are actually pushing against it.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: The things with trends, it's not always wise to follow them.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And not everyone does.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now people are talking right now about the death of the console industry,
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: and there's no doubt the console market is extremely challenged,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: but also I'm wary of even saying that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: We've been here before,
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: PC industry was dying 20 years ago,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_02: the handheld games market was on its knees until the Switch arrived and changed all
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: that.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: The reality is new products and new games can change momentum behind a trend in a moment.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: As we've talked about earlier about Zelda and GTA 6,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: maybe the console trend will be reversed come November.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: It might be a bit premature to suggest that, but it's certainly possible.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: All I will caution is these things you read on LinkedIn,
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: these opinions that you're reading there or these articles that you're getting and
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: that proclaim the future direction of the business.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Just do what I do and read it and go, yeah,
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: but question it,
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: poke holes in it,
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: ask if this is a temporary trend or a permanent direction of travel,
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: because often you find it isn't.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now, before we move on to our interview,
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I do want to bring up one news story that you might have read on Gamefile this week.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: So our friend Stephen Tortillo,
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: a regular guest on the show,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: he did an interview with, well,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: the co-founder of The Game Business,
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Jeff Keighley, and Mark Cerny, the architect behind multiple PlayStation consoles.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, both of them have announced a new thing called the Nova Games Foundation.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not related to the Game Awards.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's not related to PlayStation.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's entirely a Jeff Keighley and Mark Cerny thing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's an unaffiliated standalone philanthropic Philanthropic project is
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: a university-backed fellowship program intended to offer six-figure grants
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: to 20 young game designers every year, and hopefully for decades to come.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's the goal.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's no-strings-attached funding where they get mentorship
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: from game industry leaders,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: a combination intended to aid the development of groundbreaking new video games.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: That is what Jeff and Mark are hoping to achieve.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: Nova will be collecting applications from 13 affiliate programs at universities
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: across eight countries.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: This includes the New York University,
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: University of South Carolina,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: alongside the Abertay University in Scotland,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: which is one of the big development universities in this country.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_02: And there's also a university in France, Germany, Australia as well.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be $100,000 per recipient with about a quarter of Nova Fellows
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: that can also then claim half a million dollars for projects
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: that are shaping up particularly well.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Payments will be delivered based on development milestones and recipients will own their games.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: Nova will help promote the world.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: The developers will be free to pursue the publishers and platforms of their choice,
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: and Nova will indeed help make publishing introductions too.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking to Gamefile, Mr.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Keeley mentioned how he's never felt it appropriate to commercially invest
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: in video games given his position.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: He said, I've never owned stock in a game company or taken financial stake in a game.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: Nova is philanthropy.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: We aren't taking equity or looking to recoup the grants.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: The return we're hoping for is creative, helping new voices make games and find their footing.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: Mark and I each made multi-million dollar donations to establish the foundation
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: and we intend to keep contributing.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: We hope others will join us.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Those others include Hazelight Bosquette, Joseph Farris, who has also backed the fund.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Mark Zerney also told Gamefile,
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: The industry has changed immeasurably since I started in games in 1982.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_02: These graduates have talent,
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: training and tools that outclass what we had back in the day by
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: an astonishing amount,
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: but they face a tough road ahead getting traction in the industry
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: and many could benefit from our support.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: We want to be there to give it to them.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very good.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think you've probably had enough of my voice.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: To be honest, you're probably bored of it.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So let's get some different voices on the show, shall we?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: During Gamescom, Ubisoft announced that it was soft launching the Player Council.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's a platform where players can sort of test their games
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: and give feedback directly to developers, you know.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Other publishers do this.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: EA does it and Xbox does it as well.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_02: The Player Council is run by Ubisoft Connecting Games Together
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: and it lets players basically test early concepts and prototypes as well as updates
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: to existing games.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: There are four games that are in the Player Council now.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: One is Riders Republic, which you might have heard of.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's existed for a while.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a live service sports game.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: The other is Atomega.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now that's interesting because it's a game from 2017.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: They didn't really do anything.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's sort of been faded into the background.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, developer Ubisoft Reflections has sort of returned to it and it's in this player council.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a few other things that are in there.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's an online multiplayer game called Codename Splitpoint and
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: a single player strategy game called Codename Rook,
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: which players can now go in and test if they want to be part of this council.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: The interesting thing about this is that as they test things,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: as they give feedback,
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: the players can sort of level up and get more access to deeper and earlier
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: and bigger projects.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's the only way it's a fun thing to gamers do,
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: although you could argue that they're ultimately working for Ubisoft for free.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: But this is Ubisoft's way of trying to get games in front of players earlier to get
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: that important feedback.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, talking about the initiative and what the thinking behind it is and
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: where it all came from,
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: I spoke to Vi Alexander,
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: who is the Director of the Player Council,
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: and Arnold Fremont, who is the Associate Director of Community at Gamescom.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: And here is that interview.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hello, welcome to the show.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's lovely to have you on.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is really, really interesting.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_03: You've sort of gamified the player feedback process.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: Let's start with the beginning.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: Where did this start?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Where did this come from?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, getting player feedback has been something that's always been important for Ubisoft.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: We have user research in other departments, and we do alphas and betas, et cetera.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that our teams have been asking for,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: to be able to get even closer and bring players in even earlier in the process
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: than they have in the past.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so we thought, how can we help them?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: How can we put something together that brings the devs and the players
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: into one place to have a two-way conversation and talk about the best ideas to make
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: the games as great as they can be?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Player Council was born.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously you do play a feedback before, you've been doing it for years and years and years.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: One of the things you mentioned there, getting them in earlier, what's different this time?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: What's new about this that you just weren't doing before?
