Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Things That Make Christmas & The Holiday Season Hard After Divorce (& how to make it easier)

Transcript

Things That Make Christmas & The Holiday Season Hard After Divorce (& how to make it easier) · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation, and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: These are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce, or reorganising life afterwards.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warren Tree people of the Coolin Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: It is really hard, like really hard, to believe that we are in December.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: But here we are, it is December, and today's episode is going to be all about navigating the holiday season.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, arguably one of the most, or supposedly one of the most joyful times of the year, but what can also be one of the hardest if you are going through or healing from a relationship breakdown or a divorce.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be talking about the things that can make Christmas and the holiday season feel even more challenging after separation, and really importantly, what you can do to release some of that weight and reclaim a little bit of peace, joy, and light during this season.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So whether your separation or divorce is fresh and new, and this is the first holiday season you're navigating afterwards, or you're a little further along, this episode will absolutely help and support you.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope it will.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you know for you it's around facing the grief of everything that's changed, dealing with all the new ways of doing things, letting go of the old ways of life, living, being, um, handling your immediate family dynamics or extended family dynamics, or simply allowing yourself to honour your own needs.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is an exploration of how to let go of what can make this time harder than it actually needs to be.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the first thing that makes it harder than it needs to be is comparison, comparing, comparing your reality, your insides to other people's outsides.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So comparing your current reality with the external view or your belief about everyone else's seemingly perfect life.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, looking at happy families, looking at happy couples, especially during the holidays, makes you feel or can make you feel like you're the only one.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're the only one struggling, you're the only one doing it solo.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: But it's really important to remember that everyone's showing their best public selves, right?
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And many families really are simply holding it together for appearance, for their kids, whatever.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So what you see externally may not be the reality behind closed doors.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: And even if it is, even if it is happy families over there, um, and that doesn't reflect your current reality, it's an opportunity also to think, okay, well, what was my reality when I was still in that marriage, still in that relationship?
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: So switch your comparison view to what you have versus what what you have now versus what you had, what's coming for you versus what was.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Comparison isn't really supportive of a happy, healthy experience of the holidays.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: The second thing that makes it harder to navigate this season is loop thinking, get getting stuck in a loop thinking style.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: You go over and over and over things in your head, all the should have, could have, would have, or all of that questioning, doubt, and you get stuck in a loop cycle, constantly replaying the past, what you should have done differently to save your marriage or keep your family together, and all of that keeps you stuck, it keeps you in regret, it keeps you anchored in the past.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, it's natural to reflect, but getting stuck in that loop and and almost punishing yourself for the things you can't change is counterproductive and will drag you down in this season.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's helpful here to really go deep on self-compassion.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: You did what you could with what you knew, with the knowledge and resources you had at the time.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So find ways to kick yourself out of that loop thinking if you're in a spiral.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that makes the experience of the holiday season more challenging after separation, divorce is pushing through, like just pushing through, pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing through the pain, suppress suppressing your emotions, your grief, whatever you're feeling, just to keep going, pretending everything's okay, ignoring your own feelings, whatever they are, grief, sadness, anger, rage to just forge on and pretending like nothing has happened, pretending everything is fine or pushing down your big emotions only serves to delay your healing.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to come back to bite you.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Acknowledging your sadness, acknowledging your loss is an important part of the process.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, even in the holiday season where it's all supposed to be happy and joyful and happy families.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So allow yourself to feel what you need to feel this holiday season.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to put on a brave face for everyone or anyone else and just push through.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I want to talk about that makes dealing with the holiday season or experiencing the holiday season after separation, divorce more difficult than it perhaps needs to be is playing at happy families.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: Playing happy families before you're ready to do that.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Trying to make it all okay is actually harmful, destructive, hurtful, painful rather than healing.