Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #618 The Way That You Move

Transcript

#618 The Way That You Move · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

0:03
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.
0:07
Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers.
0:10
Speaker 1: Now when kids are in those primary school years. It
0:13
Speaker 1: seems that the move has some cognitive impact. That is,
0:17
Speaker 1: the kids thinking they're learning, their ability to concentrate in class,
0:21
Speaker 1: adapt to the new environment, continue with their educational attainment.
0:25
Speaker 3: It can be affected.
0:26
Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
0:29
Speaker 2: and dad.
0:30
Speaker 1: Well, we haven't tried this before. I've been kicked out
0:32
Speaker 1: of the office. We can't record a podcast in the
0:34
Speaker 1: office because there's a new roof apparently going on the building,
0:38
Speaker 1: which has meant that I'm not allowed to be there.
0:41
Speaker 1: And we're trying to record a podcast at home with kids, TVs,
0:45
Speaker 1: washing machines, and who knows what else.
0:49
Speaker 2: Lack.
0:49
Speaker 3: If there's no dogs, it might be.
0:52
Speaker 1: Whipper snippers or building stuff happening nearby.
0:54
Speaker 3: Who knows.
0:55
Speaker 1: It could all go pear shaped. Today on The Happy
0:58
Speaker 1: Families Podcast a conversation in response to a question we
1:01
Speaker 1: had from Powell. Powell asked the question, it looks like
1:04
Speaker 1: you've recently moved. I would like to hear on your podcast.
1:07
Speaker 1: How did you deal with such a significant disruption new school,
1:09
Speaker 1: new friends, knew everything? And does the age of kids
1:12
Speaker 1: play any role here?
1:15
Speaker 3: Powell?
1:15
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your question. You can ask
1:17
Speaker 1: your questions via podcasts at happy families dot com dot a.
1:20
Speaker 1: You podcasts at happy families dot com dot au. Kylie,
1:24
Speaker 1: where do you reckon? We should start here? You you
1:27
Speaker 1: were a child.
1:27
Speaker 3: When you moved.
1:28
Speaker 1: You moved from New Zealand to Did I say that right?
1:33
Speaker 2: New Zealand?
1:33
Speaker 1: That's what I said New Zealand? Was that your stomach? Sorry?
1:40
Speaker 1: I mentioned New Zealand and your stomach starts rumbling when
1:43
Speaker 1: you think of the what do they call it?
1:44
Speaker 3: The kai?
1:45
Speaker 1: You want to have a honey? Gonna get the fish?
1:49
Speaker 3: Right?
1:51
Speaker 1: Ice cream? You moved from New Zealand to Australia when
1:55
Speaker 1: you were ten, Is it about right?
1:57
Speaker 3: Yep?
1:58
Speaker 1: And then you you you were stay although in New
2:00
Speaker 1: Zealand you were stable and in Australia you were stable.
2:03
Speaker 1: Before we talk about research and before we sort of
2:06
Speaker 1: dive into what our experience has been with our children
2:09
Speaker 1: and respond to Powell's question, what would you say that
2:13
Speaker 1: experience was like for you? What are the learnings that
2:15
Speaker 1: come from that few?
2:17
Speaker 2: I struggled desperately as a ten year old, eleven year
2:22
Speaker 2: old coming to a new country. So New Zealand and Australia,
2:26
Speaker 2: there's not a huge amount of cultural difference in comparison
2:29
Speaker 2: to other countries.
2:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, so like if you moved to Asia or something
2:33
Speaker 1: like that, you're going to notice that.
2:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I grew up in a very Polynesian family, right.
2:41
Speaker 2: My mum's marry, my dad's Australian, and so all of
2:44
Speaker 2: her family are Polynesian, and I lived that life. I
2:49
Speaker 2: spent time with the relatives on them at I and
2:53
Speaker 2: I definitely didn't need all of their food, but I
2:56
Speaker 2: was exposed to a very different.
2:59
Speaker 1: Lifestyle cultural shift as well, it really was.
