Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Ashley Myhre and Pete Day Talk Raw Overlanding and Motorcycle Travel

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Ashley Myhre and Pete Day Talk Raw Overlanding and Motorcycle Travel · The Overland Journal Podcast

0:06
Speaker 1: Well, hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. We
0:10
Speaker 1: are here with our hosts.
0:11
Speaker 2: Matt Scott Brady and Matt Scott Alan Brady Scott. We
0:16
Speaker 2: are just a whole bunch three first names interview people
0:19
Speaker 2: who do not have three first names on this podcast.
0:22
Speaker 3: That's right.
0:23
Speaker 1: So we're here with Pete and Ash from Moscow, Moto,
0:26
Speaker 1: and we're going to talk a little bit about Moscow, Moto,
0:29
Speaker 1: but we're more going to talk about the fact that
0:31
Speaker 1: these are two of the most inspirational travelers out there
0:34
Speaker 1: right now. You guys are doing wonderful, wonderful travel. You're
0:38
Speaker 1: doing you know, light and fast travel, You're getting deep
0:42
Speaker 1: into these cultures, you're spending a lot of time in
0:44
Speaker 1: these places, and you're doing just some really unusual, kind
0:48
Speaker 1: of austere adventures. We thought we would it would be
0:51
Speaker 1: great to hear about your most recent trip to Africa,
0:55
Speaker 1: so kind of give us the lowdown on that.
0:57
Speaker 3: Awesome.
0:57
Speaker 2: Happy to do that, and thanks so much for having
0:59
Speaker 2: us on this. So I it's some of the things
1:01
Speaker 2: you just said about us, I would say about you
1:03
Speaker 2: if you were coming on a podcast, and we're doing
1:04
Speaker 2: so that's funny.
1:05
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Black Series Camper for supporting this week's podcast.
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1:43
Speaker 4: Our most recent trip was to West Africa. That was
1:45
Speaker 4: in February. We were there for about a month and
1:48
Speaker 4: it was in Liberia and Sierra Leone, through two countries
1:51
Speaker 4: we didn't really know a whole lot about before going there.
1:53
Speaker 4: These are like two little tiny countries the middle of
1:55
Speaker 4: West Africa that have a really crazy history, and I
1:57
Speaker 4: think a lot of the world's understanding these two places
2:00
Speaker 4: comes really from the Civil War. When most people think
2:02
Speaker 4: of these this part of West Africa, they think of
2:04
Speaker 4: war or they think of Ebola, and because of those
2:06
Speaker 4: two things, they haven't had a lot of visitors for
2:08
Speaker 4: a very long time. And they're sort of opening up
2:10
Speaker 4: to the world now, and we kind of popped up
2:12
Speaker 4: on our radar.
2:13
Speaker 2: Were actually supposed to be some more completely different in Asia.
2:15
Speaker 2: And I was back in Philadelphia visiting my folks.
2:18
Speaker 5: You're going to Bhutan one of the rally for rangers.
2:22
Speaker 5: Oh nice, Yeah, that fell through because of COVID so.
2:25
Speaker 3: Last shutdown, Like, oh yeah, hard.
2:28
Speaker 2: I talked to the Liberian guy in Philadelphia and he
2:30
Speaker 2: told us about Liberia and it's like two weeks before we're.
2:32
Speaker 3: Supposed to go to Bhutan. And I came home. I
2:34
Speaker 3: googled it on the flight.
2:35
Speaker 2: Home, approached the idea of Ash and said, Ash, what
2:37
Speaker 2: do you think about Liberia?
2:38
Speaker 3: And she's like, where exactly? Let's get on.
2:41
Speaker 2: Google and was there a visa requirement or a visa
2:44
Speaker 2: requirement because it pretty game it was just somebody set
2:46
Speaker 2: your passport in or is it on arrival?
2:48
Speaker 3: Or he's did we did.
2:50
Speaker 6: Send our passports?
2:51
Speaker 2: Do we do that for Sierra Leone or for oh
2:53
Speaker 2: my gosh, I can hardly remember now. As so much
2:55
Speaker 2: has happened.
2:56
Speaker 5: Since then, we had help. I mean this is this
2:58
Speaker 5: is part of the story, is that we got help.
3:00
Speaker 5: We reached out to someone or we just reached out
3:02
Speaker 5: to Facebook and our networks in general and said, hey,
3:04
Speaker 5: does anybody know anybody in Liberia.
3:06
Speaker 6: We made a good.
3:07
Speaker 5: Contact there and then they knew someone They had actually
3:10
Speaker 5: worked for someone.
3:10
Speaker 6: It was someone who knew us through Moscow and then he.
3:14
Speaker 5: Uh, guy in Argentina, a guy in Argentina who used
3:17
Speaker 5: to live in Sierra Leone and.
3:18
Speaker 6: Was just connected to this whole string of people.
3:21
Speaker 1: So fixtures on the ground make all the difference.
3:24
Speaker 6: They do.
3:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we just put it out on social and
3:25
Speaker 2: this guy responded and ended up being a huge help
3:27
Speaker 2: to us. And so I think we got our Liberia
3:29
Speaker 2: visas through the embassy and then Sierra Leone visas he
3:32
Speaker 2: helped us get via email, and yeah, we just booked
3:35
Speaker 2: our flights and landed in Liberia. We had really nothing
3:37
Speaker 2: lined up except a guy that he a Liberian guy
3:40
Speaker 2: that he'd introduced us to there, and we didn't know
3:42
Speaker 2: much about him. He turned out he was a movie
3:43
Speaker 2: producer of all things. And the idea was basically let's
3:48
Speaker 2: just get there. Let's buy a couple of inexpensive motorcycles
3:50
Speaker 2: and go ride them around for a month and sell
3:52
Speaker 2: them at the end.
3:52
Speaker 3: And that that was about the extent of it.
3:54
Speaker 1: Is that what you guys will typically do, we rent,
3:56
Speaker 1: you'll buy, we buy.
3:58
Speaker 5: So I mean, we won't go out of our way
4:00
Speaker 5: if we've chosen a country where there are plenty of
4:03
Speaker 5: rental operations, and it's it makes sense.
4:06
Speaker 2: To like, it would be silly to buy scooters in
4:08
Speaker 2: sassic stations right right exactly.
4:10
Speaker 5: Or even a motorcycle, like I need to buy a
4:12
Speaker 5: motorcycle in self the stage the motorcycles really.
4:14
Speaker 3: Problems a passport. That's always what scares me.
4:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, So we do it when it makes sense, which
4:21
Speaker 5: is most of the time, because we're picking these really
4:23
Speaker 5: obscure places that don't have any rental operations.
4:26
Speaker 2: Rentals aren't available. Yeah, and you can acquire these bikes,
4:28
Speaker 2: you know, if we're really inexpensive. I mean we're talking
4:30
Speaker 2: how did you go through the process of buying the bike?
4:33
Speaker 1: And the reason why I asked, I've always thought when
4:35
Speaker 1: I go to India the first time, I want to
4:37
Speaker 1: just like get off the plane with like a wad
4:39
Speaker 1: of cash.
4:40
Speaker 3: Find the first guy, first guy rupees.
4:44
Speaker 1: Well, and my thought is just just like, find the
4:47
Speaker 1: first dude that's like about my same size, and you
4:50
Speaker 1: buy his royal endfield and his helmet, and he's just like,
4:52
Speaker 1: overgo that.
4:53
Speaker 5: Would take me to the motorcycle mall. They will have
4:57
Speaker 5: a motorcycle mall and he can take you or take you.
5:01
Speaker 3: We should go, well, we should go out. That happened.
5:04
Speaker 3: I've been to India, let's go. That trip you just
5:06
Speaker 3: explained is so incredibly doable.
5:08
Speaker 2: I mean, what's happened is these Indian and Chinese motorcycles,
5:11
Speaker 2: you know, are becoming so prevalent in the developing world
5:13
Speaker 2: that there's not really any country you can't go to
5:15
Speaker 2: and buy one. And the prices range anywhere from maybe
5:18
Speaker 2: six hundred dollars US to two thousand dollars US in
5:21
Speaker 2: most of these countries, and you can get at least
5:23
Speaker 2: half that back at the end by selling it to
5:25
Speaker 2: a local, and they consider that really inexpensive because the
5:27
Speaker 2: bike's still basically brand new, and you got to ride
5:29
Speaker 2: a bike for a week, a month, two months, however long.
5:32
Speaker 1: How did you go through the process of registering it
5:34
Speaker 1: or do you just use the paperwork that they've got
5:36
Speaker 1: already on the license that they've already got there.
5:38
Speaker 5: They do everything at the dealership pretty much. They handle everything.
5:41
Speaker 5: I mean, they go so above and beyond. It's so
5:43
Speaker 5: unusual what you're doing. The place that you end up
5:46
Speaker 5: choosing will probably be one of the nicer dealerships or
5:49
Speaker 5: where there was there's someone who speaks English and is
5:51
Speaker 5: able to help you. So in this case, I mean,
5:53
Speaker 5: we just had more than what we needed. He tried
5:55
Speaker 5: to give us jackets and pants and helmets.
