Latest / Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul / **BONUS EPISODE** Turning Adversity into Art: Deborah Weed on Creativity, Healing, Self-Worth, and Paisley the Musical!

Transcript

**BONUS EPISODE** Turning Adversity into Art: Deborah Weed on Creativity, Healing, Self-Worth, and Paisley the Musical! · Healing Her Story with Riva Jean-Paul

• 1:38
  SPEAKER_04: Hey love.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: Before we begin today's conversation, I wanted to take a moment to orient you.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: Today's conversation is a bonus episode.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_04: One last conversation on creativity that honestly wasn't really entirely up to me.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: It was so interesting to hear the divine unfolding and timing of today's conversation.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_04: And it felt like it really needed to be here this week.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: So please enjoy one last conversation on creativity as we close out Leo season and we'll begin our shift into Virgo season and our new focus in next week's episode.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: Hello everyone.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to today's episode of the Healing Her Story podcast.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_04: I am very excited to be here with you today with another incredible guest episode by another amazing woman who just serendipitously and divinely landed into my inbox one day.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: As I shared or will share in a future episode, so you'll hear the story twice.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_04: One evening I was doing some journaling in bed, and I had just done a feng shui adjustment actually, not too long before this happened.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_04: And it involved me putting some crystals kind of underneath where I sleep to help kind of like amplify the intentions that I was bringing in.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_04: And as I've been working on the podcast and envisioning what I want to create with the podcast, I've been reaching out to guests who I think would be a good fit and haven't been having the best of luck, which is okay.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_04: I I get a lot of those emails too, and I don't always respond to them if I don't think it's the right fit.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_04: So not taking it personal, and was also just getting curious about how I can maybe do things differently and how can I go about connecting with women who are aligned with the work that we're doing here on the show.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_04: And so I just wrote it in my journal one night, and then literally the very next day, I had two emails, one from this woman who we'll be speaking to today, and then another one from um another woman who will be on the show next week.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: So this feels like a very divine conversation.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_04: And in addition to that whole experience, I had just been thinking or I had a download kind of come in as I was working out one day about the connection between theater and healing and trauma.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, oh, I I would love for someone to come on and talk about this.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: And then there you were.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: So it just feels again, just very divine.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm really excited to be joined by Deborah Weed today, storyteller, producer, and creator of musicals and movements that ignite self-worth.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: From her award-winning child's book and show The Luckiest Penny, to her upcoming stage production, Paisley the Musical, which I'm very excited about.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: Deborah uses theater as a tool for healing and empowerment.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_04: After a life-altering misdiagnosis that left her bedridden for years, she discovered a new calling, helping others reclaim their power, creativity, and joy through story.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: Her work blends artistry, imagination, and transformation, reminding us that we are all far more valuable than we may realize.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_04: Deborah, welcome to the show.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, that was so beautiful.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, tell me more about that person.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_04: That was wonderful.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: Wonderful.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Deborah, can you tell us a little bit about your story, please?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, where do I begin?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's always the question.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: I guess, I guess I'll start it at the very beginning.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: So when I was a little girl, I was so sweet and sensitive.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I, as I grew, I was like, I'll show you.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because when everybody's saying you're so sensitive, the way that I heard it was, that's a really bad thing.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: So to prove how amazing I am, I ended up as the director of development for Citibank, 19 branches.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I also worked on a$26 million pavilion with a Disney and Universal consultants for and Tejan Korea for Tia Motors.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: So pretty cool, from sensitive to powerhouse, right?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: One would think.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: One would think.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: However, it when I was especially in Citibank, I never smiled.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was using uh the power, false power, to try to over, over, you know, like go over the sensitivity and leave that behind.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I had the look, I had the shoulder pads, I had the heels, I had the dress, I had the suit.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: But what I didn't have was the smile.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: My heart was not lit up.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure Spirit was like, okay, we got to do something with this one.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it better be drastic because she's got to learn some stuff.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_03: So what happened for me was that all of it wasn't all of a sudden.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: This had been happening for a while, but I'm bedridden and this is going on for three years.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: And the first doctor I go to says, you have MS, and it's probably in your brainstem, and they won't find it until after you die.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, okay, now how do I heal that?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I go to the next doctor, and the next doctor says, You have Luke Eric's disease, but we won't know until it manifests.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, okay, what do I do about it?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: I go to the third doctor, and he says, it's all in your head.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Now I have to explain the the extent of the physical and pain that I was in and the weakness.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: The pain that I was in felt as if I was giving birth every day.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_03: It was excruciating.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted out of life, out of the pain, out of everything.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: The emotional pain was because I had so many people, like like people around me, even my lawyer husband, was like, Well, if if doctors are saying different things, you must not be telling the truth because you look good.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: Even though I'm saying with my words what's transpiring for me.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm abandoned emotionally and I'm in excruciating pain.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: And this goes on for three long years.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: And the weakness, I literally couldn't get, you know, it I was very hard to stand.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then I learn about a 1943 pure copper penny that can be worth a million dollars.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I have all this creativity, I want to make a difference, and I'm thinking about this penny, thinking, well, you know, if hardly anybody would go over and pick it up because they think it's worthless and I'm feeling worthless, and yet if a penny can be worth that much, how might how much might I be worth?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I've got a lot of time in bed, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I've always done I've always done theater ever since I was like 16.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: I've always been, you know, concocting all kinds of things because my best expression and my happiness expression is taking people on a journey rather than lecturing.