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The Penguin Finale · May The Review Be With You

0:00
Speaker 1: Dude the Penguin, like, ugh, when does Batman two come
0:05
Speaker 1: out tomorrow?
0:05
Speaker 2: Hopefully?
0:08
Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to made the Review Beat with You
0:11
Speaker 3: with Nick and Joe. I'm Joe, now I'm Nick, and
0:15
Speaker 3: today we are reviewing the finale of HBO Max Is
0:19
Speaker 3: the Penguin. We've arrived at the end that we have
0:22
Speaker 3: been talking about this show all season long, right from
0:26
Speaker 3: the beginning. We did another review halfway through because we
0:29
Speaker 3: couldn't wait to talk about it, and here we are again. Nick,
0:32
Speaker 3: I think my hype has remained at an all time
0:36
Speaker 3: high from beginning of this show all the way to
0:38
Speaker 3: the end.
0:39
Speaker 2: Where are you right now?
0:40
Speaker 1: One hundred percent agree? All time high? The whole time.
0:46
Speaker 1: I'm still losing sleep over the last like ten minutes
0:51
Speaker 1: of the episode. The whole episode was fantastic, which we'll
0:53
Speaker 1: get into, but of course season finale, there's some insane
0:59
Speaker 1: stuff that goes down at the end there and I
1:02
Speaker 1: still can't believe it. That's where I'm at.
1:07
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna call it right now. The Penguin gets
1:12
Speaker 3: the Emmy for like everything, just everything.
1:16
Speaker 1: It's crazy. It's crazy because like Agatha all along was
1:19
Speaker 1: so good and Rings of Power had some insanely good
1:22
Speaker 1: episodes too, so like, I don't know if it's gonna
1:26
Speaker 1: get it for everything, but it's hard to say no either.
1:29
Speaker 3: Everything Best Lead Actor, Best Lead Actors, Best Screenplay, Best Makeup.
1:36
Speaker 3: Oh my god, maybe maybe it won't win for Best Music,
1:39
Speaker 3: although the music was pretty damn good. It was you
1:42
Speaker 3: know what it was, You know what it is, Nick,
1:44
Speaker 3: We exist in such a weird timeline. That's where we
1:47
Speaker 3: had not one but two like spinoff show two superhero
1:53
Speaker 3: sippinoff shows led by characters that have their fan base sure,
1:58
Speaker 3: but aren't crazy popular, and then both were like stupendous hits.
2:04
Speaker 2: How did that happen? How did we get to this timeline?
2:08
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I want to stay here forever
2:10
Speaker 1: because the TV that's being pumped out right now is
2:12
Speaker 1: as good as it gets. It's good as and I
2:16
Speaker 1: think you have recency bias, sir. That's the only reason
2:19
Speaker 1: you think the Penguin is the one going before all
2:21
Speaker 1: the Emmys, which I can't disagree.
2:24
Speaker 3: I still have yet to finish the Bear, so you
2:26
Speaker 3: might be right about that and listen to the Bear.
2:29
Speaker 3: I am thinking back on Showgun. Showgun is very, very good.
2:32
Speaker 1: The Bear was good, but the ending was was was awesome.
2:35
Speaker 1: I think we're not going to talk about the Bear today,
2:37
Speaker 1: but not my favorite season of the Bear overall. But anyway, dude,
2:44
Speaker 1: the Penguin like, uh, when does Batman two come out tomorrow?
2:49
Speaker 2: Hope?
2:51
Speaker 1: Yo?
2:51
Speaker 2: That was my exactly thought.
2:52
Speaker 3: I had two thoughts towards the end of the show.
2:55
Speaker 3: I'll get into the first one later, but that was
2:58
Speaker 3: one of them. Like the moment it ended, I was like, God,
3:00
Speaker 3: I wish I could watch The Batman two right now.
3:03
Speaker 1: That's my initial reaction. I don't have I don't wanna,
3:06
Speaker 1: I don't I don't have anything else immediate to say
3:08
Speaker 1: until we get into it. Unless you have something else
3:10
Speaker 1: you want to discuss.
3:11
Speaker 2: I do.
3:12
Speaker 3: And the first thing being, guys, if you enjoy this content,
3:15
Speaker 3: the way that you can help us out is of
3:17
Speaker 3: course by subscribing our to our channel and by giving
3:20
Speaker 3: us a like hit that bell to keep up with
3:23
Speaker 3: all of our content here on.
3:24
Speaker 2: May the review be with you.
3:26
Speaker 3: Now, let's go ahead and get into the finale discussion.