5:58
Speaker 6: And we gos of oil and we're like, no.
6:03
Speaker 3: It's furniture.
6:04
Speaker 2: It's a furniture store's other products furniture and has like
6:07
Speaker 2: eight motorcycles lined up in front. He doesn't know anything
6:09
Speaker 2: about motorcycles, and that's you buy it from me selling
6:11
Speaker 2: beds and sofas and stuff.
6:13
Speaker 6: For sure, we had everything. I mean, so the day
6:15
Speaker 6: that we purchased.
6:16
Speaker 5: The bikes, we came back the next morning for a
6:18
Speaker 5: couple hours, and by that time his assistant had come
6:22
Speaker 5: back with the plates, attached them to the bike, to
6:24
Speaker 5: the last few bits of tuning, and it was we're
6:27
Speaker 5: out the door.
6:27
Speaker 3: And that's pretty typical.
6:28
Speaker 2: We've done this now in a lot of different countries,
6:30
Speaker 2: so that's actually a pretty typical experience.
6:31
Speaker 3: We also did this in Ethiopia. That was one exception.
6:34
Speaker 2: Ethiopia was quite challenging and we had to pay a
6:37
Speaker 2: bunch of money and go through a bunch of hoops.
6:38
Speaker 2: We still got our licenses within like three days. We
6:40
Speaker 2: had to see like a license like a riding license
6:44
Speaker 2: or not eriving license. For no, we bring international driver's licenses. Yeah,
6:47
Speaker 2: let's never get asked for them. But it's so easy
6:48
Speaker 2: to get him there.
6:50
Speaker 5: Don't you feel like I feel like get asked of course,
6:54
Speaker 5: and I don't know that they're really looking at it.
6:56
Speaker 6: It's like upside down, sure I don't actually care, but
7:00
Speaker 6: they do.
7:00
Speaker 3: It look so fake. It was super fake, you know.
7:05
Speaker 2: Like I think in those situations where we get asked,
7:07
Speaker 2: you could just as easily hand over your US license
7:09
Speaker 2: and yeah, with you walk away with a worse to
7:11
Speaker 2: small fine. But but the nice thing about that paper
7:14
Speaker 2: international license is you don't care about it. So it's like, hey,
7:16
Speaker 2: if somebody tries to sit on it and shake you down,
7:18
Speaker 2: it's like I keep that.
7:19
Speaker 3: Screw it.
7:19
Speaker 1: Let's keep one of my tricks that I'll do is
7:22
Speaker 1: I'll stick just an extra copy of my US driver's
7:24
Speaker 1: license behind my phone in the case, So you just
7:27
Speaker 1: kind of peel to put a couple of twenties in there.
7:28
Speaker 3: And a US license that we've always got a back.
7:30
Speaker 5: Yeah.
7:31
Speaker 6: Yeah, just like laminated, but just like.
7:33
Speaker 3: A regular extra copy of the license.
7:35
Speaker 2: Well, because you can get a burner ID or you
7:38
Speaker 2: to say I lost mine, that's what you do. I'll
7:40
Speaker 2: say that it's valid and all of that kind of stuff.
7:42
Speaker 1: And sometimes I do lose my wallet or for a
7:45
Speaker 1: week or two, and then I find it, and then
7:46
Speaker 1: I end up with an extra one.
7:47
Speaker 2: And I do that with an expired passport, even though
7:50
Speaker 2: the state department puts a whole punch through it, they
7:52
Speaker 2: seem to still like and you know, if we're in
7:54
Speaker 2: Tireland or something, they kind of accept that. And then
7:56
Speaker 2: I'm leaving this expired passport with the guy, not my
8:00
Speaker 2: actual passport.
8:02
Speaker 5: You gotta go, you gotta I want to know how
8:04
Speaker 5: many times you lose your hidden stash of things in
8:09
Speaker 5: your bags.
8:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've definitely lost that. I lose it for you
8:12
Speaker 3: forget what you forget where you put it. You're so
8:14
Speaker 3: secretive in your location. Yes, exactly, I've done that.
8:17
Speaker 1: And then and then like three trips later, you're like, oh,
8:19
Speaker 1: that's where that two hundred bucks in an extra license.
8:23
Speaker 1: You ended up anyway, we got We ended up getting
8:25
Speaker 1: these bike. These two bikes we got. Where were the
8:27
Speaker 1: what were the bikes they were? They were called Thunderbrand
8:29
Speaker 1: Thunderbrand stop with the thunder song like the whole trip
8:35
Speaker 1: get down.
8:37
Speaker 6: In my own world.
8:39
Speaker 2: So these bikes are are these Indian and Chinese bikes?
8:42
Speaker 2: These were Chinese bikes. The Chinese manufacturers were starting to
8:45
Speaker 2: make small duel sports. So there are copies of Honda
8:47
Speaker 2: Wan twenty fives old, so the parts are interchangeable between
8:51
Speaker 2: the knockoffs and also with the original. The Indians are
8:53
Speaker 2: making dual sport bikes with the Chinese are and so
8:55
Speaker 2: we usually look for a Chinese brand, and these were
8:57
Speaker 2: made by leaf On, which is a lot of THEA.
8:58
Speaker 3: Weren't they making engines for Honda for a while. That
9:01
Speaker 3: was the story with those things.
9:03
Speaker 2: At least one of the Chinese factories is one of
9:05
Speaker 2: the really good ones, and so we were pretty happy
9:07
Speaker 2: to find out. So what they do is they ship
9:09
Speaker 2: them into different countries and then the distributor in that
9:11
Speaker 2: country slaps their own label on it, so Thunder was
9:14
Speaker 2: the country's label for the Leafan. But that's what we
9:16
Speaker 2: picked up. And they were like eighteen hundred bucks, which
9:18
Speaker 2: that's amazing. Yeah, brand new, and that's expensive. I mean
9:21
Speaker 2: you could get a jag for eight hundred brand, you know,
9:24
Speaker 2: but we wanted to dual sports to the knobby tires
9:26
Speaker 2: and right, So that's what we got in and loaded
9:28
Speaker 2: them up with some bags and just sort of headed
9:30
Speaker 2: off from the countryside.
9:31
Speaker 3: And you had no real idea what to expect. I
9:33
Speaker 3: mean we were It's pretty sighting and everywhere we.
9:35
Speaker 6: Went people would see the bike and say, oh, jungle bike.
9:43
Speaker 5: They were impressive. They held up pretty well. I put
9:45
Speaker 5: that bike through its cases for sure. It didn't fall hard.
9:49
Speaker 3: But you know, the cities are just nuts.
9:51
Speaker 2: You know you've been to African cities before, you know
9:53
Speaker 2: it is, and especially when you just landed two days ago,
9:56
Speaker 2: and it's like so disorienting and there's people.
9:57
Speaker 3: Get it in a traffic jam right away and it's
9:59
Speaker 3: like you.
10:00
Speaker 2: Can't move, there's any space between cars and motorcycles. It's
10:03
Speaker 2: packed with people and you're just kind of locked in there.
10:05
Speaker 3: Did they drive on the left or on the right.
10:07
Speaker 2: It's just a complete They drive us, yeah, yeah, yeah,
10:10
Speaker 2: maybe they drive everywhere.
10:13
Speaker 3: Anywhere. If there's an open spot, it's an open spot,
10:16
Speaker 3: they take it.
10:16
Speaker 2: And so that was a little weird and we didn't
10:17
Speaker 2: really know what would happen. We got out in the
10:19
Speaker 2: countryside and then almost right away leaving the healthscairs of
10:22
Speaker 2: the city, it became just gorgeous and peaceful.
10:25
Speaker 3: And wonderful, yeah, wonderful, and we headed out to the beach.
10:28
Speaker 5: Beach really, oh my gosh, and the surf there were
10:32
Speaker 5: professional surfers. There were actually a bunch of documentarians there
10:35
Speaker 5: at the hotel that we need came to on the
10:38
Speaker 5: coast and they were all.
10:39
Speaker 6: Staying there to film the surfing documentary.
10:42
Speaker 5: And so they had all these pro surfers there that
10:44
Speaker 5: we were eating breakfast with and then going out to
10:46
Speaker 5: the surf.
10:48
Speaker 6: It was just so cool.
10:50
Speaker 5: I really stole one of their slippers on accident. I
10:52
Speaker 5: thought they belonged to the hotel to like walk down
10:54
Speaker 5: to the beach, and she's like like, good afternoons, Like, hey,
10:59
Speaker 5: could I missippers back?
11:01
Speaker 1: I was like.
11:10
Speaker 3: Totally, I know, it's you know, you don't there's very
11:12
Speaker 3: little tourism there right now. I mean they once upon
11:15
Speaker 3: a time.
