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Analyzing the Trial of Michael Jackson · Legally Brunette

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Legally Brunette. I
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: will be your host today Emily Simpson with Shane Shane.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: All Right, first of all, before we get into the
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: bulk of what we're going to talk about today, which
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: is the Verdict, the Michael Jackson Verdict, which happened back
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and five and is a new Netflix documentary,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I just want to do a headline. And you know
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I get my headlines, you know Instagram. Yes, And I'm
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: sure did you see this the Brazilian woman that the
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: tragedy in Brazil when she was what is it bungee jumping?
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: No, you told me about it. That's not really something
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: I try to look for.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: Well, I didn't try to look for it either, but ye,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: did I saw your search history?
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: We're looking for bungee jumping woman like something? No, but
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: I was saying searched for it?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: No, I'm how would I not to search for it
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: unless I heard of it.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
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  Speaker 1: A twenty one year old Brazilian woman named Maria Eduard
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: of Rodriguez de Fritis died on June thirteenth after being
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: launched off a one hundred thirty foot bridge during a
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: rope jump in sal Pallow without a rope attached to her.
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Harness authorities allege employees of the excursion company failed to
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: secure her safety equipment before that. They keep calling it
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: a jump.
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  Speaker 2: My understanding is they didn't even attach a bungee cord
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: to her. My limited understanding is she had harnessed. Did
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: everything went through the motion except for attaching the bungee
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: cord to her?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think there was a bungee cord.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Literally just threw her off, and they literally it's not
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: like she jumped. They threw her off.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: No, That's why I said when they keep talking about,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you know her, they failed to secure her safety equipment
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: before the jump. It was not a She did not jump, and.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: It's not safety equipment. It's like the bungee cord. It's like, well,
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: I think they said they equim would be like backup stuff.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I think they've failed to do both. I don't
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: think they attached the bungee cord or a safety cord.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Video footage of the incident shows the rope was lying
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: on the ground near Maria, but nothing was attached to
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: her when they threw her off. Maria's fiance was there
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: and witnessed her to her death. Two employees fled the scene.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine they just like saw it it happened,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: saw or hit the ground. They just fled.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: They just picked up their paycheck and ran.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I doubt they got a paycheck. I think they
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: just ran, but were found by police shortly after. Six
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: people were questioned by police, three men who worked for
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: the company. Their ages were twenty seven, thirty two, and
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: forty two. They were arrested on charges of reckless homicide.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Their lawyers maintained the men were experience operators with no
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: prior fatalities, but officials alleged the team lacked proper credentials
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: and authorization to operate at the site, and investigation into
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: liability is ongoing. You know, I would tell you that
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: is I would never want. First of all, I don't
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: want a bungee jump, period. I don't want to jump
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: off of anything. I'm scared of heights.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: That's not true.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: What are you talking about.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: Didn't you jump off like a sixty foot cliff once
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: into water?
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah the days, Yeah, that was on the show and
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I did, and I'll never do that again and knock
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: myself out. But I'm saying, bungee jump off of there's
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: no water blow when you bungee jump, I don't know,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: you have to make sure all your safety things work.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying I wouldn't want a bungee jump period.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: But then bungee jump in another country like Brazil, I
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: just don't think they have the regulations like we do
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: in the United States, where they're checking up on safety
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: equipment and they have to go through training and all
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: the things.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe, so even even with the safety stuff here, sometimes
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: there's incidents. So I mean even so imagine if there's
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: none I see, you know you're gonna be throwing people
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: off a clip without any safety harness.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: Why is that normal that they launched people off they
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I don't.
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  Speaker 2: Know, because I saw that image and I didn't know
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  Speaker 2: what it was and I didn't care to click on it.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: And then then later when you told me what was
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: going on, and then I saw that image again, I
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: was like, oh, is that what that is? Like they're
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: literally holding her up high like crowdsurfing, right, and then
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: they throw her.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, but I didn't know if that was a normal
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: protocol at that jump that people don't just I mean
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: normally with bungee jumping, you just jump off of something.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: But she lived long enough to make it to the hospital.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I think she was alive still.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Then, yeah, do you know how long the jump? Puss?
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: How far?
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: They said, like forty meters or something. Right, Oh, well,
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: all right, so we'll continue to follow that and see
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: what happens with the people that were arrested for reckless
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: homicide and what happens with that site. Let's move on
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: to the Michael Jackson The Verdict. I thought it was
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: interesting that Netflix released Michael Jackson The Verdict around the
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: same timeframe that the Michael biopic came out in theaters.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I don't think those coincidence.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think it was a coincidence either.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: He sounded like you were surprising.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: No, I'm not, but I'm saying I wonder if Netflix
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: knew that the Michael movie was coming out and then
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: thought we must also make a documentary absolutely and release
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: it at the same time.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I don't think it was coincidence.
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  Speaker 1: So the new Netflix documentary, it's called Michael Jackson The
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Verdict follows the investigation in two thousand and five trial
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: of Michael Jackson after he was accused of sexually abusing
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  Speaker 1: thirteen year old cancer survivor Gavin R. Viso. First of all,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I was thinking about where I was in two thousand
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: and five, because I did not follow this trial the
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: way I would follow it now in present day, the
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: way we follow or at least me the way I
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: follow True crime and the case Instagram back then, I know, right,
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  Speaker 1: But two thousand and five I was graduating from law school,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: so I don't know. I just I don't remember. I
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: didn't know much about the verdict other than he was
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: acquitted and then he went to trial and that he
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: was accused.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: Of the same amount of coverage. The amount of coverage was, like,
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It was court TV covering it, for example,
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: and then you had to it was you know, unedited.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: It's just hours and hours of footage, and then you'd
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: come home in the evening, maybe try on the TV
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: and get caught up with some new segment that might
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: tell you what happened that day. Right, it was the
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: coverage back then.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not as easily at your fingertips like it
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: is now, the way you can look out on your
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: phone phone. Right, the documentary explores how the allegations grew
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: after Michael's controversial documentary interview with Martin Basher and the
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: chaotic criminal trial that followed. First of all, this Martin Basher,
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: this is where it all comes from. Martin Basher made
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: a documentary about Michael Jackson.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Just about Michael Jackson.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was called Like Living with Michael Jackson.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: He goes in the Vegas Story and he buys everything.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he points, He's like I have that in that,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: No on that and that.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Man, it's all these like random things yea that no
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: one wants.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: The reason Michael Jackson wanted to do the documentary or
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: the interview with him is because he did a documentary
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: style interview with Princess Diana, Okay, And so Michael Jackson
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: clearly or.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: His team he thought that was like the high bar
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  Speaker 2: of a Yeah, he journalistic documentary.
