Latest / The You Project / #1089 The Doctor Who Prescribes Cuddling - Dr. Marc Cohen

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#1089 The Doctor Who Prescribes Cuddling - Dr. Marc Cohen · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a team. It's Harps and tiff and the
0:02
Speaker 1: good doc who will intro in a moment. Tiffany and
0:04
Speaker 1: Cook over there at typ Central just killing it. She's
0:08
Speaker 1: training for a mystery something that will all be revealed eventually,
0:12
Speaker 1: but she's training like a mofo at the moment. We
0:15
Speaker 1: don't want to say too much, but how is the
0:17
Speaker 1: training going. I'm loving at Harps. I'm like, do you
0:20
Speaker 1: know how funny it is to work with you for
0:22
Speaker 1: this long? And still we're a bit starstruck that I
0:25
Speaker 1: got to train with Craig Anthony half of this week
0:28
Speaker 1: Craig style. Well, I definitely don't be starstruck because I'm
0:33
Speaker 1: just an old dickhead that you.
0:35
Speaker 2: Tell you what the Harp's novelty never wears off. It
0:39
Speaker 2: never wears off. You'd think it might.
0:40
Speaker 1: Well, I think I've trained you twice in your life,
0:43
Speaker 1: and I trained you on the So Tif's doing a thing.
0:46
Speaker 1: We can't say what it is at the moment. Well
0:48
Speaker 1: we can, but I told her I don't want it
0:49
Speaker 1: to and I will be revealed why. But I'm overseeing
0:53
Speaker 1: her training at the moment, and it's fair to say
0:54
Speaker 1: that it's not easy and It's fair to say that
0:58
Speaker 1: you literally sent me a suggest they saying I fucking
1:01
Speaker 1: hate you, which was quite hurtful, I thought, especially seeing
1:05
Speaker 1: as I'm doing it for nothing. I'm an only child.
1:08
Speaker 1: I'm but insecure. A couple of pats on the back
1:10
Speaker 1: wouldn't go Australia.
1:12
Speaker 2: I wasn't even playing that app Eitherhaps they were true emotions. Anyway,
1:16
Speaker 2: keep training.
1:18
Speaker 1: Professor Mark Cohen, Doctor Mark Cohen, Mark Cohen, welcome to you,
1:24
Speaker 1: just bloody Marco, Welcome to the show, sir, great, thanks
1:29
Speaker 1: to really happy to be here. What do you think
1:34
Speaker 1: about the relationship between Tiff and I Doe. There's a
1:37
Speaker 1: bit of passive aggressive stuff going on, she kind of
1:41
Speaker 1: it seems like.
1:41
Speaker 2: Your old buddies. Yeah, but then that that trainer sort
1:46
Speaker 2: of coach and an athlete relationship has gotten strained.
1:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we it's being a You probably don't know this,
1:58
Speaker 1: but my arguably, I was first trainer in Australia. So
2:01
Speaker 1: I started training people. I was one of the first
2:03
Speaker 1: Anyway personal trainers, and then I set up Australia's first
2:06
Speaker 1: PT center and so I spent decades literally training people,
2:09
Speaker 1: working with teams and athletes. So that coaching people vibe
2:13
Speaker 1: and energy I step into very easily, and it doesn't
2:19
Speaker 1: you know, there are some people who go really well
2:21
Speaker 1: with it, but then there are other people who really
2:23
Speaker 1: need a little bit of molly coddling, which is not
2:26
Speaker 1: really my style, so it doesn't always work well.
2:30
Speaker 2: There's different approaches in molly colleen or slapping around all that.
2:35
Speaker 1: Anyway, enough about my bullshit, give us the you know what,
2:38
Speaker 1: your buio was so long, you've done so much stuff.
2:41
Speaker 1: Rather than me read the two hour kind of thing
2:44
Speaker 1: I have in front of me, would you be so
2:46
Speaker 1: gracious as to tell my audience as long or as
2:49
Speaker 1: briefly as you want mark who you are and what
2:51
Speaker 1: you do.
2:52
Speaker 2: Sure, I'll try and keep it brief. So I'm just
2:55
Speaker 2: a human being trying to work out how to have
2:57
Speaker 2: a fun, happy life. And I've spent thirty eight years
3:00
Speaker 2: at university studying wellness to try and find out how
3:04
Speaker 2: I can have a fun and happy life. So I
3:06
Speaker 2: did Western medicine, I did Chinese medicine, I did psychology,
3:09
Speaker 2: I did electrical computer systems engineering. I spent half of
3:13
Speaker 2: my medical career. I've had a thirty year integrated medicine
3:16
Speaker 2: career so I was head of the Integrated Medicine Association
3:19
Speaker 2: and very involved in natural medicine. But it has been
3:22
Speaker 2: half that time as a professor at r MIT, where
3:24
Speaker 2: I created wellness as a discipline. I had a whole
3:26
Speaker 2: bunch of PhD students who have studied things like well,
3:30
Speaker 2: you know from Lauren Burns, who a lead athlete, you know,
3:33
Speaker 2: lead athlete performance, but also you know saunas and ice
3:36
Speaker 2: bathing and health retreats and organic food and yoga and
3:40
Speaker 2: meditation and massage, basically all the fun stuff that's really
3:44
Speaker 2: fun for me. But it's got no money behind it,
3:46
Speaker 2: no research but no research funds, no big pharmaceutical industry
3:49
Speaker 2: behind it. But it was fantastic for me to learn
3:52
Speaker 2: about for myself. You know, herbal medicine. I've written big
3:55
Speaker 2: textbooks on herbal medicine that every natural path has studied
3:58
Speaker 2: out of the last twenty years. First textbook on the
4:00
Speaker 2: SPA industry. I still don't know what I want to
4:03
Speaker 2: do when to grow up that I quit my job
4:08
Speaker 2: as a p for a full time tenured professor end
4:11
Speaker 2: of twenty eighteen. And you know, after you finished unit,
4:14
Speaker 2: you take a gap year, so I took a gap
4:16
Speaker 2: year twenty nineteen and outled the world and ran some retreats.
4:19
Speaker 2: I'm very involved with I love bathing in hot water,
4:23
Speaker 2: so I'm very involved with the spa industry and the
4:25
Speaker 2: hot spring industry. I'm part owner of a hot spring
4:28
Speaker 2: in New Zealand and now I've just been made medical
4:30
Speaker 2: director of the Peninsula Hot Spring Group, which is a
4:32
Speaker 2: big hot spring here in Victoria. But they've got five
4:35
Speaker 2: hot springs now. We're opening up one in Canna Malla
4:37
Speaker 2: outback Queensland. We've got one in me Tongue, We've got
4:39
Speaker 2: one in New Zealand. We're opening one in Phillip Island.
4:42
Speaker 2: So I work a lot with the wellness industry. I'll
4:46
Speaker 2: publish a heap of research, more than one hundred research
4:49
Speaker 2: papers and textbooks. And lately I've been writing a lot
4:54
Speaker 2: of poetry, condensing a whole lot of medical wisdom into
4:56
Speaker 2: very condensed poems. I've written a couple of children's books
4:59
Speaker 2: which aren't really for children, but they're amazingly illustrated books,
5:02
Speaker 2: but they're very deep consciousness raising messages. So I have
5:06
Speaker 2: fun by creating connection. I mean they say the currency
5:11
Speaker 2: of wellness is connection. Yeah. I love connecting with people,
5:15
Speaker 2: making ancient wisdom or event signs sort of understandable to
5:19
Speaker 2: the mainstream. And I'm a sort of an entrepreneur lately,
5:22
Speaker 2: So I'm an accidental entrepreneur. Really. In the first lockdown,
5:26
Speaker 2: I created a kombucha company that makes probiotics infused with
5:30
Speaker 2: herbs based on all my herbal knowledge. I have a
5:33
Speaker 2: water filtered company that makes the whole house filters that
5:36
Speaker 2: have clean water because there wasn't any filters I could
5:38
Speaker 2: recommend to patients. I still do a very little bit
5:41
Speaker 2: of medical practice, like half the day a week online
5:44
Speaker 2: advocate of medical cannabis. But I'm still trying to work
5:48
Speaker 2: out what I'm going to do when I grow up.
5:51
Speaker 2: I don't know how.
5:52
Speaker 1: I don't know how you could possibly squeeze all that in.
5:55
Speaker 2: But what a bloody interesting life.
5:57
Speaker 1: So when I think about what lies it the intersection
6:00
Speaker 1: of philosophy and psychology and science and spirituality and wellness,
6:07
Speaker 1: it's you. You're in the middle of all of that.
6:10
Speaker 2: Like what I love is being on the edge of
6:13
Speaker 2: disciplines but then combining them. So I credit wellness as
6:16
Speaker 2: an academic discipline, but wellness is not just health science.
6:20
Speaker 2: It's business practices, it's sustainability, it's design, and I really
6:24
Speaker 2: love learning at the and bringing disciplines together. So in
6:27
Speaker 2: integrated medicine, I've always loved bringing natural complementary traditional medicine
6:31
Speaker 2: with conventional medicine, or science and spirituality, or you know,
6:36
Speaker 2: the academic world and the entrepreneurial commercial world. So yeah,
6:39
Speaker 2: I like to be at the interfaith. I mean, there's
6:41
Speaker 2: a permaculture principle that says, the interesting things happen on
6:44
Speaker 2: the edge, and if you're not living on the edge,
6:47
Speaker 2: you're taking up too much space. So I like living
6:49
Speaker 2: on the edge.
