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Cheesesteaks to Cheeseheads - Building Winners with Matt Klentak · Rosters to Rings Podcast

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Rosters, to rings everyone. Ryan McDonough joined
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: as always by Thad Levine Fad. We have a pack
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: show today. On Monday, it was what they call the
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: sports Equinox, where every sport was playing, of the major
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: four in the US, we'll get into that. We're going
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: to have on Matt Klintech, a Brewers executive. We know
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Milwaukee had the best record in Major League Baseball, made
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: it all the way to the National League Championship Series.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: We'll talk to Matt later in the show. And there's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: a lot going on. We have the World Series, we
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: have the NBA season now with a week or more
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: in the books. In addition the betting scandal in the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: NBA that we're going to talk about here in a minute.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: In college football, it's gone crazy fad with the firings,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: the buyouts. We've heard a lot about that. With Brian
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Kelly at LSU, the latest coach to get canned, they're
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: discussing a buyout. Still, that's a little bit unusual to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: meet that. I don't know how you fire somebody and
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: then discuss a buyout. I think if I were Brian Kelly,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: I said, let's discuss that first But anyway, so that
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: where I want to start the show as we record
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: this midday on Wednesday, is with the World Series. It's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: been a terrific series so far, with a lot of
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: twists and turns, and the neat thing for me thatad
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: is I think every time I feel like I know
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: how it's going to go going forward, it veers and
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: there's a turn. We had the epic eighteen inning Game
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: three in La the other night. The Dodgers won that
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: one in extra innings, and then one of the longest
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: games in World Series history, and then on Tuesday night
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: that a comeback by the Blue Jay is a huge
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: home run by Vlad Guerrero off a show, Hey Otani,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: So that we sit here tied to too, I hate
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: to rub it in, but your World Series prediction was wrong.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: You have the Dodgers and five that is off the table.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I'm still doubling down on my Dodgers and six bet,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: but that's looking a little more iffy as we sit
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: here too, too, with Toronto seemingly having a lot of momentum.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: And I think sports fans are loving the fact that
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: it's two two and it's been extremely competitive. I think
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: some of the themes, Ryan, as I see it is
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: the stars are really shining, you know, outside of Mookie Betts,
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: who's got off to a little bit of a slow
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: start in the postseason. But for the performance of Otani,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: we'd be talking about how great Vladimir Guerrero, Freddie Freeman,
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Lejandro Kirk have played for their teams. But Otani has
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: just been otherworldly. Five extra base hits through four games,
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: seven walks through four games. His WRC plus is three
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: twenty seven. And just to give the fans and understanding
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: what that means, it's normalized to one hundred, so one
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: hundred is average. So he's only hitting two hundred and
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: twenty seven percent better, Ryan than the actual average hitter,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: which actually seems about accurate. Like that seems incredible to say,
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: except for if you watch the games that seems about
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: on par and you brought up the eighteen inning game.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: You know, I look at this postseason and it's been
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: so remarkable. There was the fifteen inning game in the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Alds between the Tigers and Mariners, and usually the team
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: that wins that you get a little bit of artificial push,
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: but but you're just so exhausted from that. The Mariners
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: had to then fly across country twenty three hundred miles
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: ago play Toronto in two days. They somehow win the
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: first two games. After that, well, Toronto plays the eighteen
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: in game six hours and thirty nine minutes, nineteen pitchers used.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: It was an absolutely epic war of attrition. They end
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: up losing that game, and it seems like the narrative
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: would have clearly been, Okay, this is where they just break.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: They didn't just bend. There they broke, except they come
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: back against one of the best pitchers of all time,
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: showhy Otani, and they go and put up six runs
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: and win six to two. Last night. Incredible game, Brian,
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: How long did you last watching that game?
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I lasted till the Guerrero home run, which which was
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: relatively early. I think the game before on Monday night.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: The eighteen inn game wore me out, but it was
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: interesting that I want to get your take on Otani.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: It seemed like the eighteen inning game may have had
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: an impact on his pitching. We know he's been dominant
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: throughout the regular season. I think he led major League
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: Baseball and strikeouts for nine innings regular year. And then
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: it was interesting to hear John Smoltz say on the
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: broadcast on Tuesday night, he worried a little bit about
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Otani's legs. We know he was cramping in that epic
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: Game three marathon on Monday, Fad. Do you think that
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: impacted his performance a little bit? We know how he's
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: been great. He was good again in Game four, but
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: not quite good enough, and Guerrero and the Blue Jays
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: broke through against the guy who had been virtually unhittable
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: so far in the playoffs.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean literally, both teams emptied their bullpens in
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Game three. They had to to get through the eighteen innings,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So I think there was a thought going into Game
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: four whichever starter could stand on the mound longer was
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: going to give their team such a decided advantage because
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: no fresh arm was coming out of the bullpen behind
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: those guys. But keep in mind, as you said, Otani
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: not only played eighteen innings, but he was on base
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: nine times, so he was getting no reprieve. We saw
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: it on the field. At one point he was on
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: first base, single to left field, probably a play he
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: may have tried to go to third on. He pulls
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: up into second base and it looks like he's stretching
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: out his calf or his hamstring because he was starting
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: to experience some challenges in his lower half, and he
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: still had five innings left to play at that point,
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: so I think it had to have impacted him. I'm
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: sure it impacted others as well. One other guy I
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: want to call out in that Game four performance subtly,
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Chris Bassett, came out of the bullpen in both Games
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: three and Games four. This is a guy who has
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: started his entire career, he had never pitched in back
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: to back days in his entire career. He did it
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: in the World Series. He did it effectively. He gets
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: a hold in last night's game and bridges them to
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: the end of the game, which was vital because the
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: rest of the Toronto Blue Jays bullpen was on fumes.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I think, what's up in the World Series now, Ryan,
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: is it's been reduced to a game of three. It's
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: a series of three. The Dodgers still have to feel
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: good right now. They've got Yamamoto and Snow on the mound,
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: arguably the guys who have been the two best starting
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: pitchers this entire postseason. But what Toronto has up their
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: sleeve is by winning last night, they secured the ability
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: to go home. They did this in the ALCS. They
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: were down oh two to Seattle, they were down three
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: to two to Seattle, but they got to go home.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: They won the last two games there. It's one of
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: the best home field advantages in the game. So it's
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Yamamoto and Snow, which is a huge advantage to the Dodgers.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: They still have Otani, but Toronto has home field advantage.