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  Speaker 1: He did not do his due diligence in regard to
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Martin Basher because Martin Basher procured that interview with Princess
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Diana by fraud. He actually manipulated documents that looked like
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: people employees and family members of her family were receiving
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: payouts from the press. To give information about her, and
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  Speaker 1: so he used that as an enticement and to build
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  Speaker 1: a rapport with her, like I have this information, I'm
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  Speaker 1: sharing it with you, and these people are all selling
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  Speaker 1: you out, you know, they're taking the money. No, he
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: falsified documents that made it look like payments were being
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: made to these people to get information about her. And
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: then I believe she trusted him because she felt like
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: he was giving her inside information that she wasn't aware of.
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  Speaker 1: So then she agreed to do this interview with him.
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  Speaker 1: And then it was learned later that that was all fraudulent,
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  Speaker 1: that he fraudulently manipulated these documents and that that wasn't
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  Speaker 1: true make.
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  Speaker 2: It look like he was looking out for her or
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  Speaker 2: he was exposing people.
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  Speaker 1: Right. I don't think Michael Jackson knew that, because I
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: don't think he ever would have won Martin Basher to
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  Speaker 1: do the documentary and sell you out right for a buck.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And let's be honest, the whole catalyst of his two
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: thousand and five trial is because of the documentary that
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Martin Basheer did on him. That air sparked it. That
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: sparked it because at the end of the documentary, you know,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: they bring out the Gavin Arviiso, the thirteen year old
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  Speaker 1: with the cancer, and Michael Jackson talks about how they're
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: so close, they're holding hands, they're sitting on the couch together,
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  Speaker 1: and that they sleep in the same bedroom together and
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: share a bed. And then Martin Basheer obviously included that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: in the documentary and then they aired it publicly and
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: millions of people watched it.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: And then you think he got lucky with that or
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: do you think he knew that that was something happening
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: and he kind of.
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  Speaker 1: I think he was hoping that there was something scandalous
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  Speaker 1: and that he was probably he was looking for something,
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  Speaker 1: and I think Michael Jackson was just trying to show
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  Speaker 1: his human side, his humanity showing that he does with Oprah.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: Was that before, Remember he did that with Oprah. He
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: did like an hour you know special in one evening
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: where he walked her around the ranch and that was
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: very much an inside look at Michael Jackson's house. That
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: was many years prior. I think, so then he wanted
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: to do something similar again, right like show people himself.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think he wanted to and I think the
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: press was always hounding him, calling him wacko jacko and
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: making fun of everything he did. They were hard on him,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: The press was hard on him. People were yeah, and
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  Speaker 1: I think he wanted to show another side, and show
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  Speaker 1: his humans side, and show all the good that he does.
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: And then it did nothing except to me, and he died.
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  Speaker 1: Laphila all right, Let's start in nineteen ninety three, because
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: this is when the first accusation came out. This was
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: when Michael Jackson was accused of molesting Jordan Chandler. Now
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: in the documentary towards I think it's more towards the end,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: they do make reference to this nineteen ninety three incident.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: Jordan reportedly describes markings on Michael's body his genet talia,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: leading investigators to obtain a warrant to photograph his body.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: The Chandler family later settles with him for around twenty
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: three million. The allegations permanently follow Michael's public image and
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: become a major reference point even years later. I also
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: read I don't know how true this is. I read
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: there's also an affidavit somewhere. I read reference to this
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: that the child made allegations as to what Michael Jackson's
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: you know, Genitalia looked like. But then I was reading
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: a lot that when he died in two thousand and nine,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: his autopsy did not match what the child had said.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: So again I'm left questioning a lot of it.
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  Speaker 2: But twenty three million. Twenty three million means there was
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: something there you think doesn't missile. I'm not saying criminal,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: but there was enough evidence to look bad, and he
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: didn't want to show it.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I know, let's say there's it was going to surface
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: that the child did sleep in his bed and saw
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Michael Jackson naked once, and let's say it was by accident,
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: and let's say Michael Jackson was squeaky clean and he
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: really was just trying to host and entertain children for
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: that sake. But if that surface, that would look bad,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: worse than he was already looking to the public. So
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: he settled for twenty three million, because I remember Elon
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Musk had an accusation made against him and he seld
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: for five hundred grand. He was rough hundreds of billions
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: at the time. Five hundred grand is if they took
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: that and ran from a mega, mega billionaire, that means
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: there was nothing there, and he just said here take
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: this and leave me alone. A twenty three million from
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: a guy that was only worth probably a couple hundred million.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know, because then later on, I mean, we're
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: going to talk about more more settlements, So I don't know.
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  Speaker 2: Further my point, something is there that's enough.
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. I refused to believe. All right, he's
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: a king of pop lad. He couldn't have done it. No.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Early in the two thousands, Javin Arviso is battling cancer
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: when he meets Michael Jackson. Michael takes Gavin and his
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: family to Neverland Ranch and they all become very close.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: Gavin's family reportedly struggles financially but refuses to sell stories
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: about Michael. Then we get to two thousand and two.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: This is Martin Bascher's documentary. We talked a little bit
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: about Martin Bascher already. Michael agrees to film a documentary
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: with Martin Basheer, who became famous after interviewing Princess Diana.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: Cameras follow Michael through his daily life, including his time
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: with a boy named Gavin. Gavin appears frequently in the documentary,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: recounting his experiences with Michael, and Michael openly admits that
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: he shares his bed with children, but insists there's nothing
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: sexual about it. Michael's behavior in the documentary, specifically his
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: scenes with Gavin, shocks many viewers and reignites discussion about
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: the nineteen ninety three accusations. Here's my question. He's accused
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: back in nineteen ninety three of molesting a young boy,
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: settles for twenty three million. Clearly that was difficult for
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: him to go through. What less and did you not
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: take away from that?
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: You can get out of trouble. I have money. I'll
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: just get out of trouble well.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: And I don't understand the people around him. You're talking
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: about the most famous man in the world that has
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: a ton of money and a ton of publicity, and
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: everybody knows where he is at all times and what
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: he's doing, and the fact that he doesn't have more
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: people around him saying, maybe that's not a good idea.
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Maybe you shouldn't bring him into your sc adults. Maybe
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: you shouldn't hold his hand or talk about how you like.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: I don't understand where there's no advisement that is saying, Michael,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: maybe there was, I don't know.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I don't Maybe there wasn't he didn't listen.
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and three, this is after this documentary
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: comes out, the Martin Bischier documentary, Gavin is identified by
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: the public. Media outlets identify the boy in the documentary
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: as Gavin Arviso, and the public begins comparing Gavin's situation
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: to the earlier situation with Jordan Chandler. Michael hires lawyers
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: and private investigators to follow the Rviso family as scrutiny
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: from the public increases, and they recruit the Arvizo family
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: to stay at Neverland so that they're protected from the media.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I do believe that he probably wanted to do damage
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: control at this point because the media is in a
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: frenzy after this documentary, right, and they want to find
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: this boy, and they want to find his family. I'm
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: sure everybody's scrambling to find him first to do an interviews.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Already prety guilty now.
