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In 10: The end of the RMA era. What changes now for farmers? · Talking Dairy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Kiola and welcome to Talking Dairy and 10.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm David Cooper, a member of the Dairy and Z policy team.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: The coalition government has recently replaced the Longstanding Resource Management Act with two new acts, the Natural Environment Act and the Planning Act.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: But passing the legislation is only one part of the change.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: What farmers experience on the ground will depend heavily on the national standards and regional processes yet to come.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So what's changed?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: What stays the same?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: And what do you need to keep an eye out for when it comes to your farm?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: To cut through the legal jargon and explain what it all means, we have Patrick Sr., a barrister who has been working with the dairy sector at the pointy end of this reform process.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick, thanks for joining us.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh thanks, David.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to be on the show.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: As you mentioned, I'm a barrister and I've had the pleasure of working with Dairy New Zealand on the reform process.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've been working in the dairy industry for about six years.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Suffice to say, there's been a significant amount of change over that six-year period.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: So why is the government replacing the RMA?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: What's driving the reform and why should farmers care?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: The reform's driven really by two different forces.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Firstly, this government believes that the Resource Management Act is failing in terms of productivity and the cost of doing business.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And whether that's dairy farming or building houses or anything else, that's essentially regulated by the RMA.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_02: Secondly, this government's looked at environmental performance over the RMA's 35-year lifespan.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: The government's found that things aren't improving.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And so on both of those counts, this government says the RMA is failing.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's worth noting as well, those are similar to the findings of the previous government, which also reformed the Resource Management Act.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So how significant are the proposed changes for farmers?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: The new system is roughly, very roughly based on the old system.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, these two new laws are a complete replacement of the current law.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it is very different, and there'll be a significant amount of relearning, retraining as this new system beds in and we get used to it.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So where are we at in the process?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: What changes have been confirmed already?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So the 23rd of September, the new laws were confirmed.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: So those are now part of our legal system.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that provides the broad structure of the new system.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: But there is still a fair amount of water to go under the bridge.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so while we now have that overarching framework in place, we still don't have the national or local policies and plans which actually make this whole thing work.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's the next stage.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: What are the key milestones in the timing from here?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's a number of key milestones, I have to say.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a three to four year period, this government says, in terms of betting this new system in, that might extend.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: There's quite a lot to do in that time.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: That process starts with developing national policies and plans.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: The last cab off the rank will be the development of new regional plans, which are now called natural environment plans, and new district plans, which are now called land use plans.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: And in that three to four year period, as I've mentioned, there's a lot of hard work to be done.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what does this all mean for dairy farmers?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the government have come in, they've said we're going to get rid of all the unnecessary costs and regulations.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're all just going to go away, aren't they?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: If only there will still be quite a lot of rules for farmers to follow.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: But the government has promised things will improve under the new system.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, two things stand out.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Firstly, the new system is led by national regulation.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's a new, topped-out approach.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: And this government considers that's different from what we had under the RMA.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: The government's goal is for simpler regulation, which is more consistent across New Zealand.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: So all of that regional variation should be toned down under the new system.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: The second thing is that the government's made it clear that more activities across the board should be allowed to occur as permitted activities, as in a resource consent is not required.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: So for dairy farming, all going well, the key management tool becomes freshwater farm plans.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: And what parts of farming are most likely to be affected?
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of as you would expect, it's those activities that pose a higher risk to the environment.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: Those ones will face the toughest road.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's not just within farms, there's also a geographic element to that.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: So farms within catchments or management units as they're called under the new laws that are close to their environmental limit, or they're in breach of that environmental limit, will generally face a tougher road than farms in catchments that aren't in that same tricky situation.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: And when I say environmental limit, what I mean is the health of the critters in the water, or the amount of nitrogen on groundwater, and however else the government or counts also choose to measure environmental health.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So it sounds like environmental limits are still central to the whole resource management system.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, so limits remain important under this new system.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And what people will be most familiar with under the Resource Management Act is, of course, the National Policy Statement of Freshwater Management.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that general approach to limits will continue, although there are some significant changes to how it all pieces together and how it all works under the new laws.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Patrick.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just run through some practical examples for farmers.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: First, I've got a farm dairy effluent consent that is expiring next year.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: What's the situation there?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: So your consent will be extended for two years after the new system comes online.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it should run until about 2031-2032.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: It is worth noting though that no single consent can run for more than 35 years in total from when it first commenced or from when it first was granted.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: So if your consent started running in 1995, then it won't be extended past 2030.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: So another scenario, say I've got an irrigation consent for taken use of water that's expiring in five years' time.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: What's the situation there?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's similar to the previous example.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if you are still in that transition type period, your consent will be rolled over and it will be extended for two years after that period.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: If your consent expires outside of that period, then it expires and you need to reconsent.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's worth noting that exactly when this new system comes fully online is fluid.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that means that the date to which your consent is extended is also fluid.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: But look, the government has said three to four years for this new system to come online, which means consents expiring in this transition time should be extended to roughly 2031, 2032.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: So say I've got an existing dairy company farm environment plan.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's talk of freshwater farm plans becoming more important in this new regulatory system.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: What am I going to be required to do in my shift from the existing farm environment plan to this new regulatory freshwater farm plan?