3:30
Speaker 1: Will we get this like crazy flashback? It's like conversations
3:34
Speaker 1: between Fran and Rex Penguin's mom of course, and yeah, like,
3:40
Speaker 1: what did you what were your like thoughts there on
3:43
Speaker 1: these flashback scenes here.
3:45
Speaker 3: So my first thought is that Deirdre DeAndre O'Connell, oh
3:51
Speaker 3: Place Francis definitely deserves the Emmy for Best Supporting Actress.
3:57
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna ride that train all the way. In man,
4:01
Speaker 3: she really is phenomenal. I mean throughout the show, uh
4:05
Speaker 3: she she can be equal parts scary and and heartbreaking,
4:09
Speaker 3: and certainly in the beginning of this episode, within this
4:12
Speaker 3: Rex flashback, I think when we start this show, we
4:19
Speaker 3: see her as maybe the monster that formed oz right,
4:23
Speaker 3: but this flashback really recontextualizes her and and we see
4:28
Speaker 3: that she is just another victim really in creating Oswald, right,
4:36
Speaker 3: or I guess, a victim in the creation of Oswald
4:38
Speaker 3: becoming the penguin, and certainly like she plays her role
4:41
Speaker 3: in enabling him into becoming the monster that he will become.
4:45
Speaker 3: But I mean, there is this there's this argument of
4:48
Speaker 3: nature versus nurture in this flash in this flashback, that
4:52
Speaker 3: that really speaks to how much of a monster he
4:56
Speaker 3: already was when he was born, far before you.
5:00
Speaker 2: Know, he did what he did.
5:02
Speaker 3: And I just got to give it Joe O'Connell here,
5:05
Speaker 3: just just a phenomenal performance all the way through.
5:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a great point. Like until that scene,
5:13
Speaker 1: our thoughts had been it's her fault that he's this way,
5:17
Speaker 1: but really there's a nature aspect to where he was
5:22
Speaker 1: born this way a little bit, a little bit different
5:24
Speaker 1: than everybody else. Yeah, and took it too far as
5:27
Speaker 1: a kid, and that is basically where the road splits
5:31
Speaker 1: and you kind of take one path. Yeah, great nature
5:36
Speaker 1: versus nurture point. It's insane, like an insane right off
5:40
Speaker 1: the back.
5:41
Speaker 3: It is like this whole time, Like I always thought
5:43
Speaker 3: of her, and I guess we were supposed to think
5:46
Speaker 3: of her as like a Lady Macbeth, and like she's not.
5:48
Speaker 3: She's just one more victim in yep in Oz's kill count,
5:52
Speaker 3: and honestly, she might have the worst fate of any
5:56
Speaker 3: character on the show.
5:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean when you're just front row seat.
6:07
Speaker 1: She's had a front row seat the whole time, and
6:09
Speaker 1: now she's got a front row seat. And the worst
6:11
Speaker 1: part is she is she can't even speak now, right,
6:14
Speaker 1: She's just a vegetable it trapped in a prison on
6:19
Speaker 1: top of the pity, just like he promised basically, you know,
6:25
Speaker 1: a brutal way, like a brutal way for her character
6:28
Speaker 1: to essentially like finish out her story because that's it.
6:31
Speaker 1: But really there's nothing.
6:32
Speaker 3: Else presumably yeah she has nothing now, just saying just
6:37
Speaker 3: a really nice view.
6:40
Speaker 2: Big oof.
6:42
Speaker 3: But uh yeah, the reveal here that she was considering
6:46
Speaker 3: having Rex kill him, I thought that was a great reveal,
6:50
Speaker 3: especially since we got part of this flashback in the
6:53
Speaker 3: previous episode right from Oswald's perspective, and it seemed like,
6:59
Speaker 3: you know, he had gotten everything that he wanted, and really,
7:01
Speaker 3: in the recontextualization of this scene, we're discovering that he
7:06
Speaker 3: was almost murdered that night, right, and she changes his
7:11
Speaker 3: mind considering Rex's words and maybe like today's not the
7:15
Speaker 3: day that we kill him to maybe maybe we do
7:18
Speaker 3: it a different day. And she just never takes Rex
7:21
Speaker 3: up on his offer until it's far too late, and
7:24
Speaker 3: the dominoes fall and so do the bodies.