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Right, And I would assume the fact that Michael Jackson
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: is like, no, you should hide out here at Neverland.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: I'm sure his intentions were good as to like, let's
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: get you protected. He also has him I don't know
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: if it's his direction or his attorney's direction, probably his
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: attorney's direction, that they have the family with Gavin record
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: a video talking about how Michael has been nothing but
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: kind to them and supportive, and that you know, I mean,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: they want to get their building evidence right, right. Janet,
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: this is the mother allegedly tells a family friend that
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: they are listening to everything we say. She says the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: family wanted to leave Neverland but felt trapped. Gavin is
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: eventually interviewed by authorities and child psychologists, and he accuses
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson of sexual abuse. Gavin tells investigators specific details
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: and recalls a black briefcase which contained pornography. I don't know.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: This is the way I look at this, Okay. They
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: were perfectly happy to take his money to go on trips,
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: to stay at Neverland, and to go on tour, to
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: partake in everything, to be there all the time. Then
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: once there's a media frenzy and they have people reaching
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: out constantly and trying to find them, all of a sudden,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: the narrative flips. I also think that the narrative with
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: this family flipped because I think Michael Jackson probably tried
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: to separate himself from this family and thought I need
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: to disassociate with this, and I think they didn't like that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: They probably weren't getting the funding or the friendliness, or
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the tours or.
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: The wouldn't that make you want to go to the
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: media though, to get back in front of the camera.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Well, they do, because shortly after that, I'm saying, one minute,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: they're recording a video saying that he's been nothing but
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: kind and generous and that they love him so much
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: and he's like a dad to them, and he's done
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: all these amazing things. And then I think Michael Jackson
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: tried to disassociate from them because of these allegations in
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the documentary. And then when they're not getting the financial
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: support or all the things again from him, that's when
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: the narrative flips and all of a sudden, he molested Gavin,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: is what Gavin claims. So in November of two thousand
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and three, they get a search warrant for the Neverland Ranch.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: The Santa Barbara County Investigators execute a search warrant at
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: Neverland Ranch as part of the investigation into the allegations
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: of child molestation. Investigators reportedly locate the black briefcase that
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Gavin had described. It contains pornography just like he claimed.
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: Now that bothered me, so I did some more research
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: on it. It was a black briefcase. It wasn't Michael's bedroom.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: It was locked away in a closet. The kids, however,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: had access to his room and they there was a
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: keypad on his room and the kids knew how to
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: enter and exit.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was the point of the keypad. I had access.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know. But the kids could come and go out.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: The kids could come and go freely. Also, just one
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: other further point. You can take this however you want.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: The pornography that was found in the black briefcase was
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: not child pornography. It was adult pornography.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: So it's still inappropriate for kids.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: To be it is. But here's here's what I'm saying.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to see both sides of this. Did the
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: kids find it because they had access to go in
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: and out of his home and his bedroom? And did
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: they Are they young kids that found pornography and looked
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: at it.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Like he didn't allow them to have access to it,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: nor did he care to show it to them?
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: They found it on.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Their own right? Or did they know about it because
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: he showed them that's what I'm saying. We'll never know.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: So the kids always had the code to the door
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: to get into his bedroom and into private I guess
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: areas of the home. But the mom did well, she
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: claims she did not know. I don't.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So the parents say they didn't have the keypad.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Code, Yeah, but the kids did well.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: That's not that far fetch, because did the parents ever
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: stay at the house to need the keypad? Like if
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: the kids are there all the time and playing and
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: this and that, and they have access to things, but
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the parents aren't there. They just drop them off, pick
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: them up, like, I don't know. Lots of things that happen.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: No, I think the parents stay. I think it's such
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: a huge estate that they literally stay there all the
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: time and use all of his fancy things and they
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: are living their life. That's what I think. Police issue
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: and arrests weren't for Michael. Michael is in Las Vegas
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: during this search of Neverland, and rumors spread rapidly through
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: the media. Reports start to circulate alleging that Michael Jackson
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: is partying in Vegas with German teenage boys. I don't
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: know this allegation.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: How long are you going to claim that.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That sounded ridiculous to me. I was like,
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: what this guy, No, I'm sorry. The media was always
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: hounding him. The media was always after him. The media
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: was always trying to make him out to be a freak.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I believe that, while his Neverland
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: ranch is being raided for because of child molestation charges
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: or allegations, that he said I'm going to go to
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Vegas and drink and I'm going to hang out with
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: young German boys. That sounds ridiculous to me. Michael finally
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: negotiates a voluntary surrender with prosecutors and he flies back
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: to California, has taken into custody in handcuffs. Crowds of
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: fans gather outside the courthouse in support of him, and
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Michael even stands on top of an suv outside the
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: courtroom to wave to his fans. I do remember that scene.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't follow the trial back in two thousand and five.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I didn't check in on it daily. I don't really
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: know the ends and outs of the trial, but I
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: do remember the the vision, or just theual, the visual
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: of him climbing on top of the suv and greeting
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the fans and them.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Did he have kids at this point?
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so he did.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: When did he hang him outside the window and covered
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: up in.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: A rag that whatever blanket? I think. I don't remember that.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Was that pre uh pre pedophilia or posts?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I probably pre two thousand and four.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: He prepares for trial. Michael's family publicly defends him, and
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: interviews and friends and former associates are questioned about their
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: experiences at Neverland. Former associate Vincent Amen, who was in
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: the documentary, discovered suspicious magazines allegedly connected to Michael and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: his longtime assistant named Frank Magazines. All right, this part
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: of the documentary, I was like, what now, what is
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: going on? Okay, there is this guy named Vincent. They
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: interview him in the documentary. He only worked for Michael
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Jackson for like a year, it was like two thousand
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: and two to two thousand and three. He knew Frank Cassie.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: He went by like Frank something else, but he's from
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: the Cassio family. Frank Cassio knew Michael Jackson from the
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: time he was very very young, and he worked his
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: way up through the ranks and ended up being like
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: a personal assistant to Michael Jackson and was very very
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: close to him. This guy that they interview, vincent Amon,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: says during this interview in the documentary that Frank came
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: to him and gave him like a Nike Duffel bag
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and said that he cleaned out things from This is
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: when Neverland's being raided. And he says that he gives
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: him this bag and says, you have to hide this stuff.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: You know, it's things from Neverland, and I don't want
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: the police to find it, so you take it and
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: you know, get rid of it or whatever. So supposedly
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: he makes a video recording of going through the bag
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: and there's a magazine inside that has like young boys
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: depicted in it, and then there's a section in the
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: back where you can order videos and they're circled with
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: a black marker. Here's my how you going to get
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: out of this way?
