Latest / The Dr Louise Newson Podcast / 294 - Alcohol addiction and menopause: Rachel's story

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294 - Alcohol addiction and menopause: Rachel's story · The Dr Louise Newson Podcast

0:48
So today on the podcast, I'm very excited actually.
0:51
I've got someone who I've known for a little while now, and
0:54
unlike many of my guests I met in real life when I was on my
0:57
tour. So she is a doctor called Rachel
1:00
Birch. And she's got a very
1:03
interesting, quite emotional story that she's happy to share
1:07
about. And it does have a happy ending,
1:09
I'm just hasten to add. So welcome, Rachel.
1:11
Thanks so much for joining me today.
1:13
Oh, thank you very much. I'm really excited to be here
1:15
actually, and I think I think the work you're doing is great.
1:19
I love these podcasts. I'm a I'm an avid listener and
1:23
hopefully you know what I'm going to talk about today will
1:25
will help others. That's the aim.
1:27
Yeah, well, I mean, I set up the podcast because it's just
1:30
another forum, isn't it? And I feel it's such a privilege
1:33
actually, because my diary, as you know, is really busy.
1:36
So to have time with people understanding more, not just
1:41
from people who are experts, leaders in their field, but also
1:45
real people with real stories. Because as you know, Rachel, in
1:49
medicine, you learn a lot from the UM, from the data, from the
1:53
studies, from the start of trials, from the academic
1:56
papers. But actually the icing on the
1:58
cake, which really changes our clinical practice is, is
2:02
clinical experience listening and learning from patients and
2:06
people. And that's the most privileged
2:08
part of being a doctor, isn't it?
2:10
Is being allowed to listen to these stories?
2:12
Well, absolutely. Yeah.
2:13
I mean, I think almost everything that I learned really
2:16
has come from, from patients, from listening to people.
2:19
You know, you can learn, of course, you know, what the
2:21
book's saying, what the papers say.
2:22
But but you know how it translates to people's real
2:25
lives, It's, you know, that's, that's the important bit.
2:29
Absolutely. And I, I'm very fortunate at the
2:32
clinic that we have, we have a lot of time and the time is
2:35
something that has gone so much actually over the last 2530
2:39
years of me being a doctor is that people are so rushed and
2:43
then you don't get the bigger picture.
2:45
So. So tell me a bit about you if
2:47
you don't mind. Yeah, so, so, yeah, a little bit
2:50
about me. Wow, what to say?
2:51
I'm 53, I'm a mum. I've got two children who are
2:56
now 21 and 23. I am a doctor.
3:00
I trained as AGP and worked as AGP happily for many, many
3:03
years. Now I work for an organization
3:05
that actually supports doctors, which is equally rewarding as
3:09
being AGP actually in in different ways.
3:13
Hobby wise, I love cold water swimming, I love Pilates.
3:17
I've got two dogs that are very active and keep me out in
3:19
nature. I practice Pilates.
3:22
Yeah, photography got a lot of interest.
3:24
But one of my passions is, is is menopause as well.
3:27
And even within my workplace, I'm part of our net menopause
3:30
support network. You know, I'm, I'm passionate
3:34
about mental health and I'm passionate about, you know,
3:37
Women's Health. So yeah, they're big interests
3:39
of mine. Really, and probably like me,
3:43
you didn't have much training about menopause and certainly
3:46
menopause and mental health when you were a undergraduate.
3:49
Goodness, no, no. As an undergraduate, honestly,
3:52
the message was, you know, when women become menopausal, their
3:55
periods stop. Like, that was it.
3:56
And back in, in those days, I think we're the same age.
3:58
I qualified in 94. I think maybe you did too.
4:01
Yes, I did exactly the same. Well, yeah, we.
4:03
Probably had very similar training then, you know, as I
4:06
mean, I think they didn't know as much.
4:07
It's not that we weren't necessarily it wasn't hidden
4:10
from us, but but you know, I really think that, you know,
4:12
they, we knew about hot flushes and night sweats.
4:14
We knew that the periods could become erratic, could become
4:17
more frequent because could become less frequent, you know,
4:19
but ultimately would stop. And that was it.
4:21
You know, a woman was menopause and then they called it post
4:25
menopause, didn't they, back in the day?
