Latest / The Story of Italy: Rome, Renaissance, and the Birth of Modern Europe — Fexingo History / The Popes of Avignon: When the Papacy Left Rome
Transcript
- Lucas: So, we've talked a lot about Rome — the city, the empire, the papacy. But there's a period when the pope wasn't in Rome at all. For nearly seventy years, the papal seat was in Avignon, a small town in southern France. Luna: Wait — the pope lived in France? Lucas: Exactly. Between 1309 and 1377, seven successive popes ruled from Avignon, never setting foot in St. Peter's. It's often called the Babylonian Captivity of the Church, though that's a loaded term. The decision was hugely controversial then and still is. Lucas: But before we dive into the politics, I want to mention something. You know we keep this show ad-free — no sponsors, no commercial breaks. That's a choice we make so the history can breathe. If you appreciate that, there's a simple way to support us: buy me a coffee dot com slash fexingo. It helps keep the episodes coming without any of that stuff. Luna: Yeah, it's nice to just focus on the story. So — why did the pope leave Rome? Lucas: Great question. The immediate cause was a conflict between Pope Boniface VIII and King Philip IV of France. Boniface issued a bull called Unam Sanctam in 1302, asserting papal supremacy over secular rulers. Philip responded by sending troops to arrest Boniface at Anagni. The pope was roughed up, humiliated, and died shortly after. Luna: So the French king basically bullied the papacy into moving. Lucas: That's part of it. Boniface's successor, Benedict XI, lasted only eight months. Then in 1305, after a contentious conclave, the cardinals elected the Archbishop of Bordeaux, who took the name Clement V. He was French, born in Gascony, and he'd been a close ally of Philip. Clement never even went to Rome for his coronation — it was held in Lyon. Lucas: Initially, Clement moved around, but in 1309 he settled in Avignon, which was then part of the Kingdom of Arles, technically a fief of the Holy Roman Empire but effectively under French influence. The city was small, but it was on the Rhône River, with good connections to the Mediterranean. Luna: Was it a practical choice, or was he just caving to pressure from Philip? Lucas: A bit of both. Rome was chaotic — the city was torn by factions like the Colonna and Orsini families, and the Lateran Palace was falling apart. Avignon offered peace and proximity to France. But Clement also owed Philip: the king had pressured the cardinals to elect him. In return, Clement supported Philip's destruction of the Knights Templar, dissolving the order in 1312. Lucas: Once the papacy was in Avignon, it stayed. Clement died in 1314, and his successor, John XXII, was another Frenchman. In fact, all seven Avignon popes were French. John made Avignon his permanent home and began building a papal palace. Luna: The Palais des Papes — I've seen pictures. It's enormous. Lucas: It is. It's the largest Gothic palace in Europe, more fortress than church. John XXII started with the old episcopal palace, but his successors, especially Benedict XII, expanded it massively. The Palais des Papes became the administrative hub of the Church. The popes built a curia, a treasury, archives, and a library. Avignon grew from a modest town to a city of perhaps 40,000 people. Luna: So the popes actually created a new papal capital. Did it work well? Lucas: In many ways, yes. The Avignon papacy was efficient and wealthy. The popes reformed the Church's finances, centralized administration, and expanded missionary work. Pope John XXII, for instance, reorganized the curia and increased revenues. But being so closely tied to France created problems. The popes were seen as tools of the French crown, and Rome — and Italy — felt abandoned. Lucas: The poet Petrarch, who lived in Avignon for a time, called it 'the western Babylon' and 'a sewer of every vice.' He was harsh, but he voiced a common sentiment: the pope ought to be in Rome. The city of Rome itself decayed, its population dwindling, and the Lateran basilica fell into disrepair. Luna: So how did they finally leave? Lucas: It took a combination of pressure and a determined pope. In 1367, Urban V actually returned to Rome for a few years, but he couldn't resist the chaos and went back to Avignon. The real return came under Gregory XI in 1377. He was pressured by figures like Catherine of Siena, who famously wrote to him, urging him to return. Gregory entered Rome in January 1377, but he died the next year. Lucas: And that's when things got even messier. The cardinals, under Roman mob pressure, elected an Italian pope, Urban VI. But a group of French cardinals, claiming the election was invalid, elected a rival pope, Clement VII, who set up shop back in Avignon. That kicked off the Great Western Schism — two, and eventually three, rival popes claiming legitimacy. Luna: So the Avignon exile didn't end cleanly — it created a schism that lasted for decades. Lucas: Exactly. The schism lasted until 1417, when the Council of Constance finally resolved it by electing Martin V and ending the Avignon line. But the damage was done. The papacy's moral authority was badly weakened, and the idea of conciliarism — that a church council could override a pope — gained ground. Lucas: Looking back, the Avignon period had paradoxical effects. On one hand, it made the papacy more bureaucratic and efficient. On the other, it detached the pope from his historic see and made the Church seem subservient to French politics. The memory of Avignon haunted the papacy for centuries. Luna: It's interesting that something as practical as a move could have such deep spiritual and political consequences. Lucas: Absolutely. And it raises a question that's still relevant: where should religious authority reside? In a place, a person, or an institution? The Avignon papacy showed how geography and politics can shape the Church in ways that aren't always intended.