Latest / MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose / Episode 151: Making Marriage Easier: Week 1 with Arlene Pellicane

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Episode 151: Making Marriage Easier: Week 1 with Arlene Pellicane · MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose

• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Cynthia Gannoff and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hey friends, I'm glad you're here.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, I'm glad I'm here because I don't know if you noticed, but last week we did not release a show.
• 0:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm telling you this because I want to give you a little bit of permission like I'm giving myself permission to acknowledge and accept the fact that it's summer and it's crazy.
• 0:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: And we're all trying to keep a lot of balls in the air.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes you just have to let something go and say, you know what, it's gonna be okay.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what happened with last week's podcasts.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just could not quite get it out the door.
• 0:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I gave myself some grace and said, all right, we're all going to survive it.
• 0:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
• 0:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so here's a little permission to you.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever feels like it's overwhelming or too much or just in the moment, you can't get it done.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: Hey.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's summer and it's okay.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we are back this week and I am thrilled to be talking marriage with you for two weeks.
• 0:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like we do a lot of shows on marriage, but I was reading through my book mail when I get books in the mail, people that are sending me things to be considered for the podcast.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: When I was going through it, I saw this book by Arlene Pelican and it's called Making Marriage Easier.
• 1:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I started reading through it and I loved it so much because it is so practical.
• 1:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've been reading quotes to Mike the last several days as I was getting ready to interview Arlene.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I like about it is how she says, we've got to pre-decide some things.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some things about our attitude about how we're going to conduct ourselves, what we're going to prioritize.
• 1:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it is really, really practical and meaningful and good.
• 1:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I love this book.
• 1:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're going to spend two weeks talking to Arlene.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is week one.
• 1:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I hope it encourages you.
• 1:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it will.
• 1:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you will listen to this, you know, like, yeah, these are some small things that will make a big difference in my marriage.
• 1:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to encourage you to grab a copy of the book.
• 1:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's called making marriage easier, but we will have two weeks where we are kind of unpacking some of my favorite points from the book.
• 2:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm excited to have Arlene with us before we start the interview, though.
• 2:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I would love to ask you to do me a favor.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Would you go to my website, send the againoff.com and on the front page, you can sign up to get emails from me.
• 2:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you don't already get them, would you do that?
• 2:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And let me promise you something.
• 2:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't get a lot of mail from me.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, heck, I couldn't even get a podcast out last week.
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I can assure you, you're not going to get a lot of mail.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: But once a week, you will get a reminder that the podcast is out with notes about it.
• 2:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: But the reason I really want you to sign up is because I'm praying through and thinking through some different things related to this podcast going forward.
• 2:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Some changes I want to make, some things that I want to consider, but I also want to ask you guys some questions, a survey of sorts.
• 2:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so would you take a second, go to Cynthiaganoff.com, just put in your email address,
• 2:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And then from there, you will hear from me once in a blue moon, I promise, definitely once a week, but not much more than that.
• 2:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you can help me evaluate and you can weigh in on what we do with mesmerized in the coming months.
• 3:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So would love for you to do that, would be so appreciative.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, here we go.
• 3:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Can you get off with Arlene?
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Arlene, welcome to mesmerized.
• 3:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
• 3:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing pretty good.
• 3:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's good to see you.
• 3:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's good to see you.
• 3:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: You and I are on quite different time zones, but as we're recording at summer, and we're up and at them, and we're surviving, we're doing it, right?
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right.
• 3:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, people are home.
• 3:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: What do we do now?
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's going on totally my house has never felt so small and it's not particularly small But I'm telling you like everybody gets in here.
• 3:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, oh wow the walls are closing And but it's like this is what we wanted.
• 3:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is your meal.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that is so much of it like wait This is really great.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love this.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I love this.
• 3:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just have to tell ourselves that exactly Tell everybody just kind of your stage of life and just what you do daily
• 3:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, so I have the three main things in terms of ministry podcast, happy on podcast, speaking to churches, conferences, schools, and books.
• 4:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And my latest book is making marriage easier, which we will hit upon.
• 4:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then upon, I sound so official when I say, I like it.
