Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / From Psych Ward, to Prison- to Successful Entrepreneur-Zach Babcock

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From Psych Ward, to Prison- to Successful Entrepreneur-Zach Babcock · Nightmare Success In and Out

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All right. What happens when he works here,
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becomes your reality, hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
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Welcome to the nightmare success in and out podcast, where we
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explore a, how to overcome your fears.
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And Nightmares is set yourself free.
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We're going to be exploring this topic with guys that was in
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Leavenworth with and others who survived their own nightmare.
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These stories can be inspiring. Sometimes sad, there's some
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humor but hopefully you can come away with a nugget of something
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that will help you knock down some of the prisons you built.
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Up in your own mind. All right, nightmare success in
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and out listeners. We are back.
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And I know you guys come here for the good stuff.
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The stuff about what happens when your worst fear becomes
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your reality, how do you adapt? How do you survive?
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How do you overcome? Well, I've got a guest today
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that did all of that and he's he's ripping it up now.
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It's Zach Babcock, he's he's got a unbelievable podcast, it's
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just keeps growing. It's called Underdog
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empowerment. It's Pat.
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It's a podcast for Alpha underdogs and He's, he's just,
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he's really an inspiration because of what he's done and
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how he's done it, there was something that he said that he
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keeps somewhere in around in his room and says, I'm here to get
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everything you said. I couldn't.
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I love that. It's.
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It's just like, yes, I get it. And I want to say Zach was
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really helpful with me with Travis Richey.
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Who was on here, a couple of podcasts go helping me get into
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over 200 prisons, there's I think, Or 750,000 tablets that's
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and across the country. So Zach Babcock.
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Welcome end, man. Brent, what is going on, man?
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I am excited to be here. Thank you for having me today,
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man. Well I just I want to unwrap all
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this stuff because your story is fascinating.
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I mean and we'll just go back a little bit, you know, growing up
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was a kid Zach. How what was it?
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Like, I mean, I know your story. Rita, can you tell the listeners
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just a little bit about what what it was growing up?
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When you were a kid? Yeah, for sure.
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I'll keep it short. And then, you know, if you want
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to go deeper, we can always do that growing up as a kid.
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I grew up. My dad died when I was seven and
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I remember just like disassociating and like, not
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crying and like, you know, I didn't know what I was doing
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them, but I was literally disassociating from the
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experience or what not. And yeah, I didn't really this
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deal with that. The right way.
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And then that my life, just started to tailspin.
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And after that, man, and I would like, I would always get told
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that was no good, I wasn't going to mount anything because, you
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know, I couldn't focus in school and, you know, all this crazy
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shit and I'm always I just stole that wasn't gonna gonna amount
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to anything, always being put down, like I wasn't good enough
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and whatever and I, you know, I by the time I was nine, I had my
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mom had put me in a rehab. I got kicked out of there
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because I was the youngest one there, and then I've got putting
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a, she put me in the psych ward. This would be for, like the
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courts. Got their hands on me.
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So like my whole like, Youth was like in and out of juvenile,
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detention centers, rehab, psych ward.
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You name it all the way up till I can't even imagine that at 9
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years old, being in that type of environment.
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I mean, how did you what were you thinking at that time, as a
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kid being in that world? Well, I recently, in 2021, I
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started doing like whatever you want to call.
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Inner work, healing, whatever I chose to do a mdma-assisted
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Psychotherapy which has been Right now, it's got a clinical
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trials. The 70% success rate in clinical
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trials, or whatnot, they're doing excellent like people
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didn't war and all kinds of different trauma.
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Yeah, yeah. Specially those people have been
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in war, whatnot. It's booted.
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Some really good stuff, but I'm so when I did that, man, it
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brings up memories that your ego literally suppresses.
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So like I forgot all about this stuff because like, it was so
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painful at the time that my ego like suppress it.
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So I If Associated so I didn't have to feel and deal with it at
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the time and it's literally been sort of my body the whole time
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which is crazy. It is, I mean, it's amazing what
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your mind can do good and bad, right?
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Yeah. So yeah, man, when you were so
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you get you were getting out of that and then he were also.
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I mean, at that time you're just a kid.
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I mean your what is school like for you, you know, are you are
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your teachers telling you the same thing you're not going to
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mount anything? It is this is not good for you.
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You're down the wrong road. I'm going to just put you over
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here and not deal with you. I how did how are you dealing
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with all that? Yeah, so like my mom even though
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she put me in the real that she didn't, she was always there
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supportive. Like as far as like, hey I
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believe in you could do anything, you put your mind to
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like she was the one, you know, giving me the encouragement that
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way. But she still put me in the
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fucking in a psych ward. When I was 9, which was not a
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lot of good move. Five days.
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But man, it was one second. I was 5 years dude.
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I felt like I was gonna die 24/7.
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I'm 9 years old. I'm seeing like these crazy
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psycho kids like in the corner, laughing and shit.
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Staff members are screaming at you and abusing.
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You literally restraining, and hitting you and like a scare.
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And then I'm getting woken up at do I get woken up at like 2:00
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or 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning, whatever time it was and I'd
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wake up being restrained and they'd have a fucking needle in
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my arm, shooting all types of drugs and me and take them up.
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But in shit, dude, like fucking really fucked up, you know.
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But, uh, yeah, school with all that going on.
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Like, you know, a lot of kids, they used to call like a TD.
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And they said I had ADD ADHD ABCDEFG, all that shit, right?
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And, uh, I don't have a problem focused and at all, but I do, I
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do. It's hard for me to focus on
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something that doesn't interest me that I'm not passionate
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about, but I've been learning a lot like a lot of the shit that
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I was doing in school in the reason why I couldn't focus
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because I had all this fucking trauma, and shit fucking going
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on right now. I get it.
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So, when you and if I remember your story correctly, you
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rolling along and then you started getting into heavier
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drugs, and I'm assuming that, that was a way for you, kind of
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to escape from all the stuff you were dealing with.
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Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it was.