4:29
Yeah, mental health as well. You know, I mean, I, I did have
4:32
quite a lot of psychiatry training as an undergraduate
4:36
and, and, and, you know, that there was really no mention of
4:38
hormones and and their relationship with mental health.
4:41
So that wasn't really an issue. I kind of really got until I
4:45
became AGP and started seeing for myself, you know, that that
4:48
actually, you know, they were very closely linked hormonal
4:52
health and mental health, you know, listening to people,
4:55
listening to patients. Yeah, and I didn't realise
4:58
either. Like, you know, I've done a lot
4:59
of psychiatry, I've done a lot of general medicine, a lot of
5:02
general practice, but I didn't put the two together.
5:06
And it's only the myriad of people we see who have actually
5:09
come from psychiatrists And they they've treated as much as they
5:12
can about their mental health, but they're still having
5:14
symptoms as well as physical symptoms of menopause or
5:17
hormonal changes. And then when we give them the
5:20
right dose and type of hormones, everything fits into place.
5:23
And then going back and reading papers, reading how these
5:26
hormones work in our brain, reading how they affect the
5:29
levels of, you know, serotonin, dopamine, our happy hormone, our
5:32
reward hormone. You know, it's all there, but we
5:35
just don't. If we don't teach it, you don't
5:37
know. So tell me a bit about your
5:40
story. We said at the beginning that
5:42
you had a interesting but not unique story.
5:45
And actually, I think it's more common than people led to
5:48
believe so. So tell me a bit about what
5:50
happened with you, Rachel, if you don't mind.
5:52
My story is not unique actually. And, and, and also, you know,
5:57
what I like to say is that, you know, when I was working as a
5:59
GP, I, I probably heard this story fairly frequently, you
6:05
know, and perhaps didn't really quite realise the implication of
6:08
the story. So, you know, I think this story
6:11
is a good one to share for, for, for women so that they, they,
6:13
they appreciate, you know, what I went through and you know, for
6:16
GPS as well, just, you know, to give another, another lived
6:20
experience. You, you know, and put that out
6:22
there. I, I, I think I was about 44.
6:26
I, I was working as a busy GPI, had teenage children.
6:30
I'm a single mum. I became really anxious and, and
6:35
it was almost overnight, you know, I mean, I'd been quite
6:39
stable, quite sane. Suddenly I just became really
6:42
anxious. I, I couldn't really put my
6:44
finger on it. I I just felt really on a, you
6:48
know, on age ilities I was getting really horribly mood
6:52
swings. They they started to appear.
6:55
They would occur over minutes and again, mood swings is
6:58
something I'd never really experienced before.
7:01
So, you know, one minute I could be absolutely fine.
7:04
The next minute I'd be snapping at the kids, you know, really
7:06
losing their plot. I wasn't really doing this at
7:09
work because I think you can maintain a kind of professional
7:12
persona, can't you? And and you, you perhaps don't,
7:15
don't give in to your, your, your personal sort of feelings
7:18
just quite so much. But at home, I think I was a
7:20
horror, you know, I was snapping at the kids.
7:23
I felt really down. The kids started calling me
7:25
Volcano Mum, you know, and that was appalling.
7:27
I couldn't believe that. Yeah, yeah.
7:30
I felt for the kids because, you know, I, I, I, I realized, you
7:34
know, I was doing it, you know, it would come from nowhere.
7:36
I I didn't really have any control.
7:39
I was forgetting things. I couldn't think, you know, I
7:41
just felt like I was losing my mind.
7:44
I felt quite down. That came later really.
7:47
I think, you know, the mood swings and the anxiety were all
7:49
there and I just felt helpless and I thought what is happening
7:53
with me? I thought, have I got dementia?
7:55
You know, I'm very. Scary, isn't it it?
7:57
Was terrifying. Actually, it was terrifying.
8:00
And I talked to friends about it and nobody at the time had
8:03
really sort of experienced anything similar.
8:05
So I just thought, gosh, that's me.
8:08
You know what? What?
8:09
What's happening? You know, yeah.
8:12
And that happens so much actually, Rachel, that people
8:16
blame themselves because if you don't understand what's
8:20
happening, you know, you've already said you're single.
8:22
Anyone knows bringing up children can be very hard.
8:25
Bringing them up on your own can be difficult too.
8:28
And then having a job, you know, it's so easy to internalise and
8:32
say, well, it's probably because I'm not coping with my
8:34
situation. And that happens so much,
8:37
doesn't it? Totally.