11:15
Speaker 2: These countries, because of the beautiful beaches, got a fair
11:18
Speaker 2: amount of European tourism. Sure, but then when the civil
11:20
Speaker 2: war started, that was the end of that. It hasn't
11:22
Speaker 2: really recovered since it's a lot of the people we
11:24
Speaker 2: were meeting were missionaries or NGOs that we passed to
11:27
Speaker 2: Kanye West song. Most people don't know. They don't know
11:29
Speaker 2: about Sierra Leone, right right, that's right, blood diamonds, that's
11:32
Speaker 2: another thing people says, yeah, Evola, blood diamonds, civil war,
11:35
Speaker 2: but all that is kind of history now and these
11:38
Speaker 2: countries are ready to come back, and COVID kind of
11:40
Speaker 2: through a wrench in the system. Yeah, but now they're
11:43
Speaker 2: they're ready, and they're they're trying to get their legs
11:45
Speaker 2: back under them, and the people are just so excited
11:47
Speaker 2: to have visitors, you know.
11:48
Speaker 3: And so it's especially.
11:50
Speaker 5: Sierra Leone, I would say, like even more so, like
11:53
Speaker 5: helpable excitement everywhere.
11:54
Speaker 6: You just stoked. Everybody was so stoked.
11:58
Speaker 3: Do they speak French there?
12:00
Speaker 2: There?
12:00
Speaker 3: The English speaking English, but a very unique version of English.
12:03
Speaker 2: Okay, it's in in Siri Leone it's called Creole and
12:06
Speaker 2: Colloquia and Liberia, so it's a version of English that's
12:09
Speaker 2: been you know, the Liberia.
12:10
Speaker 3: It's actually founded by America by freedom free slaves.
12:12
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and so the language that the slaves brought
12:14
Speaker 2: with them, and same as sirial leone with the British.
12:16
Speaker 2: And so the language that the slaves brought has now
12:18
Speaker 2: been you know, to continue to get distorted over the
12:21
Speaker 2: years and it's turned into it really its own language.
12:23
Speaker 3: But they can you can get enough words in common
12:25
Speaker 3: to kind of navigate. That makes sense. Yeah, yeah, that
12:27
Speaker 3: makes sense. You can usually find an English speaker.
12:29
Speaker 1: So what was what was one of the really fun
12:32
Speaker 1: encounters that you had, like right off the bat where
12:34
Speaker 1: you're just like that it totally surprised me.
12:36
Speaker 2: I got one, got I think we there's not much
12:40
Speaker 2: lodging there, you know, there's not much lodging there, and
12:43
Speaker 2: so yeah, there's no infrastructure for tourism, and so you know,
12:46
Speaker 2: we carry camping gear for exactly that reason, because without
12:48
Speaker 2: it you wouldn't really have the confidence to head out
12:50
Speaker 2: in the countryside not knowing what's out there.
12:52
Speaker 3: You know, there's no information on the.
12:53
Speaker 2: Internet, and so we headed out, and of course we
12:55
Speaker 2: wanted to get out on door roads right away and
12:57
Speaker 2: kind of get way up in the northern countryside on
12:59
Speaker 2: the on the northern border with Guinea, and so we
13:01
Speaker 2: ended up that way. And we we'll do sometimes when
13:03
Speaker 2: we're out there and there's not lodging our guest houses,
13:05
Speaker 2: we'll just pull into a little settlement, ask for ask
13:07
Speaker 2: if we can camp.
13:08
Speaker 3: There, usually with you know, hand language, and just sure like, hey,
13:10
Speaker 3: can you sleep there. It's never been turned down.
13:12
Speaker 2: They take you to the chief, You sit down the
13:14
Speaker 2: chief kind of explain as best you can what you're doing.
13:16
Speaker 3: They never say no.
13:16
Speaker 2: They always say yes, you can sleep here, And usually
13:18
Speaker 2: we give them a little money the next day.
13:20
Speaker 3: So anyway, we go to this village, ask the first person.
13:22
Speaker 3: He takes us to the chief. We have that conversation.
13:24
Speaker 2: It's really quick, and they set us up a little
13:25
Speaker 2: spot next to their tiny little mossue and we start
13:27
Speaker 2: pulling out our tent, out of our paniers and stuff
13:29
Speaker 2: like that.
13:29
Speaker 3: Man the whole settlement like came.
13:31
Speaker 2: Out and it was like this event, and they brought
13:34
Speaker 2: out plastic chairs, they brought up benches.
13:36
Speaker 3: They run Channel seven that night.
13:41
Speaker 2: I got yeah, I look back at some photos and
13:43
Speaker 2: it's like a semi circle like this, and we're on
13:47
Speaker 2: stage like this.
13:48
Speaker 3: You know, it was really funny.
13:49
Speaker 5: One of the I would say, like middle aged guys
13:52
Speaker 5: in the group, David, he came up to me at
13:54
Speaker 5: one point while I was setting up the tent and
13:56
Speaker 5: he's like, actually, we have never this before, and we
14:01
Speaker 5: are very happy you are here, and we want to dance.
14:06
Speaker 6: I was like a sleep dance in the morning.
14:11
Speaker 3: Next morning, you did dance. The next morning.
14:13
Speaker 2: The ladies came out and they were so start and
14:15
Speaker 2: they just started dancing and then they wrote ash in
14:17
Speaker 2: and it was like a yeah thing and we all
14:20
Speaker 2: got along. We're not really speaking in the same language
14:22
Speaker 2: that much, but you know how that is. It's just
14:23
Speaker 2: like this awesome vibe. Everybody's so happy. And that's one
14:26
Speaker 2: of the nice things about I think traveling in places
14:28
Speaker 2: where they don't get a lot of visitors is that
14:29
Speaker 2: you have this really nice equal exchange, Like obviously the
14:32
Speaker 2: way they live is novel to us, but also the
14:34
Speaker 2: way we are is novel to them. And so this
14:36
Speaker 2: instead of the classic tourist scenario where you're the one
14:38
Speaker 2: hundredth person through that day and nobody really you become commoditized.
14:42
Speaker 3: You're just dollar sized, right, because that's where their business is.
14:45
Speaker 2: And that's but that's a hard thing to find it
14:46
Speaker 2: and you find it in places like this that don't
14:48
Speaker 2: don't get a lot of visitors. And it's really nice
14:50
Speaker 2: because they're taking pictures of you, you're taking pictures of them.
14:52
Speaker 2: They're looking at your stuff, you're looking at their stuff.
14:54
Speaker 2: Everybody's smiling. I mean, that's just such a nice feeling.
14:57
Speaker 1: But one of the things that I wanted to ask
14:59
Speaker 1: you guys, is that's been part of your travels. It's
15:02
Speaker 1: most impressed me is the fact that you do go
15:04
Speaker 1: to these very remote places. How would you describe that transition?
15:07
Speaker 1: I mean, have you just always gone to like super remote,
15:10
Speaker 1: obscure places. Was there something that changed either in you
15:14
Speaker 1: as people or in your travels that brought you to
15:17
Speaker 1: this point now where you're looking for those unusual places
15:20
Speaker 1: on the map?
15:20
Speaker 5: I think, I mean, we'll have different answers for this.
15:23
Speaker 5: Since we've been together, that's all we've done.
15:26
Speaker 3: What's your answer?
15:27
Speaker 5: And my answer is that I think I started seeking
15:31
Speaker 5: out those places before we got together, and on my
15:35
Speaker 5: first trip to Africa, it was like way too sanitized
15:38
Speaker 5: for my taste.
15:39
Speaker 2: It was very you can isolate yourself from every reality
15:43
Speaker 2: of Africa very quickly and.
15:46
Speaker 5: Great another ham and cheese sandwich and watching elephants behind
15:49
Speaker 5: a fence, like this is just not what I want
15:51
Speaker 5: to be doing, Like I want to be in it.
15:54
Speaker 5: And so I had a couple of days at the
15:55
Speaker 5: end of that trip where I was able to go
15:57
Speaker 5: off on my own and to go exploring and to
15:59
Speaker 5: just what it's even like, you know, finding.
16:02
Speaker 6: My way and converse with people outside of that sort
16:05
Speaker 6: of structure.
16:06
Speaker 5: And then when we started dating, the first trip that
16:09
Speaker 5: we did together was Sri Lanka and it just completely.
16:12
Speaker 2: I remember when you guys did that. That was super
16:14
Speaker 2: cool to follow along, like it's such an obscure place. Yeah,
16:17
Speaker 2: you know, like people just don't really go like ma interaction.
16:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
16:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's sort of this little island off the side.
16:23
Speaker 2: And then it also had a civil war. Yeah, I
16:24
Speaker 2: kind of said it's international. I think it was you
16:26
Speaker 2: guys that kind of said it was India light in
16:29
Speaker 2: a lot of ways. Yeah, I think I remember that
16:31
Speaker 2: like years ago. Yeah I could say that.
16:33
Speaker 1: Yeah, But for you, Pete, what was what was like
16:35
Speaker 1: the impetus to like I'm going to get really far
16:37
Speaker 1: off the beat, I think truly and physically I think that.