7:26
Speaker 1: It's wild, yeah, totally insane, and the scene we really like,
7:35
Speaker 1: we're really we get some great insight into how different
7:40
Speaker 1: the penguin is too right in his head in this
7:42
Speaker 1: like family therapy interrogation session, and Sophia is trying to
7:47
Speaker 1: get Penguin to just tell his mother the truth out loud,
7:51
Speaker 1: even though she already knows. The Penguin doesn't seem to
7:54
Speaker 1: realize that she knows. But everyone else in the room
7:56
Speaker 1: knows that she knows that he's the one that killed
7:58
Speaker 1: the boys, except for Penguin thinking he like got it
8:03
Speaker 1: got it by her at some point there is whole
8:06
Speaker 1: life and it's like, this seems insane because so like
8:11
Speaker 1: have how crazy Sophia is about like him telling her
8:15
Speaker 1: the truth. It seemed it seemed a little odd to
8:18
Speaker 1: me that she cared that much. I mean, she kind
8:21
Speaker 1: of related to the fact that, you know, her father
8:24
Speaker 1: kept secrets or whatever.
8:27
Speaker 3: But well, I think, I mean, I think what the
8:32
Speaker 3: game that she's trying to play there is. She's trying
8:35
Speaker 3: to make Oz go through this agony, right, right? And
8:39
Speaker 3: he she knows that he loves his mom so much
8:44
Speaker 3: that he lied about her being dead to protect her,
8:47
Speaker 3: right right, So she knows that this is like his
8:50
Speaker 3: weak spot, right, So if if he or if she
8:55
Speaker 3: can get if she can get Oz to confess to
9:00
Speaker 3: his mom, then his mom will you'll presumably have some
9:03
Speaker 3: sort of moment of disowning him. Right or betraying him,
9:06
Speaker 3: And I think that's what she's banking on, right to
9:09
Speaker 3: watch that relationship crumble in front of him. She's trying
9:13
Speaker 3: to destroy his world, like mentally, right, Like this is
9:17
Speaker 3: like in middle school, I always said, like it was
9:21
Speaker 3: always better to fight with a guy than it was
9:23
Speaker 3: a girl, because like a guy might punch you in
9:25
Speaker 3: the face and like that'll be the end of it,
9:26
Speaker 3: end of the day.
9:27
Speaker 2: But a girl will ruin your entire life. She'll screw
9:30
Speaker 2: you up mentally, Like, never get into a fight with
9:33
Speaker 2: a girl.
9:35
Speaker 1: And this is what Sophia's trying to do, ruined his
9:37
Speaker 1: exact life, but exactly, but I have this there's there's
9:40
Speaker 1: something else that's really interesting because Penguin won't break. He
9:44
Speaker 1: won't say it right, he won't say it. And then
9:48
Speaker 1: it gets to a point where his mom comes out
9:51
Speaker 1: and says it for him. But there's a moment there
9:53
Speaker 1: where Sophia kind of turns to him and says, h,
9:56
Speaker 1: maybe you don't care about her as much as I thought,
10:00
Speaker 1: and like makes a kind of implies that there's something
10:05
Speaker 1: wrong with Penguin, like in his head, Like there's a
10:07
Speaker 1: there's an extra step, right, which we have discovered based
10:10
Speaker 1: on how he was growing up.
10:14
Speaker 4: And it kind of like she says it kind of quickly,
10:16
Speaker 4: and then the scene changes a little bit, so we
10:20
Speaker 4: don't linger there for very long, but it's like a
10:22
Speaker 4: quick thing that kind of makes you think for a second,
10:25
Speaker 4: it's like, oh, wait, maybe does he not care as
10:27
Speaker 4: much as we think he does?
10:28
Speaker 2: You know?
10:29
Speaker 1: Is there some more screws loose than we think? And
10:32
Speaker 1: that scene has been very important for what happens at
10:34
Speaker 1: the very end of the episode with Vic, which we don't.
10:37
Speaker 2: Have to get there yet, but I don't want to
10:41
Speaker 2: go there.
10:41
Speaker 1: It relates to it to where like when that happens,
10:45
Speaker 1: I was like, whoa wait, she kind of implied that
10:48
Speaker 1: maybe Penguin doesn't actually care about the people he thinks
10:51
Speaker 1: he cares about or he says he cares about. And
10:54
Speaker 1: this is a very cool moment in that scene, in
10:57
Speaker 1: that family therapy scene that really does seem as important
11:00
Speaker 1: until later anyway.
11:04
Speaker 2: No, you're right, it's a good foreshadow.
11:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, before we move on from the most messed up
11:09
Speaker 3: family therapy session of all time, I just really want
11:14
Speaker 3: to shout out here another Emmy push CHRISTIMILIODI looks like
11:20
Speaker 3: she's just having so much fun in this scene, Like
11:23
Speaker 3: right from the start with the baby bird story to
11:27
Speaker 3: the part where she's just trying to egg Oz to
11:30
Speaker 3: tell the truth by threatening the finger cut, Like she
11:34
Speaker 3: is having a blast in this scene.
