Latest / Philosophy and Faith / 09 - The Pilgrim's Progress - John Bunyan

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09 - The Pilgrim's Progress - John Bunyan · Philosophy and Faith

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Speaker 1: Part one, the fifth stage. Now, as Christian went on
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Speaker 1: his way, he came to a little ascent which was
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Speaker 1: cast up on purpose that pilgrims might see before them.
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Speaker 1: Up there. Therefore Christian went, and looking forward, he saw
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Speaker 1: Faithful before him upon his journey. Then said Christian aloud, Ho, Ho,
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Speaker 1: so ho, stay, and I will be your companion. At that,
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Speaker 1: Faithful looked behind him, to whom Christian cried again, stay
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Speaker 1: stay till I come up to you. But Faithful answered, no,
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Speaker 1: I am upon my life, and the avenger of blood
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Speaker 1: is behind me. At this Christian was somewhat moved, and,
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Speaker 1: putting to all his strength, he quickly got up with
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Speaker 1: Faithful and did also overrun him. So the last was first.
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Speaker 1: Then did Christian, vingloriously smile because he had gotten the
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Speaker 1: start of his brother, But not taking good heed to
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Speaker 1: his feet, he suddenly stumbled and fell, and could not
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Speaker 1: rise again until Faithful came up to help him. Then
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Speaker 1: I saw in my dream they went very lovingly on
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Speaker 1: together and had sweet discourse of all the things that
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Speaker 1: had happened to them in their pilgrimage. And thus Christian began, Christian,
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Speaker 1: my honored and well beloved brother, Faithful I am glad
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Speaker 1: that I have overtaken you, and that God has so
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Speaker 1: tempered our spirits that we can walk as companions in
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Speaker 1: this so pleasant a path. Faithful. I had thought, my
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Speaker 1: dear friend, to have had your company quite from our town,
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Speaker 1: But you did get the start of me. Wherefore I
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Speaker 1: was forced to come this much of the way alone. Christian,
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Speaker 1: How long did you stay in the city of Destruction
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Speaker 1: before you set out after me on your pilgrimage, faithful?
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Speaker 1: Till I could stay no longer? For there was a
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Speaker 1: great talk presently after you were gone out that our
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Speaker 1: city would, in a short time, with fire from heaven
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Speaker 1: be burnt down to the ground. Christian. What did your
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Speaker 1: neighbors talk so, Faithful? Yes, it was for a while
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Speaker 1: in everybody's mouth, Christian. What and did no more of them?
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Speaker 1: But you come out to escape the danger, Faithful? Though
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Speaker 1: there was, as I said, a great talk thereabout Yet
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Speaker 1: I do not think they did firmly believe it, For
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Speaker 1: in the heat of the discourse I heard some of
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Speaker 1: them deridingly speak of you and of your desperate journey,
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Speaker 1: for so they called this your pilgrimage. But I did believe,
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Speaker 1: and do still that the end of our city will
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Speaker 1: be with fire and brimstone from above, And therefore I
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Speaker 1: have made my escape, Christian. Did you hear no talk
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Speaker 1: of neighbor pliable faithful? Yes, Christian, I heard that he
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Speaker 1: followed you till he came to the slow of despond,
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Speaker 1: whereas some said he fell in. But he would not
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Speaker 1: be known to have so done. But I am sure
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Speaker 1: he will soundly bedabbled with that kind of dirt, Christian.
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Speaker 1: And what's it the neighbors to him? Faithful? He hath
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Speaker 1: since his going back, been had greatly in derision, and
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Speaker 1: that among all sorts of people, some do mock and
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Speaker 1: despise him, and scarce will any set him on his work.
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Speaker 1: He is now seven times worse than if he had
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Speaker 1: never gone out of the city, Christian. But why should
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Speaker 1: they be so set against him, since they also despised
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Speaker 1: the way that he forsook Faithful. Oh, they say hang him,
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Speaker 1: he is a turncoat. He was not true to his profession.
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Speaker 1: I think God has stirred up even his enemies to
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Speaker 1: hiss at him and make him a proverb, because he
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Speaker 1: hath forsaken the way Jeremiah twenty nine, eighteen and nineteen
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Speaker 1: Christian had you no talk with him before you came out, Faithful,
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Speaker 1: I met him once in the streets, but he leered
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Speaker 1: away on the other side, as one ashamed of what
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Speaker 1: he had done, So I spake not to him. Christian. Well,
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Speaker 1: at my first setting out, I had hopes of that man.
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Speaker 1: But now I fear he will perish in the overthrow
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Speaker 1: of the city, for it has happened to him according
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Speaker 1: to the true proverb, the dog is turned to his
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Speaker 1: vomit again, and the sow that was washed through her
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Speaker 1: wallering in the mire second Peter two twenty two. Faithful,
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Speaker 1: these are my fears of him too. But who can
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Speaker 1: hinder that which will be Christian? Well, neighbor, Faithful, said Christian,
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Speaker 1: let us leave him and talk of things that more
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Speaker 1: immediately concern ourselves. Tell me now what you have met
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Speaker 1: with in the ways you came, for I know you
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Speaker 1: have met with some things, or else it may be
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Speaker 1: writ for Faithful, I escaped the slow that I perceive
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Speaker 1: you fell into, and got up to the gate without
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Speaker 1: that danger. Only I met with one whose name was Wanton,
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Speaker 1: that had liked to have done me mischief. Christian, it
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Speaker 1: was well you escaped her net. Joseph was hard put
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Speaker 1: to it by her, and he escaped her as you did.