6:50
Speaker 1: So the guy who kind of lived in academia but
6:53
Speaker 1: not really, well, you're in it, but you're out of it,
6:55
Speaker 1: and you kept pushing the boundaries and stepping into other
6:57
Speaker 1: places and state other areas and expanding and intersecting with
7:03
Speaker 1: other people doing other things.
7:06
Speaker 2: Was that embraced by.
7:09
Speaker 1: Your fellow academics or was it frowned upon once you
7:12
Speaker 1: started to open all of these doors that weren't particularly scientific.
7:17
Speaker 2: Well, I actually had a pretty good reception, but like
7:21
Speaker 2: I always say, I was standing on the shoulders of giants.
7:24
Speaker 2: So there's a group of doctors who came like the
7:26
Speaker 2: about ten fifteen years older than I am, really fought
7:30
Speaker 2: the medical system that got deregistered. You know, they're always
7:33
Speaker 2: rubbish and doing natural people like Ian gall Or and
7:36
Speaker 2: Ian Bright Hope and Sally and whereas I was still
7:40
Speaker 2: on their shoulder. And because I had a medical degree
7:42
Speaker 2: and a PhD and I always talked about research and
7:44
Speaker 2: evidence space, I was actually quite accepted. So I thought
7:47
Speaker 2: I was the guy on the TV to talk about
7:50
Speaker 2: defending natural medicines when there was a natural medicine, or
7:53
Speaker 2: they'd roll me out at a cardiology conference or rheumatology
7:56
Speaker 2: conference to tea to speak to specialists about natural medicine
7:59
Speaker 2: because I didn't want natural talking to medical specialists. But
8:01
Speaker 2: that have me as a doctor with science and research
8:04
Speaker 2: behind me. So I've actually had a pretty good run.
8:07
Speaker 2: But having said that, I started out I was at
8:09
Speaker 2: Monish University. Well that's where I did my medical degree.
8:12
Speaker 2: But then I spent ten years creating a Center for
8:16
Speaker 2: Complementary Medicine, and I wasn't the university wanted it is
8:19
Speaker 2: because I wanted to create it a credit electives that
8:22
Speaker 2: students loved and that brought money. And then I had
8:25
Speaker 2: honored students, so I sort of created that off my
8:27
Speaker 2: own bat, but I was able to do it whereas
8:31
Speaker 2: other doctor. I mean, I was the first person to
8:32
Speaker 2: teach acupuncture to medical students in Australia, not because the
8:36
Speaker 2: university wanted it, because I thought it was a fun
8:37
Speaker 2: thing to do that it was so I got to
8:40
Speaker 2: do that, and then at r MIT I got this
8:44
Speaker 2: great position to be attended Professor of Complementary Medicine, and
8:49
Speaker 2: I wanted to create wellness as an academic discipline. It's
8:52
Speaker 2: not because the university wanted it. I just wanted to
8:55
Speaker 2: have wellness as a discipline. It was a really good
8:59
Speaker 2: sort of field for me to playing. I've got to
9:01
Speaker 2: interact with all these different professionals and perma culture and
9:04
Speaker 2: yoga and positive psychology and bring all that into a
9:08
Speaker 2: you know, a postgraduate forum. So yeah, I was allowed
9:12
Speaker 2: to do it. It wasn't really because the university wanted it.
9:15
Speaker 2: I did it off my own bat and it was
9:19
Speaker 2: a lot of fun to do. But I've had a
9:20
Speaker 2: really good run because I think I have had a
9:23
Speaker 2: really firm foot in the evidence based conventional medical world,
9:27
Speaker 2: as I'm really firm foot in the you know, the spirituality,
9:30
Speaker 2: natural medicine side, and I didn't really well, I represented
9:36
Speaker 2: both it very well. Both both sides were happy with
9:39
Speaker 2: you know, you know bught I bought value to both sides.
9:42
Speaker 1: So like a lot of people in their career are
9:44
Speaker 1: driven by ticking boxes or you know, status or making
9:48
Speaker 1: lots to do, nothing wrong with any of those things.
9:51
Speaker 1: But but what drives you because it seems like a
9:55
Speaker 1: myriad of things, Well, I mean curiosity, fun.
10:00
Speaker 2: So how do I focus on fun? How can I
10:01
Speaker 2: have the best, most fulfilling, rewarding life and one of
10:06
Speaker 2: the most fun things to do. So that's really been
10:08
Speaker 2: my driving goal since I started into medicine. And I mean,
10:13
Speaker 2: I think I do have this sort of inferiority complex
10:16
Speaker 2: because I mean, who needs two PhDs and a medical
10:18
Speaker 2: degree and honors degree and all these degrees? So I
10:20
Speaker 2: love clicking degrees and credibility because I'm probably very insecure.
10:27
Speaker 2: But really no, I went into medicine originally ninety eighty
10:30
Speaker 2: two because I wanted to have fun. And I think
10:32
Speaker 2: in medicine would teach me about the body and life
10:34
Speaker 2: and death and everything in between, will teach me how
10:36
Speaker 2: I can have the most fun fulfilling life. Not because
10:38
Speaker 2: I wanted to help sick people. So you know, fun
10:41
Speaker 2: has been really the focus. And you know, when I
10:44
Speaker 2: pick my students, I pick students who are got something
10:47
Speaker 2: I'm going to learn from and it's something I'm very
10:50
Speaker 2: interested in. So I've had a really diverse research career
10:55
Speaker 2: and a really diverse student population. Who are you know,
10:58
Speaker 2: PhD students and things, because because I'd follow the fun
11:02
Speaker 2: and funny is always happening at the edge as well.
11:04
Speaker 2: I mean, fun happens at the edge of your capacity. Yeah,
11:08
Speaker 2: if you know what's do and everything has just become
11:09
Speaker 2: boring and we can make money that way, but money
11:12
Speaker 2: has never been my dry. Having fun has, so that's fair.
11:17
Speaker 2: That's my focus.
11:19
Speaker 1: Do you think that a lot of people when it
11:20
Speaker 1: comes to career settle and you know, we find sounds
11:26
Speaker 1: a bit judge. I don't mean it too, but you know,
11:29
Speaker 1: we do a thing and we wake up five years later,
11:31
Speaker 1: we're still doing the thing that doesn't really blow our
11:33
Speaker 1: socks off or fulfill us. But we're in a kind
11:36
Speaker 1: of a groundhog dayanus of operating system. And you know,
11:40
Speaker 1: it ticks a box and it meets the needs. There's
11:42
Speaker 1: not a lot of joy, there's not a lot of learning,
11:44
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of fun. But we've got to
11:46
Speaker 1: have a job, and so this is the job, and
11:49
Speaker 1: then after we've done the job, then we'll try and
11:51
Speaker 1: have some fun.
11:52
Speaker 2: Then. I think that's typical. I think most people are
11:54
Speaker 2: like that because you know, you need security, you need
11:57
Speaker 2: to be able to pay your bills and feed your
11:59
Speaker 2: family and do those things, and you know, you fall
12:03
Speaker 2: into a position that provides that security, and then it
12:06
Speaker 2: becomes really scary to move outside that. And I've had
12:09
Speaker 2: some really edgy times in my career where I was
12:13
Speaker 2: going into the unknown and you know, I didn't have security.
12:15
Speaker 2: I didn't know if it was going to work out,
12:17
Speaker 2: and that was pretty edgy. And I was fortunate that
12:20
Speaker 2: I was in you know, I was able to deal
12:22
Speaker 2: with that in security. But also I thought I had
12:24
Speaker 2: a good backup with my family and my degree. It's
12:27
Speaker 2: going to good always go back into medicine. But I
12:31
Speaker 2: think that's quite typical. And then people have this that's
12:33
Speaker 2: where you have the work life, divide the work for
12:36
Speaker 2: money and security, and then you have your life where
12:38
Speaker 2: you have your fun. Whereas I've never really done that,
12:41
Speaker 2: and right now it's like I don't. I mean, I'm
12:44
Speaker 2: sitting at home in my kitchen table right now. I
12:46
Speaker 2: don't know if I'm working. This is you know, this
12:48
Speaker 2: is not what I do. I'm just living my life
12:53
Speaker 2: and things happen. But I think most people do have
12:57
Speaker 2: that compromise, and I think that society is built that way.
12:59
Speaker 2: That you have a job and that's what you get
13:01
Speaker 2: paid for, and then you have recreations and holidays and
13:04
Speaker 2: after time, and that's when you get your enjoyment. And
13:07
Speaker 2: if they talk about work life balance, but it's really difficult.
13:11
Speaker 2: If you're really dividing, if you don't like what you do,
13:14
Speaker 2: then slowly, who's killing you?
13:17
Speaker 1: I talk about a thing DOC called work impact, so
13:19
Speaker 1: not work life balance, but whatever you do, whether it's
13:22
Speaker 1: twenty hours a week or sixty hours a week, what
13:26
Speaker 1: impact physically, mentally, emotionally that thing has on you. Because
13:30
Speaker 1: I'm a bit like you. I haven't had a job
13:32
Speaker 1: in invert Commas since I was twenty six, which was
13:35
Speaker 1: thirty three years ago. So I've worked for myself forever,
13:39
Speaker 1: and I don't really have a sense of well, I
13:43
Speaker 1: have no sense of a job, and even when I work,
13:47
Speaker 1: I don't really have I don't know what the experience
13:50
Speaker 1: of work is for others, but for me, like right now,
13:54
Speaker 1: you know, this is part of my job in inverted commas,
13:57
Speaker 1: talking to you, interviewing you. We're on a podcast, we
13:59
Speaker 1: have sponsors where associated with Nova, we're on their platform.
14:04
Speaker 2: This is you know.
14:05
Speaker 1: But but you and I could be at the cafe
14:07
Speaker 1: talking and it would be the same sense for me,
14:10
Speaker 1: the same experience, right, I think you know.