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: He claims that he confronted Frank about it, like what
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: is this and Frank said, oh, that was a phase
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: that Michael and I went through. We don't do that anymore.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Here's here's my takeaway. If you really have evidence in
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: your home that is damaging. Would you put it in
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: a bag and hand it to a friend and tell
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: them to get rid of it. That doesn't make any sense.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. It was this child pornography.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: It wasn't considered I don't know if it was. I
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: don't remember exactly if it was. It was just young
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: I think it was like young boys. There were also
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: two books that were found at Neverland that also had
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: young boys in them that were it was like borderline.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: It wasn't considered pornography. It was more considered art. It
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: wasn't illegal, but it was young boys. My question is,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: if you really have evidence in your home that is
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: damaging and you want to get rid of it, why
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: would you put it in a bag and hand it
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: to someone and trust that person is.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Going like, oh, hey, in case you didn't know, Michael's
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: kind of a creep, here's the evidence, please hide it. Yeah,
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: that's pretty much what happened.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and it doesn't make any sense because then
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: that guy goes through it and records it and then
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: claims that there's this evidence inside the recording in the
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: documentary they did, but it was really hard to see
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: because I don't know.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is uh, oh, yeah, this is photography
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: back then in.
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: Two thousand and four or something, so I assume it's
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: not an iPhone, right, he's got like a camcorder that
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: he's like recording with. I don't know. It just to me,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: it just doesn't make sense if I want to get
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: rid of evidence, I'm not going to hand it off
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: to someone.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: I've only known that the evidence was cooked, like it
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: was I planted by this guy that had been working
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: there for the Jacksons forever.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just saying you were.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: You know what bothered me about this case. What during
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the time was all the fans outside the courthouse, not
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: just out there to kind of be a part of
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: it and see what's going on, but like the ones
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: that are pretty much insistent that he couldn't be a
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: criminal because he's the king of pop and it's like,
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: that's not a defense. No, I know it also kind
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: of leaning towards that right now.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Well, I just am offering an alternative perspective. But you know,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I agree because I was always so bothered. But I
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: remember when we talked about Wade Wilson and all those
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: women that were convinced that he was innocent because he
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: was just good looking, you know. It was like, how
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: could he do He's good looking And it had nothing
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: to do with facts. It just had to do with
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: the fact that he was good looking. However, Michael Jackson
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: was acquitted at the end of the day on all charges.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: So anyway, all right, I'll just throw that out there,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: all right.
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: In the documentary, the jaybody wasn't found innocent. Yes, he
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: was found not guilty.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: He was found not guilty. I agree he was found
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: not guilty.
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: Legally, there wasn't enough evidence to charge it. The jury
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: find him guilty.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: The jury did not think so, yes.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: And they probably had a few fans on the jury.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: That's all they need.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: Well, they do start out by saying that in the
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: beginning of the trial, the first thing the prosecution did
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: was show the documentary that Martin Bisheer made and it
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: had a lot of Michael Jackson music in it, and
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: that they were all just they were all just boffing
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: along to it. So I don't know if the prosecutor
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: because that was such a good idea, because I think
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: you're just reminded of, like, I'll never forget whatever more
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: talented he is.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know why, but I asked my dad once,
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: like when I was a kid. I said, oh, like
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: you think, ohja, we'll go to jail or something like that,
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: and he said no. I said why and he goes
• 25:13
  Speaker 2: because all you need is one football fan on that
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: jury and that's it. And that's always the case.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: So in the documentary, the Jackson family lawyer, his name's
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Brian Oxman frequently speaks on the case. Something that was
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: not mentioned in the documentary about Brian Oxman was that
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: his California state bar records show that his licensed status
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: as disbarred. A disciplinary proceedings found that Oxman had mixed
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: personal and client funds and a trust account, used the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: account to hide assets from creditors, and failed to cooperate
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: with investigators, and did not report a judicial sanction as
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: required under professional conduct rules. Let's go back to Gavin
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Orbiso and his family. That's the child that the thirteen
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: year old that claim that he molested him. This is
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: in two thousand and four or five ish. They do show,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: they do show a little bit. I believe in the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: end of the documentary that the family and the mother
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: specifically had been had been charged with welfare fraud. I
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: believe and she had also made an accusation. I believe
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: she was arrested or detained outside. I think it was
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: a JC Penny right outside of JC Penny for I
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: believe shoplifting. But then she claimed that whoever detained her
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her or something, and then they ended up
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: settling for like one hundred and fifty thousand. Then she
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: did not disclose that she got paid one hundred and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: fifty thousand and she was on welfare, so then that
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: was welfare fraud. Also Chris Tucker and they left this
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: part out of the Netflix documentary.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Somehow they found their way to the Neverland ranch.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: How did they That's what I'm saying these That's what
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I'm saying. I tell those people find him well, and
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: how does he not vet people better? That's the part
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I don't understand. They found all these things about the
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: family after, you know, he made the allegations against Michael.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: I believe Michael had a conversation with his attorney and said,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: dig up the dirt on this family because they need
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: it as a defense, right, which was a smart thing
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: to do. But I'm saying, in what world were people
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: not looking into these people that are inside his home,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: traveling with him, going in and out of his bedroom,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: taking advantage of him. He's buying them you know who
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: knows what, and taking him on tour. Why are you
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: not vetting them prior? Why are you digging into them
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: after the fact after the allegations are made. Also, one
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: more thing, Chris Tucker, you know the actor Chris Tucker.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: He also testified. They didn't show this in the documentary,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: but he testified that he also had experience with the
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: same child, Gavin r Viso, who had reached out to
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: him and had used the whole cancer that he did
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: have cancer, so it's not a cancer scale.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: He does have cancer.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Well, But Chris Tucker testified that he found Gab to
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: be extremely cunning for his age, and that he was
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: consistently reaching out and wanting money and trips and things
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: from Chris Tucker. So I think the defense did a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: good job of establishing that this family are opportunist and
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: had tried everything possible to get money and free trips
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and things from celebrities.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: And so now here's just another one of those times.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: And one more fun fact. So the mother's name Gavin,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Bring on the fund. This is a fun fact. Gavin
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Arvisa's mother is named Janet. She ended up divorcing her husband,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: his father. I believe there's some abuse, allegations domestic violence.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: They end up divorcing. She remarries a man whose last
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: name is Jackson. So her current name is Janet Jackson.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Janet Jackson.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Her name is Janet Jackson, all right. In two thousand
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: and five, the trial begins. Fans and media outlets from
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: around the world gather outside the courthouse every single day,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: and Michael regularly rolls his car windows down to wave
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: to his supporters, despite reported death threats. Michael's lead defense
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: attorney is Thomas Mezzero, an amazing attorney. By the way,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: I was impressed just from a little bit I saw
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: in the documentary was he was a good criminal defense attorney.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: He was originally represented by Mark Geragos and Benjamin Braffman,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: but they were replaced. The lead prosecutor was Santa Barbara
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: County District Attorney Thomas Snettin Junior, and cameras were banned
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: from the courtroom. On day two of the trial, Martin Basher,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: the documentary creator, becomes the prosecution's first major witness. Prosecutors
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: play the full documentary for the jury, and Michael's music
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that was used throughout the film had the whole courtroom dancing.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: I told you that the juries were just enjoying the show,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and I think even the prosecutors said that he couldn't
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: stop like tapping his foot to it. Yeah, I mean,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: it's Michael Jackson Trial. Day six and seven. Gavin's brother,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Star Rviso, takes the stand. Starr claims that the pornography
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: was shown to them at Neverland. The defense shows Star
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: a pornographic magazine and he claims that that is the
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: same one that Michael showed him. Mezzo proves that it
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: is not because it was published at a much later date.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: That was so smart, a Mezzuro, that was such a
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: good criminal defense move.