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So, I started smoking weed at 9:00, that's the reason why my
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mom put me in the rehab. I was smoking weed, to numb
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myself. You know what I'm saying from
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from the shit, right? To not feel it to not have to
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deal with it, right? And did that all the way up till
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17? And then that's when I started
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graduate and to Other Drugs eventually dude, started playing
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around with ecstasy and Coke and before I know it I'm overdosing
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on heroin and smoking crack. It's crazy.
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So how did you get You think your siblings?
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You had a sister, right? And she is younger older.
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She was older, three and a half years and a half years older.
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So this starts happening start getting into drugs and how does
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this, how does the legal world come down on you?
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What happens on your on your own nightmare with that?
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Yeah man, so was in and, you know, in and out of juvenile,
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detention, boys, homes, whatever.
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All my adolescence and youth and then by the time, I was 17, I
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had caught a case. We were out, being idiots, would
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even need to steal, but we're out stealing from people's cars
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and rich neighborhoods. And that led to people leaving
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like garage door, openers in the car.
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And so we'd open that up, go hit some other houses.
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Come back at the garage door was still open.
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Then we'd hit the garage and take their power tools or
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whatever, whatever they had that was valuable in there.
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And we need Even need to steal the stuff like well, it wasn't
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rich but I wasn't poor. You know what I mean?
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And we're just doing it because we are bored and long story
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short caught a case I took the rap for Oliver up was four of
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us. I took the rap for everybody and
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then that got me into the adult prison system and then you know,
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just tailspin after that was starting to start the heavier
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drugs and just thought life was over and was given up on life.
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So when you got the first sentence, I think, if I
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remember, right, you were was it seven years at they tagged you
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with Yep, seven-year sentence and guess.
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There was a state state case in Missouri.
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What's it like? What were you 19 years old?
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Yeah. What was it?
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Like walking into that world and that age who man Mo probably
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probably more traumatic than what it needed to be.
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But I was, you know, I was in County, Jail were 48.
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Months before, I got sentenced them before.
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I actually finally got less County Jail to go to prison and
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the whole time in there I'm stressed in the fuck out
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thinking like oh man, do like I'm not soft or anything but I'm
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also you know, not some big Debo Deuter either, right?
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I'm like man, that I'm like, dude him are they gonna try and
9:19
rape me whatever? Like you know, I'm thinking
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about all this stuff man and it let losing sleep.
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Just panicking stressing out. Yeah.
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Yeah, I know there's nothing good about County Jail.
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I mean, for people who've been to jail, there's a big there's a
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difference between jail and prison and oh yeah you know so
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you walk in to prison and Was, do you have any different
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strategies of how you're going to deal with that world?
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I mean, you walk in Fairly young kid.
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A lot of young kids are in prison, though.
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You have anybody that comes and helps you out?
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You have anybody, you get a prison job.
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What like, how do you live in that world?
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Yeah, I remember there was a guy in County Jail that it did a
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bunch of time and then I had gotten pretty cool with it was
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like in a group that always hang out with his, like, four of us
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or whatever that we'd hang out whenever we came out ourselves
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and I pick his brain. And, and he told me, he's like,
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hey man. Because I was like, dude, what
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do I do when I get there? Like, how do you know?
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Yeah, I was freaking out. He's like, look, get their mind,
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your own business. Number one number two, stand, on
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your shit. You don't got to go fight or
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nothing but don't let nobody punku or nothing and if you say
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something, do it. And then number three, stick
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with your own kind. Unfortunately in prison as you
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know you've been to prison. The racism is a lot like more.
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What would you say more prevalent or whatever remedy of
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of It's A Primitive of Arma. Yeah.
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Yeah like when you go to the chow hall, why people say white
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people black people sit with black people Mexico.
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Like that's how it is in there and if you go and and if you are
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white, you go sit with the black are are Mexicans or whatever
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they're coming after. You know, I'm saying this just
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is what it is. So tell me those three rules.
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And I was like, okay I could do that, I can stand on my own shit
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and I can I can buy my own business and I can stick my own
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kind. Got it and so advice.
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Yeah, that was it on the outside.
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You get your mom, your sister and a girlfriend.
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I did have my girlfriend when I went back to prison, when I went
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in the first time for it for the long stretch and I didn't have a
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girlfriend, so you get visits. Yeah, my mom.
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So even though she did traumatize the fuck out of me, I
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put me in that rehab and shit and that, and that, and that,
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and that psych ward or whatnot. She was always there for me
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though. Like as far as like, she would
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always come, visit every day. She'd always like, tell me.
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You could do anything, you put your mind to.
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And she genuinely did love me. Even though she made some
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mistakes like we all do. But yeah, she was there and
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support us. Yeah, I think it's a big deal.
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I mean, I was lucky like that my wife at the time she She came
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and I, you know, one thing I think about businesses you it's
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like you straddle the fence, you got the prison world, and you
12:07
got the outside world, and if you can have that connection, it
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keeps you from getting to institutionalized into the
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prison world. I think, I mean, you can still
12:17
get still good institutionalized because you get into bad habits
12:19
and ugly, you know, you're in an ugly environment and there's
12:23
things. But I think the other thing that
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you said, it's interesting, and I also think it's something that
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plays into as You get out you search for people that were
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getting it right too. So you know how do I how do I
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make this work? How do I make this work for me
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and that's what you got to do in business, too.
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You know, you've got a, you get a look and say, okay, I'm not
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going to reinvent the wheel here who's getting it right?
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And then how can I Implement that back into my world?
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I know that you there's a really gripping story that you talk
12:54
about where you're in prison. You get put in the hole.
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I can't remember why you got to put in the the whole but you're
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in there and you get called out of there to the captains office
13:08
which is never good. And can you kind of lead us
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through what happened with that? Yeah, for sure.
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So, this was 2010, I was two years into my say they're like I
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said, at a seven-year sentence. I didn't at this time, I didn't
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know when I was coming home, I ended up coming home at a little
13:25
bit over after four years. So I'm two years into this
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four-year. Stay at the time.