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I decide that I'm going to write a story about the penny.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: But in this story, as I'm lying in bed, I'm thinking of Alistair.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_03: And Alistair is perfect.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: He's never been touched.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: He's in a plastic case, and he knows that he's worth a million dollars.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: And they're at an auction, so he's gonna prove it to this other penny over there that's a little tarnished.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Henry, on the other hand, like myself, like many of us, has been in a garbage can, he's been somebody's lucky penny, he's been on the street alone, he's been on a wild roller coaster ride, he's had a lot of experiences, and he's not perfect.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the auction takes place, and the uh Alistair is sold for lots and lots of money, but he needs to go in a silver case for the rest of his life.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: Lucky him, lucky, lucky him, silver bucks, and then there's uh Henry, and Henry is bought by a grandfather who brings it home to his grandson.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: His grandson Tommy takes a look at it and says, Grandpa, this must cost you a million dollars.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_03: And grandpa's like, well, why, Tommy?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, Because it was born the same day that you were born every year.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so I started to create a musical and I promised myself that if I got out of this mess somehow, somehow, I was gonna create the book and the musical to inspire, especially little kids.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because how do you teach a child what self-worth means?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: And this was through the eyes of two pennies, was perfect.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I finally go to a doctor who takes my blood and he says, Deborah, you should have been dead.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: You your iron is between a three and a six, depending, you know, he checked it a couple of times.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's supposed to be a 15.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: He said, You should have been dead.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because when you have no iron, that's like no red blood cells.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_03: And he found a tumor the size of a grapefruit behind my uterus, and it was pushing on my backbone.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: And every time, trigger warning, every time I had to go to the bathroom, yeah, that was the feeling of giving birth.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, so when they found it, yeah, and I was able to take care of that piece, because I had guessed I had known I had been hemorrhaging, but you know, a lot of times women are told things like it's perimenopause, don't worry about it, don't think about it.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: So they messed up, it's all in your head.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so essentially I learned very, very clearly that there's a difference between self-esteem and self-worth.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Self-esteem is me at Citibank going, Wow, 19 branches, I'm so cool.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's like what I do, it's what you do, but if you're not able to do it anymore, guess where your self-esteem goes?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Self-worth is how much I believe that I'm worth.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: And this was the beginning of my journey, not the end.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's many more things that have happened, but from that, I was uh determined to share stories of self-worth in a very creative, dynamic way because I don't like boring.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: I hate boring.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so um I became the founder of the Self-Worth Initiative.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the beginning of my story.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, what a journey you've been on, Deborah.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thanks so much for sharing all of that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: And I love just the creative approach to the situation that you found yourself in and how you went to writing this really creative story with the pennies and the musical.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's just incredible.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_04: And you're so right.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's an important lesson that we do need to instill in children, especially in this day and age with social media and the internet, and everyone's so worried about how we're perceived, and we're not always told to check in with how we feel about ourselves.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it's a beautiful theme and a beautiful message you have.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's so well put.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and so interesting to hear about your experience with Western medicine too.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_04: I know that's not the focus of our conversation today, um, but I do want to name it because it is it is a theme that I hear a lot in Women That Come to Me, and just in the conversation we were having earlier, um, we being me and one of the other guests that's gonna be coming on next week, we were talking about the same thing about how women are just not really met and attuned to um more often than not in Western medicine.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: And it's it's it's truly heartbreaking.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really happy to hear that you found someone who listened to you and didn't dismiss you and looked a little bit deeper to figure out what the hell was going on with you.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and this has happened.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: I have had the strange things three times in my life.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: This was the first one, and I learned a lot along the way.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I want to address that just for a second.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: Men don't go to doctors, right?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because they're not so tuned into their body.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: So when they go into a doctor, the doctor is like, oh, this must be real.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_03: Look, this guy wouldn't come to me unless it's real.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: A woman, on the other hand, she's hysterical.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: Because she's attuned to her body and she knows what's going on, duh.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I am, I I want to change that too because I know how it has hurt me.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I also know how some people have support systems and some people have nobody.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I sometimes think that the emotional abandon, whatever you want to call it, is worse than anything anybody could feel.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, emotional neglect is very much a type of trauma that um it's not really talked about as much, but it is very hurtful, it's very painful, and it affects everyone differently.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: Now, someone who, you know, maybe has certain genes and different history and different different background may not respond the same way as someone who, you know, has maybe had more adverse experiences and has more generational trauma.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's kind of where I fell in myself.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, so it's it's a big piece, and just going through something with someone makes all of the difference.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: All the difference.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's switch gears a little bit.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_04: Again, I know we weren't here to talk about that today, but I thought it was important to name.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: But I'm really excited to hear and curious to hear about your creativity.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: And it's fascinating to hear that you've been creating performances since childhood.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm wondering what ignited your love for storytelling and performance so early on.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: I get bored easy.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: I think that I think that we all have a gift and creativity, it comes from the dumb divine.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's always channeled.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even think it, you know, I I know a lot of people say that, but I really believe that about me.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: When something comes down like poof, and then it's like it's not even me.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I so I think that I'm an open vessel with that.