• 4:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was very formal.
• 4:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of came out and I was like, why did I use that word?
• 4:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it was too weird.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're too poor.
• 4:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here to form shall refer to it.
• 4:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: In MME, making marriage easier.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like that.
• 4:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I like that very much.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I write about technology.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a new technology book, not quite titled yet.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: Coming out in the fall, but just helping us to reset our homes if they are centered around too much technology, or if the tech has just come into early and is kind of messing with the kids childhood.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: We have three children.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: My husband and I've been married for 27 years.
• 4:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: We live in San Diego, and our kids are Ethan, Noel Lucy, and when I started this whole writing thing, they were like, one, and three, and five, and now they're 21, 19, 16, a college grad, a college student, and one that's going to be a senior in high school.
• 4:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of a grasp of that empty nesting.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
• 5:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you are so many things I want to hit on that.
• 5:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: So a couple just comments.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I have one going into law school one in college and then I have a fourth graders.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So so all the different ages and stages like you're saying and then second of all, I need to comment on your technology book.
• 5:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to my kids out this last night.
• 5:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: My older ones are home.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: And somebody a good friend of mine Heather gave me a crafting kit.
• 5:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I pulled it out and I'm not a big crafter at all.
• 5:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we are all watching baseball with my husband.
• 5:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we were doing our little crafts at, well, me and my daughter weren't least when college son wasn't.
• 5:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, okay, we need a rework on technology.
• 5:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm the worst defender.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: If we're watching TV, I also want my phone in my hand.
• 5:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And like, I can't, like, I have to scan my phone while also watching TV, while also answering questions.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's a problem, isn't that funny?
• 5:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you think, like, wait, how did I get this way that I cannot just watch this movie?
• 5:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I could not be still enough to watch this movie.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: I can watch this movie plus scroll through this.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, oh, plus.
• 6:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so you can imagine we are full grown adults with pretty much, you know, well-formed brains and we're having trouble with this.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: You put that into a hand of a 12-year-old, it's like, wow, what's going to happen.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Come on, mess.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
• 6:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was just, I was thinking like, was we were doing this like little, it's like a bookmark, basically bedazzling something.
• 6:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we're talking no brain power, but it did keep us off our phones and more present, it was interesting.
• 6:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and then third thing, San Diego.
• 6:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of unfair.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm not gonna try to defend myself.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not good.
• 6:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: I was just there a couple weeks ago with I took our youngest.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: My husband's had a lawsuit there.
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's a attorney.
• 6:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's not involved in one himself.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you much more pleasant.
• 6:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's more pleasant.
• 6:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've been going back and forth and said we went and we were in La Joyette.
• 6:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: We went and saw this film and all the things.
• 6:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I walked around.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: We went to the San Diego Zoo.
• 6:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: We did all the things.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my goodness.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it was fabulous.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, again, I'm in.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Texas.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: I need to understand if God is good, how did I end up here in your there but well what's funny right and then all of my friends will think like well our state has you know very it doesn't have great it's not a great place to raise children let's put it that right I got and then and then we'll say oh we should go to Texas because that's a great place to show you what they don't wait
• 7:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I hear what you're saying.
• 7:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, my husband just went back for another something in that case a few days ago, and my youngest it went with such last time he goes, you're not allowed to go to San Diego without me as a amen brother.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: So
• 7:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I can think my parents were that one because they lived here first and we relocated 26 years ago to be close to them.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: So thank you to them and that's really the main reason we're here.
• 7:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I've read in your book that you were in Dallas for some amount of time, which is where I am.
• 7:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So our friend Amvass Camp always says, when she teases me about Bell, she's like, the Lord is going to come back there first, I think.
• 7:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because like, I, you know, it seems like a bunch of Christian speakers and people live here.
• 7:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I said, well, maybe that's the only thing we've got going.
• 8:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But so.
• 8:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk making marriage easier.
• 8:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is why I was telling you, I went through a bunch of books that had come in the mail and I was excited to see yours.
