Transcript

Sharri | 5 October · Sharri

0:07
Speaker 1: Great to have you back, Andrew. Good evening. Tonight, an
0:10
Speaker 1: explosive revelation from Josh Frydenberg that he considered challenging Scott
0:15
Speaker 1: Morrison for the prime ministership before the 2022 election. My
0:19
Speaker 1: exclusive coming up. Bombshell claims the fly Dubai hijacker may
0:25
Speaker 1: have been radicalised in Melbourne. A former Mossad spy will
0:29
Speaker 1: be on the show tonight to tell us what he knows.
0:33
Speaker 1: And I've given testimony to the United Nations Human Rights Council.
0:37
Speaker 1: I'll show you what action I've urged them to take. Plus,
0:41
Speaker 1: Pauline Hanson's campaign launch in Victoria. Steve Price and Bronwyn
0:45
Speaker 1: Bishop will be here on that shortly. But first, tonight...
0:50
Speaker 1: Former Treasurer Josh Frydenberg has revealed he considered challenging Scott
0:55
Speaker 1: Morrison for the prime ministership. The sensational comments come in
0:59
Speaker 1: a bombshell interview Frydenberg has given me as he publishes
1:04
Speaker 1: his autobiography, A Grateful Son. Frydenberg says colleagues were urging
1:10
Speaker 1: him to take on Morrison in late 2021. I'm going
1:14
Speaker 1: to bring you the full interview next Monday. And it's
1:17
Speaker 1: so powerful, don't miss it. But here's a bit about
1:21
Speaker 1: what he told me about challenging Scott Morrison. Some of
1:26
Speaker 1: your colleagues in late 2021 were urging you to challenge
1:30
Speaker 1: Scott Morrison.
1:32
Speaker 2: Well, the Prime Minister's approval ratings had fallen. We were
1:36
Speaker 2: behind in the polls. We were dealing with another outbreak
1:40
Speaker 2: of COVID-19. And so a number of colleagues had spoken
1:44
Speaker 2: to me about potentially challenging for the prime ministership. But
1:48
Speaker 2: it was not something I wanted to do and it
1:51
Speaker 2: was not something I was going to do.
1:53
Speaker 1: You did think seriously about it, though.
1:56
Speaker 2: I didn't to the point of counting the numbers and
1:59
Speaker 2: getting active like that. I heard people's complaints and issues
2:06
Speaker 2: that they raised about the direction we were going in.
2:11
Speaker 1: And in fact, Frydenberg admits he even took advice from
2:14
Speaker 1: former diplomat and head of ASIO, Dennis Richardson, who'd also
2:18
Speaker 1: served as chief of staff to Bob Hawke.
2:22
Speaker 2: And so he's somebody who had seen leadership turmoil up close.
2:27
Speaker 2: And his advice was pretty clear that if you challenge
2:30
Speaker 2: a prime minister, it can poison your own prime ministership
2:35
Speaker 2: if you're successful.
2:37
Speaker 1: If Frydenberg had challenged successfully, that would have put him
2:41
Speaker 1: up against Anthony Albanese in the 2022 election. Frydenberg also
2:47
Speaker 1: told me he felt undermined by Morrison's extraordinary decision, initially
2:52
Speaker 1: kept secret from Cabinet colleagues and voters, to have himself
2:56
Speaker 1: sworn in to five ministries, including as Treasurer. You felt
3:01
Speaker 1: it was a betrayal?
3:02
Speaker 2: I felt undermined by it. And I made my concerns
3:06
Speaker 2: known at the time. What struck me as odd, to
3:09
Speaker 2: say the least, was when I spoke to Morrison about
3:13
Speaker 2: it after it was made public that he'd sworn himself
3:16
Speaker 2: into Treasury, he said to me if he had his
3:18
Speaker 2: time again he would have done the same and I
3:20
Speaker 2: couldn't believe that.
3:23
Speaker 1: And Frydenberg says had his colleagues known about this, the
3:26
Speaker 1: secret ministries, Scott Morrison may have been overthrown as Prime Minister.
3:32
Speaker 1: Had you known about the secret ministries, do you think
3:35
Speaker 1: that may have changed your calculation about whether to challenge?
3:39
Speaker 2: Well, I think for other colleagues, it would have created
3:42
Speaker 2: its own dynamic. And I think it would have been
3:45
Speaker 2: very difficult for the Prime Minister to keep the team
3:47
Speaker 2: together if those secret ministries had become public at the time.
3:52
Speaker 1: They would have urged you to take on the top job.
3:56
Speaker 2: Well, that's about me. I think it's more about People
4:00
Speaker 2: would not have been happy with the status quo. They
4:02
Speaker 2: would not have been happy with the explanation either.
4:06
Speaker 1: And, of course, there's more detail on that in the
4:08
Speaker 1: full interview. I also asked Frydenberg about the Liberal Party,
4:12
Speaker 1: whether it can recover... Now, Josh, in this interview, he
4:16
Speaker 1: goes in depth, he's unfielded, he opens up about many
4:19
Speaker 1: aspects of his political and personal life that he's never
4:23
Speaker 1: spoken about before. And here's just one example. This is
4:27
Speaker 1: from our promo. He's frank about his personal relationship with
4:31
Speaker 1: Scott Morrison. Thank you so much for joining us.
4:35
Speaker 3: In a one-hour special.
4:37
Speaker 1: You'd never seen Morrison lose his temper like this.
4:39
Speaker 2: What I saw that day was another level.
4:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's extraordinary behind-the-scenes detail. And, of course, I ask
4:47
Speaker 1: him about the leadership and if he wants to be
4:50
Speaker 1: Prime Minister. It has been your lifelong dream to be
4:54
Speaker 1: Prime Minister, hasn't it? And I'll play you his answer
4:58
Speaker 1: a week from today, next Monday night. And I really
5:02
Speaker 1: drilled into this topic of Josh's future ambitions and his
5:06
Speaker 1: vision for Australia. What would he do if he were Leader?
5:10
Speaker 1: And with the Liberals trailing in the polls, there are
5:12
Speaker 1: serious questions about whether the coalition can recover. And so
5:17
Speaker 1: my interview with Josh comes at an important time. And
5:21
Speaker 1: here's another sneak peek. Here's what he had to say
5:24
Speaker 1: about the Liberal Party and about Angus Taylor's leadership. The
5:29
Speaker 1: Liberal Party is having a near-death experience.
5:33
Speaker 4: It's existential.
5:35
Speaker 1: Do you think it'll come back or do you think
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Speaker 1: the party is in a permanent demise?
5:40
Speaker 2: Well, as you know, the Liberal Party's been on the
5:42
Speaker 2: canvas before. We lost five consecutive elections in the 1980s
5:46
Speaker 2: and the 1990s and we returned to government. Then it
5:50
Speaker 2: felt cyclical in that the tide would turn and we
5:54
Speaker 2: would get back into government, which we did. This time
5:56
Speaker 2: it feels a bit more structural, Shari. It feels like
6:00
Speaker 2: things are different, not only has the demographic shift changed dramatically,
6:06
Speaker 2: the population is a lot more urbanised, it's younger, It's
6:10
Speaker 2: more highly educated. But the Liberal Party is facing significant
6:16
Speaker 2: challenges on both its left flank from the Teals and
6:20
Speaker 2: its right flank with One Nation. So I do think
6:25
Speaker 2: it's an existential threat and I do think we have
6:29
Speaker 2: a huge task ahead.