11:36
Speaker 2: She's killing it. She's giving off the crazy, murderous vibe.
11:38
Speaker 3: She's giving off the like disturbed, like I can't believe
11:41
Speaker 3: you're gonna let me cut off your mom's finger.
11:44
Speaker 2: Vibes, Like she's everywhere, and I love it.
11:47
Speaker 3: I love this character. I'm I don't know if we'll
11:51
Speaker 3: ever see her again. I am glad that this character
11:54
Speaker 3: did not meet her end necessarily. Yeah, but damn Christimiliode
11:59
Speaker 3: really like shot up on my radar from this show,
12:02
Speaker 3: from going to going from just being the mother and
12:06
Speaker 3: how I met your mother too. I actually took time
12:09
Speaker 3: to learn her name because I love her talent so much.
12:12
Speaker 1: She's fantastic. And the outfit in that scene was great too,
12:15
Speaker 1: Like the costume design in this show is so good,
12:17
Speaker 1: Like just the red accent, you know, the red scarf
12:20
Speaker 1: or whatever that is, and then the bottom of her
12:22
Speaker 1: heels are just had the same color red act and
12:24
Speaker 1: that was it, like really like villainous and badass and
12:29
Speaker 1: really cool.
12:30
Speaker 3: That's a great call. She she looked like an absolute
12:33
Speaker 3: comic book villain.
12:34
Speaker 1: Absolute comic villain. Yeah, for sure, that outfit comic book
12:37
Speaker 1: villain all day. So good. And dude, I just remember
12:42
Speaker 1: too in this scene that like his Oswald Penguin's mom
12:46
Speaker 1: stabs him at the end of this scene.
12:48
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
12:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally forgot, Like she got so mad that
12:51
Speaker 1: she stabs him, which, like I guess she hated him
12:55
Speaker 1: that much finally in that moment and admitted it. But
12:58
Speaker 1: also maybe it was like strategic so that they could
13:03
Speaker 1: get away. I don't know. She's so insane that I'm
13:06
Speaker 1: not sure which one makes more sense.
13:08
Speaker 2: I think she just wanted to put him down. She
13:11
Speaker 2: just wanted to end him.
13:12
Speaker 1: She just wanted to she just wanted him to be dad.
13:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's what's more like question Markie is like, so,
13:21
Speaker 3: like where did that super strength come from?
13:24
Speaker 2: Where he just like ripped out? Yeah, Like, don't get
13:26
Speaker 2: me wrong, Like.
13:27
Speaker 3: I know people are incapable of like crazy feats of
13:29
Speaker 3: strength under adrenaline, but like that was wild.
13:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. The only thing I could think it was like
13:35
Speaker 1: it was only duct tape and you know, he was
13:38
Speaker 1: sitting in that chair for a while, so just it
13:42
Speaker 1: got a little loosey goosey, and eventually he was able
13:45
Speaker 1: to break free. Where you know, we won't hang our
13:48
Speaker 1: hats too long there.
13:49
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's one of those things where it's like,
13:51
Speaker 3: does that make a lot of sense? Probably not, But
13:53
Speaker 3: it's like, I don't care the way the scene works.
13:56
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter. It's it's so good, it doesn't matter
14:00
Speaker 3: absolutely how Sophia's arc ends. And with Oz escaping here
14:06
Speaker 3: and getting to the hospital, you know, taking care of
14:08
Speaker 3: his mom, taking care of his wound and looking his
14:11
Speaker 3: wounds in more than one way, right, he's trying to
14:13
Speaker 3: reconsolidate some quick power, right, cutting deals. Sofia turns to
14:18
Speaker 3: the Triad and talks to them, are giving them the
14:25
Speaker 3: option of if you get Oswald for me, I will
14:30
Speaker 3: give you everything. I will give you the keys to
14:32
Speaker 3: the kingdom. Right and most of them, at least the heads,
14:37
Speaker 3: the heads by it. Their lieutenants on the other hand,
14:41
Speaker 3: do not. And that has a lot to do with
14:43
Speaker 3: Victor's speech at the beginning of the episode.
14:45
Speaker 2: And we'll come back to Victor.
14:48
Speaker 3: But Sofia, Sophia, you know, in this sequence, we find
14:53
Speaker 3: out Oz has been captured by Lao and she burns
14:58
Speaker 3: the house. We take a notice amount of time lingering
15:02
Speaker 3: on the watch that she bought for her father on
15:04
Speaker 3: his birthday, right before she went to prison or Arkham. Rather,
15:08
Speaker 3: she goes to the airport and she's betrayed, and then
15:13
Speaker 3: she goes for a drive with Oz before he sets
15:16
Speaker 3: her up and she gets arrested. I think this is
15:20
Speaker 3: a great sequence. I love everything about this. I love
15:24
Speaker 3: the callback to he's going to drive her to getting
15:27
Speaker 3: arrested again the second time. I I just like everything
15:35
Speaker 3: about that felt very poetic. And I don't know about you.