14:15
Speaker 2: To be in that regard though, I think we're both
14:17
Speaker 2: I'm born in sixty four, so it sounds like we're about
14:20
Speaker 2: the same time as September sixty three.
14:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, But and I think some like you might
14:27
Speaker 1: do eighty hours a week of something, and people go
14:29
Speaker 1: eighty hours is too much. Don't do eighty that's ridiculous,
14:32
Speaker 1: Like what if you love it? I do eighty hours
14:35
Speaker 1: every week because I'm studying full time and working full time.
14:38
Speaker 1: But it doesn't But when I'm working, like for me
14:43
Speaker 1: that the over arching experience is something between curiosity and
14:49
Speaker 1: joy and fun.
14:51
Speaker 2: There's very little that I do where I go. I
14:53
Speaker 2: fucking hate this. I am not like that. Nothing feels
14:57
Speaker 2: like labor to me.
14:59
Speaker 1: The only thing that I don't love to do which
15:01
Speaker 1: I do, which you would understand more than any of us,
15:05
Speaker 1: is you know, reading journal articles, and you know for
15:08
Speaker 1: all my research and stuff, which doesn't light my fire,
15:11
Speaker 1: but it's part of the process.
15:12
Speaker 2: You know. I actually like reading journal articles. Which stuff?
15:18
Speaker 1: Can I send you a few and you just give
15:20
Speaker 1: me the fucking reader's digest versions send.
15:22
Speaker 2: Its software that AI software that will do that for
15:25
Speaker 2: you much now, Which is which did you rearkable when you.
15:30
Speaker 1: When you were studying medicine at Monash, which is where
15:34
Speaker 1: I'm studying. So you're in this it's very kind of
15:40
Speaker 1: structured kind of medical model, and you're learning Western medicine.
15:46
Speaker 2: Of course, in the middle of that.
15:48
Speaker 1: Were you curious about we completely invested in that and
15:52
Speaker 1: when this is me for the next thirty years. Or
15:54
Speaker 1: were you simultaneously thinking about Eastern medicine and Eastern philosophies
15:59
Speaker 1: and all the other kind of things that intersect well, I.
16:03
Speaker 2: Absolutely was, So I did. I started off in one
16:06
Speaker 2: Nash Western medicine, and I did three years of that
16:08
Speaker 2: and thought, hey, I haven't learned how to have fun
16:11
Speaker 2: at all. They've taught me a lot about disease and illness,
16:13
Speaker 2: but not about wellness. I actually took a year off
16:16
Speaker 2: and did an honors degree in psychology and physiology. And
16:19
Speaker 2: at the time I wanted to study pleasure, but that
16:23
Speaker 2: this is like fifteen twenty years before positive psychology was
16:27
Speaker 2: a thing. So I actually they said you can study pain,
16:31
Speaker 2: so I didn't. Honest, I think a pleasure in pain.
16:33
Speaker 2: You know, it's a fine line, you know. If I
16:34
Speaker 2: learned that one, I learned about the other side. She
16:36
Speaker 2: did an honors degree in psychology and physiology, so covering
16:39
Speaker 2: mind and body. And in that year I came across
16:43
Speaker 2: Chinese medicine and acupuncture and reading about these Chinese martial
16:47
Speaker 2: artists and meditators who improve with age. I thought, I
16:51
Speaker 2: want some of that, you know, I want to improve
16:53
Speaker 2: with age. We're as in Western medicine. You know, you
16:55
Speaker 2: deteriorate with age, and you know it's all about how
16:58
Speaker 2: you manage that age deterioration process. So I got really
17:02
Speaker 2: intrigued by Eastern medicine. So I went back and did
17:05
Speaker 2: my fourth year of my medical degree to get some
17:07
Speaker 2: clinical experience, and then I took three years off my
17:09
Speaker 2: medical degree to do a PhD in Chinese medicine. So
17:13
Speaker 2: I was right in the middle of my and that
17:14
Speaker 2: was a big That was one of those moments where
17:17
Speaker 2: I pulled the security out from under it. Me. I'd
17:19
Speaker 2: studied four years of medicine, did an honors degree, and
17:21
Speaker 2: suddenly I'm off traveling to Asia to study acupuncture and
17:25
Speaker 2: may never come back. But I was sort of driven
17:28
Speaker 2: to do that because it was my curiosity and I
17:31
Speaker 2: thought that would be much more fun. And I couldn't
17:33
Speaker 2: live with myself if I hadn't followed my own path.
17:36
Speaker 1: So you did three years of medicine, then you did honors,
17:39
Speaker 1: then did fourth year of medicine, then you went. I
17:41
Speaker 1: love how you say you had a year off, and
17:44
Speaker 1: in the year off you did honors in physiology, and
17:46
Speaker 1: so it's not really a year off, bro, but anyway,
17:49
Speaker 1: and then you took another three years off in inverted
17:52
Speaker 1: commas and did a PhD, which, by the way, is
17:54
Speaker 1: pretty quick to do a PhD. Did you then come
17:56
Speaker 1: back and do your fifth year or.
17:58
Speaker 2: I came back then and finished a medical degree and
18:01
Speaker 2: started working as a doctor and the intern and did that,
18:05
Speaker 2: And then I did a second PhD in electrical computer
18:08
Speaker 2: systems engineering, just because I wanted to understand how technology
18:12
Speaker 2: could assess the body and how the body works from
18:15
Speaker 2: a communication perspective, and we study communication networks for electrical
18:20
Speaker 2: computer systems. Engineers not no doctors.
18:23
Speaker 1: Wow, and so do you what do you? I mean,
18:25
Speaker 1: I'm sure you think a million things. So this is
18:27
Speaker 1: a dumb question, but I'll open the door about the
18:31
Speaker 1: you know, the convergence of biology and technology now where
18:34
Speaker 1: like it's it's becoming intertwined.
18:38
Speaker 2: It's mind blowing. I've I've just written an article on
18:40
Speaker 2: biohacking for the Global Wellness Institute. I've been part of
18:44
Speaker 2: the Global Wellness Institute for the last seventeen years. You
18:48
Speaker 2: had to do a bit of research on this because
18:50
Speaker 2: I've always been on the front of that technology biology interface.
18:53
Speaker 2: So you know, like looking at devices that you know,
18:57
Speaker 2: bio feedback and consciousness tech no binoral beats and that
19:01
Speaker 2: sort of stuff, which I'm studying the nineteen eighties and
19:05
Speaker 2: if you look what's happening now, it's mind blowing. In
19:08
Speaker 2: you know, you've heard about zeno bots living robots that
19:13
Speaker 2: are they alive? Are they know their machines, but they're
19:15
Speaker 2: living and they can reproduce and they can know they
19:19
Speaker 2: can die, but then they can spawn others and so
19:23
Speaker 2: we're getting to this borderline of what is alive and
19:26
Speaker 2: what is what is living? And then you've got all
19:28
Speaker 2: the AI, which is is that sentient? How do you
19:30
Speaker 2: know when it's sentient? And then you've got and this
19:34
Speaker 2: is what I was really interested when I was when
19:37
Speaker 2: I was making the decision to study medicine nineteen eighty one,
19:41
Speaker 2: I figured, one day we're going to be able to
19:43
Speaker 2: control all the sensory inputs into the body no site, sound, tage, taste, smell, temperature, everything,
19:50
Speaker 2: and you're going to be able to program those inputs
19:54
Speaker 2: to make the best healing experience for you, personalized based
19:59
Speaker 2: on all the information I can get from your body
20:01
Speaker 2: and in real time. And it's you know, we're still
20:05
Speaker 2: not there yet, but we're probably two to five years
20:07
Speaker 2: away from that where you get real time biofeedback that
20:11
Speaker 2: can then either put pressure you know, like massage chairs
20:15
Speaker 2: that can massage your body, or electromagnetic fields, or sight
20:19
Speaker 2: and sound and color or video that is tuned just
20:22
Speaker 2: to you. And we're also getting to the point where
20:26
Speaker 2: technology is getting to master practitioner level, so you know,
20:30
Speaker 2: you go to a master massage therapist, for example, they'll
20:34
Speaker 2: put they'll suss out your body. They'll work out where
20:37
Speaker 2: the source spots are and they'll put just enough pressure
20:40
Speaker 2: and that gets you to the point of focusing your
20:43
Speaker 2: attention on that point. But just before you WinCE and
20:46
Speaker 2: you know contract, they'll relax because they're studying your faith,
20:49
Speaker 2: they're studying your breathing, they're studying their own they've got
20:52
Speaker 2: their own intuition of what works, and that's that master
20:55
Speaker 2: practitioner level. Well, we're getting to the point where AI
20:57
Speaker 2: can do that. I mean, we've already see the point
21:00
Speaker 2: with you know, AI can beat us in chairs and
21:02
Speaker 2: AlphaGo and poker and Rubik's Cube and all these things.
21:06
Speaker 2: But we're getting to the level where AI can actually
21:09
Speaker 2: interact with our body as good or not, if not
21:11
Speaker 2: better than a master practitioner can, and actually interact with
21:17
Speaker 2: us in real time for you know, healing us, for
21:20
Speaker 2: creating excitement, for creating fun, for taking us on journeys
21:24
Speaker 2: and narrative explorations, that you can pread a whole world
21:29
Speaker 2: that is designed just for you. I think that we're
21:33
Speaker 2: heading towards that. That's not far away. Amazing.