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea is really to have a complementary approach.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Continue to do Close Beta, Close Alpha, Test, etc.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: Continue to listen to everything that players are saying on Discord, forums, etc.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that here we want to make sure that there is a dedicated platform to allow
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: the dialogue between the players and the dev teams and build the trust.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because here, we're gonna take risk, basically.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna provide games that are live,
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: so like Act Omega and Riders Republic in the console,
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: but also prototypes that don't even have a name,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: that are still very, very early, and more to come.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really the big difference, but it's a complementary approach, not really a new thing.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's important to keep in mind that As mentioned by Vai,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's all the dev team that are part of this program are fully voluntary
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: and are asking for this feedback.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: So they are looking forward to it.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: Is there not a risk of it spoiling something that you might have,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: you know, brewing and exciting?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, surprise is all part of the video game industry.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think the players who are going to be drawn to the player council are the type
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: who want to know,
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: who want to be involved,
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: who want to have their voice heard during the development process.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they're less concerned about spoilers and more interested in helping collaborate
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: on a great game.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's free to join.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody can join if they want to, as long as they're 18 older.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I think when people self-select into Sticking around,
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: contributing to game after game, giving feedback.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to find themselves part of a community and having a lot of fun doing that.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And making the games great so that when it goes out to the broader audience,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: people who weren't interested in being part of the process,
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: that the game is something that everybody can be proud of,
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: everybody can be happy about.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the production team will be able to decide also when they want to join the player console.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be at any stage of their life cycle.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: So at the very beginning, or it can be later, etc.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So some games that can be my narrative And we've seen it in Ubisoft,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: in the industry, with the early access, etc.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You often give a bit the first campaign,
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: the first part of the chapter, and then people will discover the rest.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: But with a very solid gameplay, because this is what we want to achieve with our players.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: Is it just games or is features like maybe could the players council test maybe
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: a feature of something that might end up in a I don't know an assassin's creed
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: or something down the line but it's it's they don't won't necessarily know
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: that it's like a test
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is a new tool for our dev teams to be able to use when
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: and how they need to.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a place to incubate new ideas.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So some of the projects that show up on
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: the player council are not ultimately destined for a launch.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: We might get a certain way through it and go like, okay, great, we've learned a lot.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's time to put that on the shelf and move on to the next great thing
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: with what we've learned.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I see.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And teams are definitely going to experiment.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not going to You will probably see a lot of games that are in
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: the earlier phases cycle in and out where you'll see that games that are reaching
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: the later phases are going to kind of continue with the momentum with the feedback
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: that they're getting from the players and the excitement of the dev team.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it will depend on the project what exactly happens and it's up to the dev teams
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: at the company to decide if it's right for them.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm kind of excited to see Atomega sort of,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not entirely sure that's how you pronounce it,
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: but it's a sort of,
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: because it's Ubisoft Reflections,
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_03: it's the Grow Home team and all that kind of stuff.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_03: I covered all of that back in the day, not being too far from me, but is that just to test this?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: What's the story
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: behind that?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: You mean an Atomega specifically?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: So Atomega is a very interesting case because indeed we released the game in... 2017?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so the team has been working on other projects for a while,
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: etc., but it was always in the back of their mind.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so recently they were able to see that the community was still active,
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: still playing games,
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: proposing ideas,
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: etc., etc., and so they wanted to resume this adventure with the players.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And they already started in July,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: where they started their test down,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: introducing new quality of life improvements, et cetera, et cetera.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: And now they are officially joining the player council to go to the next step
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of player feedback.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: This might be a really
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: silly question,
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: or even might be a question that's impossible to answer,
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: but what does good feedback look like?