• 8:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And recently I got to do focus on the family and I was talking about my book there.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they said something that stuck with me and they said really, really it's hard for us to find content on normal marriages and I'm air quoting normal.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: we can find a lot of content on marriages that maybe are on the brink of divorce or marriages where there's been infidelity, all these different things, but just like standard everyday marriages that a lot of us are in and I don't mean to underplay that, but it's hard to find really good practical content.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that stuck with me when they were saying that at focus and then I saw your book, I'm like, well here it is, focus on the family.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's called making marriage easier and I
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for the book.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And why is it called making marriage easier instead of easy?
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, because I don't want to lie.
• 8:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's like that's like you shall not bear false witness.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: Grandma, number nine.
• 9:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: But but it could be easier.
• 9:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: So why are we making it so hard?
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of things that could just be like small tweaks in a marriage could be like, wow.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: I am not so angry at you right now, or I am not so daily annoyed by this thing because we fix this little thing.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: I remember Dr. Gary Chapman would talk about how his wife Carolyn would leave the cabinet doors open, the drawers open.
• 9:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: It was just driving nuts, like why do you not close these things?
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: Why do I walk into a kitchen and all these things are open?
• 9:29
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so there's just a huge irritant in his life and he couldn't get her to close them.
• 9:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he just made this decision, you know what?
• 9:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to get Ben out of shape about this.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to walk into the room, shut a few doors, and move on with my life.
• 9:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
• 9:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that was this little thing he did to make that daily problem go away.
• 9:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the heart of the book making marriage easier.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: What are the decisions we can make?
• 9:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Non-emotional, not to do with our feelings, but things we pre-decide.
• 9:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is how this is going to work on our marriage.
• 10:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: Start having fun again together, all those things, and it just makes marriage so much easier.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in the same way, so my mom and I go to this neighborhood, spin by class, it's really, really funny.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And we've been doing it for 21 years, and because it's an appointment, okay, we have to go every Tuesday and Thursday.
• 10:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: My mom's gonna be there, I can't disappoint her.
• 10:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's been very easy to go.
• 10:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: We pay money, we don't wanna like lose our money.
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in the same way, with marriage, we'll just say like, oh, I wanna have a better marriage, just the same way we would say, oh, I wanna exercise.
• 10:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: But unless there's something to help you, right?
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: A class to go to the shoes by the door, to make it easier to do that thing.
• 10:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So hopefully my book, when people read it, they'll, okay, this is, I see something concrete that I can do in my marriage.
• 10:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's not very hard, but it will really make my marriage easier.
• 10:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we get very all or nothing about marriage.
• 10:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we are parenting too, but we're like well, it either needs a massive overhaul or just never going to be good and you I love the book atomic habits actually in my new book to it.
• 11:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: I noticed you did and you have this quote, I think it's so good.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You said from a topic habits, you said,
• 11:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, it's so easy to overestimate the importance of one defining moment and underestimate the value of making small improvements on a daily basis.
• 11:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Too often we convince ourselves that massive success requires massive action.
• 11:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why we are talking today because I think we all fall into that.
• 11:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, either the finances have to be complete.
• 11:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to be in counseling and I'm not knocking counseling.
• 11:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think we all need at some point, I'm here to it.
• 11:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: We have to be in counseling and we have to be on the brink of disaster before we're going to make a change and you're saying like, hey, listen, let's just pre decide, which is great wording, pre decide some things we're going to do and so let's start with some of the decisions and what we're going to do everyone here's little.
• 11:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: behind the scenes or in front of where we're headed kind of thing.
• 11:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go, we're going to do this in two weeks because I think the content is so good and I want you guys to have time to digest.
• 12:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so the first week we're going to, we're going to talk about decision.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: She should pre-decide a couple of things, but decision number one.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, and it's playing by the rules because it's so good.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: But talk to us just generally, what are some of these decision points that you talk about in the book that we can pre-decide on?
• 12:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so that first decision played by the rules and we'll get into that decision number two give thanks every day go back to that day that you got married you were very thankful you were not complaining you're not grudging you're not comparing you didn't think your spouse was like well I hope I get a better one than this you know you were not thinking anything like that so how do we retain that like how do we keep being thankful so that decision of I will give thanks to God.