21:35
Speaker 1: We had a guy called Andrew Hessel who's a microbiologist
21:40
Speaker 1: and a geneticist. He was on the other day and
21:42
Speaker 1: we're talking about synthetic biology and we're talking about genetic
21:47
Speaker 1: engineering and programming cells and like totally personalized drugs built
21:53
Speaker 1: for your DNA, and it's it's it's bloody overwhelming, it's overwheling.
22:00
Speaker 2: So the stuff I being reading, I mean they can
22:01
Speaker 2: already they can they can three D print an ear
22:04
Speaker 2: or a bladder and body parts, so they take stem
22:07
Speaker 2: cells and they can take a skin, you know, skin scaffold.
22:11
Speaker 2: So you're talking about body modification. So just for fashion,
22:14
Speaker 2: if you want you want to have wings in the future,
22:17
Speaker 2: they'll be You'll be able to order which we want
22:19
Speaker 2: and they'll be part of your body. You know, if
22:21
Speaker 2: you want to have an extra ear or pix pixi
22:23
Speaker 2: ears or whatever shape you want. This is all coming
22:27
Speaker 2: the synthetic biology and that in it's not even just synthetic,
22:30
Speaker 2: it's it's you can actually transform real biology. And we're
22:33
Speaker 2: doing that already with you know, Crisper, and there's these
22:35
Speaker 2: biohackers and inject themselves with gene editing technology to grow
22:40
Speaker 2: their muscles or you know that you can buy gene
22:42
Speaker 2: editing stuff online to make glow in the dark beer.
22:46
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's I mean it's really crazy the technology
22:49
Speaker 2: that we're coming up, and it is this merging of
22:54
Speaker 2: the inanimate world with the animate world, you know, and
22:58
Speaker 2: if you go back to the the ancient ancient wisdom,
23:01
Speaker 2: and I really like combining advance signs with ancient wisdom.
23:05
Speaker 2: I mean, everything was alive. There was no distinction betweenimate
23:08
Speaker 2: and animates. And I think we're coming back to that,
23:10
Speaker 2: you know, as a big sort of spiraling back, but
23:14
Speaker 2: with using modern technology for that realization.
23:18
Speaker 1: I feel like a long long time ago, as a
23:23
Speaker 1: species and as individuals within that species, because of the
23:26
Speaker 1: environment that we lived in and what we did and
23:29
Speaker 1: what we didn't have, I feel like we were much
23:32
Speaker 1: more connected with our body and our physiology and biology,
23:36
Speaker 1: and that we were much more intuitive and instinctive. And
23:40
Speaker 1: in two tenty twenty three, where we've got access to everything,
23:44
Speaker 1: you know, in terms of food and booze and drugs
23:47
Speaker 1: and everything to change your state is just you know,
23:51
Speaker 1: three feet away, we've kind of become disconnected from that biofeedback.
23:56
Speaker 2: That's right. I think we have lost our own intuitive
23:59
Speaker 2: sense of who we are, and I think that you
24:03
Speaker 2: can reclaim that and a lot of the things I
24:04
Speaker 2: talk about are trying to reconnect people to that sense
24:08
Speaker 2: of their own biology, of their own physiology. And I
24:14
Speaker 2: think there is a danger with all these biometric devices.
24:18
Speaker 2: Now you know the fit from the aura rings and stuff. Well,
24:21
Speaker 2: you know, it's nice to know how well you sleep
24:23
Speaker 2: and how many steps you've done, but you sort of
24:25
Speaker 2: it detaches you from your own intuition and you lose
24:29
Speaker 2: face in your own intuitive sense of your body, and
24:31
Speaker 2: you're trusting output from some device. I think, you know,
24:36
Speaker 2: there'll be a circling back. So we're actually not going
24:39
Speaker 2: to need this technology at all, But we're not there yet.
24:43
Speaker 2: They're still to go.
24:44
Speaker 1: That's such a good point, Like when we would look
24:47
Speaker 1: at a number that's on our watch and would feel
24:49
Speaker 1: good or bad based on that number.
24:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, not how well you sleep? Oh look, you know
24:54
Speaker 2: my watch that tells me how well I slept, rather
24:55
Speaker 2: than knowing when I wake up in the morning. Oh
24:57
Speaker 2: that was a good night's sleep.
24:59
Speaker 1: So over the years, dock one of the things that
25:02
Speaker 1: I did thousands of times, which I wouldn't do anymore.
25:05
Speaker 1: But back then we didn't know any better. But in
25:09
Speaker 1: the old days, in the eighties, and nineties. We would
25:11
Speaker 1: weigh members or weigh clients every whatever, once a week
25:14
Speaker 1: or something.
25:15
Speaker 2: People would want to be weighed.
25:16
Speaker 1: And somebody could be having a great day, they're happy,
25:20
Speaker 1: everything's good, and they stand on the scales and they
25:23
Speaker 1: look at a number that appears between their toes and
25:26
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, life shit, They're having a
25:28
Speaker 1: bad day. They're depressed. They're you know, because some number
25:32
Speaker 1: appears between their toes that isn't the number that they want.
25:36
Speaker 1: But thirty seconds ago, they felt really good physically, mentally, emotionally,
25:40
Speaker 1: felt really good. And then now they've got a new
25:43
Speaker 1: bit of information. Now they feel terrible despite all the
25:46
Speaker 1: physiological kind of stuff that was, you know, a minute
25:49
Speaker 1: ago they were good.
25:51
Speaker 2: And I think, I mean, I see that a lot
25:52
Speaker 2: in medicine. So for example, there's this been trend in medicine,
25:56
Speaker 2: especially natural medicine, where they'll do still a whole lot
25:59
Speaker 2: of testing, yeah, just your blood, you know, serum, rhubarb
26:03
Speaker 2: and minerals and whatever, rather than actually find out what's
26:08
Speaker 2: what symptoms you have and treating the patient. Yes, and
26:11
Speaker 2: I think you know, when you when you're actually really
26:14
Speaker 2: and it does take a lot of skill to take
26:17
Speaker 2: a good history and you inquire into a patient how
26:20
Speaker 2: they're feeling, and you know when do that starts and
26:22
Speaker 2: really investigating what's happened. So it's very easy just to
26:25
Speaker 2: order a pathology test and seeing your minerals, your blood
26:29
Speaker 2: levels or whatever, and then treating the numbers on the
26:31
Speaker 2: pathology test rather than actually treating the patient. And I
26:34
Speaker 2: think there is a place for both. I mean, it's
26:36
Speaker 2: really good to have information, and the more information you've
26:38
Speaker 2: got you can make better decisions. But to rely just
26:43
Speaker 2: on that information for your decision making and not rely
26:45
Speaker 2: on the intuitive side and the experiential side of what's
26:49
Speaker 2: actually happening, I think the danger there will we're sort
26:52
Speaker 2: of the technology becomes between us and our intuition.
26:56
Speaker 1: I know you don't see patients too often these days,
26:59
Speaker 1: but when you do, when somebody comes to you as
27:01
Speaker 1: a a medical doctor, do you ever put on another
27:06
Speaker 1: hat and go I actually think you should go and
27:08
Speaker 1: work in the garden, or go for a jog, or
27:11
Speaker 1: it's some acupuncture, or you know, play with your puppy
27:14
Speaker 1: seven times a day.
27:16
Speaker 2: Well, I've been I guess I'm famous for doing that
27:18
Speaker 2: for the last thirty years, where I'd write prescriptions, which
27:22
Speaker 2: would be going to play with your puppy or draw
27:24
Speaker 2: dragons or go dancing. And but what I do is
27:26
Speaker 2: actually ask people what do you do that. When you
27:31
Speaker 2: do it, you lose track of time. You're so absorbed
27:34
Speaker 2: in the activity. You're not worrying about the future, you're
27:36
Speaker 2: not feeling guilty about the past. You're just absorbed in
27:38
Speaker 2: that activity. And often you you know, some people would
27:42
Speaker 2: say I don't have anything like that, and they were
27:44
Speaker 2: the really sick ones. And other people woul say, oh, yeah,
27:46
Speaker 2: I used to do ballroom dancing, or I used to paint,
27:48
Speaker 2: or I used to garden. And you'd inquire and you'd
27:52
Speaker 2: see how that their illness actually deteriorated when they stopped
27:56
Speaker 2: doing those activities. So I would prescribe. I'd get a script,
27:59
Speaker 2: pat out, perhaps I've been seeing patients this morning. Actually
28:02
Speaker 2: I get out, and I'd actually write, you know, gardening
28:05
Speaker 2: three times a week or no ballroom dancing three times
28:08
Speaker 2: a week. I'd say, you know, put this on your fridge.
28:10
Speaker 2: This is your prescription. This is what you need to do.
28:12
Speaker 2: And it was amazing the change you're getting people. Yes,
28:16
Speaker 2: and even when you get people to talk about the
28:18
Speaker 2: things they love. Because as a doctor, you know you're
28:20
Speaker 2: asking about their pain and you know, travel here and there,
28:23
Speaker 2: and how does it come on and off? So you're
28:25
Speaker 2: asking people about negative things in their lives. I would
28:27
Speaker 2: take a pleasure history. What are the most fun things
28:29
Speaker 2: you have in your life? What's your reason for living?
28:32
Speaker 2: What are the things you do but you really enjoy?
28:34
Speaker 2: And when people start to talk about those things, their
28:37
Speaker 2: voice changes, their posture changes. You can see them in
28:40
Speaker 2: live and in front of you, just as they're sharing
28:43
Speaker 2: with you, you know, the activities that they really enjoyed. And
28:47
Speaker 2: that was really powerful to focus on. So I mean,
28:50
Speaker 2: one example, I remember I had an old patient who
28:54
Speaker 2: was a Vietnam vest. He'd broken everybody bone in his
28:57
Speaker 2: body as a paratrooper, and he had this chronic pain
29:01
Speaker 2: condition and he was getting pathodene injections and there was
29:03
Speaker 2: not even off space in his body to put the
29:05
Speaker 2: injections because it was all Frey braised up. But the
29:08
Speaker 2: one thing he did with fly remote control aeroplanes. This
29:12
Speaker 2: is in the nineteen nineties, and when he was focusing
29:14
Speaker 2: on and he was like a strange champion at it.
