Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #508 Toddlers and Divorce

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#508 Toddlers and Divorce · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 2: wants answers. Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Coilson with
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  Speaker 2: another Happy Families podcast, once again solo. I'm on my
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  Speaker 2: last day apparently of having to what is it self isolate,
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  Speaker 2: stay away from Kylie, missus Happy Family's wishes that she
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  Speaker 2: was hearing this conversation doing this podcast.
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  Speaker 1: But because she's not, and because I'm just a little
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  Speaker 1: bit quaki, I'm.
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  Speaker 2: Pretty sure I'm losing and letting go of all of
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  Speaker 2: those symptoms of COVID, I just need to get that
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  Speaker 2: little bit better. But once again today I'm doing this
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  Speaker 2: podcast solo without Kylie, just so that we can protect
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  Speaker 2: her and make sure that she doesn't end up feeling
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  Speaker 2: lousy like I have.
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  Speaker 1: For the last week or thereabouts.
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  Speaker 2: Every Tuesday on the Happy Families podcast, we answer a
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  Speaker 2: listener question. Our Happy Families Premium members have the opportunity
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  Speaker 2: to send their questions through via the Happy Family's Premium membership,
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  Speaker 2: and I answer those questions as regular as I possibly can,
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  Speaker 2: including Tuesdays on the pod. And today we've got one
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  Speaker 2: that's come through from somebody who we're going to call Sue.
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  Speaker 1: This is not her real name. She wanted to stay anonymous.
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  Speaker 2: So Sue says, hey, there, justin I'm chasing a resource
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  Speaker 2: that might be able to help me. I need to
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  Speaker 2: navigate supporting a toddler to sleep.
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  Speaker 1: At her dad's house. She doesn't want to go.
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  Speaker 2: She's tried, but she cries for me in the night.
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  Speaker 2: She's distressed for two or three days. When she comes home,
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  Speaker 2: the three older kids are distressed. We didn't push the
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  Speaker 2: other kids. They all went when they were ready. This, however,
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  Speaker 2: is different because dad now has a girlfriend. Help please,
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  Speaker 2: what do I do? So Normally, if Kylie was here,
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  Speaker 2: we would go backwards and forwards and share a whole
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  Speaker 2: range of ideas. But in the interests of preserving my
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  Speaker 2: voice and try to give an answer for the time
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  Speaker 2: poor parent who just once answers. Now, if you're in
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  Speaker 2: a situation where separation and divorce have occurred and the
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  Speaker 2: kids are not that interested. In fact, they're reluctant, they're
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  Speaker 2: even pushing against spending time at the other parents' house,
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  Speaker 2: it puts you in a really difficult situation, and we
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  Speaker 2: need to be sensitive here. The first thing that I
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  Speaker 2: want to highlight is that from what we can tell.
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  Speaker 2: The very best research suggests that so long as both
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  Speaker 2: parents are safe, so long as both parents are kind
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  Speaker 2: to the kids, so long as both parents know how
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  Speaker 2: to do right by their children. The research seems to
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  Speaker 2: suggest that kids do well by having an approximately equal
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  Speaker 2: amount of time with each parent. Fifty to fifty share
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  Speaker 2: or something close to that seems to work best. What
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  Speaker 2: often happens instead is that we end up with Disneyland
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  Speaker 2: dads who have all the fun times on the weekend,
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  Speaker 2: and then we end up with mum doing all the
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  Speaker 2: hard work during the week That doesn't seem fair. Now, obviously,
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  Speaker 2: with this particular question from Sue, that's not exactly what's
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  Speaker 2: going on. We're talking about a toddler who's having disrupted
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  Speaker 2: sleep and who doesn't seem to want to go to
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  Speaker 2: her dad's, is really attached to mum and wants to
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  Speaker 2: stay with mum. And there's a difference in that Now
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  Speaker 2: there's a girlfriend in the picture for dad, but also
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  Speaker 2: the three bigger kids they didn't have to go until
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  Speaker 2: they felt ready. Now, I've had a little bit of
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  Speaker 2: a browse around some of the research, and I can't
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  Speaker 2: find anything that's really compelling research wise. But I have
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  Speaker 2: this hypothesis, and that is that when our children are younger,
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  Speaker 2: they really need stability, they need security, and they need predictability.