6:31
Speaker 1: Is it a matter of the right leader? Do you
6:33
Speaker 1: think it's Angus Taylor that's the issue?
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Speaker 2: I fully support Angus as leader... and recognise that there's
6:41
Speaker 2: lots of good people there doing important work. But we
6:45
Speaker 2: can't accept business as usual because the vote is so
6:48
Speaker 2: low for the coalition. And yes, the vote is low
6:51
Speaker 2: for the Labor Party, but they still win 94 seats
6:55
Speaker 2: with a primary vote in the low 30s. We win
6:58
Speaker 2: 43 with a low vote in the low 30s. That
7:01
Speaker 2: says something very powerful about how we need to take
7:05
Speaker 2: the challenge differently forward.
7:08
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, our interview coincides with the release of
7:11
Speaker 1: Frydenberg's new book. It's a memoir, A Grateful Son. It
7:15
Speaker 1: goes through his family upbringing, his career, the COVID pandemic
7:19
Speaker 1: and the anti-Semitism crisis, Bondi too, even the Royal Commission.
7:25
Speaker 1: And he also speaks in his book and in our
7:27
Speaker 1: interview about his family's escape from Nazi Europe. It's an
7:32
Speaker 1: extraordinary story that you tell in the book.
7:34
Speaker 2: My mother, who was pretty much left for dead.
7:38
Speaker 1: So my interview with Josh Frydenberg airing next Monday at 8pm.
7:43
Speaker 1: Write it in your diary. Don't miss it. There are
7:46
Speaker 1: so many more explosive and juicy revelations, both in our
7:49
Speaker 1: interview and in his book. And then I push him
7:52
Speaker 1: in the interview on some of the revelations from his book.
7:56
Speaker 1: And you can pre-order Josh's book now on Amazon. It's
7:59
Speaker 1: called A Grateful Son. It's an excellent read. Look it
8:03
Speaker 1: up and pre-order it. All right, now to new details
8:10
Speaker 1: about the fly Dubai hijackers' links to Australia. ASIO, AFP
8:15
Speaker 1: and police are investigating whether the co-pilot, Hamam al-Hamami, was
8:21
Speaker 1: radicalised while in Australia. It turns out Hamami, from Oman,
8:26
Speaker 1: was granted an Australian student visa in 2014. He studied
8:31
Speaker 1: engineering at RMIT University in Melbourne from 2015 for two years.
8:38
Speaker 1: The Financial Times reports that in Australia he visited radical
8:42
Speaker 1: mosques and accessed extremist websites. The media outlet reports that
8:47
Speaker 1: the country's intelligence services, that means Australia's, held a file
8:53
Speaker 1: on this individual. Now, this is extraordinary and we should
8:56
Speaker 1: know more information about this if their reporting is true.
9:01
Speaker 1: The article paints the picture that his time in Australia
9:04
Speaker 1: was critical because to his radicalisation journey. Now, he was
9:09
Speaker 1: about 18 to 20 years old when he was in Melbourne.
9:12
Speaker 1: It was before his aviation career. As I said, he
9:15
Speaker 1: was studying engineering. And Emirati officials are reportedly frustrated that
9:22
Speaker 1: Australia and Oman possessed intelligence concerning Hammami, but apparently it
9:29
Speaker 1: wasn't properly shared. This is what the Financial Times reports. Unfortunately,
9:35
Speaker 1: the Amanis and Australians are only now beginning to share
9:38
Speaker 1: this information with us, said a person briefed on the
9:41
Speaker 1: Emirati investigation. Now, of course, there could be truth to this.
9:47
Speaker 1: It could also be blame shifting. If true, it goes
9:52
Speaker 1: to significant intelligence sharing failure between nations and between airlines.
9:59
Speaker 1: The fact is, Aman, Air had blocked the hijacker from
10:02
Speaker 1: flying because of his extremist views, as expressed on social media.
10:09
Speaker 1: Hammami reportedly encouraged violence against women. He also expressed hate
10:14
Speaker 1: for Jews and gay people.
10:16
Speaker 5: Have a look.
10:18
Speaker 6: The video ends with a tribute to al-Qaeda's former leader
10:21
Speaker 6: Ayman al-Zawahiri, Osama bin Laden's successor, as well as a
10:25
Speaker 6: suicide bomber who killed nine people at a CIA outpost
10:29
Speaker 6: in Afghanistan in 2009. More than 3,000 tweets from a
10:33
Speaker 6: deleted account bearing his name. They were published between 2021
10:38
Speaker 6: and 2022. These portray a murkier mindset.
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Speaker 1: One obsessed with women.
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Speaker 6: Nearly half the posts reference women, including this one. The
10:48
Speaker 6: post brags about putting women through quote-unquote slut tests. In
10:53
Speaker 6: other posts, he refers to them as quote-unquote banging machines.
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Speaker 1: And so much more. Yet despite this, Hammami was able
11:02
Speaker 1: to get a job at Fly Dubai. And not just that,
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Speaker 1: but a job that flew to Israel on that sensitive
11:09
Speaker 1: route from Dubai to Tel Aviv. And we're now learning
11:13
Speaker 1: more about his plan and what he intended to do
11:16
Speaker 1: on flight FZ1073 as he's subject to interrogations in Saudi Arabia.
11:22
Speaker 1: And we're hearing that he intended to crash the plane
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Speaker 1: into Tel Aviv International Airport in a September 11-style attack.
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Speaker 1: This has been confirmed by Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
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Speaker 7: So the amazing heroism here of the Indian pilot, the
11:41
Speaker 7: Israeli passenger and his colleagues. And those pilots managed to
11:46
Speaker 7: prevent a 9-11 disaster because that's what it looks like
11:51
Speaker 7: was happening.
11:54
Speaker 1: And these are the admissions he's reportedly making during his interrogation.
11:59
Speaker 1: But already. There are crazy conspiracies all over social media
12:04
Speaker 1: about this flight, that it was all staged by Israel
12:07
Speaker 1: for some unknown benefit. And here's one Australian, Michael West,
12:14
Speaker 1: claiming that it's a false flag.
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Speaker 8: There should have been more people injured in this plane nosediving,
12:20
Speaker 8: but apparently it defied the laws of physics. Who were
12:25
Speaker 8: these heroes of the rescue of the Fly Dubai flight?
12:29
Speaker 8: Were they Benjamin Netanyahu, his plumber from Mossad.
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Speaker 5: Who valiantly saved the day? Or were they the.
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Speaker 8: 40 beheaded babies who lifted the plane to safety on
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Speaker 8: their fairy wings? Yes, two false flags in one week
12:46
Speaker 8: to keep the terror ticking along.
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Speaker 1: Nutty, nutty stuff. And he's not alone. Here's former Herald
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Speaker 1: journalist and best friend of Peter Fitzsimons, Mike Carlton. It's
12:58
Speaker 1: what he said on social media. He said, I'm not
13:00
Speaker 1: into conspiracy theories, but there is still something that doesn't
13:04
Speaker 1: fit about this story. Hard to believe that a totally
13:07
Speaker 1: untrained plumber managed to pull up a 737 jet nosediving
13:11
Speaker 1: at around 1,000 kilometres an hour. Well, this is just
13:15
Speaker 1: plain wrong. The plumber, Yaniv Hayoun, briefly pulled back on
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Speaker 1: the controls, but he didn't navigate or land the aircraft.
13:23
Speaker 1: That was, of course, the reserve flight you buy pilots.
