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Transcript

"Climate Change of Heart." · Pod Save America

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: I'm Tommy Vitor.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: We haven't been together for a pod in a while.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: That's true.
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: You feeling better?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I feel great.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: Did you get it from Biden officially now that we're
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: past it?
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: I told an audience you did.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Actually, I think I gave it to Manchin, Manchin gave
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: it to Biden.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Oh, that makes sense. What about Schumer? Schumer had it too.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the symptoms of COVID is
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: making deals. You know?
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Boo. Boo. Leave that one in there.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Yep, leave it in. It's fine.
• 0:51
  Speaker 4: I don't care.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: On today's show, the fate of the Manchin miracle lies
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: in the hands of Kyrsten Sinema. Democrats' prospects of holding
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the Senate may be brightening with just 100 days to go.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: And later, Wisconsin Senator Tammy Baldwin talks to Lovett about
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: protecting same-sex marriage and democracy. But first, episode two of
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Another Russia is now out. This week, Zhanna and Ben
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: dive into Boris Nemstov's political journey as he becomes deputy
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: prime minister of Russia and discovers whether his idealism can
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: trump money, power, and corruption. Listen to new episodes of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Another Russia each Monday at wherever you get your podcasts.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: It's such a good show. I was listening to the
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: first episode a couple days ago, and Zhanna is talking
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: about how her parents, when she was a kid, when
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: they went out to dinner or whatever, would just leave
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: her home alone and then tell her there were wolves
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: on the ground so that she would stay in her bed.
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: I'm going to try that.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Quite a cultural gulf between us and some of our
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Russian friends, but a fascinating story. We could do it
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: with coyotes.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: You'll love it as coyotes.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: There's coyotes everywhere on the East Side, and that's fine.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: It's a brood?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: I think just a pack.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Anyway, enough about your problems. Another Russia.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Great show. Download it.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: Subscribe.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: Before we start, it's your last chance to see us
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: live and on tour this summer. For these last two shows,
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: we have some... We saved some incredible guests for the end.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: We got Stacey Abrams in Atlanta on August 13th, and
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Tennessee congressional candidate Odessa Kelly in Nashville on August 12th.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Got some other... guests coming up too that we're going
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: to announce big announcements we will also be joined by
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Josie Duffy Rice who you know and love from our
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: What A Day podcast at Crooked she's going to be
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: a co-host for both of our shows tickets are on
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: sale now and selling out fast so go get yours
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: at crooked.com slash events come say hi alright let's get
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: to the news this is the week we find out
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: whether the mansion miracle is real or whether Kirsten Sinema
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: yanks away the football one last time I don't want
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: that Our boy from West Virginia, who we have always
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: told you would come through in the end. How many
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: times have we said that on this program?
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Hundreds of times.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Hundreds of times. We always said that. He was out
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: on the Sunday shows this weekend trying to sell what
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: they're now calling the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022. I
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: like it. I mean.
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: Simple.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Simple.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Easy to remember.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: We'll never have to say the other phrase again. Nope.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: I don't want to say it. Nope. Nope.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Doesn't exist. This was Joe Manchin's message to his good
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: friend from Arizona this weekend.
• 3:22
  Speaker 5: I think that basically when she looks at the bill
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: and sees the whole spectrum of what we're doing and
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: all of the energy we're bringing and all the reduction
• 3:29
  Speaker 5: of prices and fighting inflation by bringing prices down, by
• 3:32
  Speaker 5: having more energy, hopefully she will be positive about it. But,
• 3:35
  Speaker 5: you know, she'll make her decision.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I respect that. Yeah, hopefully she'll be positive about it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: There's an understatement. So I know Tommy went over the
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: deal's headlines on Thursday's pod with Adisu, who's fantastic. Got
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: to get Adisu back on the pod.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Anytime.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: Great, great guest co-host. But there's been a lot more
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: reporting about the details over the weekend. Lovett, what's your
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: general reaction to the deal? Let's get a take here
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: on Pod Save America from you.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you for the opportunity.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I know you had your variety show where you talked
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: about this.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the thing. So, first of all, you know,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: they always say, oh, well, we've got to dig into
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: the details. Devil's in the details. And you expect you're
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: going to find, like, Coal museums on the National Mall.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: Houseboat subsidies.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: It's really good. A coal museum would be a fine trade.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: On the National Mall?
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: Sure. It doesn't have to be the size.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: We don't have Spielberg's hideous World War II memorial. We
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: obviously support the veterans, but it's still ugly. It shouldn't
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: be in the middle of the mall. They didn't do
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: a good job designing it. It's a good cause, but
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: it's an ugly memorial.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: I officially quit the show.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Leave all that in.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: Obviously, I'd be fine with it, but I thought that's
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: what it would be.
• 4:44
  Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I know.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: But it's actually really good. You talked about it with Heather,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: that it meets four-fifths of the goals of Build Back Better.
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: There was one climate expert and professor who just shouted
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: on social media, this is real, in relief. Estimates by
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: policy experts say this could get you anywhere from 31%
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: to 44% of the reduction of climate pollution relative to 2005.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: That's a big leap from where we are now.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: By 2030, too.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: By 2030. That's a big leap from where we are now.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: And the Biden administration goal, the goal is 50 to
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: 52 percent. So it it puts that in the realm
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: of the possible. We'd have to do a lot more
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: to get there. But getting to 44 percent on our
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: way to 50 percent is a pretty amazing step forward.
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: And the Biden goal of 50 percent, by the way,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was a goal that he arrived at after really being
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: pushed in the primary by Democrats. both other candidates and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: climate activists. So that in itself was a pretty laudable goal.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: It's a huge reduction. Like this would be a very,
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: very big deal.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: And, you know, the tax credits in the deal are
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: more like direct payments. You get the money guaranteed for
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: 10 years if you build a plant that generates carbon-free electricity.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Up until now, it's been like a year, two year.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: The tax credits last, which is harder for businesses to
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: make decisions around. Tax credits for electric vehicles, up to $ 7, 500,
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: though they're means tested. So if you're super rich, you
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: can't get it. rebates for people who buy energy efficient
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: appliances or make their homes energy efficient. Yeah, it's the
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: biggest climate investment in history, four times bigger than the
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: climate investment from the Recovery Act in 2009. And that
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: was the previous leader of the biggest climate investment in history.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: And one other piece of this too is we're obviously
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: focused on climate change. This is a bill that's focused
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: on reductions aimed at curbing climate pollution, but the knock-on
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: effects of that on the kind of harmful pollution that
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: causes asthma, that causes premature deaths, that causes a lot
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: of illness That just causes our communities, especially poorer communities,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: to just be worse places to live in. This will
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: make a huge difference. There's one line. It's a small
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: piece of this. It's $ 1 billion for clean, heavy-duty vehicles
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: like buses and garbage trucks. And that's just one line.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: It's not a big piece of this. But just making
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: those changes to put clean vehicles on the road would
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: reduce a ton of pollution that just harms a lot
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: of kids every single day. It will just make communities
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: safer and better places to live.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: Should we talk about the shitty parts? Yeah, sure. Tom,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: do you want to do the shitty parts?
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, they're shitty, but they're shitty in the short term.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Short term shitty. Does that work? So it will require... Well,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: it could be long term shitty too.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that meant.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: It will require the US government to open new locations
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: for oil and gas leasing in Alaska and the Gulf
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: of Mexico. And it will forbid the government from selling
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: leases to install solar or wind on federal lands or
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: sea floors when it isn't also open oil and gas.
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: And then at some point in the near future, it
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: hasn't been written yet, literally, there's going to be a
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: bill about permitting reform that will probably make it easier
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: for to create fossil fuel projects, but it could also
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: make it easier to create wind farms and renewable projects.