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Speaker 1: But it had like to have cost him his life
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Speaker 1: Genesis thirty nine eleven to thirteen. But what did she
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Speaker 1: do to you, Faithful? You cannot think but that you
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Speaker 1: know something. What a flattering tongue she had? She lay
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Speaker 1: at me hard to turn aside, with her promising me
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Speaker 1: all manner of content Christian. Nay, she'd not promise you
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Speaker 1: the content of a good conscience, Faithful, you know what
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Speaker 1: I mean, all carnal and fleshly content Christian. Thank God
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Speaker 1: that you escaped her. The board of the Lord shall
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Speaker 1: fall into her pit Proverbs twenty two fourteen. Nay, I
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Speaker 1: know not whether I did wholly escape her or no. Christian,
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Speaker 1: why I trow you did not consent to her desires? Faithful, No,
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Speaker 1: not to defile myself. For I remembered an old writing
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Speaker 1: that I had seen, which said her steps take hold
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Speaker 1: on hell Proverbs five five. So I shut mine eyes
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Speaker 1: because I would not be bewitched with her looks Job
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Speaker 1: thirty one one. Then she railed on me, and I
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Speaker 1: went my way. Christian, did you meet with no other
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Speaker 1: assault as you came, Faithful? When I came to the
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Speaker 1: foot of the hill called Difficulty, I met with a
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Speaker 1: very aged man who asked me what I was, and
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Speaker 1: with a bound I told him that I was a
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Speaker 1: pilgrim going to the celestial city. Then said the old man,
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Speaker 1: thou lookest like an honest fellow. What thou be content
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Speaker 1: to dwell with me for the wages that I shall
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Speaker 1: give thee that I asked his name and where he dwelt.
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Speaker 1: He said his name was Adam the First, and that
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Speaker 1: he dwelt in the town of Deceit Ephesians four twenty two.
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Speaker 1: I asked him, then, what was his work and what
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Speaker 1: the wages that he would give. He told me that
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Speaker 1: his work was many delights, and his wages that I
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Speaker 1: should be his heir. At last, I further asked him
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Speaker 1: what house he kept and what other servants he had.
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Speaker 1: So he told me that his house was maintained with
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Speaker 1: all the dainties of the world, and that his servants
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Speaker 1: were those of his own begetting. Then I asked how
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Speaker 1: many children he had. He said that he had but
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Speaker 1: three daughters. The lust of the flesh, the lust of
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Speaker 1: the eyes, and the pride of life first John two sixteen,
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Speaker 1: and that I should marry them if I would. Then
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Speaker 1: I asked how long time he would have me live
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Speaker 1: with him, and he told me as long as he
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Speaker 1: lived himself Christian. Well, and what conclusion came, the old
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Speaker 1: man and you two at last, faithful? Why at first
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Speaker 1: I found myself somewhat inclinable to go with the man,
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Speaker 1: for I thought he spake very fair. But looking in
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Speaker 1: his forehead as I talked with him, I saw there
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Speaker 1: written put off the old man with his deeds Christian.
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Speaker 1: And how then, faithful. Then it came burning hot into
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Speaker 1: my mind that whatever he said, and however he flattered,
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Speaker 1: when he got me home to his house, he would
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Speaker 1: sell me for a slave. So I bid him forbear
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Speaker 1: to talk, for I would not come near the door
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Speaker 1: of his house. Then he reviled me and told me
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Speaker 1: that he would send such a one after me that
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Speaker 1: should make my way bitter to my soul. So I
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Speaker 1: turned to go away from him. But just as I
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Speaker 1: turned myself to go, thence I felt him take hold
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Speaker 1: of my flesh and give me such a deadly twitched
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Speaker 1: back that I thought he had pulled part of me
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Speaker 1: after himself. This made me cry, O wretched man. Romans
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Speaker 1: seven twenty four. So I went on my way up
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Speaker 1: the hill. Now, when I had got above half way up,
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Speaker 1: I looked behind me and saw one coming after me,
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Speaker 1: swift as the wind. So he overtook me just about
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Speaker 1: the place where the settle stands. Christian, just there, said Christian.
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Speaker 1: Did I sit down to rest me? But being overcome
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Speaker 1: with sleep, I there lost this roll out of my bosom.
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Speaker 1: Faithful but good brother, hear me out. So soon as
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Speaker 1: the man overtook me, it was but a word and
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Speaker 1: a blow for down. He knocked me and laid me
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Speaker 1: for dead. But when I was a little come to
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Speaker 1: myself again, I asked him wherefore he served me? So
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Speaker 1: he said because of my secret inclining to Adam the first,
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Speaker 1: And with that he struck me another deadly blow on
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Speaker 1: the breast and beat me down backward. So I lay
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Speaker 1: at his foot as dead as before. So when I
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Speaker 1: came to myself again, I cried him mercy, But he said,
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Speaker 1: I know not how to show mercy, and with that
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Speaker 1: he knocked me down again. He had doubtless made an
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Speaker 1: end of me. But that one came by and bid
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Speaker 1: him forbear. Christian, who was that that bid him forbear? Faithful.
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Speaker 1: I did not know him at first, but as he
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Speaker 1: went by, I perceived the holes in his hands and
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Speaker 1: in his side. Then I concluded that he was our lord.
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Speaker 1: So I went up the hill. Christian. That man that
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Speaker 1: overtook you was Moses. He spareth none neither knoweth he
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Speaker 1: how to show mercy to those that transgressed the law, Faithful,
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Speaker 1: I know it very well. It was not the first
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Speaker 1: time that he has met with me. Was he that
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Speaker 1: came to me when I dealt securely at home? And
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Speaker 1: that told me he would burn my house over my
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Speaker 1: head if I stayed there, Christian. But did you not
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Speaker 1: see the house that stood there on the top of
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Speaker 1: the hill, on the side of which Moses met you, Faithful? Yes,
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Speaker 1: and the lions too before I came at it. But
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Speaker 1: for the lions, I think they were asleep. What was
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Speaker 1: about noon? And because I had so much of the
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Speaker 1: day before me, I passed by the porter and came
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Speaker 1: down the hill. Christian. He told me, indeed that he
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Speaker 1: saw you go by. But I wish you had called
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Speaker 1: at the house, for they would have showed you so
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Speaker 1: many rarities that you would scarce have forgot them to
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Speaker 1: the day of your death. But pray, tell me, did
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Speaker 1: you meet nobody in the valley of humility, Faithful? Yes,
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Speaker 1: I met with one discontent who would willingly have persuaded
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Speaker 1: me to go back again with him. His reason was
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Speaker 1: for that the valley was altogether without honor. He told
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Speaker 1: me moreover that to go there was the way to
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Speaker 1: disoblige all my friends, as pride arrogancy self conceit worldly
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Speaker 1: glory with others who he knew, as he said, would
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Speaker 1: be very much offended if I made such a fool
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Speaker 1: of myself as to wade through this valley. Christian, Well,
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Speaker 1: and how did you answer him, Faithful? I told him
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Speaker 1: that although all these that he named might claim a
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Speaker 1: kindred of me, and that rightly, for indeed they were
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Speaker 1: my relations according to the flesh, yet since I became
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Speaker 1: a pilgrim, they have discerned me, and I also have
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Speaker 1: rejected them, And therefore they were to me now no
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Speaker 1: more than if they had never been of my lineage.