16:41
Speaker 2: I mean, that feeling I just described is it is
16:43
Speaker 2: like a draw, you know, And I think I got
16:46
Speaker 2: into this type of travel. I was a backpacker before,
16:49
Speaker 2: and then I kind of mixed the interesting motorcycles with
16:52
Speaker 2: the backpacking and realized how liberating that was to get
16:54
Speaker 2: off the bus routes and the train routes and the
16:57
Speaker 2: hostels and the little waterfall and cave tours and things
16:59
Speaker 2: that I pitched to backpackers and go off on my own.
17:01
Speaker 2: And I started having these experiences and wanting them more,
17:04
Speaker 2: and so that's been sort of leading on this path,
17:07
Speaker 2: you know. And then the desire to kind of see
17:08
Speaker 2: the world and go to places that are unfamiliar because
17:11
Speaker 2: that feeling of vulnerability that I get there is like
17:14
Speaker 2: really appealing.
17:16
Speaker 6: You know.
17:16
Speaker 2: That's when all the good things happen. But it's a
17:19
Speaker 2: weird thing to be like, well, I have to make
17:20
Speaker 2: myself vulnerable, you know that you have to fight some instincts.
17:23
Speaker 2: I mean, even here, I haven't seen the presentations and stuff,
17:25
Speaker 2: but there's so much information about how to reduce your
17:27
Speaker 2: risk and limit your risk and do this and take
17:29
Speaker 2: this safety thing and do this all stuff.
17:31
Speaker 3: And it's like when you isolate yourself from the adventure. Yeah,
17:34
Speaker 3: but that is weird, irony.
17:36
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not saying we shouldn't study those things
17:37
Speaker 2: and we shouldn't have those skills.
17:38
Speaker 3: Of course we should.
17:39
Speaker 2: But man, when you really put yourself out there is
17:41
Speaker 2: when the magic happens. And I think that it happens
17:44
Speaker 2: in places like this and it doesn't happen anywhere else.
17:46
Speaker 2: For me personally, it doesn't happen anywhere else.
17:48
Speaker 1: And that is one of the beauties of motorcycle travel,
17:51
Speaker 1: and even more so bicycle travel.
17:53
Speaker 3: Or someone who's just walking across the country.
17:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, the fewer barriers that you have between yourself and
17:59
Speaker 1: the local culture, the more that you were able to
18:02
Speaker 1: interact with them. So I noticed that if I'm on
18:04
Speaker 1: a twelve hundred BMW, I have a different experience than
18:07
Speaker 1: if I'm on some clapped out local motorcycle. So even
18:11
Speaker 1: though they're both motorcycles, you know, I'm already a big
18:13
Speaker 1: person and you put me on a giant bike and
18:16
Speaker 1: I start to look intimidating again.
18:17
Speaker 3: For sure, where especially with the dual sports Stormtrooper.
18:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly all your stuff because they don't look
18:23
Speaker 2: like a Stormtrooper.
18:24
Speaker 5: I don't even wear We don't honestly, we don't even
18:27
Speaker 5: wear it on these trips. Like it's so hot usually
18:30
Speaker 5: because of the time of year that we're traveling, there's
18:33
Speaker 5: just no way.
18:34
Speaker 6: I'm like, I gave away.
18:35
Speaker 5: I brought my.
18:36
Speaker 6: Woodsmen pants and gave them away a week into the trip.
18:39
Speaker 6: I was like, Nope, you can't do this.
18:40
Speaker 3: It's too hot, and we have some cant pants.
18:43
Speaker 4: Come.
18:43
Speaker 2: We actually use these p All Raven pants a lot
18:45
Speaker 2: for this kind of stuff, but we wear street clothes
18:47
Speaker 2: and part of that is being more approachable and part
18:48
Speaker 2: of it's being more comfortable. And then you're also on
18:50
Speaker 2: the same bike as the locals, so you're removing these barriers,
18:52
Speaker 2: you know, totally. I had an experience in Laos. I
18:55
Speaker 2: broke my leg in Llaos a couple of years ago.
18:57
Speaker 2: I crashed the rash and now were riding up like
18:58
Speaker 2: way up north and Laos and you know the China border,
19:00
Speaker 2: and crash. It broke my leg and I had to
19:02
Speaker 2: go to Thailand and go to the hospital and ash
19:04
Speaker 2: continued and have this epic trip through Loos and then
19:06
Speaker 2: Vietnam and I went off to Thailand. This guy loaned
19:08
Speaker 2: me a jeep, went to the hospital, got to cast
19:09
Speaker 2: all that stuff, and he's like, well, while you're killing time,
19:11
Speaker 2: here's a jeep.
19:11
Speaker 3: And I went up and drove up in the mountains.
19:13
Speaker 2: And then the experience I had going straight from the
19:15
Speaker 2: motorcycle and then like four days later I went to
19:17
Speaker 2: jeep and it was like nobody talked to me, and
19:20
Speaker 2: even my broken leg was a conversation piece, but it
19:22
Speaker 2: didn't work, you know what I mean.
19:23
Speaker 3: It was like I would go into restaurants. It's totally
19:26
Speaker 3: totally different. And on the motorcycle you stop to get
19:28
Speaker 3: gas and people clustered around, where are you going? What
19:30
Speaker 3: are you doing?
19:31
Speaker 1: If you have an open face helmet on, you know,
19:34
Speaker 1: they can see your smile expression and they can see
19:38
Speaker 1: that you're dirty and wet, and you can clearly you
19:41
Speaker 1: can only bring so much with you. You need a
19:43
Speaker 1: place to stay, and it does change the dynamic much
19:47
Speaker 1: more than when you're driving a pool drive totally. And
19:50
Speaker 1: it's even worse when you're in some giant like expedition
19:52
Speaker 1: assault vehicle where you're you know, do I think, well,
19:56
Speaker 1: I think a lot of them do.
19:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. I mean it looks like the military
20:00
Speaker 3: is coming through down. Yeah, totally, so I think making
20:02
Speaker 3: yourself use a.
20:03
Speaker 1: Fun color on the car, whir all the windows down
20:06
Speaker 1: and give him a high five and smile and like,
20:09
Speaker 1: if you're in a car, try to open yourself up
20:11
Speaker 1: more to the space.
20:12
Speaker 3: For sure.
20:13
Speaker 2: Do you remember that that guy, I'm Jim Jim Rodgers
20:15
Speaker 2: with the Venture Capitalist and he took the Great Cladies
20:18
Speaker 2: two seater and put it on a g wagon Chelsea
20:21
Speaker 2: and right yellow car droving around the country, around the world.
20:24
Speaker 1: I mean it looked like a circus car, and of
20:27
Speaker 1: course it made people like a little more disarmed.
20:30
Speaker 3: What the heck and heck is that?
20:31
Speaker 5: Yeah?
20:33
Speaker 3: Great book? Yeah, he was one of the first.
20:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess we're talking about the adventure
20:38
Speaker 2: Capitalist guy. I mean one of the things that I
20:39
Speaker 2: admire about you guys, but I'm also really curious about
20:42
Speaker 2: is that you run a successful, growing business and kind
20:46
Speaker 2: of the same thing.
20:47
Speaker 3: How do you make the time?
20:48
Speaker 2: You know, like, like what is what is your thought process?
20:50
Speaker 2: Is part of just who Moscow is. I Mean we
20:53
Speaker 2: try and get out and travel, but how do you.
20:55
Speaker 2: Is it how you've structured the business with being like
20:58
Speaker 2: direct to consumer and not having the learned from somebody.
21:01
Speaker 3: There's this stigma.
21:02
Speaker 2: It's weird even in this industry now there's become a
21:05
Speaker 2: stigma against We were a travel industry and now we're
21:09
Speaker 2: like becoming a stuff industry, the travels almost being forgotten.
21:12
Speaker 2: We're not doing anything as crazy as you are. In
21:14
Speaker 2: the next few weeks. We're gonna we're going to do.
21:16
Speaker 3: The Arctic Ocean.
21:17
Speaker 2: But I mentioned that to people like some of my
21:19
Speaker 2: dealers and stuff from maxtracks, and it's like, what funny to.
21:21
Speaker 3: Dot a hold of you. Well, there's other people that
21:23
Speaker 3: can do that, you know.
21:24
Speaker 2: There's that There's like a meme on the internet that's
21:26
Speaker 2: like European vacation responder, I'm leaving for the summer for
21:29
Speaker 2: the summer, please email me like at the end of
21:31
Speaker 2: the year, and then the American vacation responder is, I'm
21:34
Speaker 2: currently undergoing.
21:36
Speaker 3: A kidney transplant.
21:37
Speaker 2: I will update you every fifteen minutes and I will
21:39
Speaker 2: be available by email.
21:41
Speaker 5: You know, so like quick not totally serious, but semi
21:46
Speaker 5: serious answer is actively tell people that you don't look
21:50
Speaker 5: at your email yeah, and don't look at your email. Yeah,
21:53
Speaker 5: and have good employees and go to go like literally
21:56
Speaker 5: put it on the calendar and just go.