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: And then to me, the last wildcard ryan is George
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Springer's health. He's the one Starry didn't mention up front.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: He's had an exceptional postseason, came out of Game three
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: with what looked like a mild oblique issue. Can he
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: get back in the lineup? Can he still help the
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: team win because he's such an important part of that
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: team for.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Them, no question about it. That and the home field
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: advantage is really you've discussed Toronto, how passionate their fans are,
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: and that's what we know. We're recording this show between
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: games four and five. The series is tied at two
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: games apiece. Game five's on Wednesday night in Los Angeles,
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: but regardless who wins, the series is headed back to Toronto.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: For a Game six and potentially a Game seven as well,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: and we'll know by the weekend who the World Series
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: champion is. I think, as a fan of the sport
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: that I'm just glad that it's not a foregone conclusion yet.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: You know, I think the way the Dodgers looked coming
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: into the World Series, you mentioned they only lost one
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: game in the entire playoffs prior to the World Series,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: it looked at points, maybe early in the series, that
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: it may go that way, especially through Games two and three,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: that this is a resilient Blue Jays team. That and
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: one thing I think that's important for our listeners to
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: not forget there's a reason the Blue Jays have home
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: court advantage. They had a slightly better record in the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: regular season than did the La Dodgers. That's why they
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: have games in six and seven at home. So it's riveting.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I think it'll be great for the sport, and I
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: think and hope that the ratings will reflect this because
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: this has been fantastic baseball to watch from a fans perspective, and.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I think the Dodgers played this season to get to
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: the postseason, so they weren't worried about what their seed was,
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: but now they may be thinking twice about that. They
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: played a series against Toronto in the middle of the year,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: they end up one win behind Toronto. That gives Toronto
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: home field advantage. They get to play home games six
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: and seven. That may prove to be the deciding factor.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: One thing shifting our topics a little bit here. One
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: thing that we were talking about off air, which just
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: absolutely blew my mind was some of the new facts
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: that you brought to bear on this whole betting scandal.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: Could you give us an update. Where are we with
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: Damon Jones, Rosier Chauncey Billups and some of the new
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: information that you've uncovered.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: So that as we recorded last week's episode of Rosters
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: to Rings, a lot of this was breaking right as
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: we came on air. Hopefully that was reflected in the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: pod when our listeners tuned in. We have more information
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: now obviously than we did a week ago, and a
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: couple of things happened over the past week in the
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: NBA that are significant and worth mentioning. The first was
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that there was a memo that the NBA sent out
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: to all teams players. You know that the NBA needs
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: to address the dire risks soda associated with gambling, as
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: do the teams. You know that there'll be more meetings,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: there'll be people brought in to speak to the teams.
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: They will, unfortunately use the real time examples of John
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: tay Porter, who was banned for life from basketball for
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: gambling on his performance when you're getting inside information to
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: sports betters when he played for the Toronto Raptors, and
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: then Tear Rozier. The Rozier situation in particular, that does
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: not look great for Terry. Obviously, everybody is innocent until
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: proven guilty, but some of the recent reporting that that
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: is that in twenty twenty three, the same year that
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Rosier was accused of leaving a game early, either faking
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: or playing up an injury to make sure the unders
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: on his prompt bets hit, he faced an eight million
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: dollar tax line from the IRS, you know, and so
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: you know that one of the things that I think
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: people look at as far as well, why would athletes
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: do that? These guys make tens, if not one hundred
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: million plus guaranteed career earnings. Well, everybody you know knows
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: people who make bad financial decisions or get in trouble
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: with the wrong people regardless I think of your income level.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: That's not excusing the behavior, but that's just life. Some
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: people make better decisions with their moneies than others. So
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the report according to a federal indictment that was unsealed
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: last week, that Rozier is accused of providing non public
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: information about his plans to leave a game in March
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: of twenty twenty three. Keep in mind that that's when
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: he played for the Charlotte Hornets to a friend de
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Niro Lester, who then sold that information to betters for
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: about one hundred thousand dollars. Rosier left the game after
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: nine minutes, you know, and then cited a foot injury
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Thad and then reportedly Rosier paid Laster to travel to
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Philadelphia to pick up the money their profits, and then
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: they Laster drove back to Rosier's home and they counted
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: the money together. That that is pretty damning. That's obviously
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: not our reporting. That's a you know, the FBI, it's
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: an unsealed indictment. But that's the kind of thing that,
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: if prove inaccurate, would unfortunately get Terry Razier ban from
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: life and would be a major warning to teams, players
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: and anybody associated with the NBA, that these are the risks,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: and you know, if that actually happened, that the NBA
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: has a pretty significant problem.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Ryan, you mentioned it. You know, some people don't manage
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: their money. Well, the other thing I just would say
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: is because we're around professional athletes, they're exceptional at things
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: they do, but they're flawed Otherwise. This is an addiction.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: There's a reason there's a gambler's anonymous hotline and those
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: sorts of things like this is an addiction. It's no
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: different than drugged and alcohol. Some people who start this process,
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: it's a slippery slope. They can't get themselves out of
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: it right, just out of curiosity. You referenced in a
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: previous episode that Terry Rogier signing one hundred million dollar
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: deal has a total career earnings potentially a run one
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: hundred and sixty nine million. Where was he in his
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: earning process when this indictment was levied against him and
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the dates of which you speak, was he already had
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: he already signed this deal? Because that also makes this
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: so much more remarkable and just speaks the fact that
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: he was so out of control.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he was under contract that I think it's a
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: four year, about one hundred million dollar contract. He's currently
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: in the last year of that deal, making about twenty
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: six million dollars this season as a member of the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: Miami Heat. And this is where it's interesting that you
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: gets sticky sometimes between on the one side, the NBA
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: and the other side the Players Association, who is you know,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: their job is to protect the players and the players' rights.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: And the PA's point now is that Rosier should continue
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to get paid until a verdict is reached. Right innocent
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: until proven guilty. You know, this would be played out
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: in actual court, it's not the court of public opinion.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: So that's a little bit sticky from a team side,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: but you're absolutely right that. And one of the reasons
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: this is so scary, I think for guys like us
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: who have been around sports our entire adult lives is
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: it's not necessarily the individual who needs to get in
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: some trouble. It's a friend, it's a family member. Somebody
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: say hey man, this isn't a big ask, but can
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: you help me out and just do this? You know,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: there's some bad guys coming after me, you know. And
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: I'm making up a hypothetical scenario here, but I'm in
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of trouble. You need to come do this,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: and I'll never ask you for anything again. I just
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: need to get this taken care of. It's easy, I
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: think for somebody to say, Okay, well, this person's done
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: a lot for me. I can't really say no to them.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want them to get injured or killed or
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: have something horrible happen, So why don't I just do it?
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I think one of the things of many fad that
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I comes out of this, But the main thing I
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: hope comes out of this is awareness from the athletes
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: across sports that look, the sports betting companies in the
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: leagues have very sophisticated data tracking technology. So if a
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: disproportionate amount of money is bet on a Jhonte Porter under,
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: or on a Terry Rozier under, or on any player,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you know that there are volumes of it right There
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: are standard deviations to use a term from the stock market.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: They look at and say, well, wait a minute, why
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: in the world would if X percentage is usually wagered
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: on it, why would two, three, five, ten times be
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: wagered on it? That sets off alarms and flags automatically.