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Speaker 1: I told him moreover that as to this valley, he
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Speaker 1: had quite misrepresented the thing, for before honor is humility,
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Speaker 1: and a haughty spirit before a fool. Therefore, said I
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Speaker 1: I had rather go through this valley to the honor
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Speaker 1: that was so accounted by the wisest, Then choose that
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Speaker 1: which he esteemed most worthy of our affections. Christian met
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Speaker 1: you in nothing else in that valley, Faithful, Yes, I
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Speaker 1: met with Shame. But of all the men that I
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Speaker 1: met with on my pilgrimage, he I think bears the
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Speaker 1: wrong name. The other would be said nay, after little argumentation,
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Speaker 1: and somewhat else, But this bold faced Shame would never
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Speaker 1: have done. Christian, Why what did he say to you, Faithful?
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Speaker 1: What why he objected against religion itself? He said it
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Speaker 1: was a pitiful, low sneaking business for a man to
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Speaker 1: mind religion. He said that a tender conscience was an
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Speaker 1: unmanly thing, and that for a man to watch over
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Speaker 1: his words and ways so as to tie up himself
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Speaker 1: from that hectoring liberty, that the brave spirits of the
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Speaker 1: times accustomed themselves unto, would make him the ridicule of
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Speaker 1: the times. He objected also that but few of the mighty,
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Speaker 1: rich or wise were ever of my opinion, nor any
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Speaker 1: of them neither before they were persuaded to be fools
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Speaker 1: and to be of a voluntary fondness to venture the
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Speaker 1: loss of all for nobody knows what. First Corinthians one
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Speaker 1: twenty six three eighteen Philippians three seven to nine, John
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Speaker 1: seven forty eight. He moreover objected the base and low
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Speaker 1: estate and condition of those that were chiefly the pilgrims
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Speaker 1: of the times in which they lived, also their ignorance
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Speaker 1: and want of understanding in all natural science. Yea, he
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Speaker 1: did hold me to it at that rate, also about
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Speaker 1: a great many more things than here I relate, as
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Speaker 1: that it was a shame to sit whining and mourning
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Speaker 1: under a sermon, and a shame to come sighing and
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Speaker 1: groaning home. That it was a shame to ask my
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Speaker 1: neighbor forgiveness for petty faults, or to make restitution where
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Speaker 1: I have taken from any He said also that religion
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Speaker 1: made a man grow strange to the great because of
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Speaker 1: a few vices, which he called by finer names, and
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Speaker 1: made him own and respect the base because of the
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Speaker 1: same religious fraternity. And is not this, said he a
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Speaker 1: shame Christian? And what did you say to him, faithful say,
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Speaker 1: I could not tell what to say. At first. Yea,
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Speaker 1: he put me so to it that my blood came
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Speaker 1: up in my face. Even this shame fetched it up,
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Speaker 1: and had almost beat me quite off. But at last
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Speaker 1: I began to consider that that which is highly esteemed
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Speaker 1: among men has had an abomination with God Luke sixteen fifteen.
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Speaker 1: And I thought again, this shame tells me what men are,
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Speaker 1: but he tells me nothing what God or the word
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Speaker 1: of God is. And I thought moreover that at the
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Speaker 1: day of doom, we shall not be doomed to death
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Speaker 1: or life according to the hectoring spirits of the world,
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Speaker 1: but according to the wisdom and law of the Highest.
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Speaker 1: Therefore thought I what God says is best is indeed best,
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Speaker 1: though all the men in the world are against it,
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Speaker 1: Seeing then that God prefers his religion, seeing God prefers
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Speaker 1: a tender conscience, seeing they that make themselves fools for
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Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Heaven are wisest, and that the poor
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Speaker 1: man that loveth Christ is richer than the greatest man
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Speaker 1: in the world that hates him. Shame depart, thou art
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Speaker 1: an enemy to my salvation? Shall I entertain thee against
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Speaker 1: my sovereign Lord? How then shall I look him in
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Speaker 1: the face at his coming Mark eight thirty eight. Should
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Speaker 1: I now be ashamed of his ways and servants? How
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Speaker 1: can I expect the blessing. But indeed this shame was
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Speaker 1: a bold villain. I could scarcely shake him out of
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Speaker 1: my company. Yea, he would be haunting of me and
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Speaker 1: continually whispering in my ear with some one or other
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Speaker 1: of the infirmities that tend religion. But at last I
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Speaker 1: told him that it was but in vain to attempt
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Speaker 1: Father in this business for those things that he disdained,
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Speaker 1: in those that I see most glory. And so at
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Speaker 1: last I got past this importunate one. And when I
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Speaker 1: had shaken him off, then I began to sing the
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Speaker 1: trials that those men do meet withal that are obedient
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Speaker 1: to the heavenly call, are manifold and suited to the flesh,
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Speaker 1: And come and come and come again afresh, that now
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Speaker 1: or sometime else we by them may be taken, overcome
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Speaker 1: and cast away. Oh, let the pilgrims. Let the pilgrims
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Speaker 1: then be vigilant and quit themselves like men. Christian. I
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Speaker 1: am glad, my brother, that thou didst withstand this villain
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Speaker 1: so bravely, For of alls, thou sayest I think he
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Speaker 1: is the wrong name, for he is so bold as
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Speaker 1: to follow us in the streets, and to attempt to
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Speaker 1: put us to shame before all men, that is, to
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Speaker 1: make us ashamed of that which is good. But if
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Speaker 1: he was not himself audacious, he would never attempt to
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Speaker 1: do as he does. But let us still resist him,
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Speaker 1: for notwithstanding all his bravadoes, he promoted the fool, and
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Speaker 1: none else. The wise shall inherit glory, said Solomon, But
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Speaker 1: shame shall be the promotion of fools Proverbs three thirty five. Faithful,
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Speaker 1: I think we must cry to him for help against
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Speaker 1: shame that would have us to be valiant for truth
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Speaker 1: upon the earth. Christian, you say, true, But did you
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Speaker 1: meet nobody else in that valley, Faithful, No, not I,
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Speaker 1: for I had sunshine all the rest of the way
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Speaker 1: through that and also through the valley of the Shadow
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Speaker 1: of Death Christian twas well. For you, I am sure
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Speaker 1: it fared far otherwise with me. I had for a
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Speaker 1: long as soon almost as I entered into that valley,
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Speaker 1: a dreadful combat with that foul fiend Apollyon Yeat. I
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Speaker 1: thought verily he would have killed me, especially when he
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Speaker 1: got me down and crushed me under him, as if
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Speaker 1: he would have crushed me to pieces. For as he
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Speaker 1: threw me. My sword fell out of my hand. Nay,
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Speaker 1: he told me he was sure of me. But I
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Speaker 1: cried to God, and he heard me and delivered me
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Speaker 1: out of all my troubles. Then I entered into the
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Speaker 1: valley of the Shadow of Death, and had no light.
