Latest / The Magic Guys / The War Magician: Jasper Maskelyne #187

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The War Magician: Jasper Maskelyne #187 · The Magic Guys

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They're guys they do magic they are the magic guys,
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no we are live we've been live for the past 15 seconds friend oh man i'm in
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i'm in the time travel multiverse playing catch up over here,
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apparently that new internet i paid for isn't worth
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the money well it's it's always a worry but firstly
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friends welcome to episode 187 i'm your
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host nick gay of the magic guys and joining me this week of
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course is the daddy of the pod doug khan
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what's up y'all how you doing yeah living the
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dream now our good friend josh nabito is currently away on business
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he's performing at the singapore grand
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prix so he's been bouncing around the planet having a
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wonderful time if you want to see his escapades please scope out
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his instagram justin abito and that's
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why i'm driving the machine this week which yeah you
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know what i'm a great driver and all but when i gotta drive the show i feel
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like i'm always gonna plow it into the ocean and drown us all oh well can't
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live forever no i feel that way every day every day like it's like yeah time to drive off the tracks.
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Now, I haven't been around for the past couple of weeks myself,
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so it's been good to see you, Doug. What have you been up to?
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What have you been up to? It's probably more interesting than what I've been
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up to. Same old crap, cranking out magic tutorials.
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I have been creative lately, so I'm feeling good about my creative output.
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I've been fixing Vernon material.
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But enough about me. What have you been doing, man? You've been traveling the world too.
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Yeah. Well, before we jump into that, we'll circle back to that because Michael
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Amar was in town recently,
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and we're talking about all of the interactions he was having whilst Vernon
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was in existence you know so yeah it was really really fascinating stuff and
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you know if anyone's ever seen
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is it called the Vernon Chronicles in which he's sitting around a table,
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Michael the revelation tape is what it is the Vernon Revelation series oh man
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that's a lot yeah I've not seen those videos for a very very long time but we
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had a very deep discussion about like what that was like and the conversations
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and one of my favorite moments in that is when When you see him talk about,
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they were talking about like the triumph and then Amar just does the triumph
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from the spot. Like, yeah.
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And then he just leans over and Vernon's just like, see, you suck the whole soul out of the routine.
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Yeah. Vernon takes him to school and that whole tape. He's always like,
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that's not how you do it. Give me the cards.
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Yeah. Yeah.
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So you're exploring Vernon stuff.
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Uh, fixing Vernon, because it turns out the professor didn't do everything he
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could do with the routines he created.
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I mean, that's to be expected. You know, he was alive a hundred years ago.
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Yeah. I've been actually working on cutting the aces and cups and balls,
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two great classics from stars of magic.
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And I really feel I found some interesting nuggets to ramp both of those routines up.
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I did research the cutting the aces and I have a minor reinvention,
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but still a novel climax for this routine and my work I'm doing on the cups
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and balls right now. I've done a lot of exploring with the cups.
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What I'm tinkering with now is the most exciting stuff I've ever played with in years.
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I love hearing that. And we're going to see this?
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For sure, the members of LearnSlideOfHand.com and YouTube, that's where I put
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my proprietary higher-end stuff.
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If you're a member of any of my things, you'll get that information.
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And yeah, it'll get out there. I'll probably do a short with some of the more
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interesting material for performance purposes.
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I love that. So yeah, by all means, folks, if you want to see that scope out,
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learnsliderhand.com, I'm going to scope it out for sure.
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So yeah, circling back to what I've been up to, I was away the week before, which was a wild time.
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So I have a friend, well, yeah, yeah, in the magic community.
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I met him here whilst he was studying for his accounting degree.
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And we've been friends for many years and he's gotten engaged.
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And so he asked me to come over and be part of his wedding and to perform and
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so forth and actually asked me to be part of the the the bridal party and so
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i was my first time visiting malaysia which is a remarkable country and an absolute.
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Wild wild food culture and that's what i enjoyed the most about that place like the amount of,
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amazing foods that we consume whilst we're there like i put on a full
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kilo while i was there and i was hitting the gym for an hour and a half every day
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to try combat that but it was just not happening man
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like do you have milo where you are yeah it's
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it's i don't know you probably have something some sort of equivalent but
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it's effectively a chocolate based drink like from
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a powder format and away you go we have
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it here in oz but in malaysia it is like it's like a national drink you can
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have it with like almost every meal there's like advertisements everywhere for
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it in these food halls and so forth but everything we ate had sugar to some
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degree and And come to find out that Malaysia is like the number one leader in like diabetes. Hmm.
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That's rough. Big time. And so it was absolutely wonderful. But like,
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they're an amazing place, amazing people.
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Some of the highlights for myself were being part of an Asian or Chinese style
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wedding, because my friend who's Malaysian married a Chinese woman,
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and they have this tradition.
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And if you're unaware of it, let me share this with you guys before we jump
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into our history lesson, because they do this thing in which all the bridal
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party are in one location, almost like, you know, like that was an Airbnb,
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but it's built like a castle, this place.
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So we arrive and then we have to achieve these challenges in order to get access
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to the bride and then take her to the church.
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And we had to do all this stuff whilst appeasing judges who were the aunts and
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so forth and the elders of this particular family member.
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And we also had the ability to bribe them in this process as well.
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So the best man had a suitcase filled with these envelopes. I got one in my fridge.
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Red envelope that you could bribe your way out of situations that were very difficult.
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So weird. It was insane. So keep it in mind, we're dressed in our Sunday best.
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We're about to go to church.
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They're making us do push-ups in 36 degree heat and we're sweating profusely.
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We're getting dirtbag filthy having to do all these challenges.
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We had to put on pants with no hands.
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And I figured that's not going to be too difficult because I've done it with my teeth to get them off.
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Let's just reverse the process. So I'm putting pants on my friends with my teeth,
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and I'm trying to do this in an allocated time, and I failed.
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And then because we're failing these challenges, what they're doing is they're
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punishing us. And the way they punish us is sadly with food.
