Latest / Beyond The Horizon / Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger Works Every Angle Trying To Punch Holes in Evidence (9/27/26)

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Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger Works Every Angle Trying To Punch Holes in Evidence (9/27/26) · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: And welcome back to the program.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: As we continue to talk about the Hyundai Elantra, I
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: stumbled upon this article in Fox News talking about the
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: digital footprint of this type of Hyundai and how it's
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: basically non-existent. You know how in newer models you have
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: like LoJack or Bluetooth or, you know, different ways that
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: people might be able to track that vehicle via your
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: digital footprint? Well, this Hyundai Elantra, the model that we're
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: talking about here, It doesn't have that. So there's no
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: way for them to track, you know, using instruments within
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: the vehicle. It doesn't have a navigation system or anything
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: like that.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: So pretty bare bones, right?
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: And obviously that makes things much more difficult for investigators
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: as they try and build this blueprint, this footprint of
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: the Hyundai Elantra and where it was and what it
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: was up to. So today we have an article, like
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I said, from Fox News that's talking a little bit
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: more about the digital footprint of this type of Hyundai Elantra.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: So let's get to it. Headline, Idaho murders. Digital footprint
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: for type of Hyundai Elantra is being sought, likely slim
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: to none, expert says. December 13th marked one month since
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: the four University of Idaho students were killed inside an
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: off-campus home. This article was authored by Stephanie Pagonis. And
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: as you continue to build a profile here and you
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: try to find out who's driving this Elantra, well, it's
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: important to be able to have all the information possible, right?
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: And digital information, that would go a long way to
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: help the investigators. But unfortunately, that's not going to be
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: a road they're going to be able to explore, at
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: least via the vehicle. Investigators working the ongoing case involving
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: four University of Idaho students savagely killed last month are
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: likely limited in how they can go about tracking a
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Hyundai Elantra spotted in the area at the time of
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: the slayings, an expert told Fox News Digital. in a
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: grainy ass photo and they can tell you, oh yeah,
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: that's the model. That's what kind of car it is.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Yada, yada, yada.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: And that's the kind of expert that they're talking to here.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Law enforcement officers are sorting through information on approximately 22,000
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: Hyundai Elantras that match the description of the one scene
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: near the crime scene at the time of the murders.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: It was white and its model year was between 2011
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and 2013, police have said.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: Now, how many Hyundai Elantras are out there that fit
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: this description? A whole hell of a lot.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: If they already have 22,000, and that's just in the region,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: I'm guessing, can you imagine how many are outside of
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: that area in neighboring states or throughout the country? But
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: investigators will likely not have the assistance of advanced tracking
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: and GPS technology, at least not any software within the
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: vehicle itself. because Hyundai Elantras were not outfitted with Blue
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: Link technology until 2014, mobile forensics expert Tom Slavensky told
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Fox News Digital. And I know a lot of people
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: have this question, like if anyone was going to be
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: able to track, you know, via, if they found the
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: vehicle or whatever, be able to use that information to
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: track it with the instruments on board. And with this
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: model number not having that stuff onboarded until a year after,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: That's not going to be a possibility, at least according
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: to this expert. A spokesperson for Hyundai would not comment
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: when contacted multiple times for confirmation regarding the Blue Link software.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: And remember, we've talked.