13:27
Speaker 1: And Mike Carlton would know that if he bothered to
13:29
Speaker 1: read about what happened. And here's Yaniv speaking about what
13:33
Speaker 1: he did, his heroic actions.
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Speaker 3: And then there was a tree with a very sharp
13:41
Speaker 3: blow to the bottom, something that shocked me.
13:44
Speaker 9: As the drivers were.
13:45
Speaker 3: Standing in front of the cockpit, I grabbed the chair,
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Speaker 3: the pilots on the chair, one was down, one on
13:50
Speaker 3: the machines, and another one entered with me.
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Speaker 9: I grabbed the attacker.
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Speaker 3: Hopefully you could read the subtitles there.
14:21
Speaker 1: It's incredible that he grabbed the controls and pulled back,
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Speaker 1: as he just told Netanyahu. He said he'd seen it
14:27
Speaker 1: on TV shows, Air Crash Investigation. But ultimately, he didn't
14:32
Speaker 1: land the plane. And the Indian captain, Smit Mehar, has
14:36
Speaker 1: also spoken about how he unlocked the door to allow
14:40
Speaker 1: passengers to save him and others to save the plane.
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Speaker 10: And when I was on the ground, I realized that
14:47
Speaker 10: the aircraft was falling down. And I knew in that
14:50
Speaker 10: moment One last push, Smeet. Just do it. The door
14:54
Speaker 10: is right there. And even at that time, he was
14:56
Speaker 10: beating me up. And then I just opened it, sir,
14:59
Speaker 10: and then everybody came. And everybody else also played.
15:02
Speaker 3: An equal role in this.
15:04
Speaker 10: I was telling, sir, that I was doing this for
15:06
Speaker 10: my life. But at the same time, I knew that
15:09
Speaker 10: I cannot let everybody else die.
15:12
Speaker 1: And he was speaking to Prime Minister Modi there. Look,
15:15
Speaker 1: this is irrefutable. Yet the conspiracy theorists are multiplying at
15:20
Speaker 1: an astonishing rate, claiming this was all an Israeli set-up.
15:24
Speaker 1: And I find it depressing that there are so many
15:26
Speaker 1: millions of people out there who just don't accept basic facts.
15:31
Speaker 1: And the facts are that the aircraft was Emirati. The
15:35
Speaker 1: suspect is being held in the UAE, which is leading
15:38
Speaker 1: the investigation. And the UAE Attorney General says this was
15:43
Speaker 1: an attempted terror act. These are all inconvenient truths for
15:48
Speaker 1: the Israel haters who can't bring themselves to condemn Islamic
15:53
Speaker 1: terrorism or accept the incredible courage of Israeli passengers. Now,
16:03
Speaker 1: I want to share with you that I gave testimony
16:06
Speaker 1: to the United Nations Human Rights Council on Friday. My
16:10
Speaker 1: evidence was under its notorious Agenda 7 item. This was
16:15
Speaker 1: permanently written into the Council's agenda in 2007, specifically to
16:20
Speaker 1: scrutinise Israel. The democracy of Israel is the only country
16:25
Speaker 1: in the world subjected to its own permanent agenda item.
16:30
Speaker 1: Not Iran, not North Korea, not China, not Russia, no
16:33
Speaker 1: Muslim-majority nation, only Israel. The United Nations Human Rights Council
16:39
Speaker 1: unfairly singles out the Jewish state. But on Friday, something
16:44
Speaker 1: different happened. Usually, Jewish human rights organisations would address the
16:50
Speaker 1: council in defence of Israel. But instead, this session, they
16:56
Speaker 1: forced the council to listen to what's happening to Jews
17:00
Speaker 1: around the world, the explosion of anti-Semitism and terrorism. And
17:04
Speaker 1: that's why I was asked to give evidence. Former hostage
17:08
Speaker 1: Eli Sharabi also spoke, and he shared testimony of how
17:12
Speaker 1: Hamas terrorists kidnapped him from his home on October 7
17:16
Speaker 1: and murdered his wife, Leanne, and their two daughters.
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Speaker 11: For 491 days, I was held underground, chained, starved, beaten
17:28
Speaker 11: and humiliated. I'm here to call on you to use
17:32
Speaker 11: your mandate to bring change. The Jerusalem Institute of Justice
17:38
Speaker 11: documented the deliberate starvation of over 78 hostages. I returned
17:44
Speaker 11: weighing just 44 kilos. This council must act, recognize the torture,
17:52
Speaker 11: demand criminal investigations, and confront the terrorist networks. Name these
17:59
Speaker 11: crimes and impunity.
18:02
Speaker 1: This is a really important message as we approach on Wednesday,
18:06
Speaker 1: three years from the Hamas attacks, because the United Nations
18:11
Speaker 1: Human Rights Council has done nothing to act on Palestinian terrorism.
18:16
Speaker 1: It hasn't even described October 7 as a terror attack.
18:20
Speaker 1: I also then gave evidence via video link about anti-Semitism
18:24
Speaker 1: here in Australia. And I started by telling the UN
18:28
Speaker 1: Human Rights Council about what happened at Bondi Beach.
18:35
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
18:36
Speaker 5: I recognise nobody.
18:41
Speaker 1: Mr President, on December 14, my family was evacuated from
18:46
Speaker 1: a Jewish festival as gunfire erupted nearby at Bondi Beach
18:51
Speaker 1: in Australia. Since then, I've recorded for posterity the stories
18:55
Speaker 1: of the 15 killed and the 42 shot in a
18:59
Speaker 1: documentary and book. among them 10-year-old Matilda, whose parents had
19:04
Speaker 1: brought her to Bondi for face painting and bubbles. She
19:08
Speaker 1: was gunned down and the doctors couldn't save her. Holocaust
19:13
Speaker 1: survivor Alex Clayton was also killed, as was Rabbi Eli
19:17
Speaker 1: Schlanger and Edith Bruckman. A newborn baby hospitalised with shrapnel wounds,
19:23
Speaker 1: while a couple in their 60s, Boris and Sophia German,
19:26
Speaker 1: sacrificed their lives confronting the shooters. And then I had
19:32
Speaker 1: a message for the body itself. I spoke to them
19:36
Speaker 1: about the hatred of the anti-Zionism movement around the world.
19:40
Speaker 1: And I urged the United Nations Human Rights Council to
19:43
Speaker 1: take action, to wake up. According to court documents, the
19:48
Speaker 1: attackers had condemned... the actions of Zionists. This shows, clear
19:54
Speaker 1: as night follows day, that hatred against Zionists leads to
19:58
Speaker 1: violence against Jews. Anti-Zionism is inextricably linked to anti-Semitism. Across
20:06
Speaker 1: the diaspora, this movement has proved violent and deadly. I
20:10
Speaker 1: implore the Human Rights Council to wake up to what's
20:14
Speaker 1: happening to Jews around the world and take action against
20:17
Speaker 1: this hate before more innocent lives are lost. Thank you.
20:22
Speaker 7: Muchas gracias.
20:26
Speaker 11: Thank you very much.
20:27
Speaker 4: I now recognise the Errata Organisation Against Torture and Enforced Disappearance.
20:33
Speaker 1: And I gave evidence to the UN Human Rights Council
20:36
Speaker 1: on behalf of international human rights institution B'nai B'rith. And
20:40
Speaker 1: I was grateful for the opportunity. B'nai B'rith is an
20:44
Speaker 1: international Jewish community service and advocacy organisation that promotes human
20:49
Speaker 1: rights and tolerance. Its work is incredibly important. And one
20:54
Speaker 1: of those killed at Bondi, Edith Brutman, volunteered for B'nai
20:58
Speaker 1: B'rith for many years. In a separate video, Rabbi Joe
21:03
Speaker 1: Konofsky in Toronto also spoke about how his synagogue has
21:08
Speaker 1: been attacked more than 10 times since October 7. Its
21:12
Speaker 1: windows smashed, its doors shattered and signs set on fire.