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you say.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: He holds up a magazine and he's like, is this
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the magazine that Michael Jackson showed you? And the kid's like, yeah,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: that was it, and he's probably like are you sure?
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: How sure? Are you? Are you one hundred percent sure? Yes,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: that's it. That's what he showed me. And then he goes,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: oh really because this was just published.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, brilliant.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: Starr also claims that he witnessed Michael Jackson. Molest Gavin
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Mezzo points out that Michael's bedroom has a bell at
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: the front door so he can hear when someone walks in,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: which would prevent him from being accidentally caught touching. Gabon
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: Stars testimony is viewed as a major win for the defense.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: I think Mesro did such a good job that anytime
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: the prosecution put on a witness, I think he just
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: destroyed them. He destroyed their credibility. He did the same
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: thing with them.
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: Anyone else famous or Gergos is always like everwhere what
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: about him?
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I believe they made mentioned that he was pretty much
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: like the top dog, but I don't remember whatever those are.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Not like Hollywood's attorney, like Geragosa is. He's always like
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: on every single hot.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Kase Maybe so before trial day nine, Michael hurts himself
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the night before on one of the biggest days at trial,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: when Gavin Arviso is going to take the stand. So
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: the night before Gavin Arviso, the thirteen year old takes
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: the stand, Michael Jackson ends up at the er that night.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: Michael asks his security guard to take him to the hospital,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: and Michael continues to request drugs from the doctors to
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: help with pain. He's at the hospital. The trial starts
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: that day. Gavin Arviso is going to testify. The judge says,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: where's Michael Jackson, And his defense attorney's like, he's not here.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: He's in the hospital, got hurt and he asked for
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: you know, a recess continuance whatever. And the judge says,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: he has one hour to get here where I'm going
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: to hold him in contempt. So Michael Jackson, because this
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: is the key witness, right, Michael Jackson leaves the hospital
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: in a motorcade. He's got his pajamas on, in a
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: mask on.
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: I think, right, I don't remember he was wearing masks
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: before anyone wore masks.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but then this motorcad's going, you know, one hundred
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: miles an hour down the freeway. It reminded me of
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: OJ when he was in the Bronco and they were
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: all following him on the freeway. Because now you've got
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: all the media following him from the hospital back to
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: the courthouse. Right, he shows up and he walks into
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: the courthouse, but he's in like pajamas in a robe,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: and I think, I don't know if this was on
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: purpose or if it just worked out well. But he
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: looks sad.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Right for a listeners. So he's in pajama pants.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: I think he put a jacket on.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: He tried to put a jacket on, and he has
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: like flowers off.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: It's a parasol. What a parasol? I'm just it's just
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a fancy way to say an umbrella because he's you're
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: like in Paris and you have like a little umbrella
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: to keep this on out of your face.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, so a parasol. Yeah, And what's that in his hand?
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: He's got like he's got like voodoo stuff in his
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: hand or a fishing.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Pole or something. I don't know, but I just think
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: him showing up the day that Gavin Arvizo is going
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: to testify against him, looking he.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Went to the hospital and pajamas, like I didn't go
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: to doctors came to that guy. You know what doctors
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: he was at.
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: The hospital because they they really know.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: But I'm saying he has doctors come to him. So
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: he said, no, I have to go to the hospital
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: and get admitted. So the key witness can't testify tomorrow
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: because if he was just at home and it's like Oh,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: his doctor's at home comforting him. That wouldn't fly.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: News coverage explodes, with many questioning whether Michael was truly
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: sick or trying to delay the trial and the testimony.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: Michael eventually arrives late to court, wearing pajamas and appearing
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: visibly weak. Critics accuse him of playing the victim and
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: putting on a performance for sympathy. Gavin Arvizo takes the
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: stand and says Michael molested him twice. He also claims
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Michael gave him alcohol, which he called Jesus juice. I
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: don't believe that either. I just don't picture Michael Jackson
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: calling alcohol Jesus juice.
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds corny.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I just don't like it. Just it just I don't know.
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: That doesn't sit well with me. That's just my personal
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: takeaway from that. Mezzuro cross examines Gavin aggressively, and Gavin
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: responds with aggression. In turn, his behavior does not bode
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: well for the prosecution, and their star witness becomes a
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: win for the defense. Mezzuro gets him all messed up
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: and he gets aggressive, and I don't and his testimony
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't go over very well. I don't I would think
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the jury didn't find him believable. Prosecutor Ron Zonin attempts
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: to find additional accusers as the trial goes on, and
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: former Neverland employees testify that Michael lured boys to the ranch.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: Jason Francia claims Jackson abused him as a child, and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: prosecutors want to portray Michael as a serial pedophile. You
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: know he had. There were several employees of Michael Jackson
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: that testified against him, saying that they saw all these things.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: But then I know on the defense on cross Mesro
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: destroyed all of them because they were all disgruntled employees
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: that were fired at some point or were let go
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: at some point.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Oh and we're current employees.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: I don't believe. So I believe they were all former employees.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Do you have any young girls or was it always boys?
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: It was always boys that made the allegations. But we're
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: gonna get to at the end. There is a family
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: currently suing the estate here in twenty twenty six, and
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: one of the victims is a girl. And then that
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: threw me off too, So I don't find that believable anyway,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: It's not helping me. No this I'm going to get to.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I don't believe them either. They already we'll get to
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that later. I don't believe them at all.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying he's guilty, yeah, but he's more guilty
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: than you say he is, definitely. I mean there's all
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: this evidence that's very questionable. I mean, like it definitely
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: brings you to question what the heck is going on
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: there here, and you're not buying it. No, but you'll
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: see a little fuzzy picture of someone that says it's Bigfoot,
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: and you say Bigfoot exists, it's real.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just trying to make sense.