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: About it a little bit before, but this model of
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Hyundai and Hyundais in general, along with Kias, are the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: most stolen vehicle in America right now. And there's like
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: a TikTok challenge about it. All you need is a
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: USB cable and you can jumpstart or hotwire, I guess
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: you would say, one of these Hyundais. So how difficult
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: would it be for somebody to watch one of those
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: videos and then hotwire one of these and steal one? Now, again,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I have no evidence that that's what happened. But logically speaking,
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: why would you use your own vehicle to commit a
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: crime like this? Slavensky, founder and president of Cellular Forensics LLC,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: said his research showed the Hyundai Elantras from before 2014
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: do not include third party technology that would allow investigators
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: to pinpoint vehicles locations at certain dates and times. So
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: Debbie Collier is a woman who died down in Georgia
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: and they thought it was a murder. Well, it ended up,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: according to the official report, that she killed herself. but
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: they were able to track her due to the onboarded
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: equipment in this rental vehicle. They were able to track
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: her location through all of that. And this vehicle, unfortunately,
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: doesn't have that. So if they do catch the person,
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: they won't be able to go back and build that
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: digital footprint the way they would be able to if
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: it was a newer vehicle. For that car, the only
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: thing it has is internal information. In other words, when
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: they find the car, they can then try to download
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: what phone was connected to it, he said. describing the
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: kind of information that could later be gleaned from the vehicle.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: Police revealed December 7th that they had gathered information through
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: tips and leads about a 2011 to 2013 white Hyundai
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: Elantra being in the immediate area of the King Street
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: residence during the early morning hours of November 13th. So
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: they can use whatever was internalized, right? Say somebody plug
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: their phone in to the radio or whatever, to the
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: car with their USB connector, well, they'll be able to
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: look at that because it's internalized onto the computer. But
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: as far as onboarded equipment, just not going to work.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Or for instance, say there's some Bluetooth, if they Bluetoothed
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: into it, then they'll be able to track it that
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: way as well. Investigators have since been collecting surveillance footage
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: related to the vehicle and the case. Kane Franichich, a
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: landlord for a property 0.3 miles away from the home
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: where the students were killed, told Fox News Digital he
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: handed over hours of video footage from the building surveillance system.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: He provided police with footage on November 14th, and the video,
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: which included footage of a white vehicle, spanned from 2 a.m.
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: through noon on the day of the killings, he said. Damn.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, look.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: This is how they figured out that this white vehicle
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: is a vehicle of interest. They went through all of
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: these different videos that they collected, surveillance videos, and my
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: guess is they saw this white vehicle in multiple videos
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: throughout the area of where the murders happened. And then
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: going back to reconstruct that, they built this footprint of
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: where this vehicle might have been. On Tuesday, police went
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: to a gas station on Troy Road in Moscow to
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: collect eight hours of surveillance footage, including a portion of
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: that showed a white sedan passing the area around 3.45 a.m.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: on the morning of the murders, Fox News Digital previously reported.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: And all of these little clues add up to build
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: the bigger picture. And eventually, if you have enough of
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: these little clues, you can start to piece together where
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: this car was at and what it was up to.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: Ethan Chapin, Kaylee Gonsalves, Zanaker Nodal, and Madison Mogan were
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: discovered fatally stabbed inside their three-story King Road residence just
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: before noon, November 13th. The home is located just one
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: block from the University of Idaho campus within view of
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: some of the fraternity houses. Officials have said they believe
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: the victims were asleep when they were attacked between 3 a.m.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: And 4 a.m.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Each victim suffered several stab wounds and some showed signs
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: of trying to defend themselves. I have a funny feeling
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: when all is said and done, we're going to hear
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: a lot more about them trying to defend themselves. I'm
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: not too sure if it was as straightforward as we're
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: being told because we're hearing other stories, right? That there
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: was some sort of scuffle, stuff like that. And usually
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: where there's some smoke, there's some fire. So my guess
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: is that there were some more defensive wounds than we're
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: even hearing about. The homicides were carried out on the
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: second and third floors. Two other roommates were on the
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: bottom floor of the home. and were unharmed, police said.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Moscow police officers responded around 11.58 a.m. to a report
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: of an unconscious person at the address, but several people
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: had gathered at the crime scene by the time police arrived,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: officials said. And again, that is so bad for the
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: crime scene, having so many people present. When you're going
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: through as an investigator, that's the worst thing that could
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: possibly happen. That's why when somebody is murdered or any
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: crime is committed, they rope the area off right away
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: so they can have as sterile of a crime scene
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: as possible. That way you can get the evidence that
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: you need to get you a conviction later on. The
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: 911 call originated from inside the residence and came from
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: one of the surviving roommates. Police said multiple people allegedly
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: spoke to the dispatcher before officers arrived. Police are analyzing
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: 113 pieces of physical evidence and about 4,000 photos from
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: the scene. They have also received more than 2,645 emails
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and over 2,770 calls to the city of Moscow tip line,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: police said. The FBI has received more than 1,084 digital
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: media submissions. Now, every time we go through and we
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: do the official police release, the Moscow police release, they
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: don't update those numbers. They just say more than. So
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: my guess is they're getting a ton of information. A
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: ton of tips are coming in. How many of those
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: tips are good tips?