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a silly question at all.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: good feedback is going to be something that Resonates with the other players
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: that are part of those play tests and playing that game alongside you.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And also about something that resonates with the game team.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Since it's a collaboration, it's a two-way discussion about what's right for the game.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: The dev team has its vision and its intentions,
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: and they share that through the game that they're making.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Players will play that,
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: come to their own conclusions about how successful that is,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: how much they like it, how much they're enjoying it.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: And what's great about the way that we've built the Player Council is
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: that it's powered by games together.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so people can come into the community platform, post an idea.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Other players can upvote that idea.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's something that is resonating well, then more players are going to upvote that idea.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to add their own contributions and maybe add more detail to that idea.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then the devs are going to see,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: oh, this is a really important feature or concept to the community.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Let's understand what it is that the intention is really behind that.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: it may not be that the dev team does exactly what the idea is
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: because they're professionals,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: they're experts in the game and the vision that they're trying to achieve.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: So they'll take the intention of what the community is saying,
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: turn it into, you know, new gameplay.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Make a new build,
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: let them play it and get feedback and the whole process starts all over again.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: Correct me if I'm wrong,
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: but I imagine gamers and the player council,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: how much they do and how much they contribute and how much they feedback is sort
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: of up to them in many ways.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: But how do you reward them for helping you make hit games?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: We acknowledge the contributions that they're making.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: When they're making things that are effective,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: that are actionable,
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: that is resonating with the dev teams and the players, we want to acknowledge that.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll be doing that through a tier system so
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: when they make these contributions they'll increase to a higher tier.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that new tier can unlock more access to more confidential projects,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: to earlier prototypes,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: to spaces where they're able to have even deeper discussions
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: or see additional elements of the game-making process.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so we reward them with access.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: When they say, hey, I want to contribute, we acknowledge it and let them do it more.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm fascinated.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: What sort of people use who do these sort of things?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Is it like maybe people that aspire to be game developers themselves?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there is no real specific target on our side.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's really all people that want to contribute,
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: that want to be part also People will be able to also select their preference
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: in terms of games, genres, etc.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: etc.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see a lot of people that are interested about the backscenes,
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: how is game development happening,
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: how do we make decisions, why do we do this, not that, etc.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: So people that already care maybe about a franchise,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: about brand, about Ubisoft at large, or are just excited about the next big thing.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: Is the goal that like most games, all games, end up sort of going through the player council?
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's always going to be a decision for each game.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's going to be right for some teams,
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: not right for other teams,
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: depending on the phase that they're in and the goals that they have
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: for their project.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that we see more as the platform continues to evolve.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's a new tool that is available to all of our teams.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: So if they want to use it, it's here for them.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that what we're seeing from our dev teams is an appetite for I guess,
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned it earlier,
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: there is always this friction,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: I always think,
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_03: between listening to the players and getting their feedback and reacting to it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: But obviously there's still an art form, right?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: And it's still an artistic vision.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Feedback is a very, it's a big word in the English language that can mean a lot of things.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And what is important for us is that indeed people will share feedback.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because they want new things.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: They want, for example, more of the same, new features, or completely something else.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: But there is never a right or wrong feedback.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: For example,
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: on Riders Republic,
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: you may be interested in a specific brand of skis,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: or you may be interested in a specific toy or whatever.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: But your opinion is as good as the opinion of everybody else.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we would just want to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to share their voice.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: And with the platform,
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: we will elevate those voices and help the team prioritize and make decisions.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_03: I know feedback isn't a new thing, but it does seem to be this sequence has come in the norm.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going back a few years now when EA announced Skate and almost from
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: the very moment they could have anything remotely playable,
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: they put it in front of people and said, right, tell us what you think.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Nintendo did it last year with that test I have no idea anything about.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_03: How would you like to see this develop in the future?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Where would you, where do you hope this is going to go?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is the kind of platform that really brings together two of my passions.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've been making games for a long time, and I've been a gamer for even longer.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And this is bringing together those two sides into one thing.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I hope is that we continue to build deeper relationships
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: with our players as developers and that our players feel heard,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: that they feel listened to,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: that the games that are being made are the ones that excite them,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: the ones that interest them and They feel are worth their time.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think when we invite players in to the foundational moments and to
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: the entire process,
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: then we're going to be surprised, we're going to grow, we're going to learn.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that dialogue between the devs and the players is going to Create
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: a shared respect and a shared sense of ownership that I think will just pave the way
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: to even better games and happier developers who feel like they're really hitting
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: the mark because developers are artists.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: They want to make something that people like and players want to play something that they like.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: I always wonder,
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: some people take feedback better than others, but that's a different skill entirely.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_03: I'm out of time, but thank you so much.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited for it.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited to see Atomega come back as well.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, thank you so much.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we hope that players are able to find something that interests them and join
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: the community.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you to Vi and Arnold there for joining us.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: All that's left me to do now is run through the big stories from the last week,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: and we've actually had quite a large number of stories,
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: including one that only just broke really, Xbox,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: has swooped in to save Kojima Productions' Metal Gear Solid successor, Physint.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: The game was being funded by PlayStation,
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: it was a PlayStation Studios game,
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_02: but Sony said it would be cancelling the project in mid-June apparently.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now Kojima said that he was determined to keep the project alive and sought
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: a new partner, eventually finding Xbox.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Xbox is publishing another Kojima Productions game,
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: the Horror Game OD,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: which is sort of a successor to what he was trying to do with Silent Hill
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: before Konami parted ways with him.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: PlayStation's been a big supporter of Hideo Kojima's development studio ever
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: since he left Konami.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: They helped set their offices,
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: they signed his game Death Stranding and its sequel Death Stranding 2 on the beach.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: They weren't the most commercially successful of video games but I...