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So they have these particular types of foods, and they've got the durian fruit
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that stinks and so forth, and they've got all these chilies and whatever else,
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and it's extremely bitter.
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I don't know what they're called. I don't know the native tongue well enough,
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but you would have to eat like crazy
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bit of foods as punishment or take a mouthful of wasabi and so forth.
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And so we're doing all these challenges. And one of which was like they wanted
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a talent show, which I think is kind of why I was part of the bridal party and
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invited to go and perform there and so forth.
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You're the ringer for that event. I was the ringer by all means.
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We're going to win this one at least.
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Yeah, we did. We did actually. So we won that, got a full 10 out of 10.
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That was great. But then there was some other stuff that we failed.
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And one of the punishments was that was shoving like these particular gross foods in my mouth.
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In that process, the what do you call her? The best man for the chick equivalent. What's the word?
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Matron of honor. Is that her name? Yeah. Made of honor. Yeah.
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The maid of honor grabbed all this stuff and shoved it into my mouth.
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In that process, she put in these two particular chilies.
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That means you're married now in Malaysia, actually. Oh, great.
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Congratulations, Nick. Well,
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so the reason I bring this up is that I ate these two chilies and everyone was
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like, Nick just ate two of these something, something chilies.
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And everyone was like, that's not good.
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Why? What's what do you mean? And they're like, like, we don't know.
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That's that's bad, Nick. Like we, we only, we will, we'll put one in like a
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full buff chair, like a huge massive meal.
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And we just threw two in your face and you swallowed them. And I was like, oh, okay.
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Like, and everyone was asking, like every few minutes, like,
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are you okay? And I'm like, I think so.
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About like 10 minutes later, I start tripping. Oh no. Really ripping, ripping hot.
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Is that what it is? Like a hot pepper. so it
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was these i couldn't really tell but it was like these red peppers
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they're really thin and really long like that and they shoved two on my face
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and i choked them down and i was on fire because it was chili right but my chili
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game isn't isn't too bad so i didn't feel right where i got really exciting
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is that we're in the hallway and part of the process before we get the the wife
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is so my mate daniel is
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is talking through the doorway and he's like gotta say
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all these niceties to try and convince her to open the
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door to take and i'm and it's cute
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as right he's like oh you know i love you to bits i'll give you face massages
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and then and then and all this stuff and and i'm just sitting in the hallway
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tripping now thankfully they're they're pretty affluent people and dr troy come
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over and he was like are you all right i was like i don't know man and then,
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And then he's like, let me check you.
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And I looked down at my wristwatch and I look at my pulse and my pulse,
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I was just sitting there and I was at like 140 beats.
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I don't reach that on the elliptical at the gym, but I'm just sitting there
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just like, just tripping off this.
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So that was me for about an hour, just tripping. Oh man. That does not sound fun.
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Yeah. And so then we, you know, we get to church and, you know, we do everything.
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We're wearing white shirts that are dirt bag filthy, which is tradition,
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which is great. And we, we do it all and we have a great time.
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Everyone there was super wonderful. Thank you to everyone for your hospitality, boss. We're there.
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My good friends, razzle dazzle, Richie, all you guys were so awesome. So, you know, thank you.
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There's too much to talk about there, which is not what we're here for today.
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We're here to, I was here for that.
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Actually, I was going to dip in your, your, like, I'm so jealous of you guys
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traveling around the world, getting to experience all the culture and stuff.
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I got to ask if you looked up magicians in the area, do you?
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Well, yeah. Well, Daniel being a magician, I asked him, Hey,
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is there anyone we can go and meet?
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Can we go to certain places? Can we have a bit of a chat? And he goes like the
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magic scene here is not very inclusive.
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He spoke about it quite negatively. I was like, Oh, that's a shame because I
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was hoping to meet some folks there. Yeah. Yeah.
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Magic's like in another country, I think is great. Yeah, exactly.
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Doug. And, and unfortunately, well, not unfortunately it was this particular
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time of year was like over a long weekend and what it was surrounding,
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like this new moon festival type thing.
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And because it was a long weekend basically what happens is all of the workers
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and and i saw them like on on like that sunday like they all just sort of come
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out the ground and they all go to the city and they said and i was i thought
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i was staying in the city but i was not because
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the city is so vast i was kind of on the outer and they said if you go to the
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city you will be shoulder to shoulder wow like i would love for you to see kl
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city but if you go there you will not be able to move and i was like you're
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kidding so many people there is so many people in kl and And I was just like,
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you know what? I'm having a good time here.
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Yeah, I get it. That was awesome. You know, I ate way too much food.
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I plugged the toilet at the motel room. That was awesome.
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Took him two days to unblock it. Oh, no.
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Oh, that's a story in itself. But we're not here to talk crap.
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I'm not here for that. We're here to talk history to our friends.
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And let's say a quick hi to our friends here in the chat.
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Andy, that's a new face. Good to see you, friend. Gut Buster Mike, good to see you.
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Adonis, we have Scott Link, we have good friend Nick. Welcome,
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friends. Tim Askin, good to see you guys all here.
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So yeah, my spicy food game, that was a challenge, but yeah, so...
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It's been a while since we've done this because we've had a wonderful run of
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interviews as the time has gone on.
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And so this was something that I kind of compiled together, wrote way too much
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about, and realized that I was being rather repetitive.
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So I've scaled this back to a more palatable, strict to the point,
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and we can leave it open for discussion as to who we're talking about.
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Now, the person we're talking about this history lesson is Jasper Masculine. Shall we begin?
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I'm excited about this. I don't know this much about Jasper Masculine.
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I started to go down the rabbit hole today, and I thought, you know what?
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I'll just listen to Nick Kaye, see what he has to say tonight.
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All right. Yeah, we should do it. Let's begin.
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Jasper Masculine, born 1902, was a British stage magician who gained prominence
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in the 1930s for his spectacular illusions and mechanical magic.
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His reputation as a magician would have been enough to secure him a place in history.