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: But the point is, the more tips that come in,
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: at least in my opinion, the better off we are.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: The Moscow Police Department is urging the public to submit
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: any images or information that they think could be important
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: or useful to their investigation. They can do so by
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: calling 208-883-7180. Or you could submit tips through the tip
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: line at tipline at ci.mosco.id.us and sending digital media to
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: the FBI link. So there's where we're at, folks, about
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: the car. And I thought it was interesting to add
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: this little bit because I know there's a lot of
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: people out there who aren't car buffs just like me.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I have no idea about cars. Zero, zero idea. So
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: I know people had those questions. Is there a way
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: to track this car? Was there GPS in it? You know,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: all of that stuff. And now we know from an
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: expert that those base models anyway, don't come on boarded
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: with that. So unless there was upgrades and they put
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that in themselves, we're dealing with a pretty basic vehicle.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So the police certainly have their work cut out for them.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Let's hope that they're continuing to build this profile. And
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: let's hope that soon, when we get together here on
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: the podcast, we can talk about the sick bastard or
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: bastards being caught. All right, folks, that's going to do
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: it for this one. If you'd like to contact me,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: you can do that at bobbycapucci at protonmail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: at protonmail.com. You can also find me on Twitter at
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The link that I discussed can be
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: found in the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: back to the program. Anytime you have a story that
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: catches the headlines like the murders in Moscow have, you're
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: going to have a lot of people that come out
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and have some opinions about what went down. And a
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: lot of those opinions obviously are coming from ex-lawyers or
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: federal prosecutors or FBI agents. And it's interesting to see
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: how each one of them, depending on what their background is,
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: how they approach things. You have the defense attorneys who
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: are always talking about how you can punch holes in this,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: that or the other thing.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And then you have the former.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Prosecutors or FBI agents who get out there and talk
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: about how strong all of the evidence in the affidavit is. Well,
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: it can't be both ways, right? It's either one or
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: the other. Either that evidence is strong or false. They're
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: going to be able to punch some holes in it. Now,
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: my guess is they'll be able to punch some holes
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: in certain pieces of evidence that get provided. However, we
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: have to keep in mind that we have only seen
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: just the very surface of what the investigators have cooking up.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And even in this probable cause affidavit that was released,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: they gave us more information than we usually get in
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: one of those probable cause affidavits. So that leads me
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: to believe that they have a lot more that they
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: just didn't want to put in there yet. So with
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: that in mind, we're going to hop into our article
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: from Law and Crime, where we're going to hear from
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Scott Peterson's former attorney, who says that the Kohlberger defense
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: can poke holes in every single piece of evidence against him. Now,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know how much advice I'd be taking from
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Scott Peterson's lawyer, considering Scott Peterson is never getting out
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: of jail again. But here we are once again hearing
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: from a defense attorney who lost a major case talking
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: about how somebody else is going to win theirs.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: Headlined.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: Scott Peterson's former attorney says Brian Koberger's defense can poke
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: holes in every single piece of evidence against him. Yeah,
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: you mean the evidence that you've seen? What about all
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: of the evidence that hasn't been provided yet? And I
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: wonder if she was this confident before Scott Peterson got
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: sent to the clink for the rest of his life.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: It always cracks me up with these big talking defense
