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What HVAC Owners Get Wrong About the Labor Shortage · Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: The majority of companies don't even have a CRM.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't know why they need one.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hey, the beginning of professionalization of an industry is uh groups like yours that are training the industry how to run a better business.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: Every company now wants an experienced technician.
0:14
SPEAKER_01: What I'm here to tell them is that no, you don't.
0:16
SPEAKER_01: Now we're like freaking drowning in gyms.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: They should be here and we need to like really target them next because we could use their help.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to hire, you know, necessarily a 15-year tech who's never seen an inverter before.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: If you could get every HVAC owner to change one thing about how they support and develop their techs, what would it be?
0:32
SPEAKER_00: Um the Welcome back to Owned and Operated, a top 150 business and entrepreneurship podcast.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, John Wilson, and on this show, we talk about the home service industry, how to build companies, how to buy companies, and the stuff that we're doing inside my own company here in the Midwest.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by Jennifer Manzo from HVA Chicks.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: And we're really excited to talk to Jennifer.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've been following her on LinkedIn for a while and she shares a ton of great stuff.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: So we'll had her handle below.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but Jennifer, welcome to the show.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for making the trip out.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: Of course.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: From Maine.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: From Maine.
1:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: What's the what like has Maine has heating season already like full fledged?
1:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:15
SPEAKER_01: And I was so excited to come to Ohio because it's very close to our same weather.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: And I show up and it's 82 degrees here.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's 85.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's gonna be warm as heck today.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is funny.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, I would just love it if you could introduce a little bit about yourself, a little about all the different projects you're in as a way to start off.
1:32
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
1:33
SPEAKER_01: So um I own an HVAC company in Maine, very, very small, very just um niche and high performance in Naples.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: It is Cebago Lake area.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: It's the touristy area of Napa of Maine.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:45
SPEAKER_01: Like coast on the coast.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Sort of on the coast, yes.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Southern Maine.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:49
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: Um and then I'm more on the lakes coast rather than the ocean coast, but yes.
1:53
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I own a company there.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: And I also am the founder of HVHX Coalition.
1:59
SPEAKER_01: We are a coalition of roughly 8,300 people right now.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: That's great.
2:02
SPEAKER_01: Um techs, owners, um, you know, people who want to help each other and who want to get help.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: So that's what we do.
2:09
SPEAKER_01: We offer free training to technicians who can't afford training or aren't offered training in their business, their their company.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we also train whole companies.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty great.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is cool.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: Uh 8,300 people, just like walk me through that really quick.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: Is it like a Facebook group or is it like an internal community?
2:27
SPEAKER_00: Like how, where and how does this community work?
2:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:30
SPEAKER_01: So it is essentially an internal community, but it's everywhere.
2:34
SPEAKER_01: So we use a Facebook group as our base.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: So, like that's kind of you know, home plate.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: That's our our office, if you will.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: So we have 8,300 people who have chosen to and been accepted as members.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: There's it's free membership.
2:45
SPEAKER_01: You just have to want to be there and not be a bot.
2:48
SPEAKER_01: Um, because of that, we're able to keep a very clean Facebook group for like five years.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: People make jokes about it all the time.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: How it's like the only group you can go into and post your work, right?
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's really great.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: Everybody works together.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Plus your work, like, hey, I just did this install.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Not get absolutely torn apart, you know, online.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's really great.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: Every single person is there for the same reason.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: It's 82, 8,300 um like-minded people that all care about our industry very much.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is interesting.
3:12
SPEAKER_00: I think um obviously the content that we create on this show is like owner operator uh content.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Um but it so like usually like that's where my head goes for and like that's the Facebook groups and stuff I think about, but it's always like Reddit as an example.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Like the plumbing subreddit has like a million freaking plumbers in there.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely crazy um how just big that or or uh Roger Wakefield even as an example, like his YouTube channel is humongous.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: Just as following.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, it's crazy.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's crazy.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Roger's actually really great.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: He's one of my always been one of my mentors and idols.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: He's amazing.
3:53
SPEAKER_01: I love his channel.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: If you don't follow it, go do it for sure.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
3:56
SPEAKER_00: All right, so yeah, uh, so we own an HVAC company in Naples.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: And Maine, I've never been to Maine.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: Most people haven't.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: But like I'm assuming it's like, I would imagine like it's beautiful, like beautiful and cold.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful and cold most of the time.
4:10
SPEAKER_01: In the summer, it's very muggy and hot.
4:11
SPEAKER_01: It's like Florida.
4:12
unknown: Oh, wow.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: But um, now we're in heating season.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: Heating season starts overnight in Maine.
4:17
SPEAKER_01: It's very much like it goes from a hundred degrees to you wake up the next morning and need a hoodie.
4:21
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it's beautiful.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: We can't have billboards, we can't have anything that's taller than a pine tree because it'll obstruct the view.
4:27
SPEAKER_01: So anywhere you go in Maine is a gorgeous view.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter where you're going.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: As you think about um, could you explain the seasonality of Maine?
4:35
SPEAKER_00: I think that the seasonality is kind of interesting.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: We uh like as an example, I actually think Ohio is like one of the worst states to own an HVAC business in.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: As you're thinking about like maximizing like business.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: Because like if you're in Phoenix, right, you know, it's like job security.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, 11 months out of the year.
4:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's the mildness of the temperature that you can.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a little too mild here.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: And like we're uh we get a lot of snow because we're we get lake effect.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Yes, which I'm it sounds like you're yeah, sounds like you guys do two.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: But um but yeah, it's like it's not that it's not cold enough to be crazy.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And I'm assuming like you're far more north than we are.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: So I'm assuming that like my heating season is maybe like four or five months, and yours is six or seven.
5:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: Mine is, I would say my I always say that my heating season is nine months, and that is because of maintenance season.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: Maintenance is a huge part of that.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So people can't we have to be very, very um extreme in a very cold climate like ours with maintenance, because that's the number one reason for a breakdown.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: So we have to be very on top of that.
5:41
SPEAKER_01: So we have, I would say, probably three months of just maintenance for boilers, for furnaces, for heating.
5:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh when does that start?
5:49
SPEAKER_01: That would start this year.
5:50
SPEAKER_01: It started a little bit later because we had such a hot summer.
5:53
SPEAKER_01: People just weren't ready to have their heating, you know, tested even in their houses.
5:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think this year it started probably end of August, and normally it would start like beginning of August.
6:01
SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're doing it already.
6:04
SPEAKER_01: So Okay.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: All right.
6:05
SPEAKER_00: And then it goes through what, April, May?
6:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: So we have four seasons technically, but from an HVAC perspective or an owner's perspective, we have two busy seasons and a very small slow season.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: So we have, I would say the month of November is slow, probably because of expense more so than need.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, it's because Christmas is coming.
6:26
SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of families, our area is very, very old.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we have another slow season in like March, April, where it's just so mild.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: Like you said, nobody is thinking about air conditioning and nobody needs their heat on anymore.