15:40
Speaker 3: No matter how messed up Sophia is, I think I
15:44
Speaker 3: just always feel so.
15:45
Speaker 2: Bad for her. She just keeps getting the raw end
15:48
Speaker 2: of the deal.
15:48
Speaker 1: You know, Yeah, well in this case, so it's her
15:50
Speaker 1: own fault, like, oh yeah, in this case. Yeah, she
15:53
Speaker 1: can't let Penguin go, and she's completely blinded to what
15:56
Speaker 1: And this is what Vick's speech is all about, too, right,
15:58
Speaker 1: Like Penguin can relate to all of the lieutenants and
16:02
Speaker 1: all of the other people who aren't at the top
16:04
Speaker 1: of the food chain, and those people are all also
16:08
Speaker 1: sick and tired of people like Sofia in their own organizations,
16:11
Speaker 1: and so they all decide to pull together and help
16:16
Speaker 1: Penguin instead of another one of these like head guys
16:21
Speaker 1: or gals and Sofia. And so they all decide to
16:24
Speaker 1: help Penguin instead. And in the meantime, Penguin's also having
16:27
Speaker 1: a brilliant conversation with the councilman. And this is another
16:29
Speaker 1: scene where we get Penguin's like like smart's right, Like
16:35
Speaker 1: we see how really smart and resourceful he is, trying
16:38
Speaker 1: to find a way for him to come out on
16:42
Speaker 1: top here as well and be more connected. And this
16:45
Speaker 1: is of course getting the Councilman to take the credit
16:47
Speaker 1: for Sofia, you know, capturing Sofia and all the destruction
16:53
Speaker 1: she's caused. So all these things like blend together, right,
16:58
Speaker 1: the Sofia, the VICCO with Penguin, Vic's conversation with the
17:02
Speaker 1: Triad and this whole thing and the Penguin's conversation with
17:07
Speaker 1: the counselman and so really just like brilliant, really just
17:15
Speaker 1: like brilliant storytelling. Having all those parts come together at
17:18
Speaker 1: the very end, it was really fascinating.
17:21
Speaker 3: It was.
17:23
Speaker 2: I I really do I'm glad you pointed it out.
17:26
Speaker 3: I love that their their conversation in the car all
17:30
Speaker 3: the way to you know, where he holds her gunpoint
17:34
Speaker 3: is without over like overstating it, it is, you know,
17:37
Speaker 3: that argument of classism that we've seen throughout the entire
17:41
Speaker 3: show between the two of them, that the two of
17:43
Speaker 3: them like are weirdly similar in how they approach solutions
17:49
Speaker 3: right to problems. And really, when it comes down to it,
17:53
Speaker 3: the reason why they could never despite the fact that
17:56
Speaker 3: they have similar ambitions, that they have similar approaches, they
18:00
Speaker 3: could never work together because of their philosophical differences on
18:05
Speaker 3: where you started in life. Right, they're both disgusted by
18:09
Speaker 3: each other despite the fact that they are so simple.
18:13
Speaker 2: It is it is they were perfect foils to each other,
18:17
Speaker 2: and it was it was really cool to watch. I
18:21
Speaker 2: think we have to talk about the part I don't
18:23
Speaker 2: want to talk about.
18:25
Speaker 1: Why'd they do it to Vic?
18:26
Speaker 2: Why'd they do it to my boy?
18:28
Speaker 1: You know?
18:29
Speaker 2: You know Nick, you know what's so rough about this.
18:31
Speaker 2: I'm so mad.
18:32
Speaker 1: I'm so mad that it makes so much sense, but
18:35
Speaker 1: I'm still so mad about it.
18:38
Speaker 3: So I think when we first reviewed episode one, because
18:42
Speaker 3: we saw episode one of the Penguin and we couldn't
18:44
Speaker 3: wait to talk about And even in the midway point
18:48
Speaker 3: when we reviewed this show, we said this too, but
18:52
Speaker 3: we called it back all the way from the first episode, that.
18:55
Speaker 2: Victor was a doomed character.
18:58
Speaker 3: We were like, I don't know what's going to happen Victor,
19:00
Speaker 3: but I know that this does not end well for him.
19:03
Speaker 3: He's definitely gonna die at some point during this show,
19:06
Speaker 3: and I feel like it's gonna be Oswald's fault.