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: attorneys who end up having their biggest clients lose their cases,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: and go to prison forever. But yet they're going to
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: get out here and talk about how this one should
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: punch holes in that piece of evidence.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: This article was authored by Colin Kambacher. A former attorney
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: for convicted murderer Scott Peterson says that Brian Koberger's defense
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: counsel should be able to poke holes in every single
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: piece of this evidence law enforcement has publicly released in
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: the case accusing the criminal justice graduate of the grisly
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: quadruple homicide that took the lives of four University of
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Idaho students late last year. Well, yeah, of course, any
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: halfway competent attorney should be able to look at this
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: evidence and try and punch some holes in it. The
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: question is, what strategy are you going to use to
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: punch those holes? Is it going to be all based
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: on technical. Oh, well, this couldn't have happened or his
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: phone pinged here because he lived 10 miles away. That's
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: all fine and well. And that's something that you can say,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: but you're going to have to prove that in a
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: court of law. So I find all of this bombastic
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: talk about how this is going to get a hole
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: punched in it, or that's going to get a hole
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: punched in it to be laughable, honestly, because all of
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: this talk usually ends up fizzling out and turning into nothing.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I remember Ghislaine Maxwell's lawyers popping off at the lip
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: about this and that and the other thing and about
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: how their experts are going to come in and you'll
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: see how innocent their client was. Yeah, okay, that worked
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: out well for everybody involved. Because guess what, folks? If
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: you're not innocent, it doesn't matter what sort of histrionics
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: your lawyer goes through. It doesn't matter what sort of
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: pomp and circumstance he or she tries to create. Because
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: if there's no evidence to back that up, then it's
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: nothing more than a dog and pony show put on
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: by the defense team to try and sow some seeds
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: of doubt in the minds of the jurors. But unfortunately
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: for a lot of these defense teams, the jurors are
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: a lot smarter than that. And they take their time
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: to go through the evidence, process the evidence, and look
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: at what the truth is. Not what the spin is,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: not what the might have beens are, what the actual
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: facts in the case are. And of course, the defense
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: is going to try and use every single thing available
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: to them to get their client off.
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: And they should do that.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: But the hard part is getting the jury to buy
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: the bullshit that you're selling. During the early morning hours
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: of November 13th, 2022, Ethan Chapin, Zanna Kernodle, Kaylee Gonsalves,
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: and Madison Mogin were stabbed to death on the second
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: and third floors of an off-campus house in the college
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: town of Moscow. Some of the victims were killed as
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: they slept, according to the Latah County Coroner. Notice how
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: the narrative has shifted, right? To some of them have
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: been killed while they slept. Remember when we first heard
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: about the story, it was they were all killed while
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: they were sleeping. But that's obviously not the case considering
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: what we heard in that affidavit. Koberger was arrested earlier
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: this month at his parents' home in Pennsylvania after a
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: cross-country trek with his father in a white Hyundai Elantra,
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: the same make and model of a car that law
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: enforcement identified as the subject of their investigation in the
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: aftermath of the shocking massacre. Lara Uretzian sat down for
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: an interview with Law and Crime Network reporter Annette Levy
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: during a recent episode of Sidebar. Near the end of
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the interview, the one-time member of Peterson's defense team took
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: issue with the strength of some of the evidence marshaled
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: against the defendant in a probable cause affidavit. So I
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: always like to present both sides of the argument here, right?