3:02
Speaker 2: And so coming here and feeling the i'm going to
3:06
Speaker 2: say the coldness of Australia comparatively to the emotional availability
3:11
Speaker 2: that Polynesians are for one another was really really hard,
3:16
Speaker 2: and I just I struggled with friendships, I struggled with
3:20
Speaker 2: even education. Australia and New Zealand were on totally different
3:23
Speaker 2: pages and so when I showed up, I felt I
3:25
Speaker 2: was very very far behind. And it took me, i'm
3:30
Speaker 2: going to say a good five years before I even
3:33
Speaker 2: could accept that this was now where I live.
3:36
Speaker 1: How did you feel about the move, like were you
3:38
Speaker 1: were you excited We're like, yeah, we're going to have
3:40
Speaker 1: a new adventure in a new country. Or was there
3:42
Speaker 1: some hesitation, some reluctance to move on your past? I
3:45
Speaker 1: was devastated, right, So that's got to.
3:47
Speaker 3: Play a part in it.
3:48
Speaker 1: Right, when the kids are excited about the move, that
3:50
Speaker 1: would have to changed the overall experience that they have.
3:54
Speaker 2: We're moving to a place outside of my grandparents. I
3:57
Speaker 2: knew no one, I had no friends. I'd come from
4:00
Speaker 2: a massive family of cousins. Every holidays we got together.
4:03
Speaker 2: We had family reunions once a year at Christmas time
4:06
Speaker 2: at my great grandparents' house. There were traditions and you know,
4:10
Speaker 2: connections that I would never see again as a result
4:14
Speaker 2: of the move here.
4:15
Speaker 1: So to underscore this, I mean, this really does answer
4:18
Speaker 1: consistent with what research says at answers Powell's question, and
4:21
Speaker 1: that is that the bigger the move in terms of
4:24
Speaker 1: shifting schools, shifting geographical locations, You've changed climate enormously moving
4:30
Speaker 1: from Auckland to Brisbane. There's also the cultural shift, which
4:35
Speaker 1: is phenomenal, but that social connectivity that you've had completely
4:42
Speaker 1: removed from your life.
4:43
Speaker 2: My best friend lived right next door, right you know,
4:46
Speaker 2: we had a little trail, we didn't have a fence
4:48
Speaker 2: between our yards. All of those things played such a
4:52
Speaker 2: significant role into how I felt as I kind of
4:55
Speaker 2: came into this new place.
4:56
Speaker 1: So if you wered have spin that around it like
4:59
Speaker 1: my experience. So I lived in the same house in
5:01
Speaker 1: Niagara Park on the new Southwest Central Coast until I
5:03
Speaker 1: was in grade six. We moved from Niagara Park across
5:06
Speaker 1: to Erina and I went from Niagara Park Public School
5:10
Speaker 1: to Erina West, which is now I think called Woodport
5:12
Speaker 1: Public School.
5:13
Speaker 3: And when I went.
5:14
Speaker 1: There, we were so excited because we were moving so
5:18
Speaker 1: much closer to the beach. Erina is only five k's
5:20
Speaker 1: from the beach, whereas Niagara Park's like a thirty minute drive,
5:23
Speaker 1: and we were moving into a really big house. It
5:25
Speaker 1: was super duper awesome. And I kind of didn't mind
5:30
Speaker 1: that I was saying goodbye to all of my friends
5:32
Speaker 1: because the adventure in front of us seems so exciting
5:35
Speaker 1: in retrospect. I miss Chris White and Andy Lucas and
5:40
Speaker 1: Jason Huxley, and I mean, I could just keep on
5:43
Speaker 1: naming all the guys. Brett Morris and Ryan Hall. I
5:45
Speaker 1: can still remember all of my buddies from Niagara Park
5:48
Speaker 1: Public School, and I haven't talked to any of them
5:49
Speaker 1: since grade five, grade six, when I left, but I
5:51
Speaker 1: remember them because those relationships were so foundational to my
5:55
Speaker 1: life at that time.