29:17
Speaker 2: But when he was focusing on airplanes. His pain wasn't
29:19
Speaker 2: an issue. Wow, But the rest of the time it was.
29:21
Speaker 2: So you know, having something that you love to do
29:23
Speaker 2: and you focus on that, that's actually medicine, and that's
29:28
Speaker 2: what i'd prescribe. So yeah, I do that commonly, isn't it?
29:32
Speaker 1: Do you find it in so probably people listen to
29:35
Speaker 1: you and respect you a lot more than they do me.
29:37
Speaker 1: But I find it interesting sometimes when people talk to
29:40
Speaker 1: you about, you know, if they're flat or they're depressed
29:44
Speaker 1: or they're anxious, and we'll talk about doing something that
29:48
Speaker 1: is like we spoke about like playing hanging out with
29:52
Speaker 1: your animals or being in nature or listening to music
29:55
Speaker 1: or meditating, or they're like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but
29:58
Speaker 1: what do you think is xanax? I'm like, well, one,
30:02
Speaker 1: I'm not a doctor, but two, you know why doren't
30:04
Speaker 1: we like are We're a culture that seems to have
30:08
Speaker 1: more faith in drugs than I mean, there are so
30:11
Speaker 1: many things that can lower your heart rate and lower
30:13
Speaker 1: your blood pressure and reduce anxiety and that that don't
30:17
Speaker 1: involve any kind of drug.
30:19
Speaker 2: So I've got a poem for this. At the start
30:21
Speaker 2: of the pandemic, I was thinking, you know, because I've
30:23
Speaker 2: studied all these complimentary medicines. I've written all these research
30:26
Speaker 2: papers on them, So saying, what are all the activities
30:28
Speaker 2: you can do at home with no cost, no training,
30:31
Speaker 2: and no equipment that have research evidence that they reduce anxiety,
30:36
Speaker 2: improve immunity. And yeah, they've got evidence behind them. So
30:42
Speaker 2: I started writing these out and it came and it
30:44
Speaker 2: came out of a poem. So this I'm sort of
30:46
Speaker 2: I'm proud of this potent. It's got fifty activities in it,
30:49
Speaker 2: hear it. If you go to my website, you can
30:51
Speaker 2: click on each of these activities and it will link
30:53
Speaker 2: to the research behind it.
30:55
Speaker 1: You know what, We've never in five years and one
30:57
Speaker 1: thousand and nearly eleven hundred episodes, never had anyone share
31:01
Speaker 1: a pime, So sore. This is the debut for typ pimes.
31:05
Speaker 2: And this is a systematic review poem, so evidence based poem.
31:09
Speaker 2: I call it the World of Wellness, and it goes
31:11
Speaker 2: like this, Hold someone's hand, gaze into their eyes, go
31:16
Speaker 2: barefoot in nature, bask in sunrise, choose a dance partner
31:21
Speaker 2: and go find your groove, do tich your yoga and
31:24
Speaker 2: mindfully move, share a massage, enjoy healing, touch, Focus on
31:30
Speaker 2: one thing and don't think too much. Make time for
31:34
Speaker 2: a hobby, play chess, fly kite, make use of your hands,
31:38
Speaker 2: draw paint so or right. Help someone in need, Donate
31:43
Speaker 2: to a cause, play games, meditate, read stuff from bookstores,
31:49
Speaker 2: turn off your screens, get a good sleep, beclutter, spark
31:54
Speaker 2: joy and love what you keep. Dig around in the garden,
31:59
Speaker 2: pick up a guitar, slip into a bathtub, sauna or spa.
32:04
Speaker 2: Care for a pet, take up a sport, Go on
32:07
Speaker 2: vacation and make your home a resort. Lie in a hammock,
32:12
Speaker 2: relief pent up stress, relax and do nothing and then
32:17
Speaker 2: do even less. Laugh out loud, share a joke, give
32:22
Speaker 2: someone a kiss, say a prayer, chant a mantra, and
32:27
Speaker 2: follow your bliss. So that that's pretty amazing. I love that.
32:34
Speaker 2: Where can people find that mark on my website? Doctor
32:37
Speaker 2: mark dot co, d r M A r C dot
32:40
Speaker 2: co and forward slash poems and uh all research backed.
32:46
Speaker 2: That's all research back. So each one of those activities
32:48
Speaker 2: has a link to the to the systematic review or
32:50
Speaker 2: the randomized control trial that that's backing it. And I
32:54
Speaker 2: give I think of that that poem to my patience.
32:56
Speaker 2: I say, have include as many of these activities in
33:00
Speaker 2: your life if you can.
33:01
Speaker 1: You know what I laughed is just before when you
33:04
Speaker 1: said I've been seeing patients this morning and you held
33:06
Speaker 1: up a script pad there, I would think, one because
33:10
Speaker 1: you're a medical doctor, and two because you're writing. Even
33:13
Speaker 1: if it's like go dancing, or even if it's you know,
33:16
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes a day line the floor with your dog,
33:18
Speaker 1: you know, or twice a day, but it's on a
33:21
Speaker 1: script pad. It's given to me by a doctor. I'm
33:23
Speaker 1: much more likely.
33:24
Speaker 2: To do it. That's it. You just told me to
33:27
Speaker 2: do it. I'm less likely.
33:28
Speaker 1: But if you write it out on a on a
33:30
Speaker 1: script I feel like, well, shit, this is clinical.
33:32
Speaker 2: I've got to do this. That's right, and put it
33:34
Speaker 2: on your fridge, you know, the fringe magnet. Yeah, so
33:36
Speaker 2: it gives it some authority to do that. Mind you.
33:39
Speaker 2: At the moment, I just write scripts on medical cannabis,
33:41
Speaker 2: so I don't really write other other scripts. Oh well,
33:45
Speaker 2: now you're going to get in undated. I don't need
33:49
Speaker 2: more patient. Really.
33:54
Speaker 1: One of the things that we've spoken about I reckon
33:57
Speaker 1: five times in a thousand episodes.
33:59
Speaker 2: I'm interested in your take on it.
34:01
Speaker 1: And in fact, Tiff and I spoke about a guy
34:04
Speaker 1: that we've both spoken with a bit called Professor Jeffrey
34:07
Speaker 1: Reddicker from Harvard who is a researcher and but specializes
34:14
Speaker 1: or spends a lot of time and effort researching spontaneous
34:18
Speaker 1: healing and plus ebos and all of that. What do
34:22
Speaker 1: you think of all that? Where do you sit with
34:25
Speaker 1: the you know, our ability to heal ourselves from things
34:28
Speaker 1: that apparently are death sentences.
34:33
Speaker 2: Or terminal Yeah, I mean, I believe nature has infinite
34:37
Speaker 2: healing power. And I've because I've been in this natural
34:41
Speaker 2: medicine world for thirty plus years, I've seen so many
34:44
Speaker 2: cases of dramatic healing. I mean I'm a good friend
34:46
Speaker 2: with Ian Gawler. Yeah, he's a case study of you know,
34:50
Speaker 2: he had these canniball lesions in his lungs and the
34:52
Speaker 2: bony cancers all the way through his lungs and given
34:54
Speaker 2: six weeks to live and what forty years later he's
34:56
Speaker 2: still around and you know, transformed his life through you know,
35:01
Speaker 2: sort of meditation and you know, lifestyle change. So I've
35:04
Speaker 2: seen some really dramatic turnarounds. Yes, And I mean, if
35:10
Speaker 2: you have a look what humans are capable of. It's
35:12
Speaker 2: mind blowing, you know, some of these amazing YouTube videos
35:15
Speaker 2: of what people can do. And now how to turn
35:19
Speaker 2: that on? Because one thing to say, Okay, there's these
35:22
Speaker 2: examples of it, how do you actually activate it? And
35:25
Speaker 2: some of those activities in my poem and those activities,
35:27
Speaker 2: but when you move track of time so you're sort
35:30
Speaker 2: of at one with the universe, that's there. They're the
35:32
Speaker 2: activities that can potentially turn that on. But there is
35:36
Speaker 2: no answer of how to know switch that on for everybody,
35:40
Speaker 2: and not that you want to. I mean, in Western medicine,
35:43
Speaker 2: we see, you know, death as the enemy and you know,
35:46
Speaker 2: fight it at all costs. But I've seen people have amazing, beautiful,
35:51
Speaker 2: really wanted and welcome death and they were really successful.
35:57
Speaker 2: But Western medicine still sees that as a failure a
36:00
Speaker 2: deare So Yeah, I think we have incredible power. I mean,
36:06
Speaker 2: the whole placebo effect. I mean it's so powerful you
36:08
Speaker 2: have to control for it and all these experiments because
36:10
Speaker 2: it works. Yeah, it works a lot of the time.
36:15
Speaker 1: What about one of the great challenges, especially twenty twenty three,
36:20
Speaker 1: I think its been around forever, really about post pandemic.
36:23
Speaker 1: There's a lot of conversation around anxiety. Is anxiety produced
36:28
Speaker 1: more by the situation and circumstance or more by the
36:31
Speaker 1: individual in the middle of it?