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: Because I want to follow the evidence wherever it leads us. However,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: so far, the evidence that I have seen, it's not
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: looking good for Kohlberger. So all of these defense attorneys
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: that get out here and talk about how all these
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: holes are going to get punched in the affidavit, I
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: have my doubts about that. Levy recounted perhaps the most
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: dramatic account from that court document, an account by surviving
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: roommate Dylan Mortensen. The probable cause affidavit reads, DM stated
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: she opened her door for the third time after she
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: heard the crying and saw a figure clad in black
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: nose walking towards her. DM described the figure as 5'10
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: or taller, male, not very muscular, but athletically built with
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: bushy eyebrows. The male walked past DM as she stood
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: in a frozen shock phase. The male walked towards the
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: back sliding glass door. Now, this isn't going to be
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: really a home run hit for the prosecution here. There's
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: no doubt that this is something that can have some
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: holes poked in it. She didn't see his face. She
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: saw the bushy eyebrows. And a general vague description of
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: who she says was the person who committed these murders.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: So that's going to be something that the defense can
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: certainly sink their teeth into.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: No doubt about that.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: But when you look at everything else that has been
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: added to this, all of the other evidence, I just
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: don't see a way out for Koberger here. She says
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: she saw a man clad in black, walk toward her door,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: going out the sliding glass door. And she said he
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: had bushy eyebrows. The host prompted her guest. To our knowledge,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: she hasn't said, yeah, that was him, but she gives
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: a description. And I said this earlier when we first
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: got this information. While I think it's a decent bit
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: of evidence to have, it's not truly an eyewitness statement.
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Account of what went down.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: So I don't know how strong that's going to be
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: as far as testimony in the courtroom. I don't know
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: if this is going to be like a home run
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: for the prosecution, but it'll add a little bit of
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: flavor to the sauce. She can't say that it was
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: him because his face is covered. You're Etsy and replied again.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: All of this is circumstantial evidence. And I would expect
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: the defense to be attacking every single piece of evidence
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: that they had at least mentioned in that affidavit because
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: there are ways to poke holes in every single of
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: these pieces, right? Well, of course there is if you're
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: doing it in a singular manner. But in the totality
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: of everything we know, it makes it a lot more difficult.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: You have to take a lot of leaps and go
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: to a lot of places where you're giving Koberger a
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: big time benefit of the doubt. In the face of
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: some pretty strong evidence. Now, obviously, dude hasn't been convicted yet.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: So we can't run around and say, oh, he definitely
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: did it. But when you look at everything and the
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: totality of it all, I don't know how any of
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: these defense attorneys consider and say, oh, yeah, this is
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: going to.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Be an easy one. We can poke a lot of
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: holes in all of this.
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: It's real easy to be confident when you're sitting on
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: a TV show talking about this. I don't think that
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Ann Taylor is lawyer shares your confidence. The defense attorney
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: then went on to analyze how Koberger's own lawyers might
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: dispute the DNA evidence found at the scene on a
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: sheath for a knife believed to be the murder weapon.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: The Moscow Police Department alleges the DNA on the sheath
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: leads back to Koberger through a genealogical test based on
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: the suspect's father's DNA. So very strong stuff here. This
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: is stuff that's been used in court forever. It's like
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: basically a paternity test, right? So the accuracy is pretty staggering.
• 22:03
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• 22:09
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• 22:24
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• 22:33
  Speaker 2: On December 28th, 2022, Idaho State Lab reported that a
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: DNA profile obtained from the Koberger family's trash and the
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: DNA profile obtained from the sheath identified a male as
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: not being excluded as the biological father of the suspect.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: The affidavit says at least 99.9998% of the male population
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: would be expected to be excluded from the possibility of
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: being the suspect's biological father. Uretzian was less than impressed.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: Wait a minute, hold on. A defense attorney who's not
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: impressed with forensic evidence? This could have been something that
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: maybe he touched it at some other time. Transfer type DNA.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: It could have happened on a previous night, on a
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: previous date, she mused. Or there may be issues with
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: the DNA testing itself. And I'm sure the defense will
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: hire their own expert and do their own testing. Now, look,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: that sounds great while you're sitting in a studio somewhere
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: or in your house on a Zoom call doing an interview.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: How do you think a jury is going to look
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: at that?