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: So there is some bad to take with the good,
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: but I think on balance, almost every expert I've read
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: thinks this is a wildly important bill.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: And one thing just to add, because that was my
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: question too, about sort of what is the impact of
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: these leases, these estimates that the reduction that could be
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: as high as 44%, those incorporate the effect of expanded
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: oil and gas leasing. They are trying to include the
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: effects of those kind of all of the above provisions
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: in making those estimates.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, some calculations on that. The National Resources Defense Council
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: ran the numbers. They said that the emissions cuts would
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: be 10 times greater than the effects from the support
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: the deal extends to fossil fuels. So another way to
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: think about it is for every one ton of carbon
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: emissions that the deal puts out, it takes away 24 tons.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: It's a good deal. It's a pretty good deal. And also,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: you know, it's a good deal because the coal industry...
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: says that it will hurt the coal industry. The head
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: of a trade group there said that West Virginia would
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: actually be one of the states with the largest number
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: of coal retirements due to the wind and solar tax credits.
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: They're upset about that, but that's a good thing.
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: This permitting reform, it's a big question. How will they
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: come together to make this work? But it's also true
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: that you see a lot of NIMBY types who won't
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: let solar farms or wind farms go up on their
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: property or in their area, and we need to make
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: it easier to create those projects or else we're going
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: to get stuck in bureaucratic morass and never do anything.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Tommy, what else do we know about how this thing
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: came together? There's a couple of big pieces about that
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: over the weekend.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, victory has a thousand fathers, but defeat is
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: an orphan, right? So a lot of people are taking
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: credit here.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: And mothers.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: And, you know, just parents. Yeah.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: You know, non-binary people create political victories too, Tommy.
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: Okay, that is factually right. So the White House is
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: out there talking about how Brian Deese, who runs the
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: National Economic Council, you know, made a trip to West Virginia,
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: was keeping an open line to Manchin. Every senator or
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: member or congressman who's talked to Joe Manchin in the
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: last six months is dishing on whatever they did. I
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: forget who it was. Someone was talking about how they
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: were printing out climate change news for him and passing
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: it on.
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: I think it was one of the– both of the
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: Delaware bros are taking credit for this, Coons and Carper.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: They're just like, here's a flood. Both of Dan's potential opponents.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: We're hearing about CEOs like Bill Gates calling him and
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: talking about jobs that could be created in West Virginia.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Our friend Larry Summers, liberal lion, liberal hero. liberal icon.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: Larry Summers called to talk about how the bill would
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: not lead to more inflation. I think one of Larry's
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: points is there's a provision in there that would give
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: the IRS more resources to do its job and get
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: taxes from people who owe them. And Larry thinks that
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: the Congressional Budget Office and the way they've scored the
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: impact of that additional spending is wildly under the estimate
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: that he thinks it'll be impact. He thinks it'll have,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: he thinks it'll recoup lots more money.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, he thinks it'll be better.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he thinks it's better than the CBS. That's a
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: nerdy point. Ultimately, I do think we have to take
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: mention at his word that he was worried about inflation.
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: He was worried about the deficit and that this current
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: bill is just vastly different than the $ 3 trillion Build
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: Back Better bill that was basically the entire Biden agenda
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: stuffed into one package. I also think Manchin was genuinely
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: worried about energy security, and he didn't want to just
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: phase out fossil fuels immediately. A cynic can say that's
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: because he's a fossil fuel state resident. He has fossil
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: fuel donors because he makes money off of coal himself.
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: But I think there's also a fair conversation to be
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: had about whether, if we're going to need oil and
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: gas in the short term, do you want to get
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: it in the U.S., or do you want Joe Biden
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: jumping on a plane to Saudi Arabia to lavish attention
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: on Mohammed bin Salman? to try to get them to
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: release more oil. Obviously, I'd rather we have all wind
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: in renewables today, but I don't.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Have a vote.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: It's also, it is funny too that this is now,
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: when I talked to Jen Psaki on the pod in January,
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: it was at a period of time when it seemed
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: like this might all be kind of lost. And we
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: were joking at the time saying, well, why don't we
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: just let Joe Manchin go off and write the fucking bill?
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: And then he did.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: And it's- The obvious answer the whole time, right?
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: But what's interesting about it is it's this sort of
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: irony that then, okay, this West Virginia coal senator gets
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: to take credit for the biggest investment in clean energy
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: and climate change policy in American history, when really what
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: he has done is just made his yes vote the
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: hardest vote to get, or the second hardest vote to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: get so far.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And he gets to frame it how he wants
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: to frame it. That's right. Which is an inflation thing.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: But even at the end, even as he was writing
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: it himself, or working with Schumer to write it himself,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: it almost fell apart because of the inflation numbers. And
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: then I do think Manchin felt a little, it does
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: seem like Manchin wants to be seen as a reasonable person, right?
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Not necessarily by us or people like us.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: He hates us, especially not us.
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: But certainly by sort of like the broader institutional set
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: in Washington, D.C. And I think it felt like he
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: might have worried that he was seeming unreasonable towards the end.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: And look, I think it seems like what happened here
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: was that Joe Manchin was a persuadable voter and who genuinely,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: like you said, genuinely wanted to do something about climate change,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: wanted a solution that would help his state and his
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: own politics and was genuinely worried about inflation. You can
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: disagree with him. I do. We do on a whole
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: bunch of issues. The guy is just a conservative Democrat
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: who has conservative positions on a bunch of issues that
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: I don't agree with at all. I think where I
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: know I made the mistake is like, I think Assuming
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: that someone is operating in bad faith, which I, by
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: the end, did. I didn't start there, but by the end,
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: I was convinced he was operating in bad faith.
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: You started by calling him dumb.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Well, I think there's some details that John.
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Hey, hey, hey, hey.
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: Glass half full.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: We don't say those kinds of things about our friend John.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I did. I started by calling... The whole time I
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: was like, is he just dumb or is this a
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: bad faith play? And then by the end, I was like, oh,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: it's bad faith. But the mistake there, Joe Biden always
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: says this, you should never assume people's motivations, is because
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: if you assume people's motivations, then you give up in
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: trying to persuade them. And maybe they are operating out
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of bad faith. But what if they're not and you
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: just gave up on trying to persuade them? Clearly, a
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of senators that work with Joe Manchin, climate activists,
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: business leaders, a bunch of other people that he trusted,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Larry Summers, economists, all work together to to get him
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: in the right place. And he was clearly persuaded over time.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: And that is, I think, a good lesson in politics
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: in general.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: And I also think one piece of this is we
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: sort of lamented that his statements had been confusing and
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: sometimes contradictory. And it turns out one of the reasons
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: that at times it seemed open to a bill than
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: at times would close the door is because he got pissed.
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that he was operating in bad faith. He
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: admits it himself. I got angry.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Do I think he should have gotten angry by that statement?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: No.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: He should not have.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: It was absurd.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: He also played his politics really well. His approval went
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: from 40% to 57% approval in his state. He played
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: this brilliantly for himself.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: Though if he really wanted to– I do think that
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: politically for him, if he did no deal at all,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: he would still be in a great political position, which
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: was why the politics are definitely in his– Yeah, that's
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: what always worried me. The politics are definitely in his
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: favor here. But as you just heard the head of
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that coal mine industry group say– Like a bunch of
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: West Virginia coal mines are going to get retired because
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of this bill. If Joe Manchin really wanted to just
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: play his politics at all, he would have done no deal.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: And he didn't do that because there's multiple motivations at
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: play here. And I do think like, you know, you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: could play the counterfactual. What if Senate Democrats had said,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: fuck Joe Manchin, let's take away his committee assignments. Who
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: cares if he leaves the party? We would have no
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: chance of a climate deal right now. I'm not going
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: to say climate deal because we don't have it yet,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: but we would have no chance of a climate.
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Deal right now. I mean, I also think Manchin's smart
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: enough to know that, that, coal power plants are going
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: out of business because the economics are no longer working
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: for them that is correct you know natural gas there's
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: other cheaper forms of energy i do think the lesson
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: the meta lesson for me is it's always better to
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: be in the majority and have power no matter what
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: right we have a lot of people got so frustrated
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: with mansion and they said let's kick him out of
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: the party we don't need him that is dumb that
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: is dumb be in power then you can do things
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: you get judges passed you can pass this bill out
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: of nowhere pass the chips act pass the um the,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: the roads legislation, the infrastructure bill. Like we've got a
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: lot of things done now in hindsight.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Well, it's just like, look at your choices, right? Do
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I wish that Joe Manchin was replaced by a more
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: liberal center from West Virginia?
