Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Taylor Swift testifies & Cops catch Chase Massner suspect

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Taylor Swift testifies & Cops catch Chase Massner suspect · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Climb Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius x M Triumph
0:08
Speaker 1: Channel one thirty two. Taylor Swift is getting ready for
0:13
Speaker 1: a performance not on stage, but in a federal courtroom.
0:16
Speaker 1: Swift is being sued by former k y g O
0:19
Speaker 1: d J David Mueller. Swift claimed Mueller's hand grabbed her
0:22
Speaker 1: backside inappropriately and his radio station fired him. This TMZ
0:26
Speaker 1: picture showing the two together will be at the center
0:29
Speaker 1: of the trial. Look at where his hands. It's an
0:32
Speaker 1: odd spot. My hand was never under her skirts. I
0:35
Speaker 1: never grabbed her. Taylor Swift on the stand and emotional
0:44
Speaker 1: and raw testimony. It seems to be getting worse as
0:49
Speaker 1: people in the courthouse are asking why did this guy
0:53
Speaker 1: bring a lawsuit against Taylor Swift? And when you take
0:56
Speaker 1: a look at that photo, you can see her just
0:59
Speaker 1: crip enging away from his hand on her bare backside.
1:05
Speaker 1: I mean, see Grace. This is Crime Stories. But first,
1:08
Speaker 1: a major development in the search for Chase Masner, the
1:14
Speaker 1: Golden boy who goes missing, seemingly leaving his wife, his
1:18
Speaker 1: two little girls, and his mom behind in a cloud
1:21
Speaker 1: of dust. While authorities insisted he just was living off
1:25
Speaker 1: the grid, the family never believed that, along with their
1:29
Speaker 1: friends dubbed Team Chase, they were right and police were wrong.
1:36
Speaker 1: We now know Chase Masner's body has been found buried
1:40
Speaker 1: in the backyard of a so called best friend, Brad Clement.
1:44
Speaker 1: Clement goes on the run, but in the last hours
1:47
Speaker 1: Brad Clement apprehended. Joining me from Channel forty six, Daniel Wilkerson,
1:53
Speaker 1: Daniel quickly. How was he arrested? He was found Nancy
1:57
Speaker 1: in a public parking lot. He had in a U
2:00
Speaker 1: haul I'm told in a fictitious name. When he didn't
2:04
Speaker 1: return at you haul in time. Uh, somehow cops were
2:08
Speaker 1: onto him. They traced at you caul, and the cops
2:12
Speaker 1: showed up there in the public's parking lot and took
2:15
Speaker 1: him down. WHOA. The photo of him faced down in
2:17
Speaker 1: the rain made me feel a tiny bit better. Not
2:20
Speaker 1: so for the family of Chase Master and his two
2:23
Speaker 1: daughters who will grow up without a dad. Joining me
2:26
Speaker 1: from Crime Online is Lee Egan. Lee. This was not
2:30
Speaker 1: a fly by the City of your pants operation here.
2:32
Speaker 1: I mean, wasn't his car found at his mother's home
2:36
Speaker 1: with the tag change? It was when Detective Twigs went
2:41
Speaker 1: out there. Initially he did see read leaving in that car,
2:44
Speaker 1: so we thought maybe he would be in that car
2:47
Speaker 1: driving away, but obviously he wasn't. They traced him too
2:51
Speaker 1: a U haul van in the public's parking lot and
2:54
Speaker 1: when he was walking out, I'm hearing he was barefoot
2:57
Speaker 1: walking in the rain. They grabbed him, arrested him and
3:00
Speaker 1: it came from tracing the U haul and possibly from
3:03
Speaker 1: tips that came in from other people. I want to
3:06
Speaker 1: think right now everyone sending in tips from Sirius Sex
3:11
Speaker 1: and crime Online, your tips have been vital to this investigation.
3:16
Speaker 1: Authorities have arrested Brad Clement barefoot in the pouring rain.
3:21
Speaker 1: Still unclear whether he new cops were coming, whether he
3:26
Speaker 1: was tipped off, but he was leaving the grocery store
3:29
Speaker 1: parking lot when authorities spotted him, having been living in
3:33
Speaker 1: a U Haul on the run, attempting to leave the jurisdiction.
3:37
Speaker 1: And now will we get answers regarding the death of
3:41
Speaker 1: Iraqi war Vett Chase Masner. We are taking your calls
3:46
Speaker 1: and I want to go first out to Sherry Dunne,
3:48
Speaker 1: who has been involved in the search for Chase Masner.
3:52
Speaker 1: Sherry weigh in, I'm of course over the moon that
3:54
Speaker 1: they have called him. It should have been done a
3:56
Speaker 1: long time ago. UM, I'm just more than thankful for
3:59
Speaker 1: you guys for not stopping and helping the family getting
4:03
Speaker 1: it first. You know what, I'm with you on that.
4:06
Speaker 1: I'm just really relieved we've at least gotten to this milestone.
4:10
Speaker 1: Kim Harris from Team Chase. Kim, when you learned that
4:14
Speaker 1: Brad Clement had just been apprehended, what was your first reaction? Relief?
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Speaker 1: I was absolutely relieved, and I won't lie. I I
4:22
Speaker 1: loved seeing that picture. But the last six days have
4:25
Speaker 1: been gut wrenching. In the last three and a half
4:27
Speaker 1: years have been but this last six days Stephanie needed
4:33
Speaker 1: relief and and she admitted to getting a sense of
4:36
Speaker 1: relief last night. Stephanie, of course, is Chase Masnar's mom,
4:39
Speaker 1: very quickly to Brian Hopkins from Team Chase joining us
4:42
Speaker 1: all Team Chase calling in right now in response to
4:46
Speaker 1: finally and arrest in this case. Brian Hopkins, what was
4:50
Speaker 1: your first thought when you saw that photo of Brad
4:52
Speaker 1: Clement faced down in the parking lot? Just glad that
4:55
Speaker 1: it finally happened. Um, this could have all been done
4:58
Speaker 1: a long time ago, and everybody could have been, you know,
5:01
Speaker 1: way past it. You know what, Brian Hopkins, that's a
5:04
Speaker 1: really good point. From the very beginning, he Brad Clemett
5:09
Speaker 1: was asked over and over by Team Chase to let
5:13
Speaker 1: them bring dogs in the backyard. He always had an
5:16
Speaker 1: excuse why they couldn't come in the backyard. Police did
5:20
Speaker 1: not follow up with me. Also is Mike Swigger from
5:24
Speaker 1: Team Chase. Mike, thanks for being with us. When you
5:27
Speaker 1: look back and see all the signs that were handed
5:30
Speaker 1: to police on a silver platter, it's distressing, it's upsetting,
5:34
Speaker 1: that's true. But in the end, they got the guy.