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: So as a defense attorney, you mean to tell me
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: you're going to walk into a courtroom and you're going
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: to allege that what? There was a relationship between Brian
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: Koberger and one of these girls and the relationship was
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: so deep and so heavy and they loved him so
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: much that they slept with the night sheath that he
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: gave them. I mean, how are you going to sell
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: this to the jury? I just don't understand how you
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: can do that without any receipts. And by receipts, I mean,
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: if you're going to come out here and say, that
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Brian Koberger knew them previously. And that's how the, the
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: touch DNA got on the knife sheath. You have to
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: prove that you just saying that to try and sow
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: seeds of doubt in the minds of the jury, that's
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: not going to cut it. So it sounds all fine
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: and well right now and something to sink your teeth
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: into if you're the defense, but When the rubber meets
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: the road and we get down to it, I highly
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: doubt any of that kind of nonsense, that contrived BS,
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: is going to work.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: What's next? It was Bigfoot?
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: If there's any issues, they're going to bring it up,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the attorney went on. In her most critical tone, Uretzian
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: dismissively referred to the phone-related information cited by law enforcement
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: so far. According to MPD Corporal Brett Payne, Kohlberger's phone
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: used the same cellular tower that provided coverage to the
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: victim's house on at least 12 occasions prior to November 13th, 2022.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: He could have been anywhere, the defense attorney said. He
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: lives 8 to 10 miles away from this location where
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: the crime occurred. So how many other times did it ping?
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: Does the tower always pick up his phone while it's
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: at his house? Pretty simple way to figure that out, right?
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: Bring the phone that the police sees to his house
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: and see what happens. So she talks about all these
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: holes that can be punched in the evidence. Her arguments
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: are pretty flimsy here. And I'm certainly not a prosecutor.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: He could have just been eight to 10 miles away
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: and the cell towers would have, he would have, his
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: phone would have picked up the cell tower in the
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: area of the residence where the students were.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: That's nothing strange. Okay, sure.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: I'm sure the jury is going to feel the same
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: way as defense attorney for Scott Peterson here. And here's
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: the cincher for me. All of those houses that he
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: was driving by, including the Moscow house, allegedly. Did any
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: of those Wi-Fi routers pick up his cell phone? My
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: guess is they might have. So. The police definitely have
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: that information. That was all part of the digital warrants
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that they were serving. And if they're using geofence warrants,
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: forget it. This dude is as good as cooked. And
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: for me, I expect the government to prove this case, right?
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I'm not giving them a free pass here. They're going
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: to have to prove this case in a court of law.
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: And so far, with what we have seen with probable
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: cause and with the investigation up to this point, it
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: looks like they're on the right path. Now, Koberger is
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: going to get his chance. He's going to have his
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: day in court. He's going to get to present his evidence.
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: And when that's presented, we'll certainly talk about it. But here,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: this is how the first stage works. This is the
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: charging phase. This is when the prosecution is really on
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: the offense. So that's why we're getting the information that
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: we're getting. And that's why we're hearing what we're hearing
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: so far. But Koberger is going to get his chance
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: as well. And that's why the gag order is crucial,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: because there's not going to be any information from official sources.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: So all of the talk about him being prosecuted in
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: public is a bunch of BS. The public's going to
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: do what the public's going to do. No matter what
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: our opinions are, that's not going to affect what a
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: jury sees or hears in that courtroom. And that's where
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: Brian Koberger better make his arguments.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to contact me, you can do that
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: at BobbyCapucci at ProtonMail.com. That's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at ProtonMail.com. You can
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I. The
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: link that I discussed can be found in the description box.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Hello, it is Ryan.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the program. In
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: this episode, we're going to spin right back up to
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: Moscow and we're going to dive right back into those
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: court documents. This time, we're taking a look at the
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: defendant's objection to the state's notice of intent to use
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: IRE 404B evidence. Case number CR01-24-31665 State of Idaho Plaintiff vs.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Brian C.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger, the defendant. Comes now. Brian C.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Kohlberger buying through his attorneys of record and hereby objects
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: to the state's notice of intent to use IRE 404B evidence.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Filed on February 4, 2025, pursuant to IRE 404B2, the
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: state intends to present evidence of crimes, wrongs, and other acts. Specifically,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: the state intends to use the video of a traffic
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: stop on August 21, 2022, and the citation regarding the
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: same traffic stop for the purpose of proving defendant's identity,
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: vehicle address, and phone number. For the reasons set forth below, Mr.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: Kohlberger objects to the use of this evidence.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Argument.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: The state misconstrues the identity aspect of Rule 404B because
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: the August 21, 2022 traffic stop bears no resemblance to
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: the crime charged and should be excluded from the evidence.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: When the state presented the video of a traffic stop
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: on August 21, 2022 and the corresponding citation as evidence
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: to the grand jury, Page 43.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: Page 44.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: On grounds of biased grand jury, inadmissible evidence, lack of
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: sufficient evidence, and prosecutorial misconduct. Page 43. The state misconstrues
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: the identity aspect of IRE 404B. Evidence of prior misconduct
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: is relevant on the issue of identity when the evidence
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: demonstrates sufficiently similar as well as distinctive characteristics or patterns
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: between the prior misconduct and the charged crime.
