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Passion Drives Corporate Success with Purdeep Sangha · The Heart-Led Business Show

• 0:01
  Speaker: Welcome to the Heart Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love.
• 0:09
  Speaker: Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second.
• 0:20
  Speaker: From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism.
• 0:29
  Speaker: So buckle up and let's go.
• 0:31
  Speaker: Let your heart guide your business journey.
• 0:36
  Tom: Ladies and gents, grab your gears and tune your ears.
• 0:40
  Tom: Because we're about to dive deep with Purdeep Sangha, known as many as the strategist.
• 0:47
  Tom: He's a concoction of charisma and cognition An author, TV show host, and the godfather of mindful alpha male.
• 0:55
  Tom: Set to spice up your life with sizzling success strategies.
• 0:59
  Tom: He's proof you can prosper in your profession and still be a sensation with your wife and kids.
• 1:05
  Tom: So stick around if you're ready for a thrilling ride into the realm of the heart-led hustle here on the heart-led business show.
• 1:13
  Tom: Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a fantastical, fruitful ride.
• 1:16
  Tom: Well, Purdeep, welcome to the show.
• 1:18
  Purdeep Sangha: Tom.
• 1:19
  Purdeep Sangha: Thanks.
• 1:19
  Purdeep Sangha: I appreciate the introduction there.
• 1:22
  Purdeep Sangha: And that was awesome.
• 1:23
  Purdeep Sangha: Thank you.
• 1:23
  Tom: No worries.
• 1:25
  Tom: I always like to spice things up a little bit at the beginning of the show.
• 1:28
  Tom: Set the tone.
• 1:30
  Tom: But tell me what's your definition of a heart-led business?
• 1:33
  Purdeep Sangha: Well, for me, it's simply, do I feel good about the business that I do?
• 1:36
  Purdeep Sangha: And do I feel good about a day in and day out?
• 1:38
  Purdeep Sangha: And if we take a look at the, a little bit of a deeper definition, it's we're doing good stuff for good people.
• 1:43
  Purdeep Sangha: And it's what we consider a win win win.
• 1:46
  Purdeep Sangha: So it's a win for our clients, it's a win for us, and it's a win for a broader community or ecosystem.
• 1:51
  Purdeep Sangha: So that's our definition as a whole.
• 1:53
  Tom: Okay.
• 1:53
  Tom: No, I like that.
• 1:54
  Tom: That's really cool.
• 1:55
  Tom: And especially like that you can feel good about what you're doing as well.
• 1:59
  Purdeep Sangha: Does that correspond with the whole philosophy of do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life?
• 2:05
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah, I think there's a lot to be said about that because we do a lot of studies on performance.
• 2:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Like, that's one of our organizations is all about performance in the workspace.
• 2:13
  Purdeep Sangha: And we have done very heavy studies on that, and work in that area.
• 2:17
  Purdeep Sangha: And yeah, passion is a key element to driving inspiration and keeping people.
• 2:23
  Purdeep Sangha: I like to use the word inspiration, but the typical term out there is motivation, but keeping people inspired.
• 2:29
  Purdeep Sangha: And keeping them inspired at that optimal level.
• 2:32
  Purdeep Sangha: And that's what inspiration leads to performance, like individual performance, which leads to business performance, but it also leads to happier customers and clients.
• 2:40
  Purdeep Sangha: And happier team members.
• 2:42
  Purdeep Sangha: So when team members are passionate and other team members feel that it's just creates a higher level of energy within the organization.
• 2:49
  Purdeep Sangha: I just did a workshop on this yesterday and the day before that, about this whole concept of energy and passion and what that does for business and how that drives results.
• 2:58
  Purdeep Sangha: So there's a lot to be said about being passionate, the energy that it creates, the business results that it creates, and the impact that it creates.
• 3:06
  Tom: That's interesting because if you think about most kind of profit-led businesses, it's kind of the opposite of way around.
• 3:12
  Tom: It's like, let's look at the bottom line.
• 3:13
  Tom: Let's look at the numbers and you know, screw the people if they don't like their job, that we can get somebody else in here.
• 3:19
  Tom: And from your definition, it's kind of flipping that around and saying, we need to develop our people so that they're happy and happy employees lead to happy customers lead to happy shareholders and, you know, happy owners and happy profits.
• 3:33
  Tom: I like that.
• 3:34
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah, it makes sense.
• 3:36
  Purdeep Sangha: I think that old way of doing business has really not fallen apart, but you could see it's changing now.
• 3:43
  Purdeep Sangha: It has significantly changed over the last 10 years in terms of the, I'm going to say value that people put in their people, leaders put in their people, I should say.
• 3:53
  Purdeep Sangha: Especially through COVID, there's been a huge, huge uptake.
• 3:56
  Purdeep Sangha: Like it's incredible.
• 3:57
  Purdeep Sangha: It's shifted significantly where organizations now are paying more attention to the wellbeing of their employees.
• 4:04
  Purdeep Sangha: For example, some of the organizations used to not even have any mental health coverage.
• 4:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Now they do.
• 4:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Some organizations had 2,000 dollars.
• 4:13
  Purdeep Sangha: I'm talking about here in Canada in particular.
• 4:15
  Purdeep Sangha: I had 2,000 dollars a year in mental health coverage and some of them have bumped it up to 10,000 and I'm surprised to see which organizations have and have not.
• 4:24
  Purdeep Sangha: For example, my wife is a nurse practitioner and she works in a cancer ward.
• 4:29
  Purdeep Sangha: She leads a cancer ward at in a Toronto hospital, Sunnybrook hospital, and they haven't bumped up their mental health and I'm like, holy crow, through COVID, they're the ones that took the biggest hits.
• 4:39
  Tom: Yeah.
• 4:40
  Purdeep Sangha: And we're extremely, I still remember my wife, like they were stressed, extremely stressed, the system was stressed, the people were stressed, they didn't choose to bump that up.
• 4:49
  Purdeep Sangha: So it's interesting to see the difference in different organizations and what they've done and what they haven't done.
• 4:54
  Purdeep Sangha: But to bring it back to what you were talking about, yeah, you got to have people that are motivated and inspired and in order for you to do that.
• 5:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Now, from my belief, like we're talking about heart-led businesses, there has to be a balance.