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: Of course.
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: Is that possible right now?
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: No, it's not.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: So you work with what you have.
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: We haven't heard from, from Kirsten Sinema. Let's talk about
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: future problems as of this recording, but what do we
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: know about where she is on these provisions and how
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: much trouble she might cause here?
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Those are two different questions. You know, Manchin, you played
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: part of the clip, but what also he has been
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: saying on the Sunday shows, he's basically trying to put
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: her in a position to declare victory. He said, Kyrsten
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Sinema is a friend of mine. We work very closely together.
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: She had tremendous, tremendous input in this legislation. She basically
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: insisted on no tax increases. We've done that. She was very,
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: very adamant about that. I agree with her. She was
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: very instrumental on prescription drugs. So I think he's trying
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: to give her the space to say, yeah, I'm out
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: here taking the credit, but this is, this can be
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: your victory too. And the only, I think she's not
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: said anything. We've been like sort of, as we've been
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: getting towards this recording, just waiting to see if we
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: hear more from her. But I think the hope has
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: to be, and we don't know. I think the hope
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: has to be that she knows she's in a position
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: to get something and that it's not something that kind
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: of undoes anything that's part of this deal, but some
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: additional funding for solar or other kinds of technology for Arizona,
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: some kind of victory for cinema that she can, you know,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: get her pound of flesh and, you know, then go
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: celebrate at Hot Topic or whatever.
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, the thing we think she's going to be
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: mad about is the $ 14 billion in tax increases by
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: closing the carried interest loophole, which basically makes hedge fund
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: guys pay their fair share of taxes. That's a tough
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: fight to pick for her.
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: The question is whether she calls that an increase, right?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: It's not an increase. It's a closed loophole, right? Has
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: she been really upset about rates?
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: When you work at like a private equity fund or
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: a hedge fund, you get paid by a management fee,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: which is usually 2% of assets under management, and then
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: something called cared interest, which is usually 20%. They treat
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: that 20%, which is the primary way they make money,
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: as a long-term capital gain and not as income, which
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: is what it really is. And so they pay about
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: half of the tax rate that anyone else pays. on
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: their income taxes, which is outrageous. Even like the super rich,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: the richest of rich Bill Ackman hedge fund guy is
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: out there saying, this is a crazy loophole. This should
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: be closed. It's like, I don't know how she carries water.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Trump said he was going to close this.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: I don't even think this provision closes it completely either.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: It like comes halfway to, which is maybe gives her
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: a space for, to declare victory too. It's also, by
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: the way, like you said, Tommy, it's $ 14 billion out
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: of $ 389 billion in the deals. 3% of the deal, right?
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: It's not, um, Now, she said she's going to wait
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: for the parliamentarian to score this, right? The Senate parliamentarian,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: for everyone who remembers talking about this last year, has
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to go through and make sure that every provision affects
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: the budget and that there's not provisions in there that
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: don't affect the federal budget. So the parliamentarian will score
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: the bill, say how much it actually raises, how much
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: it will affect the deficit, how much taxes, all that
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: kind of stuff. There's also like, you know, I think
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: that Sinema basically has agreed to all of these energy
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: provisions in the past. She helped write the prescription drug
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: reform part of this, the ACA subsidies on board. So
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: it could only be in the taxes. The other big
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: tax part of this bill that we haven't talked about
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: is the corporate minimum tax, which is another crazy thing.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: Like right now, there are some mega corporations that basically
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: move their profits overseas so they can avoid paying taxes
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: at all, or certainly less than the 21% corporate rate.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: And this is basically saying, hey, there has to be
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: a minimum 15 percent tax for all for all corporations
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: that have over one billion dollars in profit.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: And by the way, even there, there's still exceptions because
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: they get to take advantage of tax credits.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: So the question, I think, is can Sinema claim she
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: has successfully prevented the tax increases she claimed she was against?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: Because these aren't rate hikes. These are kind of loophole
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: closing policy shifts that that she could that she could
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: get behind. Like, is there is can she can she.
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: And Republicans.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: Can this not be her making any kind of concessions?
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: Can she claim that?
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: And Republicans are already out because the Joint Committee on
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Taxation scored this and said, oh, there are some people
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: who make under $ 400, 000 that will feel the impact of this, right?
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: Their taxes won't go up. But what will happen is-
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: What does that even mean? They're calculating that if some
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: corporation who's paying no taxes now has to pay a
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: minimum tax rate, that they will then have lower wages.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: They will cut wages for their workers ultimately.
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: So let's just cut the corporate income tax to zero.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Right. It's a ridiculous analysis. It doesn't take into effect
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: the health care subsidies in the bill, the energy. subsidies
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: that will help lower people's energy bills, the prescription drug stuff.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: It doesn't take into account any of that, which is ridiculous.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: They also want to, they also now, you know, they're
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: now running around saying abolish the IRS. They don't want anyone,
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: anyone wealthier to pay taxes at all.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: That is at the core of the Republican opposition to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: this bill. They hate when rich people have to pay taxes.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: They hate it.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Can we just marinate in one fun thing about this
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: whole mansion of it all and then him going out
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: on all these Sunday shows? Do you notice how Politico
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: and Politico Playbook, their flagship news product, focused not on
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: what he said, but the logistics of doing five Sunday
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: show interviews all at one time on one day, the
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: full Ginsburg. As it used to be known in the 90s.
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: Remotely.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: In the early 90s. Remotely.
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: This was the debate.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: I love that. We can't quote over the debate.
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: They had this dumb, lame debate about whether it was
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: technically a full Ginsburg era. And then just Dan quoted
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: being like, I would say, don't do it. It's not
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: worth it.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Just raining on their parade. They did this for two days.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: Two days. It was so dumb and boring. I come
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: back from vacation. I'm reading Playbook. I'm like, what is
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: going on? Two days of a discussion about the full Ginsburg?
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: You know what?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Joke's on me for raising it. It was fucking early 90s.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: No one knows what we're talking about right now.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: Allen Ginsburg, right?
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Late Ginsburg. Just kidding.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Back to the Republicans in Congress. They are outraged about
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the deal, but they're not just planning on voting against it.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: They want to take revenge on Democrats by voting against
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: other legislation that they previously supported. Most House Republicans just
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: voted against a bipartisan bill that will help the U.S.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: compete with China for jobs related to the semiconductor industry.
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: Susan Collins told reporters that Senate Republicans might sink the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: same-sex marriage bill over the Manchin deal. And 25 Republican
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: senators who had previously voted for a bill that would
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: help veterans who've been exposed to burn pits, just voted
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: to block the final version of that bill last week. Tommy,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: what's going on with the burn pits legislation, which has
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: gotten a lot of attention over the last several days?
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: And why do you think Republicans are doing this? Is
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: there a political reason or are they just morons?