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Speaker 1: For almost half the way through it. I thought I
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Speaker 1: should have been killed there over and over. But at
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Speaker 1: last daybreak and the sun rose, and I went through
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Speaker 1: that which was behind me with far more ease and quiet. Moreover,
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Speaker 1: I saw in my dream that as they went on, Faithful,
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Speaker 1: as he chanced to look on one side, saw a
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Speaker 1: man whose name was Talkative, walking at a distance beside them,
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Speaker 1: for in this place there was room enough for them
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Speaker 1: all to walk. He was a tall man, and something
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Speaker 1: more comely at a distance than at hand. To this man, Faithful,
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Speaker 1: address himself in this manner, faithful friend, whither away are
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Speaker 1: you going to the heavenly country? Talkative? I am going
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Speaker 1: to the same place, Faithful. That is well, then, I
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Speaker 1: hope we shall have your good company, Talkative, with a
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Speaker 1: very good will. Will I be your companion, Faithful? Come
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Speaker 1: on then, and let us go together, and let us
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Speaker 1: spend our time and discoursing of things that are profitable talkative,
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Speaker 1: to talk of things that are good to me is
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Speaker 1: very acceptable with you or with any other. And I
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Speaker 1: am glad that I have met with those that incline
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Speaker 1: to so good a work, for to speak the truth.
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Speaker 1: There are but few who care thus to spend their
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Speaker 1: time as they are in their travels, but choose much
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Speaker 1: rather to be speaking of things to no profit. And
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Speaker 1: this hath been a trouble to me, faithful, that is,
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Speaker 1: indeed a thing to be lamented from. What things so
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Speaker 1: worthy of the use of the tongue and mouth of
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Speaker 1: men on earth, as are the things of the God
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Speaker 1: of heaven. Talkative, I like you wonderful well, for your
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Speaker 1: saying is full of conviction. And I will add, what
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Speaker 1: thing is so pleasant? And what's so profitable as to
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Speaker 1: talk of the things of God? What things so pleasant?
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Speaker 1: That is, if a man hath any delights in things
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Speaker 1: that are wonderful, for instance, if a man doth delight
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Speaker 1: to talk of the history or the mystery of things,
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Speaker 1: or if a man doth love to talk of miracles,
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Speaker 1: wonders or signs, where shall he find things recorded so
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Speaker 1: delightful and so sweetly penned as in the holy scripture, faithful,
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Speaker 1: that is true. But to be profited by such things
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Speaker 1: in our talk should be our chief design, Talkative, That's
21:59
Speaker 1: it that I say, for to talk of such things
22:01
Speaker 1: as most profitable, For by so doing a man may
22:04
Speaker 1: get knowledge of many things, as of the vanity of
22:07
Speaker 1: earthly things and the benefit of things above. Thus, in general,
22:11
Speaker 1: but more particularly, by this, a man may learn the
22:15
Speaker 1: necessity of the new birth, the insufficiency of our works,
22:19
Speaker 1: the need of Christ's righteousness, etc. Besides, by this a
22:23
Speaker 1: man may learn what it is to repent, to believe,
22:26
Speaker 1: to pray, to suffer, all the like. By this also
22:30
Speaker 1: man may learn what are the great promises and consolations
22:33
Speaker 1: of the Gospel to his own comfort. Father. By this
22:37
Speaker 1: a man may learn to refute false opinions, to vindicate
22:40
Speaker 1: the truth, and also to instruct the ignorant faithful. All
22:47
Speaker 1: this is true, And glad am I to hear these
22:49
Speaker 1: things from you, Talkative, Alas the want of this is
22:54
Speaker 1: the cause that so few understand the need of faith
22:57
Speaker 1: and the necessity of a work of grace and their
22:59
Speaker 1: soul in order to return on life, but ignorantly live
23:03
Speaker 1: in the works of the law. By which a man
23:05
Speaker 1: can by no means obtain the Kingdom of Heaven, Faithful,
23:11
Speaker 1: But by your leave heavenly. Knowledge of these is the
23:13
Speaker 1: gift of God. No man attained it to them by
23:16
Speaker 1: human industry, or only by the talk of them talkative.