21:58
Speaker 3: Yeah. Our team is have a build.
22:00
Speaker 2: I have a really good team and they've been very
22:02
Speaker 2: supportive of this, and we try to offer the same
22:04
Speaker 2: opportunities and time for them to do trips.
22:06
Speaker 3: Yeah.
22:07
Speaker 2: Well you have to get you have to have happy people, skill,
22:10
Speaker 2: be able to hire the right people, but then you
22:12
Speaker 2: have to let them go out and do what they're
22:13
Speaker 2: going to do. I've always felt that you can't be
22:16
Speaker 2: the guy at the top that's getting to have all
22:17
Speaker 2: the fun and not bring people with and not provide
22:20
Speaker 2: those same opportunities, you know. So I think that's just
22:23
Speaker 2: what has been so unique to me looking at like
22:26
Speaker 2: Moscow as a business is that you you know, like
22:30
Speaker 2: we're not like close friends or anything. What I follow
22:32
Speaker 2: you guys, and I admire what you do because from
22:34
Speaker 2: the get go you've been doing this and then I
22:37
Speaker 2: see huge trailers and I see you guys pop up
22:39
Speaker 2: here and pop up here and pop up here, and
22:42
Speaker 2: you continue to travel.
22:43
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that it shows people that it
22:46
Speaker 3: can be done.
22:46
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people are just afraid to
22:48
Speaker 2: break away from the Venturing into the unknown is almost
22:52
Speaker 2: not venturing into the wilderness or whatever. It's venturing into
22:55
Speaker 2: the unknown of what happens to my job? What happens,
22:58
Speaker 2: What happens if I don't what happens if I don't
23:00
Speaker 2: check my email? What happens if you know? What is
23:02
Speaker 2: your advice to the people out there that are whether
23:05
Speaker 2: they're working at you know, a nine to five or
23:07
Speaker 2: they're an entrepreneur, business owner, like whatever it is, like
23:10
Speaker 2: I mean, aside from you know, yeah, just don't check
23:12
Speaker 2: your email? Like what is that elevator pitch? That elevator
23:16
Speaker 2: speech to that guide or girl to go? Can I
23:18
Speaker 2: say one more thing before you is okay?
23:20
Speaker 5: One thing about our business is that the product comes first,
23:25
Speaker 5: and the only way that the product is the way
23:27
Speaker 5: it is is Andrew. Of course, we aren't designers. We
23:31
Speaker 5: ride more than anybody else. Does you spend more time
23:33
Speaker 5: on a bike? We know the product more intimately, maybe
23:36
Speaker 5: not more intimately than Andrew. But our feedback is imperative
23:40
Speaker 5: to the product line improving and growing.
23:44
Speaker 2: And it shows because you in your space, you are
23:46
Speaker 2: the innovators, and you're also the ones that are doing
23:49
Speaker 2: it and I think that that is inextricably linked. There's
23:52
Speaker 2: a lot of brands around here that have become like
23:53
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say corporate because I think that
23:55
Speaker 2: that's kind of a weird term, but they stop doing
23:58
Speaker 2: what they did that go them to where they are
24:01
Speaker 2: for sure. You know, they if they stop traveling, then
24:03
Speaker 2: they stop having the ideas to develop the products and
24:06
Speaker 2: they're not actually out there refining it, and you end
24:08
Speaker 2: up with stagnation.
24:10
Speaker 3: As the overland industry, there's a lot of stagnation. Right now.
24:13
Speaker 2: You're either innovating or you're you're innovating in your and
24:16
Speaker 2: then it's it's it's a light bull That's gone on
24:18
Speaker 2: for me is the people that are innovating are actually
24:20
Speaker 2: the only ones that are out there doing it.
24:22
Speaker 3: Which is really cool. I mean, I think you know
24:24
Speaker 3: when you if you start a business doing something you
24:26
Speaker 3: love and you.
24:27
Speaker 2: Get into it and you have a little bit of
24:28
Speaker 2: success and you get an income and you have a team,
24:32
Speaker 2: and then you get to find out how much you
24:33
Speaker 2: really love that activity. Because some people get to that
24:36
Speaker 2: situation and the last thing they want to do is
24:38
Speaker 2: the thing they thought they loved before they started.
24:40
Speaker 3: A business, Right other people.
24:42
Speaker 2: The business throws the doors wide open for all sorts
24:45
Speaker 2: of opportunities to engage with the activity, and they go
24:47
Speaker 2: full more into it.
24:48
Speaker 3: And that's what's happened to us. You know, the business
24:50
Speaker 3: has opened a lot more doors to ride and travel.
24:53
Speaker 2: We've gone through those doors, loved it, brought good feedback
24:56
Speaker 2: back to the business.
24:57
Speaker 3: That's helped the business. The business has opened more doors
25:00
Speaker 3: turn into.
25:00
Speaker 1: This wonderful feedback loop, and you've surrounded yourselves with really
25:03
Speaker 1: great people like I mean Bill Whittaker comes to your mind.
25:05
Speaker 1: I mean just really exceptional human beings that it helped
25:10
Speaker 1: you solve problems and overcome challenges.
25:12
Speaker 3: I mean, I just can't emphasize the team part of
25:14
Speaker 3: this enough.
25:14
Speaker 2: And selling direct helps a lot because our customers have
25:17
Speaker 2: been very, very understanding.
25:18
Speaker 3: You know, there's not a lot of businesses where.
25:19
Speaker 2: You're like, oh, yeah, we're in Africa riding and instead
25:21
Speaker 2: of like, oh, screw you guys, people are like, sweet,
25:24
Speaker 2: that's awesome, I'm glad if you respond to me email
25:26
Speaker 2: in five minutes, I hate you and buying the rest
25:27
Speaker 2: of the stuff.
25:28
Speaker 3: You know, it's bad ass. They're in Africa, and then
25:29
Speaker 3: they hit our customer service team and there we go.
25:31
Speaker 2: But I still think we're fortunate to be and you know,
25:34
Speaker 2: have this like nice integration of our work in our lives.
25:36
Speaker 2: I think also for other entrepreneurs that are struggling with that,
25:39
Speaker 2: you know, the there is likely to be a cost
25:42
Speaker 2: to your business for doing this, for being gone, and
25:45
Speaker 2: especially when you're small, before you build a team and
25:46
Speaker 2: to think that there won't be might be a little
25:48
Speaker 2: bit naive, you know, but you might have to get
25:51
Speaker 2: comfortable with that.
25:52
Speaker 3: In order to get comfortable making the space.
25:53
Speaker 2: You may miss a sales opportunity, or your income may
25:56
Speaker 2: be a little bit lower this year, or you may
25:58
Speaker 2: frustrate a team member because you're not avail to answer
26:00
Speaker 2: a question. But you know, some of those you can
26:01
Speaker 2: head off a little bit, especially with the team. If
26:03
Speaker 2: you put yourself, if you're the type of business manager
26:06
Speaker 2: that puts yourself as the bottleneck on every decision, then
26:08
Speaker 2: you're going to cause a lot of frustration for your team.
26:10
Speaker 2: But if you your team is capable of making decisions,
26:14
Speaker 2: then you leaving as an opportunity for them to shine.
26:17
Speaker 3: Like the Patagonia and Ivon.
26:18
Speaker 2: Schrenard talks about his NBA is management by absence, which
26:22
Speaker 2: I thought it was hilarious, you know, but I'm not
26:24
Speaker 2: sure we've gone that far, but I do think it's
26:26
Speaker 2: a neat thought.
26:27
Speaker 1: And look at Patagonia, you know, he's gone half the year. Yeah,
26:30
Speaker 1: he hired a bunch of really smart, capable people.
26:33
Speaker 5: He did.
26:33
Speaker 3: He's got a great team. And that's not where we're going.
26:35
Speaker 6: We are.
26:35
Speaker 2: We love our business. We love what we do for
26:37
Speaker 2: a limit. The travel and the writing just fits like
26:40
Speaker 2: a glove. I mean that if we don't have the
26:41
Speaker 2: good ideas never come when we're sitting at our desks.
26:44
Speaker 1: Well, and that's what I was going to mention is
26:46
Speaker 1: most of the changes, of the big changes that we've
26:49
Speaker 1: made through our businesses have come from being out in
26:52
Speaker 1: the field. And you get that moment of stillness, you
26:55
Speaker 1: kind of quiet down, some of the chout of the
26:56
Speaker 1: monkey mind slows down just a little bit, you know,
26:59
Speaker 1: your heart drops a little bit, and then like you
27:01
Speaker 1: get this spark of inspiration.
27:03
Speaker 3: And I know, Matt, for you, it's the same you
27:05
Speaker 3: need to be. You see it more than I do
27:08
Speaker 3: with me and I do.