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Still don't know when I'm coming home on 21 years old in the hole
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for tattoo violations. And like I said I got called
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back to the captains office. I'm thinking in my mind,
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somebody out on the yard had told on me for something that I
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that I In gotten in trouble for yet or they were trying to get
13:45
me to tell on somebody else. And so you know, when I get back
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there, I'm all in this. Like what do y'all want?
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You know, like trying to play this tough guy stuff and I he's
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like, you know, Miss red Peg. You know, when you come back,
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two years, nothing good. And so anyways, I'm like, yeah,
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whatever, man, I ain't got nothing to say.
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Put me back in my cell and he's like, yeah, we got a call from
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your, from your mom and she found her sister dead on the
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floor for needle in her arm. My mom had to break into the
14:07
bathroom, with the screwdriver and found her found her dead
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from a heroin overdose. Yeah, dude.
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And dude, I just started crying and, you know, they I asked to
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be put back in a Cell by myself. It's been a silly the time and
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luckily the whole wasn't filled up and so they had extra space
14:24
and the guards were cool about that and let me go into the to
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excel by myself. And next three days was just all
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I could think about was all the mean should I ever said to her
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and you know, how wouldn't be able to say her goodbyes?
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And my mom was going to be at the funeral with Roman bearing,
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her only daughter and her only sons and Risen all this shit,
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right? And I just been a really, really
14:45
dark place, man, and it was really really tough.
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And I remember on that third day, though, I woke up and I was
14:50
like, God, I don't know why I'm here, but there is a reason
14:54
because I'm still breathing. What can I do right now to find
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happiness and peace man? And that question just led to
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this answer of keep your shit in order, dial it in like this.
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This will I will, I'll spare you the details.
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They like, Nano see, they don't have nothing on what I was doing
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in the cell every single day. Same thing, same time, every All
15:13
day like clockwork but it helped give me a peace of mind and keep
15:17
some sanity in there. And yeah man, I learned a great
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lesson by that. You know about the quality
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questions that we ask ourselves which is really important.
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Yeah. Because your mind responds to
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it. Yeah.
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When you ask yourself questions, you know it's your mind then
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tries to find the solution and yep.
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You know I think from where you were I mean at a 30-second
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conversation with your mom, which if you think about, That
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that's, that's almost unbelievable to think that you
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were dealing with something that traumatic. losing your sister
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and you had 30 seconds to share with your mom that information
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and then your LED back into By yourself in the hole and and you
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know, a lot of people I think what's interesting about that.
16:03
I think it's what's interesting about your story Zach is that a
16:07
lot of people you know everybody falls down and everybody finds
16:11
their Rock Bottom. Sometimes I find it a couple of
16:13
times but you could have gotten into a fetal position and just
16:16
given up. But something the way that your
16:20
wire didn't do that did just the opposite.
16:22
You, you went to try to find a solution to make So feel better
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and you start cleaning up the place, turn into a things.
16:32
It you know that made you feel different and once you got out
16:38
of there, you still had what two and a half years or two years
16:42
left. Right.
16:44
Wichita, like you go ahead. Yeah.
16:47
Yeah. I was gonna say I did at that
16:48
time. I didn't know when I, I didn't
16:49
have a parole date yet, so I didn't even know when I was
16:51
coming home. See ya ended up doing two more
16:54
years. Did it feel different?
16:56
Your time from that? Point forward, absolutely man.
16:59
So, what's crazy is, I spared a lot of detail about this story
17:04
that I want to just go into a ramble mode.
17:07
But man, before this, I would do things that I didn't want to do
17:13
to fit in with other people. Like I wanted to be accepted.
17:17
I mean we all do everybody wants to be accepted as a human.
17:20
This is human nature but I really wanted to be accepted
17:23
really bad and so I would do stupid shit that got me in a lot
17:26
of trouble. Just to be accepted by the cool
17:29
guys in prison or whatnot, or fit in with them or whatnot.
17:32
And I never really felt like a, like a like a like a like a real
17:37
man. Like I could say no to other
17:38
people or something until this happened.
17:40
And I went through this process and then I was down in the hole
17:43
for two months. So, I'm doing this crazy routine
17:46
and I'm finding God, what? Not throughout this process?
17:49
And at the end of it, I found a piece of mind.
17:53
And one of the darkest times of my life, probably one of the
17:56
most peaceful. I've ever been in my life and I
17:59
was inside of a prison cell, which is crazy.
18:02
And when I got out the whole finally, I was like a new
18:04
person. I was, I was I like, what was
18:06
rebirthed through that experience, man.
18:09
And uh, at from that point on I no longer did shit to like I
18:13
would say no. If I don't want to do some like
18:16
the, hey man, let's go, dude. I'm like nah, man, I'm cool, I'm
18:17
not doing that, you know, it was like a moment where I finally
18:21
like, Stepped into my own as you would say so yourself.
18:25
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. So you do your time.
18:33
You get out. Well, tell me about this.
18:35
So you everybody gets a little weirded out when they get, you
18:38
know, few months to the door. What were you thinking at that
18:41
time? I was ready.
18:45
I couldn't wait to get back home at the same time.
18:51
It was like it's going to be different because I'm used to
18:53
being locked up now and like I had gotten to the point where I
18:56
didn't even think about that outside.
18:57
Once you, once you, you know it and then once you're locked up
18:59
for so long, you quit thinking about the outside stuff and you
19:02
just focus on your day-to-day in there and that's how you do your
19:05
time. And that's where I was at.
19:07
I was like almost institutionalized in a sense
19:09
somewhat to a degree and yes, I was like man this is going to be
19:15
a it's going to be quite a bit of an adjustment coming out.
19:18
Yeah, I think it's reason I brought this That up, as I
19:21
think, it's interesting how in a really bad place.
19:25
Prison guys can get freaked out about getting out of prison,
19:29
because they become so used to the ugly routine, that freedom
19:34
scares them are makes them uncomfortable, makes them
19:37
nervous. And I think that you see a lot
19:39
of that on the outside too. You know, people get into these
19:42
ugly routines and you know, whether it's a, you know, Health
19:47
crisis, bad marriage, bad job, whatever those things are People
19:52
get into those ruts and then, you know, an opportunity
19:55
presents itself when they can't step into it because it's too
19:58
much of the unknown. You know, you see guys catch,
20:02
you know, they catch an extra charge while they're in prison,
20:04
so they stay in prison, which is sounds good.