8:39
I beat myself up. I thought it's you.
8:41
You're not coping, you know, with, with having a job and
8:44
bringing up children. You know, this is a defect in
8:46
you. This is your problem.
8:48
None of your friends are having this, you know, totally.
8:51
I'm a perfectionist. I think many doctors are.
8:54
Anyway, it goes with the territory and and I did.
8:57
I just I had a history of mental health, you know, issues.
9:01
So I just thought, oh, it's, it's it's you not coping reach
9:05
you, you know, it's it's really sad.
9:08
So what did? You do?
9:09
How did I went to get help? Rachel, I went to my GP and,
9:13
and, you know, explained what was happening.
9:16
I, I mean, I guess I probably, you know, again, I'm not the
9:19
best person actually asking for help.
9:20
And I thought, oh, oh, it's me. It's a phase, you know, I think
9:23
I waited, I had a holiday. I waited to see if it improved
9:27
when I'd had some rest and relaxation because again, you
9:29
know, sometimes you're overworked and, and perhaps you
9:31
do just need a holiday but didn't settle.
9:33
So I went to my GP and she was lovely, you know, but she said,
9:37
oh, well, you know, you've got recurrent depression.
9:39
This is another episode. And I said, well, you know, I
9:42
don't know what it is. And she said, oh, you know, but
9:43
you've got teenage kids now. This is kind of par for the
9:46
course. You know, she she had kids of a
9:48
similar age. And, you know, I get that
9:50
teenage children are challenging, you know, mine were
9:54
challenging in wonderful ways. If you're listening kids.
9:57
But but but, you know, and, and again, you know, I, I don't
10:01
blame her. I think, you know, it was a, it
10:03
was a fair, it was a fair thought, you know, is, is it
10:05
recurrent depression? I had had three episodes of
10:08
depression in the past. One was post Natal.
10:11
You know, I think we all can realise now that that was
10:13
probably hormonal. You know, the other two were in
10:17
the sort of 10 years before, you know, this episode and and it
10:20
could well have been hormonal too.
10:21
But but, you know, I kind of, I suppose I'd been labeled and
10:24
perhaps labeled myself as having recurrent depression, you know,
10:27
almost like it's a, a vulnerability in in me.
10:30
And therefore, of course, that's what it was.
10:33
Yeah. So, you know, she increased.
10:35
Then what happened? She increased the dose of my
10:36
medication, which, you know, I was happy to try, but it didn't
10:39
help. I just felt worse because I got
10:41
sort of side effects from a higher dose.
10:43
I kind of went back to her a few times.
10:45
So, you know, I, I, I, you know, we talked, you know, she said,
10:49
well, you know, let's give it a little bit more time, You know,
10:52
do you want to change antidepressant?
10:54
I wasn't really keen on that. I went to see a psychiatrist
10:57
myself privately. I thought, look, I'll get some,
10:59
some input there. And he suggested changing the
11:02
antidepressant, you know, which he did.
11:04
So nobody really thought about hormones and actually I didn't
11:08
think about hormones. So there's no blame here
11:11
because, you know, I'm a doctor, my GP is a doctor, my psychiatry
11:16
is a doctor. I, I do think that we kind of
11:18
fell into the trap of, oh, it must be depression, you know,
11:22
and it took four years before I really just.
11:24
Suddenly thought four years. Yeah, yeah.
11:26
I mean, that's shocking, isn't it?
11:29
Suddenly, you know, I just thought, gosh, you're 48 now.
11:32
Hello. You're you're paramenopausal
11:35
age, you know, and, and I could have kicked myself, you know, I
11:39
went to my GP and she immediately said, oh gosh, yeah,
11:41
you're right. And we tried HRT.
11:44
And is that because you, you went to your so you went to your
11:47
GP saying I think it's my hormones?
11:49
Yeah, yeah, I did. And she immediately said, no, I,
11:52
I I think you're right. You know, I can see you've been
11:55
struggling on, you know, it's clear it isn't just depression.
11:59
You know, I think there's always the suspicion, isn't there?
12:01
That that that I that I could have two things going on.
12:04
And maybe I did, but the antidepressant medication and
12:08
you know, seeing a psychiatrist and trying, you know,
12:11
counselling and self help that that hadn't been enough.