27:09
Speaker 2: You know Scott and I have mirrored buildings. We're in
27:11
Speaker 2: the same complex. His I mean, I think even our
27:15
Speaker 2: our desks are in the same place and in the
27:17
Speaker 2: same mirrored buildings. You know, the guy that's sitting in
27:20
Speaker 2: the office designing products is going to be the guy
27:23
Speaker 2: sitting in the office designing products. You know, he's not
27:25
Speaker 2: out there. He doesn't actually understand the needs of that consumer.
27:28
Speaker 2: You're just going to look at what everybody else is
27:30
Speaker 2: doing and how can I do what everybody else is
27:32
Speaker 2: getting right? And you never want to be that person. Yeah,
27:34
Speaker 2: you know, everybody on our team rides. Everybody has a bike,
27:36
Speaker 2: we ride together, we ride separately, we do trips, and
27:39
Speaker 2: that our design team. Everybody on design team rides. I
27:41
Speaker 2: mean that so it's just like totally baked in the
27:43
Speaker 2: DNA of the business. And I think that shows in
27:45
Speaker 2: the product. And you know, the line between us and
27:47
Speaker 2: our quote unquote customers. I say that because it's just
27:50
Speaker 2: like such a blurry line. We are them, we are
27:53
Speaker 2: they are us. Sometimes they help us at events, we're
27:55
Speaker 2: out using the product ourselves, and it's like it was
27:57
Speaker 2: what It's a recurring theme that I have with with
28:00
Speaker 2: founders that I talked to is that I wasn't building
28:03
Speaker 2: this for anybody else. I was building it for me,
28:05
Speaker 2: Like when we chatted with Brad and the couple podcasts ago.
28:08
Speaker 2: That was the thing that I that I take away
28:10
Speaker 2: from that is I wasn't I wasn't like trying to
28:12
Speaker 2: find something to sell. I was just trying to find
28:14
Speaker 2: a solution on my own, Like I wanted to solve
28:16
Speaker 2: that problem for myself and hopefully some other people find
28:20
Speaker 2: it interesting and they want it, and.
28:22
Speaker 3: Oftentimes they do.
28:23
Speaker 1: When you build something genuine that solves a genuine problem
28:27
Speaker 1: for yourself, oftentimes other people want to buy it. And
28:29
Speaker 1: that's definitely what's what's cool about what you guys do
28:32
Speaker 1: is that you're not the first soft luggage that's available,
28:35
Speaker 1: but it is certainly one of the first that's been
28:37
Speaker 1: built by people who ride a lot drop bikes a lot.
28:41
Speaker 1: I need to go in and out of hostels, like
28:43
Speaker 1: that's one of the job. Like it can take ten
28:45
Speaker 1: minutes to get some of these soft bags off of
28:47
Speaker 1: a bike, where you guys, it's just a couple of
28:49
Speaker 1: clips and you slide the thing right out of it
28:50
Speaker 1: and you're gonna you know, you're into the coffee shop
28:52
Speaker 1: doing work.
28:53
Speaker 3: Or I mean it's working. It's working. So but you
28:55
Speaker 3: guys know that from having done it.
28:57
Speaker 2: That type of experience absolutely shape the downs some on
29:00
Speaker 2: the back entrepaneurs that was as like that, He's act
29:02
Speaker 2: type of experience you're describing was part of doubt to
29:05
Speaker 2: make it frame pack Yeah, you know, yeah, and.
29:06
Speaker 1: It works so much and then it still doesn't break
29:08
Speaker 1: your leg when you catch a rock or something, you know.
29:10
Speaker 2: So yeah, when I first got into motorcycles, I was like, oh,
29:13
Speaker 2: I want hard luggage because somebody carrot Steeler this, and
29:15
Speaker 2: and then I actually liked I got into motorcycle trials
29:18
Speaker 2: and I got an e racing endaras and I'm like,
29:19
Speaker 2: I don't want to break my leg, like, and then
29:22
Speaker 2: I got Mosco stuff mainly because I'm on the Scott
29:24
Speaker 2: Ready hand me down program and it has a lot
29:26
Speaker 2: of difference. It's really good, especially because we're like the
29:31
Speaker 2: same size, are we have the same tastes, So it's great.
29:35
Speaker 6: It's great like how we started with, are we running
29:37
Speaker 6: the same hand?
29:38
Speaker 2: Well, I kind of learned everything from himself.
29:41
Speaker 1: Well, and even soft luggage can be sold on the
29:44
Speaker 1: security side as well. I mean there's a there's a
29:46
Speaker 1: company called pack Safe that makes these very cool mesh
29:49
Speaker 1: metal and they're not even in a closed bag that
29:51
Speaker 1: some of them are. But I can put the bag
29:53
Speaker 1: around this meshed yeahs, and then you can lock it
29:57
Speaker 1: to the bike and it's not easy to get off.
30:00
Speaker 3: It's actually probably harder to get off than in hard
30:02
Speaker 3: wonder if it makes more.
30:03
Speaker 2: Of a target though, Like sometimes I'm always a little
30:05
Speaker 2: sketched out by like, you know, being the guy that
30:07
Speaker 2: has like those travel pants that have like theirs the locks,
30:11
Speaker 2: and your pants are actually made of kevlar and carbon
30:14
Speaker 2: and somebody's gonna.
30:15
Speaker 3: Slash your pant. Like, dude, if somebody is slashing.
30:17
Speaker 2: Your pant, like a bigger problem fifty dollars in local
30:20
Speaker 2: currency that you have in your cargo pants, it's just
30:24
Speaker 2: give them the thing and then, you know, don't end
30:26
Speaker 2: up with like a slashed femur or whatever it would be.
30:29
Speaker 5: They're not going to think you have blood diamonds and
30:31
Speaker 5: your popstarting it.
30:34
Speaker 2: We have that that security conversation all the time, and
30:36
Speaker 2: we actually have a lot of pretty cool locking system
30:38
Speaker 2: on our back country pan airs or not do commercial here,
30:40
Speaker 2: but like people can check that out. If you leave
30:42
Speaker 2: your bike unattended and give a thief the time and
30:44
Speaker 2: the space to work on it with the tools of
30:46
Speaker 2: their choice.
30:46
Speaker 3: They're going to get into anything. There's a video on YouTube.
30:49
Speaker 2: It shows a couple of guys stealing a bike on
30:51
Speaker 2: a city street and they pull up in a van.
30:53
Speaker 2: You guys jump out, lift the bikes, throwing the van,
30:55
Speaker 2: shut the door. It's under fifteen seconds they're gone with
30:57
Speaker 2: the entire bike. Yeah, forget about breaking into the open
31:00
Speaker 2: or a softpen air so like. And I think for
31:02
Speaker 2: people that really do a lot of international travel understand that.
31:04
Speaker 2: And you know, you're kind of always aware of where
31:07
Speaker 2: your bike is, is someone watching it? If you're gonna
31:08
Speaker 2: sit and have lunch, you're gonna keep an eye on it.
31:10
Speaker 2: You know, It's like it never ends up being a problem.
31:13
Speaker 2: People are always scared of the unknown, right, Like some
31:15
Speaker 2: people steer themselves to the unknown, and some people are
31:17
Speaker 2: are very afraid of it. You get comfortable in the
31:20
Speaker 2: environment and the country that that you live in the
31:22
Speaker 2: reality is that, you know, I love America and I
31:24
Speaker 2: think it's great, but America is not like Switzerland. You know,
31:27
Speaker 2: it's not Australia safe. It's not like Japan, Like we
31:31
Speaker 2: have problems here too. In Saint Louis, I mean, yeah, yeah,
31:34
Speaker 2: but but everybody always ideas going overseas, therefore I won't
31:39
Speaker 2: be safe, like, oh, there's poor people there, they're gonna want.
31:43
Speaker 3: What I have.
31:44
Speaker 2: Like that is like the mistake of that people make it,
31:49
Speaker 2: and it's like I've met some of them when you're
31:51
Speaker 2: it's almost like when you're the most vulnerable as a traveler,
31:54
Speaker 2: you meet the nicest people for sure. You know, Like
31:56
Speaker 2: I can't think of the amount of times I've been
31:58
Speaker 2: somewhere in Asia on a scooter and I don't have
32:00
Speaker 2: this is like pre like Google, fire whatever, your phone,
32:04
Speaker 2: just like work, and you know, you get a guy
32:05
Speaker 2: in the house on a scooter and takes you back
32:07
Speaker 2: to the right road and whatever, and you just like,
32:09
Speaker 2: without that, without making yourself a bit vulnerable, you're never
32:12
Speaker 2: going to have those experiences because you just build up
32:15
Speaker 2: the walls. And I think that's just one of the
32:17
Speaker 2: cool things I've seen in your travels that that I
32:20
Speaker 2: really admire, is you don't walk into these situations in
32:23
Speaker 2: these countries with any pretension, with any expectations. It seems
32:27
Speaker 2: you know, you're you actively want to be a part
32:30
Speaker 2: of their lives. Are you know, I'm trying to you
32:33
Speaker 2: know you're sleeping. You know you're asking the chief to sleep.