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: State v.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Levitt 171 Idaho 757 2023, citing State v. Porter, 130, Idaho, 772, 783, 948, p. 2d, 127, 128, 1997.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: When the other act's evidence is introduced to prove identity,
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: as proposed by the state in this case, the characteristics
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: of the other crime or act must be sufficiently distinctive
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: to warrant an inference that the person who committed the
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: act also committed the offense at issue. Neither the video
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: nor of a traffic stop on August 21, 2022, nor
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: the corresponding citation, are similar to the charge of defense
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: of murder, see United States v. Schramm, 746, Federal Appendix 688,
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: 690 and 91, 9th Circuit, 2018. Conviction reversed and remanded
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: where video and audio evidence of a defendant's prior encounters
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: with police was offered to prove identity and admission of
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: such evidence, prejudice, defendants, substantial rights. The state has other
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: ways to prove Mr. Koberger's identity without using a prior
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: bad act. B. Rule 404B excludes the reference to the
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: August 21, 2022 traffic stop as evidence in this case.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Evidence of a crime, wrong, or other act is not
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: admissible to prove a person's character in order to show
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: with character.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: IRE 404B1.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Permitted uses of other crimes, wrongs, or acts is when
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: the evidence is being used for another purpose such as
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: proving motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity, absence of mistake,
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: or lack of accident.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: IRE 404B2.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: The prejudicial effect of character evidence is that it induces
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: the jury to believe the accused is more likely to
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: have committed the crime on trial because he is a
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: man of criminal character.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: State v. Grist, 147, Idaho 49, 52, 205, p. 3d, 1185, 1188, 2009,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: citing State v. Wren, 99, Idaho 506, 510, 584, p.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: 2d, 1231, 1235, 1978.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: Character evidence, therefore, takes the jury away from their primary
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: consideration of the guilt and or innocence of the particular
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: crime on trial.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: The drafters of the.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: IRE 404B were careful to guard against the admission of
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: evidence that would unduly prejudice the defendant, while still allowing
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: the prosecution to present probative evidence. Admissibility of misconduct evidence
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: is subject to a two-tiered analysis, State v. Anderson, 168
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Idaho 758, 769 and 70, 47 P. 3D 350, 361 and 62, 2021,
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: citing State v. Grist, 147, Idaho, 49, 51, 205, p. 3d, 1185, 1187, 2009.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: State v. Field, 144, Idaho, 559, 569, 165, p.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: 3d, 273, 283, 2007. First, the court must determine what
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: the evidence is relevant to a material or and disputed
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: issue concerning the crime charged. Field 144, Idaho at 569, P. 3D
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: at 283. Second, the court must determine what the probative
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: value of the evidence is outweighed by the danger of
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: unfair prejudice to the defendant. See also State v. Anderson 168,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Idaho 758, 769, and 70. 487, P. 3D 350, 361, and 62, 2021.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Citing State, Burr's Grist, 147, Idaho, 4951-205-P.3D, 1185-1187, 2009. C.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Rules 401, 402, and 403 exclude the traffic stop evidence
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: as irrelevant and unfairly prejudicial. In addition to exclusion under
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Rule 404B and a reference to the video and citation
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: related to the August 21, 2022 traffic stop, must be
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: excluded as not relevant to the allegations in this case.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: To be admissible, evidence must be relevant. IRE 402 Evidence
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: is relevant if a. It has any tendency to make
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: a fact more or less probable than it would be