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: Okay, here's my takeaway with Michael Jackson. I do I
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: think that he did some questionable, weird things, Yes, because
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: I think that he is psychologically stunted. His growth was
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: psychologically stunted at ten years old because of what he
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: went through as a child. He never had a childhood.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: His dad forced him to work seeing bring in money,
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: be the star from a very very young age. He
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: had no childhood. I think he's wanting to be friends
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: with kids of that age is because mentally he is
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: of that age. I don't think he was ever allowed
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: to progress or grow and become psychologically older. I don't
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: think he has a sexual attraction to young boys. I
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: think he likes to hang out with young boys because
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: that's where he that's that's where he is.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, now explain all the other stuff. Then, is it
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: all fabricated?
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: I do. I do think it's fabricated. I think you're
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: talking about a man who has such enormous wealth and
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: is so famous that everybody is happy to be around
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: him and take advantage of him and go places and
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: live at Neverland, and go on private jets and go
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: on to and the minute that it's not working out
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: for them or they realize that they can get a payout,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: they jump on it and they get millions of dollars.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: And I think people know that they can make allegations
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: because of the fact that he does like to hang
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: out with young boys. I mean mccullay Culkin testified at trial.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: They didn't show his testimony or go into detail about
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: his testimony, but he said that he never ever did
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: anything sexual wrong, anything ever around him near him, to him,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: or to any of the other boys that were around.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: So I don't know. Again, best is my takeaway. June
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: Chandler is Jordan Chandler's mother. She testified about the nineteen
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: ninety three allegations. She says Michael cried when she didn't
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: allow Jordan to sleep in his room, so she finally
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: gave in. She says Michael gave her a Cartier bracelet,
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: making her feel like she had sold her son, and
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: she reveals that she has not seen Jordan in years
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: and the relationship was damaged because of this. I don't
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: know she I don't know if that helped her her.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I just felt badly that the mother
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: and son didn't have a relationship anymore.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: So, Yeah, Corey Feldman, I was just looking up because
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: I remember, Corey Feldman, when you mentioned McCaulay Culkin, he
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: too defended Michael Jackson, at least against his own personal interactions.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: I don't know that he testified about anything else, but
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: his own personal actions were the same as bookcaulay Culkin,
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: which is nothing, we just hung out.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean that's the difference to me. That's
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: my takeaway is when you talk about these kids that
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: were there, that were that age and they say nothing
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: ever happened. They're not in need of money from him,
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: and they're famous in their own right, and they have
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: money in their own right.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: And Corey Filman, if I remember it, he called a
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: lot of people out in Hollywood like they're all sick,
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: or he didn't say they're all sick, but he was
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: claiming that there was a lot of inappropriate stuff going
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: on with kids, you know, trafficking or abusing or even molested,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: like he was calling. He would call it out. So
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: he's not one to not call it out if it
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: happened right.
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: Trial Day twenty nine, Janet or Viso, Gavin's mother testifies.
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: Janet says she and her children were held against their
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: will at Neverland, and she claims Michael molested Gavin. The
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: defense attacks the family's credibility. Now, the a lot of
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: the original charges against Michael Jackson two thousand and five
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: was the child molestation charges, but there was also conspiracy charges,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: and I didn't understand the conspiracy. I think the jury
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: was also confused too, but the conspiracy I looked more
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: into it. The conspiracy charges where the prosecution was alleging
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: that he was holding this family hostage and not allowing
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: them to leave Neverland, and that in order to do
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: that he had associates that were also co conspirators and this,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: but they were unindicted co conspirators, meaning like the prosecution
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: wasn't interested, right, they were just going to go after
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. Now, the defense easily showed that they weren't
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: being held hostage at Neverland because I believe there was
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: a type of law where you had to sign in
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: and out or keep track of who comes and goes.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: And it showed that they left the property multiple times
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: answering question right and would go back of their own
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: free will. So I don't I think is it.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: How different would it be if all that occurred today
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: in twenty twenty five instead of two thousand and five?
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: I mean because of the just the digital digitals. Yeah,
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: even like where the phones are, you know, and I'm
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: sure you would have had more cameras on the ranch.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: You know, his his Google search history right right?
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Okay? I was. I was a little nervous when I
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: was Google searching this case because we always talk about
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: Google searches, and here I am, I'm like, do child
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: molesters usually like same research for a podcast? And then
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: I was like, this seems weird. Anyway, I'm doing these
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: Google searches and I start to think about how you
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: and I talk about Google searches and what they show
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: about people in their you know, men's raya, what's going
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: on in their mind. And I'm here, I am just
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: doing Google searches about child conversation.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Searches on killing your husband, and then something's going to
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: happen to me and then they're going to look into it.
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: No, because listen, if I'm going to Google search killing husbands,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure I do it on the
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: day that we have a podcast about killing husbands, so
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: that I can say.
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: I was just now recorded as evidence against it for premeditation, all.
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: Right, Brian Oxman. Then remember this is the family attorney
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: reveals that Janet had previously sued J. C. Penny because
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: the security guard had allegedly molested her, so he so
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: he probably detains her. And then she's like, oh, he
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: touched me and.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Appropriately investigator and I detained women. I didn't bust any
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: of them.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: No, did you get any molestation charges against her?
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: If I? If I, if I brought into custody of female,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: then I immediately went and got a target female employee
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: to come sit with me. Right, and the entire room
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: is on.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Camera, right, But I'm saying I think he detained her
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: in like a parking lot or something. So I don't know.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know what happened.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: I don't know. We weren't allowed to for Target. You're
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: not allowed to go outside the front doors and detain someone.
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: If they make it past the front door, you have
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: to let him go.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: Now you just told people, Oh yeah, well, I didn't
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: say that the scars followed that role.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: But he just reminded me when he said jac Penny
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: what he followed her?
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: All that in the party?
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: Lit I detained her where like behind a car.
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: I thought that I had read that he detained her
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: in a party. I could be wrong about that. I
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: don't know. But Brian Oxman, this is the family attorney
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: claims what really happened is one of her sons shoplifted
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: and she turned it around to benefit herself and her family.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Defense lawyers claim the family are professional scammers. Then Debbie
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Row testifies, do you know Debbie Row? Do you know
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: who Debbie Row is?
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: It's the love of his life, isn't that the mother
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: of his children?
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: The mother of his children? And I mean she was
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: like the housekeeper or something, right, I don't know. I okay,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: I just.