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: It does depend a bit.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: So processes can apply to become approved industry organizations and certify existing farm environment plans as freshwater farm plans under the new system.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: However, the contents of the new freshwater farm plans depends on regulation, which is made under the new laws, and we don't have that detail yet.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there is a good chance, well, there is a chance at least that farm environment plans, as we know and love them now, roll over to be something quite similar under the new system.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: But there's also a chance that they could change.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: It just depends on what these regulations say.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: One pleasing and helpful element of the new laws is that processes can become certifiers.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's expected to drive some real efficiency in this freshwater farm plan system.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So say I'm a dairy farmer considering buying some property and converting it in Canterbury, for example.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's the story under the new legislation?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: What regulatory hoops will I have to go through in order to undertake that conversion or expand my existing farm?
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_02: That is a tricky one to answer in theory or as a hypothetical.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Consenting new activities and catchments or management units for facing environmental challenges is now already and will always be difficult.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know yet exactly how difficult that's going to be under the new system compared with the current system.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_02: For example, we don't know at what level environmental limits will be set.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_02: So a little hard to say at this point in time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: Also, farm to farm, there's a significant amount of variation.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: So in summary, if I'm converting now, I'm doing so under the existing regulations, but there may be further regulations to come once these regional processes have been through and we've seen some of this more national direction.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: So consents at the moment are largely processed under the DRMA.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_02: There are some tweaks that have been made by the new laws, but you're pretty much under the existing system at the moment.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there was a lot of media around government pausing Waikato Plan Change 1 and Horizon Plan Change 2.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just give us a bit of an overview of um the what the story was there?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: There is some complexity there as a general health warning, but in terms of an overview, Horizons Plan Change 2 previously required specific reductions in numerical nitrogen leaching rates for dairy farms.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Those magical oversevere numbers have been replaced with requirements to farm in accordance with good management practices.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_02: And these changes apply until the end of 2032.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a bit of a moratorium or a bit of a suspension of that plan change too.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: For Healthy Rivers, Waikatol Plan Change 1, any requirements to apply for resource consents under that plan change have been delayed until 2032.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And the same delays apply to the requirement to have farm environment plans in place under plan change one.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So essentially, those two plan changes or the effect of those two plan changes has been suspended until 2032.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: That 2032 date gives you an indication of when the government thinks that this new system will be fully up and running.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So best place for farmers impacted by those plan changes would be the Regional Council website.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, there's guidance on both of those websites.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what does this transition to the new system look like?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: What happens to existing consents?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Thankfully, existing consents are rolled over and they'll become what's called permits under the new system.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a slight name change, but really the terms and conditions on which your consent was granted will simply roll over into the new system.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_02: And what happens to existing regional plans?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: They will continue to apply until the new system is turned on.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: And at that point, natural environment plans will take over from regional plans.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now the government is telling us that this new system will be turned on across New Zealand all at once in about three to four years' time.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's a possibility that it might be turned on region by region, but I don't understand that to be the government's preference.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think the government wants to just turn this on and make a clean break from the RMA.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Again, time will tell.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: We'll see.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And there has been some sort of uh conversation around nationally consistent standards for the management of some activities.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: What's the story there and when do you see those coming through?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: So national standards will come through over the next two-ish years.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: There is a drive towards national consistency, and a real concern of this government is 13 regional councils, 13 different regional plans, and they're all slightly, or in some cases, very different from each other.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's quite possible that there will be national standards which relate to farming.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: They may be as specific as relating to dairy farming as an individual type of farming.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Time will tell.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: So where are the big opportunities and risks for farmers and catchment groups?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's two opportunities that stand out to me, David.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_02: The first is a real opportunity to cut through red tape with this new system.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Dairy farming can be managed by freshwater farm plans.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: The industry has been saying that uh for quite some time now.