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: It's not a human tracking it it's a machine that
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: does that kind of tracking, and then I think can
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: hope players become more aware of that that it is
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: going to get flagged. You're not going to be able
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to get away with this and have people, you know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: not notice that that. I want to shift back to
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Major League Baseball now, because you know, we've talked a
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: little bit about this to Anaheim situation, in particular with
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Kurt Suzuki's unusual contract, but there have been three managerial
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: hiring stat that have been official in the last week.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Anaheim did hire Kurtzuzuki, Baltimore hired Craig Olbernaz, and the
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: San Francisco Giants hired Tony Botello. Any insight into all
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: or any of those hires that you can get for
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: our listeners who may not be as familiar with these
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: managerial candidates.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and Ryan One just thought of on the NBA
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: thing as we part ways there is I think we
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: should do a whole show on the entourages some of
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: these guys are trying to service and the influence they
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: have over them. And certainly in baseball basketball, you see
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: guys coming from really impoverished backgrounds, and so they're juxtaposing
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: the integrity of the game against trying to enhance the
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: livelihood of some of the people who they care about,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: family members, friends, and otherwise could be a whole whole
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: episode for us. But getting back to baseball, Kurt Suzuki
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: was indeed hired by the Anheim Angels. Just a few
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: things about Kirk, just to share with the listeners. Sixteen
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: year veteran, and he's a guy who is a testament
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: to how great a human being he was. Without getting
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: into too many d tales, I'll just tell you how
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: the other people in the game thought of him. I
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: was playing against him with the Texas Rangers. I was
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: working for the Rangers at the time. One of our
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: pitchers hit him, and one of our other players said,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: if I had my shoes on, I would have rushed
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: them mount and punched our pitcher for hitting him. I
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: like Kurt Suzuki so much, and I thought that would
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: have been an epic thing for fans to see. You
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: you'd never see that in the game, your own player
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: getting suspended for hitting his own teammate. But he is,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: I think, just widely regarded throughout the game as one
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: of the best human beings. Now the realities he has
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: to deal with. As we've talked about in past episodes,
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: he is the sixth manager in eight seasons for the
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Anaheim Angels, who have had one playoff appearance in Mike
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: Trout's fifteen year incredibly illustrious career. That's staggering. And as
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: you just mentioned, Ryan, he signed a one year deal.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: To me, this is the equivalent of playing like Texas Holden,
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: where you're not allowed to have any face cards. So
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I hope he's able to have a small straight or
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: something at the front end here because it's going to
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: be a tough hand to play. But I think everyone's
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: rooting for Kurt Suzuki. The other thing this was, which
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: is a note when you look at Suzuki and Albertas.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Albernas was a minor league catcher, Suzuki was a major
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: league catchers. Somewhere between about twenty five to thirty three
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: percent of all major league managers at one time tend
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: to be former catchers. I don't know if there's the
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: equivalent of that for you guys, Ryan in the NBA
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: that point guards tend to be better head coaches or
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: something like that, but it's pretty remarkable when you look
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: at it. Albernas had a career as a minor league catcher.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: He kind of has the trifecta of interesting elements on
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: his resume. He worked for the Tampa Bay Rays, one
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: of the most highly regarded organizations in terms of player development, scouting,
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: and major league operations. He then goes and works on
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Gabe Kapler's staff at a time, and we'll talk to
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Matt Clintech about this. He hired Gabe Kpler in Philadelphia.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Craig worked with Craig Gabe Kapler when he was in
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: San Francisco, but one of the most progressive managers at
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the time. And then he also worked on the Cleveland
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: Indian staff for Manager of the Year Steven Vote. So
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I think he's walking into this job as what is
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: regarded as like having one of the best resumes to
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: manageer to bandage. Let's see how it actually pans out.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: And then, in Tony Vittello's case, we talked about in
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the past episodes, great communicator, tremendous energy. I think the
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: focus turns down to how does he build out the
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: rest of his staff. There are people throughout the game
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: who have tremendous relationships with Tony major league coaches a
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: lot of guys with exceptional experience. Who does he add
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: to his staff? How does that look like at the end.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: How does he prepare himself to ease the transition from
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: the college game to the professional side, something we've never
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: seen done before. Right before we transition to a great
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: conversation with Matt clintec, give us a little update. What's
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: gone on in the first week of the NBA season.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: What has jumped out to you?
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I think a few things that The main
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: takeaway for me is Victor Wimbenyama's dominance. The Spurs are
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: undefeated four and oh if you haven't watched Victor, he's
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: the rare player I would say is worth the price
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of admission if he's in your area and you can
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: afford to go see and play, go see in play?
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: Is it seven five or six or seven or whatever?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: He is. He's doing things that have never been done before.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Another interesting storyline that in Philadelphia VJ. Edgecombe's off to
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: a fantastic start, the number three pick in the draft,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the rookie out of Baylor, the seventy six ers, surprisingly
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: or undefeated. Paul George has not played Joel Embiide has
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: not played that well their backcourt, though Tyrese Max He
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: was leading the league in scoring in Edgecombe and then
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: okay See continues to dominate five and zero SGA as
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: the best player in the league. Chet Holmgren's making a leap.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: So those are the main positive storylines that maybe next
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: week we'll get into some of the negative storylines. I
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: want to give these teams a chance to dig out
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: of the whole. I don't want to overreact to week one,
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: but Indie, Dallas, New Orleans aren't off to great starts.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: But I know we got a buddy of years coming
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: on right, you know, shortly in Matt Clintech.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know when we were in Paris, my
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: son wanted to get a Victor Wembaiana jersey and at
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: seven six is at Ryan even the extra small was
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: like a full outfit for him. He put a belt
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: around the middle and it was it was like he
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: was wearing a full suit outfit. So yes, please stay
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: with us through the break on the other side, where
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: you're going to be joined by Milwaukee Brewers executive longtime
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: friend Matt Clintech. Welcome back to rosterster Rings. As always,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I'm accompanied by Ryan McDonough. I am Thad Levine. We
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: are thrilled to bring on our next guest, Matt Clintech.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: And let me give you a little background on Matt.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: Mat grew up in Midfield, Massachusetts, graduated from Dartmouth College,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: where he serves as a cagey shortstop on the varsity
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: baseball team. After an internship with the Colorado Rockies in
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: two thousand and three, Matt spent the next four years
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: working in the Commissioner's office. In two thousand and eight,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Matt joined the Baltimore Oriols as their director of baseball Operations.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: In twenty eleven, Matt was hired as the assistant GM
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: of the Anaheim Angels, and in twenty fifteen, Matt became
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: the general manager of the phildel Few Phillies, a post
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: that he held through twenty twenty. In twenty twenty two,
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Matt assumed a leadership role with the Milwaukee Brewers, and
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: he continues to serve as a senior advisor to the
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Brewers President of baseball Operations, Matt Arnold. When I asked
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: longtime friend, former boss and current and a renowned talent evaluator,
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Jerry Depoto for a scouting report on Matt, Jerry said
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: he's taller than most, but shorter than some. He also
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: said great guy, smart, thoughtful, curious. He understands baseball markets
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: as well as anybody I've ever worked with. He's also
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: the member of a management team who is always willing
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: to question the leader, the process, or the logic if
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: he disagrees with it. Matt, Welcome to Rosters to Rings.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: That was quite an introduction, Dad, but thank you. Other
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: than the Cagy part, I enjoyed that.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you ever renew your vows with Lorna, I'm
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: happy to come and speak Matt. One of our traditions
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: on Rosters to Rings is we ask guests to share
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: their sports origin story. How did you fall in love
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: with sports when you were a.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Kid who probably, like a lot of kids, to be
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: honest with you, you know, I grew up in Massachusetts,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: which which you mentioned in the opener, and really as
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: long as I can, as far back as I can remember,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: I just enjoyed watching sports, playing sports, going outside with
• 21:26
  Speaker 3: the neighbors with my brother, with my dad, reading about it,
• 21:31
  Speaker 3: watching you know, the nineteen eighty six Red Sox World
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: Series video over and over and over until I memorized it.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: And I mean it really started at a young age
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: just like that. So I suspect that is true of
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of kids. I think, you know what, you know,
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I was able to play baseball, as you mentioned, through
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: through college, which which was awesome for me. I would
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: have loved to have played it a little beyond that,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: but that wasn't in the cards for me. But you know,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: I think like one of the things that was maybe
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: is different for me than a lot of kids growing
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: up loving sports was that I was able to transition
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: into making it my career, as you guys did as
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: well as probably a lot of our listeners have too.