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: So here's the background. The U.S. military on bases abroad
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: in Iraq and Afghanistan would burn trash, basically. That included
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: toxic substances like plastic, rubber, paint, other things that you
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: don't even want to know about. There's a lot of
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: evidence now in research that shows that people who are
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: exposed to the smoke from those burn pits have much
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: higher incidence of cancer and other really nasty medical problems.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And paying for that treatment has created a bureaucratic nightmare
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: for a lot of these veterans. So it had to
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: be solved. It was just grossly unfair. And so Congress
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: finally got it tacked together. They put together a bill
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: that would provide millions of veterans with expedited health care
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: and disability payments for these illnesses related to burn pits.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: In June, that bill passed 84 to 14. Then it
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: went to the House. They did some technical fix to it,
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: sent it back to the Senate for final passage. And
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: last week, it was 25 or 26, I'm not sure
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: what the exact total was, of Republicans changed their vote
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: and voted against the bill. Pat Toomey, the Republican senator
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: from Pennsylvania, who I don't think coincidentally is retiring, is
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: the one out leading the messaging charge on this. He's
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: trying to claim that he opposed it now because of
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: some budgetary loophole. There are these impenetrable videos from Ted
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: Cruz saying, where he's trying to talk about mandatory versus
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: discretionary spending. I'm not an expert in this, but none
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: of their arguments make sense. Every single veterans group is
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: calling bullshit on it. It seems like what happened was
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: McConnell was going to hold up the CHIPS bill, this
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: China competition bill, because he didn't want Democrats to do
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: anything via reconciliation, which is how you pass the Manchin-Schumer bill.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: Then he allowed the CHIPS bill to pass. Then Manchin-Schumer
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: announced their deal on the climate bill, and they got mad.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: And so McConnell, I guess, had these guys vote against
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: this burn pit legislation. It is long story short, this
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: is one of the most substantively outrageous and politically stupid
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: things I've ever seen. It sounds like they might fix
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: it tonight, Monday night. But I just for the life
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: of me, I can't understand what they're thinking here.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Truly.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Love it.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Can you?
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: No, I think that they decided to take a dumb
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: vote in a fit of pique. and tried to come
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: up with a fig leaf justification for it that doesn't
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: really work. And ultimately, it's very, very bad politics. But
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: it's truly some of the worst politics that we've ever seen.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: These people are dying.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Despicable, despicable move.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: People are dying within weeks of this vote.
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: And so I do think they will be for it
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: very quickly. And this will ultimately kind of disappear as
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: a kind of week-long vile gambit.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: But that's it. I don't know. It's on us to
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: make it not disappear. Veterans literally sleeping on the Capitol
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: steps as we speak right now will not leave until
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: they get a vote.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: So Pat Toomey's problem about the $ 400 billion is whether
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: you put it in the mandatory or discretionary bucket. What
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: that means is, do we make sure that there's this
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: source of funding to help veterans who've been exposed to
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: burn pits every year? Or do every year veterans have
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: to come to Congress and sleep on the steps and
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: hold hearings so they can get it into a budget
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: every year, right? Now, the only thing you can say
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: about Pat Toomey is, He's at least had that problem
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: since the beginning. This is why it's 25 or 26.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So Pat Toomey had voted against it before because of
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: this problem, because that's his problem. It's a bullshit problem.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: That's a problem. The other 25 Republican senators voted fucking
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: for it when the $ 400 billion was in mandatory spending
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: and then just changed their vote because of exactly what
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: Tommy said, because they were just pissed.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: This idea of mandatory versus discretionary spending. A dollar spent
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: is a dollar spent.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: They literally decide whether this distinction exists or not. It
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: doesn't matter. Yeah.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: No, no, no. It helps. No, you want it to
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: be mandatory.
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I want it to be mandatory because I want it
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: to be funded in the future.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: But I'm just saying it's not like more money is
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: going to magically be... He's just full of shit is
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: my point.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: He is totally full of shit, but he's not as...
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: But even more full of shit are the other 25
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Republican senators who voted for it when it was mandatory spending.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It tells of all the places where like, how could
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: we possibly... vote to have mandatory spending for veterans year
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: after year without the ability to cut it to, you know,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: fund a tax break.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is all just the technical reason so
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: that you all know. But to Tommy's point, we have
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to actually like make the argument here. And the argument
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: ahead of a midterm could not be easier here. Like,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: you know, Democrats tried to pass a bill that makes
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: sure that corporations can't move their profits overseas so that
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: they don't pay any taxes at all. in order to
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: lower people's energy bills and their health care bills. And
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Republicans didn't just block it. They then, to spite Democrats,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: voted against a bill to help sick veterans.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: It's crazy. The other really hard vote was, you know,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: on the House side, McCarthy whipped like 175 Republicans and
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: forced them to vote against the big China competition bill, which, look,
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: there are legitimate policy criticisms of that bill, the reasons
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: you could vote against it. But politically, that's a very
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: hard vote.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: I also I actually don't understand that decision either, because
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: it was very clear that it was going to pass
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: either way. They had all been for it before they
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: got before. Look, everyone's been surprised that Democrats have discovered strategy.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: It's been shocking. It's changed a lot of it's been
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: hard to kind of process for Republicans as much as
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: for us. But, OK, you're pissed that they they they
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: got one over on you and they're going to do
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: this reconciliation deal. You're going to make a point by
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: having some but not all of your members try to
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: stop a bill that's going to pass anyway? I don't
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: get it.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: I think their strategy going back as far as the
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: early Obama days is– you know, the party in power,
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Democrats are in power, Democrats are in the White House,
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: they're in Congress. We're going to break everything. We're going
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to make sure nothing works. We're going to try to
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: stop them. You know, they can't pass anything, blah, blah, blah.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: And that's going to redound to our political benefit because
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden and the Democrats don't succeed. But I think
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: they went a little too far this time because everyone
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: knows now what they did.
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: There was an open question about whether progressives might vote
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: against the CHIPS Act because they felt like it was
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: corporate welfare for, you know, understandably so, like multi hundred
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: billion dollar businesses getting huge tax breaks to create semiconductor
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: manufacturing back home. I think it's good long-term policy to
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: onshore this kind of manufacturing because it only exists in
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: parts of Asia. Like 22% of it is in Taiwan.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: And if Taiwan gets invaded, like we're in big trouble.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: But yeah, Democrats decided to get in line and say, nope,
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: we're going to vote for this thing.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: They voted against protecting American jobs and helping sick veterans.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: That's it. There's this, there you go. That's all you
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: have to know.
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: I think it's not good. I think it's not good
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: for them. It's also like, the burn it all down
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: thing doesn't work if you don't have the house and
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: things are getting passed out of the Senate.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: I was just going to say, they didn't succeed. They
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: tried to break things. They didn't succeed. So it got
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: passed and they don't get the political benefit from it
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: because now they voted against protecting American jobs and helping
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: sick veterans.
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: And they'll, well, they'll, you know, they'll, they'll still go
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: around taking, you know, they'd still take credit for the,
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: for the, uh, uh, the relief bill they didn't vote for.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: They'll take credit for wherever they can.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Infrastructure bill.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: They go home to their projects. They take pictures.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: But, uh, it's been a, it's been a, Tough week
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: for show no votes in the Republican House.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: With just less than 100 days left until the election,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: there's a decent amount of evidence that the political environment might, might,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: might be shifting in the Democrats' favor. Our friends over
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: at FiveThirtyEight.com still say Republicans are favored to win the
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: House election. though they're now basically tied with Democrats on
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: the generic ballot after being two to three points ahead
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: for the last several months. But in the race to
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: control the Senate, Democrats are now slightly favored to win.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Five thirty eight has their chances at 56 percent, which
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: is up from just 40 percent on June 1st. All right.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: With the obvious and important caveat that polls are just
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: a snapshot in time and not always the most accurate snapshot,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: the movement here is notable. Tommy, what do you think
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: might be going on with these Senate races?