6:38
SPEAKER_01: So, or if they do, they've already had their service calls, you know, for the winter.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: As your business grows, the financial decisions get a lot more expensive.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Things like hiring techs, buying trucks, raising pricing, and marketing.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: If you're making those decisions without really understanding your numbers, you're probably leaving a pile of money on the table.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's where profit and grit comes in.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: Tyler has built, scaled, and sold a$25 million service business.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: So his advice comes from real operating experience.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: You'll work with him directly to improve your cash flow, understand your margins, and build better forecasts to make you more confident as you make decisions as you grow.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: One client increased bottom line profit by 11% after fixing pricing, improving job mix, and stabilizing their cash flow.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: If you're doing between three and five million a year and you want more clarity around your finances, book a free 20-minute strategy call at the link below.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is really interesting.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: I think that um yeah, Ohio's a funny one.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: And I and as I think about Ohio, so I I was in a I was on a trip and we were looking at a business uh and they were in like the heartlets of like uh America.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: And it was a two-hour flight, which to me is not very long.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Not very short.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh so two-hour flight.
7:53
SPEAKER_00: And when I went there, I wore a sweater leaving Ohio, and this was like August.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: So I was wearing a sweater, and it was 105 degrees there.
8:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what the fuck?
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Also, this is why I'm explicit.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: I actually just got a text.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad because this is why I'm explicit on Apple.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: But like, that's crazy.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: So this so then it really got me like kind of obsessed with like where should you be thinking about an HVAC company?
8:17
SPEAKER_00: I feel like North Dakota or like Minnesota.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: Like, how close to Canada can you get?
8:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: And how close to the right in the south can you get?
8:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:24
SPEAKER_01: And like uh, yeah.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: That's very true.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: I would say I've always thought of Ohio as similar to Maine as far as seasonality goes.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: Um I think we have all four cities.
8:35
SPEAKER_00: I think we're a lot closer than like, you know, Ohio to Phoenix.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, for sure.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: Like we would never get an 82-degree day right now, though.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And you guys are like, I I couldn't believe it this morning when I saw that.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm also surprised.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm also surprised.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Very cool.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Um okay, all right.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: So your heating season a little bit longer.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Your AC season is probably much shorter.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Do you ever get a little bit more?
8:53
SPEAKER_01: It's shorter than our heating season, yes.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, I will say, because of the extremes, so we have such a humid and muggy climate in the summer.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: People don't, the customers don't know how to handle that.
9:06
SPEAKER_01: So we have a lot more minor service calls, probably than most people would in a hotter climate.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if something seems to be wrong, it's much more noticeable where we are rather than, you know, maybe in Florida, they wouldn't even notice it.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: They'd just be like, oh, wait, it's hot in here.
9:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, but where we're at, people notice immediately when their HVAC isn't working correctly.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: So I would I would say that we have a much, a much shorter AC season, but the revenue-wise, it's really not much different as far as service goes.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: So it's just wham bam, thank you, ma'am.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Like you are running all the time.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:38
unknown: Yeah.
9:38
SPEAKER_00: And how many days above a hundred?
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, not many.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I I think it's probably 10.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: I think on design it's 10.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: I think you're the only voyeur you've ever had on the show from like Maine.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I'm like, I'm just curious.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: Most people.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: It's funny though what you say about Ohio, because it's like the HVAC capital of the world.
9:54
SPEAKER_01: Akron is like pretty much.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: They've got, well, you're out here.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: And then um True Tech Tools and Measure Quick both have their base in Akron.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: So there's lots of lots of great companies that chose Ohio.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Ohio became um like a sleeper for really big businesses, like service providers.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of humongous service providers that um but you know what's kind of interesting, like at like Eco is an example.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: Just thinking purely of the service providers.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Like uh, yeah, Eco's an example, Apex Pro is your example.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but uh Ohio's huge for service providers.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: It's a huge population.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: There's like 12 million people in Ohio.
10:34
SPEAKER_00: And um a ton of really big companies, and where oh, but a ton of them have plumbing as their base because of the seasonality of HVAC.
10:43
SPEAKER_00: It's just a little bit a little bit of a different uh flavor versus like, yeah, if I was in Vegas, yeah.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: Right.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where a lot of owners get it wrong, too, is not adding those things to their company.
10:52
SPEAKER_01: Like just me adding refrigeration alone added a whole new company worth of revenue to my, you know, to my roster.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Even if it's you know mild, there's still breakdowns in the refrigeration world, whereas same with plumbing in Ohio.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so how'd you get into HVAC?
11:08
SPEAKER_01: So my husband Val, everybody that knows me knows this story, um, but I'll tell it again.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: So my husband Val is a technician of 30 years.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: And so he worked for the same company from the time we got together when I was 18 until I went out on my own with him.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Um, so very, very long time.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I got in uh just before COVID.
11:28
SPEAKER_01: I was looking for, I knew I was gonna have to pull all of my kids to homeschool.
11:31
SPEAKER_01: It was nothing to do with COVID at the time.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I ended up doing it because of COVID because it was like you can't wait any longer, right?
11:37
SPEAKER_01: So I pulled all my kids to homeschool and I actually opened a community homeschool that was for free at the time of COVID because there were so many people who had to work who were essential, but their kids couldn't go to school.
11:45
SPEAKER_01: So I taught a lot of them.
11:47
SPEAKER_01: And at the time I was a stay-home teacher.
11:49
SPEAKER_01: That's what I was doing.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I was looking for vocational um ways that they could do it virtually, learn a vocation.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: And so for my high school students, I've stumbled upon an online trade school that was free at the time.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: I still work with them every single day.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: I work for them and with them now, all these 10 years later almost.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they're a great, great resource.
12:09
SPEAKER_01: So I started going through.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this can't be real.
12:11
SPEAKER_01: You can't get your EPA for free, right?
12:13
SPEAKER_01: That's impossible.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: No, I did it.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: I did it on my own on my computer, and I just walked away with my EPA.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: I looked at Val.
12:18
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, hey, I I uh have my EPA license.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: He's like, what?
12:21
SPEAKER_01: So uh yeah, we kind of did the COVID thing, right?
12:25
SPEAKER_01: And then like throughout COVID, I was just learning and learning and learning, going on calls with Val.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: He was teaching me about install and all these things.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: He's a great teacher, very, very quiet man.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: You have to be to be with someone like me.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but he's a great teacher.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: He knows how to teach me.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: So I learned a whole lot.
12:39
SPEAKER_01: And then I realized that there was just no community for people like me when we went out on our own together.
12:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that's where HBHIx was born shortly after.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: No community like you, uh I'm grabbing onto the name, like female entrepreneurs or female technician.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Female technicians at the time.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I wasn't okay.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Do you know what the percentage is?
12:59
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we're two percent of the industry.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: 2%.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And that's new.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: We were 1% of the industry until last year.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's we've had a major, major, major growth as far as women in the industry.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's also including dispatchers, owners, um, marketing people, people that aren't technicians.
13:15
SPEAKER_01: So technicians are even smaller than that.
13:16
SPEAKER_01: They're like 0.5%.
13:18
SPEAKER_01: So um, but yeah, at the time it was just there are women's groups out there for women that are in HVACR, but they're not for technicians.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: And we all tried to join them.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: We had a bunch of girls that were all trying to join them and find a community, and it just was not working out for us.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: We don't we have one of our our big, our big priorities is that we don't create division in the industry between genders.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's really, really hard to do that when a a group doesn't allow men in, right?
13:42
SPEAKER_01: So um we kind of just started our own.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: I I started our own.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: I started HVHX Coalition, but I was the only one in it at that time.
13:48
SPEAKER_01: And I just kind of opened it up and just said, you know, um, I don't know what to offer.
13:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't know what you need, but I know that I'm alone and you're probably alone.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: So if you are, message me.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: You know, we didn't even have a Facebook group at that time.