5:39
Speaker 1: Now we're just waiting for the truth to unfold. What
5:42
Speaker 1: do you think. It's just an overwhelming feeling of of
5:45
Speaker 1: of of victory and an accomplishment. We found Chase, the
5:50
Speaker 1: bad guys in jail and they're going to interrogate him,
5:53
Speaker 1: and I just feel like we we really went all
5:56
Speaker 1: the way for Chase, and I'm just very proud of
5:59
Speaker 1: everyone right now. You know what, you really you really
6:01
Speaker 1: did go all the way for Chase. We're staying on
6:05
Speaker 1: top of the Chase Master story. Daniel Wilkerson with us
6:08
Speaker 1: from Channel Daniel. What's next? You've got to keep in
6:11
Speaker 1: mind even though police have a medical examiner along with
6:14
Speaker 1: police have told us that they are I'm pretty sure
6:18
Speaker 1: this is the body of Chase Masner. I'm we're thinking
6:20
Speaker 1: that the Department of Defense they're gonna send those dental
6:23
Speaker 1: records at any point. But at this point, Stephanie h
6:27
Speaker 1: spoke with her right after uh he Brad Comming was arrested.
6:31
Speaker 1: Of course she knows that this is Chase, and police
6:34
Speaker 1: are pretty sure of it as well. I can also
6:36
Speaker 1: tell you, Nancy, this wall went down in a shopping
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Speaker 1: center right a public's parking lot. It's one of those
6:42
Speaker 1: developments that they're building where they build a lot of
6:44
Speaker 1: shop the shopping center and then they build all the
6:46
Speaker 1: apartments around it. I just happened to be in the
6:49
Speaker 1: same shopping center at Costco Shopping when this went down. Um.
6:55
Speaker 1: I heard the helicopter, didn't think anything of it. I
6:58
Speaker 1: then left Costco and with the Target. And as soon
7:01
Speaker 1: as I got into the Target, I got the call
7:02
Speaker 1: from Stephanie that he had been found. That is Brad Clement.
7:06
Speaker 1: We are on top of it and following the story
7:09
Speaker 1: very closely. We do know that Brad Clement in court
7:12
Speaker 1: will bring you the latest. Is the story unfolds, the
7:15
Speaker 1: question now really remains was it intentional or was it
7:20
Speaker 1: an accident. We're switching gears now to Taylor Swift in
7:25
Speaker 1: court and joining me from writer online dot Com Alexis
7:29
Speaker 1: Terres Chuck. You know, Alexis, The more I look at
7:33
Speaker 1: that photo, it's very clear to me she is cringing
7:37
Speaker 1: away from him. He's got his hand up her skirt
7:40
Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, and that's what she's alleging. He has,
7:43
Speaker 1: of course, says it's not true, and her mother made
7:47
Speaker 1: It's so clear to me because when I look at
7:49
Speaker 1: the picture in the beginning, I said, oh, yeah, you
7:50
Speaker 1: can see his hand is download. But she points out
7:52
Speaker 1: that that dress was bunched up in the back, and
7:55
Speaker 1: she says Taylor doesn't have hips. She's the skinnies as
7:59
Speaker 1: can be. And to me, that proves that this is it.
8:02
Speaker 1: That and Taylor's amazing testimony. When you say amazing testimony,
8:07
Speaker 1: it has been described so far as sharp on point,
8:11
Speaker 1: basically the superstar Taylor Swift saying this DJ groped her
8:17
Speaker 1: in a devious and sneaky act. Those are her words,
8:21
Speaker 1: not mine. Give me a recap of what she has
8:24
Speaker 1: said so far on the stand. I'm talking about pop
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Speaker 1: star Taylor Swift. She got on the stand. She was
8:31
Speaker 1: so confident, she was so calm, and she wasn't afraid
8:35
Speaker 1: of the questions from her attorney or the man who
8:38
Speaker 1: she says, and she kept repeating, this man grabbed my
8:41
Speaker 1: ass cheeks. She would not back down. She said, this
8:43
Speaker 1: is in fact, I know what happened. She said, he
8:46
Speaker 1: grabbed me. She tried to scoot away, and she couldn't
8:49
Speaker 1: get away from him no matter what she tried to do.
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Speaker 1: And she said, I knew it was him. I knew
8:55
Speaker 1: what he was doing. And like many victims, she said,
8:58
Speaker 1: I was basically frozen. I had no idea how to
9:02
Speaker 1: react to this. It had never happened to me before
9:05
Speaker 1: I went on autopilot. I was so scared. Well, this
9:08
Speaker 1: is what she says. These are her words, she says,
9:12
Speaker 1: and I quote, I'm not going to allow you or
9:14
Speaker 1: your client to make me feel this way, to make
9:16
Speaker 1: me feel it was my fault, because it wasn't. And
9:20
Speaker 1: she seemingly testified with a confidence flashes of humor. During
9:26
Speaker 1: a full hour on the stand. She kept repeating that
9:29
Speaker 1: the DJ Mueller put his hand up her dress and
9:32
Speaker 1: grabbed her bare rear end as he posted for a
9:36
Speaker 1: photo with her. Don't you know if this is true,
9:40
Speaker 1: Alexis Torez chuck with a big laugh. He got with
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Speaker 1: his buddies afterwards, exactly, And that's the thing. And she said,
9:46
Speaker 1: you know he was so quick, Alexis, it makes me
9:48
Speaker 1: so mad. I could show would I could chew a
9:51
Speaker 1: nail and half. I'm just so mad about the whole thing.