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in many cases, that doesn't require a farmer to go out and apply for a permit or a consent, or at least it shouldn't.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Where those permits are required, they should in theory be faster and cheaper to obtain.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in part, that will be driven by the national standards that we've already talked about.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: A greater consistency and a greater ease of obtaining consents or permits when they are required.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's also a greater opportunity for non-regulatory measures to be used to address environmental performance within management units.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And those non-regulatory measures will be largely found in action plans, which are a response to catchments or management units which are up against an environmental limit.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: In terms of risks, look, the key risk continues to be conversions to dairy within catchments that are already facing significant environmental challenges.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where environmental limits will be engaged.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it will be a tougher time for farmers to get consents for those types of activities.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: David, in terms of the other risk that stands out to me, it's on enforcement and compliance.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Farmers need to be aware of changes that are happening on the enforcement compliance front.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of these changes actually sit within the RMA and have effect already.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_02: But generally speaking, fines are increasing and it's no longer possible to insure against fines.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Patrick, I understand that previous non-compliance will also become more important when councils are considering whether to grant permits or not.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that's right, David.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that's currently a relevant factor when councils are determining whether to grant a resource consent or not under the RMA, and it will continue to be relevant under the new laws.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: So what are the key decisions and milestones ahead?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there is a lot of change coming down the road.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: And as I've indicated, it could be three, four, possibly more years before this new system beds in.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: There are a lot of milestones along the way, and it's going to be a lot for any one person to keep an eye on.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'd recommend there is, you know, it's really leaning on dairy and z as a source of information about what exactly the next step is.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what would have the biggest on-farm impact?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Probably the biggest impact from this new system will be through freshwater farm plans.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Government and industry have put up those plans as a key tool for managing farming going forwards.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Much of that detail is not yet known though.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be held within the regulations.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: The government has helpfully said that once the regulations come in, freshwater farm plans won't bite for five years.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: So that should give a decent amount of time for farmers to certify their plans if they need to be certified and then start to take action and comply with those plans.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: So is there anything farmers should be doing right now?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: What people most want to know about this new system, not just in farming, is whether they should be consenting stuff now and doing stuff now or permitting it under the new system.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I would want to know.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: But unfortunately, my crystal ball does not extend to that, and I can't answer that question.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So much is still unknown about the new system.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: So what I'm going to say is I guess two practical things.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Firstly, farmers should be ensuring that things are in order on the farm.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: So the new approach to environmental compliance is a real game changer, and there has never been a better time to not be prosecuted for compliance breaches on farm.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: The second thing is just having that general awareness of what is coming down the track.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully this interview helps, but really this is the tip of the iceberg.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so once farmers are familiar with what's happening and what's coming, they can feedback to Dairy New Zealand, and Dairy New Zealand then takes that feedback and it goes into submissions to the government and discussions with the government.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a key feedback loop, I think.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the reasons why Dairy New Zealand's submission on the new laws has been so successful in terms of securing positive change.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Patrick.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it is critical that we understand the impacts of legislation on farms so that we can convey that to decision makers.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that wraps up this episode of Talking Dairy and 10.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: The main message is that the new legislation sets the direction, but it does not change every on-farm rule overnight.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: So keep following those regional and district rules and your consent conditions that apply to your farm now.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: The next stage matters because the national standards, national direction, and regional plans developed under the new system will determine how it works in practice.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: We'll continue working hard to support practical outcomes for our farmers, our communities, and the environment.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: The Darian Z Resource Management webpage will be updated with what you need to know as more detail is confirmed, and we'll provide a link to this in the show notes.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening, thanks for attending, Patrick, and we'll catch you next time.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Ma tewa.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to get connected with DariNZ's latest advice, research, tools, and resources, whether it's reading, scrolling, listening, or in person, you can visit dairynz.co.nz forward slash get connected, and don't forget to hit follow to keep up to date with our latest episodes.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: As always, if you have any feedback on this podcast or have some ideas for future topics or guests, please email us at talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, and we'll catch you next time on Talking Dairy.