20:07
It doesn't sound rational because, you know, you say well,
20:09
how could how the hell could that happen, you, how could, how
20:12
could you stay in prison? Because it's, because whatever
20:16
is going on out there, seems overwhelming, and what's inside
20:20
the prison walls, Al's seems like something you know, and
20:23
it's that whole Unknown Known thing and yeah people say you
20:28
know I don't get it. But on the outside, people do it
20:31
all the time. They stay in a really bad
20:34
situation and the only thing that's going to help them is
20:38
stepping into the unknown and that's always fearful.
20:40
Even if it's a good thing that scares people, even if it's a
20:43
good thing, people get scared walking into the unknown.
20:48
So Zach, you step out, how do you step out who's there?
20:52
Who's your support team when you get out?
20:56
Man is the funny story. So I got out the the February
21:04
28, 2012, 23 years old, just did a little bit over four years in
21:08
prison. So when I went in it, you know,
21:11
I went in at 19, get out now and I'm 23.
21:14
So I means I could go to the bar and shit like that, right?
21:16
Experience. All that shit for a first-time.
21:17
Well, first day, my mom were 19, you weren't 21.
21:21
So yeah, that would be a whole new world.
21:23
Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, man, and I know what's
21:26
funny is my mom came to pick me up and I was in Pacific prison
21:32
which Which is about 45 minutes from st.
21:34
Louis, where I lived. And my mom came to pick me up
21:38
and she brought the same outfit that I had.
21:42
You know, when I got locked up and at the when I got locked up
21:45
in 2008, we we were wearing, you know, and I was like, you know,
21:49
trying to be like a gangster back then and I heard some of
21:54
your background stuff, she wanted to be a rapper, I
21:56
believe, but that will save that for another time.
22:06
My clothes man, back in 28 2008. The what was in style was real
22:11
baggy. Clothes like I'm War.
22:14
I had a brought up my pants which was a size 44 waist.
22:18
I wear a size 32, so I can literally fit my whole body in
22:22
one leg. So, I'm putting on the clothes,
22:25
you know? And I'm like, I look at my mom,
22:26
I'm like, yo mom, I'm not trying to freeload or anything but you
22:30
think you could pay me by somewhere to pick a pick up a
22:31
pair of Pair of an outfit that fits me and she laughed and was
22:34
like yeah and so we leave the prison.
22:37
We go to Target and we getting Target and I started freaking
22:41
the fuck out man because it was so weird because like you're in
22:45
you're in society and everybody's walking around, they
22:47
got a smile on their face and they're like Caulking and
22:49
conversation. You answer it overloads.
22:52
Yeah and I'm used to just like everybody, you know, minding
22:56
their own business. Nobody has a smile on her face
22:58
and nobody talking and shit. You know what I'm saying?
23:01
Be friendly. So it's if it freaked me out and
23:05
then like, I'm I'm very and I give my mom the clothes.
23:08
I'm like, can I go out in the car?
23:09
And have I'm freaking out. She's like, yeah, sure, it's
23:12
like I'm going and like I was going to leave and you know,
23:15
they got the doors where you walk in the sliding doors, are
23:18
you walk in? You got the sliding doors, we
23:20
walk out and they get the sliding doors in the middle for
23:22
the cart that you put the shopping carts in.
23:26
Well, there wasn't any shopping carts in there right at this
23:28
time. So I thought I was just a normal
23:29
door and I'm trying to go through the middle and the door.
23:32
Erwin open and I'm sorry. Panicking like it.
23:35
Yeah they locked it on me and they're getting ready to lock me
23:38
up because he can do shit. I was stressed out, man.
23:42
It was, yeah, it was an adjustment man.
23:44
It was, it was wild to get used to the, to the Free World again
23:48
after being gone for so long. So you get into the world.
23:52
What do you, what's, what are your first steps to getting back
23:55
into the to the Free World? Man, at this time, I was, you
24:01
know, I was 23. Ended up going back to prison
24:03
after this. I stayed out for two years and I
24:06
went back one more time which I want to talk about.
24:10
I want to talk about that too. I don't want to, I want don't
24:12
want to go over or gloss over that because that's a big part
24:17
of your story. You know.
24:18
With, you know, at the time that all happened and you know, you
24:25
just, you know, the interesting part of your story, I think Zach
24:28
is, is you kind of came to found basically who you You were back
24:33
down to your soul, you get out. You start drinking and then that
24:38
you know I guess in a sense you know drinking can can bring you
24:41
down. I mean it can it can depress you
24:43
too. What was all going on with you
24:45
at that time? Yeah man I got out was doing
24:49
excellent man. I was drinking of course still
24:52
numbing doing shit to numb like always was and still even after
24:58
I got sober when I was doing business I was being super ultra
25:01
successful. All to numb and like, you know
25:04
she had a shit, right? So um, yeah, I'm drinking
25:08
though, I wasn't like alcoholic heavy.
25:10
I was just like, you know, drinking partying socially and
25:12
stuff, working in bars and stuff.
25:13
Well um, Over time about a year later.
25:17
I got a job at this clothing store that I used to always shop
25:20
it and I was excited, makes, you know, ex-convict you can't
25:24
really get right hardly any jobs man.
25:27
Let alone a good one and I'm excited because it's in sales.
25:30
I'm like, dude, that's my jam and instead of clothing store
25:32
that I already shop at that. I love shopping at some like
25:34
cool, you know? And so man, I get the Rock in
25:37
their third day on the job. I still 3,000 on a six-hour
25:41
shift, the whole operation that day did nine thousand total So
25:45
in six hours, I was one third of the whole operation for the day
25:49
and they gave me a promotion and boom.
25:51
I'm now, I'm in management. I'm excited.
25:53
I'm like, I'm finally putting my past behind me and then men
25:56
Human Resources. Call me like, yeah, you're a
25:58
convicted felon. You gotta kick rocks.