• 5:06
  Purdeep Sangha: And the balance is it's not just on the organization to provide stuff for the employees.
• 5:10
  Purdeep Sangha: Like that's, I think that's a complete misconception here.
• 5:14
  Purdeep Sangha: And I think a lot of people have abused it.
• 5:15
  Purdeep Sangha: And we're heading down that way right now in society where there's a sense of entitlement versus, you know, earning something and being responsible yourself.
• 5:24
  Purdeep Sangha: That's the way society is going.
• 5:25
  Purdeep Sangha: You're my employer.
• 5:26
  Purdeep Sangha: You owe me this versus, Hey, I have a role to play in this too.
• 5:29
  Purdeep Sangha: Maybe I need to invest in this in some way, shape or form.
• 5:32
  Purdeep Sangha: And we know if you take a look at employees who have employee assistance programs, I, you know, I apologize if I'm going down a rabbit hole.
• 5:38
  Tom: That's fine.
• 5:39
  Purdeep Sangha: But employee assistant programs, a lot of them aren't taking advantage of it, or they're not taking advantage of it effectively or following through with the stuff.
• 5:45
  Purdeep Sangha: So there's an onus on both sides when it comes to being heart-led.
• 5:49
  Purdeep Sangha: Yes, employees, employers need to do what they can to help support employees, but employees need to take ownership as well.
• 5:57
  Tom: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Tom: Yeah.
• 5:58
  Tom: It's funny.
• 5:58
  Tom: You bring up EAP, EAPs.
• 6:01
  Tom: So I worked in corporate for a while and we had, you know, the employee assistance program.
• 6:07
  Tom: It was almost frowned upon.
• 6:09
  Tom: Like that was a feeling that I got from when the HR person was like, well, you know, we have this program and you can talk to them if you want.
• 6:15
  Tom: And it's like, Wow, you're really giving a great endorsement for, you know, people to really take advantage of, you know, a program like that.
• 6:24
  Tom: And then on the flip side, I started when I had my fitness business, I started working for a company that was contracted to provide speakers at different, you know, for different topics.
• 6:35
  Tom: And so I would go into different companies and it was paid by their EAP program.
• 6:41
  Tom: And it was, it was always interesting, the different businesses that would go into, you know, sometimes, you know, they'd just be eating lunch, you know, like, okay I get a free lunch and I can talk to, or I can hear somebody talk, but I'm not gonna really pay attention.
• 6:54
  Tom: It was, and that was, you know, 15 years ago, or so.
• 6:57
  Tom: I sure hope things have changed since.
• 6:59
  Purdeep Sangha: I know I was doing a number of sessions for CEOs in particular and senior leaders over the last couple of days, and I know they are paying attention because we have the results.
• 7:10
  Purdeep Sangha: We have some survey results.
• 7:11
  Purdeep Sangha: We do a lot of private studies, and one of the private studies that we did yesterday was on burnout.
• 7:16
  Purdeep Sangha: And it was pretty telling.
• 7:17
  Purdeep Sangha: There are a lot of people, roughly 83 percent of people that we had surveyed.
• 7:22
  Purdeep Sangha: It was a significant size.
• 7:24
  Purdeep Sangha: It was relevant.
• 7:26
  Purdeep Sangha: You can say statistically relevant and 83%.
• 7:30
  Purdeep Sangha: And the question was, do you know someone who has, have you, or do you know someone who has been burnt out over the last two years, within the last two years?
• 7:37
  Purdeep Sangha: And 83 percent said, yes.
• 7:38
  Tom: Wow.
• 7:39
  Purdeep Sangha: And so, yeah.
• 7:40
  Purdeep Sangha: And are you experiencing burnout or any burnout symptoms currently?
• 7:44
  Purdeep Sangha: It was about 78%, I believe.
• 7:46
  Purdeep Sangha: 78, 79%.
• 7:47
  Tom: Wow.
• 7:48
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah, it's high.
• 7:48
  Purdeep Sangha: Mental health has gone up on the rise.
• 7:50
  Purdeep Sangha: I have my theories around that, but, you know, that's a different subject there, it's yeah, that's a whole other show.
• 7:56
  Purdeep Sangha: But yeah, it really comes down and people are more aware of it now that taking care of employees is a good business strategy now because it's a competitive advantage.
• 8:05
  Purdeep Sangha: How do you keep good people?
• 8:06
  Purdeep Sangha: How do you get good people and how do you keep them?
• 8:08
  Tom: Yeah.
• 8:09
  Tom: And I like what you were saying earlier as well, that it's not 100 percent on the employer, but it's a shared responsibility between the employee and the employer as well.
• 8:19
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah, that's important.
• 8:20
  Purdeep Sangha: And the reason why I say this is because we have an entire organization, as I mentioned, it's called the Executive Fab which is all about helping organizations, team members and teams perform at a significantly higher level.
• 8:33
  Purdeep Sangha: It's performance training.
• 8:34
  Purdeep Sangha: It's not specific skill training and we teach people how to perform better.
• 8:39
  Purdeep Sangha: And what we know is that people do not take accountability for their own performance, the vast majority of people.
• 8:44
  Purdeep Sangha: And so even when they have a coach by their side, you know, they need a lot of pushing.
• 8:50
  Purdeep Sangha: Accountability is the number one challenge I would say in the corporate world.
• 8:54
  Tom: Huh.
• 8:55
  Purdeep Sangha: In the business world, because there's a lot of people that are supposed to be responsible for stuff or have a part of the job description or job duties or whatever it is.
• 9:03
  Purdeep Sangha: And we're seeing this climb significantly, Tom, like it's changing now, even in the academic world, because I have a lot of friends who are professors and university professors, and they're saying the same thing.
• 9:13
  Purdeep Sangha: Students are coming in and saying, oh, I need an extension for this without any valid, legitimate reason.
• 9:18
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a whole sense of entitlement, and especially in the business world.
• 9:21
  Purdeep Sangha: Now we're seeing this particularly in Canada.
• 9:23
  Purdeep Sangha: It's a little bit less in the US, but it is happening quite a bit.
• 9:27
  Tom: Oh, that's, that's crazy.