5:56
Speaker 3: It's so deeply enmeshed.
5:58
Speaker 1: In me that I'm sort of surprising myself that I
6:00
Speaker 1: can remember. When I got to Erina West, I made
6:03
Speaker 1: friends pretty quickly, but it just wasn't the same, and
6:05
Speaker 1: I knew I was only going to be there for
6:07
Speaker 1: I think it was nine months, and then I had
6:09
Speaker 1: to go to a new high school. Changing schools was
6:12
Speaker 1: the hardest thing, and I was in the same high
6:14
Speaker 1: school from seven to twelve, but I never fitted in.
6:16
Speaker 1: I never got it to work. So, even though we
6:18
Speaker 1: didn't move house, the shift in school I think one
6:22
Speaker 1: of the most detrimental things that happened to me during
6:24
Speaker 1: my childhood.
6:25
Speaker 3: It absolutely devastated me.
6:26
Speaker 1: And so even if you're not moving, just shifting your
6:28
Speaker 1: child from one school to another, even for the very
6:30
Speaker 1: best of reasons, sometimes it works, other times it's disastrous.
6:35
Speaker 1: And my experience with the school that my parents put
6:38
Speaker 1: me into, it was a fairly posh private school on
6:41
Speaker 1: the New South Wales central coast. That was devastating for me,
6:46
Speaker 1: and it has had lifelong ramifications. I made a couple
6:50
Speaker 1: of friends, a couple of girls who are friends that
6:53
Speaker 1: I've stayed in reasonable contact with even up until today.
6:58
Speaker 3: But it was just awful.
6:59
Speaker 1: I don't have any contact with anybody from the school.
7:02
Speaker 1: It was super, super hard. So that's your experience and
7:06
Speaker 1: my experience. You know what's curious to me, though, is
7:08
Speaker 1: the popular opinion when it comes to moving house. What
7:10
Speaker 1: did most parents say?
7:11
Speaker 2: Everybody? Everybody says it to me all the time. Oh,
7:14
Speaker 2: kids are resilient, they'll get over it.
7:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they'll be fine. They'll be fine.
7:18
Speaker 1: So we've moved with children a number of times, but
7:22
Speaker 1: there are three big moves that our family has done.
7:25
Speaker 1: The first one was monumental, It was massive. So we
7:28
Speaker 1: had a daughter who was in grade one, I think
7:31
Speaker 1: grade two perhaps Chanel. We moved from Brisbane all the
7:35
Speaker 1: way down to Woollongong so that I can pursue my
7:37
Speaker 1: postgraduate studies and watching that happen for her and her
7:41
Speaker 1: little sister Abby, who was just going into her first
7:43
Speaker 1: year of school, that that was really surprisingly hard. For
7:48
Speaker 1: such little kids. We were shocked by how poorly they responded.
7:52
Speaker 1: But we stayed in will and Long for nine years.
7:55
Speaker 3: We created a community.
7:56
Speaker 1: It was an amazing experience, one of the best experiences
7:58
Speaker 1: of our lives. And we just love the whole ill
8:00
Speaker 1: Warror area. Fell in love with the place, fell in
8:03
Speaker 1: love with the people. It was wonderful. But our second
8:06
Speaker 1: move nine years later up.
8:09
Speaker 3: To Brisbane for very very strong, very very good.
8:12
Speaker 1: Reasons, and we don't regret the move, but my goodness,
8:15
Speaker 1: the toll that it took on now six children is
8:20
Speaker 1: not to mention you and I yeah, it's really hard
8:22
Speaker 1: to sort of look back and go, gee, that was hard,
8:25
Speaker 1: especially the kids in their teens. We had a child
8:30
Speaker 1: who was fourteen fifteen that she was the one who
8:33
Speaker 1: really struggled when she went into her first year of
8:35
Speaker 1: school down in Willgong. That was super hard, crazy hard.
8:38
Speaker 1: She didn't forgive us for a long long time.