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Speaker 1: And yes, Alexis, I have prosecuted rapes, sodomy's, child molestations,
9:59
Speaker 1: serial rap, you name it, rape, murders, murder, rapes, the
10:03
Speaker 1: whole kit in caboodle. But for this guy, if these
10:08
Speaker 1: allegations are true too, then turn around and sue her.
10:15
Speaker 1: Sue Taylor Swift after he grabs her rear in And
10:20
Speaker 1: when I say bear, but I mean that because I
10:23
Speaker 1: think she was wearing a thong. So imagine a guy
10:27
Speaker 1: you don't know reaching up your dress and grabbing your
10:31
Speaker 1: bear rear in next to your private parts, I mean,
10:37
Speaker 1: And then he turns around and sues her and she
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Speaker 1: has to go in court and look at his sorry face.
10:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm telling you, I could choo a nail
10:48
Speaker 1: in half Alexis, and she immediately took action. She went right,
10:52
Speaker 1: I mean, she has a security guard sending three feet
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Speaker 1: away from her, and even that didn't protect her. This
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Speaker 1: man still felt confident enough, she says, to lift up
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Speaker 1: her s and put his hand on her bottom. So
11:01
Speaker 1: she went to her security guard, and she went to
11:03
Speaker 1: her mom, and she went to her photographer, and she said,
11:05
Speaker 1: this guy just grabbed me. What do we do? Her
11:08
Speaker 1: team immediately they went and found him. They had given
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Speaker 1: him the tickets for the radio station where he worked.
11:14
Speaker 1: They knew exactly who he was, and they kicked him
11:16
Speaker 1: right out, and she called and complained. She said she
11:19
Speaker 1: wanted to keep it discreet and quiet. She didn't want
11:21
Speaker 1: to make it a big deal because she didn't want
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Speaker 1: this to define her. She wanted to be something that
11:27
Speaker 1: she dealt with privately. And he is the one that
11:29
Speaker 1: went in public with her. With me is Alexis terrest
11:31
Speaker 1: truck from Radar online dot Com. Let's just let me
11:34
Speaker 1: just start at the beginning before we get to the trial.
11:36
Speaker 1: For our serious listeners that are just tuning in right now,
11:40
Speaker 1: take me to the beginning. Taylor Swift is at a concert.
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Speaker 1: She has a meet and greet. Take it On, Alexis.
11:47
Speaker 1: She is at a concert in Denver, Colorado. She invites
11:52
Speaker 1: fans and friends and business associates to a meet and
11:55
Speaker 1: greet with her before her shows. About a twenty minute event.
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Speaker 1: People stand there. She takes a picture with them, and
12:00
Speaker 1: you say hello, it did a great job. She said,
12:02
Speaker 1: thank you so much, thank you for coming to my show.
12:04
Speaker 1: You move on. This guy and his girlfriend come up
12:07
Speaker 1: to her. Taylor says she thought they were drunk. She says,
12:11
Speaker 1: they they were laughing really loudly, really inappropriately and talking. Okay, alright, Alexis, Alexis. Now,
12:19
Speaker 1: you and I have been together many many times on
12:21
Speaker 1: different stories, and I have to say, as a non drinker,
12:24
Speaker 1: it's very uncomfortable when you're around drunk people. I mean,
12:29
Speaker 1: I am certainly not afraid of a cocktail. Okay, I
12:32
Speaker 1: get that from my dear father, Matt Grace, but I
12:35
Speaker 1: just simply choose not to drink. So when you're around
12:39
Speaker 1: a lot of people that are, okay, drunk, it's it's
12:45
Speaker 1: a bad feeling. And from from what I can tell
12:48
Speaker 1: of Taylor Swift, she seems to be pretty much on
12:53
Speaker 1: the straight and narrow in that. I mean she's extremely
12:57
Speaker 1: let's see, disciplined, would that be the right word. Her
13:00
Speaker 1: mom is her manager, as you told me the other day,
13:03
Speaker 1: and I didn't know the selectas. She has family and
13:06
Speaker 1: friends and a lot of key positions around her because
13:08
Speaker 1: she can trust them. And then you know, she's having
13:11
Speaker 1: all this parade of people come back from meeting greats
13:14
Speaker 1: and now here she in her mind. Here these people
13:17
Speaker 1: show up drunk, loud, laughing. You know she's trying to work. Okay,
13:22
Speaker 1: let let's just get real about what's happening. Okay, go ahead,
13:25
Speaker 1: It was work. You're right, it is work. She doesn't
13:28
Speaker 1: before her show, not even after when she can relax.
13:31
Speaker 1: This is before her show. She treats her fans to
13:33
Speaker 1: this meeting with her. So she says, these guys are drunk,
13:36
Speaker 1: the girls staying next to her, and she the guy
13:38
Speaker 1: when he leans in for the picture, grabs her, but
13:41
Speaker 1: he's not standing next to her at all. He's standing
13:44
Speaker 1: you can see his hand is way below her hips
13:47
Speaker 1: and it's back behind her. And they take a picture
13:50
Speaker 1: and she says she just went on autopilot. She didn't
13:53
Speaker 1: know what to do, so she kind of looked at
13:55
Speaker 1: the carpet, and she just said thank you, and they
13:58
Speaker 1: moved on and she was done. Nothing like this ever happened. Where.
14:02
Speaker 1: This is like Taylor's home, her arena's. This is where
14:05
Speaker 1: she works, This is where she meets with her family.
14:07
Speaker 1: This is where she gets ready to perform, where she
14:09
Speaker 1: does a job that supports thousands of people. They are
14:13
Speaker 1: all in that arena working with her to make sure
14:15
Speaker 1: that everything goes off smoothly. And this guy has the
14:17
Speaker 1: audacity to grab her. So she immediately grabs her security
14:22
Speaker 1: and her mom and says, this guy attacks me. Hold on,
14:26
Speaker 1: hold on, hold on, hold on, you put in the
14:28
Speaker 1: cart before the horse. One more thing. His girlfriend is
14:31
Speaker 1: two feet away, his girlfriend. According to Taylor Swift, he
14:36
Speaker 1: grabs her bear rear end with his girlfriend right there. Yep,
14:44
Speaker 1: she is standing next to Taylor. She's on Taylor's right.