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: But that's probably the thing that's been so satisfying for me,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: is just that I was able to turn something that
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: I loved at age four into what I now do
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: for a limit.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Matt, you work with Andy mcphiel, I believe three different
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: times in your career, at the Commissioner's Office with the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Baltimore Orioles and also in Philadelphia with the Phillies. It's
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: really impressive not only Andy's career but what his family
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: has done in Major League Baseball as well. How did
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: you guys get connected and take us inside kind of
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: the impact that Andy has had on you and always
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: helped you in your career.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: Well, maybe the last part first. Andy's just has been
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: an incredible mentor for me throughout and you mentioned a
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: few of the different stops along the way where that's
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: been the case. But and you mentioned his family history
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: as well. I was fortunate enough when I worked in
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: the Commissioner's office just very early in my career to
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: have been part of a collective bargaining negotiation in two
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: thousand and six. And the way that works, obviously there's
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: a team of lawyers and executives of the Commissioner's office
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: that are interfacing with the union on a regular basis.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: But back in those days, and I think this still
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: exists today, the league will often ask executives or owners
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: from teams to come and serve as part of their
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: bargaining committee. And that year in two thousand and six,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: Andy was one of two Larry Dolan being the other
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: from Cleveland, that were part of the bargaining committee. So
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: I was just really a young analyst in the background
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: more than anything during that process. But it turned out
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: that Andy and I Andy with his baseball operations background
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: and I ended up teaming up on a number of
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: mini projects within the bargaining process and just got to
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: know each other there. That was while Andy was working
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: with the Sago Cuttins. He was the president and CEO
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: of the Cubs at the time. And then fast forward,
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: I forget about a year or so later, maybe even
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: a little longer than that, Andy left the Cubs and
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: joined the Orioles to head up their baseball operations department,
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: and that first off season when he was looking to
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: build out his staff there he called and and that's
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: how he ended up in Baltimore. So you know, good fortune.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: I suppose the Commission's Office, by the way, it was
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: a was an excellent platform for meeting people just in general.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Obviously with Andy it led to a job, but just
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: in terms of building a rolodex and getting to know
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: people at all levels of the industry was pretty was
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: pretty incredible. I worked with Andy for four years in Baltimore,
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: which I think you mentioned, and then he left, and
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: also he left to go his first retirement, and then
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: and I left to go join the Angels and Jerry Depoto,
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: which that kind of teased earlier as well. And then
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: when Andy came out of his first retirement to assume
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: the president duties in in Philadelphia, he asked for me
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: to interview for that GM job. So that was the
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: you know, I guess the third time we interacted, obviously,
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: but yeah, awesome guy. I think his resume speaks for
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: itself in terms of the two World Championships with Minnesota
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: early in his career and taking the Cubs to within
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: five outs of the World Series, and then you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: obviously the Phillies rebuild, which I don't know if it's
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: culminated yet, but in twenty twenty two they reached the
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: World Series. And he's done a ton but he's always
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: done it with humility. He's an excellent teacher. He lets
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: people do their jobs. It's just been a great influence
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: on me and and I'm sure any number of people.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Throughout his years in the.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: Industry, Matt, you touched on so many vital things, and
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: not the least of which is how fortunate we've all
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: been to have mentors who, you know, we don't necessarily
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: get to choose these interactions, but when you make the
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: most of these interactions, it can lead to such great
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: aspects of our career, your progress and development, you know,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: just for the listeners to hear. And I'm going to
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: miss a few here, Matt, I think. But like his grandfather,
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Andy's grandfather Larry, his father Lee or both in the
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame. And then his two sons, Read and
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: Drew are ones working for the Commissioner's office. One is
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: heading up the farm system for the Minnesota Twins. I
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: believe he also had a brother who maybe was a
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: long time in venerated scout. This is an incredible legacy
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: of a family, Matt. One thing I want to just
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: touch on. You mentioned the four year old self getting
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: a chance to dream about playing or working in baseball.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: Now you're doing it well.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: One of the.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Pasts that we try to express to our listeners, the
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: pass we all took. Well, you took a path through
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the Commissioner's office and it wasn't just any McPhail that
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: you crossed paths with while you were there, and people
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: who probably influenced you. Can you share with the listener
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: what it's like to work in a league office and
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: some of the other people who you know, maybe influenced
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: your career development while you were there.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, happy to and that You'll actually remember some of
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: this because when I went to the Commissioner's office, it
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: was right on the heels of having done my first
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: baseball internship with Colorado when you were there, and I
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: had a decision to make at the end of the
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: internship with the Rockies, basically to become a part time
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: scout for the Rockies in the Northeast or, which was
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: where I was from, so like that would have been
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: convenient from a you know, being able to live with
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: my parents' perspective. So either doing that or going to
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: work in the Commissioner's office, which was also not a
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: not full time initially, and I didn't exactly know what
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: to do about that. I consulted with you and a
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: number of people about, you know, the various paths and
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: what that might lead to in my career, and ended
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: up ended up in New York. It's a very now,
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: having the benefit of having worked for a club for
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: a number of years, I have some you know, I
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: can contract compare contrastees a little differently, I would say,
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: to have the opportunity to work in the Commissioner's office
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: in that department, specifically in the it was labor relations,
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: which was a relatively small department in terms of personnel
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: at the time. To have had the ability to do
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: that in my early to mid twenties and to meet
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: the people that I met, which I mentioned earlier, and
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: just had exposure to the way that thirty teams operate,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe not in the well definitely not in
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: the weeds the way that the team people were, but
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: visibility nonetheless into the different styles that different for an
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: offices utilized to run their businesses was probably one of
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: the best learning experiences. You know, I could have imagined.
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: I didn't know that going in. You know, it's easy
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: to say that now, but I didn't. I did not
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: know that when I was making that decision, or really
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: even as I was going through it, you know, I
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: was when I worked there. Just some names that will
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: likely be familiar to, you know, to some of your
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: baseball listeners. You know, Rob Manfred was was heading up
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: labor relations at that point. Frank Kunley was working for Frank.