8:40
Speaker 3: And then the younger.
8:42
Speaker 1: Kids they had mixed reactions, but it was generally hard.
8:45
Speaker 1: And then the third move, the third big one, was
8:48
Speaker 1: just this year when we moved to the Sunshine Coast
8:50
Speaker 1: from Brisbane, and that's been mostly good but surprisingly hard
8:55
Speaker 1: for child number four, who is now fifteen.
9:00
Speaker 3: That age group, again, the.
9:01
Speaker 1: Other kids have actually adapted pretty well. Hasn't been smooth sailing,
9:04
Speaker 1: but it's been okay. I wouldn't say it's been great,
9:07
Speaker 1: but it's been okay. And over time we're now starting
9:09
Speaker 1: to see some settling in and some general improvement. But
9:13
Speaker 1: it's been a tough year for them.
9:16
Speaker 2: So what does the research say. We've obviously shared our experiences,
9:19
Speaker 2: but what's research telling.
9:21
Speaker 1: Us The research? No, No, Remember, this is about averages, right,
9:24
Speaker 1: All of psychological research is about averages. So just because
9:27
Speaker 1: it happens on average doesn't mean it will happen to you.
9:29
Speaker 1: But essentially there's different effects for different ages. Data indicates
9:34
Speaker 1: that younger children are going to be less impacted than
9:39
Speaker 1: older children. They do seem to adapt a little bit easier.
9:43
Speaker 3: But what I find.
9:44
Speaker 1: Quite curious is that if your kids are between birth
9:47
Speaker 1: and that first year of school, birth and kinder or
9:51
Speaker 1: reception or prep or whatever you call it in your state,
9:56
Speaker 1: some data suggests that there can be impeded social emotional outcomes.
10:03
Speaker 1: That is, they struggle a bit socially, their emotions become
10:06
Speaker 1: a little bit more dysregulated. It takes them a bit
10:08
Speaker 1: to get over that, but their cognitive function once they're
10:12
Speaker 1: in school, there's no real impact at all. They seem
10:14
Speaker 1: to be just fine. Whereas when kids are in those
10:17
Speaker 1: primary school years, it seems that the move has some
10:20
Speaker 1: cognitive impact. That is that kids thinking they're learning, their
10:25
Speaker 1: ability to concentrate in class, adapt to the new environment,
10:28
Speaker 1: continue with their educational attainment. It can be affected. It's
10:32
Speaker 1: fairly minimally, but it can be affected. And obviously there's
10:35
Speaker 1: still that ongoing issue with friends. You described it, I
10:38
Speaker 1: described it. We've watched it with our own kids, and
10:40
Speaker 1: it seems to be pretty much universal. It's a really
10:43
Speaker 1: hard thing for kids to move and to have that
10:46
Speaker 1: really substantial shift. The other thing that the research tells
10:49
Speaker 1: us is that the more you move, the more those
10:54
Speaker 1: moves add up towards negative impacts on our kids functioning.
10:57
Speaker 1: Whether it's executive functioning, whether it's cognitive function whether it's
11:00
Speaker 1: social emotional functioning. Regardless of what it is, there's an
11:03
Speaker 1: impact on well being, impact on relationships, impact on schooling.
11:06
Speaker 1: We want to keep those moves toward minimum. And the
11:09
Speaker 1: research also seems to suggest that academic effects of moving
11:14
Speaker 1: are felt pretty much.
11:15
Speaker 3: Straight away, but.
11:18
Speaker 1: They largely fade over the course of a couple of
11:21
Speaker 1: years as the kids get sett or as their relationships develop, schooling,
11:25
Speaker 1: cognitive stuff, learning academics, that all starts, all all the
11:29
Speaker 1: negative effects of the move typically fade within a couple
11:32
Speaker 1: of years.