19:08
Speaker 1: You know, you know, you know what this perfect analogy
19:13
Speaker 1: is between Penguin and vic Penguin has Dumbledore and Vickers
19:17
Speaker 1: Harry Potter. Penguin was just keeping him alive until the
19:22
Speaker 1: proper moment Penguin needed him, until he zied him anymore,
19:27
Speaker 1: and then he was like goodbye forever.
19:28
Speaker 2: Basically the same thing. It's the same thing. He raised
19:32
Speaker 2: him like a lamb to the slaughter, exactly. It was.
19:40
Speaker 2: It was so hard. It was so much worse than
19:42
Speaker 2: I thought it was gonna be. You know, I thought
19:44
Speaker 2: it was gonna.
19:44
Speaker 3: Be like a moment where he had to like choose
19:46
Speaker 3: like Victor or his mom or something, or like victor
19:49
Speaker 3: or power.
19:50
Speaker 2: And it wasn't that. It was so unnecessary.
19:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Vic, the whole reason he was even there
19:55
Speaker 1: at the end is because of the grooming that he
19:58
Speaker 1: did with Vic and bringing Vic up and like and
20:01
Speaker 1: Vic stayed. Vic was like on a train on a
20:04
Speaker 1: bus four episodes ago. He was like right there, and
20:07
Speaker 1: then he decided to come back and save Penguin. And
20:09
Speaker 1: then he saved He say Penguin three times, like in
20:12
Speaker 1: the four episodes between him deciding not to get on
20:15
Speaker 1: a bus with this girl and and and all, and
20:18
Speaker 1: then he's like, you know you're my family now oz
20:21
Speaker 1: or whatever. And the second he said that, fucking young
20:27
Speaker 1: young Oswald cobbopot took over.
20:31
Speaker 3: Uh you you hear it in his voice too, right,
20:34
Speaker 3: Like as soon as he says you're like family to me,
20:36
Speaker 3: you hear it in Colin Ferrell's voice where he's like
20:40
Speaker 3: fuck fuck Vic, and like he doesn't say.
20:43
Speaker 2: The next part, but you can almost hear him saying,
20:45
Speaker 2: like why just say that, Vic, Why just say that?
20:50
Speaker 3: Uh?
20:50
Speaker 2: Like everything about his demeanor changes. You see the arm
20:53
Speaker 2: come across the shoulder. You're like, no, no.
20:55
Speaker 1: No, any other words, any other word, but family. You
20:59
Speaker 1: would have been fine. Dude's so gruesome too, like not gruesome.
21:04
Speaker 2: He just like choked him to death.
21:05
Speaker 3: Like h But it's that betrayal, that's so. It was
21:11
Speaker 3: when Vic was most vulnerable to him, right, like he
21:14
Speaker 3: basically said, yeah, it's brutal.
21:19
Speaker 1: You know what pisses me off the most. Though, Like
21:21
Speaker 1: the next scene, I think it's almost the next scene
21:24
Speaker 1: we get well, I think actually we get up in between,
21:29
Speaker 1: we get like we get to see Penguin in his like,
21:31
Speaker 1: you know, tuxedo, which was really cool. Finally we got
21:35
Speaker 1: the top hat tuxedo Penguin fantastic. But after that, all
21:40
Speaker 1: of a sudden, he's dancing with Eve and like I
21:46
Speaker 1: was like, okay, well you just killed Vic. So I mean,
21:49
Speaker 1: is an Eve a loose end too? Now Eve's not
21:53
Speaker 1: a loose end. Eve can stay alive for some reason,
21:55
Speaker 1: even though Eve was like the one who also told
21:57
Speaker 1: Sofia where Penguin was originally early in the series. But no,
22:01
Speaker 1: Eve can stay. Eve doesn't have to die.
22:04
Speaker 2: I think the reason why.
22:05
Speaker 3: I think the reason why he keeps Eve alive is twofold,
22:09
Speaker 3: a like he needs someone to fill that mom role.
22:15
Speaker 3: That's even something that I think we talked about in
22:17
Speaker 3: the Midway review of this. Yeah, and Eve that they
22:22
Speaker 3: have told us that Eve is this person to him.
22:25
Speaker 3: I don't think that they necessarily did the greatest job
22:29
Speaker 3: in showing us that until the finale. But yeah, I
22:35
Speaker 3: think that's why he needs her to be around. Plus,
22:38
Speaker 3: like he's paying her right like to be around. And
22:42
Speaker 3: I think there is a degree of separation in his mind,
22:44
Speaker 3: like he could sacrifice Eve for collateral damage, right, Like
22:48
Speaker 3: I could see that even though he tried to like take.
