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Transcript

Can Cardinals solve their starting pitching problem? · Cardinal Territory: A St. Louis Cardinals Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hi, Hello, and welcome live from Denver International Airport, where
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I am doing my best to make it back to
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Saint Louis. It is the bottom of the seventh is
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: a two two ball game. The Cubs and Cardinals are
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: playing right now on Sunday at Baseball. You'll see this
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: episode slightly after what I'm sure you hope as the
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Cardinals win. A good pictures tool for Shoda Emanaga and
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Sunny Bray just a pair of solo or to run
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: homers the deciding sport, which is a great topic to
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: talk about because I'd like to talk about the starting rotation. Guys,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it, coming back from a bachelorette party.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: You have not watched the last three games of Cardinals baseball,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: have not really talked to people of an organization. I'm
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: not going to win a lot of awards for presentation
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: here or just bear with me. I have my sunglasses
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: still on my head. I'm realizing it's eight pm. There's
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: no sun out still whatever to s roll with it.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Some podcast episodes we crushed, some which just kind of
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: get through. That's one of those. Let's talk about the
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: starting rotation because even though I wasn't watching the games.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I was, of course checking in on the box scores,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and a clear difference in Friday's win and Saturday's loss.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Friday's win six innings, a squirrels fall for Michael McGreevy,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Saturday's loss a short to start for undred Plante in
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: his career. The game was essentially over by the second inning,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: and it just did not look good. Now this is
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: not necessarily excuse me, Oh good, my flight was delayed
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: for the eightieth time today. Doing great. It's fine, you guys.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: This is beat writer travel. It is what it is.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: When you look at the difference between Michael mcgreey Andret Pilante,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: it's simple. It just comes down to execution. And we
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: have seen this story from the Cardinals rotation all year long,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: especially in July, and we know essentially that July sunk
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: their season. This is a team that John Mozela said
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: on the ESPN broadcast tonight that comes make May. In June,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: they were looking to add, they were maybe looking to
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: make a competitive second half. July more or less sunk
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: their season in terms of what to do with the
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: trade deadline. And that's why Ryan Helsley, Stephen Matts and
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: film Aton are no longer Cardinals. So what does this
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: mean for the starting rotation. Well, let's project what it's
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: going to look like in twenty twenty six. You have
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: four spots with Miles michaelis most likely not getting you know,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: going to be a free agent. Have Sunny Gray, Matthew Liberator,
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: Michael McGreevey, Andre To Wante and who potentially Kyle Wahey
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: when Matthews wo he's ready, probably gonna have to do
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: a free agent signing just to get some depth. And
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: this concerns me because that above rotation, with the exception
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of Sunny Gray, is one obviously incomplete, and two raises
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: the exact same number of concerns as this year and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: last year and the year before.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: Where's this one gonna miss?
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: Where is the stuff you simply cannot in this day
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and age of Major League Baseball roll out of primary
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: pitch to contact staff and expect to give your team
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: it's best chance to win every day?
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Does it work? Sometimes?
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yes, and pitchers like mcgreeby and Libby have shown that
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: this is not a one all, be all situation. But
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: to quote Allie Normal, you're playing with fire when your
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: entire rotation relies on the weak ground ball and essentially
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: getting lucky because you can shift your defense and play
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: sharing field to an extent however you like, but you
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: still run the risk of the very simple concept.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: Sometimes balls that are hit get through. So Who's up?
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Tk Robie would have been super exciting, but he underwent
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Tommy john surgery or in August. Yes, William Doyle is
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a huge step in the right direction. The Cardinals number
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: one pick in twenty twenty six. That's exactly the kind
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: of skill set that the Cardinals should be targeting. But
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: in terms of who the Cardinals have knocked down the
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: door right now in Triple A, there's no one. And
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: that's a huge concern, especially when you think about this concept.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: What if the Cardinals don't bring back Sunny Gray in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, Sunny will be owed thirty five million
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: dollars next season, and that is a hefty price tag
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: to pay for an organization that is committing to downsizing
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: and is.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Most likely going to see their payroll decrease next year.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: While Cardinals leadership has not exactly come out and said that,
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I think we can all look at the direction of
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: the team. The trajectory of spending last year, how they
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: didn't spend it all, really the firm focus that they're
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: playing or putting into financing player development, and just come
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to think that three to two now, Nolan Gorman singled,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: just kind of think that this is not a pay
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: that's essentially going to allow for contracts like that. Now,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: of course there's the note trade clause. Sunny Gray has
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: a full note trade clause and has shown no inclination
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: of looking to waive it. But it is an interesting
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: problem for the Cardinals to have. I love this deal
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: when the Cardinals made it in heading into twenty twenty four,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: and I really loved it when Sunny Gray was making
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: ten million dollars in twenty twenty four, I thought it
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: was okay. This year with him making twenty five thirty
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: five million dollars for an ace pitcher for a club
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: looking to rebuild, is hefty, and I'm not sure the Cardinals'
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: ownership wants to pay that. I'm not sure if they
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: have a choice, not only because of the no trade clause,
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: but because there is simply nobody in Triple A right now.