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But his contributions during world war but it's
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his country let me say that again it was his contributions during world war
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ii that made him truly unique figure masculine claim
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to have used his skills in deception and illusion to assist the british army
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helping to deceive german forces in north africa through a series of ingenious
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ruses and these fake operations through his post-war accounts may have been
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met with skepticism and there is a little bit about that saying that But look,
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it's rumors of his influence in these types of things have been greatly exaggerated.
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But, you know, life is all about the story. You can tell at the end of it.
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So we'll share what information we have about it. You guys can draw your own conclusions.
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But his stories continue to intrigue historians, military enthusiasts, and magic fans alike.
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In this episode, we will explore Jasper Maskelyne's early life,
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his career before and during the war, His contributions to the military deception
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and his life thereafter,
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his legacy, and of course, the legacy which includes the upcoming film called The War Magician.
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So that's cool. You got a life interesting enough that Hollywood is ready to
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put some money down for it.
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Yeah. I'm pretty excited about it. I think when that comes to the forefront
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in any capacity, it's exciting.
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I watched The Illusionist and the Plane Over with Edward Norton.
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Man, we've been meaning to re-watch that movie the last couple of weeks,
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my wife and I have been talking about it.
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And ultimately, it's an exaggerated telling of the influence of Pepper's ghost.
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And if you ever really want to understand the history of that,
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I highly recommend you get Hiding the Elephant, written by Jim Steinmeier.
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Thank you, Jim Steinmeier. Yes, that is a remarkable piece of history as far
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as that particular effect goes.
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Now, people are achieving it on their mobile phones now. It's kind of staggering.
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But let's begin with his early life and background.
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Now, Jasper Masculine was born into a family steeped in the tradition of magic
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and illusion. His father, John Neville Maskelyne, was a famous Victorian magician
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and one of the pioneers of stage magic during the 19th century.
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John Neville Maskelyne was also an inventor known for creating mechanical devices
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used in magic tricks, such as the first coin-operated public toilet and the typewriter.
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Those are used in magic tricks? What is that?
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Well, he used that, but as well as that, they, you know, he's mechanical.
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Magicians are crafty folks.
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It's interesting that this is a second generation magician we're talking about
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because that would have been hard to do at that time.
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It's not like the internet was around. You go look at YouTube tutorials, right?
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Yeah. And if you sort of refer back to our episode on Robert Houdin,
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where people had these amazing skill sets like him being, well,
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Robert Houdin being a watchmaker.
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It just goes to show when you have this level of ingenuity, how you can apply
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it to all manner of life, whether it be to entertain through the medium of magic
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or to influence things like the typewriter. I think that's enormous.
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Do tell okay you know houdini was the first to fly an airplane in australia
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he was yeah and when you come visit yeah when you come to visit i'll take you
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there it's a good time so jasper's father,
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followed in the family tradition and became a magician in his own right ensuring
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that jasper grew up by grew up surrounded by magic and theatrical performances
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from a young age jasper was fascinated with the world of illusion and sleight
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of hand he inherited his family's love for magic,
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but also displayed a talent for engineering and mechanics,
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which became a significant part of his later career.
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He honed his craft through countless hours of practice and experimentation,
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eventually becoming a successful stage magician by the 1930s.
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Jasper Maskelyne was known for his grand illusions, which included making large
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objects disappear, levitating people, and performing intricate escape acts that
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relied on mechanical contraptions hidden from audience view.
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While his reputation as a magician was solid, Maskelyne had grander ambitions.
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He wanted to prove that magic could be used for more than just entertainment.
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He believed in the principles of illusion and deception could be used to change the course of history.
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And with the outbreak of World War II, Maskelyne saw this as an opportunity
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to put his ideas to the test.
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Now, when I looked up the sort of stuff he was performing, performing as we
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sidetrack this, he basically performed what seemed to be, well,
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let's just call it standards for lack of a better term.
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Now, from the history that I've studied with regards to Keller and Blackstone
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and so forth, making things vanish, that all kind of made sense.
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But he kind of, from what I could read or what I did find about it,
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he just had subtleties that made, that sort of gave him that accolade of like, no, he's good.
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He's good. The way he does it is kind of great so isn't it always the way it's
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not the trick it's the magician it's the performer it's how you do whatever
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you're doing you can do rudimentary simple things and do them expertly and,
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well received yeah i think so so from what i from what i found out you know
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he was doing the standards of you know making things vanish great tables and
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chairs would vanish um he did levitation tricks which that was what really influenced
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them he had certain convinces in that particular way way that he did it,
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that really got him this street cred, so to speak.
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He did escapology, you know, which I guess, you know, with influences like Harry
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Houdini and so forth, you know, that was just the standard that kind of had to be done.
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He did soaring and half illusions, and he performed quite regularly at the Egyptian Hall, which was.
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Now that's something we can talk about, the Egyptian Hall.
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Correct. That is an iconic title there.
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This Egyptian Hall eventually was home to an amazing collection of magic.
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I don't know if this is on your report or not. that well
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yeah so for so basically we we did touch
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upon this we probably do an episode about the hall in its entirety
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but we should we should go see mike cavani and go see the collection yeah so
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for those of you that don't know it's a hall that was in london and basically
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you know was was titled like the home of mystery and was renowned for bringing
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over every international amazing magical.
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Act in this particular venue a very large scale venue and
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and beautiful like the amount of detail put
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into like gold trimmings of like you know
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the sort of building so in itself it was kind of
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beautiful but just historically it was home to magic
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in effect but what i liked most
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about you know when you with regards to his routines and
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so forth even though he talked about stage when he actually did a lot
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of like car manipulation and close-up so in
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a sense he's a a very well-rounded magician which is
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kind of great you know there's a lot of you know
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so i mean i i i would love to know what kind
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of manip he did if he was doing like split fans and things like that like
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i think i'm not sure where that sort of began and
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i'm very curious what do you know about that
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doug as with regards to the first sort
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of notion it's a little bit outside of my expertise the
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the card fan productions and things
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of this nature you know i'm not sure of the evolution of this type of material
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it's a good question yeah if anyone knows in the chat do please let us know
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it would be really really interesting but uh so in amongst performing these
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and having a great career he took it upon himself and a call to action to go to world war II.