22:51
Speaker 2: Her with him.
22:53
Speaker 3: I don't think he's nearly as attached to Eve as
22:56
Speaker 3: he was Vic. Because I think with Vic, like he
22:59
Speaker 3: saw himself in Vic, right, he wanted to believe that
23:02
Speaker 3: Vic could be like a young Oswaldt coble Pott or
23:06
Speaker 3: Oswald Copp forgot he's not cole Pott in the show,
23:11
Speaker 3: but I don't know that's I I hear you. And
23:14
Speaker 3: in defensive Vic it is bs because we're if we're
23:20
Speaker 3: removing all weaknesses. Eves should have been the first to go.
23:26
Speaker 3: He was the goodest of boys. Bless him and like Jrulie,
23:31
Speaker 3: like shout out to Renzi Felice who uh brought that
23:35
Speaker 3: character to life, managed to really sell that stutter so good. Okay, no, Lie,
23:43
Speaker 3: one of his like coldest moments was when like Sophia
23:46
Speaker 3: was reaching for his gun or for her gun, and
23:49
Speaker 3: like he's already got a gun on her and he's
23:51
Speaker 3: just like drop it, give it to me, like just
23:54
Speaker 3: like it is simple line, dude.
23:55
Speaker 1: His character Ark was so awesome and then they killed him.
23:58
Speaker 1: It's just like, man, this is like the cool the
24:02
Speaker 1: best character arc of the show in my opinion.
24:05
Speaker 2: Vic I actually I think I agree with you. So
24:08
Speaker 2: he was the funnest to watch.
24:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, like my favorite character actually, even though like obviously
24:13
Speaker 1: all of the performances are AMMI worthy, but there was
24:16
Speaker 1: something about his character that was so cool and then.
24:18
Speaker 2: They freaking killed him.
24:19
Speaker 1: I'm so pissed this. I'm gonna I'm gonna rate this
24:22
Speaker 1: show so poorly because they killed Vic.
24:25
Speaker 3: Don't watch the peg when it sucks, you know what?
24:28
Speaker 3: They they deserve it. Write them low. I love Vic.
24:33
Speaker 3: I mean I'm not gonna do.
24:34
Speaker 2: That, but you should.
24:38
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, his speech to the gangsters and it clearly
24:41
Speaker 3: touched some of them, right, It's yeah. Vic was just
24:45
Speaker 3: such a great character, and I love that we were
24:48
Speaker 3: able to use him uh in so many ways right
24:51
Speaker 3: as a way to show us what.
24:55
Speaker 2: Odds values in life?
24:57
Speaker 3: Right, we were able to explore the flood disaster through
25:02
Speaker 3: the eyes of Vic, right, well, like we got to
25:04
Speaker 3: see like a whole different part of Gotham through Vic,
25:07
Speaker 3: and that was.
25:07
Speaker 2: Really cool cool.
25:08
Speaker 3: And then of course we get to watch Vic grow
25:11
Speaker 3: into this gangster right, yeah, he was. He was just
25:15
Speaker 3: such a pleasure to watch on this show. Definitely one
25:17
Speaker 3: of the highlights for me. I uh I kind of
25:22
Speaker 3: brought us back. You were segueing us there into a
25:26
Speaker 3: into the true ending of this show, which, as you
25:29
Speaker 3: pointed out, it's a Eve and Oswald in his full
25:34
Speaker 3: Penguin motif, dancing and telling Eve that there's nothing that
25:39
Speaker 3: can stand in his way now. And of course this
25:43
Speaker 3: is just moments before he was looking out the balcony
25:47
Speaker 3: with his mom, giving her the life that he promised
25:51
Speaker 3: her that she would always get and probably the most
25:55
Speaker 3: ft up version of it.
26:01
Speaker 2: Facts.
26:02
Speaker 3: But then we get our little teaser at the end
26:04
Speaker 3: there of the bat signal, and and it concludes with
26:10
Speaker 3: Penguin asking Eve to get the the words of comfort
26:16
Speaker 3: that he could never and will never get from his mom. Right,
26:20
Speaker 3: just this really pathetic, you know, grow desire from this
26:25
Speaker 3: gruesome monster.
26:27
Speaker 2: It was gross. It was it was gross. Yeah, but
26:31
Speaker 2: I think this I.
26:33
Speaker 3: Think this show did an amazing job in taking this
26:38
Speaker 3: character and twisting him into the most vile and despicable
26:44
Speaker 3: way possible, because you know what, I was cheering for
26:46
Speaker 3: Oz all the way through this show.
26:49
Speaker 2: Until he killed Vic.