13:59
SPEAKER_01: I got my first two members, and those we call them the OG three.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: We're all still together today with 8,300 members.
14:06
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a lot of fun.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: It's great.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh what like what does the the community like?
14:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh how does it get involved or there's lots of ways.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:15
SPEAKER_01: So we have um programs, is what we call them.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: They're really not, they're just resources.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: So essentially, um my jobs are all kind of split apart.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: So I'm an influencer for manufacturing companies like Field Bulls.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also I am a teacher, so I train technicians.
14:33
SPEAKER_01: I also am an owner, so I coach owners.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, we have things like, I mean, book club, weekly book club.
14:39
SPEAKER_01: We have we have a weekly tech hangout on Saturday mornings just in Discord, where new techs or techs who maybe you had a you've never joined before, but last week you had a really rough call and you didn't call the tech sport line.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: It's driving you crazy.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: You need to talk to somebody about it.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: You pop in, there's 20 of us in Discord talking, you know, shooting the shit.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we have just little things like that, all the way up to things like we have housed newly homeless female technicians off of the street with our kids before with DV situations, or we have 22 lawyers, lawyers in 22 states who will work with our people.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: Domestic violence.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, the other thing, unfortunately, recently we're dealing with is job site violence against women.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of um opening up new resources right now, which we don't normally do.
15:21
SPEAKER_01: We're we've been very set in our ways.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, but now we're kind of gathering new resources as female service technicians in other industries, um, namely welding, um, become abused on a job site or murdered in that case.
15:35
SPEAKER_01: So now we're bringing in more lawyers for other things.
15:38
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we offer things like that on the on the female side.
15:41
SPEAKER_01: But then also things like, you know, wage problems, you know, if if a tech, you know, had been, you know, abused wagely, we would take care of that as well.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: We have lawyers that will take care of that.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, so we offer just about everything.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: There's literally nothing that a technician could need that we don't offer.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: And then also because I run it and own it myself, we're not even a nonprofit.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: We're not for-profit, we're not nonprofit, we're all volunteers.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: So because of that, we're able to add constantly.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: If somebody comes to me and says, hey, we should have this, it happens.
16:09
SPEAKER_01: The next day it started.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: Okay, you're running that program now.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: So it works out really, really well.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: But there is even more than I could name in this amount of time.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: So I urge everybody to check it out if they're interested.
16:18
SPEAKER_01: Owners too, especially owners.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: Is the is the job site uh violence thing, is that like co-workers or like people on the same job?
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Or is I would imagine that female technicians going into homes is a potential risk.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: It is.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: It is.
16:34
SPEAKER_01: And I I personally, I've talked about it on other podcasts.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: If you guys go and watch um the HVHX radio show at all, you'll you'll see some hints.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: I maybe deal with it with humor more than I should.
16:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, it is a risk.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: It's it's a um hard thing.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: And I I'll tell a little story just because it's the best way to describe it.
16:50
SPEAKER_01: I had, when I first started out, Val and I both worked for the same boss.
16:54
SPEAKER_01: And that boss was not ready to own a company by far, but he didn't know absolutely how to have a female tech.
17:00
SPEAKER_01: That was just beyond his, you know.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: But he was really great about supporting me.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: That he could do.
17:06
SPEAKER_01: He knew he wanted me there.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I once um, I was learning still.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: Val and I knocked on a door.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: We went in.
17:11
SPEAKER_01: The homeowner did not look pleased that I was there.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: I had to change his gas valve on his boiler.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, I was in training, so I had to physically do it.
17:18
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't something Val could just do and be done with it.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: I had to learn.
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and that that customer called my boss and said, I'm not paying you to emasculate me.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: And so that kind of the way he described that is really yeah, eye-opening.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't think of anybody feeling that way, but some men do feel that way.
17:36
SPEAKER_01: That it's, you know, they have something broken on their boiler, they don't know how to fix it.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: And then a woman comes and fixes it in their own home.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: So for us, it's like, yeah, you know, that's badass.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: But for this guy, he was angry and he refused to pay.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was it was awful.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: I had to actually vow to like drag me out of the house because the guy like didn't want to let me out of the basement.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: It was, it was terrifying.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, so that happens all the time.
17:57
SPEAKER_01: But also, coworkers is another really big risk.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Not, I mean, we have men and women in the coalition.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: We have 8,300 people that all live in harmony as different genders, and we would think everybody can, but that's not the case.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: There are a lot of um coworker violence problems.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Also, another big one that we see, probably the most common, honestly, is other trades.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: So you have like a job site with multiple trades, and one of the other trades sees a female tech, and that's where the violence comes in or the harassment or whatever it might be.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh, stalking is a big one.
18:28
SPEAKER_01: We get a lot of female techs that get stalked, um, especially by other trades.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: They're curious.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's how it starts out.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, I'm just gonna kind of watch and see what this girl's all about, and then it leads to something really unhealthy.
18:39
SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is scary.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: I was imagining like a sexual assault thing.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: Um happens a lot.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is that is awful.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: We we have had uh not enough.
18:51
SPEAKER_00: Like, because I feel like the thing with female technicians, like as an owner, is it feels like they would make so much fucking money.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: It it it it's just it's a totally yeah, it it's like they it is a it is likely a better salesperson.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: So like from my perspective, it's like, yeah, goddamn, the more the better.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: They will make more money.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: But it is it is hard to it is hard to like bring in.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: Your whole company has to change to bring in a female technician.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: No, not even not even that.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: It's just like it's hard to bring in just because there's not that many.
19:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yeah, and not even like um whether or not you can hire them.
19:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, I agree with you, but there are a lot of companies that will say like we're an equal opportunity employer, right?
19:35
SPEAKER_01: But they will never, you'll see 20 applications on their desk from females and they haven't even given them an interview.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: And that's because there's a lot that goes into it.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: And it's not, I mean, no female technician will tell you, like, oh, we want, you know, some on our like we don't we want to be treated like everybody else is treated.
19:50
SPEAKER_01: That's all we want.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: What we want is to be safe while doing that.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: And so it's really, really hard for a company, especially a large one, to be like, how do I keep her safe?
19:57
SPEAKER_01: How do I, you know, I can't just put and it's not fair to her if I just ride, you know, have her ride with a man all the time.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: That's not, you know, culpable to her career, right?
20:04
SPEAKER_01: So it's there's a lot that goes into hiring a female tech, and a lot of companies don't want to do it.
20:08
SPEAKER_01: So and I think that that's why there aren't many female techs.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a whole there's a whole trickle-down effect when it comes to that.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we've had a number over the years, uh, but they tend oh, I wonder if there's a trade that's more represented, like auto mechanics, I would assume, like probably has a lot of people.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: Welding, believe it or not, is like really big.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Because I think to me, like the the trades that have like HVAC is almost the perfect example.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: So like HVAC, I think it's easy for everyone to say, like, hey, there's a labor shortage in HVC.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure, totally.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: There's labor shortage in fucking everywhere.
20:40
SPEAKER_01: Everywhere.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh but like HVAC specifically to me is not the labor shortage because it has the most investment, more than almost any trade I can think of, of education in every freaking trade school from here to wherever.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Whereas like plumbing and electric plumbing electrical, that is like a there's no plumbing school outside of like a union.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh in the world, and I think they treat those two trades as if they're like roofing or construction or building trades.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: In a roofing or construction or building trade, you teach on the job.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: There's very little um intellectual work that has to be done.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: With HVAC, we know about that electrical work or intellectual work, and we have to address it.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: And we do.
21:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: In electrical and plumbing, they're in the middle.
21:24
SPEAKER_01: They're they're thrown to the wayside.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: People don't think about how intricate those two jobs are.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
21:28
SPEAKER_01: And they should have just as as much training as we have.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think HVAC is one of the things.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: But my point I have with welding is I think there's a lot of welding classes or programs out there.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: And for younger people, too.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: Because it it's sort of like HVAC welding auto mechanic.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sure there's construction.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Or um carpentry is a big one too that they do in like vocational schools for high school.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:52
SPEAKER_01: If you're targeting them and giving them the opportunity and representing them in high school, they're gonna join.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: Whereas once they get out, you know, they're looking at like something.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Plumbing?
22:02
SPEAKER_01: We don't talk about it enough.
22:03
SPEAKER_01: That's for sure.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: I will say there's a foundation.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, Brian Orr and Ty Brandeman and Skillcat, one of the other companies I work for, um, are all have all partnered to do Grit Foundation and it's targeting little children to bring them into trades.
22:16
SPEAKER_01: So I think that's kind of where we have to go next is not necessarily, you know, people who are already in the trades, but people who someday maybe.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Well what I've we've had this discussion on this uh show before.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: But what I think is kind of interesting about the I'm gonna use error quotes, labor labor shortage, yeah, is um from inside the trade, it doesn't feel like the headlines.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, because there's there's no shortage of amount of young people that want to be in the trades.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Um and like when I can when I compare this to like 10 years ago or 15 years ago, when I first got into the trades, it is different.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: We're like now we're like freaking drowning in Gen Z kids.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: That like I think our And they all have their EPAs.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: But our our average employee age is uh like Gen Z.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Like Gen Z is our most like it's like uh Gen Z is 49% of our business and millennials like 35, and then non from there, it's it's really pretty interesting.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: I have and I say this all the time, but I have um I have Gen Zers who are I even have like 18 and 19 year old kids that are part of our coalition.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: And these guys are working circles around people who have been here for 20 years because we have new technology now.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: The the equipment isn't the same.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: It's actually harder for the advanced techs like me to learn inverters or, you know, the things that are coming out now into this industry than it is for somebody who's grown up with YouTube on in their tablet, you know, their whole life.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: It's very easy for them to pick it up.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: They understand how transmission works, they understand controls very, very well.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: So I would say they're not only not only are they here, but they should be here.
23:55
SPEAKER_01: And we need to like really target them next because we could use their help for sure.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh what do you think techs are struggling most with today?
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Sounds like females, like job site safety is a really big one, which that makes total sense to me.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Maybe like access sounds like another uh, but would aside from that.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would say it's training, and I'll always say it's training.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: Um the if you look at one company and put it right next to another one next door, the training is incomparably different.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: You can't even compare them because this company may have really amazing training or really amazing training in one thing, and this company has no training whatsoever for their students, uh, for their employees.
24:33
SPEAKER_01: Um it's something that isn't uniform across the industry.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: So there is nobody telling owners that say that they have to invest in training.
24:43
SPEAKER_01: Nobody.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: And so just as we look at like a one-man show who maybe isn't licensed, doesn't have business insurance, right?
24:50
SPEAKER_01: We look at him as a chuck in a truck and he's just going in and messing things up and leaving, and the rest of us got to go clean it up and the customer has to pay twice, right?
24:57
SPEAKER_01: We need to look at um even large companies that don't offer technical training to their technicians the same way, in my opinion, because you can't sell a service and then not complete that service.
25:08
SPEAKER_01: So if not completing that service means taking your money and running on an install, it should mean the same if it's a service tech showing up and not being able to diagnose properly a fan motor, something that's typically easy in the industry, right?
25:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we're seeing that as we have growth, we have growing pains.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: And one of those growing pains is lack of access to training or lack of accountability to absorb that training.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: So um we have to find new ways.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: There aren't a lot of technical trainers in HVAC, plumbing, electrical, or even less.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: Um what I've done with HVHX Coalition, we're trying to figure out how to fix this.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: And we don't have the answers.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: We absolutely don't.
25:47
SPEAKER_01: What I will say is that we started the HVHX in-house training program.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm the only trainer right now on that program, but we also do our free Saturday class that anybody, any of our instructors can teach.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter if Saturday to Saturday, you might see 10 faces.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Um, but in our in-house training program, I take care of it myself because I build the curriculum from the ground up.
26:06
SPEAKER_01: I build it as an owner, as a tech, and as a coalition trainer.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: So 50 people may be in on, you know, I may have talked to 50 people on the tech support line about one topic.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: And now this company, you know, I had one call from one of my companies and they need help on this topic as well.
26:23
SPEAKER_01: Like the thermostat parameters pops out.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: I'll just use it as an example.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: When we change a piece of machinery, we aren't changing that, the technicians, the manufacturers changing that.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: And then they're expecting us to be able to figure out how to fix it and how to diagnose it.
26:38
SPEAKER_01: They don't give us the training to be able to do that.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: So we need people in the middle who say, okay, this is a Honeywell T10 that has, you know, 20 heats, 20 cools, and this is how you do it because Honeywell isn't going to do that.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: So that's where the gap is.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, but what we've done is we train the whole company with that, with our recurring training every week or every two weeks.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, they also get our 24-hour free tech support line.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: And then on top of that, they have um take-home like materials.
27:03
SPEAKER_01: So in their CRM, they might have field pulse and they might have a whole list of checklists or they might have a whole list of processes or flow charts.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Like we even have one for beginning to end the perfect service call, where it's like a whole class about how to run the perfect service call goes from talking to the customer to diagnosing the unit to cleaning up after yourself after.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: It's literally the perfect service call.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: And we give that to all of our companies.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And some of the things that they see on that list are just things they've never heard of, never thought about.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: And this is, you know, a multi-million dollar company.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, so one of them would be um, it sounds so silly, but even things like wearing booties in a house.
27:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have lots of data in in the coalition that shows the difference between whether somebody gets a sale with or without booties on.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: We have that data.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: We have compiled it.
27:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so that's on our list.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: It's just a stupid little thing that makes such a big difference.
27:53
SPEAKER_01: Another thing is talking to the customer, but also how you talk to the customer.
27:57
SPEAKER_01: So, like we can't, most people, lots of people join HVAC because they think they're antisocial, but that is not why you join HVAC.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to do that because we have to talk to the customer.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: We have to get every bit of symptomology.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: We have to know at that point where does that symptomology lead.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: So hearing somebody say it's making a funny noise and it hasn't been cooling right, and then walking to the unit isn't enough.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: That's bad practice.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: You have to get the details, you have to know what the sound is.
28:21
SPEAKER_01: You have to know what do you mean it hasn't been cooling right?
28:24
SPEAKER_01: What is not cooling right?
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Because she could mean that there's water dripping from her ceilings, or she could mean that, you know, it's one degree off on the thermostat when she sets it.
28:33
SPEAKER_01: So um, little things like that that people just have never had access to learning.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: Nobody's ever told them.
28:39
SPEAKER_01: And it's not because they didn't want to, it's because they didn't know.
28:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, their owners don't know, then their managers don't know, then their techs don't know, and then their customers don't know, which is even the worst part.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, a customer might think that they've got this perfect unit that they just spent$30,000 on and the duckwork's too small.
28:55
SPEAKER_01: And now we have, or the unit's too big, right?