14:46
Speaker 1: She's as close as can be to Taylor. If you
14:48
Speaker 1: look in the picture, there's not an inch between the
14:50
Speaker 1: two of them. See the picture of Mueller. He is
14:53
Speaker 1: about a foot away from Taylor, and all he has
14:56
Speaker 1: on her body is his hand on her rear. I
15:00
Speaker 1: want to pause very briefly to thank our partners. Our
15:04
Speaker 1: partners that make our search for Chase Masner possible, make
15:10
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Speaker 1: the search for Chase Masner and the very recent arrest
17:55
Speaker 1: of Brad Clement, we are closely following the file involving
18:00
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift as it unfolds in a court of law.
18:05
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift taking the stand. Now, you know, I'm just
18:08
Speaker 1: wondering how everyone reacted when she took the stand. And
18:12
Speaker 1: I gave our our readers a little preview at crime
18:15
Speaker 1: online dot Com yesterday by combing through her deposition testimony
18:20
Speaker 1: in all my spare time, Alexis Tourez Chuck, and she
18:24
Speaker 1: was pretty true to her deposition testimony. And I've got
18:28
Speaker 1: to say, you know, in so many pictures, Alexis, I
18:31
Speaker 1: couldn't really see the full shot, I mean, soup to nuts,
18:36
Speaker 1: head to toe of Taylor Swift. In that picture he
18:39
Speaker 1: was allegedly grabbing her rear end I can only see
18:42
Speaker 1: part of it. But when I saw the whole thing.
18:46
Speaker 1: I think Ellen Jack is with me. Alan, Are you
18:48
Speaker 1: still there? Yes? I am, okay, Alan, you know what's coming.
18:54
Speaker 1: How does a guy think he can get away with this?
18:58
Speaker 1: And if you look at the picture, you can see
19:00
Speaker 1: her kind of like edging away, and she's got the
19:03
Speaker 1: smile frozen on it on her face and you can
19:06
Speaker 1: see his hand, he said, Alexa's jump in if I'm wrong,
19:10
Speaker 1: he hit one of his seven stories about what happened
19:13
Speaker 1: is that he touched her rib cage. His hand is
19:16
Speaker 1: not at her rib cage, all right, it's down in
19:20
Speaker 1: the booty area. I cannot imagine how a guy would
19:25
Speaker 1: could think that he would get away with us. I mean,
19:28
Speaker 1: was he so drunk? I mean, I don't know that
19:31
Speaker 1: I've ever been that drunk, and that's saying a lot,
19:34
Speaker 1: But how would you ever think that that is okay?
19:37
Speaker 1: And why didn't she just turn around and slap him
19:39
Speaker 1: right then? I think that's probably what would have happened
19:42
Speaker 1: if I had ever tried anything, which I never would. Okay,
19:46
Speaker 1: I'm really not sure what you just said. It's kind
19:48
Speaker 1: of like he should yeah, and that's what she's that's
19:53
Speaker 1: what's trying to go down in the courtroom right now.
19:55
Speaker 1: You know, every woman doesn't turn around and slap somebody.
19:58
Speaker 1: And another thing about that, alexis tourest chuck. Yeah, I
20:01
Speaker 1: hear what Alan saying, and I'm not discounting it. People
20:04
Speaker 1: may say, why didn't she turn out and slap him?
20:07
Speaker 1: You know, for Taylor Swift to slap him, the next
20:10
Speaker 1: thing you do would be sue her for assault and battery.
20:13
Speaker 1: What about that? You know that was an issue she
20:16
Speaker 1: has to think about. I mean in this world, I mean, Al, Alan,
20:23
Speaker 1: do don't you watch TV? For Pete's sake? Don't Haven't
20:26
Speaker 1: you ever heard the word ambulance chaser? I mean, come on, really,
20:31
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift slap somebody. Alexis terrest schuck. Alexis terrest chuck.
20:37
Speaker 1: If she had turned around and slapped him, what do
20:40
Speaker 1: you think the first thing would happen? What? He would
20:43
Speaker 1: have sued her in a heartbeat. But she said, did
20:45
Speaker 1: you know what? I was so stunned. This had never
20:48
Speaker 1: ever happened to me, and I didn't know what to
20:51
Speaker 1: do at all. And she is also a professional. She
20:54
Speaker 1: said she didn't want to ruin everything. There were so
20:56
Speaker 1: many other people in line that were there for her.
20:58
Speaker 1: And she wanted to give that the same treatment that
21:01
Speaker 1: she would have given them had she not been attacked,
21:03
Speaker 1: because she loved her fans and these people that came
21:06
Speaker 1: to this with a special treat for them, and so
21:08
Speaker 1: she wanted to make sure that she treated them well
21:11
Speaker 1: and then dealt with this man. And the only way
21:13
Speaker 1: she knew how if you go the people there to
21:15
Speaker 1: protect her. She had no idea that he was going
21:18
Speaker 1: to do this, and she was stunne She froze. She said,
21:22
Speaker 1: this is this is what we know it's turning into.
21:25
Speaker 1: And he say, she say, but she does have corroborating evidence.
21:31
Speaker 1: And to me, the single most important piece of evidence
21:35
Speaker 1: is the photo. Alexis, tell me what you see in
21:38
Speaker 1: the photo. So you see Taylor flip. She is with
21:42
Speaker 1: this Mueller's girlfriend. Mueller's girlfriend is on her right. She's
21:45
Speaker 1: standing so close to her smiley. You cannot see Taylor's arm.
21:49
Speaker 1: You can't see this woman at all. Then you see
21:51
Speaker 1: a big gap and you see Mueller and you see
21:54
Speaker 1: his arm. He's in a plaid longsleeve shirt, button down shirt,
21:58
Speaker 1: and his hand is not visible, but it is the
22:01
Speaker 1: rest his arm is going down and it is clearly
22:05
Speaker 1: not on her rib cage or her back. It is
22:08
Speaker 1: definitely on her rear. And but we also see is
22:11
Speaker 1: her black dress is pushed up. It's not down smoothly,
22:17
Speaker 1: it's not lying straight. And her mom had said she
22:20
Speaker 1: doesn't have hips. This is not the natural curve of Taylor.