11:33
Speaker 2: As we've watched each of our kids go through this
11:37
Speaker 2: in different at different stages of their lives and at
11:39
Speaker 2: different ages, what has really stood out to me is
11:44
Speaker 2: just their cognitive processing and the way in which some
11:51
Speaker 2: of our kids have chosen to embrace the change and
11:56
Speaker 2: the adventure of the experience, while others have resist to
12:00
Speaker 2: do it. And it has probably no surprise that the
12:05
Speaker 2: kids with the adventure mindset are the ones that have
12:09
Speaker 2: actually benefited in lots of ways from that move as
12:15
Speaker 2: opposed to the kid who's been resistant.
12:17
Speaker 1: Mindset is so important and helping the kids to be
12:20
Speaker 1: in that mindset. I remember we were sitting in the car.
12:22
Speaker 1: We had three kids that were winging and whining and
12:24
Speaker 1: pretty much crying and saying.
12:25
Speaker 3: This is the worst thing ever. I can't believe we
12:27
Speaker 3: did it.
12:27
Speaker 1: That was when we moved from wooll and Goong to Brisbane,
12:30
Speaker 1: and one of our kids said, well, I'm actually thinking
12:32
Speaker 1: that this is a great opportunity for us to meet
12:34
Speaker 1: new people and to discover new places and have new experiences.
12:39
Speaker 1: And I'm deciding right now that this is going to
12:41
Speaker 1: be a really good experience and I'm just going to
12:43
Speaker 1: put my heart into it and make it work. I mean,
12:45
Speaker 1: they're my words, not hers, But that was essentially the mindset.
12:48
Speaker 1: And I have looked at each other in the car
12:50
Speaker 1: in the car and gone, hell yeah, now can the
12:54
Speaker 1: rest of the kids catch it?
12:55
Speaker 3: And they didn't.
12:57
Speaker 1: That emotion that she felt didn't catch on that mindset,
13:01
Speaker 1: It didn't permeate the whole family as much as we
13:03
Speaker 1: tried to emphasize and encourage it, and the kids just
13:06
Speaker 1: had to kind of work through their stuff.
13:07
Speaker 2: And looking back on that experience and watching that particular child,
13:11
Speaker 2: she didn't have an easy goal of it. She had
13:14
Speaker 2: some really really significant challenges that she was met with
13:17
Speaker 2: along the time that we were there.
13:19
Speaker 3: Yeah too, right, Yeah, But again.
13:21
Speaker 2: Just that constant desire to find the positive and to
13:28
Speaker 2: find ways that she could learn and grow through the process,
13:31
Speaker 2: as opposed to having it hold her back, were paramount
13:34
Speaker 2: to her being able to move forward.
13:36
Speaker 1: So Powell, I hope that answers the question. The research
13:39
Speaker 1: would indicate that it's disruptive. It can lead to pretty
13:43
Speaker 1: small effects, but it can lead to some small levels
13:46
Speaker 1: of dysfunction. They usually fade over time as relationships become embedded,
13:51
Speaker 1: as school becomes part of the new school becomes part
13:54
Speaker 1: of the new routine, and as everyone sort of settles in.
13:57
Speaker 1: But your kids need a lot of support. They definitely
13:59
Speaker 1: need to look forward to and the more we can
14:02
Speaker 1: help them to approach this new move with a positive attitude,
14:08
Speaker 1: with a curiosity, with an my eyes are open and
14:11
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to opportunities. The more we can do that,
14:15
Speaker 1: the more likely it is that they'll do well. Bearing
14:18
Speaker 1: in mind that if you force that too hard, it
14:19
Speaker 1: will backfire. They'll know what you're up to and they'll say, no,
14:22
Speaker 1: I'm going to dig my heels and make this miserable
14:24
Speaker 1: for everyone. So we want to tread carefully and give
14:26
Speaker 1: them as much autonomy around this as we possibly can.
14:29
Speaker 2: So maybe we could share some of the things that
14:31
Speaker 2: we've done over the years with those big moves that
14:33
Speaker 2: have helped our children and ourselves to assimilate into a
14:37
Speaker 2: new community and to start to move forward in positive ways.