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's, you know, you could sort
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: of go race by race and tell the story. I mean, Pennsylvania,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: there was a poll that had Fetterman up 10 points
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: on Dr. Oz, which I don't believe that's too much,
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: but it was jaw dropping. I think, again, like we
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: talked about, Fetterman's done such a good job of defining Dr.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Oz in Pennsylvania. Republicans are really worried about Oz's standing.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: We'll talk about that more later. In Georgia, Warnock's running
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: a strong race. He continues to do well. Herschel Walker
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: continues to be a gaffe machine. He won't debate Warnock.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: There's a bunch of coverage of, you know, children out
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: of wedlock and criticizing others for doing the same, lying
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: about working for the FBI. Arizona, we might see Blake
• 30:34
  Speaker 3: Masters win this Peter Thiel stooge who is a bona
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: fide wacko. He's got to run against Mark Kelly, an
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: astronaut who's very popular. Cortez Masto's looking better in Nevada.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: Maggie Hassan's looking better in New Hampshire. There's grumblings about J.D.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: Vance struggling in Ohio. Still probably a tough state, but
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: there's just a lot of individual races are breaking in
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: a better direction. So it just, I think, Feels better
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: out there. Love it.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think like stepping back from individual races,
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: Roe's overturned and Democrats are putting Republicans on the defensive
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: on marriage equality. The January 6th hearings are a kind
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: of low hum of Republicans being extreme. Gas prices are
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: down a bit. You have a bipartisan gun bill. You
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: have a manufacturing belt. We have this mansion deal. It's
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: not in the polling yet. Hopefully it happens. And news
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: coverage just isn't where it was a few weeks ago.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: It's still not good and it's never good. But there
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: was a period of time and it was just sort
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: of President Joseph stock plunge gridlock COVID stock plunge Robinette Biden.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: You know, say that again. Joseph stock plunge gridlock COVID
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: stock plunge gas prices Robinette Biden. I forgot gas prices.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: Gas prices falling all the time now. You can't forget
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: gas prices.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: So, and Dr.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: Oz sucks.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: And that's just sort of, they just took that one
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: off the table a bit.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I think to that point, like Tommy going through the
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Senate races, there's a difference. The difference between the Senate
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: and the House is, as a House candidate, it's really
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: hard to separate yourself from the national political party and
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the national political environment because these are smaller races and
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: you don't have as much money in them. Senate races
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: are statewide races. There's a lot of money spent on
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: making sure that every voter knows who these Senate candidates are.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: And that can be a good thing if you're a
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: good candidate and it can be a bad thing if
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: you're a bad candidate. So candidate quality matters a lot
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: more in Senate races than it does in some of
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: these House races, which is why you can sort of
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: distinguish yourself as John Fetterman has, as Dr. Oz has
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: in a way that's not helpful to his.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: Or has, you know, Herschel Walker saying, how can you
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: accuse me of something I might have done when I
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: was dissociating? That's not like the best message I've ever heard. Also,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: was I in the FBI?
• 32:34
  Speaker 5: Who knows?
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: Time will tell.
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: Vote to find out.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hard to deny a thing when you
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: just said it.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: I was in the FBI. I didn't say that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: I love that you mentioned this, but I think the
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: issue environment changing matters too. There was a recent Suffolk
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: poll where voters cited abortion as the second most important
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: issue to them. Of course, after inflation, which is still
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: a big issue, though, as you noted, gas prices have
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: started to fall. And, you know, in that same poll,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: like so few voters mentioned COVID that it wasn't even
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: in the top 25 issues that people said they were
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: concerned about. That had obviously been a drag on Joe
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: Biden's and Democrats' approval rating and just sort of the
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: general mood of the country at that point. So the
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: Republicans are a little nervous about this.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: I would be too.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: Especially about Pennsylvania. Politico ran a story this weekend. That
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: has multiple donors. It's always trouble when you have donors
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: talking to reporters. Yeah, yeah. Love when it's Republican donors,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: not when it's Democratic donors. Shut up, Democratic donors. So
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: the story has multiple donors saying that the National Republican
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: Senatorial Committee is, quote, sounding the alarm about Dr. Oz and, quote,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: freaking everybody out about his bad polling. Why do you
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: think he's doing so poorly, Tommy? And is there anything
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Democrats can learn from this race or is this a
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: unique situation?
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: What do you think the NRSC alarm sounds like? Like
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: a European fire hydrant, like a smoke detector.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Sounds like Ted Cruz motorboating a statue of Margaret Thatcher.
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: Is that allowed? Perfect.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Keep that. It would be funny if you just came
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: up with it. If you did a couple and we
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: just kept running the tapes.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: The Republican alarm is the sound Ben Shapiro makes when
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: he sees a gay kiss in a Marvel movie.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: It's like this.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: It's like this.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: The Republican Alarm is the sound of Trump cheering when
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: he realizes he can save on taxes by burying Ivana
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: on the golf course.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Oh, God.
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: That's a dark story.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: That was dark.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: Republican Alarm is the sound Ginny Thomas makes when she's
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: asked under oath if she was involved in the Dobbs leak.
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 34:26
  Speaker 3: That's it.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: Those are the ones I got.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: That's a true thing.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: If you want any more, check out my sub stack.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I got one for you.
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: A rusty bower sounds like something you looked up in
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: Urban Dictionary and you don't like. how gross and complicated
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: it was.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: How do you know you don't like it until you
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: try it, Tommy? How do you know Rusty Bowers isn't
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: exactly what the doctor ordered? You don't know. You don't know.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: I like that we just have moved on to Rusty Bowers.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Just moved on to this. Let's talk about that.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: Before it comes up.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: I don't care. Yeah, please put this anywhere.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, Dr. Oz is, he is unique. He's
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: an oppo research staffer's dream. He First of all, don't
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: run for a Senate seat in a state where you
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: are not a resident.
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: That's just a rule of thumb.
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: You gotta live in the place. How insulting is it
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: to the state of Pennsylvania for two people in that
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: primary who are not from there to run for the
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Senate seat?
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: Oh, whatever.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: We'd be for a fucking carpetbagger if we liked that.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Who gives a shit?
• 35:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, listen, it was hard for Hillary Clinton. She
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: had to move there first, though. Like, Dr. Oz still
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: lives in New Jersey. It's hurting him.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: He should have moved sooner.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: It's not just that he's from another state. It's that
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: there's so much, because he's a celebrity... There is so
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: much footage of him just basking in the glow of
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: being a New Jersey resident and talking about how much
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: he loves being from Jersey.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: Today, I mean, also he's a filthy rich and just
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: wildly out of touch with most of it. There's a
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: video the Fetterman team put out today where they have Dr.
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: Oz saying that it's hard to discern the difference in
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: happiness between someone who makes $ 50, 000 and $ 50 million. I
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: don't fucking believe you at all, buddy. I'd love to learn.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: That is so funny.
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: I would love to be as unhappy as someone who
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: makes $ 50 million. That's just a crazy thing to say.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: Honestly, he makes Mitt Romney seem like a working class hero.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: Ozzy's so bad. Ozzy's so bad. They're like, why didn't
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: we go with the hedge fund manager from Connecticut? We
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: should have gone with that private equity guy. Then we'd
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: have a shot.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: You can't wait until Dr. Oz wins this and then
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: everyone plays this back.
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: But it is Snapchat in time.
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: Fuck you.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, also his campaign is bad. Oz is running
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: a bad campaign. They went to one of the two
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: like tourist trap cheesesteak joints in Philly. And then he
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: tweeted about it. Like he was, you know, out of
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: visiting from Russia. Like he looked like a foreign, you know,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: like tourist. And like, it's just, it gave me flashbacks
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: of like John Kerry eating the cheesesteak with a tomato.
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: I was on that campaign at that time. It was
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: not great.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Well, once you're, it's really, this is why I think,
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: you know, there's the, the Federer campaign has been so
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: good about this because, Once you tag someone as a tourist,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: a lot of what a politician does when they go
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: around taking pictures, they look like a tourist. And he's
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: got that fucking rich guy skin. He goes from New
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Jersey into the Upper East Side for all of his treatments.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: And he just looks ridiculous running for Senate.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: He made himself look ridiculous. They got the Fetterman seat
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: to their great kid. They're hitting all the right notes.
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: They were relentless about you being out of town and
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: being out of touch. Like here's Dr. Oz kissing his
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Hollywood Walk of Fame star. But the turn they're making,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: and you're starting to see it more aggressively, is this
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: guy doesn't give a shit about you, doesn't care about
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: inflation or anything else. He just wants the job.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And you know what? Look, if there's a lesson here
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: for other races, because I agree that I think both
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: Oz and Fetterman are unique candidates. So you can't just
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: replicate their personalities everywhere else.
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: But.