• 9:28
  Tom: So, I kind of skipped over the next question that I usually ask is a little bit about your background, your business and what inspired you to have a heart-led business.
• 9:38
  Purdeep Sangha: Wow.
• 9:38
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah.
• 9:38
  Purdeep Sangha: So I'm going to try to keep it short, but I think I have to give full context to give to explain why.
• 9:44
  Purdeep Sangha: But my parents were immigrants and they immigrated over the early seventies and they had my brother and I, and they just worked hard.
• 9:50
  Purdeep Sangha: They didn't have any formal education.
• 9:52
  Purdeep Sangha: They just worked hard.
• 9:53
  Purdeep Sangha: Eventually they worked on an orchard and they eventually bought their own and built a business and it was successful.
• 9:58
  Purdeep Sangha: And they never worried about money from that perspective.
• 10:00
  Purdeep Sangha: But I was always fascinated about, you know, But what made my parents different than anybody else?
• 10:04
  Purdeep Sangha: So other people are complaining about not making money.
• 10:06
  Purdeep Sangha: My parents were fine and they're doing great.
• 10:09
  Purdeep Sangha: So what are the business principles that they were putting in place?
• 10:12
  Purdeep Sangha: So I started to study that at a very young age.
• 10:15
  Purdeep Sangha: Plus other businesses around us.
• 10:16
  Purdeep Sangha: I would just study and I'd be like, especially the majority were family businesses.
• 10:20
  Purdeep Sangha: So I was like, okay, what makes this family business better?
• 10:22
  Purdeep Sangha: Then I got into studying the brain.
• 10:25
  Purdeep Sangha: It just so happened.
• 10:25
  Purdeep Sangha: I had a substitute teacher in grade, I believe it was a grade six, came up, he was from Europe.
• 10:30
  Purdeep Sangha: And he had moved to Canada and he was substitute teaching and he wrote a bunch of words on the chalkboard at that time, chalkboards, and put circles around them and lines between the words and said, this is a mind map.
• 10:42
  Purdeep Sangha: And that moment on, I was just completely hooked and fascinated because even for the next 20 something years, people were not talking about mind maps.
• 10:51
  Purdeep Sangha: I remember I, I was the first person in pretty much every organization to bring in mind mapping into teams.
• 10:58
  Purdeep Sangha: So I just, I asked him, I said, what is this?
• 11:00
  Purdeep Sangha: What is this mind map?
• 11:01
  Purdeep Sangha: And he said, you know what, if you're interested, go look up.
• 11:04
  Purdeep Sangha: That time it wasn't on the internet.
• 11:05
  Purdeep Sangha: But he, go look up books, right?
• 11:06
  Purdeep Sangha: Go in the library and public library and look up inventors like Einstein and Leonardo da Vinci and so forth.
• 11:13
  Purdeep Sangha: And they all talk about a very similar concept, right?
• 11:17
  Purdeep Sangha: Which is mind mapping, putting your concept down on paper.
• 11:20
  Purdeep Sangha: Whether it's thought bubbles or whatever it is, it's basically concept thinking, right?
• 11:24
  Purdeep Sangha: And I was hooked from then because I started to read that.
• 11:27
  Purdeep Sangha: Then I started to read on brain science at that time, which is now called neuroscience.
• 11:31
  Purdeep Sangha: So I started to study that at a very young age.
• 11:34
  Purdeep Sangha: And then I was 17, I was a personal trainer.
• 11:37
  Purdeep Sangha: So fitness was a big part of my life and I wanted to help other people get fit.
• 11:40
  Purdeep Sangha: I realized that I would put these programs together and 80 percent of the people wouldn't do.
• 11:44
  Tom: Yeah.
• 11:45
  Purdeep Sangha: My background academically is also in science, right?
• 11:47
  Purdeep Sangha: I grew up in science and neuroscience and biochemistry and so forth.
• 11:51
  Purdeep Sangha: And then went into the business world, studied business in multiple different places and, and being in business too.
• 11:57
  Purdeep Sangha: And I was executive for 14 years.
• 11:59
  Purdeep Sangha: My goal is to be a CEO of a major company.
• 12:01
  Purdeep Sangha: That was my goal and predominantly in banking because banking touches every industry.
• 12:04
  Purdeep Sangha: And I had an affinity towards credit unions.
• 12:07
  Purdeep Sangha: I spent more, most of my time in credit unions.
• 12:09
  Purdeep Sangha: My brother grew up in the banking system.
• 12:11
  Purdeep Sangha: And in Canada, the credit union system is very strong.
• 12:13
  Purdeep Sangha: It's not like the American banking system.
• 12:15
  Purdeep Sangha: The American credit unions are smaller.
• 12:17
  Tom: Right.
• 12:18
  Purdeep Sangha: The Canadian ones are a lot larger.
• 12:20
  Purdeep Sangha: And very competitive and I aligned with the values.
• 12:23
  Purdeep Sangha: Talk about heart-led compared to profit.
• 12:26
  Purdeep Sangha: And I saw this almost every single day between my brother and I, right.
• 12:29
  Purdeep Sangha: He'd be coming back and be like, Oh my God, I can't believe they did this.
• 12:32
  Purdeep Sangha: Or, you know, they promised us this bonus and they actually pulled it back.
• 12:35
  Purdeep Sangha: Like that's, that's how the banks work.
• 12:37
  Tom: Wow.
• 12:37
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 12:38
  Purdeep Sangha: If the bank doesn't hit their quarterly profits, but you still hit your targets and your promise, this compensation, you know, they pulled it back.
• 12:45
  Tom: Wow.
• 12:45
  Purdeep Sangha: And so what are you going to do?
• 12:47
  Purdeep Sangha: Are you, you know, are you going to go against the big banks who have endless dollars?
• 12:50
  Purdeep Sangha: So, but the credit unions are not like that.
• 12:52
  Purdeep Sangha: And so, that was my goal.
• 12:54
  Purdeep Sangha: That was my mission.
• 12:55
  Purdeep Sangha: And then a number of years ago, about seven years ago, I decided now I was an entrepreneur.
• 12:59
  Purdeep Sangha: I invested in real estate, did other things.
• 13:01
  Purdeep Sangha: And I said, I'm going to start my own advisory firm.