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: It was my direct supervisor, John Abamandi, who went on
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: to you know, do a lot of things in baseball
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: and in the NBA and across the industry. He was
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: working in the department at the time there were Peter
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: wood Fork worked there before, he's made a career in baseball.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: You know, David Stearn's worked thereafter he's heading up the
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: Mets now. There were a lot of people passing through
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: that department over the years that you know, went on
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: to have some pretty impressive careers within baseball. But going
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: through it at the time, I never really looked at
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: it that way. It was a hard It was a
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: hard job, definitely a very New York corporate style job,
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: and learning a lot about sort of the macro level
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: baseball industry, but not necessarily the day to day how
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: do we win tonight? You know, how do we manage
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: our roster, how do we prepare for a draft. It
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: was just different, But I do think in the end
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: I would at a macro level, was pretty well prepared
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: to go off and work for a club after that,
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: but still had to learn a ton of the micro
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: level baseball operations, how to operate a team, that operate
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: a baseball operations department from the team level.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Mat another hard job. As general manager of the Philadelphia Phillies,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: you had that position from twenty fifteen through twenty twenty.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Jeff Van Gundy a longtime NBA head coach with the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Knicks and the Rockets, and now an assistant coach with
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: the ALA Clippers. A lot of our listeners, I'm sure
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: you guys remember him being ABC's lead analyst on the
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: finals and playoff games for almost two decades. He had
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: a great line that I want to get your take on.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Somebody asked him about what it's like coaching in the NBA.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: He said, well, you have Boston, you have New York,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: and you have Philadelphia, and everything else's club met that's
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the typical. It's just his point is that in the
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: Northeast and those three markets in particular, it's a different
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: level of scrutiny. It's a different level of intensity. Now
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: that you've had five years or so to reflect on
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: your time in Philly stands out and what are some
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: of the unique challenges maybe with the level of interest.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: As I think the three of us know that passion
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: cuts both ways, that the fans and media have, but
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: the level of intensity in the Northeast and some of
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: these markets, and I work for the Celtics for over
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: a decade, it's it's a little bit different. And I
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: think guys like us, Matt, you and I who grew
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: up there, you know, are kind of used to it.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean it's not very intense when you're
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: sitting in one of those seats.
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Ryan, a couple of words, the word passion and
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: use the word intensity. I think those are the right words.
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: And I know you speak from experience, haven't lived you
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: know your version of this yourself, So I think that's
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: absolutely right to me. To me, it's all good because
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: it is. It's a challenge, and you know that the
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: bar is going to be high. It really compels you
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: to do your best, give your best all the time.
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: You can never you can never take it, you can
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: never rest. That also makes it exhausting as you as
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: you could probably appreciate. But I think it's just there's
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: a high standard in an environment like that. My time
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: in Philly, you know, I actually kind of looked at it.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: There was almost like there were three phases of it,
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: even within a relatively short five year period when I
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: when I took over that position in the fall of fifteen,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: the Phillies had, you know, a few years prior, kind
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: of completed their run. They had a great run which
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: which resulted in going to the World series twice, winning once,
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: going to the playoffs five years in a row, with
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: a ton of core veteran, you know, incredible players on
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: the roster, and then the club tried to hang on
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: went to that Corey did hang on to that corps
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: for a number of years beyond that, and just you know,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: aging curves just didn't cooperate, basically. And on top of that,
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: there was you know, a perception and probably some dose
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: of reality there that the organization was was not adjusting
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: to kind of modern baseball landscape like some other teams were,
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: And that was sort of the backdrop against which I
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: was hired. It was like a chance to bring in
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: somebody fresh from the outside, to turn the page and
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: move the organization in a new direction. So for the
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: first couple of years, first two years specifically that I
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: was there, we were very much in rebuilding mode. We
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: had the first pick in the draft my first year,
• 33:22
  Speaker 3: which meant we had the worst record the prior year.
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: We had to build out an R and D department
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: from scratch. We had to just allow time to help
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: us turn over the player pool, the roster, as you
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: guys well know, player development. As much as you'd like
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: to snap your fingers and it's not the way that
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: typically works. And I think that was a challenge for
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: a lot of people. You talked about, you know, the
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: passion and the intensity of Philadelphia. This is a city
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: that is not used to losing. But when you're building
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: something for the long haul, you know, sometimes you have
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: to make decisions that are more longer term focused that
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: shorter term focused. And I would say, net Net, I
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: think the the Philadelphia fan base ownership was actually incredibly
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: patient with that. I think that it was we we
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: were trying anime failure you mentioned earlier, and myself we
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: tried to be very clear and very upfront with with
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: with the fans about what our intentions were. And you know,
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: the rebuilds are hard to live through, but but it
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: it went roughly according to plan, and we were spending
• 34:27
  Speaker 3: a lot of time building up the infrastructure. In my
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: third year, we hired Gabe Kapler, who is he now
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: works for the Marlins, but he's had he's had the
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: run as the Phillies manager and later the Giants manager.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: That was that was kind of the beginning of what
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: I would call phase two of at least my Phillies tenure.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: And we made enormous strides during the two years that
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: Cap was our manager in terms of, you know, we
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: restaffed a lot of things at the major league level.
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: We incorporated data much more so into our major league operation.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: Our young players started to reach the big leagues and
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: started to prove under his watch, and we really changed,
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: you know, there was there was a changing of the
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: landscape from rebuild to know this next phase. And then
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: at the end of nineteen we had just acquired Bryce Harper,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: we had just traded for JT. Real Muto. It was
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: kind of time to click into gear and win, win now.
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: And that was when twenty twenty happened. And twenty twenty,
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: for everybody who probably remembers, was a was a It
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: was a tough season in Major League Baseball. We only
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: played sixty games or a lot of unique COVID related challenges,
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: and we missed the playoffs by a game, and that
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: unfortunately marked the end for me as GM in Philadelphia.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: It didn't mark the end of sort of the development
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: of the organization and the progression of the organization, right,
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: it wasn't. It was two years later they were in
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: the World Series and they haven't missed the playoffs since so,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: you know, a lot of the groundwork that we laid
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: I think contributed to the success that the Phillies had
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: been having recently. But unfortunately for me, as often the
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: case in sports, you know, my timing didn't perfectly align
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: with the timing of the wins and losses.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Matt. From a person who's never worked for a team
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: in the Northeast, but who has attended a lot of
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: games as a visiting executive, my account of the Phillips
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: fans you said intensity and passionate. I would refer to
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: them as raving lunatics who were very willing to give
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: critical feedback to not only the visiting team but also
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: the home team. They were and they used very colorful language.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: If memory serves, It's one of the most rabid fan
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: bases I've ever been around. But I think you said it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: You know, as executive, you want to work for teams
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: that have fans who care at that level. There's nothing
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: worse than passive fans who just expect bad things to happen,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: and therefore you don't have that home field advantage when
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: you go to Philadelphia. They're loud, they're participating, and they
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: are undoubtedly loving their team. I want to dive a
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: little bit more into the hire of Gabe Kapler. We've
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: had conversations with aj Hinch on the show about when
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: he was hired and how that was kind of revolutionary
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: for a guy who had no managerial experience. Well, Gabe
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: Kapler was also considered a very progressive hire by you.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: Can you talk us through what went into that process
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: and how did you arrive at Gabe as the right
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: candidate at that time for the Philadelphia Phillies.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: You've been through managerial search processes in your career, and Ryan,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I'm guessing you have, as well as head coaching processes
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: in the NBA. Those are long, labor intensive processes, and
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: as much time as we spend interviewing candidates, we probably
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: spend twice as much time vetting them in the background
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: and soliciting opinions and getting as much information as you
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: can possibly get to hopefully make the right decision. I
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: mentioned this earlier about the different phases of my Phillies
• 37:53
  Speaker 3: tenure there, and it was very clear at the end
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: of seventeen that it was time for us to turn
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: the page. I should use this an opportunity to give
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: a shout out to Pete mccannon, who was the manager
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: of our club in sixteen and seventeen and his coaching staff.