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of is why you sign Kojima.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Kojima's your art house director.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: He's the credibility player.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: You've got your big Marvel game for the fans and you have the sort
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: of art house David Lynch-like Kojima on the side.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Honestly, big PR win there for Xbox.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sony's having a summer to forget really on that front.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Sticking with platform holders, because it's been the week Nintendo held its direct video.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about Zelda Direct earlier,
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: but they also held another one where they showed off a load of games.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: I actually thought it was quite good.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_02: It was missing a heavy hitter.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, these are just the games that are coming out of the six to nine months.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: These aren't necessarily all the games.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, they're not all the games.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: Pokemon Winds and Waves, some of the big games Nintendo have next year.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't in it,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Xenoblade Genesis,
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: which isn't the biggest game in the world, but that wasn't in there either.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: What was in there was a lot of games.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: For starters,
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: there were some big third-party titles,
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: Monster Hunter Wilds, Monster Hunter's huge on Nintendo, so that's quite a big one.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: Capcom also showed Resident Evil 2,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: There were three and four remakes coming to Nintendo Switch in October.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: There were two Persona games, Final Fantasy 7 Revelations was in there.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: So lots of, lots of games for the sort of Japanese audience.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: And there was also the surprise launch of Mecha Chameleon which is out now
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: and that's the hide and seek indie game which is currently
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: the best selling video game of the year.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of Nintendo's own first party games there were sort of two big announcements.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's a 2D Metroid game called Metroid Ravenous.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's big for me.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: I love that game.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: I love 2D Metroid games.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: They're not going to sell massive numbers, but, you know, they've got an audience.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: And the other one is Kirby and the World Beyond,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: which seems to be a sort of open-world-ish Kirby game.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the last Kirby platform title that only came out a few years ago was actually
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: a big hit, sold nearly 8 million copies.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's...
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's a growing franchise there.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: Nintendo also showed updates on Mario Kart World,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Pikmin 4,
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: Star Fox has a new trailer for
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: the Fire Emblem game they've got coming out next week.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: There was more from Switch Sports Resort which is coming out in October.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Zelda wasn't in this direct because it was in the one that they did the day before.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: They also showed a new horror IP from Bloober Team called Onyx The Dark Grip.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm calling this out because it gave me Eternal Darkness vibes and I'm a big GameCube fan.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan of that niche horror game from 2003.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I thought it was a solid direct.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: Lots of games, quantity more than quality, but there's some good stuff in there as well.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: Keyword Studios.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't a sponsored message, this is just a news story about Keyword Studios.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_02: They've brought together seven of its creative agencies
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: into one organisation called Free Animal.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_02: The new agency brings together Gina,
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Itchy, KWM, Maverick, Trailer Farm, Big Pharma and Fire Without Smoke.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: These are sort of marketing groups.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_02: Clients will continue to work with the same people but they can now plug into a sort
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: of wider global network and if they need certain expertise they can tap
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: into each other.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: It makes sense, it makes sense on paper.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_02: I received a newsletter this week, which I thought was really interesting.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's from Music EXP, who are sort of a music and gaming newsletter.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And they looked at the engagement figures for every track and artist featured in
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: the Netflix Grand Theft Auto 6 review.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought this was interesting.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: The newsletter found that artists featured in
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: the trailer saw monthly Spotify listeners grow 670% week on week.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: And tracks featured in the trailer saw week on week growth of 9,177% in Spotify streams.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: the percentages don't really know very much,
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_02: but I have to say,
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: the impact of the music in Grand Theft Auto is really interesting.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: You should check out the newsletter.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Couple of other stories.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Lego Digital Play has acquired Off-Road Games.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's a UK mobile developer formed by Space Ape Games employees.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_02: No financial details were disclosed.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_02: Frontier has seen adjusted operating profit jump 62%, that's not the UK team, to £21.4 million.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's for its 2026 financial year, the highest in the company history, actually.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: Very well done.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: The results are due to strong sales in the Jurassic World Evolution,