28:57
SPEAKER_01: Put a five ton in everything.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Unit is, you know, the house is brand new, it's tight, it's got spray foam insulation and, you know, R19, that.
29:04
SPEAKER_01: And so you can't put a five-ton unit in that house anymore.
29:07
SPEAKER_01: Gotta be able to do things like run design.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a lot of companies.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: One of probably the biggest things that we address the most quickly when we start with a company is their process for sales, because sales training is ever prevalent uh present.
29:21
SPEAKER_01: You can get it wherever you want, and none of it's good for the most part.
29:24
SPEAKER_01: None of it's good.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: Um we start with when you should sell, and when you should sell is not until after you have sized, after you have, you know, inspected what's existing and all of these steps that come before making a sale.
29:37
SPEAKER_01: So that's a big one that they get.
29:39
SPEAKER_01: We actually, the company that we just started from New Jersey, uh, we started them three months ago, and they've already cut their callbacks by 52%.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's pretty massive.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's cool.
29:48
SPEAKER_01: How big is it?
29:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, their company is, I believe, 10 trucks, but not a huge company.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: We have a huge company in New York that's been with us for four years, and they've got multiple branches, and they're a fleet company, is how how we address them.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Um they're fully commercial.
30:03
SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
30:03
SPEAKER_01: Fleet?
30:03
SPEAKER_01: So a fleet company would be when you have more than a few trucks.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: That's how the coalition examples them anyway.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: So if you've got three trucks, you're a company.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: If you've got 10 trucks, you might be, or 20 trucks, you might be a fleet company.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: You're a fleet company, for instance.
30:17
SPEAKER_00: I think we have 200.
30:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're a beyond a fleet company.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, but so when you're dealing when I'm when you're teaching one of those companies versus teaching a company like mine, you cannot teach them the same way.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: So we've got to get into offering not only training, but custom training, not organic training that's just, you know, thrown out to everybody.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we've got to keep working with the techs as you go.
30:36
SPEAKER_01: So every member of our coalition, they don't even have to be one of our in-house training program.
30:41
SPEAKER_01: They can call our tech support line.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: I'll walk them through.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: They're not, I'm not saying, you know, here's the flow chart for the unit in front of me, give me this, this, and this, and oh, I can't help you.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm staying our our close rate for the tech support line over five years is a hundred percent.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: We've never lost a diagnosis, a diagnosis because we're better diagnosticians.
30:59
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we probably are because we do it all the time, but because we don't hang up the phone until we have an answer.
31:04
SPEAKER_01: So if there's something that we've gone through every single thing we can do and it's something weird that's manufacturer specific, we also have the manufacturer.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: So I can call York and say, hey, you know, I've gone through everything you can do as a technician.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk to them about the factory side?
31:18
SPEAKER_01: If York thinks it's a factory side thing, they're one of our sponsors, they'll work with that tech to get it replaced as quickly as possible.
31:25
SPEAKER_01: So it's bringing all the pieces of the community together needs to also happen.
31:29
SPEAKER_01: That's another part of that.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: Other than training.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: One of the best things that you can do as a home service operator is get in the right room with other great entrepreneurs.
31:38
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we are building with Catalyst.
31:41
SPEAKER_00: Over the past few years, we've hosted six awesome events where we bring home service entrepreneurs from all over the country to our shop in Akron, Ohio.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: We're taking everything that we've learned from those six events and we are putting it into something awesome.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: From May 3rd to the 5th, 100 plus home service entrepreneurs are coming to our shop in Akron, Ohio for three days where we're gonna be having tactical sessions, breakout conversations, and learning from some of the greatest operators in the industry.
32:06
SPEAKER_00: You're also just gonna be building relationships with people facing the exact same problems that you are every single day.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: This is going to be our strongest room of operators yet.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: Grab your seat for Catalyst below.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: I I think our industry is uh interesting.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, there's like we we were talking about this um maybe a couple weeks ago with um one of my co-hosts Jack.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: So we were talking about the development of an industry.
32:35
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm I'm I'm back, I'm I'm back like four minutes ago to like the booties concept.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think the booties are like the four savers, wherever you want to call them.
32:42
SPEAKER_00: It's like that's a funny one because it's like it's easy, it's straightforward.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I'm sitting here like how uh how d had they not uh done that because it feels like a 10, 15 year ago sort of solution.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:56
SPEAKER_01: Um and it's a not even yet solution.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: That's the that's that's that widespread just disconnect from company to company.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: We don't have a process here, you know.
33:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I well, I I think the thing that's interesting about our industry is uh, and this is where I was going with the like there's there's this stage of professionalization.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh it's like kind of a J curve.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: So J.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh we're like, hey, the beginning of professionalization of an industry is uh groups like yours that are training the industry how to run a better business, like um like the even floor savers companies, like that type of thing, or like how to make a sale.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: So like you see you start to see the emergence of uh uh training groups that teach you to run a better business.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And then you start seeing franchises, and then you and it's sort of like uh and then at the tail end of it, like the top of that J curve, you see companies going public, which like we're prepping for, right?
33:52
SPEAKER_00: With like Apex and other large consolidators.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: But like you start with like people get trained, they start building better businesses, more businesses get built around serving them, like the service titans of the world and the everything else.
34:05
SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like this technological adaptation.
34:08
SPEAKER_00: You start consolidating, and then there's a public company at the end.
34:11
SPEAKER_00: But what is really interesting about our industry specifically is along that J curve, which we're pretty far along, there is uh it's like always fresh supply.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm back on the booties thing because I just think it's almost the perfect example of like there is an endless amount of H VAC companies, yes, which I think is just fascinating.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh like I just think it's the craziest thing because I you know I don't know, I'll I'll randomly hear I I feel like everyone thinks they know who all of the hundred million dollar businesses are in uh America, and then I'll hear of a I heard of a random one last week, and they're in Ohio, and I'm like, I've never fucking heard of these guys.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh and like even just like that's sort of elusive and impossible to know, there's also an endless amount of people starting their companies and figuring out that booties are like the right decisions.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: I just think it's I just think it's fascinating.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh just like CRM is a great example of that as well.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Having a CRM software and not doing things on paper.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:23
SPEAKER_01: You would think if you use one, you're like, what do you mean there's people who don't?
35:26
SPEAKER_01: Like, what that's crazy.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: But really, the majority of companies don't even have a CRM and don't know why they need one.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: But as an example, I don't know how many customers uh Field Pulse has, but as an example, Service Titan, I think, has like 12 to 15,000 customers.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
35:39
SPEAKER_00: And if we think about 12 to 15,000, yeah, there's millions.
35:44
SPEAKER_00: Right.
35:45
SPEAKER_00: And like tens of millions of companies.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: You probably have that in in Akron, you know, 12,000.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: Like it's not a big number.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's uh it really, really, really, really interesting.
35:55
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think the like the always fresh supply of companies is just fascinating to me.
36:02
SPEAKER_00: And like where they are on their journey.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think you're providing a valuable thing.
36:06
SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think it's I think it's stages.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: I think like people are gonna come in and they're gonna like, hey, here's like this step, and then they utilize it, and then whatever the next step is.
36:15
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's the next star or the whatever.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, I think it's everything doesn't have to be implementation right now.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: We've got to move away from that and start good implementation.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: That's the way that I see it.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: And like you talk about that J curve, and I love that example because there's also all these little like snowflakes around it, right?