22:23
Speaker 1: Of course everybody has hips, but what she means is
22:26
Speaker 1: hers aren't. She doesn't have an hour last figure. She doesn't.
22:29
Speaker 1: She hasn't that curvy. She's stick man. And so this
22:32
Speaker 1: shows that his hand is underneath and pushing up her dress.
22:37
Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at the photo right now. Um
22:42
Speaker 1: it's exactly as you say, except I think his shirt
22:45
Speaker 1: is more of a Paisley looking thing. She is scooched
22:48
Speaker 1: up to the girlfriend, Taylor swift like holding onto the girlfriend.
22:52
Speaker 1: They're smashed together, and the guy, the DJ is beside
22:57
Speaker 1: her to her left and the photo on the right,
23:00
Speaker 1: and he clearly has his hand on her rear. End.
23:06
Speaker 1: I see what you're saying about the skirt being scooched
23:09
Speaker 1: up on the right. I can't tell how high up
23:12
Speaker 1: it is in the back, but his hand is absolutely
23:17
Speaker 1: positioned Jackie, come over here, is positioned on on her.
23:21
Speaker 1: We wouldn't you say that his hand is like on
23:25
Speaker 1: her red her butt cheeks. I mean, there's no way
23:29
Speaker 1: around it. And what's really killing me is a smile
23:32
Speaker 1: on his face. And don't you know if these allegations
23:36
Speaker 1: are true, repeat, he has not been found guilty in
23:39
Speaker 1: the court of law. But don't you know he ran
23:43
Speaker 1: straight off and told everybody I grabbed Taylor Swifts a
23:48
Speaker 1: double s. Don't you know it? He absolutely and you're
23:53
Speaker 1: right it is more of a Paisley shirt than a
23:56
Speaker 1: plaid shirt, almost camouflaged, but he absolutely that grin on
24:01
Speaker 1: his face. He looks so pleased with himself that he's
24:03
Speaker 1: pulling off this stunt where he's grabbing her behind. Let's
24:06
Speaker 1: but let's think about what will the jury be deliberating.
24:09
Speaker 1: I mean, when you look at this photo and she
24:12
Speaker 1: says one thing, he says another. But what else could
24:16
Speaker 1: a jury possibly infer other than he's grabbing a rear
24:20
Speaker 1: end I don't see anything else. I think, what if
24:24
Speaker 1: playing Devil's advocate, what they could say is his hand
24:27
Speaker 1: is on the back of her dress. It's not. There's
24:29
Speaker 1: not enough proof that it's on her naked rear. You
24:34
Speaker 1: know another thing you got to think about Alexis is,
24:38
Speaker 1: when somebody grabs your rear end, where did they grab it?
24:42
Speaker 1: I mean, you grab somebody's your end in certain regions
24:48
Speaker 1: and you're getting pretty darn close to their genitalia. I mean,
24:53
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't know what where
24:56
Speaker 1: he grabbed her or anything about it. And I know
25:00
Speaker 1: people think this is some people think this is much
25:03
Speaker 1: ado about nothing, but I disagree with that. Any time
25:08
Speaker 1: a woman is taking advantage of and I don't care
25:11
Speaker 1: if she's my favorite restaurant over at the waffle House
25:15
Speaker 1: or she's superstar Taylor Swift, it doesn't matter. And when
25:20
Speaker 1: people laugh about it and make fun about it and
25:23
Speaker 1: discount it, that all plays into the culture of it's okay.
25:30
Speaker 1: And Alexis, I gotta tell you, I've dealt with so
25:32
Speaker 1: many rape victims and sex assault victims. This really rubs
25:37
Speaker 1: me the wrong way. It's just like a tiny, tiny
25:41
Speaker 1: slice of assaults on women. It's very I had to
25:47
Speaker 1: tell you, it's very upsetting to me to see that
25:49
Speaker 1: smile on his face and then he turns around ensues
25:52
Speaker 1: her if these allegations are true, Alexis and she went
25:58
Speaker 1: immediately to her and they went to his boss's First
26:01
Speaker 1: of all, they had him thrown right out of the show,
26:04
Speaker 1: and then they went and told his boss and they said,
26:06
Speaker 1: here is what happened. Now, she says, I did not
26:08
Speaker 1: tell them to fire him, but I told them what
26:11
Speaker 1: he did to me, and that was up to them,
26:14
Speaker 1: and they clearly believed her. What could possibly be in
26:18
Speaker 1: it for him to bring this lawsuit, well, I mean,
26:21
Speaker 1: why would he do it? He says that he she
26:25
Speaker 1: has destroyed his name, destroyed his I mean he has
26:27
Speaker 1: been unemployable since it's happened. And and it's not just
26:32
Speaker 1: a oh I crushed my car when I was drunk
26:37
Speaker 1: all by myself and didn't hurt anybody. This is lu
26:41
Speaker 1: This is something with like the one probably the most
26:43
Speaker 1: famous pop singer in the world. And it was so
26:46
Speaker 1: creepy that he would do this to Taylor Swift in
26:50
Speaker 1: her house. Basically, you know, you've been invited for your
26:53
Speaker 1: job to come in and meet her and say hello,
26:56
Speaker 1: and her music gets played on your station all the time.
26:59
Speaker 1: You have a good relationship with her, and then you
27:00
Speaker 1: assault her. And if Taylor can't if you didn't stop
27:05
Speaker 1: Taylor Swift or being assaulted, and nobody can stop at
27:07
Speaker 1: it everybody. People can just grab you on the street,
27:09
Speaker 1: they can grab you in your office, and can grab
27:11
Speaker 1: you in your house. This is such a violation of
27:13
Speaker 1: her private space and it just shows that this man
27:15
Speaker 1: had just no regard for her as a person at all.
27:22
Speaker 1: You know. Another thing, if she had not fought back,
27:25
Speaker 1: you know, and a lot of corporate cultures, you get
27:29
Speaker 1: a lawsuit and it's just settled. And I understand that.