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: There's zero Depp, and this is a bigger problem for
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: hein blue, him blue in the new front office. It's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: not like the Cardinals have arms knocking on the door
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: ready for Triple A or ready for the majors.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: They don't not even close.
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, if there's an injury and knock on Wood,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know of anyone that could. Maybe you could
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: spot in that you feel comfortable about for the future.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Curtis Taylor could maybe do it. Aeron Wilkerson maybe, but
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: those aren't names that you're like, yeah, twenty twenty six,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: let's get excited about. So that's the big question for
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: the off season, several of them. If the Cardinals will
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: keep sunny gray, but more or less, if you start
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: looking at what next year is going to look like,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: it has to start with the rotation, and this rotation
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: has to have more swing and miss than it does
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I don't know if Ongar palante Is long term career
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: is as a starter.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I think he could be much more effective as a reliever,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: though I do not fault the Cardinals for their experiment
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: with him this year.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Say, with my deliberatory you need to know what you
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: have in those guys.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: But it's getting really hard every fifth day when Falante
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: takes them out to just know the hard contact is there.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: It doesn't really give your chance or your team a
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: chance to win that you.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Have today the bottom of the seventh Sunny Grays will
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: again a lot of two earned runs over seven innings. Now,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: so it sounds simple, guys, but you're only as good
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: as to start a pitching and the cardinal thing to
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: figure that out. All right, we'll be right back up.
• 5:48
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• 6:55
  Speaker 1: All right, let's get into our Draft Kings player to
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: watch this upcoming series. The Cardinals will finished the homestand
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: with three games against the Rockies. In three games against
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the New York Yankees, Paul Golschmid's coming to town. Yay,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: let's hear about it. Here's where we're looking at a
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: DraftKings player spotlight. For me, it's Nolan Gorman and I'm
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: talking about Nolan Gorman the defense at third baseman, not
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: to be left handed hitter. It has not looked super
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: athletic for Gorman at the hot corner right now, and
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I'll grant him some grace. It's been a very long
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: time since the Cardinals asked him to play a third
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: base consistently. But with Nolan Arnado on the aisle, and
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: definitely Gorman's going to get the bulk of the reps
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: at third base until he proves that he just simply
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: can't do it or isn't athletic an epty handle that position.
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about Nolan Arnado. An update
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: for him. He's traveled to roder Dean or what's left
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: of it. They're doing some major renovations at that complex
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: and he's working on a shoulder strengthening program that's going
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: to take probably the next seven days at this point
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: before resuming baseball activities. There is still no timetable for
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: his return, but I maintain that we will see him
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: again on the Cardinals uniform at some point this season,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: maybe around September when rosters expand. But that part, it's
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: just simply my speculation. For Nolan Gorman, I mean, he
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: has to figure it out at the corner and the
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: third base has not looked really all that athletic. He
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: made an error today that should have gotten the Cardinals
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: out of the inning and instead resulted in a two
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: run home run from Matt Shaw.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: It's the throwing.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: I think that has been the biggest concern for him,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: but it's also just all around. He doesn't look comfortable there.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: And yes, I know he came up the Cardinals system
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: as a third base prospect. Again, the last time the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Cardinals asked him to play third base consistently was before
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: he debuted in the majors, so we'll cut him some
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: slack there, but I think it just has to be
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: so much better for Nolan Gorman. And when we asked
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Alli Marmal about this in San Diego last weekend, he
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: said there has to be a commitment to the mobility
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: at the position, and he doesn't look super mobile there.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: Now things could change. I think it's been a gradual
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: improvement each time. But the only way the Cardinals are
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: going to be able to play Nolan Gorman every day
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: and guarantee that consistent playing time like they want to
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: is that putting him at third base, because second base
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: is taken with Brendan Donovan and they have an option
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: in tom to Jc to play third if needed, where
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I think he looks like the more athletic third basement,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: but he on the list of priorities of playing time
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: is not yet at the level of Nolan Gorman, Jordan.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Walker, Largs mate bar those players.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: So we are looking at Nolan Gorman third base defensively
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: proving over the next week or so, I get a
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: big test against the Rocky or not the Rockies, respectfully,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the Yankees for sure. The Yankees are a bit of
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: a free fall right now, so that will be an
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: interesting series, definitely at Bush Stadium. I don't have picks
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: for you right now because it is nine pm Central
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Time on Sunday and we don't have the picks for Monday.