12:13
So she was very open, you know, immediately, you know, she, she,
12:17
she is of a similar age to me, you know, possibly, you know,
12:21
she, she was on her own journey, you know, I don't know, but she
12:24
was very open straight away. So HRT that day, you know and
12:28
then. And then what happened?
12:30
Gradually, gradually, everything improved.
12:33
It takes a time. I had a Marina coil.
12:36
Which I think clouded the issue because I haven't had periods
12:38
for 20 years because I've been one of the lucky ones to be
12:41
amenorrheic. No periods on the Marina coil.
12:44
So since my son had been born, you know, I so, so that there
12:47
was never that clue, you know, and again, you know, maybe if my
12:50
periods had stopped, I'd have thought or got erratic, we would
12:53
have all put it together more quickly.
12:56
But you know, that clouded the issue.
12:57
So, so I started on patches, gradually increasing the dose
13:00
and it just gradually got better and better.
13:03
And, you know, I'm, I'm on the three hormones now.
13:07
Actually I'm on testosterone as well.
13:08
And, and, and I feel absolutely great.
13:11
You know, so it's clear because none of the stresses have
13:15
changed really. You know, I'm still have a
13:17
really heavy job, a really important job.
13:20
I work full time, still got children who still need me, you
13:23
know, got two dogs who need me, the crazy cat, you know, all the
13:27
same things that that possibly could have contributed to, you
13:33
know, the, the, the worry pot in my mind, you know that they're
13:36
all there. So, so, you know, the only thing
13:38
that's changed is that you know, I've, I've, I've, you know, I've
13:42
got recognition from myself, from others, and also, you know,
13:45
I'm, I'm on the treatment which is really helping, really
13:48
helping. So.
13:52
But you had few years of struggling on your own, yes?
13:57
And I have to say, during those years, it was awful.
14:00
And I couldn't do anything to get relief.
14:03
And so the only thing that gave me relief was red wine.
14:08
You know, at the end of the day when everyone went to bed, I
14:12
would have a glass of red wine. You know, I self medicated, you
14:15
know, it's clear now to see that I couldn't get rid of that
14:20
horrible feeling of snapping. I also had towards the the
14:26
latter 2 years, I I started getting quite horrific suicidal
14:29
thoughts and urges as well. And, and and they came from
14:33
nowhere. And again, you know, everything
14:36
was getting worse rather than better.
14:38
My confidence was going. I started not believing in
14:41
myself. I actually changed jobs, you
14:43
know, I that that's when I stopped being AGPII wondered
14:46
that, you know, maybe it was my job, you know, which was a
14:51
really drastic step, but one I felt that I had no choice to
14:54
make. Yeah.
14:55
You know, I started drinking a glass of wine a night.
14:57
Then it became 2 glasses of nine of wine a night before I knew
15:01
it, you know, actually it was nearly a bottle a night, you
15:04
know, which is a hell of a lot of units if you add that up.
15:07
You know, I was on 60 or 70 units plus a week, which is
15:10
which is so damaging. I would wait till the kids went
15:13
to bed, usually. I mean, I have to confess,
15:15
sometimes I didn't, and I would have a couple of glasses and
15:19
that didn't help my memory. That didn't help my night
15:22
sweats, that didn't help the itch, that didn't help my
15:26
buoyancy of my mood. I felt more depressed.
15:28
You know, the suicidal thoughts got worse.
15:30
But the only thing that would just make everything stop was
15:33
just obliterating it really, and just numbing everything.
15:37
And I think that's quite common. I've been reading a lot.
15:40
I've listened to some podcasts, you know, of yours on the
15:42
subject. And I think, I think it's a trap
15:45
that we can fall into. Because very common, yeah, Yeah.
15:49
And it's very common. And I hadn't realised how common
15:52
it was until, like you say, before you said at the
15:54
beginning, you learn from patients and of course part of
15:57
the history taking, you ask people about alcohol and and
16:01
smoking and lifestyle and you can always tell when people are
16:05
lying as well. And you know, the, the beauty of
16:08
our consultations is they're confidential so that people then
16:11
open up in a way that they often haven't opened up even to
16:14
themselves before. And so I do have a sort of,
16:17
maybe I'm a bit witched like, but I do, we have a way of
16:19
getting things out of people. And when they do tell you and,
16:23
and it's not just often 1 bottle, it could be two or
16:26
three. But it's not just the bottles
16:28
of, of alcohol. People have told me about their
16:32
drug addictions as well, or their gambling addictions,
16:35
Anything that's, you know, escaping from reality actually.