26:00
And so like just like that, I was like on top of the world
26:03
thinking. I'm advancing to Halt the sale
26:05
of the wind knocked out of my sails.
26:07
Yeah. Like damn this is never going
26:09
to. I'm never going to overcome this
26:10
is all in. So I was defeated in.
26:13
Am I had a defeat of mindset and I gave in and threw in the towel
26:17
and just started drinking hardcore like would wake up by
26:20
like 10:00 in the morning from being.
26:23
So wasted the night before and drink all throughout the day
26:27
slamming beers until about 9:00 p.m. hits and then we start
26:30
switching to Whiskey and all the way to whatever and I'm just
26:34
yeah I was just like fuck it man it's over man.
26:36
And then end up getting a DWI and let me go in the back to
26:40
prison. What's your girlfriend thinking?
26:42
At this time? I mean are you having Is with
26:45
her about that, or what are you just closed off at?
26:48
Like, how is she dealing with you and your world because you
26:52
were doing well? I mean, if I remember right?
26:55
You had a job at a restaurant bar, you're doing well there
26:58
then you got this sales job. You were doing well, there, they
27:02
kick you in the head saying that you're an ex-convict can't work
27:04
there. Where does she play into to your
27:09
mental world? Of how does she deal with that?
27:12
Yeah man, you know when we also she was pregnant to with twin
27:16
boys in a man, there's just a lot of shit at that time and I
27:20
was in a really dark place and I was really like pushing her away
27:23
like I was like burning everything down at that point,
27:25
this like fuck it, burn it all down and pushing her away and
27:28
just going out and drinking. And just given up man and she,
27:32
you know, she was there, she was trying to show us being
27:35
supportive and trying to get me on the right track.
27:37
So you get picked up for DWI your, I guess you're on
27:40
probation. That's I'm sure you had like,
27:43
well yeah parole for a few years and then you get the D wi.
27:48
How do you find out? You're going back?
27:52
So I got the DWI they made bond and then a few weeks later was
27:58
out drinking again. Was that a bar wasted?
28:02
Apparently, I tried to pick a fight with a guy and then the
28:06
police guy called and I woke up in Ferguson jail with a massive
28:11
headache and back hurting sleeping on some metal bunk and
28:15
learn Stephanie couldn't come bail me I'm like, what do you
28:18
mean like yeah they put a parole violation and you're going Back
28:21
to prison. And this is 20 days from my
28:23
twin, Sons were born in my heart, like dropped.
28:26
When I heard that man, I was like fuck man, the one thing and
28:29
I'm going to miss out on on their birth which was something
28:32
that I always want. You know.
28:33
I couldn't wait to be a dad, you know, because I never had one
28:35
growing up and so that that for me, it right there in that jail.
28:40
So that's when my life changed was that phone call.
28:42
So that's when I said fucking I don't care what it takes.
28:46
I'm moving in this direction from now on.
28:48
Well, how long do you go back? Back.
28:52
Yeah. So I didn't know how long
28:54
they're going to keep me for. I knew that you know usually go
28:58
back for a little six months that back usually unless it's
29:01
more severe I had a year and a half left on parole so I knew
29:05
that the longest they could keep me for so is anywhere from six
29:08
months to a year and a half. I ended up doing eight months
29:10
though, okay? So now you get out this time you
29:15
get out this time you got twin boys so you got a whole nother
29:18
world at you. Now you got twin boys but you're
29:21
coming out to to a life that you've you've hit your second
29:26
rock, bottom and said, hey this is it, Everything's changed.
29:30
So what happens when you hit out this time?
29:34
Yeah, man. I know what I was gonna do.
29:41
I said I was going to do some, my plan that didn't never happen
29:45
but my plan was I knew I was going to have to change my
29:49
people places and things for sure, because I need to get
29:52
different results. So need to change all that up,
29:54
which I'll skip through Mathis said, Zack.
29:57
That's a big tell. Ya, yeah, people places and
30:00
things, man. That's at your environment.
30:02
The people you surround yourself with and the things you're
30:05
doing, Get around the right people that are that already
30:08
gotten. Do what you want and get in the
30:09
environment. Want to be a man and do the
30:11
things that's like you said. But, uh, yeah, man, I knew I had
30:16
to do that, but I didn't know what I was going to do to be
30:19
successful. I was like, man, I'm so, I was
30:21
like, in my mind. I was like, dude, I already know
30:23
it's going to be hard as hell to get a job.
30:25
Well, this, the Michael Brown situation happened in Ferguson
30:29
while I was in. Yeah, well, I was in, when I was
30:32
in prison this, that last time and like I said, I'm from
30:35
Ferguson And so I was like, man, this is crazy news making this
30:38
shit out way crazier and what it is.
30:42
You know, this is how the news is still very unfortunate
30:45
situation. I was like, man.
30:47
You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna make these wristbands
30:49
that. Say, I heart Ferguson on them,
30:51
and these t-shirts that say I hurt Ferguson on him and I'ma go
30:53
door-to-door and sell them perf and uh, hell of a business
30:57
model, by the way. But that was the goal.
31:01
And so I got out and was looking for a job to fund that idea and
31:05
couldn't find a job. A fun that idea.
31:07
And so that ended up never happening because I ended up
31:10
getting involved in network marketing to kick things off,
31:12
which is another crazy story. And how did, how did you how did
31:15
you find that? How did that, where did that
31:18
come from? A guy can't, I was in the gym
31:21
every day and just making post and a guy comment on one of my
31:25
posts like hey I got this drink. You want to try it or whatever
31:28
and I was like I will kill you can make some money off of it
31:30
and the end up only live in 15 minutes away from me.
31:33
So we met up and tried to drink I was like a little Natural
31:36
Energy drink or whatever and so I was like fuck it let's go and
31:41
yeah we made it happen dude. I was making almost $2000 a
31:43
month residual income through network marketing for about two
31:47
years there, which is actually really fucking good.