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: What I was naturally as a child was kind of a social worker/slash creative person, and that's who I am in in theater or whatever I'm creating.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: I care so profoundly about people.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that sometimes song and story, I mean, it resides in you.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like if you how many of us are always singing somewhere over the rainbow?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Why?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: What does it mean?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Why do we do it over and over and again?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And why do we do it when we have that feeling?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just like, because it's associated with a story.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I like we're talking now, which is wonderful.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm hoping, you know, I pray every night.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm gonna cry.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: I pray every night that when I put my head on the pillow that I touch one person, and if I touch one person, that's that's a great day.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but one, you know, one day, I mean, I've done so many productions for children and for families.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm going for the big leagues.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going for the big leagues now.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: But it's because I know the power of story and yeah, like you said, it it it lives in our body.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's something that's so um ancient and so um, yeah, just old, something that we've been doing since the beginning of time, really.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: We've been singing and dancing and and creating, and it reminds me of um something that a professor shared with me.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_04: She had us look at cavemen art and we watched this whole documentary on it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: And it was fascinating.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_04: But what stood out to me most was the point that she made about it, what that was like in these, in this day, and that during that time, not this day and age, but back then when you had to find water and you had to hunt animals and you had to like build a shelter, and we didn't have all these modern conveniences that we have now.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: People still made time for art.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Ah, you're right.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_02: They still made time for it.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's like the tiger is chasing me.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh, wait, let me draw.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's kind of my life.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of my life right here.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_04: So it's it's so important.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think we all, like you said, we all have this innate desire to create, whether you know, you identify as an artist or whether it's theater or drawing or a garden or cooking, but creativity is something that is so inherent to to all of us.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I have thought a lot about that, and I think for me, I've you know, I've had I've had a lot of trauma in my life, and it's almost like picture it as this big boulder, okay?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_03: Big gigantic boulder that was stuck inside me because nobody told me to really feel my feelings.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: I heard the positive thinking thing, so it was like, be positive, don't hurt.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then if I'm hurting, push it down, don't let anybody see it, do that kind of stuff.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: So big boulder.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: But creativity is like almost water, mana from the universe, and it washes, it just like it like takes that boulder and it smooths it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, maybe it's taken a long time.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: It takes a little bit, maybe it's becoming a pebble.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that that's what creativity does for us.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: But my dad taught me something very important, and I think I should share that now.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: My dad was kind of a sage, and he always was really creative, he always had creative solutions for me.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, So I'm gonna I'm gonna play with you a little bit here.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think is the quasi-emotion that stops everybody um most?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Fear.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's what everybody says, it's fear.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: He said, No, it's disappointment.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: And let me tell you why.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Let me tell you why, or let me tell you what he said why.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I kind of was like, good point.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: He said that when you're excited, let's say we're creative, we're kids, or whatever it might be, and we're trying, we're doing something creative, and then the adrenaline is running, and then dwarphins are running, and we're feeling really good until we hit the wall, and then when we hit the wall, all those feel-good emotions get depleted.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they just kind of go out of us.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: But we pick ourselves up and we're like, I'm gonna try again, and we do it again, and we have the emotions and they're really feeling good, and then we hit another wall.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: If we hit wall after wall after wall after wall, unconsciously, we don't know that what we don't like, it's not the fear, it's the well, kind of, but it's the chemical reaction in our body being depleted so much so that we never want to feel it again.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, and because we don't want to feel it again, we never try again.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I'm like, Dad, that's like pretty heavy.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you get around that?
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: And he explained, but that is the fake it till you make it, yeah, but it's really body chemistry.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if you can kind of like understand where you're at, and you can go, oh man, does that feel terrible?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Then you might be able to, if you understand it consciously, you might be able to say, ooh, depletion of chemicals feels really bad, but I'm gonna do it anyways.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna get out there anyways.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: I had never um had it explained in that way.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_04: And it does make a lot of sense that disappointment would be what's kind of holding us back versus fear.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because yeah, I mean, no one, no one, everyone wants to feel good.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: At least that's what I think.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: I think we all are are striving towards how can I feel my best?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes what feels the best or what we think feels the best, or what feels best in that moment, is avoiding that depletion, as you said.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's interesting to think about it in a bio, um, yeah, in a biological way.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, my dad, I mean, he gave me so many of these, it's like astounding.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: I've helped so many my friends like sharing what my dad shared with me because, and maybe that's where the crazy Creativity came in.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: I just was raised by, you know, Yoda.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yoda, Yoda and the Pop.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's wonderful.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_04: I I love that you have such a wise um yeah, figure in in your childhood.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_04: It's important.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'm I'm curious after your devastating misdiagnosis and years being bedbridden, what would you say transformed your worthless penny into an emblem of worth?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_04: And can you walk us through that shift from this despair and maybe even that disappointment into something that was meaningful?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I just I you know I I felt as if it was really inspiration, divine inspiration.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because to try, if I sat there with a six-year-old and said, Let me tell you what self-worth is, they would be like, huh?
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: What did I kind of listen?