• 13:05
  Purdeep Sangha: And there, and it actually happened that I started in the U S and grew it from there.
• 13:10
  Purdeep Sangha: And then it kind of expanded into a number of different areas.
• 13:12
  Purdeep Sangha: So fast forward.
• 13:14
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, I'm a husband and I got two kids and I have an umbrella, you can say company that has sub advisory firms where we help business leaders, whether you're a business owner and a CEO or an executive really helped grow and scale their business or their division or department or results, but also help on the personal side, going back to my years as a personal trainer, knowing that a lot of it has to do with the individual.
• 13:37
  Purdeep Sangha: So we've combined the two.
• 13:38
  Purdeep Sangha: And so that's what we do every single day.
• 13:39
  Purdeep Sangha: We help people.
• 13:41
  Purdeep Sangha: It's ultimately this one question people ask, like, what, what's your driving factor?
• 13:44
  Purdeep Sangha: It's to answer this one question, which is how can business leaders or professionals perform at their highest potential and live a high quality of life at the same time?
• 13:53
  Purdeep Sangha: So that's, that's what we do.
• 13:54
  Tom: Yeah.
• 13:55
  Tom: So what does that transformation typically look like for a stressed out CEO that's put on weight and health is bad and second heart attack?
• 14:05
  Tom: You know, what does that transformation look like once you've worked with them?
• 14:08
  That is
• 14:09
  Purdeep Sangha: very much the norm.
• 14:09
  Purdeep Sangha: You know that, right?
• 14:10
  Purdeep Sangha: You, cause being in that, in the industry.
• 14:13
  Purdeep Sangha: So what it looks like is first of all, for the vast majority of people, depending on also their gender, Men will hold off to the very end.
• 14:21
  Purdeep Sangha: Women are more open to it.
• 14:23
  Purdeep Sangha: They will come forward depending on the challenges that they're having in their life.
• 14:26
  Purdeep Sangha: And then first step is really awareness.
• 14:28
  Purdeep Sangha: Right?
• 14:28
  Purdeep Sangha: And openness.
• 14:29
  Purdeep Sangha: They need to be open.
• 14:30
  Purdeep Sangha: And then what happens is they need to be aware that they need to do something different.
• 14:34
  Purdeep Sangha: And then what it comes down to, depending on their challenge, right?
• 14:37
  Purdeep Sangha: Some of them might have, like you said, the health challenge.
• 14:41
  Purdeep Sangha: So the health challenge for us, we take a look.
• 14:42
  Purdeep Sangha: If someone that has a serious condition like that, right?
• 14:45
  Purdeep Sangha: We make sure that, okay, are they actually staying in touch.
• 14:48
  Purdeep Sangha: Because we're not medical doctors from the perspective, we're going to take care of your heart disease.
• 14:52
  Purdeep Sangha: We just want to make sure you have someone that's taking care of that.
• 14:55
  Purdeep Sangha: But we have functional medicine expert on our team, who then takes a look at and says, because the traditional medical system is not going to take a look at that.
• 15:02
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, where are the root causes?
• 15:03
  Purdeep Sangha: What's the lifestyle like?
• 15:05
  Purdeep Sangha: What's your gut health like?
• 15:06
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, your blood markers that doctors don't typically look at, look at different things.
• 15:10
  Purdeep Sangha: And then we will also connect them.
• 15:12
  Purdeep Sangha: We have an extended team.
• 15:12
  Purdeep Sangha: We will connect them with the right professionals.
• 15:15
  Purdeep Sangha: From a fitness perspective, because we don't do fitness.
• 15:17
  Purdeep Sangha: We do health and nutrition.
• 15:18
  Purdeep Sangha: Fitness is a different category that we don't focus on.
• 15:21
  Purdeep Sangha: We focus a lot on the cognitive, emotional and physical health from an integrated medicine perspective, but not from a, not necessarily fitness.
• 15:32
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 15:32
  Purdeep Sangha: So we will connect them with the right professional if they want to work out, have a workout plan and regimen and that kind of stuff.
• 15:38
  Purdeep Sangha: So that's what it kind of looks like.
• 15:39
  Purdeep Sangha: And then we work with them and we touch base with them.
• 15:42
  Purdeep Sangha: When I say touch base, it's more like an advisory slash coaching at least once a month, if not twice a month, some of our programs are group, right?
• 15:51
  Purdeep Sangha: Some of our programs are, there's a group of executives.
• 15:54
  Purdeep Sangha: So everybody's speaking the same language.
• 15:56
  Purdeep Sangha: And I think Tom, this is the most important thing is if you take people through as a group.
• 16:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Then no one feels isolated because we worked with individuals like a CEO that had, we do a lot of private confidential work, right?
• 16:07
  Purdeep Sangha: No one on our team, like some of the work that I do, no one on my team even knows that we have this client.
• 16:12
  Purdeep Sangha: So, some of that, because they're going through some private challenges, like, okay, so they've had a heart attack, but they don't want anybody to know, like, they don't want anybody to know, because you can't be a CEO of a major corporation and it publicly be out there that they've suffered two heart attacks.
• 16:27
  Purdeep Sangha: The stock prices drops.
• 16:28
  Purdeep Sangha: So the sensitivity and confidentiality is very, very important.
• 16:31
  Purdeep Sangha: So add on that, right, that pressure to these CEOs, because now they're, they can't tell anybody.
• 16:37
  Purdeep Sangha: It's not like they can be public about it to a lot of people because it's a sign of weakness for them and the organization.
• 16:43
  Purdeep Sangha: So it's kind of a, it's a, how do I say it?
• 16:45
  Purdeep Sangha: Sometimes it's like a dance.
• 16:47
  Purdeep Sangha: You got to be really, really careful in terms of that approach and how you go through it.
• 16:50
  Purdeep Sangha: We had a CEO last year who went into the hospital.
• 16:53
  Purdeep Sangha: And I couldn't get a hold of him.
• 16:54
  Purdeep Sangha: I'm like, what happened?
• 16:55
  Purdeep Sangha: I just had no clues in the hospital.
• 16:57
  Purdeep Sangha: But he literally came out a week and a half later and said, hey, Purdeep I'm sorry I didn't get back to you, but I was in the hospital and the doctor said I might not make it.