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Now, when World War II began in 1938, Maskelyne, who was about 30 years of age
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at that time, like many Britons, felt a sense of duty to contribute to the war effort.
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So he established himself as one of Britain's top magicians.
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However, instead of joining a fight as a soldier or an entertainer for the troops,
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Maskelyne proposed a different role.
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He believed that his skills as an illusionist could be adapted for military
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use, specifically in the areas of camouflage and deception.
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Good gig. Great gig. Now, in 1940, Maskelyne volunteered for the Royal Engineers.
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It's a bunch of British Army soldiers, but were responsible for tasks such as
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building fortifications and constructing roads and bridges and so forth to carry out demolitions.
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His initial attempts to convince the military that magic could be used for the
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wartime purposes was met with a lot of skepticism, rightly so.
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The military hierarchy was not quick to to
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see the practical applications that magic
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could have in this time of warfare however masculine
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persisted according to his accounts masculine eventually convinced his superiors
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by staging a demonstration where he made a german warship appear on the river
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thames using only mirrors and lighting effects wow yeah so impressed by this ingenuity,
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the royal engineers accepted him into their ranks and assigned him the work
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of camouflaging projects.
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Now, over time, Mashkelon formed a special unit of creative minds.
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It included engineers, artists, and some technicians.
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But this group came to be known as the Magic Gang, and their task was to develop
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large-scale illusions, effectively,
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that could be used to deceive the Axis powers in North Africa.
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Let's go magicians to the rescue. We've been doing it forever.
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I mean, come on, Robert, who Dan did it, you know, and this kind of deception
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actually goes back to like the, the terracotta army, you know,
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they did it ancient, ancient Asian armies.
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They'd build these clay, you know, figurines to deceive the other armies to
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thinking there was more people than there were.
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I had no idea. I went, I went that far back. because I have seen some of those relics being sort of.
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Uncovered by archaeologists and so forth. You come over the hill,
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you see a thousand soldiers out there, but they're all clay.
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But you don't know that unless you get close.
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Wow. I wonder if they would just put strings on them like Weekend at Bernie's
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and just be like... Yeah, it was just like that.
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That'd have been hilarious. They're all hand puppets.
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So that's what they were doing with those? Because I've seen them buried and I was like,
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like i don't know what that's about and then i move on because it's basically
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something through my you
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know facebook feed that i would come across that yeah magicians
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and wars and government even
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like houdini was reported to be involved in some espionage
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and things of this nature and relating to war efforts and such right okay so
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let's explore let's explore this magic gang now yeah Jasper Maskelyne's most
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significant contributions to the war effort occurred during the North African campaign,
24:30
where he and the Magic Gang used their talents to create elaborate deceptions
24:35
aimed at confusing German field marshals.
24:40
Sorry, I lost my place. Here we are. The North African desert was a critical
24:44
theater of operations for these allies.
24:49
Now, this is kind of... Come on, Nick. You got this, man.
24:53
Well, again, this is kind of... You want me to just start making up facts and cover your... No.
24:58
Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, it was basically saying that the masculine
25:02
believed that these large-scale illusions could be used to mislead enemies and
25:05
allow British forces to gain theatrical advantage. Okay? Tactical advantage.
25:10
One of masculine's most famous projects during this time was the camouflage of the Suez Canal.
25:16
Okay? This canal was a vital waterway for the Allies, and the Axis forces sought
25:21
to disrupt it by dropping bombs in these raids. So they were saying, here's a canal.
25:27
They're going to use this to move their folks. Let's bomb it,
25:31
which means they can't move their artillery and move their soldiers and so forth.
25:36
So Maskelyne devised a system of lights and mirrors that, according to his claim,
25:43
made the canal appear to disappear at night, confusing the enemy bombers and
25:48
protecting that strategic asset.
25:52
Interesting. Isn't it interesting? I don't know what else I could apply that to this.
25:57
Like, you know, I would love to buy a Porsche and not have like my partner be mad about it.
26:06
And she goes into the garage and she's like, it's just the Tesla.
26:12
But then Porsche.
26:14
You know, it's interesting what magicians can put their mind to and accomplish.
26:18
You know, like I need to make this river disappear. disappear so the enemy doesn't
26:22
bomb it how am i going to do that and you figure it out you know yeah i find
26:26
that interesting because i wonder if like this influence that masculine did
26:29
was applied to what's the gentleman who made the london bridge disappear using,
26:34
mirrors and so forth what was his name did paul daniels do it i don't know it
26:40
wasn't paul daniels i mean i'm thinking about copperfield did statue of liberty
26:45
he's got the moon in the works you know like yeah i'm gonna make the moon vanish
26:50
so no one nukes the moon you know you gotta so yeah.
26:54
Crafty people we are yeah i guess it
26:57
is notable now another notable illusion involved the creation
27:00
of fake bomb craters so masculinity's
27:03
team built these inflatable craters and they
27:06
were placed in key locations to make it appear that the germans had
27:09
bombed that area already yeah which
27:14
is interesting because i figured that there would be some sort of you know i guess
27:18
at that time maybe the way they documented things wouldn't be that easy or the
27:20
flow of information wouldn't have been as easy knowing that you know
27:23
that would have happened but it's a lesser known fact that this magic gang would
27:28
infiltrate the nazi troops and perform the 21 card trick until the get the nazis
27:34
were actually rendered unconscious from just mental dumbness 21 card trick all day long.
27:45
You know what the next time someone tries
27:48
to perform the 21 card trick i'm going to take it as an act of
27:51
aggression knowing that but if they're in
27:54
the magic gang their methods will be too good you won't know before you know
27:58
it you'll be sucked in and you know because they have all the methods i'm gonna
28:02
find they have all the theatrical techniques he wrote them in his book we'll
28:06
get to that okay now perhaps the most well-known of masculine deceptions came during
28:12
the Battle of Al-Al-Main in 1942,
28:16
a turning point in the North African campaign.