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time talking about how Republican
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: candidates are a threat to democracy, which we should continue
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: to do. We should also probably spend time talking about
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: how Republican candidates are like a threat to working people
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: because they're out of touch and they care about rich people.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: They're all about to, you know, they're outraged about a
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: bill that's going to make billion dollar corporations pay a
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: dime of taxes. This is who the Republican Party has
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: always been. We've always done well when we've run against
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Republicans like that. And John Fetterman is doing that. against Dr.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Oz in Pennsylvania. And the other Republican targets are not
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: going to be as rich in both ways as Dr. Oz,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: but their positions are.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: Fetterman had a stroke and hasn't been able to campaign
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: for months and still up 10 points. That is remarkable.
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: That's a campaign team and staff that is doing incredible work,
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: especially the digital team and the video team.
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: And the two other things too, I would say.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: Is- Oz's digital team isn't doing any work. They haven't
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: run digital ads in about two months.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I don't think it'll help. Two other things. One, they're
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: also just, I think, having fun. They're making the campaign
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: something fun and you'd want to be a part of.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: And we've talked about this many times. Nobody wants to
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: be part of a sanctimonious and sour movement. They're making
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: politics seem like something you want to be a part of.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And they're making the Fetterman team a team you want
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: to be a part of. And I think that's really exciting.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: Such a good point.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: I think one problem Democrats make that Republicans don't, in
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: part because Republicans are served so well by their right-wing
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: propaganda apparatus, is Democrats too often look at polls as
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: something they need to live by rather than something they
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: can potentially change. The Federing campaign wanted to make Dr.
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: Oz look out of touch by pointing out the way
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: in which he was a carper beggar, making that connection.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: And they've been relentless and they've made it important. They
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: made it salient. And like finding ways to just drive something,
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: like to be relentless about it until people connect it
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: with the campaign, the candidate, make it important, I think
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: is another lesson.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: And they've connected The carpetbagger attack to the out of
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: touch because he's rich attack, right? Because you originally said
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: if it was just that he was from out of
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: state and he wasn't out of touch, that might not
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: be enough. It's the whole package. So Politico also reports
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: that the NRSC is apparently so nervous that they've started
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: making the case that they can win the Senate even
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: if Oz loses to Fetterman. They're telling donors that their
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: path is to hold Ohio, North Carolina, and Wisconsin, flip Nevada,
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: and then flip either Arizona or Georgia. I love it.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: What do you think? Is that a realistic path?
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. Of course it is.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: We could wait. They can. Dr. Oz can go back
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: to his McMansion and Republicans can still win the Senate
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: is absolutely possible. It is obviously shameful that someone as
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: unfit as Herschel Walker could get within a mile of
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: the United States Senate. But a lot of people who
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: shouldn't get in the mile of a lot of jobs
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: seem to be stumbling into them more and more in politics. So, yes,
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: of course that can happen.
• 40:38
  Speaker 3: Of course it can.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually my reaction when it was laid out
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: like that was, oh, yeah, no, this could. Yeah, because
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Nevada is tough. And Nevada in the last couple elections
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: has started drifting in the wrong direction. And I think
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: that Catherine Cortez Masto has a really tough race on
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: her hands. And then I think that, like you said,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Mark Kelly and Raphael Warnock are both running great campaigns
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: and they're great candidates, great senators. But both of those,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: we remember in 2020, both of those states were decided
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: by a razor's margin. So I think it is very
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: realistic that they could do it without Pennsylvania.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: In a tough political environment and at a time in
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: which even when we're seeing these sort of shifts that
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: make us hopeful about the polls, can't really trust them.
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: And I would say on the other side of that,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: you know, they sort of assume they'll hold Ohio, North Carolina, Wisconsin.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: I don't assume that at all. I think now we
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: have Mandela Barnes in Wisconsin, a very strong candidate. Tim Ryan,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: a very strong candidate in Ohio. Sherry Beasley, great candidate
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: in North Carolina. So I don't think they'll necessarily hold
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: those either. All right, so we'll know more about some
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: of the most important midterm races after today's primaries in Arizona, Missouri, Michigan, Kansas,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: and Washington State. Tommy, what results will you be most
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: interested in?
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: I am very interested in Arizona. Rather, I'm very worried
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: about Arizona.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell us one.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: Because you have really, you know, election deniers and truly
• 41:49
  Speaker 3: fringe candidates sort of up and down the ballot. You
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: got Carrie Lake, the Trump-appointed election denier running for governor.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Hopefully she will lose that primary, but we don't know.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Blake Masters, who is basically Peter Thiel's ghostwriter, is running
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: for the Senate seat. He's likely to win that primary.
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: And then you have a guy named Mark Fincham, who's
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: probably going to be the Republican nominee for the Arizona
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: Secretary of State race, who is an election denier and very,
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: very bad. So a lot of disconcerting themes there for
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: democracy generally or for the ability to run a fair
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: race in 2024.
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Mark Fincham, member of the Oath Keepers.
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: Terrorist fringe group.
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Bad.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Aha. Like what? I didn't know that until I was
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: actually reading about this today.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: I read that today too. That caught me by surprise.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable. And then what will become of, of course, what
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: will become of Rusty Bowers, the speaker of the Arizona
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: House who has a primary challenge.
• 42:46
  Speaker 5: Rusty B.
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Who told the truth at the January 6th committee.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: Did he flip flop now? He said he would still
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: vote for Trump. Now he's all over the place.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: He had some answer that was sort of left it open.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: He didn't say, and then now.
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: He closed the door.
• 42:57
  Speaker 5: He's a monster.
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he closed the door.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: Now he closed the door so that, Missouri, of course.
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Does Eric Greitens win? Does Trump endorse him? Could be
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: happening right now while we're recording. I know that Trump
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: was saying he's going to endorse in that race.
• 43:06
  Speaker 3: Genuinely bad person.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: Love it. Any races you're looking at?
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: Look, I emotionally, I just struggle to pay attention to
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: which right-wing fascist goon is eking out these primaries. I
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: am watching the Kansas referendum on abortion. Obviously, it's important
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: practically because Kansas is a.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: A respite and a place people can come from surrounding states.
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: It's really, really important. But also, we will learn a
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: lot about the power of arguing for reproductive freedom and
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: access to abortion at the ballot box by whatever this
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: margin is in Kansas. We'll just learn a lot from it.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: And on its own, yeah, without any candidate attached. I
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: think it's tough, too, that here at the ballot, the
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: language and that amendment, it's very confusing. It's heavily tilted
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: towards the right.
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: Republicans are lying about it.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: It's very confusing. So this is a tough... Obviously, it's Kansas,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: by the way, an extremely Republican state. There is a
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Democratic governor there, but of course, a very Republican state.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: It's very tough and it's chaotic. It's confused. But whatever
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: the margin is, I think we'll learn something about where
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: people are at on this. And then you just have
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to hope.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: They've spent almost $ 100 million in Arizona already. $ 100 million?
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Yes. Yeah, crazy. For truly some of the fringiest candidates
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: in the country.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: But why are you rooting for Rusty Bowers?
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: Arizona and Pennsylvania are in competition for swing states with
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: the fringiest right-wing candidates there. And then there's Michigan, the
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: Michigan governor's race for the primary there. There's Trump-endorsed right-wing
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: media pundit election denier Tudor Dixon is the name, who
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: also has the support of the DeVos family. So between
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: Trump and the DeVos family in a crowded field of
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: nine candidates, we'll see if she can pull it off.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: All right. So we'll talk about more of those results
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: on Thursday. Also, speaking of the midterms, thank you to
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: the thousands of you who signed up during our 100
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Days Out Week of Action. We have now had as
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: many volunteer signups so far this year as we had
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: in all of 2018.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Clap it up.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Great job.
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: You guys are amazing, which means that we have the
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: next 99 days to build on those numbers. And unlike 2018,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: we now have our Vote Save America virtual volunteer community
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that can help support our volunteers go above and beyond.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: So Go to votesaveamerica.com slash volunteer. You can learn more.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: You can sign up. Join Team West. Team East.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: Midwest.
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: Okay. Good job, everyone. Good job.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: You can fight for Fetterman. We can help in New Hampshire.
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: I got Arizona. You just heard the problems there.
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: I got Wisconsin.