• 12:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: decision number three serve your spouse, not about being a dormant, not about losing your identity, but having that general attitude, hey honey, is there anything I can do for you?
• 12:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: Is there anything I can help you with instead of you wake up, hour goes by.
• 13:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: you used it, you know, poor me coffee and you used to do this.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: What have you done for me lately?
• 13:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: I do all this stuff for you and you do nothing for me.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right.
• 13:12
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you start in that vein and you start feeding that.
• 13:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I serve you all the time and you never serve me.
• 13:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And boy, you can see the poison coming to your marriage.
• 13:20
  [SPEAKER_02]: But if you just very simply, you know, hey, honey, is there anything I can do for you?
• 13:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: That attitude is what I'm after that disposition most likely your spouse is going to say, oh, if you can spend the next three hours doing something that would help me You know, they're going to be like, hey, I'm good honey.
• 13:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for asking.
• 13:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, are they're going to say like, oh, if you could like, you know help me get a glass of water on my way out I'm running late whatever like it's not going to be a big deal.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: So serve your spouse and then decision number four is take fun Seriously, it's perfect for for our mesmerized audience Is that we used to be so fun when we were dating we're like so fun and
• 13:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then you get five years, 10 years, 15 years.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, my husband will say, where is that really silly, crazy girl that I was dating?
• 14:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, yeah, she is buried under email right now.
• 14:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: So just like, how do you keep having fun?
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you don't, it just becomes bills and schedules and routine and there's nothing fun.
• 14:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: driving anything and you cannot wait till we have enough money.
• 14:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: You just can't wait that long.
• 14:26
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the question there to ask is, you know, when was the last time we had fun together?
• 14:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: And if you cannot come up with anything, then this is the decision you want to start with when you pick up gay marriages here.
• 14:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am in the state of life.
• 14:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: I bet you are to where my kids friends are all getting married.
• 14:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I go to a lot of weddings right now.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that you said think back to that day, because I just went to a wedding a couple of weekends ago in North Carolina.
• 14:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I love this bride a dearest one of my daughter's very best friends.
• 14:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: She's the most beautiful glowing bride.
• 14:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: getty and sweet and excited and everything's in front of you.
• 15:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I, there's a dichotomy between what I'm looking at up there on the, you know, at the altar and I'm sitting with my husband of 25 years and of course,
• 15:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: We've lived some life, right, but I think if we can shrink the gap between what's going on at the altar and what's sitting in the pew on the row I think that that's what my hope is that we get to talk about and so we're gonna start by playing Decision number one play by the rules, which I thought was so good like I just highlighted the whole thing I'm like well, I don't know why we're highlighting at this point Let me ask you this when you say play by the rules are these rules that you guys put in
• 15:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And do you think they translate for everyone, which I think the answer is yes, because it's in your book, but do you also think maybe like, hey, step back from some of these, they may not be exactly the same rules think of your own like how does that work.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so this is exactly what we're saying yes and no, so there are going to be some rules there for all of us and obviously the rules at the Bible of husbands love lives respect, you know.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: keep the marriage bed.
• 16:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: Holy, all of those are rules.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: Marriage is a covenant for life.
• 16:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: Those are rules that we want to keep and the idea of this is if you play sports and the goal keeps changing or the rules change or like, hey, you were on my team, you're on the other team.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's very confusing.
• 16:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: So in marriage there are going to be those bedrock things like we just what I just said that every marriage does, but then there's going to be things like according to your marriage culture.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is what we do.
• 16:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you came from a family of yellers and you make it a rule.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, we are not going to be that way.
• 16:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: We are not going to yell at each other.
• 16:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: One of our playing by the rules is we're going to eat together every day and it's not this legalistic thing or it's like, oh, what do we do like you're in a late can I even put something in my mouth.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's just it's just the idea of, hey, in normal life, we will wait for each other and we'll eat together and we'll sit together as a family and when.
• 16:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: their family sports, then maybe that has to push back an hour.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, whatever is you're adapting to it, and you're trying to do it, and maybe dinners, not your things, you can't do it.
• 17:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's breakfast and you're sitting and you're having coffee together.