32:36
Speaker 2: You're not like, oh, I want to have that kind
32:38
Speaker 2: of experience. But you know, where's the fourth seasons? I mean,
32:40
Speaker 2: that's how mean Scott do, but not really sometimes maybe
32:45
Speaker 2: what are you that questions?
32:48
Speaker 5: It's very necessary every once in a while to get
32:51
Speaker 5: a nice hotel and get cleaned up.
32:53
Speaker 6: I get pretty I'm like, okay, we got to find
32:56
Speaker 6: somewhere that.
32:57
Speaker 3: I can't stand myself today. And you do get to that,
33:02
Speaker 3: you're like, literally so fucky right now.
33:07
Speaker 6: You can tell it's happening when I just start leaving
33:09
Speaker 6: my helmet on and not getting off with my bike.
33:10
Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know, we were we were talking
33:12
Speaker 2: a little while ago about the you know, the way
33:15
Speaker 2: that people get sort of size tourists in these areas
33:17
Speaker 2: like near the main attractions, and I also think that's
33:19
Speaker 2: where the worst crime happens.
33:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's opportunity, there's opportunity.
33:22
Speaker 2: We kind of have a saying that we say to
33:25
Speaker 2: each other that you know, in order to have predators,
33:26
Speaker 2: you got to have prey, and that wherever the prey
33:28
Speaker 2: is concentrated, the predators are concentrated. And you're so you're
33:31
Speaker 2: for example, you would have a lot more issues with
33:33
Speaker 2: theft and pickpocketing right outside the gate train station or
33:36
Speaker 2: train station, and you would have the countryside. There's not
33:38
Speaker 2: enough prey to support a predator. So you can feel
33:41
Speaker 2: very confident out there that you know the people that
33:43
Speaker 2: seem like they want to help you are really trying to.
33:44
Speaker 3: Help you, and you know, totally true.
33:46
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean exactly like the intuition. We have this
33:49
Speaker 5: wonderful intuition and we all have it. Some people just
33:52
Speaker 5: are able to tap into it and others are unfamiliar
33:55
Speaker 5: with that. But if you have and can tap into
33:58
Speaker 5: that intuition, just you know, follow it. If you feel
34:02
Speaker 5: like somebody is behind you, maybe you look over your shoulder,
34:06
Speaker 5: but it doesn't mean that the whole place is dangerous.
34:08
Speaker 1: Like always listen to the voices in your head rested
34:12
Speaker 1: each other too, Like if like maybe one of you
34:14
Speaker 1: or like this is the best thing ever and the
34:16
Speaker 1: other one is like this, doesn't you just trust the
34:18
Speaker 1: other person that you move on.
34:20
Speaker 3: That's a good one to go into, is traveling as
34:22
Speaker 3: a couple.
34:22
Speaker 2: I was going to say on that. Another thing we
34:24
Speaker 2: talk about sometimes is the experience of being spoked. I'm
34:26
Speaker 2: sure you guys have felt this before. You live somewhere
34:28
Speaker 2: tired after a long day and you're like, you're like, wow,
34:31
Speaker 2: this place is so sketchy, and his that guy's so worried.
34:33
Speaker 2: He must be mof like it is like weird feelings.
34:35
Speaker 2: And then you wake up the next day and have
34:36
Speaker 2: breakfast you're like, oh my god, where was It's like
34:40
Speaker 2: totally when you're tired and when you're stressed, and when
34:43
Speaker 2: you're exhausted and you know your your budget is going
34:46
Speaker 2: to go into self preservation mode.
34:48
Speaker 3: You know that's true. Yeah, that's what.
34:49
Speaker 2: That's exactly what, so you know, and it becomes the
34:51
Speaker 2: boogeyman because yeah, but then that.
34:54
Speaker 3: Goes back to having the nice hotel.
34:56
Speaker 2: Everyone's well, especially when you're like you guys are traveling
34:58
Speaker 2: and you're putting you know, yourself into the situations that
35:00
Speaker 2: are more stressful, more challenging whatever. I think people forget.
35:03
Speaker 2: It's like that the purpose of travel is enjoyment. It's
35:06
Speaker 2: not really to prove anything. Like so many people, you know,
35:09
Speaker 2: they're like I want to get the boy Scott batch.
35:10
Speaker 3: Of going here and here and here and here and here.
35:13
Speaker 2: But it's really it's about everything that you do outside
35:16
Speaker 2: of that tourist trapper or outside of that, and you
35:19
Speaker 2: have to make sure that you're in the right mindset.
35:21
Speaker 2: And if that means I'm going to do a hotel
35:23
Speaker 2: every week, it's not a competition. A lot of travelers
35:27
Speaker 2: traveling is not a competition. So you do it for yourself.
35:31
Speaker 2: So be comfortable, because then you're not going to think
35:35
Speaker 2: that you know the guys mafia and trying to steal
35:37
Speaker 2: your bike when it's not actually a reality, you know.
35:40
Speaker 1: I do think that's a good idea that we should
35:42
Speaker 1: talk about traveling as a couple of Have you guys learned,
35:44
Speaker 1: What have you guys learned about each other to travel?
35:47
Speaker 3: And how have you learned to travel well together? To
35:50
Speaker 3: start on allege, I.
35:51
Speaker 5: Mean, I'll just start by saying, we travel so awesome together,
35:54
Speaker 5: Like it's crazy.
35:55
Speaker 6: People ask us about working together, living together, traveling.
35:59
Speaker 5: Together, like how do you do all of this together?
36:02
Speaker 5: Like don't you drive each other crazy? But actually no,
36:04
Speaker 5: I mean I probably drive him crazy. Sometimes I'm like
36:07
Speaker 5: I'm the moody one. He's like calm and suny degrees
36:10
Speaker 5: all the time.
36:14
Speaker 6: Traveling.
36:15
Speaker 5: I feel like I've just watched Pete have so much
36:18
Speaker 5: like patience and courage and leadership, just.
36:23
Speaker 6: This natural leadership. I mean I would.
36:25
Speaker 5: Follow him anywhere literally, and we travel really well together.
36:31
Speaker 5: Like I Like I said, I'm the one who struggles
36:33
Speaker 5: more with like my mood or like getting into a
36:36
Speaker 5: bad headspace during travel. I'm like a very I experience
36:41
Speaker 5: things in an intense manner. The world I've always experienced
36:45
Speaker 5: in an intense manner. So when we go to these places,
36:48
Speaker 5: there are times where it's hard for me. It's really
36:50
Speaker 5: hard for me because of what I'm seeing or how
36:52
Speaker 5: I'm feeling, or that it's what it's stirring up.
36:55
Speaker 6: Yeah, Pete's like so patient. He's like, oh well, let's
36:58
Speaker 6: just stay here for two days.
36:59
Speaker 5: We'll just stay here, you can, you know, chill and
37:02
Speaker 5: like go to the beach or do whatever, you know, whatever.
37:06
Speaker 2: You you got to give yourself some grace, you know,
37:07
Speaker 2: and you have to recognize that people are different.
37:11
Speaker 1: You know.
37:11
Speaker 2: Running a business together is almost like the perfect preparation
37:15
Speaker 2: for traveling together. In a lot of ways, it can't
37:18
Speaker 2: stressful situations and you know, one's livelihood, one's enjoyment, you know,
37:23
Speaker 2: or the opposite, Like with my wife and I we
37:25
Speaker 2: traveled extensively together for a while.
37:27
Speaker 3: Then we went into business. But going into business, people
37:29
Speaker 3: are like, how do you work together?
37:31
Speaker 2: You know, like it's been like way worse because we've
37:33
Speaker 2: been through all these incredibly stressful situations.
37:37
Speaker 3: You know, where you're in, wherever.
37:38
Speaker 2: The you know, wherever the hell is stand and you know,
37:40
Speaker 2: you get bit by a dog and you have to
37:42
Speaker 2: get raby shots or stuffing together and you're like, oh, yeah,
37:45
Speaker 2: it wasn't as bad as that, Like this is just work.
37:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, I should tell myself that more often.
37:51
Speaker 1: Actually, that's a really important insight is recognizing and it
37:56
Speaker 1: sounds like Pete that you do a good job with this,
37:58
Speaker 1: is recognizing that actually needs a mo yeah, to be
38:01
Speaker 1: with those experiences.
38:03
Speaker 3: Why cut that short?
38:04
Speaker 1: Like you're feeling this intense experience, Why cut that off
38:08
Speaker 1: and just try to go a different direction.
38:10
Speaker 3: I think that's the wrong path.
38:12
Speaker 1: I think being able to sit for a minute with
38:14
Speaker 1: what you're feeling and fully fully process that download it.
38:18
Speaker 2: Maybe Yeah, I think you have to download and process
38:20
Speaker 2: those memories otherwise it just gets overwhelming. You're when you're traveling,
38:24
Speaker 2: especially with what you guys do, you're in constant stimulation
38:28
Speaker 2: and eventually you can you can get stimulation fatigue and you.
38:31
Speaker 3: Have to r well.