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: Fetterman.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: Sign up. We'll give you plenty of work to do.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Plenty of work to do.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: We got to stop Doug Mastriano.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: Not just tweeting, you know.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Sign up. Yeah, a lot of you haven't yet.
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: Shame on you. Lovett, you were not at the Portland show,
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: but you would have yelled at so many people. We
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: did a game, an audience game, and we said, only
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: raise your hand if you signed up for Vote Save America.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: And then a bunch of people raised their hands and
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: we were like, what region are you in? They're like, well,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: I'm signing up tomorrow.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: Signing up tomorrow, yeah.
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: When we come back, Lovett talks to Wisconsin Senator Tammy
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: Baldwin about protecting same-sex marriage and democracy.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Joining us now, she is a senator from Wisconsin and
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: the first openly gay person elected to the United States Senate,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: currently working to pass the Respect for Marriage Act. Senator
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Tammy Baldwin, welcome to the pod.
• 46:35
  Speaker 4: I am so glad to join you.
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: So let's talk about the Respect for Marriage Act. Where
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: does the bill stand right now? You need 10 Republicans
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: on board. How many have agreed to support it?
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: What's next?
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: We need 10 Republicans to avoid a filibuster, and probably
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: we need... a couple more than that to avoid the
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: situation where every Senator can be identified as the deciding vote. So,
• 47:05
  Speaker 4: you know, it would be great to have 11 or 12.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: Right now we have five who have publicly stated that
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: they will vote for the Respect for Marriage Act. And
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: we have several others who are in that category of
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: having publicly proclaimed that they support marriage equality, but are
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: only privately sharing with me and others where they're leading
• 47:27
  Speaker 4: or where they are on the Respect for Marriage Act.
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: And when that's the case and they haven't said it
• 47:34
  Speaker 4: out loud, you have to be a little cautious. So
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: I feel like we're at 10, but we don't have
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: a lot more than that. And so a big question is,
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: do we need to firm that up a little bit
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: more and instead of debating it this week, maybe kick
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: it till after the August recess? Or can we fit
• 48:01
  Speaker 4: it in the end of the week because we have
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: the votes firmed up?
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: So there's been some talk, I believe Senator Susan Collins
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: mentioned this, that the compromise between Joe Manchin and Chuck
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Schumer might make it harder to pass a bill protecting
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: marriage equality. Why would increasing rebates for electric cars make
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Republicans more anti-gay? And isn't the whole point of being
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: a Republican that they're gay for corporations?
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: So the issues should have nothing to do with each other.
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: And we should be adult enough in the United States
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: Senate to be able to separate votes of conscience from politics.
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: votes about the economy and votes about other matters. But
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: I have heard repeated more than once since the reconciliation
• 48:58
  Speaker 4: agreement was reached that this has poisoned the well, if
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: you will. You know, I just don't buy it. I
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: believe that if you were going to support the Respect
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: for Marriage Act last week You should be in support
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: of the Respect for Marriage Act this week.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: So one thing that's been surprising is some of the yeses.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: And also when compared to some of the noes, I
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: was surprised to see your colleague, Ron Johnson, say he
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: was for it because technically speaking, I consider him one
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: of the Senate's biggest dipshits. But so then you have someone,
• 49:38
  Speaker 2: you don't have to acknowledge that. And then we saw
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Marco Rubio claim this thing was a waste of time,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: even though voting yes and no take the same amount
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: of time. Do you think he was frustrated when the
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: elevator door closed after he said that to find himself
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: trapped in there with the Senate's only lesbian?
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: So to be absolutely accurate, he said it was a
• 50:02
  Speaker 4: stupid waste of time.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: And then turned to his right and saw me standing
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: there looking at him as the elevator doors closed. I
• 50:14
  Speaker 4: told him very frankly why I believe it's important to
• 50:19
  Speaker 4: act and why it's important to give people in interracial
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: marriages and same-sex unions the certainty that every other married
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: couple enjoys because of how significant the legal rights and
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: responsibilities conferred with marriage really are to protecting one's family.
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: He pushed back, you know, these are not the first
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: conversations I've had on this issue, and said, you know,
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: the court is not poised to overturn Obergefell. I don't
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: believe they will. But there is a lot of reason
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: why we should be giving folks certainty And frankly, for
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: those Republicans who have been applauding the overturning of Roe
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: versus Wade and have been seeing how anxious their constituents
• 51:15
  Speaker 4: are about perception, about losing access to the rights and
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: responsibilities of marriage, this would be a great way of
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: assuring your constituents that you are still for some freedoms.
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Well, what I don't understand about that is, okay, Clarence Thomas,
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: who everyone now is recognizing as someone who is kind
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: of on the vanguard of where these right-wing extreme judges
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: eventually go, is saying he wants to turn to these
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: issues next. Rubio just says privately, oh, don't worry, this
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: isn't going to happen. What is the cost of passing
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: this bill to him? I mean, that's a dodge. What's
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: the cost? What's the harm?
• 51:59
  Speaker 4: Well, one of the things I've observed during all of
• 52:01
  Speaker 4: these discussions I've had with Republicans who I think should
• 52:07
  Speaker 4: be supportive because they have said at one time or
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: other for merit equality is I don't think that I
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: have a colleague of either party who doesn't now know
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: someone who is married. Maybe it's the neighbor, maybe it's
• 52:23
  Speaker 4: a relative, Maybe it is an old friend from college.
• 52:28
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's somebody they go to church or synagogue with.
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: But this is now accepted and commonplace among American voters.
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: And so they should have every reason to show that
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: they're not on the fringe.
• 52:47
  Speaker 2: And if.
• 52:50
  Speaker 4: People in same-sex marriages are concerned about the certainty of
• 52:53
  Speaker 4: their marriage. It's not only because of what Clarence Thomas
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: wrote in his concurrence. It's because the majority of the
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: Supreme Court said there is not a constitutional right to privacy.
• 53:09
  Speaker 4: And there are numerous cases that have been decided on
• 53:12
  Speaker 4: the constitutional right to privacy. Contraception, Lawrence, Obergefell, and so forth.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: We need to shore these up. We need to tell
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: people across this country that they do not need to
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: live in fear.
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: So the House has passed a few bills on some
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: of those issues. There's been a lot of hope on
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: part of people watching this saying, let's get these Republicans
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: in the Senate on the record on a bunch of
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: these issues where they've kind of taken an extreme position
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: on contraception, on access to abortion. on the right to travel, which, which, uh,
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: there was a vote on, uh, on a host of
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: other issues, uh, is the lesson so far on this process, uh,
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: on the respect for marriage act that like, we should
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: be taking more of these votes. We need to get
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: these centers on the record.
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: You know, for me, uh, this effort to get 10
• 54:08
  Speaker 4: or more Republican vote. Yes. Is about getting the job done.
• 54:14
  Speaker 4: And there are many issues on which I love to
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: be able to bring a vote forward and show whose
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: side people are on. Are you on the side of
• 54:26
  Speaker 4: tens of millions of women who have just lost fundamental
• 54:32
  Speaker 4: freedoms and have fewer rights than their mothers and grandmothers?
• 54:36
  Speaker 4: But on this one, I've told all the Republicans that
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: I'm working with and talking to, I just wanna pass this.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: and get rid of the fear and uncertainty. And I'm
• 54:52
  Speaker 4: not playing any games. I certainly think that there are
• 54:57
  Speaker 4: some of the opponents who are playing games, but I
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: want to get this done. I'm very serious about it.
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: So I was thinking about Marco Rubio dodging this in
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: an elevator in part because I think his current position
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: is unpopular. His current position is that Obergefell was wrongly decided,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: that we should be appointing Supreme Court justices that would
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: overturn it. It's remarkable how quickly this has changed. You
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: were the first openly lesbian member of the Wisconsin Assembly.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: People might not know this, that you proposed legalizing same-sex
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: marriage in 1994, which was a radical thing to do
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: at the time. This is at a time in which
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: you are pushing back against don't ask, don't tell, even
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: having gay people being allowed to openly serve in the military.