16:40
And they know it's not healthy behaviour, but they don't know
16:44
how to get out of it because they feel so awful.
16:48
And actually, it might be a short term escapism, but
16:52
actually the reality is still there that they're feeling
16:54
dreadful. And when I first started to hear
16:57
these stories, I just thought, goodness, this is a bigger
16:59
problem. This is a far bigger problem
17:01
than perhaps people are realising.
17:03
And last year, as you probably know, we did a questionnaire
17:06
about addiction and there were free text answers as well.
17:10
And you know, I, I still feel very sad when I read those free
17:14
texts about people that have turned to Class A drugs in their
17:19
late 40s because they needed to escape from what was going on
17:23
and they knew it wasn't right. Now these are highly addictive
17:27
illegal drugs that women are turning to.
17:30
And I'm not saying there's it's very common, but it's still
17:34
there. But actually what is very
17:36
common, like you say, is alcohol because it's so readily
17:38
available, it's socially acceptable.
17:41
People laugh about their wine o'clock, you know, the children
17:43
not going on. And that's OK as a glass, but
17:48
not when you're using it as a tool.
17:50
And as many of you know, I don't drink alcohol at all.
17:53
And it's not because I've ever had a drink problem.
17:55
It was because really of my migraines.
17:58
And if you, but I, I know that if I had a drink, I'd get to
18:01
have a migraine. So it's easy for me not to
18:03
drink. But so many times when I've been
18:06
under stressful or difficult situations, either at home or at
18:10
work, I can see why people go, oh, just have a glass of wine,
18:13
but I can't. So I meditate or I do yoga and
18:15
that's good and probably a lot healthier, but it's so easy to
18:21
do it. And it's, I think there's many
18:25
reasons. One of them is because people
18:28
are feeling low and flat, they want to escape.
18:31
But the other thing is the addiction side because like we
18:35
said at the beginning, these hormones affect dopamine levels.
18:39
Now dopamine is our reward. You know that pleasure that you
18:42
get opening the curtains, the sun's shining, oh lovely day.
18:46
Now if you don't have dopamine and often when your estradel
18:50
progesterone, testosterone are low, then you have a negative
18:53
feedback. So you have low dopamine as
18:55
well. So when you open the curtain and
18:57
it's sunny and you're like, what the hell, it's another day.
19:00
I just don't want to. I'm just existing, not living.
19:03
Of course, then you're going to need that bit more to actually
19:06
just feel a bit of pleasure from something as well.
19:09
Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, yeah, the pleasure would
19:12
be short lived, you know, with that first couple of sips.
19:15
But but you know, it was there and and I think it probably did
19:18
give me a temporary dopamine hit.
19:21
And the more I learn about, you know, chemicals, you know, brain
19:23
chemicals, the more I realise that that that's what happened.
19:26
I mean, I, I like, and COVID happened to me then while I was,
19:32
you know, and, and, and obviously that that caused so
19:34
many challenges to people. I suspect that COVID and
19:36
menopause and drinking was probably the perfect, you know,
19:39
bond, wasn't it, it, it got, got a bit worse, you know, but three
19:44
years and 2-3 years and two months and a couple of days ago,
19:48
I, I just actually saw the light and thought, right, you've got
19:51
to stop because I realized I was addicted.
19:53
So, you know, I think some people don't become addicted,
19:56
but many people do. And I did become addicted.
20:00
I became addicted to alcohol and I realized that I was at the
20:03
stage where I couldn't get through an evening without it.
20:06
And that's terrifying. There's a lot of shame, A lot of
20:10
shame. You know, I, I thought I should
20:13
have known better because again, I'm a doctor, you know,
20:15
forgetting that I'm actually a human and a woman, you know, and
20:18
that's OK. There was a lot of shame and I
20:20
had to accept it and I had to. Admit it.
20:25
And again, that's a really difficult step sometimes, but,
20:29
but admit it I did and then I hit it with everything I had.
20:33
I told my GPI, went to Alcoholics Anonymous.
20:35
I got lots of books and downloads.
20:37
I, I had started practising mindfulness by then and
20:41
meditation. So I did lots of that.
20:44
I just did everything that I could.