27:34
Speaker 1: I understand it because it costs so much, so much
27:40
Speaker 1: money for a corporate giant, you know, a big, big
27:46
Speaker 1: operation like Taylor Swift. She's not just Taylor Swift, she's
27:49
Speaker 1: Tellor Swift, Inc. You know. It's it's multimillion dollars at
27:54
Speaker 1: stake all the time. It's a machine for them to
27:57
Speaker 1: have to go to trial is very area expensive. I'm
28:01
Speaker 1: talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's easier, so
28:05
Speaker 1: much easier and so much more cost effective to settle,
28:10
Speaker 1: you know, settle it for fifty thou instead of trying
28:13
Speaker 1: it for half a million. Really seriously, especially when you
28:17
Speaker 1: take into the account her time, all her lawyers, everybody
28:21
Speaker 1: in court, that is a lot of money. She's not
28:24
Speaker 1: doing that, she's not taking agreeing to a settlement to
28:27
Speaker 1: make him go away. She's saying no, and she's standing
28:32
Speaker 1: up in court. So what's going to happen next, Alexis Terrestria,
28:36
Speaker 1: let me ask you a more question before I get
28:38
Speaker 1: to the trial, Alexis, let me ask you this. If
28:43
Speaker 1: she hadn't a fought back, can't you see the field
28:46
Speaker 1: day online, all the memes, all the jokes about Taylor Swift.
28:52
Speaker 1: I mean, it's going to be a cold day in
28:54
Speaker 1: h E double l before some other dude sneaks up
28:57
Speaker 1: behind her and grabs her are end? I mean, really
29:01
Speaker 1: it Actually, it actually worries me that people are going
29:05
Speaker 1: to try to start doing this with other people. Because
29:08
Speaker 1: even if she if she wins, When she wins, I
29:11
Speaker 1: feel that this is going to be a great victory
29:15
Speaker 1: for her. But I feel like people didn't get creepy
29:17
Speaker 1: ideas and they're like, well he almost you know, and
29:19
Speaker 1: they are just gonna try to do it. It really
29:21
Speaker 1: worries me for everyone's safety. And I don't understand why
29:24
Speaker 1: people just think it's okay to touch anybody at all,
29:27
Speaker 1: and certainly not somebody in a professional situation and in
29:29
Speaker 1: a sexual assault situation. But she she had to fight back.
29:33
Speaker 1: She never could have settled this at all. It would
29:35
Speaker 1: have been admitting a guilt. And she says, I knew
29:38
Speaker 1: a hundred percent exactly what happened. This man grabbed me
29:41
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to let him get away with this.
29:44
Speaker 1: And she said she dealt with it very quietly. She
29:46
Speaker 1: never went public with this at all. They quietly called
29:49
Speaker 1: the radio station. He lost his job. She didn't, she said,
29:52
Speaker 1: she didn't. This is not just about Taylor Swift. No,
29:58
Speaker 1: this is about women everywhere every day that get assaulted,
30:05
Speaker 1: that gets sexually harassed, that get underpaid, that get talked
30:10
Speaker 1: down to the works. I mean, come on, Alexis, You're
30:15
Speaker 1: in the news business, I'm in the law business. How
30:19
Speaker 1: many times do you just suck it up and keep
30:22
Speaker 1: going because there's too much of a D A M
30:26
Speaker 1: in bother to lead yet another crusade. I mean, you know,
30:33
Speaker 1: and it it just wears you down. And I don't
30:36
Speaker 1: know all your stories. Although we're friends, we talk about
30:41
Speaker 1: good things. Stories are children. But I don't know of
30:44
Speaker 1: a single woman in the business world that has not
30:47
Speaker 1: encountered this. And I'll just start with my mother. She
30:50
Speaker 1: worked her way up from a bank teller to a
30:52
Speaker 1: CFO of a company, and you can only imagine the
30:55
Speaker 1: crap she put up with and people are That is
31:01
Speaker 1: why Taylor Swift standing up for herself is basically saying
31:06
Speaker 1: a message to all people, men and women, really stand
31:09
Speaker 1: up for yourself. You know, she obviously has a lot
31:13
Speaker 1: of money and can fight this. Not everybody is in
31:16
Speaker 1: her position. But if you see the way that she
31:19
Speaker 1: has been questioned in this, it is probably the most
31:23
Speaker 1: respectful sexual assault case I've ever covered. And I know
31:27
Speaker 1: you've you've prosecuted so many, but for the ones that
31:29
Speaker 1: I've covered, there are always questions about, well, why was
31:32
Speaker 1: she wearing a thong underwear? Why wasn't she wearing boy
31:36
Speaker 1: shorts underneath? There a different kind of underwear, Why was
31:39
Speaker 1: she wearing a dress? Why couldn't she working? Nothing like
31:42
Speaker 1: that has been brought up this time. It is been
31:45
Speaker 1: about please do not go to the underwear. Please just listen,
31:50
Speaker 1: because you know, Alexis, you haven't been on every single
31:54
Speaker 1: show we've done on Taylor Swift. Most guys Colleen wanting
31:58
Speaker 1: to know what was she wearing underwear exactly? And then
32:02
Speaker 1: when I and then they want me to explain the
32:04
Speaker 1: whole song thing. Okay, I was doing laundry the other day.
32:08
Speaker 1: My son came and he said, Mom, you've got to
32:11
Speaker 1: get some new underwear. I said, John David, when I
32:16
Speaker 1: get you through graduate schools lone, then I'll buy some
32:18
Speaker 1: new underwear. Okay, when you had a nice, fancy job
32:21
Speaker 1: doing something awesome, then you can buy me a new
32:23
Speaker 1: pair of underwear. And now go do your reading assignment.
32:27
Speaker 1: Since please don't start with the underwear. Okay, I never
32:31
Speaker 1: imagine those words coming out of my mouth. Okay, Alexis
32:34
Speaker 1: Terres Chuck. We're standing by at the courthouse waiting for
32:37
Speaker 1: the latest in Taylor Swift. Thanks friend joining me right
32:42
Speaker 1: now is a guest. I have really been looking forward
32:45
Speaker 1: to talking to its author, Riley Sager, which is a pseudonym,
32:52
Speaker 1: it's not Seger's real name, And he is the author
32:59
Speaker 1: of the best thriller I've read in a long time.
33:04
Speaker 1: It's called Final Girls. And you know how hard it
33:08
Speaker 1: is for me to make time to read a book.