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: But Bernie and that will get you to get you
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: those picks for next week on our next episode. So
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm looking at this week. Nolan Gorman third
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: base got to be better.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: Check it out.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: As you all know, you can play pick six on
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• 10:27
  Speaker 1: All right, again, this is a real short episode because
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I don't really have much for you guys. It's funny
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: when you spend one day away from the team, it
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: feels like a week.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Three days.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: I feel like I don't even know them anymore. So
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: looking forward to getting back to the stadium on Monday
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: with all my pals. One thing I am looking forward
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: to seeing, though, is how Matthew Libertor finishes his season.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I know we started this episode talking about pictures, we'll
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: end talking about pictures.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: We know that the workload has.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Been kind of monitored over the second half because this
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: is his first full year as a major league starter,
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: and you want to just make sure you're monitoring those Indians,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: and you're also monitoring the quality of those Indians. Lyvia
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: hasn't thrown a ton of high rest frames, which is good.
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: It's ultimately a testament tell effective he's been. But finishing
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: strong this season and knowing that he might be under
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: a little bit more of a I don't want to
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: say a pitch count, but a pitch regulation. That's going
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to be important. And because Livy is going to be
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: such a central piece in next year's rotation, I do
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: not think, well, we don't know what Haim Bloom is
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: going to look like, and the Cardinals can certainly trade
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: for starting pitching. That seems to be the most likely
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: cause they're going to go out and build an entire
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: rotation from scratch. Guys like Matthew Libertor, Guys like Michael
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: mcgreeby are going to have to pick.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: Up the slack next year.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: So this is a good test for Livy to see
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: where he can end the season and how he's going
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: to prep for next year. I think he's a serviceable
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: middle of the rotation starter. The Cardinals, though, they need
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: to develop an ace and maybe that's where Liam Doyle
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: comes in. And I don't like to prospect type. I
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: think being a top prospect in Major League Baseball right
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: now as as hard as as ever been because the
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: evaluations are everywhere. But Liam Doyle the skill set, the velo,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: the delivery, the demeanor that screams ace potential to me.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure the Cardinals will assign him to amin
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: leage affiliate very soon. They are going to have him
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: start playing, start pitching, to finish the season, making a
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: couple of appearances down in the lower levels of the
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: minor leagues.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: But we talked about this when he was drafted. He
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: has that pathway of a.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Chase ferms of a Paul schemes to exedite his way
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: to the major leagues. And I you know, in a
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: perfect world was Leam Doyle they viewed sometime in twenty
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: twenty six and become the media ace.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, helly, yeah, I think the Cardinals are taking
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: that immediately. Who wouldn't. Is that the most reliable or
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: logistics scenario. No, developing takes time, and teams that are
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: developing for pitching, it should be on the player's timeline,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: not the team's need. And that's something the Cardinals. That's
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: a really good sentence that's going in a story. I
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: think that sometimes the Cardinals have, especially over the last
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: three or four years, really dropped the ball in that department.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: We have seen it from take your pick, whether it's
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: Plante or Libertor or Zach Thompson or any of their
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: pitchers McGreevy. Up until this year, it's been all about
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: what the team needs at the major league level and
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: not about what's best for the player.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: And when you're developing starting pitching for Ticklarly, that is
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: absolutely the worst way you can go about it. So
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: there has been a cognizant effort from rob'sortfolio and from
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: Director of Pitching Matt Pierpont to start making those changes now.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: And these changes are going to take years to actually
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: see in the big leaks, but it is so important
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: that's happening before him Bloom fully takes over, because the
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Cardinals are going to have to completely revamp their mind
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: like system.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: We know that they're off to a good start.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I'd like to be able to share more of that
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: because I think the Cardinals are doing some really good
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: scenes behind this are really good things behind the scenes,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: but when you're looking at developing pitching and for the
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: Cardinals to be true contenders in the NL Central. Again,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: it all goes back to your rotation, and they seem
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: to be pretty far away in generating home grown rotation
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: that has swing and myss that has below, that has
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: stuff and isn't just the rotation that was successful about
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: ten years ago. Some housekeeping, you can visit the Cardinal
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: Territory shop dot com for first look at your new merch.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: We have hats now, so I'm really excited. Go buy
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: a hat. Make me happy.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: And again, as soon as you get to find out
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: of the subscribers are so so close, we'll do a
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: giveaway for you.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: Guys. Saw a couple of requests for player interviews. Let
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: me know.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: We have seven is weeks left of the season, so
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try to get as many player interviews
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: as possible. I know we had a little bit of
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: a break in those over July, just the trade deadline stuff,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: but excited to ramp that back up. We'll have Bernie
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: back with you next week and I'm so close to
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: finalizing which should be a fun one. If you like
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: the twenty eleven team, you will like this podcast, so yeah,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: send me your ideas, any questions you have about the team,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: any trends you like, men Expoor you can hit me
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: here on YouTube, on Apple, on Spotify, or on the Athletic.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: We'll be back to normal on Monday. Thanks, as always
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: for watching