• 17:03
  Purdeep Sangha: They told my wife, he's got 48 hours.
• 17:05
  Purdeep Sangha: If he makes it, he makes it.
• 17:06
  Purdeep Sangha: If he doesn't, he doesn't.
• 17:07
  Tom: Oh, wow.
• 17:08
  Purdeep Sangha: Because his organs were shutting down.
• 17:10
  Purdeep Sangha: He just did not take care of his health.
• 17:11
  Purdeep Sangha: He thought he came down with COVID and just tried to go, it wasn't COVID.
• 17:14
  Purdeep Sangha: It was, it was another, you can say, challenge, a health challenge that he had developed over a period of time, which he completely ignored.
• 17:21
  Purdeep Sangha: And so what does that look like?
• 17:23
  Purdeep Sangha: In this extreme case, he left the organization because it was too high stress, too high pressure.
• 17:27
  Purdeep Sangha: They just, they, as a board of directors, they weren't managing the organization effectively, and he just couldn't deal with it anymore.
• 17:35
  Purdeep Sangha: So it really depends on the person.
• 17:37
  Purdeep Sangha: For some people, they have to make a significant lifestyle change like that.
• 17:40
  Purdeep Sangha: Other people, if you catch it fast enough, then you can, you know, you can transition and make certain lifestyle changes and work changes.
• 17:46
  Tom: Wow.
• 17:47
  Tom: Yeah.
• 17:47
  Tom: That's crazy.
• 17:48
  Tom: Thinking about bringing in that, that people aspect to the organization.
• 17:53
  Tom: So you have this high driving executive that is profit driven, got to get the quarterly results every, you know, every quarter.
• 18:02
  Tom: How are they bringing in the people aspect when that's not part of the DNA that they grew up with.
• 18:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Well, I think I, you know, again, as I think leadership has changed and I think people, leaders now realize they need good people and in order to do that, they got to train them, they got to take care of them.
• 18:19
  Purdeep Sangha: So they, I think a lot of people are aware of that.
• 18:22
  Purdeep Sangha: Now, the challenge though, is they have, just like anybody else, they have dilemmas.
• 18:26
  Purdeep Sangha: And the dilemma could be, Hey, look, I have this person on my team who I know maybe should be paid more, but we don't have the budget for, right?
• 18:35
  Purdeep Sangha: So maybe there's something else that I can do.
• 18:38
  Purdeep Sangha: To help this person, right?
• 18:39
  Purdeep Sangha: Maybe something else.
• 18:40
  Purdeep Sangha: Maybe I can give them more vacations.
• 18:41
  Purdeep Sangha: Maybe I can you know, do something in some other way.
• 18:44
  Purdeep Sangha: Maybe I can acknowledge them more.
• 18:46
  Purdeep Sangha: Maybe I can give them some kind of a task that they love or a project that they love, right?
• 18:52
  Purdeep Sangha: So there's different ways of doing that, but it really comes down to, you know, some, there's some basic stuff, any, every organization should have a career development plan for every single individual, right?
• 19:01
  Purdeep Sangha: And that is what sets the stage, because if you take a look at the career development plan, and you keep it updated, and the people are working towards it.
• 19:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Your results will get better too and you'll have the budget to be able to help out.
• 19:13
  Purdeep Sangha: But again, it's a tricky one because I'm in business too.
• 19:15
  Purdeep Sangha: I run businesses and sometimes I'd like to pay people more, but then I'm like, I just need to see more results in that particular area.
• 19:22
  Purdeep Sangha: And I'm a firm believer of performance compensation.
• 19:26
  Purdeep Sangha: Like there,
• 19:26
  Tom: Yeah, me too.
• 19:27
  Purdeep Sangha: You perform and I'm going to pay you the best of the best.
• 19:29
  Purdeep Sangha: And that is you know, I think as organization, you know, going into this side, I think we need to do more of that because if people take accountability for their performance and they perform at their top potential and they get paid for it.
• 19:41
  Purdeep Sangha: That's a win win for everybody.
• 19:43
  Tom: Yeah.
• 19:43
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 19:43
  Purdeep Sangha: But here's Tom, what we also know, here's what stats show and our research shows too.
• 19:47
  Purdeep Sangha: The average person, their performance fluctuates by up to 65 percent any time of the day or any given day of the week.
• 19:54
  Purdeep Sangha: So someone can show up performing at a 9 out of 10 this morning and be performing at a 3 out of 10 this afternoon.
• 19:58
  Tom: Wow.
• 19:59
  Purdeep Sangha: And this is the interesting part.
• 20:01
  Purdeep Sangha: They'll give us a technical skill, but it's what we call the performance quotient, which technical skills can help you improve that.
• 20:07
  Purdeep Sangha: But it doesn't necessarily do that.
• 20:08
  Purdeep Sangha: That's why I've spent the last, literally 25 years trying to figure out what performance really is.
• 20:13
  Purdeep Sangha: And we finally came up with these elements of performance.
• 20:16
  Purdeep Sangha: Now we go into, when we work with organizations, now we can pinpoint and say, this is what performance is.
• 20:22
  Purdeep Sangha: This is how you measure it.
• 20:23
  Purdeep Sangha: This is how you change it.
• 20:24
  Purdeep Sangha: And we teach people and individuals how to change their own performance because here's the, here, I think we're going to have a massive shift in the next 10 years, is we've always put it on leaders to drive performance.
• 20:35
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 20:35
  Purdeep Sangha: If you're a better leader, you know how to communicate more, you know how to inspire people, it's going to improve performance, but only to a certain degree, because guess what, you can't, you can only inspire them so much or watch them 24/7, right?
• 20:46
  Purdeep Sangha: You're not a babysitter, but if you teach people how to perform better themselves, and keep themselves inspired and understand themselves in terms of how performance works.
• 20:55
  Purdeep Sangha: You're going to be far more effective as a team, as an organization.
• 20:58
  Purdeep Sangha: So that is the difference and that's what we do.
• 21:01
  Purdeep Sangha: And it's just like anything else.
• 21:03
  Purdeep Sangha: They don't teach us a few core skills in school or even in the workplace.
• 21:07
  Purdeep Sangha: Like in school, they don't teach you about relationships.