28:19
In an operation known as Operation Bertram, Maskelyne and the Magic Gang were
28:24
tasked by creating a fake army to deceive Rommel, who was the general of the Axis forces.
28:34
And they used a fake army to basically deceive them with regards to the location
28:40
of the British forces. So the magic gang constructed dummy tanks,
28:44
dummy trucks, and artillery.
28:47
And they basically made this out of canvas and inflatable materials.
28:51
I did see some pictures of these tanks.
28:54
I was doing a little masculine research. You can go on Google and look this
28:58
up. Yeah. It's like the terracotta army, but tanks.
29:02
So, yeah, they applied it in a few different ways. And we'll press on because
29:05
I'm certain I covered this quite well.
29:06
So these decoys were placed in strategic locations, while the real tanks were
29:12
disguised as supply trucks and hidden from view. Let's go.
29:15
Double dipping. happened yeah so the
29:18
deception was so effective that ramel was led to believe
29:21
that the british forces were much weaker and positioned
29:24
in different areas than they actually were and the
29:27
contribution helped lead to the actual victory of
29:31
that battle right and in addition to
29:34
using the decoys and the camouflage masculine and his team employed
29:37
other forms of deception so for example
29:40
they had fake radio transmissions to mislead
29:44
them for reconnaissance reports ports the magic yeah the
29:47
magic gang used a blend of theatrical illusion so what they would do is they
29:54
would like paint buildings you know to camouflage them and so forth but everything
29:59
was basically used with the means of pushing psychological warfare and aimed
30:03
at confusing and demoralizing the enemy.
30:06
Love it. Now that's good warfare. I, you know, we need more of this and less bombs.
30:13
I wonder if that's what needs to happen when we need to get Blaine and a bunch
30:17
of others and be like, Hey, let's see what we can do here. Maybe not Blaine though.
30:28
Yeah. You know, if you were going to spend, okay, let's, let's put this to the chat.
30:32
And as I read the next, the next thing about the techniques used if you were
30:37
gonna send a magician to war,
30:39
who would you send to defend us who
30:42
is our captain america of the magic realm let
30:46
us know in the chat now one of the most famous tools of deception used by masculine
30:50
and his team was the inflatable tank these were dummy tanks that were made from
30:55
lightweight rubberized fabrics and canvases and they were designed to closely
31:01
resemble real tanks from the air.
31:03
The inflatable tanks were easy to transport, quick to set up,
31:07
and could be placed in formations that made it appear as though they were large
31:12
armored divisions while preparing for battle.
31:15
Now, these tanks were part of a broader set of decoys, including inflatable
31:20
trucks and fake artillery, all intended to mislead the Army and reconnaissance
31:24
planes. How clever is that?
31:27
Super clever. isn't it great i mean how many things could i leave about to misdirect people,
31:36
like i have a pile of morgan dollars on my table right now and they're all fake
31:41
but if they were real it would be like six thousand dollars worth of morgan dollars,
31:48
just me okay no one cares i mean it's not very warlike but yeah.
31:57
I don't lead with that, but the inflatable tanks were used extensively during
32:03
Operation Bertram and were crucial in creating the illusion of a much larger
32:08
and more formidable British force.
32:11
By placing these decoys in open areas and positioning real tanks in camouflaged
32:16
locations, Mesklen and his team were able to divert Rommel's attention away
32:20
from the true British offense. fence.
32:23
Maskelyne also developed other Indigenous camouflage techniques, for example.
32:28
He designed covers that made the tanks look like ordinary trucks when viewed from the air.
32:33
He used painted canvases to create the illusion of large buildings or military
32:38
installations where none actually existed.
32:42
His work in camouflage was not only creative, but also highly practical,
32:47
as it allowed British forces to move the position of their equipment without
32:51
being detected by enemy reconnaissance.
32:55
It's probably a lot easier to move around a bunch of blow-up toys than actual tanks.
32:59
Yeah. So basically they folded down to next to nothing and they threw them in
33:02
a truck and they would just pop them up everywhere.
33:04
And it was just, I mean, I just think that's genius to be able to do things of that nature.
33:10
I don't know where I would apply it in real life, but erroneous of that.
33:15
Pretty, pretty interesting. Now, Tim says that we could probably put Piff to go to war for us.
33:22
This is our, this is our only hope, obviously. Piff and his dragon save us it
33:27
makes perfect sense if you look at Game of Thrones they could be like we have
33:33
an army and then we'll just be like we have a dragon and a Mr.
33:38
Piffles if that's what you want going into battle.
33:45
Actually you know man sadly
33:48
I don't remember this man's real name but he's an inventive
33:51
creative man magician and probably would do
33:54
better than average i'd pick piff over blaine that's
33:57
for sure i'll second that yeah a
34:00
hundred dragon or no dragon yeah yeah so
34:04
after the war jasper masculine returned to civilian life with the hope of continuing
34:09
east korea as a stage magician however the post-war years were marked by frustration
34:16
and disappointment although he had been hailed as a war hero by But for some time,
34:23
his contributions to the military deceptions were not only officially recognized
34:27
by the British government.
34:28
Mescalin believed that his wartime work had played a crucial role in the success
34:32
of the North African campaign.
34:34
But his claims were met with skepticism by military historians and officials.
34:40
Also by Nick, who says, why would a military guy not think of this?
34:45
Why do you need a magician? it's not unfounded that you could be like yeah you're good but you know,
34:56
Yeah, I don't know. I think when we're in such an early place in our evolution
35:01
as people, it's kind of like saying, why didn't we think about putting phones
35:06
in our pockets in the 1950s?
35:08
I'm sure we did. It just, you know.
35:12
Sounds to me like he lost his gravy train with the military gig and then had
35:17
a hard time transitioning back to being a performer.
35:20
Is that kind of a situation here? That is exactly. And the public was not embracing
35:25
him as the war hero that he should have been.