31:51
Oh yeah, absolutely. But uh yeah and it wasn't like I
31:55
was richer nothing but man that was a game-changer for somebody
31:59
coming out of prison that couldn't you know, could barely
32:01
get a job anywhere. And now I'm making more than
32:04
most of my friends and able to feed my family.
32:06
And so it was a game changer and it taught me a lot and I'm super
32:10
grateful for but at the end of the day it wasn't my thing.
32:12
It was a stepping stone to get to my thing.
32:16
So let's talk about that because I mean, you know, I don't know
32:20
if anybody you know, the one thing I say about when you get
32:24
out you have you no matter what you have a tattoo on your
32:29
forehead that says I'm an ex-felon and you know, people
32:33
wondering, you know why why why is it so hard?
32:36
Well, you know if you can't get a place to live or you can't get
32:38
a job, it makes it really hard to get back into society.
32:42
What I think school those Zach is that you knew.
32:45
You knew you'd already been kicked in the head.
32:47
You'd already shown that you could sell.
32:49
Well, and they said, no, we don't want you only because you
32:53
are an ex-felon, but then you knew down deep.
32:56
Hey, I'm good at this. I can sell and you reapplied it
32:59
into a place that would take you and he made it and you use that
33:05
piece because I'm gross, I want to talk about what you're doing.
33:08
Now you use that piece that the as a stepping stone to get to
33:14
what your passion was. So you're at that point you're
33:17
making good money you taking care.
33:19
Are your family? What's going through your mind?
33:24
I knew It wasn't my thing. It wasn't.
33:29
When I was it just I was building someone else's dreams
33:32
and super grateful for the industry and always will be but
33:37
the industry it taught me was like what was possible?
33:39
It showed me a lot of things that what were possible and I
33:41
was like, man I need to go do my own fucking thing and also to
33:47
you know my income and started dwindling a little bit, it was
33:50
they'll still making like either anywhere from 750 to 1500 a
33:54
month, you know, fluctuating or whatnot.
33:57
Never did drop down below that but I wasn't passionate about it
34:01
anymore, man. And so I decided at the
34:04
beginning 2017 they jump off the cliff and grow wings on the way
34:07
down. Like I always do and go do go
34:10
start my own saying like that jump off the cliff and grow
34:13
wings on the way down. That's good.
34:15
I like that. We've got to figure it out right
34:17
now. The yeah, I ended up leaving
34:20
that and struggled mightily for the next year and a half with
34:23
that too. But yeah, that was the game
34:25
plan. So where did you go?
34:28
What was your next? What was were you reading what
34:32
was getting you to the point where I'm going to as an
34:34
entrepreneur? You've you know you take bits
34:37
and pieces and then you jump. So what what did you jump too?
34:41
Man I think Gary vaynerchuk at the time and I was just watching
34:46
stuff and I was like man I don't know what the fuck he actually
34:48
does. But I want to do a big was
34:50
people, it's that guy's unreal. I mean I don't know how many
34:53
faults he might have the most followers on all social media
34:57
but the guy is on real. Yeah 1000% and I just I'd see
35:02
him and I was like, dude, I truly don't know what he does to
35:06
make money but I want to do what he's doing and just create
35:09
context, that's what I loved. Doing.
35:11
Yeah, and so I left and I started doing that and quickly
35:16
learn like, oh shit, I need to make money doing this.
35:18
How do I make money in? And so, that started that whole
35:23
process, man of like, trying to figure out how to craft an offer
35:27
message and all this stuff. And it, it wasn't pretty in
35:32
there was, you know, people say the overnight success now.
35:35
But you know, there was many nights where I'm up at 3:00 or
35:38
4:00 in the morning. Trying to figure out how to get
35:39
a fucking funnel into Or whatever, you know, learning all
35:42
this shit, but and it was definitely grateful for the
35:45
process. So did you go?
35:47
If I remember us, talking Zach, did you go to like a mastermind
35:50
or something? I, if I remember, right?
35:52
You like, correct me if I'm wrong because I think I'm
35:56
remembering this, right? Like, you just gathered up a
35:58
bunch of money for this Mastermind event because this
36:02
guy had what you thought you needed and you went to it.
36:06
And that was kind of your rocket fuel for you to take off.
36:08
Is that my correct about that? At.
36:13
Yeah, if for most part, the two big events that was the second
36:17
one. First one was a launch the
36:20
podcast in April, of 2018, before I launch the podcast,
36:23
nobody was wanting to do anything with me.
36:25
Like I'd reach out to people and people would like open my
36:28
messages and leave them on scene and not respond back a lot of
36:31
times. And I just felt like, you know,
36:33
nobody, you know, took me seriously honestly, and I was
36:37
using that as a chip on my shoulder and so that launched
36:42
the podcast, Got it ranked on day 3 and had Billy Gene is
36:45
marking on the following week. So on one week's worth of time,
36:48
I went from nobody giving me the time of day to interviewing.
36:51
Very influential people that a lot of people already know and
36:55
look up to that. I'm trying to talk to and so I
36:58
was like, holy shit man, this is wild and so that was a lot of
37:01
people give up, you know. That's, that's one of the crazy
37:04
things about podcasting is I think 80% of the podcast drop
37:08
off on the first. What is it?
37:09
Three months? You know, they just, they quit
37:12
because they just they Don't they can't get the content,
37:14
can't get through whatever it is, but you found a way and then
37:18
you got somebody really big on and I'm sure that created some
37:21
momentum for you. Oh yeah, man 1000%, man.
37:27
In like you said, my most people quit, you know, by episode 13
37:30
they're done. So I broke through with that,
37:33
I'm like, wow this is, you know, it started like getting me brand
37:37
awareness and building my brand and like opening up
37:40
opportunities more people. Going to do stuff with me.
37:44
People want to come on the podcast.