21:18
Speaker 9: We are among Jewish institutions nationwide in Canada that have
21:22
Speaker 9: been harassed, shot at and set aflame. No Jewish citizen
21:26
Speaker 9: has felt completely safe. Despite the best efforts of Toronto police,
21:31
Speaker 9: violence continues. Darker days are ahead for our society unless
21:35
Speaker 9: we call out Jew hatred in Israel and abroad and
21:39
Speaker 9: cease tolerance and justification for these acts.
21:43
Speaker 1: Yeah, very strong message as well there. The UN Human
21:47
Speaker 1: Rights Council is the body charged with promotion and protection
21:51
Speaker 1: of human rights around the world. Yet it has adopted
21:54
Speaker 1: 116 resolutions condemning Israel since it was created in 2006.
22:00
Speaker 1: And just by contrast, have a look at the condemnatory
22:05
Speaker 1: resolutions against other nations. So you've got Israel, 116, Syria, 45,
22:12
Speaker 1: North Korea, 19, Iran, 18, Russia, 14, Sudan, 5, Venezuela, 4,
22:20
Speaker 1: and none against China, Cuba, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar or Pakistan.
22:28
Speaker 1: And that's according to an analysis by UN Human Rights Watch.
22:31
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a joke. Some of these nations are tyrannies,
22:35
Speaker 1: dictatorships and large-scale funders of terrorism. As UN Human Rights
22:39
Speaker 1: Watch Executive Director Hillel Noyer says, this body has been
22:44
Speaker 1: corrupted by dictatorships. He says more than 60% of the
22:48
Speaker 1: members are either full-on dictatorships, serial human rights abusers or
22:53
Speaker 1: other non-democracies. And remember who actually sits in judgment on
22:58
Speaker 1: the UN Human Rights Council. Its voting members include China, Cuba, Pakistan,
23:04
Speaker 1: Qatar and Iraq. Not Israel. not Australia, not the United States.
23:11
Speaker 1: And I mean, that partly explains why the Human Rights
23:14
Speaker 1: Council has done nothing to address the deadly anti-Semitism crisis
23:20
Speaker 1: that's exploded globally. And instead, it's protected or ignored terrorism
23:27
Speaker 1: and Islamic fundamentalism. OK, I'll come back to some of
23:35
Speaker 1: those topics with my panel, Bronwyn Bishop and Steve Price,
23:38
Speaker 1: a bit later. But now let's turn to federal politics.
23:41
Speaker 1: And joining me is Shadow Treasurer Tim Wilson. Tim, great
23:44
Speaker 1: to see you. Look, I just want to start with
23:47
Speaker 1: your reaction to my revelations tonight that Josh Frydenberg was
23:51
Speaker 1: urged by his Liberal colleagues to challenge Scott Morrison for
23:55
Speaker 1: the leadership prior to the 2022 election. Do you think
24:00
Speaker 1: he should have?
24:04
Speaker 5: Well, it's all in history now, Shari.
24:06
Speaker 12: And so you can navel gaze and say, maybe had
24:10
Speaker 12: I done that, it would have been a different outcome.
24:12
Speaker 5: It probably would have been in what trajectory?
24:14
Speaker 13: I don't know.
24:15
Speaker 5: I've heard these revelations, obviously, before.
24:19
Speaker 12: And so I think it's part of the challenge of
24:22
Speaker 12: always confronting the past is you always hope for the
24:26
Speaker 12: best in a set of circumstances. Had he done so,
24:29
Speaker 12: it would have gone in a different direction. But in
24:31
Speaker 12: the end, the party room decided they'd continue on and
24:34
Speaker 12: Of course, we've had the consequences thereafter.
24:37
Speaker 1: Given where the coalition is in the polls, would you
24:40
Speaker 1: like to see Frydenberg return to politics? Do you think
24:42
Speaker 1: he's needed?
24:46
Speaker 12: Well, I think it'd be good if Josh returned to politics.
24:48
Speaker 12: You know, we're going to hopefully win the next election
24:51
Speaker 12: under a tailor.
24:52
Speaker 5: Led leadership.
24:53
Speaker 12: And of course, I think it's really important to have strong,
24:56
Speaker 12: capable people contributing to the future of the country. And frankly,
24:59
Speaker 12: at a time like this, Shari, where there are so
25:02
Speaker 12: many problems confronting our country and more importantly, our very
25:06
Speaker 12: basic sense of social and national unity is in such
25:10
Speaker 12: a frayed way. What we need is people to come
25:14
Speaker 12: together and contribute and sacrifice for the best interests of
25:18
Speaker 12: the country. A lot of Labor politicians, to be frank,
25:21
Speaker 12: don't seem to be in it for the goodwill of
25:23
Speaker 12: the nation. We need Liberals to be standing up and
25:26
Speaker 12: contributing towards building a better Australia.
25:29
Speaker 1: I'm going to come back to the Coalition's fortunes in
25:32
Speaker 1: a moment, given you just said that you expect Angus
25:36
Speaker 1: Taylor will win government at the next election. But there's
25:38
Speaker 1: just been a breaking news story from Paul Sakai on
25:41
Speaker 1: the City Morning Herald. He says that you are announcing
25:44
Speaker 1: the immigration policy tomorrow and that the plan is to
25:49
Speaker 1: slash migration to one third of the current intake and
25:53
Speaker 1: net migration would be down to 100,000 in the first
25:57
Speaker 1: year should you win. Can you tell us about this policy?
26:03
Speaker 12: Well, we'll be making a formal announcement once it goes
26:06
Speaker 12: through its proper processes. I think it's been in the
26:08
Speaker 12: public realm that we have a party room meeting tomorrow
26:11
Speaker 12: to discuss exactly these sorts of issues. I won't front
26:14
Speaker 12: run it, but our position on migration has been consistent.
26:17
Speaker 12: We want people to come to our country, to commit
26:20
Speaker 12: to our country and contribute to our country. And when
26:23
Speaker 12: it comes to our migration policy, what we want to
26:26
Speaker 12: do is make sure we're not just getting the skills
26:28
Speaker 12: we need. We need them to be going where we
26:31
Speaker 12: need them to be going. We need people to be
26:33
Speaker 12: treating Australia as a home, not a hotel. And what
26:36
Speaker 12: we want to do is make sure that the best
26:39
Speaker 12: interests of Australians is factored into our migration policy.
26:43
Speaker 5: But any further details will, of course, be announced by.
26:46
Speaker 12: Angus Taylor as part of our comprehensive plan, not just
26:49
Speaker 12: to take back government, but.
26:51
Speaker 5: More importantly, to build the future of this great nation.
26:54
Speaker 1: But is that the number you're looking at, 100,000 in
26:57
Speaker 1: the first year? That would be lower than one nation.