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: Bet he never They never touched each other.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I doubt right, Okay, well didn't, didn't Michael
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Jackson married Priscilla, Yes, and like make on stage on
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: the end, Yes, and it was like all it was awkward. Yes,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: I think because you know, his dad was the her
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: dad's the king of Rock and he's the king of
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: pop so you know, it only makes sense. It's royalty,
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: they like said Mary, within their lineage. I tried to
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: this information. It is not out there. I don't know
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: if I wanted to know today. No, I wanted to know.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: Biologically his three children like who they don't look like him.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm not saying I mean, I understand there's all
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: types of different families. So it's not that he's not
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: their father, he's their fascio. I'm just saying from a.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: You just want to know if they slept together.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Well, no, I don't want to know. I don't think
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: they slept together. I want to know if Debbie rou
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: is genetically the mother, which I don't know if she is.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I don't think he's biologically or genetically the father. I
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: think maybe they just did you know, like some type
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: of you know, in vitro and then she was the
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: oh carrier, Yeah, she was the carrier. Oh, I don't know.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: And I tried to find the information and you can't
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: really find it. So if anybody knows, please dm me
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: because I really need to know.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: The options are it's both their children biologically, right, that's
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: an option. An option is it's just hers and somehow
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: she got impregnated right and carried him. The other one
• 45:01
  Speaker 2: is that it belongs to someone else and it was
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: implanted in her.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I mean, I mean you and I use
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: my sister a gestational carrier.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: So what do you think it is?
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm just saying, based upon the way his children look,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: it does not look like they are genetically her or him.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: So I was thinking maybe they, I mean, maybe he
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: has He can do whatever he wants. He has multitudes
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. I'm saying he could have just
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: picked a female egg and a male donor.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Finances wouldn't stop him from being able to do that, right.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: I'm just saying I would just like to know for
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: my own personal I just want to know genetically, but
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously familial wise, he's the dad. They love him,
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: that's his children. But I just want to know. I
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: just want to know the details. I want to know.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: They weren't married. They didn't seem to have a relationship,
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: did they.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think maybe I think maybe
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: he was so I don't know, sad or just. I
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: just think maybe he couldn't trust anyone. And I don't know.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I find him asexual. I don't find him to be
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: a child molester or sexual in any sense of the word.
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: I think he's a sexual. I think he just wanted
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: to have kids. I don't find him to be a
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: sexual being. And I think maybe that's why he picked
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Debbie Row because maybe he distrusted her. Maybe she I
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: think she worked for him for a long time, so
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: maybe it was just mistrust.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: You're not going anywhere, Maybe that was it.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: The prosecution interviews Debbie Rowe, who is Michael Jackson's ex wife.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: Debbie was supposed to speak on the fact that Michael.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: They were married.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Debbie was supposed to testify to the fact that
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Michael allegedly kept her from seeing her children. Instead, she
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: got up on the stand and praised Michael. I remember
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: this in the documentary. The prosecution they used her as
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: a witness. I guess they met with her previously, right
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: before she testifies.
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: Yeh.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: And she has all these things to say about Michael,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, this is great, this is great,
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: we're gonna use you. You're going to testify. Then she
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: gets on the stand, does it complete? One pint eighty?
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: She doesn't say any of the things that allegedly she
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: had said before. She just praises him, says he's a
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: great guy, great dad, all the things.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: You think she was messing with people, or you think
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: she got cold.
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: Feet, I don't know it, said prosecutors. The eariza. Jackson
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: promised her more access to the children if she testified positively.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how. If he got
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: to her, if the defense got to her, if she
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: just had a change of heart and decided she didn't
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: want to smear his name, I don't know. Trial day
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: forty four, the defense calls witnesses Macaulay Culkin, who testifies
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: that Jackson never abused him. Brett Barnes and Wade Robson,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: who are other alleged victims, also testify in Jackson's defense.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Wade Robson has since come out and claimed that Michael
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: Jackson did sexually abuse him. He alleges that the sexual
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: abuse began when he was seven years old in nineteen
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: ninety and it continued for seven seven years. He filed
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: a lawsuit in twenty thirteen and his civil trial is
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: set for twenty twenty eight. You know, there's a lot
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: of these people that defend him and say he never
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: did it, He never touched me, he never had anything sexual,
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: there was no nothing. And then now later they end
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: up saying, oh, never mind, I you know, something triggered me,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: and now he did, and so they sued the estate.
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: You know. Also I read that when Michael Jackson died,
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: his state was worth around four hundred and fifty million.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: Do you know what his state is supposedly worth currently
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: more or less more billion, two to three billion.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: So because you can commercialize all this stuff, whereas maybe
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: before he wasn't interested in selling it and stuff like that,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: and he bought a lot of catalogs and then so
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: they probably sold or licensed him out. You know, it's
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: like Kirk Cobain. You know, when they die and all
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, you know, they have a catalog of music,
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: and then Courtney Love sold it, sold half of it
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: and made a fortune. I just Einstein is worth fortune posthumously.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: Is that what it's called?
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: I think?
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: I think every year Elvis is number one in Einstein's
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: number two.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: June of two thousand and five, the verdict comes out.
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Fans and protesters crowd outside the courthouse. During jury deliberations,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson has found not guilty on all counts. Even
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: after the acquittal, public opinion remains deeply divided. The documentary
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: concludes that, regardless of the verdict, the allegations permanently damaged
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Jackson's reputation and legacy. You know, I did not really
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: understand the timeline of the verdict and then his death.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: But they do an interview.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: I mean how close in time it was, Yeah.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Because they interviewed someone that was close to him. In
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: the end, I don't remember it said. Maybe it was
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: like his personal biographer or something. I don't remember the
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: man's name, but he said something to the effect of
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: I was so happy for Michael that he was acquitted.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I was saying, now you can get you know, he
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: was talking where you can go back to your life
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: and you can you know, house.
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: The code on your keypad in your room, you'll be good.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: But I don't remember who he was saying that to,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: but the person said, oh no, this this will he'll
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: never he'll never recover, like he'll never be the same
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: after this.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Like publicly view. I think just the emotionally, all of
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: the above.
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: I think it was just deeply affected him and his
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: psyche so badly that he could just never recover. And
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: then that's when they said that he died in two
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: thousand and nine, which was only four years later, which
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: is a very short amount of time.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: Very very like like yeah, it is surprisingly how close
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: in time it was. And then he was preparing for
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: his tour. I remember watching footage of him preparing for
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: his tour, and there was like leaked footage or something
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: behind the scene footage of him rehearsing with dancers. And
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: then that was it.
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, there was a video. You're gonna make
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: fun of me, but I'm gonna say it anyway. There
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: was a video that surfaced recently. I believe it was
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: in Brazil, and it was someone.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: Who was he working at some market in Brazil.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Now, no, he was on a bus. He was on
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: a bus in Brazil and it was a video where
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: someone recognized him and was saying, you're Michael Jackson. In
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: the video was like of his face and I tell
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: you it looked just like Michael Jackson would look if
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: he aged from two thousand and nine to twenty twenty six.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: It was very interesting because you know, there are a
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: lot of theories out there that he is alive, that
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: he fakes his death.