20:46
I got an app on my phone which was really helpful.
20:48
That tells me how many days I've been sober.
20:51
All of this like I just used every tool because I didn't want
20:54
to fail. I wanted it to be the the only
20:57
attempt and it was really hard. I have to say I did not know how
21:01
hard it would be I I did have quite a lot of physical
21:05
symptoms. I had crazy psychological
21:08
symptoms where I just felt I really need to drink kind of
21:11
peaked around day 18/19/20. It was, it was, it was
21:15
unexpected, but Alcoholics Anonymous got me through that.
21:18
I mean, I'm really grateful to all my all my colleagues and
21:21
friends and pals there because, you know, they were really
21:24
helpful and I managed to do it first time, you know, but but
21:28
I'm mindful that, you know, it's, it's day by day in the
21:32
early weeks and months, I replaced my alcohol drinking
21:36
with eating chocolate. OK, So I couldn't have a drink
21:40
and I just needed something to get through those evenings.
21:42
So I would eat chocolate and that definitely helped my
21:45
dopamine levels. But gradually I weaned myself
21:48
off that and now, you know, hope for the levels are a little bit
21:52
better. I'm going out in nature loads
21:54
more and cold water swimming even more than ever.
21:57
Mindfulness I think really does help with the whole dopamine
22:02
thing as well. Some practices of self love,
22:04
self compassion, you know, just giving myself love, giving
22:07
myself a hug. It all helps actually.
22:10
I think that's really important and I think it's something, this
22:14
is a generalisation of course. I think it's something generally
22:16
people, especially women don't do.
22:18
And you know, the last few months have been quite difficult
22:21
for me for various reasons. And I'm trying to teach myself
22:24
some more self love. And it sounds really cheesy when
22:27
people talk about self love because I don't look at myself
22:31
and think I'm the most amazing person or the most beautiful or
22:34
the most lucky or the most whatever or talented.
22:37
But actually deep down there's something inside everybody where
22:41
there's a bit of something that needs loving and whether it's
22:45
related to past trauma, whether it's related to a poor
22:49
relationship, whether it's related to just how you're
22:52
feeling. But it's that deep down, self
22:54
love. It's not that, oh, I've got a
22:56
new dress on, don't I look lovely?
22:58
That's too superficial for me. It's more something within,
23:01
isn't it? That I think even more when
23:04
you're on your own, even more when you've got lots of
23:07
stresses. It's actually two things really,
23:10
taking time for yourself but also acknowledging that a bit of
23:14
you somewhere needs a bit of a cuddle and warmth and you're not
23:18
going to get that by drinking or talking or offloading to someone
23:22
else. You've got to do it from within
23:24
and that's quite a hard thing to do, I think.
23:27
It's really hard and it's taken me a while.
23:31
I have been practising mindfulness.
23:32
I'm studying it as well and I've been practising it for about 2
23:35
1/2 years. And I, I can say actually on
23:40
camera now that I do have self love, I can say I love myself,
23:43
which, you know, honestly, two years ago, there's no way I
23:45
would have dared to say that. But you know, and I do give
23:48
myself hugs and I do just gratitude journals and, and put
23:52
myself in the journal. You know, I think it, it does
23:55
make a difference. It it does sound cheesy but but
23:58
but it does help if you keep going and you get used to doing
24:02
it. We are great, absolutely.
24:04
Right and one of. Women are great.
24:06
Yeah, we are. And we shouldn't be.
24:08
We shouldn't be stripped down and we shouldn't be gas lit and
24:11
we shouldn't be accepting something that isn't right.
24:14
But we have. It's society, it's history.
24:16
But we shouldn't. But one of the things I noticed
24:19
when I was on the tour and you came to watch, you were with a
24:22
group of other people, Yes. And there was a lot of all you
24:26
give so much positive energy. And I wonder whether it's come.
24:30
I haven't didn't meet you before all of this, but I wonder
24:32
whether it's come because you are in a better place
24:36
physically, mentally, spiritually that you are able to
24:39
give others even more. You've probably always been that
24:42
sort of person, but you're just, there's something that's coming
24:46
out of you that I think is incredible.
24:48
And he could feel other people picking up on that, too.
24:51
That's a lovely thing to say. Thank you.
24:54
I think you're right. I think you're right.
24:56
That's a really lovely thing to say.