• 21:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 21:09
  Purdeep Sangha: They don't teach you how to have an effective marriage or relationship.
• 21:11
  Purdeep Sangha: Oh, that'd be nice, right?
• 21:13
  Tom: That'd be great.
• 21:13
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Purdeep Sangha: Financial management is there.
• 21:15
  Purdeep Sangha: It's starting to come in school and they're starting to put it in a little bit, but it's still not as effective, right?
• 21:20
  Purdeep Sangha: Relationships that, and they don't teach you how to learn.
• 21:24
  Purdeep Sangha: This is the biggest, I'm going to say, excuse my language, screw up of the academic system is they don't teach you how to learn.
• 21:30
  Purdeep Sangha: There's actually a science behind it.
• 21:31
  Purdeep Sangha: I actually learned this when I was starting the brain science part.
• 21:35
  Purdeep Sangha: Where Tom, I had learned how to have photographic memory, study properly.
• 21:38
  Purdeep Sangha: I could go into a test and score a hundred percent without even fully having to study because there's a science.
• 21:44
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a methodology behind it that you can use and your brain works a certain way, but we don't teach that in school for kids.
• 21:50
  Purdeep Sangha: But imagine what could happen if we actually taught them how to learn effectively.
• 21:53
  Tom: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Purdeep Sangha: So they can actually absorb that material and then they don't, no one teaches us how to perform and performance is important, unless you're on a sports team, but even on a sports team, it's technical the performance element, like they're starting to bring more into it.
• 22:06
  Purdeep Sangha: I love, you know, the Ted Lasso is a great show.
• 22:09
  Purdeep Sangha: If anybody hasn't seen it, it's a great show because, you know, they talk about performance psychology in there the impact of that.
• 22:16
  Purdeep Sangha: And so these different elements now, but coming back to this I got a little bit off track, but if we paid people based on performance and people knew what performance was, then I believe organizations, it'd be a win, win, win.
• 22:29
  Tom: So what's the difference between kind of technically doing your job correctly?
• 22:33
  Tom: So let's say, you know, a salesperson, they make all the sales calls, they do all the right things and they're getting, you know, a 85 percent close rate on their, is that performance or is that just doing the tactics to get to an end result?
• 22:48
  Purdeep Sangha: Now that is performance, but it's now it's like, what are the elements within that?
• 22:52
  Purdeep Sangha: And I'll just give you a few examples because there's particular elements within that.
• 22:56
  Purdeep Sangha: One is accuracy, right?
• 22:58
  Purdeep Sangha: So how accurate, so whether they're phone calls or the sales proposal, whatever that looks like.
• 23:04
  Purdeep Sangha: The other one is quantity, right?
• 23:05
  Purdeep Sangha: Quantity is another one.
• 23:06
  Purdeep Sangha: Consistency is another factor of performance.
• 23:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Speed is another factor of performance, but here's something what people don't pay attention to.
• 23:14
  Purdeep Sangha: What about feelings?
• 23:15
  Purdeep Sangha: Because feelings have an element of performance.
• 23:17
  Purdeep Sangha: The better you feel, the higher your performance.
• 23:20
  Purdeep Sangha: Okay, this is, this is, this is scientific.
• 23:22
  Purdeep Sangha: This isn't, yes, right.
• 23:23
  Purdeep Sangha: We know that.
• 23:24
  Purdeep Sangha: If you have a stomach ache, you're not going to feel as well.
• 23:26
  Purdeep Sangha: You don't eat effectively, you're not going to perform as well.
• 23:29
  Purdeep Sangha: If you're from an emotional level, because there's five different levels of feelings, right?
• 23:33
  Purdeep Sangha: So there's different levels.
• 23:35
  Purdeep Sangha: And if you understand that and you can tackle that and you feel better, you can actually perform better.
• 23:38
  Purdeep Sangha: So there's different elements within you can say this framework that you can break down.
• 23:44
  Purdeep Sangha: So now you're, you're taking a look at a salesperson's calls and now you can say, out of these elements, how effective was it?
• 23:51
  Tom: Okay.
• 23:52
  Purdeep Sangha: So you're breaking down the duties or the activities and now breaking it down to the core elements.
• 23:59
  Purdeep Sangha: Cause now you can replicate it.
• 24:00
  Purdeep Sangha: You can fine tune it.
• 24:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Right?
• 24:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Just like in sports, they fine tune things.
• 24:04
  Tom: Yup.
• 24:04
  Purdeep Sangha: If you're throwing a basketball, they're going to fine tune, you know, your arm swing, for example, your wrist.
• 24:09
  Purdeep Sangha: So it's, it's just like that.
• 24:11
  Purdeep Sangha: And one thing, for example, that most people don't pay attention to when it comes to performance is unintended consequences.
• 24:18
  Purdeep Sangha: And the example that you just used is a prime one because we get this a lot.
• 24:22
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a sales one, two, maybe even a few great salespeople, but they're not following the process.
• 24:28
  Purdeep Sangha: They're not part of the team culture.
• 24:29
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, they're doing things out of the norm and everybody else is like, why do they get to do that?
• 24:33
  Purdeep Sangha: And we, you know, like that makes no sense.
• 24:35
  Purdeep Sangha: And they're not so great for the culture.
• 24:37
  Purdeep Sangha: So those unintended consequences are now hurting the performance of other people or hindering the performance of other people.
• 24:44
  Purdeep Sangha: So that's a performance element.
• 24:45
  Purdeep Sangha: So these, these are the things that people, our organizations need to take a look at.
• 24:49
  Purdeep Sangha: So we've broken it down.
• 24:50
  Purdeep Sangha: Now, when we work with people and leaders, they're like, okay, now we get it.
• 24:54
  Purdeep Sangha: Now we can have a very pinpointed conversation and it's not anything to do with, Hey, you're a bad person.
• 25:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Or, you know, you generalize your performance.
• 25:03
  Purdeep Sangha: Now it's like, here are the 10 elements,
• 25:05
  Tom: Yeah.
• 25:05
  Purdeep Sangha: Right?
• 25:06
  Purdeep Sangha: And now we can break it down.
• 25:07
  Purdeep Sangha: And so that person can't take it offensively because it's just on a piece of paper, right?