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I gotta go play.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: But the whole the best part, and this is really important for me, the best part of the production wasn't the production, it was the talk back after.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because we'd uh I asked the kids, okay, like which one is was uh um more valuable, like which one would you want to be?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: And some kids shoot at their hands, Alistair, I'd have all the money in the world.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't say it like I'm saying it so sophisticated, but you know, basically like that.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had a lot of toys.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd be like, oh, really?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: So if you were in your room, there was no wrong answer.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: If you were in your room for the rest of your life and you were surrounded by toys, but you could never go out, that would make you happy.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: And then another kid, oh no, no, no, no, it was Henry.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Henry had the love, and you like when I asked one little boy, um, but you know, another question I would ask is what makes you feel lucky?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: One little boy comes up and he's just a little guy and he goes, I don't live in the woods.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, okay, it's random.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: You're right, you don't, you're so lucky.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: So like listening to them try to conceptualize on their own and mold the story into what was for them was probably the most, I don't want to say the most entertaining, the most profound part of the production and what it was always meant to be.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I could say I guess it's because the whole idea that a penny, something totally we wouldn't even pick up.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: And that's how I felt.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: It was the perfect, I guess it was the perfect metaphor for my life and the way to explain it.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it got me excited enough to, you know, like after I went through the process to, you know, do the hysterectomy and everything else that they had to do, you know, then then I could move on to something that was profound.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: I love how you said that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_04: You really felt like it was just divine inspiration, and I can hear and feel that little that little spark.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I I recognize that within myself.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: I know when I get a little spark that really like ignites me and and moves me in a certain way where I'm not even really the one consciously making choices about things, it's kind of just all unfolding and happening.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really hearing that in your process too.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like a movement.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, you I'm creating a movement, but it is a movement.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's like moving energy.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I love to hear all the reactions for the kids as well.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know if I've shared this with you.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_04: I think I might have, but I I work part-time as a teaching artist, and so I work with kids quite a bit.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to share the music of the luckiest man.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's one song.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Please, I would love to use it in my classes.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's one song in there, but I I don't sing very well.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I have professional, I am not a professional actor, okay?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I might even forget my lyrics today, but one of the favorite songs that they liked.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want me to give you a little Sure?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you feel okay.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: And if it sounds really bad, or if I forget the lyrics, just bear with me because I'm on to the next musical.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: But here's how uh this is the one that the kids liked.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: This is where Henry is being thrown into the garbage can.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: P you, P you, what am I gonna do?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: P you, P you, what am I gonna do?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm stuck in a smelly garbage can, but am I really stuck?
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_03: Will I turn and will I change my life?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm stuck in a smelly garbage can and stinky inside here.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be brave and unafraid.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'll triumph over here.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_03: Queer, I'll do the can can I can do anything.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: Can I do the con with a butter plan?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love it, yeah.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_03: I just had my singing debut.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: No tomatoes, no tomatoes.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, I love that.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I would I would love to be able to share some of that um music and maybe even the story with the kids.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_04: Did you write a a book for this first one?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: I did a book and a musical, and and uh and it was actually professional singers.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: But but the whole, you know, the whole magic of you know, there's another song.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, there's a it's beautiful.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's got the funny and the fun and the you know, like the other song for for Alistair when he's stuck in the box.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, in a box, I will stay in a box.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: I can't play hip hip parade.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, now I'm sorry.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: You should not start unless you know you know all your idea, right?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so cool.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so so for that production, it sounds like kids viewed it a lot.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: Where did you run?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, New York and Miami.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, New York and Miami for thousands of kids in their families, tremendously successful.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_04: Very cool, yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: And so did you partner with an organization or did you I did one of them was SUNY uh university, okay, and um there were a lot of kids who like I seem to gravitate to kids who are on special needs because um for them they feel like that penny.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so SUNY was like working with me for that, and uh uh another organization called Xylophone, and then and then just random, you know, shows everywhere.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: So it was just a really oh feel-good thing.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_04: Wonderful.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_04: Well, really exciting to hear about kind of yeah, just where this all started, and now you're kind of moving into the big leagues and and doing this next iteration.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm curious kind of where that creative spark for your wider mission came from as well.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Paisley, the last uh Paisley's Last Quill is something that I wrote and started actually in 2014.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um one of the things that I noticed for myself is that I was giving away my power and I had no voice, as we've mentioned before.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, that was excruciating.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_03: I say something and it goes, No, that's not true.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's not, you know, and I realize that we don't get stuck because of fear.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: We get stuck because we give our power away quill by quill.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I needed another metaphor, I needed another character, and this is where Paisley comes in.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: I needed something that was very, very visual, where a person would immediately get the idea of giving one's power away.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what better character than a porcupine?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: And the reason why is because porcupines are supposed to put their quills up to protect themselves, right?
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_03: But my porcupine, Paisley, she dreams of being an animal fashion designer.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_03: But in the animal fashion world, she must give away her quills to Zavanna, a diva, who is like a couture uh goddess in the fashion forest, and use those quills as pins to pin up her concepts, her designs, not Paisley's.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: So Paisley is a porcupine pleaser, like many of us, and she goes around trying to make it good for everybody else until she gives away all of her quills except for one.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's what happens with the last quill that makes this story so powerful.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: So I created a children's book, Paisley's Last Quill, and it got all five stars, and the kids, oh my gosh, the you know, I'd have mothers saying that the little one, you know, a little girl would sleep with the book because they loved Paisley so much.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: And it actually took me a year to illustrate it because even though I had been I have many incarnations, but I had been an award-winning artist, I had never done this kind of thing, but I had always thought a musical.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: So I was like, okay, this is the template, this is the golden thread.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know when I get to it, but this is the golden thread.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: And the mothers, the mothers came back to me and they said, This isn't for our daughters, this is for us.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like ding, ding, ding, ding.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_03: But I wasn't ready to do anything.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, maybe the child another children's production, and I have done animation.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: I have a little YouTube thing with all the animation with songs on that for kids.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I always dreamed of doing something to the scale of Wicked.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: I look at Wicked, it's like, oh, the plaguing touches my heart.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's it just has everything I'm looking for, and the magical realism was so exciting.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so here's the truth of the matter.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: I've been hit over the head so many times with trauma, really rough trauma.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: I talked about one.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: There's it keeps on going.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: I think that it's because I need to understand profoundly the human condition.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that there was a reason, you know.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that this is a punishment.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think that this is actually shining in my soul.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: And um now, after COVID and a couple of other health things that happen, what do I have to lose?