36:34
Speaker 2: Oh, certainly by the individual. And a lot of the
36:37
Speaker 2: stuff I've been teaching people now and working on is
36:40
Speaker 2: how you can remain really calm and relaxed in the
36:43
Speaker 2: midst of a really chaotic and stressful situation. So there's
36:47
Speaker 2: things like, you know, I did a two with Bim
36:49
Speaker 2: Half and you know, how to teaching people how to
36:51
Speaker 2: stay in an ice bath, which is not really comfortable,
36:55
Speaker 2: but how do you then relax when you're in an
36:56
Speaker 2: ice bath? And the work we did with Lauren actually
36:59
Speaker 2: the Lauren Burns she's a gold mellice in taekwondo and
37:01
Speaker 2: she was one of my PhD students, and we investigated
37:06
Speaker 2: these world champion athletes who'd be multiple world champions and said,
37:10
Speaker 2: how do you stay in the top of the world
37:11
Speaker 2: in your sport for so many years? I mean, what
37:13
Speaker 2: you eat, what do you think? How do you live?
37:15
Speaker 2: And we found out that they all did ice bathing,
37:18
Speaker 2: and they did it for the mental health benefits of
37:21
Speaker 2: how to relax in a stressful situation, and I think
37:25
Speaker 2: that's a really important skill. I mean, yoga gives you
37:27
Speaker 2: that skill. When you do a yoga stretch, you sort
37:30
Speaker 2: of go to the edge of your stretch, and there's
37:31
Speaker 2: a point that I call the point of forced mindfulness.
37:35
Speaker 2: That's the point where your body says, don't go any further,
37:37
Speaker 2: you're going to hurt yourself. You don't stretch any further.
37:40
Speaker 2: And if you do stretch, if you try and push
37:41
Speaker 2: past that, you're going to tear a muscle and you
37:43
Speaker 2: reduce your flexibility. If you just go to that point
37:46
Speaker 2: of where you're feeling quite stress and you're at the
37:49
Speaker 2: edge of your tolerance, and then you practice relaxing and breathing,
37:53
Speaker 2: so you're relaxing in that stressful situation. The same thing
37:56
Speaker 2: happens in a sauna or an ice bath. There's a
37:58
Speaker 2: point where your body fis get out, it's too much,
38:00
Speaker 2: when you're about to tap out, and at that point,
38:02
Speaker 2: if you can just relax and practice being relaxed under stress,
38:06
Speaker 2: that builds up your resilience. But if you do that
38:10
Speaker 2: what I recommend, and this naturally happens in the open class,
38:12
Speaker 2: so you know you're doing your stretches and you stretch
38:14
Speaker 2: one side and the other side, and you go to
38:16
Speaker 2: the point of that no forced mindfulness well being comfortably uncomfortable.
38:21
Speaker 2: So you practice being relaxed under stress. But then at
38:24
Speaker 2: the end of the class, you go into hvacinating at
38:26
Speaker 2: the corpse pose and you do a deep relaxation and
38:30
Speaker 2: then you're practicing relaxing while you're relaxed. And when you
38:34
Speaker 2: do that, you go much deeper into the relaxation because
38:38
Speaker 2: you've stressed yourself earlier, so the contrast between the stress
38:42
Speaker 2: and the relaxation is greater. And when you really relax
38:46
Speaker 2: deeply like that, all your stress hormones can't fall back
38:49
Speaker 2: into balance, your mental activity comes back into balance, and
38:53
Speaker 2: you really get in touch with your inner self. That's
38:56
Speaker 2: a great time to make decisions if you have to
38:58
Speaker 2: have to make an important decision, because you're in touch
39:01
Speaker 2: with yourself literally, and it's a really good time to heal.
39:06
Speaker 2: That's when your body doesn't healing. So yeah, I really
39:11
Speaker 2: encourage people to go to the limits of their stress
39:14
Speaker 2: and practical relaxing while they're stressed, but then balance that
39:18
Speaker 2: with having a deep relaxation and practicing being relaxed while
39:22
Speaker 2: you're relaxed shout out to Lauren.
39:24
Speaker 1: If Lauren's listening, we love you, your ace and thanks for
39:26
Speaker 1: connecting the doc and us. It's much appreciated. Yeah, that's that,
39:32
Speaker 1: that equanimity, that calm in the chaos, right, That being
39:35
Speaker 1: able to, you know, despite what's going on around, you
39:40
Speaker 1: self regulate and.
39:41
Speaker 2: To be able to as much as James Bond effect. Right.
39:45
Speaker 2: We love about James Bond because you know, there's all
39:47
Speaker 2: these chaos going around, but he knows who to shoot
39:49
Speaker 2: and who to kire for to go.
39:51
Speaker 1: Through and you know, yeah, how do I make good
39:54
Speaker 1: decisions and do smart things and act and react the
39:57
Speaker 1: way that is optimal in the middle of the ship
40:00
Speaker 1: that's going that's right, that's going on around.
40:02
Speaker 2: But the way to do it is you create a
40:04
Speaker 2: shit best and you practice doing that and then when
40:06
Speaker 2: life throws it at you, then you can deal with it.
40:09
Speaker 2: That's so true. Is like we.
40:15
Speaker 1: In fact back to TIFFs. So tif's training for this
40:17
Speaker 1: thing that will remain nameless, but it's going to be
40:20
Speaker 1: horrible potentially. And so I said to her, like the
40:24
Speaker 1: other day, I've been getting it to do things that
40:27
Speaker 1: a lot of them are fucking horrible and I go,
40:30
Speaker 1: you need to be used to horrible because if we
40:34
Speaker 1: just get you traditionally fit, you know, that's great, But
40:40
Speaker 1: if we're doing it in a methodical, reasonable, comfortable, sensible way,
40:45
Speaker 1: when you get in the middle of this thing that
40:47
Speaker 1: you're training for where it isn't predictable, it isn't nice,
40:51
Speaker 1: it isn't comfortable, it isn't familiar, it's freezing.
40:54
Speaker 2: You're in the middle of water. You hear you're there.
40:56
Speaker 1: There's all this shit going on that you haven't dealt with.
41:00
Speaker 1: You know, for me, even as an exercise physiologist, I
41:03
Speaker 1: think it's thirty percent about your body and seventy percent
41:06
Speaker 1: about all the other stuff. You know, so me trying
41:09
Speaker 1: to get and the same with you know, I've worked
41:11
Speaker 1: with lots of professional athletes, and you know, understanding what
41:16
Speaker 1: their body needs to be doing to execute what they
41:19
Speaker 1: need to do for their sport or task or activity
41:21
Speaker 1: is fundamental. But you can get any brilliant, genetically gifted
41:26
Speaker 1: athlete who's beautifully trained, but if they can't perform under pressure,
41:30
Speaker 1: they're fucked. You can't be a Lauren Burns, no matter
41:33
Speaker 1: how great your body or genetics or skill or talent is.
41:37
Speaker 1: If you can't go to the Olympic Games and under
41:39
Speaker 1: extreme pressure execute, you know. And that's the thing is,
41:44
Speaker 1: so it's like, yeah, fit, strong, functional, specifically trained, well nourished,
41:48
Speaker 1: well slept, you know, all the all the physiological buttons pushed. Yep, sure,
41:54
Speaker 1: but can you deal with shit? Can you do what
41:57
Speaker 1: most people would give up on?
42:00
Speaker 2: That's where you know, you can recreate a ship storm
42:02
Speaker 2: and practice exhibiting a ship storm and then and then
42:05
Speaker 2: then you actually feel it that. It builds your physiological resilience.
42:09
Speaker 2: It also builds your confidence because when you can do that,
42:12
Speaker 2: you feel like you can handle anything. You feel invincible.
42:15
Speaker 2: And yeah, that's what I really I love teaching people
42:18
Speaker 2: that and I do a lot through bathing because bathings.
42:21
Speaker 2: Most people think bathing's really comfortable. You know, you go
42:23
Speaker 2: to hot springs and your lie in hot water. It's
42:25
Speaker 2: really and it is, that's super relaxing and super comfortable.
42:27
Speaker 2: But you go into an ice bath and after a
42:30
Speaker 2: minute or two you really want to get out, Or
42:32
Speaker 2: you go into a sauna and after ten, fifteen, twenty
42:35
Speaker 2: minutes you really want to get out because your body
42:38
Speaker 2: is suffering and dealing with that. And as you've got
42:41
Speaker 2: another little poem here. So the last poem was all
42:44
Speaker 2: about the chronic things you can do to keep yourself relaxed.
42:47
Speaker 2: So this is in the acute situation, when the ship
42:50
Speaker 2: storm is hitting you, there's what you want to do
42:52
Speaker 2: is activate your parasympathetic nervous system. Because normally, you know,
42:56
Speaker 2: when the ship storm hits, you've got your sympathetic nervous
42:58
Speaker 2: system where it's fight and flight, you're up and your
43:00
Speaker 2: adrenalines up. But when you're in fight and flight, often
43:05
Speaker 2: that's fearful and your brain turns off. In that fight
43:08
Speaker 2: and fight, you don't want to think about it. You
43:10
Speaker 2: want to act instinctively, so you don't have tiger or
43:13
Speaker 2: should I do this or that? But if you can
43:15
Speaker 2: calm yourself down, you can make a better decision. And
43:18
Speaker 2: there's a way to do that to stimulate your rest
43:20
Speaker 2: and digest your parasympathetic nervous system. And there are things
43:24
Speaker 2: you can do with your body, very simple things that
43:26
Speaker 2: will activate your parasympathetic nervous system. And like all these things,
43:30
Speaker 2: the ten hacks to relax, and it's super simple. It's
43:34
Speaker 2: touch all your fingers, wiggle your toes, soften your stomach,
43:39
Speaker 2: breathe through your nose, thy smile, wallow thing, flutter your eyelids,
43:48
Speaker 2: and focus within. Now, all of those activities activate your
43:54
Speaker 2: parasympathetic nervous system. And there are all activities you do
43:56
Speaker 2: when you're safe in your cave, when you're running away
43:59
Speaker 2: from the tiger or fighting a battle.