23:21
Speaker 1: All this I know very well, for a man can
23:24
Speaker 1: receive nothing except it be given him from Heaven. All
23:28
Speaker 1: is of grace, not of works. I could give you
23:30
Speaker 1: a hundred scriptures for the confirmation of this. Faithful. Well,
23:36
Speaker 1: then said Faithful, what is that one thing that we
23:39
Speaker 1: shall at this time found our discourse upon talkative? What
23:45
Speaker 1: you will, I will talk of things heavenly or things earthly,
23:49
Speaker 1: things moral, or things evangelical, or things sacred, or things profane,
23:53
Speaker 1: things past or things to come, things foreign, or things
23:56
Speaker 1: at home, things more essential, or things circumstance, provided that
24:01
Speaker 1: all be done to our prophet, Faithful. Now did Faithful
24:07
Speaker 1: begin to wonder, and, stepping to Christian, for he walked
24:11
Speaker 1: all this while by himself, he said to him, but softly,
24:14
Speaker 1: what a brave companion have we got? Surely this man
24:17
Speaker 1: will make a very excellent pilgrim Christian. At this Christian
24:22
Speaker 1: modestly smiled and said, this man with whom you are
24:26
Speaker 1: so taken, will beguile with this tongue of his. Twenty
24:29
Speaker 1: of them that know him not faithful? Do you know him, then, Christian?
24:37
Speaker 1: Know him, yes, better than he knows himself, Faithful, Pray,
24:43
Speaker 1: what is he? Christian? His name is Talkative. He dwelleth
24:48
Speaker 1: in our town. I wondered that you should be a
24:50
Speaker 1: stranger to him. Only I consider that our town is large, Faithful,
24:56
Speaker 1: Whose son is he? And whereabout doth he dwell? Christian?
25:02
Speaker 1: He is the son of one, say well, he dwelt
25:05
Speaker 1: in prating Roe, and he is known to all that
25:08
Speaker 1: are acquainted with him by the name of Talkative of
25:11
Speaker 1: prating Roe. And notwithstanding his fine tongue, he is but
25:15
Speaker 1: a sorry fellow. Faithful. Well, he seems to be a
25:21
Speaker 1: very pretty man Christian, that is to them that have
25:26
Speaker 1: not a thorough acquaintance with him, for he is best
25:29
Speaker 1: abroad near home. He is ugly enough. You're saying that
25:33
Speaker 1: he is a pretty man brings to my mind what
25:35
Speaker 1: I have observed in the work of a painter whose
25:38
Speaker 1: pictures show best at a distance, but very near more
25:41
Speaker 1: unpleasing Faithful, But I am ready to think ye do
25:47
Speaker 1: but jest because ye smiled Christian. God forbid that I
25:52
Speaker 1: should jest though I smiled in this matter, or that
25:56
Speaker 1: I should accuse any falsely. I will give you a
25:58
Speaker 1: further discovery of him. This man is for any company
26:02
Speaker 1: and for any talk. As he talketh now with you,
26:05
Speaker 1: so will he talk when he is on the ale
26:07
Speaker 1: bench and the mordron. He hath in his crown, the
26:10
Speaker 1: more of his things he hath in his mouth. Religion
26:14
Speaker 1: hath no place in his heart, or house or conversation,
26:17
Speaker 1: or he hath lithe in his tongue. And his religion
26:21
Speaker 1: is to make a noise therewith faithful, Say you, so,
26:27
Speaker 1: then am I in this man greatly deceived Christian deceived?
26:33
Speaker 1: You may be sure of it. Remember the proverb. They
26:37
Speaker 1: say and do not. But the Kingdom of God is
26:40
Speaker 1: not in word, but in power Matthew twenty three three
26:44
Speaker 1: First Corinthians four twenty. He talketh of prayer, of repentance,
26:49
Speaker 1: of faith, and of the new birth. But he knows
26:52
Speaker 1: but only to talk of them. I have been in
26:55
Speaker 1: his family, and have observed him both at home and abroad.
27:00
Speaker 1: I know what I say of him is the truth.
27:02
Speaker 1: His house is as empty of religion as the white
27:05
Speaker 1: of an egg is of savor. There is there neither
27:08
Speaker 1: prayer nor sign of repentance. For sin yea the brute
27:11
Speaker 1: and his kind serves God far better than he. He
27:15
Speaker 1: is the very stain, reproach and shame of religion to
27:18
Speaker 1: all that know him Romans two twenty four and twenty five.
27:23
Speaker 1: It can hardly have a good word in all that
27:25
Speaker 1: end of the town where he dwells. Through him, Thus
27:28
Speaker 1: say the common people that know him, a saint abroad
27:32
Speaker 1: and a devil at home. His poor family finds it so.
27:37
Speaker 1: He is such a churl, such a railer at and
27:39
Speaker 1: so unreasonable with his servants, that they neither know how
27:42
Speaker 1: to do for or speak to him. Men that have
27:45
Speaker 1: any dealings with him say, it is better to deal
27:48
Speaker 1: with a turk than with him. For fairy dealings they
27:50
Speaker 1: shall have at their hands. Mistalkative, if it be possible,
27:56
Speaker 1: will go beyond them, defraud, beguile, and overreach them. Besides,
28:01
Speaker 1: he brings up his sons to follow his steps, and
28:04
Speaker 1: whof he finds in any of them a foolish timorousness.
28:08
Speaker 1: For so he calls the first appearance of a tender conscience.
28:12
Speaker 1: He calls them fools and blockheads, and by no means
28:15
Speaker 1: will employ them in much or speak to their commendation
28:18
Speaker 1: before others. For my part, I am of opinion that
28:22
Speaker 1: he has, by his wicked life, caused many to stumble
28:25
Speaker 1: and fall, and will be, if God prevents not the
28:28
Speaker 1: ruin of many more faithful. Well, my brother, I am
28:35
Speaker 1: bound to believe you, not only because you say you
28:38
Speaker 1: know him, but also because, like a Christian, you make
28:42
Speaker 1: your reports of men. For I cannot think that you
28:45
Speaker 1: speak these things of ill will, but because it is
28:47
Speaker 1: even so as you say Christian. Had I known him
28:52
Speaker 1: no more than you, I might perhaps have thought of
28:56
Speaker 1: him as at the first you did day. Had I
29:00
Speaker 1: received this report at their hands only that are enemies
29:03
Speaker 1: to religion, I should have thought it had been a slander,
29:08
Speaker 1: a lot that often falls from bad men's mouths upon
29:10
Speaker 1: good men's names and professions. But all these things, yea,
29:15
Speaker 1: and a great many more as bad of my knowledge
29:19
Speaker 1: I can prove him guilty of. Besides, good men are
29:22
Speaker 1: ashamed of him. They can neither call him brother nor friend.