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Go for Broadway.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like I have the 14 to 40 million dollars yet.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: But what I do have is massive amounts of creativity and a vision because what I want uh an audience member to experience is watching Paisley literally give away her quills, have songs that resonate with the heart of what this feels like until you're down to the last bit of you, and then what it's gonna take to come back.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm excited to see this production, Deborah.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's gonna be great.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: The first stage is I'm putting out a and creating right now um the uh like a conceptual five-song album.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and oh my gosh, I won't even have to say anything, I'll just listen because it really brings to life, you know, the whole production, and you get to feel the characters, and I think it's gonna blow people.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I should say.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see what happens.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I love it.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I love the the concept and the story about giving your power away and that being representative of the quills.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_04: I I feel like it's it's very timely, as I know from when kind of what I've observed, there are these groups of women who are kind of wanting to take their power back.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_04: And how beautiful to be able to see themselves in that story.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm excited, I'm excited.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: We're all in Broadway with nobody getting there.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm also looking, that's another thing.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um also uh Jonathan Larson, he did rent and he got random people.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_03: They weren't like professional actors and actresses, and they've been to they became like a family and they're together still.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm looking for the next idea of Munzel.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: I've got something on my website that it's like if you're a singer, if you're a dancer, if you're a producer, if you're a writer, if you're an investor, if you're a producer.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, contact me because I want to hear about you because you never know, you know, where as as I move forward and the train really starts to, you know, chug along, there's gonna be people that I'll discover that are gonna be just totally hand up.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: I'm already like thinking, I I I mean, I'm not uh I'm not involved in the theater so much, but I do work for an a nonprofit arts organization out here in Sacramento.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, one of the women who I work with, she's my colleague and and also my manager, she runs the teaching artist company that I'm on.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I know she's got a son who works professionally in New York, and he's got a girlfriend, and she's currently on Broadway.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: And so, like, I just feel like there's there's there's some connections that could potentially be made for sure.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: You never know.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's you never know.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's sometimes like everybody when they put together a production like this, they usually go to a producer, ask or an investor, ask for the money, do it a certain way, and I'm like, yeah, I've had so many things happen to me in my life.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Forget that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I want the train moving, and let's see who's out there.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you know let's talk about the miracles that happen at the end of the day because that even makes it more rich.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: Now I'm curious for the the actors and actresses who you who will eventually be involved in this production, and maybe ones that have been involved in the past.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_04: Now, as they're kind of like telling this story, uh is there anything that you're witnessing in them as they're kind of playing the characters and and playing out the story in real life?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I I haven't what you're talking about, workshopping right now.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let me step back.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_04: You know, here I don't know if you remember here.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, hang on just a moment.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_04: My um Siri started talking.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: I think we're okay now.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Siri's in a Siri is auditioning.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: Siri is Siri, I'm sorry, but there's no place for you.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my goodness.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um sorry about that.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: Continue, please.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I forgot where we were.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I guess I guess what I'm wondering is is if if an actor or an okay, okay, I got you is yeah, playing out the story.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I was talking about hair.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: Are they being moved right away?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so let me tell you my strategy, different than most.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, hair was a very, very popular uh move uh music a long time ago, and they started with an album, they didn't start with a production.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, they started with songs first, and I am modeling that.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going with the songs first, put that out there, then get the actors and actresses, mainly actresses, to workshop this in a certain way.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because um, to have the actors and actresses workshop it first and do the traditional route, which would mean, okay, I mean, you know, you're you're working that can take years and years, like like seven, ten years.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: But if trying to I well, let's just see what happens, you know.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_03: If the music comes out first, so to answer your question specifically, yeah, are the singers being touched?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right, yes, yes, they are crying, yeah, they are like, oh my gosh, this is speaking to me.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: They are like, Can I audition for the part already?