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: Those guys did exactly what we asked them to do,
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: which was to provide a level of stability, experienced leadership,
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: and credibility to an organization in a in a you know,
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: in the Philadelphia market going through a rebuild. That is
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: not an easy job. And those guys did that with class,
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: with professionalism. They did exactly what we had asked them
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: to do. And you know, they probably don't get enough
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: credit for that, to be honest with you, but I
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: think they did a terrific job. Having said that, by
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: the time we reached the end of the seventeen season
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: I mentioned this earlier, we had a whole wave of,
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: you know, young players that had either just touched the
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: big leagues for the first time at the end of
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: seventeen or we're about to in eighteen, and that was
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: when the decision was made that we need to we
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: need to make sure we are supporting these players a
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: different way, you know. And so we went into that
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: managerial search process not necessarily with knowing exactly which candidate
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: or candidates we wanted to hire. But with a pretty
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: good idea of the you know, the type of environment
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: that we wanted to expose our young players to so
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: that they could continue to learn, grow, develop, and ultimately
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: become impact players that could help the franchise. We interviewed
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: a pretty long list of candidates, ended up with a
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: few finalists, and Cap really stood out from the beginning.
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: Kap was not on my initial radar. Andrew Friedman, who
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: I've known for a long time, I guess, I'm sure
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: you have tooth that he was the one that initially
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: called me to to suggest, Hey, just talk to this guy.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: You know, I think the Dodgers had considered him for
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: their own job. They went to Dave Roberts. But he's
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: like this, so it's worth your time to spend, you know,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: to have a phone call with Cap. And I did,
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: and and Cap just blew away his interviews. He was,
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: you know, in my judgment, he was exactly what we
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: needed at the time. And looking back, I can still
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: tell you he was exactly what we needed at the time.
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: It didn't go smoothly at all. There were you know,
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: a number of you know, examples where he was heavily
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: scrutinized for a variety of things and up to it,
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: including you know, the end of his tenure where you
• 40:22
  Speaker 3: know he was he was kind of blamed for two
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: straight collapses in September. You know, I wanted to keep
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: him ownership at a at a different take on that.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: It was a very actually a very collaborative process to
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: work through. It was not combative at all, but in
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: the end, you know, it was it was decided that
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: we needed a new direction, and I, you know, and
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: we did. We move forward with that. But a lot
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: of the people that were brought into the organization, you know,
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Kapa and I worked together with our with our group
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: to build out that coaching staff and and the layer
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: that supports the coaching staff. A lot of those people
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: are still there in a variety of different positions, and
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: I I can say safely say I don't think the
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: Phillies would be as well positioned at CAP not put
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: his fingerprints on the organization over those two years. I
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: think he was really impactful there. Man.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: Let's get into your current club now, the Milwaukee Brewers.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, you joined the front office with
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: the Brewers, where you serve as a senior advisor to
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: the President of Baseball Apps Matt Arnold and I want
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: to look at this kind of from a thirty thousand
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: foot view or the organization, because Dad and I actually
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: referenced the Brewers in a recent episode as a model
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: of we talk about player development, and you talked about
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: how important that was in your time in Philly, especially
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: toward the early and middle part of your tenure, as
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: you try to build something that was sustainable, and certainly
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: you got that after a great start there. But we
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: also look at the Brewers as a good example of
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: off field development as well. With David Stearns leaving the
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: organization to go run the New York Mets, Craig Council
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: leaving the club to go manage the Chicago Cubs, all
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: you guys did this year was have the best record
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball. So as you worked there for
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: a few years, now, what stands out to you and
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: how do you think that the Brewers do so well?
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Is either you know, bringing in the right people externally
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: or promoting from within to keep a good thing going
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: and sustained despite not having a lofty payroll, sustain the
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: success that those guys certainly contributed to at a high level,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: but that has continued even after their departures from the organization.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that topic, that question has surfaced a lot
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: this year in part because of what you mentioned that
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: you know, Brews one ninety seven games and you know
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: a lot of people wondering how do you how do
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: you do it? How are the Brewers doing this? You know,
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I've had an inside look at this for a few
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: years now. I would say it's two things. Number one. Well,
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: first of all, there is no as much as I
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: wish there was, there is no secret sauce, secret formula,
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: the aha moment that that's not that's not what it is.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: I think the two key things are as an organization,
• 42:59
  Speaker 3: this starts with ownership and permeates all the way through
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: the organization. We understand who we are, we understand what
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: our market is all about, and we lean into that.
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: And as much as is written and talked about the
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: economic disparities in the game, and you know, certainly on
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: display in the LCS this year with the with the
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: Dodgers payroll versus ours, you know, that's never an excuse
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: for anybody in our building. It's always okay, that's the
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: way it is. What are we going to do about it.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: How are we going to overcome that, How can we
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: behave differently because of our situation to leverage that as
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: best we can in a way that maybe another team can't.
• 43:38
  Speaker 3: And like one example that I am happy to share
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: here is, you know, when you're the GM in Philadelphia
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: and you have a good player approaching the end of
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: the contract, the discussion really at any level is not
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: about how do we trade that player and use that
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: player to access more good players for the future. The
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: player they question is how do we keep that player?
• 44:04
  Speaker 3: This player is good and we're trying to win, how
• 44:06
  Speaker 3: do we retain that player? So that's just an example.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: In Milwaukee, we would love to keep those players for
• 44:14
  Speaker 3: their whole careers, you know, and thinking of Josh Hater
• 44:16
  Speaker 3: and Corbin Burgs is probably the most prominent examples from
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: the last few years, but that's not always going to
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: be realistic. Rather than complain about that, how do we
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: leverage that for the betterment of the organization. So that's
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Number one is I think that mindset really permeates the organization.
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: The second thing is, and this I give a lot
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: of credit to a lot of people, I think it
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: also starts at the top. But you know, David and
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Matt since they since they joined and for the twenty
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: sixteen season, I've never worked anywhere that has collaboration like
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: this organization has. And I think that starts with your
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: leaders and then over time it's been you know, about
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: ten years now since they since that group started, you know,
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: it's now it's it's seeped into really every every part
• 44:58
  Speaker 3: of the organization. And you know, player development is collaborative
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: with scouting, R and D is supporting everything that we do.
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: You know, the major league team is connecting with the
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: minor league side. Everything we do that there's no you know,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: it's selfless. Everybody's trying to do their best for the organization.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: And that culture, you know, is a hard thing to initiate,
• 45:21
  Speaker 3: but once that has been established, it it works, and
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: once you have some success through that, it kind of
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: it kind kind of compels people to continue doing that.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: And it's awesome. It's it's it's healthy, it's fun. It's
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: disappointing when you lose to the Dodgers in the NLCS,
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: but the day to day is great. It's full of
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: good people who are good teammates and it's a really
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: fun place.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: To work, Matt. Matt, building off of Ryan's question, I
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: think you referenced it with regards to your hire of
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: Gabe Kapler, that he was the right guy at the
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: right time. And oftentimes when we use that language there
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: they're dynamic that are required for that person to excel. Well,
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: you're a little bit different. You've worked for a very
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: variety of general managers and you've always been the right
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: guy to be hired. And I just be curious the
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: lessons you learned working with Jerry Depoto, who we talked
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: about earlier when you were at the Anaheim Angels arguably
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: one of the most aggressive front office executives over the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: last twenty years. And then transitioning to now when you're
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: working with Matt Arnold, who is a more measured general manager,
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: how do you still serve that role as the conciliary
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: to both and maximize your leaders when you're in those spots,
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Because I think that's one of your superpowers is regardless
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: of the market dynamic, you're always the right hire.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: How have you.