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Planet Coast and Planet Zoo franchises,
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: alongside increased tax credits and expenditure credits.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: The studio has also designed a deal with Disney to create a game featuring its IP,
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: which is almost certainly going to be a Disney World sort
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: of rollercoaster tycoons type game.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited about that.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: We've got some sales numbers here.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: Mint Rockets Adventure RPG Day The Diver has now hit 10 million copies.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's obviously been a bit smash hit indie game.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_02: Indie-ish game.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: Not going to get into that debate again.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: The first big games of September have sold well as well.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: Onimusha Way of the Sword from Capcom has sold 1 million copies in a single day,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: while Rebel Wolves' The Blood of the Dawnwalker has sold 1 million copies
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: in two days.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Not so good news now.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: A Steam maintenance bug has led to the achievement list of a number of unreleased
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: and in some cases unannounced games becoming visible on sites
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: that collect Steam achievement information via an API.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's some interesting titles been leaked there.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit of a shame because I imagine they were going to feature
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: in some announcement events coming up.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: Seven employees of FutureLab have been very redundant.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is following the cancellation of an unannounced project that was in pre-production.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: The project was unrelated to the PowerWash Simulator IP,
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_02: which is where the company makes most of its money.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: More bad news here.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_02: Life is Strange developer Dontnod has warned that it may not be able to continue
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: beyond the end of January 2027 unless it secures further external financing.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Gross cash has fallen from $17.9 million at the end of last year to $9.3 million by
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: the end of July.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: So they're burning through cash very fast.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And these are some stories from the week before that we didn't get to.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: Xbox is going to introduce monthly cloud gaming limits for Game Pass subscribers from November.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: Game Pass Essential will be limited to 5 hours of streaming time every month,
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: premium to 10 hours and ultimate to 15 hours.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Subscribers can then purchase additional hours once the time is up.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: Xbox says this is going to affect 4% of Game Pass subscribers and
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: the decision is due to the rising cost of cloud gaming as more players use it
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: for longer.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_02: Going back to PlayStation, they had a State of Play event last week.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was okay, I thought.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: Again, it didn't go down in a storm,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: but it looked like the Nintendo Direct didn't really, but it was solid.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: It announced limited edition DualSense controllers at time with GTA 6,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: alongside a date for Final Fantasy VII Revelation, which is out April 8th, 2027.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: It also announced Until Dawn with 2, which is out January 28th.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_02: The game is actually being helped made by AdHoc,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: the developer behind Dispatch, alongside the UK team that's working on it.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: Elsewhere during the state of play,
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: a Lego PlayStation reveal,
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Double Fine,
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: that's the old Xbox Studios Shadow
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: Drop Keeper on PS5,
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: and there was new content for Saros,
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: Ghost of Yotai, Monster Hunter Wilds and Crimson Desert.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there was a few new IP there too,
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: PS5 exclusive folk horror game called Hunter's Moon,
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: that seemed interesting,
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_02: and a new Konami title set in 1920s New York named Rhapsody in Scarlet.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_02: And finally,
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: the White House has launched Arcade.gov,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: a website of browser games built around Donald Trump's immigration policies.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: It used all sorts of iconography and music from popular video games and featured
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: a logo based on the classic Sega design.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: It also did a Zelda thing to tap into the Zelda stuff.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the White House is doing quite a lot to sort of tap into video games.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: I suspect game companies are going to be too terrified to tell them to stop.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: But that's it from me today.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: That's all the news we've got.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_02: We will be back next week, of course.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: We might have four editions for you next week.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Don't want to promise it just in case something falls through,
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_02: but it should be a busy week,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: including interviews with the Rainbow Six team,
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_02: PlayStack, plus a deep dive into the Japanese video game scene.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: To make sure you don't miss any of it,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: head on over to thegamebusiness.com,
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: stick in your email address,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: and I'll send you an email the moment a new episode goes live.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: But until then, thank you for tuning in.