• 25:11
  Purdeep Sangha: It's like saying your handwriting is not within the lines.
• 25:15
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, it's not that you have bad handwriting.
• 25:16
  Purdeep Sangha: You just got to put it in between the lines, right?
• 25:19
  Purdeep Sangha: So if a person takes that offensively, that's their own problem, but they should understand that's part of the requirement.
• 25:24
  Tom: Yeah.
• 25:25
  Tom: I like that.
• 25:26
  Tom: That's a really great, great analogy.
• 25:28
  Tom: And then what you said about the feelings as part of performance you know, that definitely is not something that is looked at at a regular basis.
• 25:36
  Tom: And, you know, it could be that boss that yells all the time that creates that toxic work environment that brings everybody's feelings down.
• 25:43
  Tom: The productivity goes down, but it also could be they had a fight with their spouse in the morning and that productivity is going to be down for that day as well.
• 25:53
  Tom: And I think that's the element that a lot of people miss when looking at kind of overall performance of an employee.
• 26:00
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Feelings.
• 26:02
  Purdeep Sangha: And like I said, there's five different levels and one of them is also personality.
• 26:05
  Purdeep Sangha: Because some people just have a personality of bringing, have a baseline feelings, level feelings with their personality.
• 26:12
  Purdeep Sangha: And when they realize the impact that it has on the performance, then we can help them shift it.
• 26:15
  Purdeep Sangha: Or the impact that it has on other people's performance.
• 26:17
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 26:17
  Purdeep Sangha: And so we, I had this question yesterday from a CEO.
• 26:20
  Purdeep Sangha: Well, what if it's just a person's personality?
• 26:23
  Purdeep Sangha: And, you know, my response is this.
• 26:25
  Purdeep Sangha: I'm a, like, if you take a look at a lot of people in psychology, there's two kind of mindsets, right?
• 26:29
  Purdeep Sangha: One is personality is fixed.
• 26:31
  Purdeep Sangha: Personality is fixed and you can't change your personality because there's five main personality traits and other people are like, no, you can shift it if you can change your, if you can flip genes on and off epigenetics and you should be able to change your personality to a certain degree.
• 26:43
  Purdeep Sangha: And my belief is that you can change your personality to a certain degree if it's intentional.
• 26:48
  Purdeep Sangha: And you're focused on it.
• 26:50
  Purdeep Sangha: Like if you put the work behind it, I do believe you can change your personality over time, but I don't think your personality dictates the feelings that you have as a baseline as a person.
• 26:57
  Purdeep Sangha: That's your mindset.
• 26:58
  Purdeep Sangha: That's how you've grown up.
• 26:59
  Purdeep Sangha: That's basically who the people that you've been around, but once you identify what that looks like, then it's easy that not easy, I should say, because it's not easy to change your baseline from a feelings perspective as a person.
• 27:09
  Purdeep Sangha: But you're, when you're more aware, consciously over time, you can do it.
• 27:13
  Purdeep Sangha: Like I've seen people change over the period of a year where they've, and not so great in terms of, you know, the, the feelings that they brought to the table to a lot better and awareness can be a huge one.
• 27:23
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a CEO that was in the room again yesterday that said, you know, my family, he's like a few months ago, my family said, you know, you're, you're a suck, you're drained when it comes to the energy in this house, like you bring bad mood with you.
• 27:36
  Purdeep Sangha: And that was a huge awakening for him.
• 27:39
  Purdeep Sangha: And I give him a lot of credit to be able to share that with a group of other CEOs and be vulnerable.
• 27:44
  Purdeep Sangha: He realized that and he had to change his ways.
• 27:46
  Purdeep Sangha: Now he's not a hundred percent there, but at least he's, it's acknowledged and he's aware of it.
• 27:50
  Tom: Yeah.
• 27:51
  Tom: I mean, awareness is like the number one thing, right?
• 27:53
  Tom: When there's a problem, you have to be aware that it is a problem before you can address it and fix it.
• 27:58
  Tom: So, yeah, that's, that's interesting.
• 28:00
  Tom: And, you know, getting back to kind of the profit and kind of wrap up, I want to be cognizant of your time here as well.
• 28:07
  Tom: How does that shift the profit side of it then in terms of balancing the people, the performance, and then making sure that the business is creating a profit at the end of the day?
• 28:17
  Purdeep Sangha: Well, I, you know, if I think maybe I'm oversimplifying it for people, but I think it makes sense when people understand this, when people are happier and they perform better, then the results will be improved.
• 28:27
  Purdeep Sangha: And then the productivity and the product and the clients, better client experience too.
• 28:33
  Purdeep Sangha: We do a lot of work on client experience.
• 28:34
  Purdeep Sangha: You're going to have a way higher client experience when people are happier and performing better.
• 28:39
  Purdeep Sangha: And guess what?
• 28:39
  Purdeep Sangha: That's going to lead to higher revenues.
• 28:41
  Purdeep Sangha: And bottom line, that's going to lead to higher revenues.
• 28:43
  Purdeep Sangha: And it's also going to be people leading to, there might be a small cost to it, like an investment that you make in training people or programs that you put in or whatever that looks like, but that cost is going to be.
• 28:54
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, it's going to be minimal compared to the profit that a person or an organization is making compared to the results.
• 29:00
  Purdeep Sangha: Take a look at this.
• 29:01
  Purdeep Sangha: Here's an analogy because a lot of the work that we did they've done research billions and billions and billions of dollars of research in the sports industry, right?
• 29:08
  Purdeep Sangha: And that's the kind of analogy we brought in the business world.
• 29:11
  Purdeep Sangha: But take a look at the best sports teams, for example, breaking the crash like cash because people are excited about it.
• 29:17
  Purdeep Sangha: There's an energy level, they get to the championship, they win the championship, and then, you know, it creates this momentum.
• 29:22
  Purdeep Sangha: So when people perform in an organization, it's a very similar thing is you just get better results and you make more money.
• 29:30
  Purdeep Sangha: Bottom line.
• 29:30
  Tom: Yeah.
• 29:30
  Tom: And you're winning and everybody loves to win.
• 29:33
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah.
• 29:34
  Purdeep Sangha: And so if people are happier, they're coming to work happier.
• 29:37
  Purdeep Sangha: Clients are happier.