• 17:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're starting to, the, the day together because the thing is you have to eat like this is something that has to happen.
• 17:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we talked about a topic habits, you know, coupling that with that habit of being together is very wise.
• 17:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: So that's one of our rules is we eat together together.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: And believe it or not, that's very countercultural because, you know, we've, I've had my, my kids friends come over and we're all eating around the table and they're like later they'll ask my daughter.
• 17:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys do that all the time?
• 17:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, can we do that every day?
• 17:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like the feeling of a holiday.
• 17:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: She was like, that was very weird because she said, we just get our food and then like go to our own rooms, go to our own places and then do our homework or watch TV or whatever.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And it was very odd to her.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I love that role.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I love that you're saying there's certain ones that you can put in place for your own relationships.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: I remember when Mike and I Mike and I met in law school both have law degrees.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I obviously don't practice law anymore, but early on we both said that we were going to fight like fair.
• 18:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we were going to, it wasn't going to be a cross-examination.
• 18:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're both lawyers.
• 18:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: We can argue really well.
• 18:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we also, we can interrogate really well because we both have just had very intense cases where we've had to do a lot of digging and all.
• 18:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, we don't want to live that way in our marriage.
• 18:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so for us, that was one of those things.
• 18:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I love that you can kind of look and be specific in your marriage.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: But eating together every day, that's something we've also implemented.
• 18:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I will give you a little sub-hack to that.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I used to get really annoyed everyone when I we would sit down to eat and I'd be like, tell me at your day, I'm a big talker, obviously.
• 18:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Mike is a medium to low talker.
• 18:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I don't mean volume.
• 18:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean just in how many words he needs to speak.
• 18:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I, we sit down and be like, tell you at your day and he'd be like, oh, it's good.
• 18:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Or you know, he'd like, and finally I was like, I'm going to lose my mind.
• 18:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I asked him, I'm like, could you during the day keep like a little index card and just write down three to four things that happened during the day that we can talk about?
• 19:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: at night and he does in it works because I literally I he really couldn't he wouldn't try to be you know elusive to this he didn't have anything interesting and even if I don't think the four things are interesting I still want to know and so just put little hacks in there so I love that and how good was he to do that and he does to be like sweet things like what are you doing lawyer man I'm writing something down on my index
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: Or to tell what?
• 19:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Why did you make a card so that I have something to talk about at dinner?
• 19:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So my wife is happy.
• 19:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 19:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: OK, this is maybe my favorite of the ones you get that you talk about when we're talking out playing by the rules.
• 19:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: You said, keep dragons small.
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you have a Mr. Rogers quote, I believe, where you say, and maybe some of Mr. Rogers, yes it is.
• 19:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is.
• 19:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anything mentionedable is manageable.
• 19:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: That is a fabulous quote.
• 19:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Anything mentionedable is manageable.
• 19:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the unmentioned rules that will turn into flame breathing dragons in your mind.
• 19:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I really like thought about that over and over.
• 20:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so keeping dragons small, I've said this a lot on this podcast.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: You will find what you're looking for in marriage.
• 20:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you were focused on the negative, if you were decided he is selfish and I'm just going to focus on something like you're going to find it.
• 20:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to get to gratitude later, but the same thing is if you're looking for positive you will find of that and this idea of keeping the dragon small not letting small things become big things I think is like maybe the best marriage advice I've heard so talk to us about that.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it is the idea of it's okay to talk about those these things now I have two stories for you the first was when we were dating seriously dating very much in love seriously dating and he said I have something I want to tell you.
• 20:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: ask you, but I don't know how to say it.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, whoa, I hope this is not the proposal people.
• 20:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: We said, you have these hairs on your lip.
• 20:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wondering if you ever thought of a like, trosses.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, oh, I could have signed it.
• 20:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: So more to find it in Paris.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like,
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: No, I really have a look at the time.
• 21:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have to go and I just got out.
• 21:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: I would look straight to the bathroom.
• 21:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: Look at my, you know, what I've always just thought is like a little peach fuzz and then I'm looking at it and I feel like Groucho marks and I'm like, that's a person with a lot of hair on their lip if you don't know who that is.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, this is ridiculous.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I cannot believe this.