24:58
And I believe you're right. I, I do think that if you
25:02
exhibit positivity, you know, it, it there, there is research
25:05
that has been done. I mean, we have these things
25:07
called mirror neurons in our, in our brains and, and you tend to
25:11
mirror other people's sort of behaviour and, and, and, and
25:15
affect, you know, mood. And so I think that has an
25:17
effect. But also I think, you know,
25:18
greater than that, I think, you know, I think we are all
25:21
interconnected. You know, we are all human.
25:23
We do have common. Humanity here and I think.
25:25
Positivity has a ripple effect. You know my my Pilates class.
25:30
I will shout out to them, Bev, Diane, Kirstie and Viv.
25:33
Hello. They are brilliant and they have
25:35
helped me as much as I have helped them because we are a
25:39
small group that meet every week and we talk about the menopause,
25:42
We talk about our mood, we talk about how we're feeling.
25:45
I think we all enjoy each other up.
25:48
So I think once one person is positive, the next person, you
25:52
know, perhaps becomes more positive.
25:53
And again, that ripple effect happens.
25:55
So, you know, I do think being positive about the menopause as
25:59
much as we can and being positive about our mental health
26:01
and just thinking, look, let's do our best.
26:03
Let's let's not shy away from talking about it.
26:06
Let's let's let's you know, not embrace it because you know but,
26:12
but go. Yeah, but it's so it, it's so
26:14
important because I think so often people have is this
26:18
conversation's been normalised about menopause.
26:20
Oh, you will feel like that, You will feel like that or you won't
26:22
feel like that. And we're all different.
26:24
But also there's this big conversation is you either take
26:27
HRT and you feel wonderful or you don't take HRT and you've
26:30
got to try all these other things.
26:32
But actually, in my mind, whether you take HRT or not,
26:35
you've still got to be thinking about ways to improve your
26:38
mental and physical health. And that's so important.
26:41
You can't just use HRT as something that's going to turn
26:44
you into this amazing person because you're still going to
26:47
have challenges in your day, whether it's work or home or
26:51
you're still going to be making food choices.
26:53
You know, you're still going to be making choices about doing
26:56
exercise. You know, this morning I woke up
26:58
and I'm really tired, but I still got up to do 20 minutes of
27:02
yoga before I got in the shower. And I feel better for it.
27:05
You know, it's only 20 minutes, but actually it would have been
27:07
really easy to have just set my alarm 20 minutes later.
27:10
But you know, I feel better. I ended in a headstand.
27:13
I did some meditation and I'm like, I can, I can bite this
27:15
day, but that's not HRT. HRT is good but it's not
27:20
everything. But on the flip side, there's so
27:23
many women who aren't able to access HRT who like you were
27:28
thinking, this is just my lot and this is nothing to do with
27:33
my hormones. And this is also, and it's sad
27:36
because you were blaming yourself, but actually you saw
27:39
different doctors. So how we do this joined up
27:42
process where we can empower women, but also we can educate
27:46
healthcare professionals from every specialty.
27:49
Just to think, could any of Rachel's problems being related
27:52
to her hormones? And even if it was only 5 or
27:55
10%, treating your hormones might have been enough to stop
27:59
you becoming and now you know, you're having problems with
28:02
alcohol or just having a better time with your children or just
28:06
not giving up or changing your job.
28:07
There's lots of little things and I think as doctors we need
28:11
to tease out every single bit. We're not just blaming one part,
28:15
but if we don't have the whole 360 approach, like you not
28:19
having the hormones was definitely a bit of the puzzle
28:22
that was missing. You know, it was, and I think
28:25
once I got the hormones, I, I, I was able to see the bigger
28:28
picture. You know, I think, I think my
28:31
mental health was, was, I guess so impacted by this.
28:34
By the time, you know, I became 48 and I, I had my light bulb
28:38
moment. Thank goodness for the light
28:40
bulb moment. But you know, I, I had started
28:42
to make all those wrong choices with diet and with exercise as
28:45
well, you know, you know, I think, I think, I think HRT just
28:51
just just improved my, my mental health to the, to, I mean, it
28:55
improved it hugely, but in the early days it improved it enough
28:57
for me to actually then tackle the alcohol.
29:00
I mean, because I am an alcoholic.
29:01
It's, you know, it's, it's that, that's what I am.