44:01
Speaker 1: It's so smart that you do that. I mean, it's
44:03
Speaker 1: so smart that you you're teaching people, you know, because
44:07
Speaker 1: people can memorize that quite easily, and recall that.
44:13
Speaker 2: I was teaching to a patient this morning with PTSD
44:15
Speaker 2: and anxiety and having panic attacks. And when the panic
44:18
Speaker 2: attack comes on, if you've got things you can do
44:21
Speaker 2: that give you a sense of control, but they actually
44:23
Speaker 2: calm your nervous system. And this is you know the
44:27
Speaker 2: you know the power of vagel. You know the Vagel
44:30
Speaker 2: theory where you can have sympathetic nervous system high because
44:33
Speaker 2: you're in a high adrenaline situation, but then you can
44:36
Speaker 2: increase your vagual activity, your parasympathetic so you can still
44:40
Speaker 2: be relaxed in that chaotic situation. And that's when you
44:43
Speaker 2: make the best decisions. That's when you can get the
44:46
Speaker 2: edge over your component, your opponent, and where you for
44:49
Speaker 2: much better. So it's how do you stop panicking and
44:53
Speaker 2: stay calm when the ship storm hits? And these sort
44:56
Speaker 2: of tricks can help.
44:57
Speaker 1: So you can be cognitively and physiolog logically optimal at
45:02
Speaker 1: the same time. Now, maybe forty percent of my audience,
45:06
Speaker 1: I'm guessing do not know who wim Hoff is.
45:08
Speaker 2: I do.
45:08
Speaker 1: I'm a fan, Tiff, you know, of course, don't you. Yep,
45:14
Speaker 1: one tell us who he is and tell us what
45:16
Speaker 1: you did with him.
45:18
Speaker 2: So whims they call him the iceman. So he sort
45:20
Speaker 2: of made ice fading quite famous. He has a method
45:23
Speaker 2: that involves breathing where you breathe as much as you
45:26
Speaker 2: can so hyperventilate and blow off all your carbon dogs
45:29
Speaker 2: side and get dizzy and lightheaded and really uncomfortable, and
45:32
Speaker 2: then you hold your breath for as long as you can.
45:34
Speaker 2: And it just happens when you if you blow off
45:36
Speaker 2: all your carbon dox side and then hold your breath,
45:37
Speaker 2: you can hold your breath for a long time and
45:39
Speaker 2: anyone can do that. And then he also promoted he
45:43
Speaker 2: had the world record for many years of the longest
45:45
Speaker 2: spent in an ice bath over an hour. He can
45:48
Speaker 2: spend in full ice and control his body temperature, and
45:51
Speaker 2: then no one could believe that he could train anyone
45:54
Speaker 2: else to do that. And they actually tested him. They
45:56
Speaker 2: did some research on him where they gave him in
45:59
Speaker 2: jet him with the poison around E. Coli. So it's
46:03
Speaker 2: it's pretending you've got a blood infection without active bacteria.
46:09
Speaker 2: So it's the lipoy protein coat around the bacteria. That's
46:12
Speaker 2: what your body reacts to when you've got septasmia or
46:14
Speaker 2: blood infection. So they gave that to him and he
46:17
Speaker 2: did his breathing, did his thing, and he didn't get
46:19
Speaker 2: affected by it at all, and they couldn't believe. And
46:23
Speaker 2: he's this amazing charismatic dutch Man who's got a lot
46:27
Speaker 2: of bravado and a lot of self confidence. And they said,
46:29
Speaker 2: you know, oh yeah, you can do that because you're
46:31
Speaker 2: a freak. He goes, no, I can teach anyone to
46:33
Speaker 2: do it, And they said, how long you take a
46:34
Speaker 2: year of training on? And I take him on the
46:36
Speaker 2: weekend and they said, oh yeah, sure, And he did it.
46:39
Speaker 2: He took a group of it was about twenty five
46:42
Speaker 2: people away in Poland and I think maybe he took
46:45
Speaker 2: him for five days or a week and trained him
46:47
Speaker 2: on the train them on the breathing, trained them on
46:49
Speaker 2: the ice bathing. They did end up walking up a
46:51
Speaker 2: mountain in the snow in their in their board shorts,
46:55
Speaker 2: and a week later they all tested with the same
46:57
Speaker 2: injection of what should have been except to see me,
47:00
Speaker 2: which gives you fever and chills and pains for twenty
47:03
Speaker 2: four hours, and they were able to do it as well.
47:06
Speaker 2: So he has this whim half method, which is the
47:09
Speaker 2: breathing and the ice bathing, where he trains people to
47:13
Speaker 2: overcome their own sort of body, their own physiology. And
47:16
Speaker 2: he came to Australia about five years ago, especially living
47:20
Speaker 2: up in NUSA at the moment, I think, and I
47:23
Speaker 2: sort of toured with him, giving the lecture on the
47:26
Speaker 2: signs behind the whim half method. And it was really
47:29
Speaker 2: interesting for me to formula research there because I'd already
47:32
Speaker 2: done a lot of research on breathing practices and bathing
47:34
Speaker 2: practices and stuff. So I sort of condensed that together.
47:37
Speaker 2: And so we went to Brisbane and Sydney in Melbourne
47:40
Speaker 2: and we had like five hundred people would come to
47:42
Speaker 2: an event and they'd all do two minutes in an
47:44
Speaker 2: ice bath. And when you do two minutes on an
47:46
Speaker 2: ice bath. You feel amazing when you get out in
47:49
Speaker 2: this indorphin rush and you feel really powerful. So they're
47:54
Speaker 2: really sort of high vibing events. And so I traveled
47:57
Speaker 2: with him. I ended up doing some research which you
47:59
Speaker 2: never fully got published, but where we in survey. One
48:04
Speaker 2: of my PhD students surveyed about four thousand people doing
48:06
Speaker 2: the whim Hoff met and saying, you know, why do
48:08
Speaker 2: you do it? What effects do you get? What are
48:10
Speaker 2: the benefits? And it was amazing that people get incredible
48:13
Speaker 2: benefits from PTSD and anxiety, from depression, and from back
48:18
Speaker 2: pain and joint pains and fibromyalgia and chronic pain. They
48:21
Speaker 2: were like the big ticket items that people got benefits from.
48:25
Speaker 2: And I think it's especially with the anxiety and the PTSD,
48:29
Speaker 2: is like when you go into an ice bath, you
48:31
Speaker 2: naturally you had to ventilate, and that reproduces the breathing
48:36
Speaker 2: pattern and the body chemistry of anxiety of trauma. You know,
48:41
Speaker 2: when I was working in emergency departments, you'd have people
48:43
Speaker 2: coming into the emergency department thinking they have a heart attack,
48:47
Speaker 2: but they're hype of ventilating. They're having a panic attack.
48:49
Speaker 2: But it's the same sort of feeling that you're having well,
48:52
Speaker 2: you're about to die and having a panic attack, and
48:55
Speaker 2: you can simulate that by going to an ice bath.
48:58
Speaker 2: But then if you can control your breathing and overcome that,
49:02
Speaker 2: it gives you the chance, well, I can overcome this panic.
49:06
Speaker 2: And it can be dangerous if you've had really severe
49:09
Speaker 2: trauma in the past and you do that to someone unexpected,
49:12
Speaker 2: you can reactivate that trauma. But if you do that
49:15
Speaker 2: in a very controlled environment where they can get out
49:17
Speaker 2: anytime they want, they're in full control of the situation.
49:19
Speaker 2: There's a hot bath or a sauna or something that
49:21
Speaker 2: can warm up so they're not going to freeze, then
49:23
Speaker 2: they can actually reproduce that previous trauma, that panic in
49:28
Speaker 2: a way that they're in control of it. And then
49:30
Speaker 2: they can overcome and they can control their breath and
49:32
Speaker 2: relax their breathing down, and suddenly they've got mastery over
49:35
Speaker 2: their own body when they didn't have it before, and
49:38
Speaker 2: that could be super powerful. And often when you're doing
49:42
Speaker 2: big public events or five hundred people sitting in nice bars,
49:45
Speaker 2: you need to watch out for the people who are
49:47
Speaker 2: getting triggered by that who and with a bit of coaching,
49:51
Speaker 2: pretty much everybody gets through it. But it's a really
49:54
Speaker 2: empowering thing for people to do. But you do have
49:58
Speaker 2: to be a little bit careful because people are more sensitive.
50:02
Speaker 2: To give people that feeling of control over panic, it's
50:07
Speaker 2: such a gift to give to people, do you know.
50:11
Speaker 1: You know, so I remember hearing about that where he
50:13
Speaker 1: was in that hospital and they injected him with that
50:17
Speaker 1: whatever it was that made people. Typically it would make
50:20
Speaker 1: people really unwell for a period of time, and he
50:23
Speaker 1: went give it to me, and they gave it to
50:26
Speaker 1: him and he was completely fine and there. Yeah, and
50:29
Speaker 1: then he trained all those people that were not handpicked
50:33
Speaker 1: by him. I don't think I think they're actually chosen
50:35
Speaker 1: by the researchers or whatever.
50:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I hadn't done anything special before. And no,
50:41
Speaker 2: just here I can't like.