• 21:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I, there were phone pages at that time, yellow pages.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I forgot to do that thing laser laser laser laser.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I got those things zapped off.
• 21:30
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for my husband to be, he was like, if I cannot tell her, ask her.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, you've got this hair on your lip and kind of bugs me a little.
• 21:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, can I even talk about that?
• 21:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: Cause if I can't talk about that, then how am I going to talk about where we live and how many children we're going to have?
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right?
• 21:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: All these really important things.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_02]: So he was like, I'm going to do it.
• 21:52
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I am going to do it.
• 21:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Now, whenever I share that story right, women are just like, I can't believe that right, like, totally.
• 21:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, public enemy number one.
• 22:01
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you do not say things like that.
• 22:04
  [SPEAKER_02]: So for us, it's like whoever's saying the thing, for them to feel free to say it.
• 22:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: And for the receiver, instead of defending, instead of going crazy, instead of shutting down all those things, maybe you can't say anything in the moment.
• 22:18
  [SPEAKER_02]: And like me, I had to leave and like, look at myself in the bathroom, but like, okay, I see that.
• 22:22
  [SPEAKER_02]: I will go, you know, so I'm not saying that this hard thing is said in all of a sudden, you're going to produce this amazing response.
• 22:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it may be like, wow, that was hard for me to hear.
• 22:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for sharing that I'm going to think about that and I'm going to get back to you.
• 22:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: Right, so you don't, but the idea is you can say anything.
• 22:41
  [SPEAKER_02]: That is the kind of safety you want in your marriage that you can, and obviously the person who is saying the words.
• 22:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like when he said this about my lip, he wasn't like, okay, he was very like tentative.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know how to say this, but I'm gonna say it.
• 22:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So the person who's delivering such news to do it as best possible.
• 23:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I will give you like a much more recent example,
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_02]: We get storylines in our mind.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: So it's usually like, he is so selfish.
• 23:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: She is so selfish, right?
• 23:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's a very easy one.
• 23:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll think to myself, he is so selfish, and it's kind of building, building in my mind.
• 23:21
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm seeing things, I'm looking for it, I'm looking for it.
• 23:23
  [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm thinking to myself, I want to say something, but I really kind of don't.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: But then I'll think about my book, and it says, Arlene, you say you can say anything so maybe you should.
• 23:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we're in the car, and I mentioned this, right?
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he was like, okay, give me an example of that.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: And he was very like not mad.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_02]: He was just like, okay, give me an example.
• 23:42
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then I was like, oh, an example.
• 23:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, well at night, you always, you always pick the YouTube videos.
• 23:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: they'll be like about finances or, you know, and I'll think, oh, perfect, I'll just fall asleep.
• 23:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is great.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll put it right.
• 23:55
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, but you usually pick, like if there's something to watch, you pick it.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, I've said that, and then he's like, okay, well, how can we, what can we do about that?
• 24:05
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, and I made, and I was like, okay, well, then we could take turns.
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, okay, and then I realized, oh, this big thing that I've made in my mind, once we talk about it, it's like, oh, you're not a monster.
• 24:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: You want to know, and you want to work on this, and this is actually, and then you feel almost like that was not even a big deal what I said, so don't be afraid to say the things and you'll just keep having to do this for your old married life.
• 24:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right, but I love that and a couple of things.
• 24:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've read any of john a cast stuff or if you've had them on your podcast a little bit john a cast.
• 24:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: that he talks about the soundtrack.
• 24:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we all have the soundtrack set our head.
• 24:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that's kind of the thing like what's the narrative around?
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whatever it is, the YouTube videos or the who takes out the trash or doesn't.
• 24:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And why don't we just address those things?
• 24:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because literally if this is the person you married, if this is the person on the day you married him that is going to be the most for you that you're going to love.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: You know, more than anybody or anything absent the Lord, then like we should continue having these conversations and and what I love about you as you came up with one example, this is the lawyer again that we I have to fight because if he says give me an example, I want to give the last 27 things he's done and
• 25:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's just restraint in that and we're going to get to this, um, we're going to get to this next actually, um, I'm skipping one.