27:02
Speaker 12: Well, as I said, these are decisions and these are
27:04
Speaker 12: announcements that will be made by Angus Taylor once it
27:07
Speaker 12: has gone through its proper processes. But there's no ambiguity
27:11
Speaker 12: that we've been looking at pathways to reduce migration to
27:15
Speaker 12: make sure that it's a sustainable program linked to housing,
27:19
Speaker 12: because we believe very strongly that if you can't bring
27:23
Speaker 12: if Australians can't be housed, we can't be bringing non
27:25
Speaker 12: Australians into our country also competing for that housing. So
27:30
Speaker 12: we have a comprehensive plan that we are focused on delivering,
27:33
Speaker 12: which is going to protect Australia's national interest, work for
27:37
Speaker 12: Australia and, of course, its economy as well as its people,
27:41
Speaker 12: and provides a pathway for economic, social and cultural integration
27:44
Speaker 12: so that migration is actually in Australia's national interest.
27:48
Speaker 1: Given One Nation has been soaring in the polls, partly
27:51
Speaker 1: off the back of its migration position, is this though
27:54
Speaker 1: a move from you, from Angus Taylor and the Coalition
27:57
Speaker 1: to go harder than One Nation on migration?
28:03
Speaker 12: Our focus is to make sure that Australia's migration plan
28:06
Speaker 12: is working in Australia's national interest. We've got an uncosted,
28:09
Speaker 12: non-detailed policy from One Nation. We've got a policy from
28:14
Speaker 12: the Labor Party, which basically means that.
28:18
Speaker 1: Our staff farmers won't have the.
28:19
Speaker 5: But just to confirm, you're going to go lower than that?
28:20
Speaker 1: Your figures will be... You'll be taking in fewer migrants
28:23
Speaker 1: than One Nation in the first year?
28:27
Speaker 12: Well, as I said, Shara, the announcement of our policy
28:29
Speaker 12: will be done by Angus Taylor as part of a
28:31
Speaker 12: comprehensive plan, and that will be.
28:33
Speaker 5: Done after it goes through its proper processes.
28:36
Speaker 12: But when we've got an uncosted, undetailed policy from One Nation,
28:39
Speaker 12: we've got a policy from Labor... that is focused on
28:41
Speaker 12: starving farmers of the labour force they need.
28:44
Speaker 5: Our focus is on how we bring people.
28:46
Speaker 12: And get them to come to our country, commit to
28:48
Speaker 12: our country and contribute to our country so our migration
28:51
Speaker 12: program advances Australia's national interest.
28:54
Speaker 5: And numbers will be part of that, but it's only
28:56
Speaker 5: one part of it.
28:57
Speaker 1: All right, all right. You've written a piece in The
29:00
Speaker 1: Nightly this evening about how, well, you say that Labor
29:04
Speaker 1: has ignored years of economic warnings. You say Australia has
29:07
Speaker 1: followed the folly of populist progressive policy put into practice
29:11
Speaker 1: and it's left our nation exposed. You're saying the economy
29:14
Speaker 1: has been poorly managed since the Howard era. So are
29:18
Speaker 1: you including liberal shortcomings in this since then?
29:25
Speaker 12: What I'm arguing is that there are times when coalition
29:27
Speaker 12: governments in years past should have actually changed policy and
29:31
Speaker 12: wound back some measures of Labor governments in years past.
29:36
Speaker 5: We've done some of it. Some have been blocked by
29:38
Speaker 5: the Senate. But when you have.
29:39
Speaker 12: progressive populist policies legislated by the Rudd-Gillard-Rudd era and we
29:44
Speaker 12: can't then repeal them, yes, they've continued on.
29:48
Speaker 5: We know that.
29:48
Speaker 12: We know the budget is an unsustainable position on its
29:51
Speaker 12: current trajectory. We have 40 years of deficits into the future.
29:55
Speaker 12: We also have a massive inflation problem that's being stoked
30:00
Speaker 12: by government spending and borrowing from the future to feed today.
30:03
Speaker 12: And what we've also got now, more and more is
30:06
Speaker 12: a bubbling up of private credit risk which we've concentrated
30:10
Speaker 12: risk in the economy away from sharing it across the
30:14
Speaker 12: banking sector into private credit. And there's increasing alarm bells
30:18
Speaker 12: going off there. And that becomes, it bubbles up to
30:20
Speaker 12: becoming a problem for the broader economy and financial risk
30:23
Speaker 12: for everybody.
30:24
Speaker 1: All right. Tim Wilson, thank you very much for coming in.
30:27
Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time. And still to come, a former
30:31
Speaker 1: Mossad spy, the former head of counter-terrorism joins me live. Plus,
30:35
Speaker 1: Chris Bowen invited everyone to his pre-COP meeting. But anyone,
30:39
Speaker 1: did anyone show up? My panel after the break. Great
30:45
Speaker 1: to have your company. Well, the major parties are kicking
30:48
Speaker 1: off their Victorian campaigns ahead of the November election. And
30:51
Speaker 1: One Nation leader Pauline Hanson was in Labor heartland on Saturday. Clearly,
30:56
Speaker 1: she's feeling confident. I truly believe Labor is finished in
31:02
Speaker 1: this state. I know that the Libs will not form
31:05
Speaker 1: government without the help of One Nation, whether it's the
31:08
Speaker 1: lower or the uphouse. They will not control both houses.
31:13
Speaker 1: And joining me now, former Speaker of the House, Bronwyn Bishop,
31:16
Speaker 1: and News24 host Steve Price. Great to see you both. Steve,
31:19
Speaker 1: starting with you, it's your state. Do you think it
31:22
Speaker 1: is the case, as Pauline says, that the Liberals can
31:25
Speaker 1: only win with the support of One Nation?
31:29
Speaker 14: Well, we've got four weeks to go, so we'll see.
31:31
Speaker 14: But I've been saying now for probably 10 months or
31:35
Speaker 14: more that I think what will happen is that there
31:37
Speaker 14: will be a coalition that will need One Nation numbers
31:42
Speaker 14: because they'll be in minority after the election date. I mean,
31:45
Speaker 14: the Labor Party down here, and we've seen it through
31:48
Speaker 14: the Daniel Andrews years and Jacinda Ardern, They are very
31:51
Speaker 14: good campaigners and they will throw everything they possibly can.
31:56
Speaker 14: Ben Carroll, as the new leader, is doing slightly better,
31:59
Speaker 14: although a Redbridge poll out today still has One Nation
32:03
Speaker 14: in front. I think they're going to have to rely
32:07
Speaker 14: in some form on Pauline. And I imagine what will
32:10
Speaker 14: happen is they're going to have, they'll win a cup, two, three, four,
32:13
Speaker 14: maybe lower house seats, but they will win plenty of
32:16
Speaker 14: seats in the upper house. And so Jess Wilson and
32:19
Speaker 14: her team are going to have to rely on Pauline
32:21
Speaker 14: to get legislation through.
32:22
Speaker 1: I mean, if they win outright, even if it is
32:26
Speaker 1: minority government, that's an incredible success story, Bronwyn, for the
32:29
Speaker 1: Liberal Party, and it'll give the Liberals confidence elsewhere.
32:33
Speaker 13: Yes, it will. But I thought the comments of Pauline
32:36
Speaker 13: Hanson herself were really spot on. She said that the
32:40
Speaker 13: Liberals will need one nation, be it in the lower
32:44
Speaker 13: house or the upper house. I think that's true. So
32:48
Speaker 13: I think... Victoria is the state where the Liberals have
32:51
Speaker 13: got the best chance of providing the Premier. But I
32:56
Speaker 13: agree with the assessment, Steve, that you made there. And
33:00
Speaker 13: you've heard me say it all the way along, there's
33:02
Speaker 13: a need for an accommodation.