33:11
Speaker 1: When I'm reading a book, I feel so guilty because
33:13
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be writing my own book. But I've
33:16
Speaker 1: just got to say I loved it. I'm talking about
33:20
Speaker 1: Final Girls. And it's the first thriller from Riley Sager,
33:26
Speaker 1: which I said is a pseudonym. Riley native of Pennsylvania, writer, editor,
33:30
Speaker 1: graphic designer who now lives in Princeton, New Jersey. Now
33:35
Speaker 1: Riley Sager not giving away the author's identity. Yet loves
33:40
Speaker 1: to read, loves movies, loves to bake. Okay, Riley Sager,
33:48
Speaker 1: identify yourself there. Yes, wait, wait, wait, so you're not
33:54
Speaker 1: a girl. No, I'm not a girl. And a lot
33:57
Speaker 1: of people, um get confused about that. Unfortunately, Hey, you
34:03
Speaker 1: know what, I don't care if you're a little green
34:05
Speaker 1: man from Mars. This book is awesome. I love the book. Okay,
34:11
Speaker 1: but first let me understand this. You went under a
34:14
Speaker 1: pseudonym because there were many reasons. Um. One of them was,
34:20
Speaker 1: I mean you because you're a published author. You know
34:23
Speaker 1: how publishing can be weird sometimes publishing and it can
34:30
Speaker 1: be weird, and you know, there's so many books out there,
34:33
Speaker 1: and it's really hard to like sort of break out
34:35
Speaker 1: from the pack. And in my previous books, I was
34:39
Speaker 1: not breaking out of the pack, if you know what
34:41
Speaker 1: I mean. I was like at the back of the pack.
34:44
Speaker 1: And once you get in that position, you sort of
34:46
Speaker 1: need to just switch things up. And so my agent
34:52
Speaker 1: and I were like, you know, let's hit that reset
34:53
Speaker 1: button on your career and you know, come up with
34:55
Speaker 1: a pen name. And so that's sort of how it
34:58
Speaker 1: was born. Okay, So Riley Sager is not a woman.
35:04
Speaker 1: But I've got to tell you something I would never
35:06
Speaker 1: know it from reading Final Girls, the name of his
35:12
Speaker 1: first thriller, Riley. The plot line behind this it's all
35:19
Speaker 1: about college unit. I'm gonna get back about how you
35:22
Speaker 1: picked the name Riley Sager, but I've got to get
35:24
Speaker 1: into this book. Quincy. Quincy Carpenter goes on a vacation
35:29
Speaker 1: with five of her friends and comes back alone. She's
35:34
Speaker 1: the only survivor of a massacre, and I mean a
35:39
Speaker 1: masacre like hum chainsaw massacre, um movie horror style massacre.
35:47
Speaker 1: And in one instant she becomes a member of a
35:51
Speaker 1: club that nobody wants to be part of a group
35:54
Speaker 1: of similar survivors known in the media as the Final Girls.
36:01
Speaker 1: One of those Final Girls is Lisa, and this reminded
36:05
Speaker 1: me of the Ted Bundy case down in Florida, who
36:07
Speaker 1: lost nine sorority sisters to a college dropouts knife. Okay,
36:13
Speaker 1: I can't help but attach real cases to the cases
36:17
Speaker 1: you've made up. Sam who goes up against someone called
36:21
Speaker 1: the sack Man during her shift at the night Light
36:25
Speaker 1: in I Love that name, The Ninth Light in And
36:28
Speaker 1: now Quincy, who runs bleeding through the woods to get
36:31
Speaker 1: away from Pine Cottage and the man she refers to
36:35
Speaker 1: now only as him with a capital H. So she's
36:40
Speaker 1: one of the final girls left over from murders. And
36:46
Speaker 1: then suddenly those girls start dying. One turns up dead.
36:52
Speaker 1: I believe it's in a bathtub. So where did you
36:55
Speaker 1: get the idea for final girls? Well, the term final
37:01
Speaker 1: girl is actually film study speak for the girl that's
37:07
Speaker 1: always standing at the end of a horror movie. And like,
37:10
Speaker 1: the best example is always like Jamie Lee Curtis and Halloween.
37:15
Speaker 1: And I was actually watching Halloween on Halloween and like
37:22
Speaker 1: started thinking about, like the the concept of the final girl,
37:25
Speaker 1: Like she is a survivor and it's always a happy
37:28
Speaker 1: ending for her, and you know, the movie ends on
37:32
Speaker 1: an upbeat note normally, and I started thinking about how
37:36
Speaker 1: what it must be like for that last woman standing
37:40
Speaker 1: and how it's really not a happy ending at all. Yes,
37:44
Speaker 1: she survives, but all her friends are dead and she
37:47
Speaker 1: just has years and years of trauma and struggling ahead
37:52
Speaker 1: of her. And so that was really something that interested
37:55
Speaker 1: me to see, like, what is the life of a
37:57
Speaker 1: final girl, like ten fifteen years that this massacre happens. Wow,
38:05
Speaker 1: When you were just talking, everything that ran through my head,
38:10
Speaker 1: from um, living through my fiance's murderer, to that feeling
38:16
Speaker 1: when I walked away from my dad's casket, to all
38:22
Speaker 1: tons of crime victims that I have represented over the
38:25
Speaker 1: years that yes, you when the case knock on wood,
38:34
Speaker 1: but then you walk out of the courthouse and it's
38:38
Speaker 1: just you and the world and this memory of this
38:44
Speaker 1: traumatic experience that you live with every single day. And
38:50
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, and I'll just keep referring to
38:53
Speaker 1: your as Riley's acre, but that that feeling of it
38:59
Speaker 1: just being you when you said the final girl, Wow,
39:06
Speaker 1: you know what I've never I know that feeling, and
39:10
Speaker 1: I know that feeling crime victims when the case is
39:12
Speaker 1: over and everybody leaves the courthouse and they're just standing
39:15
Speaker 1: there and looking at you like somehow I'm going to
39:17
Speaker 1: fix it. Yeah, like it's over, but it's it's not over.
39:21
Speaker 1: It's never over. No, how how do you know that.