38:33
Speaker 6: And I stop this rule of like I don't want
38:36
Speaker 6: to be just in a place.
38:38
Speaker 4: I want to be of it.
38:39
Speaker 6: So I want to learn it. I want to like
38:40
Speaker 6: be down in the dirt. I want to know what
38:42
Speaker 6: it smells like. I want to know what everything tastes like.
38:45
Speaker 6: Like I really want to be of the place. And
38:47
Speaker 6: so me doing like actively doing that every day is taxing.
38:51
Speaker 6: You know, it's just like whoa, I just run out.
38:53
Speaker 6: I run out.
38:54
Speaker 5: I'm like an energizer bunny. And then I turn into
38:56
Speaker 5: a toddler and I like somebody changed me and put
38:58
Speaker 5: me to bed.
39:00
Speaker 6: You go to sleep right now? Right, So we've been
39:02
Speaker 6: together long enough that like this is this one.
39:05
Speaker 5: You are seven years of traveling together, Like we've kind
39:09
Speaker 5: of got it down now and never has it been hard.
39:13
Speaker 2: We're not really going anywhere, I mean, we're just traveling.
39:17
Speaker 2: So two days here, one day here, one day somewhere else.
39:19
Speaker 2: Who cares, like interesting stuff could happen right here? We
39:21
Speaker 2: don't even know that there could be boring and rainio
39:23
Speaker 2: who knows? Like it's like you're stopping for a day
39:25
Speaker 2: is no big deal, you know. But another aspect I
39:28
Speaker 2: think couples traveling that I was just thinking of while
39:30
Speaker 2: you're talking is the way other people interact with you.
39:32
Speaker 2: Is is interesting and also your own social needs. Like
39:36
Speaker 2: all of us have travel alone, so we know what
39:37
Speaker 2: that feels like. And there is a hunger that develops
39:40
Speaker 2: when you're isolated in a place far away you don't
39:42
Speaker 2: speak the language, and that hunger sort of builds up
39:45
Speaker 2: and eventually it pops and you need to interact and
39:47
Speaker 2: that and you put yourself in situations where you're going
39:50
Speaker 2: to have these interactions. And when you're traveling is a couple,
39:52
Speaker 2: you're interacting with each other all the time, so your
39:53
Speaker 2: social needs are met. You behave a little bit differently
39:55
Speaker 2: in that scenario than you would alone. But then also
39:57
Speaker 2: there's the way the world interacts with you, right, Like
40:00
Speaker 2: you drive to go out, and like do you ever
40:03
Speaker 2: feel the need to travel alone?
40:05
Speaker 3: Sure?
40:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do have that, yeah, yeah, because like you said,
40:08
Speaker 2: like sometimes when you are traveling with somebody, you're not
40:11
Speaker 2: as likely to strike up a conversation with that person
40:14
Speaker 2: at the bar or this person wherever you are, and
40:17
Speaker 2: you almost don't get the same experience sometimes because as
40:21
Speaker 2: you're saying that, you guys might be on different wavelengths
40:23
Speaker 2: or different stages of the day. One might be a
40:26
Speaker 2: little bit more fatigued than the other, and then you
40:28
Speaker 2: kind of just focus on each other's needs.
40:30
Speaker 3: I don't really travel alone a lot.
40:32
Speaker 2: When I do have that opportunity, I actually it sounds
40:35
Speaker 2: but I do actually savor it because it's kind of
40:37
Speaker 2: a similar thing. For a long time, I've always you know,
40:42
Speaker 2: it's selfish, and I think it's it's weird, but it's
40:44
Speaker 2: important to be selfish when you travel, whether that's solo
40:48
Speaker 2: or as a couple. I found like you have to
40:50
Speaker 2: be able to speak up, particularly if you're your partner.
40:53
Speaker 2: I want to stop for this because not everybody is
40:56
Speaker 2: the same person, and not everybody has the same goals.
41:00
Speaker 3: War is a lot more interested in nature.
41:02
Speaker 2: I'm a lot more interested in cars and mechanics and
41:05
Speaker 2: cities and culture. She's interested in that too. But everybody's different,
41:08
Speaker 2: and you have to communicate, I feel, I mean.
41:10
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41:14
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41:18
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42:07
Speaker 2: How do you, guys, do you actively communicate about those
42:10
Speaker 2: things when you're on the road.
42:11
Speaker 6: We try, Yeah, we tried as quickly, as quickly as possible.
42:15
Speaker 5: That is like the key, I mean, just sim really
42:18
Speaker 5: short in general, I think keeping a short account and
42:20
Speaker 5: just like doing it as quickly as possible. Like I
42:23
Speaker 5: actually had something on this trip that I like, I
42:25
Speaker 5: don't know what, I'm just my inner saboteur wanted me
42:28
Speaker 5: to spin on it for a couple of weeks before
42:31
Speaker 5: I said it out loud that it was bothering me,
42:34
Speaker 5: and it was like not even a big deal could
42:36
Speaker 5: have been taking care of immediately. He was like making videos,
42:40
Speaker 5: but he didn't have headphones.
42:41
Speaker 6: In, and so I was hearing like the same sound
42:45
Speaker 6: bite just go like a zillion times.
42:47
Speaker 5: And so for like two weeks, I just was being
42:50
Speaker 5: mildly resented, like not the kind that's going to stay forever,
42:53
Speaker 5: but just to kind of like.
42:54
Speaker 3: Oh, what the fuck the little stuff that it adds up?
42:59
Speaker 2: She said.
42:59
Speaker 6: I was like, so anyway that, yeah, we were, We
43:04
Speaker 6: definitely do.
43:06
Speaker 1: We're getting we're getting a little close on time to
43:09
Speaker 1: wrapping things up. We got a couple questions we'd like
43:11
Speaker 1: to finish with what we always like to ask if
43:14
Speaker 1: there are books that have been an inspiration to you,
43:18
Speaker 1: books that you've read that you love, and if there's
43:20
Speaker 1: not this totally and it doesn't have to have anything
43:22
Speaker 1: to do with overlanding, like.
43:23
Speaker 3: It can just be like wow, this guess it can
43:25
Speaker 3: be anything. Like my answer is doctor Seuss. I love
43:29
Speaker 3: Juveiter's travels. That was a great read.
43:31
Speaker 2: But that's almost a cliche answer. It's so epic, but
43:34
Speaker 2: it is amazing. That's a great story because he was
43:37
Speaker 2: so early and yeah, and I just love this, like
43:41
Speaker 2: really that's a good word. Yeah, Yeah, it's a lot.
43:43
Speaker 2: I've read a ton. I've always held the spot. I'm like, gosh,
43:47
Speaker 2: what's a book that's.
43:48
Speaker 3: One that's I would say The War of Art. It's
43:52
Speaker 3: a good one, good one. It's one I really read.
43:54
Speaker 5: I try to read like once a year just to
43:57
Speaker 5: kind of read thresh and seed it into my mind.
44:00
Speaker 6: Thanks so much.
44:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I do have one more. What's next?
44:03
Speaker 2: What's the next crazy place that you're gonna fly into
44:07
Speaker 2: and buy a bike?
44:08
Speaker 5: And well, that's a good question. Are we going to
44:10
Speaker 5: India in February? I mean, sorry, July or not?
44:13
Speaker 3: Still cbd? Yeah, I'd love to. Yeah, we're interested in
44:16
Speaker 3: getting out here.
44:17
Speaker 2: That's the ultimate stress test for couples, it is traveling
44:20
Speaker 2: in India. Yeah yeah, I mean specifically you kind of
44:23
Speaker 2: have had our eyes on that far northern Yeah, a
44:25
Speaker 2: loove tree line, Shaley terrain and a s glacial river,
44:28
Speaker 2: that kind of zone. So that's definitely on our radar.
44:30
Speaker 2: We're always interested in more Africa trips.
44:32
Speaker 6: You know, is on the calendar.
44:34
Speaker 3: Is coming up in October?
44:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, October, Yeah, so amazing, and we're we're but we
44:38
Speaker 2: reserve the right to let change our minds like that.
44:40
Speaker 2: I mean, we could be like this happened several times,
44:42
Speaker 2: Like we're weeks from going on trip, we go to
44:43
Speaker 2: a totally different content. Be selfish because travel is about
44:47
Speaker 2: nobody but yourself. Yeah, if you're doing travel for other people, maybe.
44:52
Speaker 3: You shouldn't really back in. Thank you both, Thank you,
44:54
Speaker 3: thanks for being on the podcast. You're truly an inspiration.
44:58
Speaker 3: We look forward to seeing what you're you're going to
45:00
Speaker 3: do next. So you guys to get excuses, well, day
45:04
Speaker 3: do it? Why can't I call with us? Let's go together? Man,
45:08
Speaker 3: it's real. I love that. Yeah, thank you guys so much. Yeah,
45:12
Speaker 3: thank you, thank you all right, guys, thanks, thank you
45:16
Speaker 3: all for listening to you.
45:18
Speaker 5: All right.
45:19
Speaker 6: Oh that was great