35:28
Exactly. And you know what? That is exactly the situation. You see,
35:31
in 1949, Maskelyne published a memoir.
35:35
The memoir titled Top Secret, in which he detailed his wartime exploits.
35:40
The book included stories of how he made the Suez Canal disappear,
35:45
how he created fake tanks and craters, and how he used illusions to deceive
35:50
the rumble forces. Oh, so this is in a book.
35:54
Yeah. Yeah. It's called Magic Top Secret. It's in his memoirs.
35:59
Now, while the book garnered public interest, it also raised questions about
36:05
the accuracy of Maskelyne's claims.
36:08
Times some historians began to doubt
36:11
the extent of which the
36:14
contributions sort of happened suggested that
36:17
his role in the war may have been exaggerated
36:20
or embellished now that's not
36:23
like a magician to do that is it fellas i mean
36:27
show business i caught
36:30
a fish this big and then it ended up
36:33
being a whale isn't that the story yeah it's
36:39
the way we were well despite the controversy masculine story continued to capture
36:45
the imagination of the public and his blend of magic and military military strategy
36:50
was unique and the wartime deceptions remain a fascinating chapter in history
36:55
and both magic so that i kind of agree with.
37:00
You know, erroneous of the truth or the deep, deep truths.
37:05
I'm sure that history has been embellished, you know, along the way. Absolutely.
37:11
Human nature. Yeah. Well, I figured.
37:15
So, like you said, Doug, in his later years, you know, going from the war game,
37:21
but trying to get back into the performance realm.
37:23
This is what happened in his later years. in the 1950s disillusioned with the
37:28
lack of recognition in britain masculine moved to kenya where he hoped to rebuild
37:33
his career however his later years were relatively quiet and his,
37:40
he lived out his life out of the way of the public eye and jasper ended up passing
37:46
away the ripe old age of 71 in 1973 in the following years of his death masculine
37:53
story began to resurface,
37:54
largely due to the efforts of writers and historians who were fascinated by the wartime exploits.
37:59
While some aspects of his story remain debated, there is no doubt that he played
38:06
a significant role in the development of military deception and tactics during World War II.
38:13
I think we can agree on that. I think what we're taking away from this is that
38:19
it wasn't really something that was celebrated in the moment.
38:22
It was kind of something that was founded later, I guess, kind of like Van Gogh,
38:26
like Van Gogh was like poor, died poor.
38:28
And then years later, it's like, look at this stuff we found from this guy who cut his ear off.
38:34
I feel like that's the energy that's sort of coming through on this storyline.
38:38
You know, like it wasn't celebrated and during his life. It's more like after
38:43
that it's sort of resurfaced.
38:45
I wish I had read that book now. So I had a little more information,
38:48
you know, ground and opinion on, you know, I'm assuming the story must be very
38:52
deep of Hollywood wants to tell it.
38:55
Correct. Yeah. In fact, Jasper's story is once again coming to the forefront
39:00
in an upcoming film called The War Magician in which Benedict Cumberbatch is
39:05
set to star as Masculine.
39:08
With Colin Tevereau directing the film. The film is based off David Fisher's
39:13
book, The War Magician, which explores Maskelyne's role in World War II and
39:17
the use of his illusions to deceive the Nazis.
39:20
The film is part of a renewed interest in Maskelyne's wartime exploits and is
39:25
set to bring this incredible story of blending magic and military strategy to the broader audience.
39:30
The film has been in development for many years, with Kimmerbatch attached to
39:34
the project since 2015. 15.
39:37
After several delays and changes in direction, Colin Trevorrow,
39:41
who's going to be directing this, was responsible for I think directing,
39:45
here we go, Jurassic World.
39:48
If he can handle a dinosaur, he can handle a war, right?
39:52
I would say so. Cool. He's confirmed to direct the project.
39:57
The story will focus on the formation of the Magic Gang, which is the team of
40:02
engineers, the artists, and the illusionists who help work to create this decoy.
40:05
It'd be like Ocean's Eleven, but World War II and magicians.
40:09
Yeah, which is totally what this plot is.
40:14
I hope they do the 21 card trick. Do you think they'll do that in the movie?
40:18
They have to. It's how they beat the Nazis.
40:21
There's no way the 21 card trick beat not. Really? Really? You weren't there, Nick K.
40:30
If i was there and someone went i'm gonna use 21 cards i'd be like i'm out and i would leave,
40:37
tell me when it's over i'll come back and then i'll come back and be like is a trick done,
40:42
if you got enough guys doing it the whole army leaves and suddenly it's just
40:46
the magic gang doing the 21 card trick no nazis war zone that's how it goes
40:50
down how do you drive nazi forces out
40:53
of your town show them card tricks friends show them
40:56
card tricks by the time you get to the third dealing procedure
40:59
everyone is you know back in germany yeah
41:02
now the film adaptation will more likely bring attention to masculine's controversial
41:09
legacy while some historians continue to debate the accuracy of the post-war
41:14
events his role in shaping the military was you know i think not to
41:20
be pushed aside and can't be overlooked i think
41:23
we should all agree on that like he obviously had some influence whether
41:26
or not in his wordings or his storytellings were embellished i think it's only
41:31
fair and as a magician who sought to apply his skills to one of the most critical
41:37
conflicts in history i think masculine story serves as a testament to the power
41:41
and creativity and ingenuity in the face of adversity.
41:45
I think we can agree on that, right? Yep.
41:48
Wonderful. So look, in conclusion...
41:52
Jasper Maskelyne's life was marked by both great success and significant controversy.
41:58
From his early days as a stage magician to his contributions as a military deceptionist
42:04
during World War II, Maskelyne demonstrated a unique ability to blend illusion and strategy.
42:11
While his wartime contributions have been debated by historians,
42:15
there is no doubt that That is, innovative approach to camouflage and deception
42:20
played a role for the Allied victory in North Africa.
42:24
Maskelyne's post-war struggles for recognition, coupled with the controversy
42:28
surrounding the accuracy of his memoirs, have only added to the intrigue surrounding his life.