37:46
Obviously, people want me to come speak at their events so
37:49
I'm like, this is cool shit man, but I still wasn't making money
37:52
and figured that part out yet. I was making anywhere from like
37:54
two hundred eight hundred dollars a month through
37:56
affiliate marketing, then I was doing but that was it and that's
37:59
not enough to feed a family and so you know, I was that was the
38:04
first event April, 2018 fast forward to to Eight months or so
38:10
are four or five months later. I seen that offer were Mitch,
38:13
put out an offer about helping you you know, with with crafting
38:18
and offer first and foremost for specific audience and then
38:21
communicating that offer through copyright into them or whatnot
38:24
in positioning. And he wrote this this bomb-ass
38:27
offer for his Mastermind which is two thousand dollars a month
38:31
and I've seen it in at the time our bills were backed up.
38:34
Our water was shut off. It's likely our water was shut
38:37
off man. We got four.
38:38
Orchids and credit cards maxed out and I went and got a title
38:42
loan on my Christ for at Chrysler Aspen for four thousand
38:45
dollars. Crazy dumb interest rates like
38:48
crazy high. Everybody's saying you're crazy
38:50
and I went and got in as Mastermind at two thousand
38:52
dollars a month just to try to learn that stuff and everybody
38:55
said like dude you're stupid you're crazy.
38:56
You got a lotta weight months later.
38:58
We had a six-figure business because I because I went all in
39:01
on that. I'm so damn it.
39:03
I love that story because you went all in you know they my
39:08
grandpa To say the difference between the ham and the eggs at
39:11
breakfast, the chickens involved that pig.
39:14
He was damn committed. But you went all-in.
39:20
I mean, you got totally committed and I'm sure everybody
39:23
around you thought that was nuts.
39:25
I mean, like you said, your water is cut off, but you had
39:29
this drive this passion, this burn that you had.
39:33
The said I got something in me. I got to make this work.
39:36
I know it's good to work and you found Found a way to find your
39:41
way there. Not everybody would have done
39:43
that. Not everybody would have gone to
39:44
the Mastermind was it's too much.
39:46
I can't do it. There's no way to get there.
39:48
I can't, I can't I can't. And you figured out I can.
39:52
And then you end up going. And you're, I mean, you're
39:55
things really blown up. Zach.
39:57
I mean, you're, you're, you know, you just got off interview
40:01
with Bradley, who's, you know, big.
40:04
I mean, I don't know if there's, there's probably five or six
40:07
people that are just Gigantic. And he's one of them but you're
40:13
just tenacious man. You just you just keep you just
40:16
keep going. You don't take no.
40:17
If they say no they don't have enough information yet and so
40:21
you get back from that, masterminded it.
40:24
How long was it from the time that you felt like you had the
40:28
tools that thing started working for you?
40:32
Amen. We can gain their Mastermind and
40:35
September of 2018 and been in breakthrough, didn't make money
40:39
until March of 2019. So I went got that title loan
40:42
and September 2018, we're going all the way to March.
40:45
Now it got worse than between that time with money.
40:49
He's gonna mean, so it got even more stressful but the skills
40:53
were being developed the for the the labor was being put in and
40:57
the fruits were getting ready to be.
40:58
Harvested, how was your case, goodbye?
41:02
How did you survive? Stephanie and then credit cards.
41:06
Maxed out using her dad's credit card.
41:09
Just tell him that you think. Yeah, yeah.
41:13
Winging it man getting by, figuring it out hustling and
41:16
getting it. It's done.
41:19
It's cool because I how I found out about you trainer as a Bart.
41:29
Yeah, okay. So I've got a good friend of
41:32
mine and I think he goes to the same Jimmy's man, you This, I
41:35
think they have the same term you guys had the same trainer
41:37
and I see cats talk to this exact Babcock, man.
41:39
He's really just blown. And I started checking out what
41:41
you were doing is like man because I'm a big believer, when
41:44
somebody's doing something really good, go talk to him, try
41:48
to figure it out, that's how you.
41:49
And I got connected was is trying to figure out what in the
41:53
world you were doing it. Or you know, how did you how
41:55
were you making it work? And you've helped me out, you
41:58
know the things you know some of the things that I wasn't doing
42:02
it was like I had to just kind of slap my for Head and think
42:05
how he'll, why wasn't I doing that?
42:06
One of the things you said, was it go on other people's podcast
42:09
and be guests because that's where they are.
42:11
They're already on that platform their podcast listeners.
42:14
They're not necessarily on Instagram and Facebook, even
42:16
though you have an influence there.
42:18
But if you get on other people's podcast as a guest then they're
42:23
going to see you as somebody and then all well I'll go check out
42:27
I'll go check out Zach. I will check out Brent they've
42:29
got a podcast. I'll go listen to it simple.
42:33
But man it's a Big deal because I mean, I think, you know, you
42:37
were telling me when you first started doing that you were
42:39
doing, you know, a podcast or two a day as a guest.
42:43
And, you know, you showed me the charts on that, it wasn't easy,
42:47
but then, all of a sudden that thing took off and then it
42:50
became a multiple for you. So it's unbelievable.
42:54
So, man, Zach, what's, what's your next where you're at now?
43:01
Because I know you've done really well.
43:02
I mean, you've got yourself yet. You know a house that's out by a
43:07
lake and we were joking, you know, your kids were out there.
43:11
You're showing them how to breathe when it's 40 degrees
43:13
outside in the water, we all kinds of the stuff that you got
43:17
to learn but I've never done that by the way, but I'm sure
43:21
that that's a credible. What are you thinking?
43:26
Is your next step on this whole world thing world domination -
43:31
yeah, you know, um, For me it's crazy.
43:36
I was trying a little bit to go all in on this this passion
43:44
project is you would say or something.
43:45
That's more of like a purpose. Like you know obviously we
43:48
launched the podcast business back in 2019 and we've launched
43:52
today 278 podcast launch that got them ranked on Apple and we
43:57
and we got to 81 in the queue slot podcast.
44:00
You know. Yeah helped a lot of people you
44:03
know and I am Comcast changed my life.
44:05
It gave me a platform to get my message out there and to really
44:09
do everything I'm doing today and its really cool helping
44:13
other people. Entrepreneurs do the same thing.
44:16
Well, I wanted to do more how, you know, that's how we are
44:19
entrepreneurs anyways, but as a man, I can help people so much
44:23
more than just, you know, with podcasting I can help them with
44:26
marketing in general, but then I can help people just from a life
44:29
perspective, man. And, and, and what not and
44:31
that's what I really, you know, want to do what I'm called.