50:43
Speaker 1: What I don't get is why does that not blow
50:46
Speaker 1: everyone's socks off. Let's research that. Let's lean into like,
50:51
Speaker 1: here's all of these people doing shit that is not
50:54
Speaker 1: meant to be possible. Why are we not pushing into that?
50:58
Speaker 1: Is it because it.
50:59
Speaker 2: Makes no money? There's no money in it? I mean
51:01
Speaker 2: what I mean, He's and now you know all the
51:04
Speaker 2: stuff in that poem, I just read. You know, those
51:06
Speaker 2: activities don't cost anything, and.
51:09
Speaker 1: They don't make money for any organizations, do they.
51:12
Speaker 2: That's right, well Studdling, I mean the wellness industry and
51:14
Speaker 2: the spa industry in Hot Springs. I mean, yes, pretty
51:18
Speaker 2: nice and boring, but it's not it's not really a
51:20
Speaker 2: blockbuster drug that you can make a billion dollars or
51:22
Speaker 2: you know, many boultiple billions of dollars out of a
51:25
Speaker 2: molecule by doing that. These are activities. I mean, so
51:28
Speaker 2: for example, I really I've got to I think I
51:31
Speaker 2: call the cold water hockey pokey, which is a way
51:33
Speaker 2: of so because after the wim Hoff thing and traveling
51:36
Speaker 2: in the ice spading, I was going to lectures, you know,
51:39
Speaker 2: plays like wing Ghana, which is like this luxury health retreat,
51:41
Speaker 2: and I tell people to you know, going to use
51:44
Speaker 2: cold water, and most people say, I know, we hate
51:46
Speaker 2: cold water. We can't tolerate it, you know, because people
51:48
Speaker 2: are pretty wimpy generally. So I thought, and you know,
51:51
Speaker 2: wim just do it, you know, get in there. And
51:54
Speaker 2: but you know the people who come to whim hoffa then,
51:56
Speaker 2: or the alpha males or the alpha females or you know,
51:59
Speaker 2: the fighters and the martial artists and the footballer, and
52:03
Speaker 2: I was talking to elder women and people who are
52:07
Speaker 2: more sort of relaxed, so there must be a way
52:11
Speaker 2: to do this that's gentle. And I came up with
52:13
Speaker 2: this what I call the cold water hokey pokey, and
52:16
Speaker 2: you can do it at home in the shower. It
52:18
Speaker 2: doesn't cost any money. You see, just basically you start
52:20
Speaker 2: off with a hot shower, and then at the end
52:23
Speaker 2: of your life hot shower, you turn the heat up
52:25
Speaker 2: a little bit so you become a bit uncomfortably hot
52:28
Speaker 2: and a bit flushed. And at that point you stand
52:31
Speaker 2: back and you turn the hot water off and the
52:33
Speaker 2: cold water on. But you just get your left foot.
52:36
Speaker 2: It's okay, you've been really hot, and you put your
52:38
Speaker 2: left foot can handle the cold water, and then you
52:40
Speaker 2: put your left leg in, and you put your right
52:42
Speaker 2: foot and your leg and then your left hand and
52:45
Speaker 2: arm and your other hand and arm. And what that
52:47
Speaker 2: does it constricts the blood in your limbs and sends
52:50
Speaker 2: that hot blood into the core of your body. But
52:53
Speaker 2: you're still feeling okay even though you've got the cold
52:56
Speaker 2: water on your limbs. And then you keep breathing calmly
52:58
Speaker 2: and you smile to yourself, because that's what it's all about.
53:02
Speaker 2: How do you stay calm and you have that inn
53:06
Speaker 2: a piece, and then then you take a big breath
53:09
Speaker 2: in and before you put your left side in, you
53:12
Speaker 2: start to sigh out. And then you put your left
53:15
Speaker 2: side in, and when the water hits your neck and
53:18
Speaker 2: your sort of upper body. Normally that would when you
53:20
Speaker 2: go oh, it would make you have a big gasp
53:22
Speaker 2: because your blood dessels are close to the surface there,
53:24
Speaker 2: and that gives you that shock. But if you're already
53:26
Speaker 2: going hugh as you do that, you feel the cold,
53:30
Speaker 2: you don't get the shock, so it takes the emotional
53:32
Speaker 2: reaction away from it. So you take a big sigh
53:35
Speaker 2: and you put your left side in, your right side in,
53:38
Speaker 2: your front side in, and you turn yourself around and
53:41
Speaker 2: keeping calmly and smile to yourself because that's what it's
53:43
Speaker 2: all about. And then you put your whole head in
53:45
Speaker 2: and then you move your head around, you know, standstill,
53:47
Speaker 2: get a drenching, slowly, turn yourself around, continue breathing, calmly,
53:50
Speaker 2: smile to yourself. That's what it's all about. And then
53:52
Speaker 2: you can put the cold water on your kidneys when
53:54
Speaker 2: you're growing and on your arm pits, the places where
53:57
Speaker 2: your bloodvessels are close to the surface, chills your body
54:00
Speaker 2: a little bit, and you'll find after doing that, you'll
54:03
Speaker 2: be standing in the cold water and you say, oh,
54:05
Speaker 2: it's all right, I can do this. And at that
54:07
Speaker 2: point you're breathing calmly, you're in the cold water. You
54:09
Speaker 2: get out and you start your day. And it takes
54:11
Speaker 2: about a minute, like literally one minute to do that.
54:14
Speaker 2: And if you do it, you started your day singing
54:16
Speaker 2: and dancing. You come out feeling amazingly alive and invincible.
54:20
Speaker 2: Your hair and your skin improoves because cold water actually
54:22
Speaker 2: is really good for your hair and your skin, and
54:25
Speaker 2: you feel like you can do anything. And the hardest
54:28
Speaker 2: part of that whole thing is the decision to do it.
54:32
Speaker 2: It doesn't cost any money, it doesn't take any time.
54:34
Speaker 2: I mean, it saves money, you're saving hot water. But
54:37
Speaker 2: that decision to do it is that barrier. But if
54:40
Speaker 2: you can overcome that barrier, that procrastination barrier, that can
54:44
Speaker 2: then have like a rollover effect for the rest of
54:47
Speaker 2: your life. So that difficult conversation you want to you
54:50
Speaker 2: had to have, or that job, that shitty job you
54:52
Speaker 2: really didn't want to do Suddenly, okay, I can just
54:54
Speaker 2: do it, and you just make the decision to do it,
54:57
Speaker 2: and you do it knowing that it's not the best
55:00
Speaker 2: thing to do. You know, it's not the most fun
55:01
Speaker 2: thing to do, but it's actually fun overcoming that hurdle.
55:05
Speaker 1: Once we get fully immersed, Mark, once I'm all in head, yeah,
55:10
Speaker 1: everything pits knackers are how how long do I stay
55:15
Speaker 1: and need to stay under there?
55:16
Speaker 2: Thirty sixty not even just to the point where you're
55:20
Speaker 2: breathing comfortably, right, so that once you're breathing comfortably, that's
55:24
Speaker 2: the biggest hurdle. Now there is an added benefit if
55:28
Speaker 2: you can get to the point where you become shivery, right,
55:31
Speaker 2: so at the point of you're not shivering and a
55:33
Speaker 2: chattering but if you're a little bit shivery, then what
55:35
Speaker 2: you've dropped, you've dropped your body temperature, and that does
55:39
Speaker 2: things like activate brown fat, which helps you burn white fat,
55:44
Speaker 2: and that turns on your metabolism, has other benefits. But
55:47
Speaker 2: just the benefit of overcoming the cold and showing that
55:50
Speaker 2: you can actually overcome a difficult situation and be calm
55:54
Speaker 2: just to the point where you're in the cold breathing calmly.
55:56
Speaker 2: That's all you need at that point, You're good to go.
56:00
Speaker 1: Well, if you know what today's activity is, don't you? Hi, Mark,
56:06
Speaker 1: You're amazing. We know you've got another podcast coming up.
56:09
Speaker 1: How do people find you? Follow you, connect with you,
56:12
Speaker 1: read your poems and learn more.
56:14
Speaker 2: About you and your work. So my website is doctor
56:18
Speaker 2: Mark Dr M A r C dot Co. I post
56:23
Speaker 2: a bit on Facebook and on LinkedIn. I'm not really
56:27
Speaker 2: on Instagram. I need to up my social media, but yeah,
56:30
Speaker 2: on my website of Facebook or LinkedIn the main sort
56:33
Speaker 2: of avenues, they can email me info I n FO
56:37
Speaker 2: at doctor Mark dot Co. They can email me for
56:40
Speaker 2: people you know want to communicate with me at all. Yeah,
56:44
Speaker 2: and I'm upgrading my website. But all my poems and
56:47
Speaker 2: stuff are there at the moment, and they're all three
56:49
Speaker 2: and I'm happy to share.
56:52
Speaker 1: Well, we would love to have you back because you're
56:54
Speaker 1: a killer, But we'll say goodbye. We'll say goodbye off
56:57
Speaker 1: air in a moment, but for the minute, thanks so
56:59
Speaker 1: much for come and have a chat with us on
57:01
Speaker 1: typ We really appreciate it.
57:02
Speaker 2: I've been a pleasure, Craig, and I'm good luck with
57:05
Speaker 2: your training teast sounds like you can be doing. Thank you, Mark.
57:09
Speaker 2: It'd be rude for me to have a favorite on
57:11
Speaker 2: typ but I think I just have one. I think
57:15
Speaker 2: Mark's just Yeah, you're amazing. I love that. Well, I've
57:18
Speaker 2: got more poems I can share next time.
57:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, stay there, mate, we'll say goodbye. Thanks everyone. Now
57:25
Speaker 1: you've got lots of things to action, because that was
57:28
Speaker 1: fantastic