42:33
And his story is reintroduced to the public through films and books.
42:39
Maskelyne's legacy as the war magician will continue to captivate audiences,
42:43
blend the worlds of magic, history and military strategy.
42:46
And in the end, whether his claims were fully accurate or not,
42:50
Maskelyne's legacy lives on as a reminder of the unexpected ways in which creativity
42:55
and innovation can be used in the most serious of circumstances.
43:00
His story serves as an example of how the most unconventional ideas can have
43:06
significant impact when applied to real-world challenges.
43:10
The upcoming film, The War Magician, will further immortalize Jasper Maskelyne's
43:16
incredible story, bringing his unique blend of magic and military deception to new generations.
43:21
And this story, this report, provides us a comprehensive exploration of Jasper
43:28
Maskelyne's life and career and contributions to World War II.
43:31
It brings together the details of his early life, his rise as a magician,
43:37
and your unique role as a military deception.
43:40
And his legacy, although controversial, is fascinating, to say the least,
43:46
in both magic and military history. What do you guys think?
43:52
Let's discuss. Groovy tunes. I want to talk a little bit more about his family.
43:56
But one thing we didn't talk about is his dad.
43:59
And like when you mentioned the name, I know I'm going to share this just because
44:04
I go here a lot. My library is dad, Neville Maskelyne.
44:09
And he co-wrote this book with David DeVant.
44:12
Our magic. What an amazing look at our art. This volume is.
44:17
It's one of the few books that really take a look at magic as an art.
44:22
And if you look at the contents in this book and we're looking at them here
44:26
online, the chapters of justification,
44:29
rehearsal, speed and presentation and terminology, styles of magic,
44:35
manipulative principles and mental magic.
44:37
This is Maskelyne's father.
44:40
So what a head start. Yeah, I was just thinking that as far as a head start
44:45
or being a springboard of that, it's kind of remarkable. You know,
44:51
to be able to lean on mentors of that nature.
44:54
And this is how things were done back in the day.
44:56
We had people that would take you under their wing.
44:58
You know, it was. This would have been one of the early important books, Our Magic.
45:03
There wasn't a lot of volumes written before this one. And this book really
45:07
just wraps its head around the subject like very few books have.
45:11
If you are a magician and haven't opened this book, it's public domain.
45:15
Main go take a crack and make yourself a
45:18
better magician and thank masculine and then
45:22
when it's wartime and you know that's coming again soon because look at the
45:25
world maybe you'll have the secrets that'll get us through the next one i hope
45:30
not got dark there quick faith in the human race that's okay we'll all have
45:36
jobs soon we'll be we'll form the magic gang and i'll be ready,
45:41
yeah we'll we'll have the 21 recruit chris angel he gets on the front lines
45:46
he's he's going to be scouting the enemy's location chris angel comes to the
45:52
front no he's got boots on the ground the general's just like who's this woman
45:57
you bring forth and chris is like what.
46:04
Are you ready oh yeah
46:08
i i didn't get to see chris's show at the new
46:11
location in vegas but that would have been interesting to see how it
46:15
applies to your war effects i don't do magicians go
46:18
over oh like during the iraq war
46:21
do you know if any magicians went over to entertain during that time absolutely we
46:24
have every time there's been like a an overseas conflict there's always we use
46:28
a group of magicians that are popping up and like we're going and you know four
46:32
or five of them will jump on a plane and go entertain the troops yeah i know
46:37
comedians have gone i've heard stories you know as that's what you are as a
46:42
comedian you tend to tell a lot of stories but,
46:44
yeah i know bands i mean the vandals like my favorite
46:47
punk band they went and performed there you know like it's pretty
46:51
gnarly yeah you know
46:53
unfortunately magicians have in this country have had a lot
46:56
of opportunities to do that the last you know 15 20 years
46:59
and they've done so you know so good on you what a crazy what a crazy gig you
47:04
know what's your gig this week going to iraq and then once you're in iraq you
47:14
infiltrate the enemy troops and start dealing the rose.
47:19
Doing god's work well what i'm sort of realizing as well is that when you look
47:24
at someone like Robert Houdin,
47:25
where magic was not only used to prevent a war, you know, we're looking at Jasper
47:30
Maskelyne in which his magic influence was used in the war.
47:35
I wonder what needs to happen post-war.
47:40
No thoughts okay i'm glad i asked the question we spread
47:44
joy and love and create astonishment and wonder
47:47
to make the world forget their woes that's post-war yeah
47:51
yeah this is what magicians do we make
47:54
people forget their worries for a few minutes at
47:57
a time yeah i prototype a thing that
48:00
didn't work and i haven't quite figured it out yet but i
48:02
i wanted to do a thing with a world map and talk
48:05
about instead of doing a torn and restored newspaper i'm
48:09
using the world map i'm talking about the state that the
48:11
world is in and how all these divisions
48:14
are tearing us apart and i tear up the world map
48:18
and then you restore it like the world map but i wasn't sure if that was enough
48:25
and so i was kind of ruining the effect and i'll share this with you because
48:30
i was having like a pen with like a giant text there and I was talking about
48:33
how these people are here and like drawing black marks about like
48:36
so you have like these black marks sort of marking where everything is yeah
48:40
and the idea would be that when you tear it up and you restore it the black
48:43
marks come into a shape of like a peace sign and I thought that was a bit too lame but yeah.
48:50
Because it doesn't restore. It restores broken, but all the black markings that
48:53
I threw around formed a peace sign.
48:56
I mean, I like it, but yeah, there's some things to work out there.
49:01
I really like the notion of using a map for torn and restored.
49:05
Well, yeah, well, the reason I like it is because a map is naturally folded
49:11
in the way of restoring a newspaper.
49:16
So, yeah. Yeah. Did you see that new newspaper that keeps expanding after the restoration?
49:22
I think this was debuted at magic live. Yeah.
49:24
After the restoration, then you keep unfolding it and now you can do in a,
49:28
like a stage illusion with the thing.