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: How does it feel to have been in elective office
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: during this immense period of change on this issue?
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: Boy, it feels great to have seen the slow march
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: of progress on this. I had this feeling back in
• 56:06
  Speaker 4: the mid-90s when I was in the state legislature working
• 56:10
  Speaker 4: on this and I was doing this in parallel track
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: with back then domestic partnership proposals and civil unions. I
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: just wanted ways for gay and lesbian couples to be
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: able to protect their families. And I think too often
• 56:25
  Speaker 4: when we say the word marriage, we think of the
• 56:27
  Speaker 4: marriage ceremony, but we don't think about access to a
• 56:31
  Speaker 4: loved one's bedside if they're gravely ill or injured. And
• 56:35
  Speaker 4: we don't think about many of the rights and responsibilities
• 56:40
  Speaker 4: that flow with that marriage certificate and subsequent marriage. So
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: I wanted tools for people to be able to protect
• 56:48
  Speaker 4: their families. And I believed, maybe naively, that I would
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: see that in my lifetime. Now, would it happen through
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: the legislative action, happen through the courts, a combination of both,
• 57:02
  Speaker 4: which was actually sort of the slow march to this point,
• 57:06
  Speaker 4: It was sort of all of the above. And we
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: took a lot of steps backwards before we took steps forward.
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: By that, I mean many states had constitutional amendments, like
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: my home state of Wisconsin, that banned same-sex marriage and
• 57:21
  Speaker 4: defined marriage only as a union between a man and
• 57:24
  Speaker 4: a woman. If Obergefell were struck, we would have the
• 57:30
  Speaker 4: federal law of the land would be the Defense of
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: Marriage Act. And the state law of the land in
• 57:36
  Speaker 4: my home state of Wisconsin would be a constitutional amendment
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: that excluded same-sex couples. And it would be chaos kind
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: of like it has been with Roe versus Wade being
• 57:50
  Speaker 4: overturned and people needing to leave their states to access
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: fundamental freedoms and control their own bodies, in this case,
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: be able to protect their own families. And we cannot
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: let that happen. And this is, the Respect for Marriage
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: Act is the way we prevent that.
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: So you just described a lot of these progressive fights
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: that you've been a part of for the better part
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: of three decades. You just endorsed Wisconsin's Lieutenant Governor Mandela
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: Barnes in his campaign to be a senator. You're a
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: progressive senator. It is a competitive state. He has a
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: tough race. You're familiar with those. What is your advice
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: for Mandela Barnes heading into the fall?
• 58:28
  Speaker 4: Well, I am so excited that even before the primary
• 58:33
  Speaker 4: has happened, that he's our presumptive nominee and can focus
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: now on defeating Ron Johnson. For those of your podcast
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: enthusiasts who don't know, leading four candidates, three have suspended
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: their campaigns and endorsed Mandela Barnes. And for those who
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: want to know more and want to do more, they
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: can come to Wisconsin and knock doors and sign up
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: at medellabarnes.com or even wisdems.org. Uh, but we have a
• 59:11
  Speaker 4: tough campaign ahead of us, despite the fact that, uh,
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: Senator Ron Johnson is viewed as the most vulnerable incumbent
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: of either party in, uh, the U S Senate. Uh,
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: he's sort of been in that place before six years
• 59:25
  Speaker 4: ago and squeaked through his, uh, squeaked out an election victory.
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: So we need to be ready. We need to respond
• 59:35
  Speaker 4: to all the attacks that will inevitably come towards Democrats
• 59:41
  Speaker 4: and towards our nominee in particular, but strike back because
• 59:47
  Speaker 4: whether it's Ron Johnson asking Mike Pence if he can
• 59:52
  Speaker 4: deliver an envelope full of fake electors from Wisconsin and
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: Pennsylvania or claiming all sorts of snake oil can solve
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: the COVID problem or denying that Russia interfered with our
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 4: 2016 elections or touting the big lie. And I'm just
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: getting started here. We've got to we've got to win.
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 4: And I'm very excited that we get a little head
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 4: start on the general election.
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: Hard to come up with a better upgrade in 2022
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: than Ron Johnson to Mandela Barnes. It is hard to
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: do better in terms of improving the representation that a
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: state would have. So one reason Ron Johnson has been
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: able to hold his Senate seat is in part because
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: Republicans have done a lot to make it harder for
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: people to vote and have done a lot to, you
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: try to hold on to power. And a lot of
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: people see the anti-democratic moves Republicans have used in Wisconsin
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 2: on gerrymandering, other power plays as a harbinger of what
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: we're seeing now nationally. What have you learned in fighting
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: to not just win elections, but defend democracy itself in
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: Wisconsin that we should be thinking about as these fights
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: play out in other states and nationally?
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 4: So first, as we come up to the midterms, it's
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 4: not just an open US Senate seat. But our governor,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 4: our lieutenant governor, our attorney general, our secretary, our state treasurer,
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: all of those statewide races are in play. And we
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 4: need a governor with a veto pen because it's our
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: overwhelmingly Republican legislature that has been trying to pass legislation
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: in order to make it more and more difficult for
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: people to vote. Next year, we'll have a Supreme Court election,
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 4: which will be critical in terms of what sort of
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 4: rulings the state Supreme Court hands down on access to
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: the ballot box and the freedom to vote in our state.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 4: But I also think that one of the best organizing
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: tactics is to tell people the various ways in which people, Republicans,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 4: are trying to make it harder for you to vote
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 4: and make people realize it's them that they want to
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: stay home. And gosh darn it, I'm not gonna do that.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna go to the polls and nothing's gonna keep me.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 4: Not pouring rain, not snow, not COVID, as you've seen
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: Wisconsinites do time and time again. but it's going to
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: be especially essential this time. We also have to sort
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 4: of think about what the alternative could look like, making
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 4: it much easier for people to vote absentee or vote early,
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: to be able to plan their vote and not have
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 4: to worry about childcare and all of these things, plus
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: a host of other campaign finance reforms would really bolster
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 4: our democracy. And it is on the line. It is
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 4: on the line.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: So last question. The Beer Institute named you the 2022
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Beer Champion. Congratulations.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it's some sort of tour you
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 2: go on.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: I have a trophy that's in the shape of a tapper. Unfortunately,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: it's just a trophy. And so when I move the tapper,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: nothing comes out. But I'm very, very proud.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: So I have this feeling, I have this worry that
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: you are one of those people that likes IPAs. Is
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: that right?
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 4: This worry? IPAs are great.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: I knew it. This is a gay lesbian thing. I
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: knew you were going to like IPAs. It's a bitterswill
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: and everybody knows that and more and more people are
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: talking about it and more and more people are saying it.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: And so you're going to come on this show and
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: you're going to say IPAs are drinkable. They're delicious, I'm
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 2: going to say. Delicious.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: Okay. Okay.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: That's just something you're going to put out in the world.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: With everything else that we're dealing with.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: And we don't have to get into the history of
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: IPA and why it tastes like it does.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a person who said, I've been having
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: fun here. I have a different idea. Do you like
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: something that goes down smooth? Or do you want something
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: that tastes like a burnt tire was dropped into a
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: Bud Light? That's how I feel about it.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: Wow, those are fighting words. I can't wait.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 2: Senator Tammy Baldwin, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: And look, everybody has different tastes.
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 4: By the way, you know there's a whole bunch of
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 4: microbreweries in Wisconsin. There's a lot of beers that you
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 4: can't get here. You can only get in Wisconsin. But
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 4: I will be bringing you a Spotted Cow, which is
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 4: not an IPA, but the same brewer– also makes something
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 4: called Moon Man, which is an IPA. And we can
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 4: celebrate microbrews in Wisconsin.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: And we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out. Listen,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: we'll get to the bottom of it. All right. We'll
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: agree to disagree. Thank you so much, Senator.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Tammy Baldwin for joining us today. And
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: we'll talk to you Thursday. Pod Save America is a
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producer is Haley Muse,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer. It's mixed and
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim,
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: slash crookedmedia.