29:03
I'm addicted to alcohol. And again, I have no shame in
29:06
saying that, you know, probably a couple of years ago I might
29:08
have done, but but you know, it happens, it happens.
29:12
It's just something that happens.
29:13
We, we, we humans, you know, what can I say?
29:17
You know, the, the, it's, it's, there's no shame.
29:20
I, I, I really want to break down the stigma as you do.
29:23
I really want to get conversations opened.
29:26
I think it's really great work that you're doing.
29:28
And, and back at you with the positivity.
29:30
I mean, your positivity has a massive ripple effect too.
29:34
And I think, you know, talking about this has a massive ripple
29:36
effect. And we, we, we have to keep
29:39
spreading the word because people, you know, women and, and
29:43
doctors can be educated. I mean, me, my GP, the
29:46
psychiatrist back in the day, not, none of us thought
29:49
menopause. I would like to think that if
29:51
the same person had the same symptoms as I have now, you
29:55
know, nine years on, I would really like to think that maybe
29:58
it would be different. But I guess it's only from
30:01
talking it through more and more that maybe we can get it out
30:04
there to every doctor and every woman.
30:07
Yeah. Oh well, it's been amazing
30:10
Rachel and I'm, I feel very honoured and privileged that
30:12
you've shared your story as well, because I know it's going
30:15
to help people, either people directly who've been listening
30:18
or people indirectly who will know, you know, people will know
30:21
others that they might be able to reach out to and just start
30:23
that conversation and try and help.
30:25
So I'm very grateful. So before I end, I always ask
30:29
for three take home tips and you're no exception.
30:31
You're not escaping from it. So three things I think that you
30:36
would either say to your former self or to others that were
30:41
maybe just realizing that they're on that slippery slope
30:45
and addicted to it doesn't matter what, to anything.
30:48
What would you say to those people?
30:49
Yeah, OK. The first message, I think in
30:52
many ways is the most important message.
30:55
And I would say listen to your body and trust your instinct
30:58
because you know yourself best. You know, you live with yourself
31:04
24/7. Your mind and your body are one.
31:08
So your body, when it's telling you things is as valuable as
31:11
your mind. And just look at the whole
31:14
picture. Listen to yourself notice.
31:16
And, and you know, don't, don't, don't put them down to anything.
31:20
Just think, look, my body's trying to talk to me and I'll
31:22
listen and, and, and what's it trying to say?
31:24
And that leads on to #2 because then I think #2 is be your own
31:28
advocate because you're the one that knows your body the most
31:31
best. It can be particularly
31:33
challenging for, for, for people like me who had pre-existing
31:37
history of, of mental illness, I had a history of, of episodes of
31:40
depression. But if you think this is
31:42
different, if your body is telling you this is different,
31:45
tell your GP and don't be afraid, as I say, to advocate
31:48
for yourself and say, look, I know you think this is
31:51
depression, but you know, could this be the perimenopause?
31:53
I've done a bit of reading, I've listened, I've I've, I've, I've
31:56
watched podcast. My body is telling me that that
31:58
something is different because for me, my mood swings and the
32:02
suicidal thoughts and all the crazy sort of up and down this,
32:05
that that was new, you know, so new things, I think listen.
32:10
And the third thing it relates to alcohol addiction, really,
32:12
prevention is better than cure. OK?
32:15
I wouldn't really want anyone to get to where I was because it
32:18
was pretty horrible and a little bit lonely until I accepted it.
32:21
So be alert to the fact. Notice if your drinking is
32:25
creeping up and tell people. You know, tell people.
32:29
Don't suffer alone like I did, you know, because there's help
32:32
out there if you want to prevent problems.
32:34
As well as you know if you find you are addicted and you are
32:38
drinking too much, there's help there at that stage too.
32:40
Hit it with everything. Alcohol, anomic, anonymous, you
32:43
know, friends, GPS, family, you know.
32:47
Tell as many people as you can to get the help.
32:49
Don't suffer alone because you know there's loads of help out
32:53
there and you know this, this can all be better.
32:59
So that's what. I'm really that's what I.
33:01
Tell myself. But she didn't listen.
33:06
Well, hopefully others will. So thank you so much for your
33:08
time. I really appreciate it.
33:09
Rachel, you can. Find out more about Newson
33:13
Health Group by visiting www.newsonhealth.co.uk and you
33:20
can download the free Balance app on the App Store or Google
33:23
Play.