26:51
Speaker 3: And now, just like the rest of Gotham, I well,
26:54
Speaker 3: it's crazy, like this show is.
26:55
Speaker 1: All about villains. We've had this discussion. It's a villain
26:57
Speaker 1: TV show. There's no heroes, right, except there something about
27:01
Speaker 1: Vic and even Penguin that wears more her hero like
27:06
Speaker 1: in the villain sense, just because they were obviously like
27:08
Speaker 1: against Sophia. And then the second he kills Vic, I'm like,
27:11
Speaker 1: Vick was the hero the whole time and now he's dead. Facts,
27:16
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, just ah, they really did. They really
27:22
Speaker 1: made you love him. And then for Penguin, they made
27:24
Speaker 1: us like really appreciate this villain. And then now at
27:27
Speaker 1: the very end, it's kind of like, well, well, now
27:30
Speaker 1: I hate you Penguin for killing Vic. But but the
27:33
Speaker 1: reason I guess they did that to us is so
27:36
Speaker 1: we go into Batman too not liking the Penguin because
27:39
Speaker 1: you can't go into a Superhero film and like the
27:40
Speaker 1: bad Guy, it's not allowed apparently.
27:46
Speaker 2: Not a bad point. Not a bad point. We can't
27:47
Speaker 2: be cheering for the penguin.
27:48
Speaker 1: We be cheering for the penguin and Batman too, we
27:50
Speaker 1: have to be cheering for Bruce Wayne.
27:51
Speaker 3: And I uh, I will say that that segues really beautifully,
27:57
Speaker 3: and I will just be very brief about this about
27:59
Speaker 3: my number one.
28:00
Speaker 2: I'm dislike about this show. Where in the world was Batman?
28:04
Speaker 2: Where the world is Batman?
28:06
Speaker 3: Because like ninety nine percent of the show, I'm like, okay,
28:09
Speaker 3: like it's all staying pretty gangster, it's all staying pretty
28:12
Speaker 3: low level, like, you know, he can't be everywhere I get.
28:15
Speaker 2: There was a.
28:16
Speaker 3: Huge explosion in the Crown Point, right, this huge neighborhood,
28:21
Speaker 3: and Batman's nowhere to be. See.
28:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you forget Batman's Bruce Wayne, and Bruce Wayne
28:26
Speaker 1: doesn't care about you know, Oh, oh my god, point
28:31
Speaker 1: that's destroyed.
28:33
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you're right.
28:37
Speaker 1: Oh no, Bruce, Sound Point was destroyed.
28:40
Speaker 2: So Bruce, what are you doing?
28:42
Speaker 3: Oh?
28:44
Speaker 2: Just another billionaire that does nothing for a billionaire, that's
28:48
Speaker 2: for the penguin. We keep we keep teasing the rating.
28:54
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go hide. I'm gonna give it.
28:57
Speaker 3: A ninety eight because Emmy's baby, Emmy's baby, Let's go
29:00
Speaker 3: nine eight.
29:01
Speaker 1: Well, man, I wish I remember when I gave Agatha.
29:08
Speaker 2: But I think you gave We both gave the same score.
29:10
Speaker 2: You gave it a nine to three.
29:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds about right. I was thinking I gave
29:13
Speaker 1: it a nine to four. Yeah, honestly, damn, that show
29:16
Speaker 1: is really good. But I wanted to give like Penguin.
29:18
Speaker 1: I was gonna say nine to six, nine point six
29:20
Speaker 1: for Penguin for me, really awesome.
29:24
Speaker 2: It's give it.
29:26
Speaker 3: Just yeah, all the ebbs, let's go maybe, And what's next?
29:32
Speaker 2: I think next time?
29:34
Speaker 3: I think next time we're gonna have to do a
29:36
Speaker 3: What's on Your List, which is a game that Nick
29:39
Speaker 3: and I play in which we tried to convince the
29:41
Speaker 3: other to put a show and or movie on their
29:45
Speaker 3: list that they haven't already been watching or turned onto.
29:48
Speaker 3: So that will be for next time. But if you're
29:51
Speaker 3: interested in keeping up with us on whatever it is
29:54
Speaker 3: that we're currently watching, Nick, what's the best way they
29:55
Speaker 3: can do that?
29:57
Speaker 1: Sure? Everyone, you can find us on YouTube, hit the
29:59
Speaker 1: subscribe button for us, give us the like let us
30:01
Speaker 1: know in the comments what you think, and we're also
30:04
Speaker 1: on threads. At May the review would be with you
30:07
Speaker 1: and Instagram at May the review be with you, and
30:10
Speaker 1: until next time, made the review with you. Peace,