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  Speaker 2: That routine is so important for them. And what also
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  Speaker 2: happens with our younger children is they develop what we
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  Speaker 2: call an attachment hierarchy. So attachment essentially is a way
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  Speaker 2: of measuring the quality of the relationship, and kids tend
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  Speaker 2: to create an attachment hierarchy with a person at the
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  Speaker 2: top of the hierarchy is the one who makes them
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  Speaker 2: feel safest, the one who's they're the most, the one
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  Speaker 2: who is predictable and secure for them. In the vast
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  Speaker 2: majority of cases, the person at the top of the
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  Speaker 2: attachment hierarchy is going to be mum, and that hierarchy
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  Speaker 2: stays in place for the first.
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  Speaker 1: Few years of a child's life.
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  Speaker 2: It's so important for them to feel like the world
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  Speaker 2: is safe, and Mum being at the top of that
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  Speaker 2: hierarchy is how they create that feeling of safety. So
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  Speaker 2: my initial response, my initial feeling here is that unless
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  Speaker 2: there are court orders, unless there are issues that we
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  Speaker 2: need to be mindful of here, where there is a
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  Speaker 2: genuine custody agreement that can't be broken, it's generally in
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  Speaker 2: the children's best interests to have that stability and that
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  Speaker 2: security with their primary attachment figure. Having said that, they
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  Speaker 2: still need to spend time with other caregivers and other
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  Speaker 2: important adults in their lives so that they can become
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  Speaker 2: familiar with them and become securely attached to them. But sleepovers,
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  Speaker 2: especially for young children under the age of two or three,
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  Speaker 2: toddler age, even under the age of four or five,
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  Speaker 2: maybe there may be some room for some negotiation there,
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  Speaker 2: Maybe until the child's a little bit bigger and understands
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  Speaker 2: a little more. Maybe there's the possibility that we can
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  Speaker 2: make the argument that for now sleepovers with little kids
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  Speaker 2: aren't the best idea. I remember having a conversation with
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  Speaker 2: a legal scholar in Western Australia some years ago who
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  Speaker 2: was highlighting that in the family courts there is some
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  Speaker 2: or at least back this was a handful of years ago,
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  Speaker 2: now there is some recognition that we shouldn't be forcing
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  Speaker 2: infants and toddlers and maybe even preschoolers to be having
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  Speaker 2: sleepovers with the parent that don't see quite so often.
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  Speaker 2: That we do need to let them be a certain age,
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  Speaker 2: and of course, once new adults start coming into other
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  Speaker 2: environments that only complicates it further.
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  Speaker 1: So what do we do.
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  Speaker 2: The first thing that we might do is try to
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  Speaker 2: work out can we make these transitions work better? Can
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  Speaker 2: we make the sleepover work in a way that doesn't
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  Speaker 2: cause distress to the child? Can we navigate the relationships
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  Speaker 2: and work with our ex in such a way that
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  Speaker 2: we become partners on this challenge rather than seeing them
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  Speaker 2: as a problem or an enemy. That would be solution
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  Speaker 2: number one. Solution number two would be that perhaps we
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  Speaker 2: make an arrangement that for the next little while, until
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  Speaker 2: the child is a little bit bigger, a bit more mature,
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  Speaker 2: a bit more developmentally advanced, that we give that child
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  Speaker 2: the security instability of being allowed to stay in their
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  Speaker 2: own bed, in their own home, the home that they
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  Speaker 2: spend the most time in with that attachment person figure
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  Speaker 2: that they spend the most time with. Can we just
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  Speaker 2: make that the stable way of moving forward now, in
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  Speaker 2: the interests of fairness to both parents, I'd definitely rather
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  Speaker 2: see the first thing happen, But developmentally that just might
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  Speaker 2: not work, and therefore the second option might be the
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  Speaker 2: preferable one that requires both adults to be good, to
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  Speaker 2: be kind to be fair and to put the needs
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  Speaker 2: of the children first. Otherwise that's not going to work.
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  Speaker 2: After the break, I want to share some other tips
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  Speaker 2: and ideas about dealing with separation and divorce. We'll call
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  Speaker 2: them the five c's of separation and divorce on the
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  Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast. If you have more than one child,
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  Speaker 2: there's a simple truth. They're going to fight, they're going
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  Speaker 2: to compete, and they're going to have relationship troubles. But
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  Speaker 2: the real secret isn't how to stop the fighting, it's
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  Speaker 2: how to teach them kindness. The Teaching Kids' Kindness webinar
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  Speaker 2: will help you to do just that, but also help
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  Speaker 2: them build lifelong sibling bonds that lead to lifelong friendships.