44:34
To do. But I was trying to go all in on
44:36
that on the passion project or the side hustle or whatnot.
44:41
And I was trying to move away from the main thing in the main
44:44
thing is the podcast business and until the side hustle are
44:48
the passion project becomes the main thing you got to keep the
44:51
main thing, the main thing. Exactly.
44:53
So and so what we're doing now is all, I'm always all in on
44:58
something, right? But up, I'm all in on the on the
45:01
podcast business and we're scaling that deal out.
45:04
And we're going to get it to a level where I can really, you
45:07
know, maybe give more time to the other things.
45:09
I'm still doing the alpha dog pound and and which is our
45:12
Mastermind and still doing that event that we do once.
45:15
A year Alpha, Dog Pound lies. Every every July is when we like
45:18
to do that. But yeah, all in on the podcast
45:22
and you know, yeah, I got tons of goals.
45:25
I could go through but that's the big one right now is really
45:28
skilled podcast powertrain up. Yeah, you know I was listening
45:31
to you were talking about on the The beginning of the brad.leah
45:36
interview you were talking about you kind of hit a lull with, you
45:40
know, I've done all this, I've kind of gotten to where I wanted
45:43
to get to but you know, your you didn't want to get away from
45:48
being the passion and being a great dad and being there for
45:51
doing. And I see all the stuff that
45:53
you're doing your coaching and you're doing all those things,
45:56
you know? You never.
45:57
And I think you know, Brad said well that is your business, you
46:01
know, your family is your business and You know, I think
46:06
the great thing I think about what you're doing is you're
46:08
keeping things in priority and perspective you know making
46:12
money is one thing making a difference is another thing
46:17
changing people's lives is the real thing and you know, for me,
46:22
I look at what you're doing and I've had money.
46:26
And the the thing about money is you don't worry about that
46:30
anymore. All the other stuff you still
46:32
have. I think they say that, In
46:34
Forrest Gump, you know, you just well, don't have to worry about
46:36
that. But the biggest thing is that, I
46:38
think the thing that that fills you up is changing and, and, and
46:43
helping people and changing their lives.
46:45
You know, that's whatever that fuel is, whatever that.
46:48
And then you obviously have to figure out how to monetize so
46:51
that you can make that happen. But man, that feels good when it
46:55
does happen, when, you know that you're really touching and
46:58
making a difference in what you're doing and that helps
47:01
people's lives, get better and that's that's power.
47:04
Awful stuff. Amen.
47:06
Amen. Dude.
47:07
I'd like to this expound on that real quick.
47:09
Um, what you said about with the with the kids and stuff man,
47:14
like, I'm all-in dude in, like, don't get me wrong, like I do
47:18
like grind and I work hard all these great things, like I will
47:22
go hard and, and I do but now, like, for first six years, I
47:28
sacrificed like time with my health, and my time with my
47:31
family and so forth. I thought that I had to do that
47:32
in order to build the business. Now, I'm at The part where I
47:36
realized, like, wait a minute, dude, I could build this
47:38
business whenever yeah. And right now, my kids are never
47:43
going to be this young again. They're not going to be in the
47:45
house for forever. Exactly.
47:47
This is the Hopkins family time. I'm going to.
47:50
Yeah, this is the only time I'm going to get with them like
47:53
this. So now I have a hard cut, 4:00
47:55
p.m. central, I don't give a fuck what kind of fires are
47:57
going on the business? I don't care.
47:59
I'm done for the day switching to Dad mode and I'm with my kids
48:03
and now like I'll favor. Like, like if like safe, like my
48:07
kids home from school, like he is today or whatever, I'm going
48:10
to instead it, like, do do work the whole day.
48:12
Like when I got my creative time, I'm going to take him out
48:15
to lunch and said I'd rather. I'd rather spend my time with my
48:18
son and take him out to lunch then.
48:21
Then do it. Like I'm still going to do it
48:23
works. Absolutely.
48:23
I think that's and you won't miss me and you do that now.
48:29
There's no way to regret it later.
48:30
I got one last question for you, Zach because I know you got to
48:34
jump going through everything you've gone through and you've
48:39
gone through a journey here. What do you think your biggest
48:42
takeaway to tell the people out there?
48:45
Man, focus on only the things that you can control, and keep
48:51
the small promises that you make to yourself daily.
48:55
And that's how you win in life. If you like look, man, we're all
48:58
humans, dude. You're gonna feel all the
49:01
emotions are going to feel fear. You're going to feel scared and,
49:04
and depressed, and despair, and all that.
49:07
Like, there's no way around it. You're also going to feel, Joy,
49:09
Bliss, and happiness, and all these things, too.
49:12
We're humans. We're going to feel it all if
49:14
you want to And I believe I'm a firm believer.
49:16
There's no such thing as balance.
49:18
All right, there, you just, there's no work-life balance or,
49:20
like, even ballerinas they look like, they're balancing, but
49:22
they're not balancing their, this counter balancing.
49:24
Their toes are moving real fast, you know what I'm saying?
49:26
Like, there's no such thing as balance, right?
49:28
But I do believe that there is Harmony, and I believe, if you
49:31
just focus on only the things that you can control, and you
49:35
keep those small promises, that you make to yourself, that's how
49:38
you get into that flow of life that Harmony.
49:41
That's what I would leave everybody with love it.
49:43
Send it there, Zach. I'll let you I know you got to
49:45
get for everybody who's looking for a book out there, you could
49:51
get it. And I measure success, I wrote
49:53
one called nightmare success, it's on Amazon Barnes & Noble,
49:57
even Walmart. The likes and all the social
50:00
media comments. If anybody wants to leave me a
50:02
message on broadcast.com, I'd love that follow the show.
50:07
And like I used to say, when I was out, you know, right in my
50:10
e-mails. Back from behind the Prison
50:12
Walls. Stay strong and I'll do the
50:14
same. Now I measure success, Is in and
50:15
out. Thanks everybody.