39:27
Speaker 1: I mean, have you been a victim of crime? How
39:29
Speaker 1: do you know that feeling? Because it's the strangest feeling,
39:34
Speaker 1: and I felt it after every jury trial. I not
39:39
Speaker 1: a victim of crime, but it was born out of
39:43
Speaker 1: a really really bad year when just like everything just
39:51
Speaker 1: sort of like went off the rails. You know, there
39:54
Speaker 1: were deaths in the family, there was you know, like
39:56
Speaker 1: a job loss, there was you know, a it just
40:00
Speaker 1: was like this year of accumulating just bad stuff. By
40:06
Speaker 1: you know, the end of it, I'm like, I'm just
40:07
Speaker 1: so tired of this, like why is everything going wrong?
40:12
Speaker 1: And I really, even though our journeys are very different,
40:15
Speaker 1: you know, Quincy survived and unspeakable thing, and these girls
40:18
Speaker 1: all did, but in a way I could relate to that.
40:22
Speaker 1: I could relate to their anger and their frustration and
40:27
Speaker 1: even the sense of you know, the character of Quincy
40:30
Speaker 1: is very much in denial. She puts on this veneer
40:33
Speaker 1: of you know, sweetness, and she's a baking blogger and
40:36
Speaker 1: she has a beautiful apartment and she tells everyone I'm
40:39
Speaker 1: fine when she's so not fine. And I was doing
40:43
Speaker 1: the same thing in my own life, and so that
40:45
Speaker 1: really helped me understand and relate to her character. It
40:49
Speaker 1: made it a lot easier to write her. Wow, Okay,
40:55
Speaker 1: I'm just soaking in every single thing that you're saying. Now.
40:58
Speaker 1: I have an issue, not a problem, but an issue.
41:01
Speaker 1: I haven't quite identified it yet because I haven't slowed
41:04
Speaker 1: down long enough to think about it. The boyfriend, her boyfriend,
41:08
Speaker 1: who was a public defender. She has a problem with
41:11
Speaker 1: him representing people who clearly are guilty. He says they
41:16
Speaker 1: have a right to be represented and they're both right.
41:20
Speaker 1: Where did you come up with his character? I thought
41:23
Speaker 1: that he would be a very good counterpoint for her,
41:28
Speaker 1: um because she, you know, went through a very traumatic
41:33
Speaker 1: thing at the hands of a specific person, and you know,
41:39
Speaker 1: I think she's drawn to the safety of his profession
41:42
Speaker 1: and he's a you know, a very solid presence. But
41:45
Speaker 1: at the same time, there is this aspect of he's
41:50
Speaker 1: defending people who have done horrible things, and that sort
41:55
Speaker 1: of really does cause a rift in their relationship. You know.
42:01
Speaker 1: I never let myself get close to very many defense
42:05
Speaker 1: attorneys in all the years, because I may like you know,
42:11
Speaker 1: some I have, but I may like them, you know,
42:15
Speaker 1: on a personal basis, but it's really that's a tough
42:19
Speaker 1: pill for me to swallow that they know they're getting
42:24
Speaker 1: guilty people out of jail, and anecdotally and statistically, when
42:30
Speaker 1: people get out of jail, they kind of do the
42:32
Speaker 1: same thing. Again. It's just like releasing someone out that
42:37
Speaker 1: you know is going to hurt an innocent person. Again,
42:41
Speaker 1: that really weighed heavily on me. Let me let me
42:45
Speaker 1: ask you a question. Your star, Quincy Carpenter. Is she
42:49
Speaker 1: patterned after any particular person? No, not, not really. I
42:55
Speaker 1: I wanted to you know, when when you're writing, like
42:59
Speaker 1: the character is so of form as you as you
43:03
Speaker 1: go along, and it's a very weird process and it
43:05
Speaker 1: sounds weird when you know I'm talking about it, But
43:08
Speaker 1: she really kind of just developed and evolved during the
43:12
Speaker 1: writing process, so she wasn't based on any one person,
43:15
Speaker 1: especially any one survivor. You know, just hearing your voice,
43:22
Speaker 1: it just, um, I don't know what I was expecting.
43:25
Speaker 1: I guess you're just so real. And guys with me
43:30
Speaker 1: right now? Is author Riley Sager pseudonym read about that
43:36
Speaker 1: in the Wall Street Journal and he is talking about
43:41
Speaker 1: this incredible new book, Final Girls, his very first thriller
43:47
Speaker 1: by Riley Sager and I've got to tell you, as
43:51
Speaker 1: a fellow writer, I certainly don't put myself in the
43:54
Speaker 1: same league with you and other grades, but I'm really
43:58
Speaker 1: knocked out Final Girls and you're thinking behind it when
44:03
Speaker 1: you describe Jamie Lee Curtis and that last person standing
44:08
Speaker 1: and now what she's going through. I've got to tell you.
44:13
Speaker 1: It's an incredible book. And all I can say is,
44:17
Speaker 1: I'm really you know, you don't want to think about
44:19
Speaker 1: this right now, but I'm really looking forward to your
44:22
Speaker 1: next book. Oh, thank you. It's it's a lot of pressure.
44:26
Speaker 1: I have to have to admit I was. I was
44:29
Speaker 1: working on it when all of the the buzz started
44:33
Speaker 1: to build, and you know, we were getting some really
44:35
Speaker 1: wonderful things said by really incredible authors, and I just
44:39
Speaker 1: was like at my laptop, going, oh my gosh, I'm
44:41
Speaker 1: never going to top this. M I. But you know,
44:44
Speaker 1: you gotta keep working and soldier on and write the
44:48
Speaker 1: best book you possibly can. So I hope it's working.
44:51
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I'm in line at the bookstore
44:54
Speaker 1: right now. Okay, I can't wait. Thank you so much
44:58
Speaker 1: for being with us, everybody the author of Final Girls,
45:03
Speaker 1: and it is just it's incredible. I actually broke down
45:08
Speaker 1: and I went and hid from the twins and read
45:11
Speaker 1: your book and I just I love it. You're awesome.
45:15
Speaker 1: Thank you for spending a little bit of time with us,
45:17
Speaker 1: and God willing will meet again. Thank you so much,
45:23
Speaker 1: my friend Mike. Bye bye, Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,
45:28
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,