36:31
SPEAKER_01: So, like you have the the companies that are on that J curve somewhere, but you also have companies who haven't even found that J curve yet.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: They've not even out the door yet, you know?
36:39
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's a really good way of describing that is it's just a journey that we have got to get more people on at the very least.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: I think a lot I think about it a lot with uh barbershops.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think that like haircutting is kind of interesting because um it's not a direct I'm drawing a parallel here that I don't think like the average listener is gonna like follow me along on.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: But like it's an essential service.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a trade.
37:03
SPEAKER_00: Like I'm due for a haircut right now.
37:05
SPEAKER_00: Like yeah, it's a trade.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Um uh and I think that like we are so used to the consolidated end, which like there are public companies.
37:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh Regis, as an example, has 3,000 branches of fucking sports clips.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: Um uh so there's there's public examples of this.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: There's I don't know, 50 to 100 franchises.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: So like it's at the tail end of its J curve.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: Right.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: But what's really interesting is only five or 10% of like total like haircutting is done via at the end of that.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the curve.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, it's like how do you group all of these together and make them do the same thing?
37:44
SPEAKER_00: That's that's the struggle.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: That is the struggle for sure.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: That's funny.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: All right, technology.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: How are we thinking about technology inside the trades?
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Because as I think about like technical training, which is like I think what you're trying to bring here, there is technology out there that like I I don't want to name any names and give them like un un uh unpaid press, but like there is technology out there that help sort of help support that.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: So, like, how are you thinking about that or just any technology in the trades right now?
38:12
SPEAKER_01: So um, as an influencer, I'm partnered with tool companies that offer the tools we need now in a tech age, right?
38:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm also partnered with manufacturers that are manufacturing units that are the future and they're gonna be the future.
38:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, inverters is a great example, but again, we get these great units, these great resources that we can sell.
38:34
SPEAKER_01: And the customers love them and they work great and they do all the things that they're supposed to do.
38:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, but we don't get training.
38:40
SPEAKER_01: So when you have from the manufacturer to install.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: And I guess too, just systemically.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's like not just the manufacturer, the manufacturer's job is to manufacture.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: So like it's not really their fault.
38:51
SPEAKER_01: It's more just as an industry when something is manufactured and then that thing becomes um the new thing, like the thing everybody needs.
39:01
SPEAKER_00: Because I think inversion don't we have to do that by 2030 or something?
39:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh it doesn't have to be inverters, but it does have to be um A12 refrigerants.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, so it's a whole thing.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: So the AIMACT changed a lot when it comes to refrigerants.
39:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: But it doesn't specify the units.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: So um, but yeah, so A12s is a great example though.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: So switching our refrigerants.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: So, like when R22 was was the the most widespread refrigerant and we switched to 410A, there was no training that changed them from a low, you know, the technicians from a low pressure refrigerant to a high pressure refrigerant from analog gauges, because that's all you needed, beer can cold was really a thing.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: If an R22 unit has a cold suction line, it is cooling.
39:42
SPEAKER_01: That is really a thing.
39:43
SPEAKER_01: With 410A, not so much.
39:44
SPEAKER_01: With A2Ls, even less so.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: So we have to have tools that grow with our new refrigerants.
39:49
SPEAKER_01: At the same time we're coming out with new refrigerants, we're coming out with new units.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: And then all of this becomes mandatory.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: So now, like, there's not a manufacturer in the world that for residential is, you know, putting a bunch of money into a single stage compressor fed unit.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: It's all inverters.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: And it should be.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, when you have the opportunity to modulate to save light bills, and we've got an energy grid that's about to die, you know, we've got to do what we can to drop that amount of consumption and make it better for our customers.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: And that's what inverters do.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: The problem is if you're a technician and for 30 years you've been working on single stage on-off compressors with no modulation, and then you walk up to a mini split, you're gonna try to hook up your gauges.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: We can't even use gauges on mini splits because of that modulation.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Nobody told him that.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: He has no idea.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: What?
40:32
SPEAKER_01: This thing only has one port?
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Why does it only have one port?
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Why?
40:35
SPEAKER_01: Because it doesn't have a true liquid line, but he doesn't know that.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: He sees a tiny line and thinks it's liquid line.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: Takes his clamp, puts it on there.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: He's got 200 degree liquid line.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, something's crazy wrong.
40:44
SPEAKER_01: And now not only are we not diagnosing, but we're ruining, destroying the entire diagnostic process.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: Not because he's not a good technician, but because he was never taught about that new technology.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: So that is, we have to stall as an industry, essentially.
40:58
SPEAKER_01: We have to stall and teach what we have before coming out with the next thing.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: There are still people that are learning 410A refrigerant and 410A is phased out.
41:07
SPEAKER_01: Now we have new refrigerants that they absolutely don't understand.
41:10
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's um, if we want an HVAC labor shortage, this is a great way to get one.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: That's what it is.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: They say 165,000 seats are empty right now.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: That's because we're not training the newcomers that are here ready, knocking at our doors, ready to go.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: They have no idea what they're doing.
41:25
SPEAKER_01: And because of that, every company now wants an experienced technician.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: What I'm here to tell them is that no, you don't.
41:31
SPEAKER_01: You want a technician fresh faced, knows about technology, understands how to piece together those that critical thinking for technology, those are the techs you want to hire.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: You don't want to hire, you know, necessarily a 15-year tech who's never seen an inverter before.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Now you're trying to teach an old dog new tricks, but also um he's fighting back.
41:51
SPEAKER_00: So how I mean inverse technology is how many years into invert?
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, actually, in reality, 40.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: But in the US, in the residential world, four or five.
42:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then also when we think of inverters, we think of mini splits, but there's a whole bunch of other inverters and those.
42:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, Daikon's got their like uh side discharge things.
42:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Bosch has a great one.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: The Bosch IDS is like an awesome system, but it's an inverter and it it looks like a standard on off unit.
42:20
SPEAKER_01: So if you've got a conventional split, that maybe the tech doesn't even know it's an inverter, you know?
42:25
SPEAKER_01: So we're back to before the basics now.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: And these are guys who have learned the refrigeration cycle 30 years ago.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a really tough technology is our our um fault point right now.
42:36
SPEAKER_01: It's it's not that we don't need it or that we shouldn't have it.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: We absolutely should.
42:40
SPEAKER_01: We have to get people caught up to use it now.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: So, like the tool companies that I work with, if I go to one of my tool companies and I say, look, they're just not getting it, they don't understand the tools, they don't know how to use them, they'll fly anywhere in the world to teach for us, or they'll join a meeting on a Saturday on their day off to help us out.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: And that is that's what has to happen because the EPA is not gonna do it.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: The federal government is not gonna give us trainers out of nowhere, you know, sprinkle fairy dust trainers all over the world.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: It has to be techs, owners, and you have a podcast, people with a following have to start pushing this stuff out because the only way techs are gonna get it.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: And then we don't, I don't really like going behind people who don't understand inverters as a company who does, you know?
43:19
SPEAKER_01: And it knowing how to diagnose an inverter should not be considered high performance HVAC today.
43:24
SPEAKER_01: It just shouldn't.
43:25
SPEAKER_01: But in my market, it is.
43:27
SPEAKER_01: It absolutely is.
43:28
SPEAKER_01: You'll have guys that say, you know, you'll see one of those in a community post.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: Your company, high performance.
43:33
SPEAKER_01: No, it's Valeriani Air Conditioning.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: Got it.