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: Even though it's just for the album.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: So absolutely positively.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Great question.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, that was kind of one spark that ignited this conversation because I know that there have been studies that do show the benefits of being engaged with theater and improv.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: Actually, just in the just in the episode I was we were just recording right before yours, we were talking about um the woman on the show, her name's Nicole.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_04: She mentioned Stephen Colbert, and he, I guess, has had a pretty extensive um trauma history, and he found a lot of healing through improv actually, and through theater.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_04: So um, yeah, there really is something to it.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: Studies have shown it can improve cognitive function and also reduce symptoms of trauma as well.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so you just stepped into it.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Can I step into it with you?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay the second one of the second things that happened to me is I got gadolinium poisoning.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: And gadolinium poisoning is like when they do a contrast and they they're you know, they're putting it in your vein so that they can see things.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's a radioactive material.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, wow.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: With me, they missed the vein, they put it in my arm.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: My arm blew up like this, and I got deadly second things.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: I've had three.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, second one for this one.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_03: I go to an acupuncturist.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going somewhere with this.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and the acupuncturist is putting needle, maybe it's a because I have paces.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, maybe in the back of my putting needles in me and needles in me.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, Deborah, this isn't gonna work.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not gonna work.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Now I'm like literally once again dying, not being able to move, thinking, Oh my gosh, this is gonna be life.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: It's really toxic.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's like mainlining mercury.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Scary, yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: Very scary.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: And he says, Okay, what I want you to do is I want you to take improv classes.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, you got to be kidding me.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_03: How can I can't even walk?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Improv classes.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, Yes, because you're too creative and you have all that energy, and I could put all the needles of the world in you, but it's gotta something's gotta move.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Something's gotta move.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: My husband would take me to improv, like practically carry me into the classes, and I laugh because I'm a more producer than I I'm not on that side, that's like for yet.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I'm laughing at myself, and I'm laughing at them, the other people, and I laughed my way back to health.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it's so interesting of all the things in the world that you should pick.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's there's really something to it, and um, it's something that I've experienced that laughter that you said.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_04: I get I I'm not an actress by any means.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, anyway, I'm not, I'm not either.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_04: I can't I can't, I can't, I don't know.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_04: I've never really tried hard enough, I guess, to to learn, but I feel like I would have a hard time holding character and I would just probably start laughing.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_04: That's what I think would happen.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_04: Because that's what happens in improv.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right, exactly, exactly.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so anytime I've gone to a class and we play the improv games, they're just hysterical games.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think I went up whenever I've done theatrical productions, I think I like the warmups, which are kind of like improv games.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: More than anything else, I'd be so like hysterical.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we'd be throwing animal sounds and doing all that stuff.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, look at you adults being ridiculous.
• 43:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's beautiful.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_04: There really is something to it.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I love that you picked up on that as well, and your acupunctures picked up on it too.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_04: That's great.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I would be here if it hadn't been, you know, it's like it's so interesting, my journey, because it's like so uh different.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's it's interesting where it kind of takes us and and where we end up and and where we can end up when we really begin to kind of like listen um and trust those little breadcrumbs that come in the form of an acupuncturist telling you to go to an improv class sometimes.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's beautiful.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: There's also been um some other studies that have shown that drama-based interventions significantly reduce trauma-related symptoms.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, that's that's the one that I just referenced.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: There's another one right below it.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: I was wanting to reference here.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, other studies that promote um that, excuse me, that theater promotes emotional processing.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_04: There we go.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: Empathy and a sense of belonging.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: So could you could you speak to that a little bit?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_03: I actually got goosebumps on that one.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_03: I actually got goosebumps on that one.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's so true, that's so well put because it is processing.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: When you take on a character, like I know for anybody who can see the characters behind me, these are all animal top models, and they all have totally different personas.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: Everything from a white tiger who's like, you know, fierce, he doesn't want to be prissy, kind of a mean girl.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, the she has to wear the the glowworm and gold fin gowns and is like, get me out of this thing now to Ikru, who's an elephant, and she's a plus size model with a plus size heart.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_03: And Savannah keeps on trying to have her eat celery and work with a parrot to get smaller.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_03: And it's sort of like, Noah, why should I shrink to your expectations?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: Why can't I just Just be me.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: So trying those characters on and going through the journey of uh how we perceive people, body positivity.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_03: I picked fashion, not because of the Devil Wars product, because I see that it's having to, you know, it's coming back again.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I never knew it would when I started this.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's because clothes hide a lot of our vulnerabilities who who we are.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it's under it's what's underneath the dress that really counts.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's really what's important.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times, you know, the couture and the fashion world, it's you know, it's all about perception rather than reality.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_03: So to if anybody, all the actresses or actors, when they try these on, like Zavanna, Zavanna.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I love Zavanna.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_03: Zavanna is such a delicious diva.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: She really is, you know, but she has vulnerabilities too that we're gonna see because you know, she was picked on.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that will be revealed, but she was picked on so much that it's sort of like my outside, what I create.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: And out here is what you need to see.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: Never look inside, never look beyond that.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_03: And if you do, that wasn't a zero, zero, zorro, by the way.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_03: That was like a I don't know what was that.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was a Zavanna move.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, yes, so I guess the actresses that we'll be trying this on are going to be able to process it because in in truth, I'm all of these people.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: We all are, they're all archetypes of different of different things.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: And Paisley is more me than anybody else, you know, all of them, but I have each aspect.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, when I when I cast somebody, when I cast those people, they will have that aura and they'll be able to try it on, but it might not be who they are, and they might be able to learn something too about, you know, putting their guard down and being more powerful.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the first thing.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: What was the second part of it that you uh said?