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: Developed, learned and grown in those environments? And then as
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: you just reference, you're going to get a chance to
• 46:49
  Speaker 2: be a jam again, Like what have you taken away
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: from those experiences and your experience in Philadelphia that will
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: shape when you have the next opportunity to lead a
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: majorly franchise.
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate you saying that that I don't, so
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: it's interesting. My mindset is that no matter how old
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: you are, no matter what your your experience suggests, you
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: should never stop learning. And candidly, that is a big
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: reason why, you know, when I was at Post Philly,
• 47:21
  Speaker 3: when I was trying to figure out what my next
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: job was going to be, it was a big part
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: of the draw to working for the Brewers, kind of
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: going back to Ryan's question, like there was something about
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: the way the Brewers were operating that was intriguing to me.
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what it was. I now have a
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: better sense, which I just shared with you. But but
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: you know, I was forty years old at the time,
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: forty forty one years old at the time, and I
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: wanted to I want to learn. I wanted to get
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: back to learning. And you mentioned Jerry, you mentioned Matt Arnold,
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: Annie mcphale came up earlier, the managers that I've worked for,
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: the owners that I've worked for, all of these people
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: in any of our careers helped to shape us, and
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: you know we can take things away from them. Like
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: that was impressive. I like that. I'm going to try
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: to incorporate that into what I do, and it can
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: work the other way too. I did not like that.
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: I don't think that would work for me. I want
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: to make sure I try to avoid that as I operate,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: and that's kind of always been my mindset. You know,
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: it sounds simple. I'm not constantly thinking about it, but
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: I just try to operate that way. And you're right,
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: Like with to answer your question about Jerry versus Matt specifically,
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: they do have different temperaments, they do have different styles,
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: they do have different belief systems. But part of being
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: a good advisor or assistant GM is just helping your
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: leader to make sure that they are asking the right
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: questions and considering the right things. And it doesn't mean
• 48:45
  Speaker 3: that I am pushing one thing over another. It's just
• 48:50
  Speaker 3: let's make sure we are appreciating the entirety of the
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: problem or the question and make sure we're getting to
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: the best answer for us right now. And yeah, there
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: might be different styles. You might have to be a
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: little more hit it, tackle something more head on sometimes
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: you made it to take a longer term approach, depending
• 49:07
  Speaker 3: on the situation, depending on the people. But I think
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: that's ultimately what I try to do is just you know,
• 49:13
  Speaker 3: ask the right questions and obviously, when asked an opinion like,
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: be willing to share it, but thoughtfully, respectfully and not
• 49:21
  Speaker 3: understanding that there are many, many, many layers to decisions
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: and it's never about just one thing.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: Now, one of the things that I think guys like
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: the three of us are uniquely sensitive to is how
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: you left an organization.
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: It sounds simple, but the goal I think for all
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: of us, and knowing that ninety nine, if not one
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: hundred percent of people who work in pro sports get
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: fired at some point, is to leave something better than
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: you found it. So I want to go back to
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: your time in Philly, you know, and that and I
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: talk about this a lot on the show. Fair is
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: a relative term in sports. The fair doesn't really apply.
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: I mean to me, in a short season, missing the
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: playoffs by a game as GM of the Philly is
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: twenty two is certainly not a good reason to get fired.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: But that decision was not made by you. But I
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: want to fast forward a couple of years after that.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: So I think your situation a few years after when
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: the teams in the World Series was comparable to my situation.
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: I got fired by the as the GM of the
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: Phoenix Suns in twenty eighteen. In twenty twenty one, still
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: living in Arizona, sitting on my couch watching the team
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: play in the NBA Finals, and it was a unique thing.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: I think you and I probably have that in common.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: So what was that like? You know, kind of be
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: as obviously as honest and transparent as you can. I
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: had some mixed emotions, frankly, watching the team that I
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: helped construct play in the NBA Finals. What was that
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: like for you? Watching a lot of the guys you
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: brought in for Philly playing on the game's biggest stage
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: a few years after your dismissal.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: You said it a mix of emotions. I mean, that's
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: exactly what it was. You know. There's obviously, I'll start
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: with the sort of the negative. There's the I wish
• 50:51
  Speaker 3: I was there for this, you know. I mean I
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: spent a lot of time, years, blood, sweated, tears, you know,
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: put putting into that organization, and then you know, not
• 51:01
  Speaker 3: to be there when it gets good. Is was hard
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: just to call it what it is. But I think
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: on the other side of that, I can look out
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: on that field, whether it's players, coaches, owners, front office fans,
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: and be genuinely happy for all of those people, and
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: both of those it was okay for both of those
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: things to be true, and they were, you know, and
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: it and it doesn't didn't. I tried watching the games.
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: I tried not watching the games. I tried just refreshing
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: on my phone. None of those things were great. But
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: in the end, it was easier for me to just
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: watch the games. And yeah, it was. It was hard.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: That is getting easier, as you can probably imagine, as
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: as the years pass, and you know, both the Brewers
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: have had you know, we've had our own success, and
• 51:47
  Speaker 3: also as the Phillies roster evolves, it's, you know, it
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: looks less and less like like the team that I
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: that was there when I when I departed. But but yeah,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: a mix of emotions, as you said, Ryan, is probably
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: the best way to characterize.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: That, Matt. One of the things we've talked about in
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: the show is the fact that right, wrong or indifferent,
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: we get credit for the times we served in the role,
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: but we inherit a team, and we also bequeath a
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: team to our successor, and that doesn't really factor in.
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: So when I started with the Minnesota Twins twenty seventeen,
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: you referenced it earlier. You guys had the first pick
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: in the draft. Well, we had the first pick in
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: the draft that year, which means the twenty sixteen team
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: was unfortunately thirtieth the thirty teams. So you inherit the
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: first pick in the draft. Well, we also went to
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: the playoffs in twenty seventeen, which was kind of a
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: miraculous stars crossing in the night. We got credit for that,
• 52:34
  Speaker 2: but in practice, we really had almost nothing to do
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: with the roster that went to the playoffs that year.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: That was Terry Ryan. He deserved all the credit for it.
• 52:42
  Speaker 2: Can you talk to the fans a little bit about
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: you had built the backbone of that team that went
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: to the twenty twenty two World Series, four players in particular.
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: Can you share a story or two about how you
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: acquired these guys. I'm thinking of Zach Wheeler and Bryce
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: and Stott, of course, Bryce Harper and Real Mudo. You
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: kind of did all of the things in different ways,
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: but those guys are still the backbone of that franchise,
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: and those were guys that you came on board during
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: your watch and it just carries. Can you share a
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: few stories about those guys.
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, happy to do it. You know. I talked earlier
• 53:12
  Speaker 3: about kind of the different phases of my Phillies tenure. Well,
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: all all of those were acquired sort of in the
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: later phase as we were pushing more resources into to
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: the present team as opposed to the future teams. So
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: I think I'm trying to sequentially. So JT was acquired
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: in a trade with Miami in the winter heading into
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: the nineteen season. That was for the Philly fans out there,
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: that was what became known as the stupid Money off season,
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: if you recall, which was not exactly what John Middleton said,
• 53:46
  Speaker 3: but that's what that's how it was labeled. But really
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: it was an aggressive off season where we were attempting
• 53:52
  Speaker 3: to turn the page from sort of from the rebuild
• 53:54
  Speaker 3: to a competitive team. And in that off season we
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: brought in we made a trade that brought in Gene Sigura,
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: We broughtly made a free agent signing of David Robertson,
• 54:03
  Speaker 3: a free agent signing of Andrew McCutcheon. Those things were
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: done in the I think, you know, earlier part of
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: the off season, and then as we were approaching spring training,
• 54:12
  Speaker 3: we were able to land JT in a trade with
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: the Marlins, and then a few weeks later we're was
• 54:18
  Speaker 3: able to we were able to sign Bryce Harper. The
• 54:20
  Speaker 3: JT trade was it took a long It took a
• 54:24
  Speaker 3: long time. We'd been asking about JT and trade for
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: several years. Michael Hill was the GM in Florida, who
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: I know, you know very well with that, and so
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: they knew of our interest there for a long time.