43:35
SPEAKER_01: It's it's our last name.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
43:36
SPEAKER_01: Well, that was the last name.
43:38
SPEAKER_01: So we'll have guys who, you know, you'll see the community posts are that's great for marketing, right?
43:43
SPEAKER_01: The community um Facebook groups.
43:45
SPEAKER_01: So they'll go on and they'll be like, oh, I need a heat pump.
43:47
SPEAKER_01: And somebody's like, Oh, I can sell you a heat pump.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: But when they get there, they, you know, this company that they called for a quote gets there and they think a heat pump is a mini split.
43:56
SPEAKER_01: They don't realize there are other kinds of heat pumps.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: So now the customer's asking about.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Hooking to their ducks.
44:01
SPEAKER_01: And now this guy's telling them you can't.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: That's not what a heat pump is.
44:03
SPEAKER_01: It's not true.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: It's just what he thinks.
44:05
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of the gap.
44:07
SPEAKER_01: I love technology.
44:08
SPEAKER_01: I love where we're going.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: I love these units.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: I love them.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: I just at the U.S.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: heat pump summit last week I taught um air-to-water heat pumps.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: So replacing boilers with heat pumps.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: I love it, but we've got to be able to teach first.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: So I'm hoping we stall a little bit.
44:21
SPEAKER_00: I wonder how much of that um.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Well, I don't, I don't think the stall, I mean, hoping is good.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't think the stalling's gonna happen.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: We were reading uh what was it?
44:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, the Dyken's like five-year strategic plan is to basically be exclusively side discharged by I think 2030.
44:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: Super, super fast.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
44:43
SPEAKER_01: And most other companies have already done that other than in their commercial work.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: So like York just released re-released under Bosch um and they put out a bunch of inverters.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's and they're an old, you know, traditional standard company.
44:56
SPEAKER_01: They're not known for that.
44:57
SPEAKER_01: And even they're doing it.
44:59
SPEAKER_01: Everybody is going to be strictly inverters.
45:01
SPEAKER_01: I I would give it before 2030.
45:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: It's unfortunate.
45:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think the challenge, um I think the I aside from like the technology and the technical aspect of it, affordability is a real issue.
45:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
45:17
SPEAKER_00: Um like the inverter size side discharge are like three times the equipment cost of like CR14.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: By 10%.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: And I think um so I yeah, I mean, I'm I think it was the same issue we had with water heaters a while ago.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:33
SPEAKER_00: Where like, hey, they had to, you know, thicken the insulation walls.
45:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that made it like kind of hard.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I remember that.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: That that'll it'll be interesting to see.
45:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh it'll be interesting to see.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: Because when I saw that with Dykens like stri three year, five year, whatever the hell strategic plan, I was like, man, I don't that's gonna be hard.
45:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, right.
45:53
SPEAKER_01: It's hard for them though.
45:54
SPEAKER_01: It's hard for us.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: That's the point.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it'll will become hard for them because I think like right now, like you were in a two-year HVAC slump or whatever it is, and it's like, okay, like affordability is a real challenge, like more declines than ever.
46:10
SPEAKER_00: Like how you come up with the phone.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: How are you gonna pull off a triple?
46:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, how you gonna pull off a triple?
46:14
SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, good for you.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm I also wish I could triple.
46:17
unknown: Yeah.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, they will, and we won't.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, all right, you've got a field pulse shirt on.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Can you walk me through like Field Pulse a little bit?
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
46:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I started with Field Pulse.
46:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh one of the companies that I was running social media for in Pennsylvania, I didn't have a CRM and I was between CRMs.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: That's because I was mad at my previous CRM for doing really bad things.
46:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then a new CRM came to me and asked me to influence for them, and I said no.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: And they actually sent like an somebody to infiltrate my group as a female technician who actually worked for them to try to get me to change my mind.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: And they stayed for like three months before they told me they were actually a spy, which is a crazy story.
46:57
SPEAKER_01: But it led me to fieldful, so that's why I tell it.
47:00
SPEAKER_01: So this person that was being completely dishonest, and that counted, so the original company I was with, I couldn't work with them anymore.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And then this new company that tried to get me to work with them couldn't use them anymore.
47:11
SPEAKER_01: They had been deceitful and done really bad things.
47:14
SPEAKER_01: And then one of the companies that I was running social media for showed me his just his dashboard.
47:19
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I want that.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: He was like, it's Field Pulse.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, great.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: So I get with Field Pulse, I do my demo and I fall absolutely in love with it.
47:27
SPEAKER_01: It's so at the time, and this was we're talking, this is my, I just signed my second three-year contract with them as an influencer, and I was using it even before that.
47:34
SPEAKER_01: So, like four years probably, I've been using Field Pulse for my company.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, in the coalition, I think we have 36 other companies using it just under my link.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's not even ones that were already using it without us.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: So, I mean, we we love Field Pulse.
47:48
SPEAKER_01: It goes back to that same do you need a CRM or not?
47:51
SPEAKER_01: It's that basic right now in this industry.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: So when it comes to choosing, okay, which one?
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, I've heard of Service Titan.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: They've got commercials, they, you know, sponsor the championship and um they just bought conduit tech and all these this big public company, right?
48:07
SPEAKER_01: And then you have that's at the top of their J curve, if you will.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: And then you have really, really tiny ones that just kind of haven't mastered it yet.
48:14
SPEAKER_01: Field Pulse as a company is kind of right in the middle without being a conglomerate, but being big enough to handle any size company.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: So if one of my companies is a fleet company, you know, they can be on Field Pulse.
48:26
SPEAKER_01: Whereas also, if I've got a company with four people in it, they can also be on Field Pulse.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: So it's very dynamic that way.
48:32
SPEAKER_01: That's why I chose it for not only myself, because at first it was just for my company, and now it's the whole coalition.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: So there's not a single CRM talked about in with those 8,300 people other than Field Pulse.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: And everybody that owns a company in there that is big enough to have a CRM has Field Pulse.
48:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: I'm actually surprised it doesn't, um Field Pulse doesn't give like the get the like um recognition.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:56
SPEAKER_00: Because I, you know, we bought a business, we bought a few businesses on House Call Pro.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
48:59
SPEAKER_00: Which I've said this on the show before, but like I try not to call them out.
49:03
SPEAKER_00: I don't actually understand how you can run a business on House Call Pro.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: Like I legitimately don't get it.
49:09
SPEAKER_00: Um and I would I would love it if someone from House Call Pro would reach out and show me because it it is very confusing.
49:15
SPEAKER_00: Like you buy these, you buy this company and like you can't actually see anything.
49:19
SPEAKER_01: Like you can't um Yeah, so I wouldn't know because they were the company that sent a spy into my organization.
49:26
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I mean it's that's kind of how I felt about it too.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: I had done a demo, but I was kind of really confused by it.
49:31
SPEAKER_01: I was also coming.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: You can't see like technician performance, you can't see like I don't even think you can see like daily revenue or sales.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: It was very things like yeah, like your daily reporting.
49:41
SPEAKER_01: I don't know where to find that on it's on there.
49:43
SPEAKER_00: Like you can't get average ticket, like there's no way to get information, which I don't understand how anyone's it's because they hold it back.
49:50
SPEAKER_01: So like the the previous company I was with before um before that whole thing happened, they were the same way.
49:56
SPEAKER_01: And so when I left, they actually held all of my business information hostage.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: I never got my client list, I never got my price book.
50:02
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't we didn't have price books back then, but you had, you know, your data that you put in.
50:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, they they took all of it and they wouldn't give it to me.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: So when I left, I had to restart as as if my company was day one and I didn't have any of my customer info.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: I didn't have, I had to build it phone number by phone number.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it's hard when they don't offer it.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: And that's the other thing you have to ask yourself as the owner.
50:22
SPEAKER_01: Why aren't they giving, why aren't they offering me my own data?
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Why can't I see my own data?
50:26
SPEAKER_01: The reason is they don't want you taking your own data and then leaving.
50:29
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's rough.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really interesting.
50:31
SPEAKER_01: Whereas field pulse, I can see way more than I want to see every day.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:36
SPEAKER_01: I always say that it's too tech savvy for me.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: And so I don't use my field pulse the way every other company should, for sure.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, but even as somebody who doesn't, I'm able to easily use it.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't have, I don't know all the rules and I don't follow it to a T.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: I've got two trucks, you know.
50:51
SPEAKER_01: So, but I can use it just the same as my company with 50 trucks can use it.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: I think that's great.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: I think it's um, you know, they they've uh sponsored our show and they've come to some of our like bring five events.
51:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
51:03
SPEAKER_00: And it has been uh it has been really good.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: It's been cool.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: And I feel like it's a good at a certain point at the moment, there is no alternative at scale to Service Titan.
51:15
SPEAKER_00: I think that like all the way up to like 20, 30, 40 million, I think that like Field Pulse is great.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, yeah.
51:21
SPEAKER_01: And I don't, I think um, in the beginning of CRMs when they first broke the industry, you had to put a number to that.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: So like each each CRM had to say, this is what we're capable of with our CRM.
51:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
51:31
SPEAKER_01: Now I don't even think that's necessary.
51:33
SPEAKER_01: The way that it's like at least with Field Pulse, the way that Field Pulse operates, it could be scaled.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that's right in general.
51:39
SPEAKER_00: Because I think um as you pull what's becoming interesting is more and more people are um like pulling data out of their CRM and it's like enhancing it, but like enhancing it inside their own system.
51:56
SPEAKER_00: So like we've done that, but like most of my friends are working on a similar project.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: And it it almost becomes less relevant what you're using.
52:06
SPEAKER_00: The bigger you get.
52:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I actually um some somebody said this once, and they they uh if you if you pull enough information out and you create basically your own thing, then like whatever CRM you're using essentially kind of becomes just like a really big spreadsheet.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: It's exactly what it is, yeah.
52:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like that, I mean that's like not quite where we are yet, but like we most of our dashboarding reporting, everything is uh almost completely external to our CRM.
52:37
SPEAKER_00: And like the CRM is just like basically the thing that the techs use in the field.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: Right.
52:40
SPEAKER_01: You have like the dispatch side of that.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: That's that's the other thing about a CRM.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, technically like rip out.
52:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you could, right.
52:47
SPEAKER_01: Or you could build your own process for that easy enough.
52:49
SPEAKER_01: My thing is that I'm not that person.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
52:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of owners are not that person, or the team is not, doesn't work together well enough, processes aren't in place well enough, routines aren't in place well enough.
53:03
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of them use it as a giant whiteboard, right?
53:06
SPEAKER_01: It's like, my tech needs to know where he is on Tuesday.
53:10
SPEAKER_01: So that's what that's the basic.
53:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, I will say I got a tour of your place, though.
53:15
SPEAKER_01: And the the processes you have in place, if every company had those in place, I don't even know that we would need a CRM somewhere.
53:21
SPEAKER_00: Well, you think you need to be organized.
53:23
SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, that is my favorite.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: Can I tell you my favorite part?
53:26
SPEAKER_01: It's while we're here because they don't probably know.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: My favorite part is the screen out where the at the loading dock where they come and back up the trucks and they take their materials for the day.
53:38
SPEAKER_01: Just something so simple as that being ready for them.
53:41
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, each tech human error not being a possibility, right?
53:45
SPEAKER_01: The the warehouse has already made sure that all of their materials are there.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: They come up, they say, This is my pile.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: I take it.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: I know everything is there.
53:52
SPEAKER_01: It takes one thing off the tech's head, one thing off the owner's head.
53:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just the processes in place here are chefs kicked.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's sort of like it's inevitable.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:01
SPEAKER_00: Like you get a business big enough.
54:03
SPEAKER_00: This this is our uh primary branch.
54:06
SPEAKER_00: So we have uh six branches.
54:07
SPEAKER_00: There's our primary and largest branch with um maybe a hundred uh trucks.
54:13
SPEAKER_00: And um all that to say, like it has to work that way.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: So like it's so people are like, oh my gosh, I can't believe like it's this or it's like, well, like if it wasn't, then this would be like we wouldn't be here.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't even mean it.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:25
SPEAKER_00: So like on one hand, like it's uh it's it's an inevitability on that curve of like wherever you are in like your professionalization, like um, you know, you have to make your new floor.
54:36
SPEAKER_01: But that's what I'm saying.
54:37
SPEAKER_01: I think that that's it's as basic as that.
54:40
SPEAKER_01: It's as basic as it is inevitable to succeed, but it's not inevitable that they will have good processes in place to be a big company, right?
54:48
SPEAKER_01: So then you send up with big companies with horrible processes.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
54:52
SPEAKER_01: So that's funny.
54:53
SPEAKER_01: They don't last long, that's for sure.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: All right.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: If you could get every HVAC owner to change one thing about how they support and develop their techs, what would it be?
55:00
SPEAKER_01: The want to do so.
55:02
SPEAKER_01: That would that's what I would change.
55:03
SPEAKER_01: I would change um how owners look at their techs to begin with.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: I would start at the very beginning without I can't choose training without, you know, this, and I can't choose routines without this.
55:13
SPEAKER_01: So I would choose just the way that I want them.
55:15
SPEAKER_01: One thing Phillip said to me about your company, I asked him to give me the first- You really got like the royal tour.
55:20
SPEAKER_01: Oh, I did.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's funny.
55:22
SPEAKER_01: And right off the top of his head, I said, do not think about this question, just answer it right now, right here.
55:26
SPEAKER_01: What's the first word you think about when you think about Wilson's?
55:28
SPEAKER_01: And he said, family.
55:29
SPEAKER_01: And do you have 200 trucks?
55:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:31
SPEAKER_01: For a technician who's worked here as long as he has to feel that way with 200 trucks around him is pretty spectacular.
55:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's more of a it's culture, right?
55:41
SPEAKER_01: Though it's that's what I would change.
55:42
SPEAKER_01: I would change, I want them to be seen as people.
55:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think that people like you and I, who already treat people as people, don't seem to think about that as much because we just think that's a crazy thing to think about.
55:52
SPEAKER_01: But there are so many companies out there that I I mean, I had to drop one last year that I was training because it was so terrible.
55:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, people just treat techs like they're absolutely the bottom of the barrel sometimes.
56:02
SPEAKER_01: So that's where I'd start.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that makes a lot of sense.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for coming on today.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: If people want to learn more about you, where can they find you?
56:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so LinkedIn, HVHX Jennifer, same with Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, um, HVAC Know It All, the uh new HVAC only uh Facebook ish thing, HVAC Know It All app.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: I'm on there.
56:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then YouTube everywhere.
56:23
SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
56:24
SPEAKER_01: Everywhere.
56:24
SPEAKER_00: If you want to hear more about Field Pulse, make sure you check out the link in the description.