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's jumping over all the pain, all the hard stuff, all the hard stuff to get to this supposedly desirable end point, right?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: Not going through what you need to go through, not processing what you need to go through.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, trying to make a happy family with an ex that you're absolutely furious with or deeply betrayed and hurt by, trying to create that happy family dynamic with someone who has deeply hurt or betrayed you can actually lead to more pain.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: It can actually be harder.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not in a place where you can truly, honestly kind of coexist peacefully, forcing that dynamic can actually create more tension and hurt for everyone, including the children.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So set boundaries and don't feel pressured to pretend that everything's okay and you're alright to be in this happy family dynamic, whether that's with your ex, whether it's with his or her extended family, whatever it is, don't feel that you have to play happy families if you're not ready yet.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Feeling surrounded by people but also isolated makes Christmas and the holiday season more challenging.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Surrounding yourself with couples, families, and feeling like the odd one out can be really hard to experience or navigate or sit in.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: Being around couples or happy families can be especially painful during this holiday season.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So question it.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need to do this for myself?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something I really am comfortable and able and willing to do?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Putting yourself in situations where you feel like you don't belong or you are the odd one out can exacerbate that sense of aloneness and solitude and can feel really hard and hurtful.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So choose to spend time with people who understand that, who get it, who are in your inner circle and who can support you.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: It really is okay to say no to invitations to step into spaces that you know are going to make you feel worse.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to say yes to everything or be involved in every event or activity if it's hurting your heart.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Being surrounded by people, but also feeling isolated is hard, so you don't have to choose it.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I want to speak about is not listening.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes back a little bit to that, you know, feeling like you have to say yes.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: Not listening, ignoring your own voice, or being attuned instead to the voices of others' external voices, listening to everyone else instead of going quiet and listening to yourself.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of noise during the holidays.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's going to be well-meaning advice, there's going to be opinions, there's going to be expectations coming at you from other people.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: But what do you need?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of being swayed or influenced by what others think you should do or what others are saying or telling you, go within, go quiet, listen to your own intuition.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: Trust that you know what's best for you during this season and honour those feelings.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Don't be tempted to listen and be guided by external voices if what they're saying to you is not aligned with what you feel inside.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: It is easy to get pulled along with what everybody else is saying and doing and telling and inviting you to.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Something else that can be really hard and make Christmas and the holiday season really hard is more contact with your ex than you would like, particularly if you have children, and also noise from your ex or ex updates.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, perhaps it's allowing friends to share updates with you about your ex's life, what's happening.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, even when friends mean well, hearing about your ex's new life, especially if they've moved on, can poke into your wounds.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So politely let your friends know that you'd rather not hear updates, and that can also be social media.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: So be mindful about what you're allowing in from your ex, whether it's direct updates, whether it's um direct updates from your ex about what they're doing and where they're going and how they're spending their time, whether it's mentions from friends and family, or whether it's social media.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, create a boundary around that that protects your heart, that protects your emotional space.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: It also applies to you scrolling social media yourself, you know, almost like self-flagellation, looking for updates of your ex, what they're doing, who they're with, where they are, spending their time, and if they're happy.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's just reopening or digging into wounds that are still healing, perhaps still fresh, or reopening them and something that you don't really need and can make this season harder than it needs to be.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Solitude versus company.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's really important to tune into what you want, what you need, and that might change moment to moment, day to day, week to week, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: If you need solitude, choose solitude.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: If you need company, choose company.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it is really important to tune into what you need.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you may feel like self-isolating.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Some days you might need just to hunker down and be by yourself.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And also, there might be days when you need to spend time with others, when being in social company, friends, family is really important and can help and hold space for you.