14:40
Speaker 1: Okay, let's hit it nice and quick.
14:42
Speaker 2: So the thing that stands out to me top of
14:45
Speaker 2: the list is you have to be intentional as a parent.
14:49
Speaker 2: You actually can't take a step back and just say
14:51
Speaker 2: the kids will work it out. You actually have to
14:53
Speaker 2: get in there and start to help them know how
14:57
Speaker 2: to build the relationships there's new relationship. Depending on how
15:01
Speaker 2: long they've stayed in the one place, starting again can
15:04
Speaker 2: be really, really daunting, and so as a parent, it's
15:07
Speaker 2: really important that they see you doing those things, making
15:11
Speaker 2: new relationships, taking the steps to do it, but also
15:14
Speaker 2: providing them with opportunities to do it as well. So
15:17
Speaker 2: a couple of things that we've done. We've talked about
15:18
Speaker 2: the neighborhood breakfast that we had just recently. We've done
15:21
Speaker 2: that a few times in a few different communities, and
15:23
Speaker 2: it's really good for you as a parent to get
15:27
Speaker 2: to know the parents of the.
15:28
Speaker 1: Kids in the street.
15:29
Speaker 2: So your kid's going to end up in somebody's house
15:32
Speaker 2: at some point, but it's also just for your kids
15:37
Speaker 2: to watch you as you initiate conversations and you know,
15:41
Speaker 2: kind of have have that time to build those relationships.
15:45
Speaker 2: One of the other things that I love doing is
15:47
Speaker 2: just having like activity days during the holidays with the kids.
15:50
Speaker 2: Hold a party for no reason at all. So whether
15:53
Speaker 2: it's a craft party or a pool party or pizza
15:56
Speaker 2: and movies, it's just an opportunity to have families come
15:59
Speaker 2: into your home and you know, the kids to hang out.
16:03
Speaker 2: What we did this time round is actually delayed to
16:05
Speaker 2: the birthday party. Part of the reason was because we
16:08
Speaker 2: didn't have a house. We were homeless.
16:10
Speaker 1: We talked about it there of the week. We had
16:11
Speaker 1: the party six months late, but.
16:13
Speaker 2: It made all the difference because we weren't inviting just
16:15
Speaker 2: random kids. We were inviting their friends. They've had three
16:18
Speaker 2: terms to build relationships and had actually made all the difference.
16:22
Speaker 2: And the other thing that we've done we invite families over.
16:25
Speaker 2: Let's just start getting to know people. You don't know
16:27
Speaker 2: who's going to be a friend unless you actually spend
16:29
Speaker 2: time together, and those relationships take time. So again bringing people, Oh,
16:34
Speaker 2: you've got a kid, you know my daughter's age, let's
16:37
Speaker 2: have you over. Let's just get together and you know,
16:39
Speaker 2: kind of see where it goes. You might not ever
16:41
Speaker 2: be best friends, but it's actually just about starting the
16:45
Speaker 2: process build community.
16:47
Speaker 1: That's really at the heart of it and be there
16:49
Speaker 1: for your kids. Like you said, really listen and don't
16:51
Speaker 1: dismiss their their disappointment, their sadness, their struggles throughout the move.
16:56
Speaker 1: We really hope that this has been helpful for anyone
16:59
Speaker 1: who's in the process of we've been thinking about moving
17:01
Speaker 1: or knowing that a.
17:02
Speaker 3: Move is impending.
17:04
Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from
17:06
Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Tomorrow an
17:11
Speaker 1: important conversation about transitioning to high school because there's a
17:15
Speaker 1: whole lot of people who are about to go through
17:16
Speaker 1: that and as I mentioned earlier, it wasn't really good
17:18
Speaker 1: for me. On Thursday at the doctor's desk.
17:21
Speaker 3: Can't wait to get into some studies.
17:22
Speaker 1: It's all happening this week on the Happy Families Podcast.
17:26
Speaker 1: For more information, visit us at Happyfamilies dot com dot au.