29:27
Speaker 1: The very naming of him among them makes them blush
29:29
Speaker 1: if they know him faithful. While I see that seeing
29:35
Speaker 1: and doing are two things and hereafter I shall better
29:38
Speaker 1: observe this distinction. Christian, they are two things, indeed, and
29:45
Speaker 1: are as diverse, as are the soul and the body.
29:48
Speaker 1: For as the body without the soul is but a
29:50
Speaker 1: dead carcass, so saying, if it be alone, is but
29:54
Speaker 1: a dead carcass. Also the soul of religion is the
29:58
Speaker 1: practical part religion and undefiled before God and the Father.
30:02
Speaker 1: Is this to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction,
30:06
Speaker 1: and to keep himself unspotted from the world James one,
30:11
Speaker 1: twenty seven. See also verses twenty two to twenty six.
30:16
Speaker 1: This talkative is not aware of He thinks that hearing
30:20
Speaker 1: and saying will make a good Christian, and thus he
30:24
Speaker 1: deceiveth his own soul. Hearing is but as the sowing
30:28
Speaker 1: of the seed, talking is not sufficient to prove that
30:31
Speaker 1: fruit is indeed in the heart and life. And let
30:35
Speaker 1: us assure ourselves that at the day of doom, men
30:38
Speaker 1: shall be judged according to their fruits Matthew thirteen, twenty three.
30:44
Speaker 1: It will not be said, then, did you believe? But
30:48
Speaker 1: were you doers or talkers? Only? And accordingly shall they
30:51
Speaker 1: be judged. The end of the world is compared to
30:55
Speaker 1: our harvest Matthew thirteen thirty. And you know, men at
31:00
Speaker 1: harvest regard nothing but fruit, not that anything can be
31:04
Speaker 1: accepted that is not of faith. But I speak this
31:07
Speaker 1: to show you how insignificant the profession of talkative will
31:11
Speaker 1: be at that day faithful. This brings to my mind
31:17
Speaker 1: that of Moses by which he describeth the beast that
31:20
Speaker 1: is clean Leviticus eleven, Deuteronomy fourteen. He is such an
31:25
Speaker 1: one that parteth the hoof and cheweth the cud, not
31:29
Speaker 1: that parteth the hoof only, or that cheweth the cud
31:32
Speaker 1: only the hare cheweth the cud. But yet is unclean,
31:36
Speaker 1: because he parteth not the hoof. And this truly resembleth talkative.
31:41
Speaker 1: He cheweth the cud, he seeketh knowledge, He cheweth upon
31:46
Speaker 1: the word, but he divideth not the hoof. He parteth
31:50
Speaker 1: not with the way of sinners, but as the hair,
31:53
Speaker 1: he retaineth the foot of the dog or bear. And
31:56
Speaker 1: therefore he is unclean. Christian, you have spoken for aught.
32:03
Speaker 1: I know the true gospel sense of these texts, and
32:06
Speaker 1: I will add another thing. Paul calleth some men yea,
32:11
Speaker 1: and those great talkers too, sounding brass and tinkling symbols,
32:15
Speaker 1: First Corinthians thirteen one and three. That is, he expounds
32:21
Speaker 1: them in another place, things without life giving sound First
32:26
Speaker 1: Corinthians fourteen seven. Things without life, that is, without the
32:32
Speaker 1: true faith and grace of the Gospel, and consequently things
32:37
Speaker 1: that shall never be placed in the kingdom of heaven.
32:39
Speaker 1: Among those that are the children of life, though they
32:43
Speaker 1: sound by their talk, be as if it were the
32:45
Speaker 1: tongue or voice of an angel. Faithful. Well, I was
32:51
Speaker 1: not so fond of his company at first that I
32:54
Speaker 1: am as sick of it. Now what shall we do
32:57
Speaker 1: to be rid of him? Christian? Take my advice and
33:02
Speaker 1: do as I bid you, and you shall find that
33:04
Speaker 1: he will soon be sick of your company too, except
33:07
Speaker 1: God shall touch his heart and turn it faithful. What
33:12
Speaker 1: would you have me to do, Christian? Why go to
33:17
Speaker 1: him and enter into some serious discourse about the power
33:21
Speaker 1: of religion, and ask him plainly when he is approved
33:24
Speaker 1: of it, For that he will whether this thing be
33:27
Speaker 1: set up in his heart, house or conversation. Faithful, then,
33:33
Speaker 1: Faithful step forward again and said, talkative? Come watch ear,
33:38
Speaker 1: how is it now? Talkative? Thank you? Well, I thought
33:43
Speaker 1: we should have had a great deal of talk by
33:45
Speaker 1: this time, Faithful, Well, if you will, we will fall
33:50
Speaker 1: to it now. And since you left it with me
33:53
Speaker 1: to state the question, let it be this, how doth
33:56
Speaker 1: the saving grace of God discover itself when it is
34:00
Speaker 1: in the heart of man? Talkative? I perceive then that
34:05
Speaker 1: our talk must be about the power of things. Well,
34:09
Speaker 1: it is a very good question, and I shall be
34:11
Speaker 1: willing to answer you, and take my answer in brief. Thus, First,
34:16
Speaker 1: where the grace of God is in the heart, it
34:19
Speaker 1: causeth there a great outcry against sin. Secondly, Faithful, nay, hold,
34:26
Speaker 1: let us consider of one at once. I think you
34:29
Speaker 1: should rather say it shows itself by inclining the soul
34:32
Speaker 1: to abhor it sin Talkative, Why what difference is there
34:38
Speaker 1: between crying out against and abhoring of sin? Faithful? Oh,
34:44
Speaker 1: a great deal. A man may cry out against sin
34:47
Speaker 1: of policy, but he cannot abhor it, but by virtue
34:50
Speaker 1: of a godly antipathy against it. I have heard many
34:54
Speaker 1: cry out against sin in the pulpit, who yet can
34:57
Speaker 1: abide it well enough? In the heart House and conversation
35:02
Speaker 1: Genesis thirty nine fifteen. Joseph's mistress cried out with a
35:07
Speaker 1: loud voice, as if she had been very holy, But
35:10
Speaker 1: she would willingly notwithstanding that have committed uncleanness with him.