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: According to you, no one dies that's famous, No one
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: that's a platinum star. Yeah, doesn't die.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what, maybe the whole trial and everything
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: he went through was some pajamas and all was, you know,
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: a way to take him down and get a hold
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: of his catalog. And they did everything possible to take
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: him down, and he knew that they were going to
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: continue to come after him, and so he faked his
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: death and that was his only way out. Maybe, I
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: don't know, it's just possibility. What do you guys think?
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: Maybe not?
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: Is he still alive or no? All right, let's just
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: do it. Let me do a little ending to this.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: So Michael Jackson has more accusers, including the Castio family.
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Now this family, when I talked about earlier in the podcast,
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: Frank Cassio knew Michael Jackson from the time he was
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: very young and worked his way up into being the
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: personal assistant to him. He is the one who handed
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: the Duffel bag to the other guy and said hide
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: this evidence. He also spent years and years and years
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: defending Michael, saying he never did anything wrong. He was
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: a huge supporter of him. Then the Cassio family, he
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: has I think two other brothers and a sister, or
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: three other brothers and a sister. There's like four or
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: five of them all together. So the Cassio family and
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson go back to the mid nineteen eighties when
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: their father, Dominic Cassio, was a manager at the Helmsley
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: Palace hotel in New York, a property Michael frequently visited.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: I guess Michael got to know this Dominic that worked
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: there and they became really good friends. And then Dominic
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: would invite Michael to his home. I believe they lived
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: in New Jersey. The friendship deepened over decades, with the
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: Cassio children visiting Neverland and Jackson treating the family as
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: his own. They were so close he often called them
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: his second family. For over twenty five years, the Cassios
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: were among Michael's most vocal defenders. They even appeared on
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: OPRAH in twenty ten after his death to defend his character.
• 53:19
  Speaker 2: Now I'm guessing that's leading into some.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Frank Cassio, the one sibling who is not joining this lawsuit.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Apparently he is already being sued in arbitration for civil extortion.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: He even wrote a twenty eleven book called My Friend
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson, insisting nothing inappropriate had ever happened, So what changed? Well.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: In February of twenty twenty six, the four siblings, Edward Dominic,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: Marie Nicole, and Aldo Cassio all filed a federal lawsuit
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: in Los Angeles against the Michael Jackson estate, alleging that
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: Michael drugged, raped, and sexually abused each of them beginning
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: when they were as young as seven or eight years old.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: They claimed that they did not come far forward sooner,
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: and that they always defended him in the past because
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: they were systematically groomed and brainwashed using Michael's wealth, celebrity,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: and network of employees, and that the twenty nineteen HBO
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: documentary Leaving Neverland was a catalyst for their deprogramming. The
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: estate's response has been blunt. Attorney Marty Singer called it
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: a desperate money grab and a shakedown, pointing to the
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: family's twenty five year public defense of Jackson as evidence
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: that their stories have now shifted for financial reasons. Now,
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: they did settle. They did settle with the estate a
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: few years back, and they got like sixteen million dollars.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: And then the sixteen million dollars ran out in twenty
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: twenty five, so they sued again and say they fun Yes,
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: So that's where they're at now. And I believe that
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: the estate fired back and said that they weren't. They
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: have to go through arbitration. That was part of the settlement,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: is that it had to be follow it had to
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: be arbitration and all these things. I don't know. I'm
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: just telling you again, you have these He befriends people,
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: and they get all these benefits from him, and they
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: spend twenty five years talking about what a great guy
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: he is and defending him to the bitter end. And
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: then I don't know, maybe they read an article that
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: his estate is worth two to three billion dollars. But
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden they're triggered. Yeah, twenty five years later,
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: they're triggered by something, and now they realized that they
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: were groomed and they were sexually abuse. They just didn't
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: realize it before. So now they want millions of dollars
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: and then they get a settlement of sixteen million.
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: Every time I'm triggered, I want more million, right.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: And then the settlement runs out. I believe they each
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: received six hundred and ninety thousand a month for five years,
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: and then that was uh huh something like that. That's
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: sixteen million. I don't know, I can't do the math.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: And then that ended in twenty twenty five. But now
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're claiming that they were, you know,
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: coerced into settling, and so it's on. It's ongoing anyway,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: all right. So that is Michael Jackson the verdict. I
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: would love to hear your thoughts on it. Please, No,
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: I know your thoughts.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: Thoughts. You're crazy, crazy, no, I know, buzz. It makes
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: for good discussion. You're trying to take the position that,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: you know, considering that he's a pop star, it's uberwealthy,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: you had a rough childhood. You know, the facts are questionable,
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: but they're on in both ways, right, Yeah, Like he
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: had a porno magazine, but is in a briefcase it
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: looks like weird.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: Well again, let's just we have to identify that it
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: was pornography. But it was adult pornography. It wasn't child porno.
• 56:43
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, so you have to make that the wrong magazine
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: right in court. And his pajama stunt was clearly a stunt.
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: You thought it was a stunt.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, tell me tell me that you can meet
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: that guy goes to the e er No, all right, sorry,
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: I mean you're gonna go to r and to see
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: like a list celebrities there.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Well, if it was a stunt, it was a brilliant start.
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: Let me just read you. So the two books they
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: talk about that they found it the Neverland Estate that
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: had you know, the pictures of you know, young boys
• 57:14
  Speaker 1: in them, which they said also these books were considered
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: art and also were found in libraries and things like that.
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: So it but they were young boys and they were naked. Anyway.
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: One of the books is called The Boy, a photographic essay,
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: and there's actually an inscription inside the book that Michael
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Jackson had written. It said, look at the true spirit
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: of happiness and joy in the boy's faces. This is
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: the spirit of boyhood, a life I've never had and
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: will always dream of. This is the life I want
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: for my children. Again, to me, that just means that
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: he's not I don't feel like he did anything little
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: Boy because of a sexual desire or need. It is
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: because I don't think he had a childhood, and I
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: think that's the thing that's missing from his life, and
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: I think he keeps trying to recreate that, and by
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: recreating that, he has young boys around him and he
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: does things that boys that age would do because he
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: never got to. That's my takeaway.
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's a far fetched anyway.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for listening to Michael Jackson
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: The Verdict. If you have comments or you have anything
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: to add, I love to hear it, so please find
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: me on Instagram and DM me. Also, if you have
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: other cases you'd like us to talk about, I love
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: to hear the recommendations. As always, please follow Legally Brunette
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts, and please tell your friends
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: and family thank you so much for listening.