• 29:38
  Purdeep Sangha: You're making more money like that.
• 29:40
  Purdeep Sangha: What else would drive your heart?
• 29:42
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, when we're talking about heart-led business than that, because it's, we have a saying, feel your best, perform your best, achieve your best.
• 29:47
  Purdeep Sangha: You know, that's, it's simply that.
• 29:48
  Tom: Yeah, love that.
• 29:49
  Tom: But it can be a problem when cash is tight and you know, you need to install these programs to get everybody happier.
• 29:57
  Tom: And but it's like, how do I, I think you said this a few minutes ago too, is like, we want to invest in our people and all this, but you know, I got bills to pay and the suppliers and all that.
• 30:08
  Tom: And it's, it's at wrench time.
• 30:10
  Tom: How do you coach a CEO to, you know, find that balance and invest in the people for the long term.
• 30:19
  Purdeep Sangha: If you don't make enough revenue, you're not going to be able to keep the business because you're not going to be able to grow, expand, innovate, right?
• 30:25
  Purdeep Sangha: And keep up with your competition.
• 30:26
  Purdeep Sangha: So I think people need to understand this, right?
• 30:28
  Purdeep Sangha: I think employees need to understand this.
• 30:31
  Purdeep Sangha: You have to make a significant amount of money within your industry and comparably, compared to your competition, to be able to be relevant.
• 30:38
  Purdeep Sangha: That is the most important thing.
• 30:39
  Purdeep Sangha: And sometimes that does require letting people go because the industry has shifted, whatever that looks like, and you have to remain competitive.
• 30:47
  Purdeep Sangha: If you take a look at what Steve Jobs did, for example, when he came back to Apple, when he left the first time, he basically pared it down and this is just a basic strategy for many organizations that are going under is when they bring a new CEO down, you have to pare it down to the basics now, right?
• 31:02
  Purdeep Sangha: Rip a lot of the XX fat off, whether that's people or divisions or departments or products and figure out what's working and what's not working.
• 31:09
  Purdeep Sangha: It's part of the system.
• 31:11
  Purdeep Sangha: Now, if the economy drops, right, you have to save the business.
• 31:15
  Purdeep Sangha: And I think there's a difference though, Tom.
• 31:17
  Purdeep Sangha: And the difference is this.
• 31:18
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a difference between greed and understanding sustainability.
• 31:22
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a difference there.
• 31:24
  Tom: Yeah, that's true.
• 31:24
  Purdeep Sangha: And that is a core.
• 31:26
  Purdeep Sangha: There's a core element.
• 31:27
  Purdeep Sangha: Not that I'm against publicly traded companies because we need them.
• 31:30
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 31:31
  Purdeep Sangha: It's a way of investors making money and they're the largest companies around the world, typically.
• 31:35
  Purdeep Sangha: But I have a thing for privately owned companies because they're privately owned and they have one, two, maybe a number of different shareholders that are more intimately involved in the business and understand the people where as publicly traded companies are owned by people around the world, you don't even know.
• 31:49
  Purdeep Sangha: And their number one goal and gain or reason to be part of that company is to make money.
• 31:54
  Purdeep Sangha: Right.
• 31:54
  Purdeep Sangha: And that's why I have, I prefer credit unions over banks because credit unions, the people that bank there are the owners.
• 31:59
  Purdeep Sangha: They're the sure shareholders.
• 32:01
  Purdeep Sangha: They're the members.
• 32:02
  Purdeep Sangha: Whereas banks you're owned by whoever owns the stock and you don't know.
• 32:05
  Purdeep Sangha: So there's a different motivation, a publicly traded company.
• 32:09
  Purdeep Sangha: Their motivation is bottom line profit growth.
• 32:11
  Purdeep Sangha: That's it.
• 32:12
  Purdeep Sangha: However you have to get to it, it's bottom line profit growth.
• 32:15
  Purdeep Sangha: Whereas a privately, a private company could be growth, but still, yes, we need to take care of our people.
• 32:20
  Purdeep Sangha: So that, that is something that we have to take into consideration is again, I'm not again, knocking publicly traded companies, but I think there's a different perspective.
• 32:28
  Purdeep Sangha: And if a privately owned business is getting rid of people to maximize and optimize profit without taking care of the people, then it becomes greed.
• 32:36
  Tom: I like that.
• 32:37
  Tom: The greed and sustainability.
• 32:38
  Tom: That's a really key differentiator.
• 32:41
  Tom: I like that.
• 32:42
  Tom: That's a good nugget.
• 32:42
  Tom: Cool.
• 32:43
  Tom: Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your wisdom with the audience.
• 32:47
  Tom: I think this is a great conversation around the heart-led business.
• 32:52
  Tom: How can people get ahold of you and if they would like to learn more about what you're doing and the work that you've done?
• 32:57
  Purdeep Sangha: You can find me at purdeepsangha.com, that's our main website and I'm most active on LinkedIn, not super active, but out of all the social media profiles and platforms, that's where I actually will respond.
• 33:09
  Purdeep Sangha: No snapshot, no TikTok, Instagram, even minimal.
• 33:12
  Purdeep Sangha: But LinkedIn is a place, feel free to reach out and connect.
• 33:15
  Tom: Awesome.
• 33:16
  Tom: Well, great.
• 33:17
  Tom: Well, thank you again for coming on the show.
• 33:18
  Tom: I certainly appreciate your time today and I wish you all the best in the future.
• 33:23
  Purdeep Sangha: Yeah.
• 33:23
  Purdeep Sangha: Thanks Tom.
• 33:24
  Purdeep Sangha: I appreciate being you being an awesome host.
• 33:25
  Purdeep Sangha: So thank you.
• 33:26
  Tom: No worries.
• 33:27
  Tom: And thank you listeners for watching the show today.
• 33:30
  Tom: I really appreciated it.
• 33:31
  Tom: Make sure you're checking out what Purdeep is doing and all that information is going to be down in the show notes and we'll be linking all of those social media profiles as well so that you can get a hold of them if you'd like to.
• 33:44
  Tom: And also if you could do us a favor and give the show a rating and review that does help spread the word and I certainly appreciate that as well.
• 33:53
  Tom: So until next time, lead with your heart.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.