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: You might feel overwhelmed by all the social obligations when you really need quiet alone time.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: So pay attention to what's coming up and what feels right for you, and don't be afraid to change your plans even last minute to honour those needs.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Lean into being flaky, lean into choosing in the moment because what you need today could well be very different to what you need tomorrow.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Taking on other people's opinions is also something that can really impact your capacity to enjoy or even just get through this holiday season.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, judgment, shame, blame, opening yourself up to the opinions of others because everyone's going to have one.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Others whose opinion particularly you don't value or trust, even someone just asking pointed or intrusive questions, or even just questions full stop, um, them just being curious about your life and what's going on, that can feel really hard and can tip you into all the things shame, doubt, self-judgment, sadness, anger, whatever it is, or someone sharing their own or you know, those dramatic stories about someone else's divorce, what it cost in all the ways, how hard and how horrible it was.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not helpful.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's not helpful generally, but particularly at this season when everything's tender and everything feels hard and everything is challenging, it's really not helpful for you to have those external opinions and judgments and shame thrown at you.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, certain family members or even friends may inadvertently make insensitive comments about your divorce or, as I said before, ask questions that just niggle at you, that just poke at your pain.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you actually don't have to stand there, you don't have to endure that.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to distance yourself from people who are making you feel worse about what's going on for you.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's all it's okay to prioritize being around those who lift you up and hold space for you in whatever emotional state you're in.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't owe anyone explanations or justifications for what's happening in your life, for your choices, your decisions.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so if certain people make you feel worse, it is perfectly healthy to limit your time around them, to avoid them.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Have your go-to canned responses ready for these moments because almost always somebody will ask you something that you don't want to answer, or they will make a statement or make a comment or offer a judgment or an opinion that you don't want to hear.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So have a couple of go-to phrases ready to trot out.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your interest.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not willing to talk about that right now, or I'd rather not talk about this, let's talk about X.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: So taking on or taking on the energy of other people's opinions is not helpful at this point in your journey.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Christmas is all about traditions, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Holiday season, it's all about traditions, and holding on to old traditions or trying to recreate traditions that no longer fit can make this season feel harder than it perhaps needs to be.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is really tempting to really hold on tight to the old traditions that were part of your family life before separation, before divorce, but trying to force them to work in your new reality can be or feel hard and heartbreaking.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: So this is a chance for you to let go of what isn't serving you in this particular season, what doesn't serve you, maybe create new traditions that reflect where you are now.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's about being open, being open to the possibility that this change could actually bring something new, something different.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So really holding tightly to the way things used to be and the way things used to be done and the way you all used to do this season, this holiday season, can be hard and it can make things harder than they need to be.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So embrace letting go a little, embrace the opportunity for things to look and feel different.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And yep, that can feel uncomfortable in itself, but it can also be liberating.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Clinging to your pain.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this really sounds counterintuitive, right?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to feel hurt, we don't want to feel pain, but oftentimes as humans, we hang on to it, we cling to the pain, replaying all the painful memories, the hurtful scenarios, and it keeps us stuck in our pain, unable to see or feel or or experience anything but the hard, messy, painful parts.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Hanging on to the past hurt meaning means you can't be in the present, in the now.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: You can't feel or see any good or any pleasure in the now, and you definitely can't move forward.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: So replaying the pain, the betrayal, the anger, whatever it is toward your ex about the relationship breakdown, about the divorce during the holidays can intensify because, as I said before, there's potentially, if you've got kids, particularly, there's more interaction, more engagement.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: But holding on to these feelings, holding on to the anger, the bitterness, the resentment, whatever it is for you, holding on to these feelings only makes it harder to be in this season.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, you can't be fully present, you can't be in the moment, you can't enjoy the small joys and the small happinesses that do come up, the good things that are a part of this season, if you're hanging on to or deeply sitting in only your pain.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying push it down, I'm not saying ignore it, I'm not saying dismiss it, but try and hold both realities, right?