• 25:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm skipping one right now because y'all can read the book, but keep dragging small talk to learning new things prior to prioritize your marriage over the kids.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: These are amazing.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: You need to read these speak kindly to each other.
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that one gets me and you are mentioning how you were like having this situation and then your book pops in your head.
• 25:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's what happens.
• 25:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: You guys when you write a book.
• 25:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: It's true.
• 25:48
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I should read early.
• 25:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's everything that happens in my life.
• 25:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I just wrote a book saying that that's not how we operate.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I should probably operate differently.
• 25:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, but this speaking kindly to each other.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: I thought was so good.
• 26:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you even have a you have a little like.
• 26:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: statistic in there, as I'm flipping to it, everyone.
• 26:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it talks about just the ratio.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, in marriages that stay together, there is a five to one ratio of positive comments to negative ones.
• 26:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and this is a study.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Dr. Gottman, I believe.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: But let's talk about this for a second.
• 26:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because how do we talk to each other?
• 26:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Would we talk to each other?
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: like in front of the public at large this way, like walk us through this a little bit.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that common courtesy, like wow, I would not even treat a stranger.
• 26:36
  [SPEAKER_02]: I just met the way I just treated you.
• 26:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think at the baseline, there is a common courtesy to protect to think this is the most valuable.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_02]: person in my life.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: And even if I am steaming mad at this most valuable person, I should give them the common courtesy of just treating them as well.
• 26:53
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I treat the stranger, you know, the caricature of like you're yelling at your spouse and then the phone rings are hello.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_02]: Get us such a, yeah, no, that you do have control over how you are treating them.
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_02]: And you obviously can say the truth, but nobody wants to be around someone who is constantly finding fault, right?
• 27:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: We all have a person in our life like this, a friend, a coworker, a relative that's
• 27:15
  [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, where'd you get that?
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_02]: That's really, you know what ever it is that you just know they are gonna find fault with whatever it is that I'm wearing, I say, and you avoid that person, because you don't want that.
• 27:27
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we really wanna guard against becoming that kind of person to our spouse where they know, oh, here she comes.
• 27:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: She's got something negative to say about me.
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_02]: So we can fight that by saying, okay, I recognize that, that that's what I've kind of slowly drifted into.
• 27:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna fight that by keeping a journal of just the same way that Mike had that index card.
• 27:49
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're gonna keep a little index card of like, oh, that was super nice what he said or I like the way he looks today or he goes to work and I don't have to push him out the door.
• 27:59
  [SPEAKER_02]: He's not lazy, you know, whatever it is, you are now looking.
• 28:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: for the things that are good and then you're speaking these out, you're saying, hey honey, I appreciate man, you go to work, whether you feel like it or not, you're faithful, you provide for our family, you work hard, I just appreciate that so much.
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then that happens five times.
• 28:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: And then when that one negative thing comes in, it's got a lot of trampoline there to bounce off of verses like, man, you just keep reaming me all the time.
• 28:25
  [SPEAKER_02]: So, and this is scripture.
• 28:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: This is, you know, all the things and Ephesians that we read about be forgiving to one another, be kindhearted, all these things that are the best practice of being more sanctified being more like Jesus.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_02]: You practice with your spouse because they're the ones with you, the most.
• 28:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: So if you can put the law of kindness,
• 28:46
  [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the proper 31 woman that has the love kindness on her mouth on her tongue.
• 28:51
  [SPEAKER_02]: If we have that love kindness, it really does help emerge so much.
• 28:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, by the way, everything in her book is totally rooted in scripture and so good.
• 29:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's really God's plan for our marriages.
• 29:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I will say one practical hack I use when I think about this speaking Cali Darswell's, I think often like, would I want my son's wife to speak to him that way?
• 29:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because the mom of Baron me, I'm like, oh, gosh, no.
• 29:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like he's trying so hard.
• 29:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like I have every defense of my son, like he's so kind, he tries so hard, he's so well,
• 29:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: My husband is someone's son too and I need to speak to him the way I want someone to speak to my son and to give the same to defenses towards him.