35:16
Speaker 1: Some cry out against sin, even as the mother cries
35:19
Speaker 1: out against her child in her lap when she calleth
35:22
Speaker 1: it slut a naughty girl, and then false to hugging
35:26
Speaker 1: and kissing it. Talkative, you lie at the catch I perceive, faithful,
35:34
Speaker 1: No not I I am only for setting things right.
35:37
Speaker 1: But what is the second thing whereby you would prove
35:40
Speaker 1: a discovery of a work of grace in the heart? Talkative?
35:45
Speaker 1: Great knowledge of gospel mysteries, faithful, this sign should have
35:51
Speaker 1: been first, but first or last? It is also false.
35:56
Speaker 1: For knowledge, great knowledge may be obtained in the mistasies
36:00
Speaker 1: of the gospel, and yet no work of grace in
36:03
Speaker 1: the soul. Yea, if a man have all knowledge, he
36:06
Speaker 1: may yet be nothing, and so consequently be no child
36:10
Speaker 1: of God. One Corinthians thirteen two. When Christ said, do
36:16
Speaker 1: you know all these things? And the disciples answered yes,
36:20
Speaker 1: he added, blessed are ye if ye do them? He
36:24
Speaker 1: doth not lay the blessing in the knowing of them,
36:26
Speaker 1: but in the doing of them. For there is a
36:29
Speaker 1: knowledge that is not attended with doing. He that knoweth
36:33
Speaker 1: his master's will and doeth it. Not a man may
36:37
Speaker 1: know like an angel and yet be no Christian. Therefore
36:40
Speaker 1: your sign of it is not true. Indeed, to know
36:44
Speaker 1: is a thing that pleaseth talkers and boasters. But to
36:47
Speaker 1: do is that which pleaseth God. Not that the heart
36:52
Speaker 1: can be good without knowledge, for without that the heart
36:55
Speaker 1: is naught. There are therefore two sorts of knowledge, knowledge
37:00
Speaker 1: that resteth in the bare speculation of things, and knowledge
37:03
Speaker 1: that is accompanied with the grace of faith, and love
37:07
Speaker 1: which puts a man upon doing even the will of
37:09
Speaker 1: God from the heart. The first of these will serve
37:13
Speaker 1: the talker, but without the other, the true Christian is
37:16
Speaker 1: not content. Give me understanding, and I shall keep thy law. Yea,
37:21
Speaker 1: I shall observe it with my whole heart. Psalms one
37:25
Speaker 1: hundred and nineteen thirty four. Talkative, you lie at the
37:31
Speaker 1: catch again, this is not for edification. Faithful, well, if
37:37
Speaker 1: you please propound another sign, how this work of grace
37:40
Speaker 1: discovereth itself where it is talkative? Not I, for I
37:45
Speaker 1: see we shall not agree, faithful, Well, if you will not,
37:50
Speaker 1: will you give me leave to do it? Talkative you
37:54
Speaker 1: may use your liberty faithful a work of grace in
37:59
Speaker 1: the soul discovery itself, either to him that hathurt, or
38:03
Speaker 1: to standers by to him that hathat. Thus it gives
38:07
Speaker 1: him conviction of sin, especially the defilement of his nature,
38:11
Speaker 1: and the sin of unbelief, for the sake of which
38:14
Speaker 1: he is sure to demand if he findeth not mercy
38:17
Speaker 1: at God's hand by faith in Jesus Christ. This sight
38:22
Speaker 1: and sense of things worketh in him sorrow and shame
38:25
Speaker 1: for sin. Psalm thirty eight, eighteen, Jeremiah thirty one, nineteen,
38:31
Speaker 1: John sixteen eight, Romans seven twenty four, Mark sixteen sixteen,
38:38
Speaker 1: Galatians two sixteen, Revelations one six. He findeth moreover revealed
38:45
Speaker 1: in him the Savior of the world, and the absolute
38:48
Speaker 1: necessity of closing with him for life. At the which
38:52
Speaker 1: he findeth hungerings and thirstings after him, to which hungerings,
38:56
Speaker 1: et cetera. The promise is made according to the strength
39:01
Speaker 1: or weakness of his faith in his Savior. So is
39:04
Speaker 1: his joy and peace, so is his love to holiness.