• 54:33
  Speaker 3: And it wasn't until late January early February that when
• 54:37
  Speaker 3: I was when I basically allowed, you know, put six
• 54:41
  Speaker 3: Dos Sanchez on the table. That that was what really
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: got their attention and allowed the thing to move forward,
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: and we were able to do that again. I think
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: it was probably the first week of February or so,
• 54:51
  Speaker 3: which is fairly late in the off season.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: As you know, and just so people know, Sixtos Sanchez
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: was probably one of the pre eminent pitching prospects in
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: the game at the time.
• 55:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't remember exactly where he ranked, but
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: he was he was the headliner, and then we ended
• 55:05
  Speaker 3: up rounding out the trade with Rail Farrell, a former
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: arranger from Thad's time there who was a super talented
• 55:12
  Speaker 3: catcher in his own right at the major league level
• 55:15
  Speaker 3: in his preord years. So that provided the Marlins with
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: an immediate backfill for JT as well as six though.
• 55:21
  Speaker 3: And then we rounded out the trade with an a
• 55:23
  Speaker 3: ball pitcher named Will Stewart who was a promising prospect
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: at the time, and some additional cash and international pool considerations.
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: But it really wasn't until six Dough was involved that
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: I think the Marlins started to take this thing seriously.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: This wasn't why we did it, but I do think
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: it worked out this way. I think when we acquired
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: JT that Bryce Harper became more interested in the Phillies.
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: Bryce and JT are very good friends. I don't know.
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know if they were good friends before that.
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: I know there was a mutual respect. They're both in
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: the National League East at the time. I think they
• 56:00
  Speaker 3: respected the way each one about their business, the way
• 56:03
  Speaker 3: they played. There were some comments from Harper and the
• 56:05
  Speaker 3: media about how much he liked JT. Again, I think
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: there were three hundred and thirty other three hundred thirty
• 56:09
  Speaker 3: million other reasons why Harper was attracted to Philadelphia. But
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: I do think signing JT helped. I really do. The
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: Harper free agent pursuit span an entire offseason, and it
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: was kind of a late developing free agent market. Not
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: just for Bryce that year. Manny Machado didn't sign un
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: till relatively late with the Padres that year. But there
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: was a lot that went into the Harper negotiation, but
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: also just the recruiting, including face to face meetings in
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: Las Vegas where Bryce lived, John and Is what Middleton
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: and his wife Lee flying out there to have dinner
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: separately with Bryce and Kayla, just trying to gain familiarity
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: on a personal level. This is not about dollars at
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: this point. It's about what type of environment, what type
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: of family environment, are we going to be joining here.
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: The commitment, the two way commitment from player to club
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: and club to player. Bryce was very thoughtful about all this,
• 57:03
  Speaker 3: and I as much as there's been a perception for
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: many free agents that Bryce excuse me, that Scott Boris
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: drives players through their negotiation, and some of that may
• 57:15
  Speaker 3: be true for some players, I don't know. In this one,
• 57:17
  Speaker 3: Bryce Harper was definitely driving it, and I give him
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: a lot of credit for that. He knows, he knew
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: what he wanted, he knew what he didn't want, and
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: he was very thorough about making sure he ended up
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: in the right situation. So it wasn't until the middle
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: of spring training that we actually got that over the line,
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: and that was probably a topic for another podcast about
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: actually getting it over the line. But that was kind
• 57:39
  Speaker 3: of the finishing touch on that offseason, which was a
• 57:42
  Speaker 3: pretty impactful off season for the organization.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: Matt one thing that I think has really dominated the
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: conversation around Major League Baseball, maybe the biggest story in
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: MLB apart from the World Series over the last couple
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: of weeks has been what Buster Posey and the San
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: Francisco Giants are doing. They went out and higher Tennessee
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: manager Tony Vattel. Frankly, I'm a little bit surprised that
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: it kind of took this long for Major League Baseball
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: team to do this, because as we know the NBA,
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: this happened for decades now, where teams have gone and
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: poached you know, top coaches out of college. And one
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: of the examples that it gets brought up in a
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: positive way. Is your manager of Milwaukee? Pat Murphy obviously
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: had more major league experience than Tony Vitello does. But
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: take us inside, you know, you know Pat, what is
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: he like? And you know how how do you think
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: his time in college, in addition to his major league
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: baseball experience, may have prepared him so well to manage
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: the Milwaukee Brewers.
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I kind of anticipated in Murph questions, but I
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: thought you guys would ask you about the pocket pancakes.
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: That seems to be the most popular thing Murf has
• 58:41
  Speaker 3: ever done. No, I'm teasing. Yeah, you know, I'm also
• 58:47
  Speaker 3: very intrigued by the giants hiring of Tony to see
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: how that goes. Obviously, he's been wildly successful at the
• 58:53
  Speaker 3: collegiate level, and you know, we'll see this. It could
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: become a new trend or or not. So I'm also
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: curious in Murph. Murph's awesome, as you guys, if you've
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: ever seen him on TV or met him, like an
• 59:05
  Speaker 3: incredibly engaging, great leader. He's fantastic, and the you know,
• 59:09
  Speaker 3: the wins and losses the last couple of years I
• 59:11
  Speaker 3: think have bought some of that out. I think Murph
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: would be the first to tell you though, you know,
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: in contrasting, comparing, contrasting himself to Tony is that, yes,
• 59:21
  Speaker 3: he was a decorated college coach, college baseball coach for
• 59:24
  Speaker 3: a number of years, but he also had ten years
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: of experience in the pro game before he got his
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: first full time managerial job, and he learned a lot
• 59:33
  Speaker 3: in that time, you know, both good and bad, you know,
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: But so he was able to sort of amend his
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: style a little bit before doing that. So I think
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: that they're probably they're probably not apples to apples exactly,
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: but I think they are. There's probably some you know,
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: some parallels we can draw. But yeah, I think, like
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: in Murph's case, I think anytime you're the leader of anything,
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: you know, I think you gain certain experiences that will
• 59:57
  Speaker 3: be applicable to your next leadership gig. And you know,
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 3: Murph having that at a high profile collegiate level, just
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: what it's like to speak in front of the team
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 3: or to make decisions right, those are things that you
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: can't replicate really unless you've done them. And I think
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: he I think Murph, after really experiencing an entire career
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 3: in baseball prior to assuming the manager gig in Milwaukee.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 3: I think he's experienced a lot of things and he
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 3: was very well prepared for this job.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Matt, thank you so much for your time on behalf
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: of Ryan and myself. We've really enjoyed the conversation. For
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: the listeners, please come back next week and every week
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: on Rosters to Rings