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because it was so astute.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so um, theater promotes emotional processing, empathy, and a sense of belonging.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_04: Belonging.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, belonging.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_03: A couple of times I've done theatrical productions with people who have never acted before, and they were so scared, and it was like, I'll hire.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, when I say, yeah, you come, I'm I'm gonna find a part for you, no matter what it is.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'll make up a part.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I would get letter after letter letter.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I haven't brought this up in in anything else, so I'm kind of getting a little.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_03: I got I would get letters of people that would say, I was gonna commit suicide.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, I was gonna take my life.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like a nobody and a nothing.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_03: And when I was part of this production and was seen and heard and played the games and felt like I was part of something bigger than myself, yes, there was a healing.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_03: So absolutely positively, and I hadn't even thought of that, but you're absolutely correct.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_03: That sense of belonging is uh legendary and will stay forever because you'll never forget.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Then they never have forgotten.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I just got a I just got a um newspaper article from somebody who had been one of my shows from 1989.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_03: 1989, and I just got it.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_04: So wow, that's incredible.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, wow.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you for those um, yeah, those real life examples of of what that really looks like.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: It reminds me of um a client of mine who recently got back into theater.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_04: She used to do it a lot.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I never knew that about her for the length of time that we were working together.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_04: And, you know, the the more work we did and the deeper we got, the more she started kind of wanting to be creative.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_04: And long story short, she she made her way back into theater and she had this role specifically that kind of explored the different archetypes of femininity.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a part where she had to do this big primal scream, and she talked about how empowering and how freeing that was for her, because she wouldn't normally be able to let out that big primal scream and sort of her, you know, day-to-day character, if you will.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_04: But when she was able to step into this role, she could kind of let all of that go and access something that she wasn't otherwise able to.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_04: And she really shared how powerful it was for her to go through that experience.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's so beautiful.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: I absolutely get it.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: So next time we're together, we're gonna invite everybody to do theater and improv right here, right now.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, seriously.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I love just hearing about all of the amazing ripple effects that your work has created and that theater creates.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that you created the quill power movement to help girls claim their power.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_04: What does reclaiming self-work look like in practice?
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I right now I also have quills up.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: That was for the the little girls, and I have quills up for the women.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know how the Me Too movement, it was just like a hashtag, but it spread like crazy.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: Quills Up is is really kind of like that in that I want everybody to take their power back because here's the truth.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: Here is the truth.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody can take your power away.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: You are the one.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: I am the one that gives it away because we think some we want to be loved, or we think somebody has more power than we do.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: We're just like, some of us are like, here, take it, help me take it.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'll have one quilt, no quills, you know, walk around quillless because we have we so want to belong, or we so want to have love, or we so feel like, well, that person knows because they have a lot more experience.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one thing that I've discovered over and over again a person who has heart can can totally triumph over somebody with experience every single time.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_03: So the quills up movement is basically think of the quills, think of what's supposed to protect you, and just know that you don't have to give them away.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: You can in turn, you can keep that, you can keep that strength in you, and you're gonna be so much more powerful.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because I am Paisley, I know what it feels like to give them all away, and I know how uh how devastating it can feel when you feel like they took them from me.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_03: No, nobody did that.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_03: We did because that's what we learned.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, that's usually what it is something that we've learned or a coping strategy that we've created to keep ourselves safe, because like you said, we all just want to feel loved and belong.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_04: That's literally like the the human basic human need is just to be loved and to feel like we belong, and we'll do all sorts of crazy things to try to get there.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, we sure know.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_04: We sure will, yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_04: So, how wonderful to have this story to invite us to kind of unravel from some of all of that and and take our power back one quill at a time.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: One quill at a time, yes, yeah.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_04: And I know that these sort of movements, they not only can they shift individually, they can also shift cultural narratives.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_04: And so I'm I'm wondering if that's something that you feel strongly about too.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you better believe it.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's why like I see the characters all colors, all coming from all different aspects, because the bottom line is we're human.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, these are animals, but don't have PETA come after me because no animal is harmed.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_03: I promise.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, I think that there's so much happening.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Talk about giving power away or misunderstanding each other or whatever it might be.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I do believe that Paisley's also gonna offer uh underlying narrative of that too, because what we see with our eyes is different than what we see with our heart.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and if we can see and smile with our hearts, we're healed.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and let me just throw this in.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: I recently looked up healed, healed means whole.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I thought that healed meant positive.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm positive, I'm healed.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm oh look, look, look, look how po I'm so positive.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm healed.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, healed is whole, healed is anger, healed is rage, healed is sadness, healed is happy, healed is healed.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, healed is whole.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's it's all of us and all of us all of us, yes.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_03: And when we accept all of us, yes, that's when we're healed.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, beautiful, yeah.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_04: And is that part of um the mission that you're you're hoping to bring out with Paisley?
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I can really feel that.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: Well, I'd love to hear a little bit more as we're kind of slowly reaching the hour.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I know you've shared you've got your your casting call out right now.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_04: Is that correct?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_03: Casting call, singer, everybody, producers, investors, just I'm throwing it out there.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: Look, when you don't have, like I said, when you don't have the 14 to 40 million dollars to make it happen, you're just like, hey, I've been through trauma, yeah, like nobody's business, three times, and probably more, actually, many more.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_03: What do I have?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: Broadway is nothing, it's nothing, you know.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_03: So let's see what happens.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see that, you know, you'll look back at this and you'll be like, oh my gosh.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_03: I know, but like I'm in the way of conversation.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: It was so cool.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think, you know, and maybe this is such an adventure for me because I get to meet somebody like you, Riva, where it's like it's where it touches my heart.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm not only doing this, I'm actually talking to people with heart that are really trying to make a difference, that are that close up, that are really trying to protect others, you know.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and wow, what a cool legacy is that.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's that's an amazing legacy.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_04: Very cool.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm wondering what would be the next step from there.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_04: And this may not be something that you know because I know when I work with a project, it all just kind of unfolds.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_04: And people are like, well, how are you gonna do that?