• 29:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, that's a, that's a great word.
• 29:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I'm going to reach all the last one, but we're not going to go through it because we, we are going to read the book because it's so good.
• 29:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I really, really love this one too.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: You talk at the end about until death do as part.
• 29:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And, um, just, well, I'm going to let you explain that, that sub point, and then we won't get that much into it.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Y'all can read it, but I thought it was really important.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that you are going for the long view of marriage.
• 30:00
  [SPEAKER_02]: So maybe you're in a rough spot right now.
• 30:02
  [SPEAKER_02]: Not to get stuck there, but to realize, okay, 10 years from now, 20 years from now, 30 years from now.
• 30:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: You know, kids are graduated.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're retired.
• 30:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're together.
• 30:10
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're serving together.
• 30:11
  [SPEAKER_02]: You're doing things together.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_02]: that you have these expectations that there are seasons of marriage, and you want the seasons to be good.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And the way you make these seasons good is by planting something today that will grow tomorrow.
• 30:24
  [SPEAKER_02]: And so it is this idea that kind of prepare for those years all the time, and that looks like don't become too child centric, so everything's about the children.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_02]: So you still have activities that you do as husband and wife together, go to church together that you make these regular habits of being in worship together, finding service things together so that when you do enter the season of life where you do have more time, that's what the an hour told that this is what's going to happen to us right as you get older that you are ready and so you make pre decisions to protect that.
• 30:58
  [SPEAKER_02]: So these pre-decisions might be like, you know, I'm not going to allow myself to have a meal or coffee with someone of the opposite sex alone, right?
• 31:07
  [SPEAKER_02]: If you're in a business situation, whatever, and there's three of you, great.
• 31:09
  [SPEAKER_02]: But just if you realize, oh, there's just me in this man, then we're like, oh, you know what?
• 31:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: I have this, I have this rule in our house that we don't have meals like that, so could we invite somebody else?
• 31:19
  [SPEAKER_02]: And those are things that's you saying, okay, until death to his part, we've got to go to the distance.
• 31:28
  [SPEAKER_02]: It could happen to me, like I could mess up.
• 31:31
  [SPEAKER_02]: I could be drawn into an affair.
• 31:33
  [SPEAKER_02]: I could become this, you know, critical person, that knowledge, I mean, no wonder God blesses the humble because then you're you're you're growing, you're
• 31:43
  [SPEAKER_02]: You, you're not so proud to think that would never happen to me.
• 31:47
  [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's really important.
• 31:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, these are so good.
• 31:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: And just so pretty knows, by the way, we only covered decision number one, and we didn't really even cover it.
• 31:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: We just hit some highlight.
• 31:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's how much, like, they didn't even go over the sex chapter.
• 32:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you guys, well, if you know anything about this show, you know what, that skipped.
• 32:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I told my kids, Arlene, I referred to their body parts as their front bottom and their back bottom.
• 32:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: I told you were like, junior high.
• 32:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like we have a small,
• 32:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: issue over here.
• 32:14
  [SPEAKER_02]: So yes, those are good words.
• 32:16
  [SPEAKER_02]: I'm I'm all for that.
• 32:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there is good information on intimacy and and let me give you a little as hack.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's not optional.
• 32:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Our lane is going to throw that down for everyone.
• 32:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So there you go.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, one thanks for being here and everyone's come back next week.
• 32:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are going to do another couple decision points with practical advice with precious our lane.
• 32:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So thanks for being here, friend.
• 32:38
  [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
• 32:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, you guys, I know you enjoyed her.
• 32:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am sure learning a lot from her book, and I think I needed some practical brush-ups, some tips, and I needed to focus on some things in my marriage, and this has been really helpful.
• 32:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So come back next week for week two, and also, I said at the beginning, I'm gonna say it one more time, would you take a minute and go to sentiaganoff.com and sign up for my email.
• 33:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: and get it once a week and I'm going to ask some questions, take some surveys and kind of get your vibe on what we want to do the next several months and just some changes I'm thinking about making to mesmerize.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, Cynthiaganoff.com.
• 33:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, you guys, thanks for being a part of the mesmerized family.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're the very best.