49:30
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's pretty cool. Actually. Yeah. I saw it while I was there
49:35
and I was like, Oh, this is going to be interesting.
49:37
And yeah, you know, you can, it could also be used to like change a person out.
49:41
Like, yeah, that's what I'm saying.
49:42
It's, it's, you know, it's going to be niche for partner acts and stuff like that.
49:46
But if you got, out if you're doing that yeah you produce people change yourself
49:49
into someone else produce the ceo stuff like that from the unfolding i love
49:53
that idea yeah i just think a comically oversized,
49:58
newspaper would be would be amazing that too
50:00
just that is cool yeah but yeah
50:04
it's it's interesting the the
50:09
war effects and it's not something we think about all too often you know i think
50:12
that we've been so removed from it here in australia we've not had to get involved
50:15
at all and the only reason why we get do get involved as far as war efforts
50:18
go it's like we have soldiers that we have alliances with the u.s and we would
50:22
send folks there and it's it's just remarkable that,
50:27
we can it's remarkable how we can strategize how to combat war but like not
50:33
stop but like it would just be wonderful if we could have a way to to end it entirely you know.
50:42
I'm gonna i'm gonna bite my tongue and not give the solution.
50:48
We can solve that problem but it's very grim.
50:55
Yeah let's not create too much controversy but look i
50:58
think it's just the notion of like the ingenuity that's involved with and where
51:03
you can apply it okay i'm sure the magicians have been involved with other things
51:06
for example in a more modern notion let's just take a quick moment and go like
51:10
we had watch builders doing magic we had folks who did typewriters doing magic we now have
51:17
andrew main is like if you look up
51:20
the credits for like chat gtp4 oh the
51:23
amazing magician andrew main he's the guy thank
51:26
you for that love your work you know yeah like
51:30
andrew is part of that you know like he is remarkable in
51:34
so many ways you know i was just thinking
51:37
it would be cool for to use a magician in a modern time is
51:40
to employ some mental experts to use linguistic deception
51:43
and psychological techniques to influence world
51:46
leaders to do you know things of do
51:50
your bidding and things like that i think that might be a a modern approach
51:53
to using magic methods to influence political tides yeah when you think because
52:00
we we we have this amazing medium to communicate certain things and i think
52:05
they may be communicating those sorts of ideas of.
52:08
Peace and you gotta look at what banachek's done with
52:11
just psychological influence peter turner is on
52:14
the cutting edge of what can just be done you know no
52:17
props just you know natural psychology and
52:20
kenton nepper with neuro-linguistic programming
52:24
and his wonder words you apply these
52:27
kind of techniques to certainly your
52:30
magic but why not influence the evil leaders as
52:33
well i wonder man maybe we got
52:36
to infiltrate the the government in some
52:39
way fight the power you know
52:42
there at magic live i will say this there was
52:44
a cia operative of
52:48
sorts and he was actually explaining how to choose
52:51
the most perfect spectator when
52:54
you're choosing someone and he explained the
52:57
many different ways in which you can look at someone and identify
53:00
what they're like and that when you do choose somebody and bring them
53:02
up you know you've chose the best option and i
53:06
think it's something that we do instinctively right you
53:09
look like a nice person come up and get amongst it you know what i mean no one
53:12
looks at somebody with like not making eye contact and crossing their arms and
53:16
just exuding any sort of negative body language and go hey you focus get up
53:21
here like that's just not the way to go about it but we're also not going to
53:26
choose Who's the person who's like, oh,
53:27
me, and wave in their arms, and you have to do it.
53:29
It's like, you know, like I think we just instinctively look for someone nice
53:33
and compliant, you know?
53:36
But that's the sort of thing where...
53:39
For me, I always, you know, when you do things instinctively and then you sort
53:43
of read a body of work or chat to somebody who has actually done the work and
53:49
can prove it in a professional sense,
53:52
it just validates what you already know.
53:55
And I think those moments are kind of important, even though like you think,
53:58
you know, I think the validation from another entity is kind of maybe not important,
54:02
but it's nice to have. What do you think?
54:06
Yeah you know there's how could i argue that mr k.
54:13
Well actually i was thinking about something completely different while you're
54:17
talking i'm gonna come clean here i have no idea what the question is i'm trying
54:21
to engage you this whole episode what the fuck are you doing.
54:27
Look man some days are better than others that's all you know ebbs and flows no i had my mind on a
54:34
related topic and now thanks to the swerve i
54:37
can't even remember what that is so thank goodness we're about
54:39
to wrap this thing up indeed well
54:44
i think we've discussed enough about the wartime and we ended on a positive
54:50
note just to show that you can use your influences in the most positive ways
54:56
and i think that every single person listening we should wrap this up and call
54:59
it We'll make this the final word, if I may.
55:01
And I think what we'll say is that, as I get this ready, it was my outro.
55:06
Okay, so there's people out there doing things as a wartime effort,
55:11
but just keep in mind that people fight battles every single day, okay?
55:14
Whether it be just trying to make ends meet or just fake a smile through a rough day.
55:19
And I think that we as magicians and as people have the ability to change someone's mood for the day.
55:26
That in itself is a superpower. power. And I think that is so important to be
55:30
able to bring to the forefront on a daily basis for every moment you can.
55:34
If you have the ability to make someone smile, you should do so.
55:39
And if you have the ability to make someone's day that little bit better without
55:42
any detriment to yourself, you should do so.
55:45
Anything to add, Doug? Testify.
55:49
Thanks for listening, friends. We'll see you guys next week for another awesome episode.
55:53
Thanks for tuning in. You can scope me out on the grams on Nick K magic,
55:57
Doug, you can scope out his stuff on learn slider hand.com.
56:01
And yeah, I'm out there. You know where to find me.
56:05
Wonderful. Thanks. We'll see you next week. Ciao. Ciao.
56:08
Thanks for listening.
56:12
It's time for us to disappear now, disappear now, but we'll see you again on
56:18
the next episode of the magic guys.