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  Speaker 2: Check out Teaching Kids Kindness at Happy families dot com
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  Speaker 2: dot a U. It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast
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  Speaker 2: for the time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now. Hello, this is doctor Justin Coulson. Let's talk about.
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  Speaker 2: These separation and divorce ideas, the ways that we can
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  Speaker 2: help things to work.
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  Speaker 1: Out a little bit better.
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  Speaker 2: A little while ago, I wrote this article called the
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  Speaker 2: Five Seas of Separation and Divorce, and what the research
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  Speaker 2: seems to point to is that if we can get
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  Speaker 2: these five seas consistent, get these five seas correct, see
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  Speaker 2: what I did this consistent career anyway, then we can
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  Speaker 2: help our children to thrive in spite of separation and
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  Speaker 2: divorce because there's no there's no way of getting around it.
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  Speaker 2: Separation and divorce take an enormous toll on children. Now
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  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that to induce any shame or guilt.
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  Speaker 2: The reality is this stuff happens, but there are things
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  Speaker 2: that we can do to minimize the negative impacts of this.
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  Speaker 2: And I also want to highlight I know that nobody
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  Speaker 2: actually gets into a relationship thinking, oh, well, if it
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  Speaker 2: doesn't work, I can always leave.
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  Speaker 1: That's not what we're getting at here.
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  Speaker 2: But the reality is that separation and divorce are very,
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  Speaker 2: very challenging for our children. So the first of the
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  Speaker 2: seas that will help to make things better is the
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  Speaker 2: sea of closeness. Closeness meaning Research has shown that parents
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  Speaker 2: who remain near one another give their children the best
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  Speaker 2: opportunities for success. Children who have the option of visiting
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  Speaker 2: with mum or dad most days of the week seem
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  Speaker 2: to respond to the challenges of separation and divorce the best,
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  Speaker 2: and some of those reasons might include just the simple
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  Speaker 2: convenience of it. We know that kids who see their
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  Speaker 2: parents more have generally better relationships with them than children
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  Speaker 2: who rarely see their parents. They're more likely to have
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  Speaker 2: easier access to their friends because they live close, and
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  Speaker 2: schooling and sports or other extra activities can be much
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  Speaker 2: more easily accommodated. The second sea of separation and divorce
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  Speaker 2: is caregiving. Essentially, children thrivee when their parents are involved
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  Speaker 2: in their lives, and most research would suggest that when
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  Speaker 2: parents are both involved in the bathing and the helping,
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  Speaker 2: the shopping and the support of their children, that can
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  Speaker 2: going to do better. The third sea is conflict. Research
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  Speaker 2: unequivocally shows that parents need to keep their children away
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  Speaker 2: from the conflict that's associated with their breakup. For a child,
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  Speaker 2: when they see their parents fight, it's really, really scary,
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  Speaker 2: and there's no doubt at all that kids who feel
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  Speaker 2: torn between parents are usually going to be the ones
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  Speaker 2: who are the absolute worst of high conflict exacerbates the
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  Speaker 2: emotion of distress that kids feel, and it leads.
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  Speaker 1: To poor psychological adjustment. The next one is change.
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  Speaker 2: Kids do best when their lives are stable, so minimizing
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  Speaker 2: change and the final one is cash. The more equal
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  Speaker 2: that cash distribution is between homes, the easier it is
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  Speaker 2: for kids to feel like their standard of living doesn't
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  Speaker 2: change and to like being at one house just as
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  Speaker 2: much as the other house.
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  Speaker 1: So those are the.
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  Speaker 2: Things that I would add to the question that came
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  Speaker 2: through from Sue in answering that idea of how are
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  Speaker 2: we supposed to deal with this? I know that kind
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  Speaker 2: of gets off the topic of the sleepovers, but we
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  Speaker 2: sort of address that in the first half. Hopefully that's
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  Speaker 2: helpful in the interests of health and safety. I'm going
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  Speaker 2: to wrap up this podcast now and go and rest
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  Speaker 2: my voice again. Hopefully by tomorrow I'll be back and everything.
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  Speaker 2: I'll be feeling fine. My week is up as of
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  Speaker 2: tomorrow morning, and fingers crossed, we can we can get
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  Speaker 2: on with our lives again.
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  Speaker 1: The Happy Families.
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  Speaker 2: Podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig
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  Speaker 2: Bruce is our executive producer, and if you'd like more
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: and fol about making your family happier, just visit us
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: at Happy Families dot com dot au.