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's important to hold to honour your emotions.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's equally important to allow or begin the process of letting go of that a little bit because each small step helps you lighten, lighten the load, right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, Rio Richards, who I interviewed on the podcast recently about grief, she speaks about having holding your emotions in two hands.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one holds the pain, the grief, the sadness, the heaviness, and in the other hand you hold hope, joy, happiness, even if there's only a little tiny bit of that.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then you take both of those hands and place them over your heart and allow both of those realities or both of those states to be part of your reality.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So holding on to the pain, yes, but also holding on to happiness, joy, peace, hope, whatever it is for you.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: The next thing I really want to speak about is allowing someone else to dictate how you feel.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Letting someone else dictate how you feel.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And by this I really mean letting your ex define your emotional state, define your happiness.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Letting your ex intrude so completely that your emotional state is impacted, dictated by thoughts of him or her.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So here's an opportunity, an invitation.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to be too stubborn, too resolute, too determined to allow your ex to infiltrate or control how you feel, to control or impact or dictate your happiness.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let them.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that sounds really silly and really simple, but it is an active choice.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: Focus on yourself and your present reality and be just too stubborn to allow them to infiltrate and impact and take away your happiness in this season.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Also, as part of that, really go deep on investing in your own well-being and you know when better than during the holidays.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Choose moments of happiness, be too stubborn to allow your ex to control your happiness.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, maybe they ended the marriage, the relationship, but that doesn't get that doesn't mean they get to continue to influence every minute of your day, of your life, of your future, of this holiday season particularly.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: You get to choose.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So be stubborn and claim it, reclaim it for yourself.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: When you allow the way you feel about your ex to dictate how you feel about yourself, about your life, you give away your personal power and you limit your capacity to find or to feel all the positives of this season or of life in general, right?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: Joy, peace, happiness, contentment, whatever it is.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's really tempting to tell yourself a story, to anchor into your happiness hinging on what they're doing, their actions, their opinions, especially during the holidays when emotions are already high, when things are already tender, right?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: This keeps you.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Stuck.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So instead, just I shouldn't say just instead make a conscious choice and decision that they don't get to impact this.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: They don't get to take away your joy.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: They don't get to influence or dictate how you feel in this season, in this holiday season.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So hold space for happiness and peace as well as the sadness and the grief and the anger and whatever it is.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's the two hands concept, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Rio's two hands concept.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: But really importantly, you actually get to choose rather than just get swept along by whatever is coming at you from your ex or the story that you're telling yourself about your separation divorce.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Actively choose and choose you.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the final thing that makes Christmas after separation divorce hard or harder than it needs to be is putting yourself lucky last on the Christmas list.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: You put yourself way down the list, everything and everyone else being higher priority.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, I'll acknowledge it's a busy season with everyone wanting to catch up, all the things you've got to get done for work, for family, all the kids' activities, it's really easy to push ourselves down that list.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: But that can be an act of self-sabotage, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: It can be a way that we just sabotage ourselves and our own happiness by kind of telling ourselves that it's okay, everything else is more important than I am, and that can be really harmful and impactful on your well-being and your capacity and your heart and your healing.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to focus on making the holidays perfect and lovely and joyful for everyone else, your children, your family, even your friends, but you need to matter too.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: You need to take care of yourself too.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be higher up the list and sometimes first on the list so that you can do all the things for everybody else.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So set and hold healthy boundaries about your time, your energy, your effort, your engagement.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: Ask for help if you need it and be open to receiving it when people offer.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: Give yourself full permission to be number one on your own Christmas list to prioritize you, your healing, your well-being, your heart, however that looks.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's not selfish, it's necessary.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's necessary for your healing journey.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's also necessary just to get through this hard holiday season.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: All of these things make Christmas and the holiday season difficult, more challenging, hard, and perhaps harder than it needs to be.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: Bringing conscious awareness to them and how they're playing out for you, how you are allowing them to impact you, how you are telling yourself stories about what it means can actually help you release from these things.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I would invite you if these are if these are real for you, if these are things that you are looking at and challenging, challenged by, um, book a clarity consult with me.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: I still have a few spaces prior to Christmas to support you.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a link in the show notes to click and then simply hit the Get Support Now button to book your session directly in my calendar.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's two 60-minute Zoom sessions, two weeks apart, with full messaging support between sessions, which will hold space for you and support you in the lead up to Christmas and across this holiday period.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: So as we wrap up today's episode, I hope you've found a few takeaways to help ease the pressure that comes with the holiday season after divorce.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to feel the weight of grief and change and to feel sad and to feel the loss.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's also okay to hold space for joy and happiness and love and positivity at the same time.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's also okay, in fact, necessary, to really make your well-being a priority, to give yourself permission to let go of all the things, all the things that do not serve you this Christmas, this holiday season.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: And while Christmas and the holiday season for you and your family may look really different this year than it has ever before, there is still space for new traditions, for reflection, for moments of joy, for light and love and laughter.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: So be kind to yourself as you navigate through.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: You really are not alone, even if it feels like it.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Surround yourself with people who hold you, care for you, tend to you, and allow you to be all of what you are, whatever that is, the messy parts, the joyful parts, the sad parts.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Please share this with someone who you know would be supported to listen to it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, take deep and good care of yourself as you move towards Christmas through the holiday season.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for being here.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce coach and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Until then.