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, don't worry about it.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna figure it out.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just really curious about just this whole process.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so the best thing that could possibly happen for me, like, you know, it's so funny because right now I'm the first person, right?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_03: But what I really love more than anything is sitting in the audience and looking at the audience, not you know, forget I I know what that looks like.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I want to see the faces, I want to see the movement in somebody, I want to see that they're that that they're literally carrying a million-dollar song on their heart because when they're down, they're like, oh, like gravity, you know, it's like you get, you know, how it's like we all pump up and yeah, it's like those songs that really resonate with us that are like that.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I I want that quilt uh quills up movement to touch so many women.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, like like discussions and conversations, and let's get real.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: What does it look like when we've given away our power?
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe to the medical.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's the medical community.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and to me, it's my family and friends who were like, you know, doubters.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, it's like when you're giving away that power, you and you feel powerless, you feel tiny.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I'm gonna share one other thing because this is an interesting thing.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've done many things in my life, but one of them, a lot well, I I've done uh I was a PR director for a while, and I had a uh um like a uh, you know, I I guess they'd call it a mental hospital back then.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they wanted a great article.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, oh gosh, what am I gonna come up with?
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_03: And you're gonna love this, Rebo, you're gonna love it.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_03: So I go in there and I'm looking around.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: What am I gonna do that's really gonna make an impression?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I look on the walls in the cafeteria and there's artwork everywhere, and there's two pictures on here that just stunned me, stopped me cold.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_03: And one picture is this little itty bitty guy, and under like like you know, the pages blank, except a little itty bitty, and it says fear, and then the same person, a child, or whoever drew this, has a monster red, it looks big, it looks ugly, and it says anger, and I got it.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I got that the anger was trying to protect this little itty beady guy behind it, and it touched me, and I was like, okay, that's the story I'm gonna go for.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna go for the story of everybody out there, have your children draw something and look at the drawings because they mean something.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_03: They do.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_03: And when you see it, ask questions because something huge might be revealed.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what happened?
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: I got a 12-page spread in what was Tropic magazine at the time.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like Parade Magazine, you know, they don't have it anymore, but it was kind of like the the all-color magazine that was inside papers a long time ago.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_03: 12 pages of artwork because that's the other thing that I've learned, at least with PR and everything else.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, visuals are everything.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, wow, powerful.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_04: I love that.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_04: What an incredible experience to be able to learn about whoever the creator was in that way.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_04: And you're so right, like it art really is a way that we can communicate, and and sometimes we don't even really know what we're communicating until we're done.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we're like, oh, that's interesting.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know whoever did that, whether they associated what they really had done.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: But for me, it was so obvious because that's how I felt.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: It was like, oh, that's what anger is.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_03: You mean it's this little guy going, oh, please, please don't hurt me, don't hurt me.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Monster, monster, yeah, please, please don't hurt me.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry if I scared you.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_04: No, not at all.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, that's wonderful.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I love what you said about letting kids draw and and express themselves.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's really important.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I know for me, whenever I'm making art, I really learn about myself too.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so I think that's important for kids as well to continue learning about themselves and in creative ways so that when they become adults, they are more um aware and more attuned to their own needs and their desires and and who they want to be in the world.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_03: Did you do the drawings behind you that I'm seeing?
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I didn't do the um small squares, those were done by another artist, but I did the one up here.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_04: This is watercolor and micron pin.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, it's beautiful.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_04: And then I did make this um paper sculpture over here, too.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, that's gorgeous! I love making, so I've got a lot of stuff now to show you the last paper.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's a great t-shirt.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_03: I love making.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody will get it.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_03: It's like I think, I think, yeah, I do.
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love making, right?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's fun, and there's just something, I don't know, just so intuitive and and freeing about the process of and sacred, yeah, self-creating.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_04: Well, Deborah, do you have any um final words or or wishes that you would like to leave with our listeners today?
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_03: I do.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_03: If there's anybody out there that's going through a hard time right now, and it's like you feel like it's the end of the world, and I have felt that many times.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to let you know that I profoundly care.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: But if I could hug you, I would.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I love that.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_04: Really sweet.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_04: Sending hugs back to you too, Deborah.
• 1:03:03
  unknown: Okay.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we'll be able to um link your information and maybe your casting call in the show notes.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_04: Is there anything else that we can leave with listeners or ways that they can contact you or get in touch or follow your journey?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think that if you have a little girl, then Paisley's last quill is that you know, you can get it online everywhere.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_03: Got all five stars.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_03: If you have a little boy, then the luckiest penny.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it we mainly when we did the musicals, we bring boxes and boxes and boxes of the books, but the book is just so sweet.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are the adult, um, paisley the musical, you can find it at paisleysfashionforce.com.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: And on there is a is like a place where you can put what you do.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: You can if it's like you just want to follow along and see, can she do it?
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_03: Can she do it?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_03: Or so whatever you feel like bringing to the table, I almost feel like it's a global collaboration, and I welcome it all.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yeah.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_04: Wonderful.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we'll put all of that in the show notes.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_04: And and where are you located?
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_04: Just for my own curiosity, Deborah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, get this one.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I live in Jupiter, Florida.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and my last name is Weed.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I am both the grounding and the sky.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my goodness.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_03: So in other words, you can't find me very easily.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_04: An air of mystery to it.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_04: Beautiful.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_04: Well, thanks so much for your your time again today, Deborah.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, really wishing you well along this creative journey.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_04: And um, yeah, please let me know how I can support it.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_04: I would love to see this come into its fullest expression.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think you yeah, you're welcome.