33:05
Speaker 1: Particularly at the federal level, that's for sure. Look, many
33:08
Speaker 1: people have played this clip tonight, but it's so controversial
33:11
Speaker 1: we've got to talk about it. The One Nation Upper
33:13
Speaker 1: House candidate, Mark Nicholson, He vowed to lock up party's
33:18
Speaker 1: political opponents. Have a look. Yeah, he said that they'll
33:29
Speaker 1: be in prison by Christmas. When asked by Avi Yemeni
33:33
Speaker 1: on the sidelines, Pauline Hanson confirmed it.
33:37
Speaker 13: Daniel Andrews and Jacinta Allen in jail by Christmas.
33:40
Speaker 9: Do you agree?
33:41
Speaker 13: Oh, yeah, of course.
33:43
Speaker 1: How can you run this country into a state that
33:45
Speaker 1: it is? I think they should be held to account.
33:47
Speaker 1: And that goes for any member of parliament. I mean, Steve,
33:51
Speaker 1: this is the sort of language you see in the
33:53
Speaker 1: United States. We don't really pledge to lock up political
33:57
Speaker 1: opponents here. It's just not the way we handle politics.
34:02
Speaker 14: No, it's not. But in Mark Nicholson's defence, and he's
34:05
Speaker 14: a regular on Chris Kenny's show and I had him
34:07
Speaker 14: on the program last week when he was filling in,
34:10
Speaker 14: He said, and the reporting of this was very disingenuous
34:14
Speaker 14: during the weekend. The reporting was that One Nation wants
34:18
Speaker 14: to lock up Dan Andrews and Jacinda Allen before Christmas
34:21
Speaker 14: if they win in the November election. What Mark said was,
34:25
Speaker 14: in my view, I would like to see Dan Andrews
34:30
Speaker 14: and Jacinda Allen locked up. So in his defence, I
34:33
Speaker 14: will say that. I mean, no one expects that they're
34:35
Speaker 14: going to happen. Of course, it's not going to happen.
34:38
Speaker 14: I don't know why Pauline would have you know, rubber
34:41
Speaker 14: stamp that today. That was a silly thing to say.
34:44
Speaker 14: No one's, we've got a Royal Commission here. It's been
34:47
Speaker 14: sitting now, it's going to sit for about four weeks
34:49
Speaker 14: before the campaign starts. They won't have had any chance
34:52
Speaker 14: to make any findings at all. And neither of those
34:55
Speaker 14: premiers are ever going to go to jail. So it was, look,
34:59
Speaker 14: Mark was in front of a thousand boisterous supporters of
35:02
Speaker 14: one nation. He's not an experienced politician and he just
35:05
Speaker 14: got carried away.
35:07
Speaker 1: He's very talented. He does all the animations. He's clearly
35:10
Speaker 1: a genius, but this is kind of a dangerous area
35:14
Speaker 1: to go in and to tread in, and I'd put it, Bronwyn,
35:17
Speaker 1: in the same basket as banning journalists from press conferences
35:20
Speaker 1: if they don't like the journalists.
35:22
Speaker 13: Well, that's a different question, but I really think this
35:25
Speaker 13: other one is a storm in a teacup.
35:27
Speaker 1: I really do.
35:28
Speaker 13: I mean, it did sound Trump-ish-like when he was talking about.
35:34
Speaker 14: Defeating.
35:35
Speaker 13: He's a Democrat opponent, but it's an over-the-top statement designed
35:40
Speaker 13: to get an over-the-top reaction, and it's been successful. It
35:43
Speaker 13: has been talked about all day.
35:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I guess that is the thing, you know.
35:49
Speaker 1: With each controversy, it gets more and more media. That's
35:52
Speaker 1: part of the playbook, Steve.
35:53
Speaker 13: Absolutely.
35:55
Speaker 14: Yeah, I would say, I mean, as a Victorian, I
35:58
Speaker 14: wouldn't mind seeing Dan Andrews and Jacinda Allen in jail either.
36:01
Speaker 14: I mean, I lived through COVID with Dan Andrews telling
36:04
Speaker 14: me I couldn't sip an alcoholic drink out of a
36:07
Speaker 14: cup with a straw and I couldn't go and see
36:09
Speaker 14: my dying mother or go for a walk with more
36:11
Speaker 14: than one person. So I've got plenty of reason to
36:14
Speaker 14: see Dan Andrews thrown in jail, but it won't happen.
36:16
Speaker 1: Well, you already made sure he didn't join your golf club.
36:19
Speaker 1: You made sure that didn't happen.
36:21
Speaker 10: Correct.
36:22
Speaker 14: That was a success.
36:23
Speaker 1: Thank God. No, but I mean, the point is, of course,
36:27
Speaker 1: there's an enormous level of anger, but you can't just
36:30
Speaker 1: be locking up your political opponents. It's exactly the witch
36:33
Speaker 1: hunt that they that, you know, the Democrats have been
36:36
Speaker 1: doing against Donald Trump, as you said, Bronwyn. And it's
36:38
Speaker 1: just it's not democracy. This is not where we live.
36:41
Speaker 1: We live in a democracy. All right, to some other
36:44
Speaker 1: headlines now on Chris Bowen's pre-COP climate summit in Fiji
36:48
Speaker 1: is becoming a joke on the global stage as only
36:51
Speaker 1: two world leaders outside the Pacific RSVP'd. Now, Bowen was
36:56
Speaker 1: trying to downplay the event which started today.
36:59
Speaker 8: Yeah, and Sally, I think it's important to note that
37:02
Speaker 8: pre-COP is normally a pretty pedestrian affair.
37:05
Speaker 5: World leaders do not normally attend pre-COP at all.
37:08
Speaker 11: Prime Ministers and Presidents normally do not come to pre-COP.
37:10
Speaker 5: We have some coming.
37:13
Speaker 1: I mean, the question is, of course, Steve, if it's
37:15
Speaker 1: so pedestrian, then why are taxpayers fronting hundreds of millions
37:20
Speaker 1: of dollars for it? 100%.
37:22
Speaker 14: How come he invited all those other leaders and they
37:25
Speaker 14: simply said no? I'll tell you who this is embarrassing for.
37:28
Speaker 14: It's embarrassing for Anthony Albanese. I'm sure you've seen those
37:31
Speaker 14: pictures of him arriving at Nandi Airport today. There's, you know,
37:34
Speaker 14: a look at the National Guard of Fiji and he's
37:39
Speaker 14: saluting people and he's standing on a red carpet. I mean,
37:42
Speaker 14: he looks ridiculous. I mean, the only two leaders apparently
37:45
Speaker 14: who have turned up, even Christopher Laxon, the Prime Minister
37:47
Speaker 14: of New Zealand, has decided he wouldn't go. And you
37:50
Speaker 14: think of all countries in the Pacific who want to
37:52
Speaker 14: look after the Pacific neighbours, New Zealand would be number one.
37:55
Speaker 14: Apparently you've got the boss of Mauritius and the President
37:58
Speaker 14: of East Timor. They're the only two that have bothered
38:01
Speaker 14: to turn up. Bowen is a complete and utter embarrassment.
38:05
Speaker 15: Yeah.
38:05
Speaker 7: Bronwyn?
38:06
Speaker 13: I think the whole thing backfired. I think the whole
38:09
Speaker 13: idea of this pre-meeting... was so Bowen could say to
38:13
Speaker 13: the Turkish people who actually won the right to hold
38:15
Speaker 13: the next meeting, I'll show you up yours, basically. That's
38:20
Speaker 13: what he was saying. And it's backfired because it's an
38:23
Speaker 13: absolute failure.
38:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is indeed. And it just makes you angry
38:26
Speaker 1: how much money they're wasting on it. Bowen, Steve, great
38:29
Speaker 1: to see you both. We'll see you next Monday. Thanks.
38:33
Speaker 1: Coming up, Albanese's stunt on the coffee credit card surcharge backfires.
38:38
Speaker 1: Tom Panos will be here. Plus, a former Mossad head
38:42
Speaker 1: of counterintelligence tells us what he knows about the hijacking.
38:46
Speaker 1: That's after this quick break. Welcome back. There were many
38:52
Speaker 1: red flags that were missed about the co-pilot of the
38:56
Speaker 1: hijacked Fly Dubai flight. And for more on this, I'm
38:59
Speaker 1: joined by Mossad's former head of the Counterterrorism Division, Oded Elam. Oded,
39:05
Speaker 1: great to see you and thank you for joining us
39:06
Speaker 1: once again. Australian intelligence agencies are examining the co-pilot Hamami's
39:13
Speaker 1: time in Australia from 2015 to 2017. Are there indications
39:15
Speaker 1: he was radicalised while in Melbourne?
39:24
Speaker 4: Absolutely, there were definitely red flags while he was studying
39:28
Speaker 4: in Melbourne and let's not forget he wasn't studying philosophy.
39:32
Speaker 4: He was studying.
39:33
Speaker 9: Anatomy of aviation.
39:36
Speaker 4: And that for itself should have caused red flags on
39:41
Speaker 4: a high level. It's almost a 9-11 playbook. So right now,
39:46
Speaker 4: it is important to understand how this was seized at
39:53
Speaker 4: the time as some sort of a minor or unimportant
39:59
Speaker 4: radicalization and not taken seriously Definitely, because what we have
40:05
Speaker 4: seen after the 9-11 events, and this should be really
40:11
Speaker 4: checked deeply in understanding how to foil future events like this.
40:17
Speaker 4: And also, what did the ASEAN lead with this sort
40:21
Speaker 4: of information? Were they carrying that, or just is Giza expelled,
40:27
Speaker 4: or what did they transfer? this information into other agencies,
40:34
Speaker 4: into other airlines, for instance. It's a bridge in the
40:40
Speaker 4: relay race between nations, intelligence services.
40:44
Speaker 9: And airlines.
40:46
Speaker 1: I mean, this co-pilot, Hamami, had been banned from flying
40:50
Speaker 1: by Oman Air, but then he was flying the sensitive
40:53
Speaker 1: Tel Aviv route with Fly Dubai. So, I mean, were there...
40:58
Speaker 1: And you just indicated that you think that the information
41:01
Speaker 1: of his radicalisation in Australia wasn't handled properly. So, were
41:05
Speaker 1: there security failures here?
41:07
Speaker 13: I mean.
41:08
Speaker 1: Shouldn't Israeli and Emirati's intelligence agencies have known that he'd
41:12
Speaker 1: been radicalised given so many of his social media posts
41:15
Speaker 1: were public, given he'd been banned by Oman Air?
41:21
Speaker 4: Of course, there is a major problem that is surfacing
41:26
Speaker 4: right now, especially the sharing of information. Let's not forget
41:30
Speaker 4: one thing. The Omanis did not transfer to the Flight
41:36
Speaker 4: Dubai airline the fact that that he was being radicalized
41:42
Speaker 4: and that was the reason that they had him leave
41:48
Speaker 4: the cockpit and take some sort of an office job.
41:53
Speaker 4: That is an information that should have been directly diverted
41:58
Speaker 4: to fly Dubai and also to the Moroccan Airlines, where
42:02
Speaker 4: he also tried there to get some sort of a
42:06
Speaker 4: job and failed.
42:08
Speaker 5: And it's important to know why he failed.
42:11
Speaker 4: And so absolutely there is a problem here.
42:14
Speaker 1: I think you're giving us new information that we didn't know.
42:15
Speaker 1: I haven't read that he tried to get a job
42:17
Speaker 1: at Moroccan Airlines. Oded, if passengers hadn't been able to
42:21
Speaker 1: subdue him and correct the course of the plane... Would
42:26
Speaker 1: Israel have had a difficult decision to make to allow
42:28
Speaker 1: the plane to crash into an Israeli building or shoot
42:32
Speaker 1: it down? What would they have done?
42:34
Speaker 4: You know, Sherry, when you take a civilian aircraft and
42:42
Speaker 4: you transfer it into a missile, that means that you
42:46
Speaker 4: don't have any option, and the option is very, very brutal,
42:50
Speaker 4: but it's the only option.
42:52
Speaker 13: It would have shot the plane down.
42:54
Speaker 4: Absolutely. They would shut the plane down, and that was
42:59
Speaker 4: the necessary move to do, because there is no other alternative.
43:03
Speaker 4: The fact is that he planned to crash into Ben
43:07
Speaker 4: Gurion Airport while landing makes it even more, I would say,
43:14
Speaker 4: a precise decision that you have to shut down the
43:19
Speaker 4: airplane before you turn this strategy into a catastrophe.
43:26
Speaker 1: In terms of moving forward from here, I mean, what
43:29
Speaker 1: aviation and intelligence services, what changes to security processes need
43:33
Speaker 1: to be made? Just as many changes happened after 9-11.
43:39
Speaker 4: Exactly. After 9-11, there were tremendous changes in the safety
43:44
Speaker 4: and security of the airline, mainly focusing on the threats
43:49
Speaker 4: from the passengers. Nobody ever anticipated at that time, and
43:54
Speaker 4: even until now, although there were 10 incidents in 1982
43:57
Speaker 4: of airline crash by the pilots, nevertheless, it wasn't intended
44:04
Speaker 4: to have this internal threat, the threat from the inside
44:09
Speaker 4: the cockpit. This will definitely have to change the older
44:12
Speaker 4: perception of vetting aircraft pilots and not just the pilots,
44:17
Speaker 4: also the crew, also add some technology inside the cockpit
44:22
Speaker 4: that will enable certain acts to take place. And of course,
44:26
Speaker 4: what is needed immediately is sharing of information and creating
44:32
Speaker 4: some sort of international hub that such a guy with such,
44:38
Speaker 4: I would say, radicalization, which is overt completely, will not
44:42
Speaker 4: go under the radar.
44:43
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oded, such a pleasure to have you on the
44:47
Speaker 1: show again. And you gave us so much new information there.
44:50
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for your time. And of course,
44:53
Speaker 1: Oded Mossad's former head of Counterterrorism Division. Still to come,
44:57
Speaker 1: the backlash against Albanese when he tried to claim credit
45:00
Speaker 1: for coffee prices. That's with Tom Panos next. Welcome back. Well,
45:08
Speaker 1: small businesses are furious after Anthony Albanese claimed credit for
45:13
Speaker 1: a surcharge ban.
45:15
Speaker 11: Does the government actually want small business in Australia?
45:19
Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, everything they're doing is to try to
45:22
Speaker 4: crush small business everywhere.
45:24
Speaker 1: You know, every month I felt like more money being
45:26
Speaker 1: paid to the government, to the ATO. If it wasn't
45:30
Speaker 1: our BAS, it was our tax. If it wasn't workers' comp.
45:32
Speaker 1: A lot of the people that I employ have families,
45:35
Speaker 1: and so they're supporting their families through the business that
45:38
Speaker 1: I've created. And you're just making it hard for us
45:41
Speaker 1: to do that.