39:09
Speaker 1: So are his desires to know Him more and also
39:12
Speaker 1: to serve him in this world. But though I say
39:16
Speaker 1: it discovereth itself thus unto him. Yet it is but
39:19
Speaker 1: seldom that he is able to conclude that this is
39:22
Speaker 1: a work of grace, because his corruptions now and his
39:26
Speaker 1: abused reason make his mind to misjudge in this matter. Therefore,
39:31
Speaker 1: in him that hath this work, there is required a
39:34
Speaker 1: very sound judgment before he can, with steadiness conclude that
39:39
Speaker 1: this is a work of grace. John sixteen nine, Galatians two,
39:44
Speaker 1: fifteen and sixteen, Acts four twelve, Matthew five six, Revelations
39:51
Speaker 1: twenty one six. To others. It is thus discovered one
39:56
Speaker 1: by an experimental confession of his faith in Christ, two
40:01
Speaker 1: by a life answerable to that confession, to it, a
40:05
Speaker 1: life of holiness, heart, holiness, family holiness, if he hath
40:09
Speaker 1: a family, and by conversation holiness in the world, which
40:13
Speaker 1: in the general teacheth him inwardly to abhor his sin
40:17
Speaker 1: and himself for that in secret, to suppress it in
40:20
Speaker 1: his family, and to promote holiness in the world, not
40:24
Speaker 1: by talk only as a hypocrite or talkative person may do,
40:28
Speaker 1: but by practical subjection in faith and love to the
40:31
Speaker 1: power of the word, Job forty two five and six,
40:36
Speaker 1: Psalm fifty twenty three, Ezekiel twenty forty three, Matthew five eight,
40:43
Speaker 1: John fourteen fifteen, Romans ten ten, Ezekiel thirty six, twenty five,
40:50
Speaker 1: Philippians one, twenty seven and three seventeen to twenty. And Now, sir,
40:57
Speaker 1: as to this brief description of the work of grace
41:00
Speaker 1: and also the discovery of it, if you have ought
41:03
Speaker 1: to object, object, If not, then give me leave to
41:07
Speaker 1: propound to you a second question. Talkative, Nay, my part
41:12
Speaker 1: is not now to object, but to hear. Let me
41:15
Speaker 1: therefore have your second question, faithful, it is this. Do
41:22
Speaker 1: you experience this first part of the description of it?
41:25
Speaker 1: And doth your life and conversation testify the same? Or
41:29
Speaker 1: standeth your religion in word or tongue and not in
41:32
Speaker 1: deed and truth. Pray if you incline to answer me
41:36
Speaker 1: in this, say no more than you know the God
41:39
Speaker 1: above will say amen to And also nothing but what
41:42
Speaker 1: your conscience can justify you in. For not he that
41:46
Speaker 1: commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commandeth besides
41:51
Speaker 1: to say I am thus. And thus when my conversation
41:54
Speaker 1: and all my neighbors tell me I lie is great wickedness,
42:00
Speaker 1: then talkative at first began to blush, but recovering himself,
42:04
Speaker 1: thus he replied, you come now to experience to conscience
42:09
Speaker 1: and to God, and to appeal to Him for justification
42:13
Speaker 1: of what is spoken. This kind of discourse I did
42:16
Speaker 1: not expect, nor am I disposed to give an answer
42:20
Speaker 1: to such questions, because I count not myself bound there too,
42:25
Speaker 1: unless you take upon you to be a catechiser. And
42:28
Speaker 1: though you should so, do yet I may refuse to
42:31
Speaker 1: make you my judge. But I pray, will you tell
42:34
Speaker 1: me why you ask me such questions? Faithful, because I
42:39
Speaker 1: saw you forward to talk, and because I knew not
42:42
Speaker 1: that you had aught else but notion. Besides, to tell
42:45
Speaker 1: you all the truth I have heard of you, That
42:47
Speaker 1: you are a man whose religion lies in talk, and
42:50
Speaker 1: that your conversation gives this your mouth profession, the lie
42:55
Speaker 1: They say you are a spot among Christians, and that
42:59
Speaker 1: religion fereth the worse for your ungodly conversation. That some
43:03
Speaker 1: have already stumbled at your wicked ways, and that more
43:06
Speaker 1: in danger of being destroyed thereby your religion and an
43:10
Speaker 1: alehouse and covetousness and uncleanness, and swearing and lying and
43:16
Speaker 1: vain company, keeping, etc. Will stand together. The proverb is
43:20
Speaker 1: true of you, which is said of a harlot, to
43:23
Speaker 1: wit that she is ashamed to all women. So are
43:27
Speaker 1: you ashamed to all professors? Talkative. Since you are so
43:36
Speaker 1: ready to take up reports and to judge so rashly
43:39
Speaker 1: as you do, I cannot but conclude you are some
43:43
Speaker 1: peevish or melancholy man, not fit to be discoursed with.
43:47
Speaker 1: And so I do. Then up came Christian and said
43:51
Speaker 1: to his brother, I told you how it would happen.
43:55
Speaker 1: Your words, and his lust could not agree. He had
43:58
Speaker 1: rather leave your company than reform his life. But he
44:02
Speaker 1: is gone, as I said, let him go. The loss
44:05
Speaker 1: is no man's but his own. He has saved us
44:09
Speaker 1: the trouble of going from him, for he continuing as
44:12
Speaker 1: I suppose he will do as he is, would have
44:15
Speaker 1: been but a block in our company. Besides, the apostle says,
44:19
Speaker 1: from such, withdraw thyself faithful. But I'm glad we had
44:25
Speaker 1: this little discourse with him. It may happened that he
44:28
Speaker 1: will think of it again. I have dealt plainly with him,
44:32
Speaker 1: and so I am clear of his blood. If he perisheth. Christian,
44:37
Speaker 1: you did well to talk so plainly to him as
44:39
Speaker 1: you did. There is but little of this faithful dealing
44:42
Speaker 1: with men nowadays, and that makes religion to stink so
44:46
Speaker 1: in the nostrils of many as it doth. For they
44:48
Speaker 1: are these talk to fools whose religion is only in word,
44:52
Speaker 1: and who are debauched and vain in their conversation, that,
44:56
Speaker 1: being so much admitted into the fellowship of the godly,
44:59
Speaker 1: do puzzle the world, blemish Christianity, and grieve the sincere.
45:05
Speaker 1: I wish that all men would deal with such as
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Speaker 1: you have done. Then should they either be made more
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Speaker 1: comfortable to religion, or the company of saints would be
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Speaker 1: too hot for them? Then did faith For say, how
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Speaker 1: talkative at first lifts up his plumes, how bravely doth
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Speaker 1: he speak, how he presumes to drive down all before him.
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Speaker 1: But so soon as Faithful talks of heart work, like
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Speaker 1: the moon that's passed the full into the wine, he goes,
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Speaker 1: and so will all but heed that heart work. Know
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Speaker 1: Thus they went on talking of what they had seen
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Speaker 1: by the way, and so made that way easy, which
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Speaker 1: would otherwise, no doubt have been tedious for them. For
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Speaker 1: now they went through a wilderness. End Part one, The
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Speaker 1: fifth stage,