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: without the evidence, and b. The fact is of consequence
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: in determining the action. IRE 401 See also State v.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Smith 107 Idaho 800 809 516 P. 3D 1071-1080-2022 State v.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Sheldon 145, Idaho 225-228-178 P. 3D 28-31-2008 Whether a fact is
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: of consequence or material is determined by its relationship to
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: the legal theories presented by the parties.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: Smith 107, Idaho 809-516 P. 3D- 1080.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: In this case, evidence that Mr. Kohlberger was stopped for
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: a traffic violation on August 21, 2022 is not reasonably
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: tied to a crime charged and must be excluded from
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: evidence as irrelevant and not material to the crimes charged
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: in this case. Under IRE 403, the court may exclude
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: character evidence if its probative value is substantially outweighed by
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: a danger of One or more of the following. Unfair prejudice,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: confusing the issues, misleading the jury, undue delay, wasting time,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: or needlessly presenting cumulative evidence. IRE 403. This rule requires
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: the court to balance the probative value of the evidence
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: against the danger that the evidence may be unfairly prejudicial.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: State v.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Johnson, Idaho 544 P. 3d 766-774 Idaho 2024 See also IRE 403.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: Even assuming this court concludes that the character evidence discussed
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: in the state's 404b notice is somehow relevant, whatever minimal
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: probative value it may have is substantially outweighed by the
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: danger of unfair prejudice and confusion of the issues. Unfair
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: prejudice is prejudice that tends to suggest a decision on
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: an improper basis. Johnson 544 p. 3d at 774 Citing State v. Diaz, 170, Idaho, 79, 91.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: 507, P. 3D, 1109, 1121, 2022.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: The character evidence identified in the state's 404B notice has
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: no nexus to the criminal charges against Mr.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Kohlberger.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: This evidence confuses the issue. If the video and corresponding
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: citation for the traffic violation on August 21, 2022 is
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: is presented to the jury, the jury might believe that Mr.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Kohlberger is guilty of the crime's charge because he's a
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: person prone to wrongful behavior. As a consequence, there is
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: a danger that the jury would reach a decision on
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: an improper basis due to evidence that is unfairly prejudicial. D.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Admission of irrelevant evidence violates the process. Under the Federal Constitution,
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Article 14. The admission of irrelevant character evidence violates due
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: process and can render a trial fundamentally unfair. McKinney v. Reese,
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: 993 F. 2d, 1378-1380, 9th Circuit, 1993. The rule against the
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: use of character evidence to show conformance with or propensity
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: is a historically grounded rule of evidence.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: I.D.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: At 1381. The evidence here is even more remote to
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: the alleged criminal conduct than that described in McKinney, the
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: possession and use of a knife by the appellant in
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: the context of his mother's homicide, there's no permissible inference
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: that could be drawn from the character evidence identified in
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: the state's 404b notice and therefore admission would violate Mr.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: Kohlberger's due process to a fair trial.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: Conclusion.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Based on the foregoing reasons Mr. Kohlberger respectfully requests that
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: this court issue an order denying the introduction and admission
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: of of the state's proposed IRE 404B evidence. This document
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: was dated March 17th of 2025 and it was signed
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: by Elisa G.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: Massoff.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: All of the information that goes with this episode, including
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: my contact information, can be found in the description box.