45:42
Speaker 8: Every single person I know is actually working a scheme
45:46
Speaker 8: as to how to escape Australia.
45:48
Speaker 15: What the.
45:53
Speaker 1: A question many people are asking. Joining me now, real
45:55
Speaker 1: estate expert Tom Pados. Tom, good to see you.
45:58
Speaker 15: Thanks for having me.
45:59
Speaker 1: I mean, this was actually a tax office decision. Albanese
46:03
Speaker 1: tried to take credit for it with a video about
46:05
Speaker 1: coffee prices, but it's backfired. Yeah, it has.
46:10
Speaker 15: The next morning I went to get my coffee and
46:12
Speaker 15: it had gone up by around 50 cents. So I
46:16
Speaker 15: really feel it. Like in a time right now, Shari,
46:19
Speaker 15: businesses are doing it so hard to have this extra layer.
46:22
Speaker 15: It's like never ending. And, yes, I know our Prime
46:26
Speaker 15: Minister thought he was going to take credit for something
46:29
Speaker 15: that's good.
46:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so he did that social media video and
46:32
Speaker 1: it was just massive because the reality is if a
46:35
Speaker 1: small business will have to absorb the cost, they're not
46:38
Speaker 1: going to absorb it. They'll pass it on to customers
46:39
Speaker 1: with a price rise.
46:41
Speaker 15: Absolutely. And at the end of the day, I'd actually
46:43
Speaker 15: turn around and say that's inflationary because they put the
46:46
Speaker 15: price up. People are spending more money on a coffee,
46:49
Speaker 15: more money on a sandwich, bacon and egg roll, whatever
46:52
Speaker 15: they're buying in cafes. That's probably driving inflation up as well.
46:57
Speaker 15: And I just think the timing of it could not
46:59
Speaker 15: have been worse. And I can tell you, merchant fees
47:03
Speaker 15: in a lot of businesses, including in a lot of
47:05
Speaker 15: real estate companies, they use it for cash flow because
47:08
Speaker 15: by the time you make a sale, you've got to
47:10
Speaker 15: pay your bills, they use credit cards to help manage
47:13
Speaker 15: their cash flow.
47:15
Speaker 1: Look, we're seeing this report that more than a quarter
47:18
Speaker 1: of homes up for sale have basically been sitting unsold
47:23
Speaker 1: for six months. I mean, just sitting there empty for
47:26
Speaker 1: six months.
47:27
Speaker 15: So think about that, Shari. That's 180 days. Think about it.
47:31
Speaker 15: You've got your home on the market, 180 days, week in,
47:34
Speaker 15: week out. And the main reason is that many of
47:37
Speaker 15: these people came onto the market. The market's been going down.
47:41
Speaker 15: They're chasing the market down. And it's not just a few.
47:44
Speaker 15: We're talking about a quarter of the properties. But I
47:47
Speaker 15: will say, the newer vendors that are coming onto the market,
47:50
Speaker 15: they've sort of more accepted these are the new prices.
47:54
Speaker 15: They know that they're going to sort of buy at
47:56
Speaker 15: a discounted price. So the seller-buyer is OK, but a
48:00
Speaker 15: lot of these people are anchored on old prices.
48:04
Speaker 1: Look, the government was trying to say this is just
48:06
Speaker 1: a temporary blip, it's cyclical, but actually this looks like
48:11
Speaker 1: this housing trend has settled in because auction clearance rates
48:15
Speaker 1: are now at a three-month low, interest rates, of course,
48:18
Speaker 1: at the 15-year high. So the housing crisis is deepening.
48:22
Speaker 15: Yes, so in my industry I'm saying to people we
48:26
Speaker 15: might have to accept that we operate as this is
48:28
Speaker 15: the new norm, you know, and we might have to
48:31
Speaker 15: hope the market doesn't get better because that we're just
48:33
Speaker 15: going to have to learn to get better because there's
48:35
Speaker 15: no circuit breaker on the horizon that's going to change it.
48:39
Speaker 15: In fact, there's talk of at least one more rate
48:42
Speaker 15: rise and that's creating total hesitancy with buyers.
48:45
Speaker 1: At least one. You were just saying to me, Tom,
48:48
Speaker 1: in the ad break, and you're an auctioneer, so for
48:51
Speaker 1: 30 years now you've been busy on Saturdays and you're
48:54
Speaker 1: just saying you're liking having your Saturdays back.
48:56
Speaker 15: Well, I'm liking it. And I'm feeling some of the
48:59
Speaker 15: other younger auctioneers who need to actually pay their rent
49:03
Speaker 15: or their mortgages, they're getting no auctions. They're not real
49:05
Speaker 15: estate agents. They're professional auctioneers. I did one auction on Saturday.
49:11
Speaker 15: That's spring. We're in the middle of spring. This should
49:14
Speaker 15: be a 10, 15-day auctions. Vendors are choosing to actually
49:20
Speaker 15: stay away because they're not confident that they're going to
49:22
Speaker 15: get their price, and I don't blame them.
49:25
Speaker 1: In terms of just the extra costs, I mean, we
49:28
Speaker 1: know there's been, you know, the 15 or 16 now
49:31
Speaker 1: rate hikes under the Albanese government. Obviously, there was that
49:34
Speaker 1: one cut as well. The story is that this has
49:41
Speaker 1: added $ 172, 000 in extra costs to the average home loan,
49:44
Speaker 1: not just extra mortgage interest, but other things as well.
49:48
Speaker 15: Yeah, so that cost is probably amortised, the life of
49:52
Speaker 15: the loan and how much more interest you're going to pay.
49:56
Speaker 15: And it is very concerning because that is not just
50:00
Speaker 15: for one week, one month. We're talking about years. If
50:04
Speaker 15: you're a young person and you've got one of these mortgages,
50:07
Speaker 15: we're talking about this going ongoing and it's not going
50:11
Speaker 15: to get better. We are in fact now, Shari, at
50:13
Speaker 15: the interest rates that we were 15 years ago, but
50:16
Speaker 15: it's worse because the loan 15 years ago was much
50:19
Speaker 15: smaller because property prices were a lot lower i'm saying
50:23
Speaker 15: to people this is as bad as the gfc because
50:25
Speaker 15: during the sorry this is as bad as the 91
50:28
Speaker 15: recession that keating said we had to have because interest
50:31
Speaker 15: rates were 17 they're much lower now but the loans
50:34
Speaker 15: then were only 80 000 yeah 100 000 now people
50:38
Speaker 15: are paying that on a million two million dollar loans
50:40
Speaker 15: so i think it is harder now.
50:43
Speaker 1: It's so worrying I mean, young people, should they be
50:46
Speaker 1: holding off or buying?
50:48
Speaker 15: Shari, look, I feel for them because property prices have dropped.
50:53
Speaker 15: There is good value out there, but they don't want
50:55
Speaker 15: to catch a falling knife. They're thinking to themselves, hang on,
50:59
Speaker 15: if I buy this for a million dollars and it
51:01
Speaker 15: drops to $ 900, 000, I'm going to be negative equity.
51:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big problem. Tom, thank you so much.
51:06
Speaker 1: Great to see you again.
51:07
Speaker 15: Thank you, Shari.
51:07
Speaker 1: Always good to chat.
51:08
Speaker 7: Thank you.
51:09
Speaker 1: All right. And thank you so much for your company
51:12
Speaker 1: this evening. I'll see you tomorrow at eight, another big show.
51:14
Speaker 1: And here's Paul Murray.