Latest / Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast / World Series Tigers Ties

Transcript

World Series Tigers Ties · Tiger Territory: A Detroit Tigers Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: And welcome to another episode of Tiger Territory, part of
0:08
Speaker 1: the Foul Territory Network, a Detroit Tigers podcast. I'm Kieren
0:14
Speaker 1: Steckley with me as always as a man who has
0:16
Speaker 1: a kid. I thought the Tiger's mascot was named Tony.
0:20
Speaker 1: He is Cody Stavenhagen. How you doing.
0:24
Speaker 2: I thought you said I had a kid. For a second,
0:26
Speaker 2: I was like, uh, not that I know of. Yeah,
0:31
Speaker 2: that's all I got on that. When Tony to tell
0:33
Speaker 2: you're really one of the all time great mascots, I.
0:35
Speaker 1: Will say, for sure said the test of time, and
0:37
Speaker 1: I can speak personally. Being tigers and lions and even
0:42
Speaker 1: pistons with Hooper, red Wings, with the octopuses, It's been
0:47
Speaker 1: an easy cell for my animal loving girlfriend now wife
0:51
Speaker 1: to be rooting for these teams. She loves Paw, she
0:54
Speaker 1: loves Rory, she loves Hooper. I think I got a
0:57
Speaker 1: pillow pet of the red wings. That was one of
1:00
Speaker 1: the first gifts I got her when we first started dating.
1:02
Speaker 1: So shout out to Detroit teams for making it really
1:05
Speaker 1: easy on me. Moving on to more current topics, we're
1:11
Speaker 1: recording this a couple of days before the world series
1:14
Speaker 1: is to begin Cody, and you know, with the Tigers
1:18
Speaker 1: making a little bit of a postseason run and our
1:21
Speaker 1: focus being pretty singular, we haven't really talked a lot
1:25
Speaker 1: about the postseason at large. First of all, why don't
1:29
Speaker 1: you just kind of give your opinion, because obviously you
1:31
Speaker 1: were at several games, all of them involving the Tigers,
1:34
Speaker 1: and then you know, watching these you know, great moments
1:37
Speaker 1: on TV. I think it's been a sellar postseason. I
1:42
Speaker 1: I am afraid I might be biased because the Tigers
1:44
Speaker 1: had nice had several nice moments there. But you're the
1:46
Speaker 1: impartial observer here. What have you made about the postseason
1:51
Speaker 1: so far? Just in general? I think it's been good
1:53
Speaker 1: for the game.
1:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think it's been one of the better
1:57
Speaker 2: postseasons in recent memory in terms of just even you know,
2:00
Speaker 2: the Wildcard series, the Division series, the NLCS and and
2:04
Speaker 2: ALCS had some really good matchups. I think, you know,
2:07
Speaker 2: some of the final games they ended up being a
2:10
Speaker 2: little bit anti climactic, but still really good baseball. You know.
2:14
Speaker 2: I think kind of the dividing topic in the sport
2:17
Speaker 2: is like is Yankees Dodgers good for the game or
2:20
Speaker 2: is it not good for the game? Personally, I mean,
2:24
Speaker 2: I would have loved to see you know, the vaunted
2:26
Speaker 2: like Guardians Brewers or like, you know, just some random
2:29
Speaker 2: World Series. I'd be all for that. But in terms
2:33
Speaker 2: of like the platform for the sport, Look, this is
2:36
Speaker 2: what MLB wants, and I don't think you can really
2:39
Speaker 2: argue with that. They have probably their two biggest stars
2:41
Speaker 2: in Shoeyotani and Aaron Judge. In the postseason. They have
2:44
Speaker 2: their two biggest markets and two longtime major brands playing
2:49
Speaker 2: each other in the World Series for the first time
2:50
Speaker 2: since nineteen eighty one. As a fan of the sport,
2:53
Speaker 2: I'm actually all for it. I'm excited to see who
2:57
Speaker 2: comes away with the crown here in the World Series.
2:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and then there's you know, the Won
3:01
Speaker 1: Soto element, there's the Mookie Betts element. You know, Dave
3:05
Speaker 1: Roberts is no stranger to postseason fame, if you would.
3:10
Speaker 1: In twenty year anniversary of his uh I don't know
3:13
Speaker 1: what day it was, but that run, the twenty year
3:15
Speaker 1: anniversary of his famous famous stolen base that capped off
3:20
Speaker 1: they or started, I should say, the greatest comeback in
3:23
Speaker 1: arguably team sports history. Uh So that's that's all. Great,
3:27
Speaker 1: and you know, we I feel old watching the coverage
3:30
Speaker 1: with Poppy and Jeter and a Rod kind of leading it.
3:34
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, man, I remember going to the
3:35
Speaker 1: games watching those guys. I agree, it's been it's been
3:39
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I think this is you know, baseball.
3:43
Speaker 1: They're supposed to be impartial, but this is what the
3:45
Speaker 1: TV networks wanted there. They don't have to be impartial.
3:47
Speaker 1: This is exactly what what they were what they were
3:50
Speaker 1: aiming for, and it is interesting as I reflect on it,
3:57
Speaker 1: kind of here in the moment. You had a lot
4:00
Speaker 1: of fun stories with young teams. Obviously the Tigers one
4:04
Speaker 1: of them, but Kansas City fits that profile, Baltimore fits
4:06
Speaker 1: that profile. Uh that they kind of reach this level
4:11
Speaker 1: and then like kind of the adults in the room
4:14
Speaker 1: took over, you know. And and by I'm not even
4:18
Speaker 1: saying that's a bad thing, that's actually a good thing
4:20
Speaker 1: because you you want to see the fans want to
4:23
Speaker 1: see the journeys, you know what I mean. And you know,
4:25
Speaker 1: you get here, then you get here, then you get here.
4:28
Speaker 1: Uh So I think that's also good overall for the
4:31
Speaker 1: for the game as well. You end up with the
4:33
Speaker 1: matchups that you want if you're the TV networks or
4:35
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. But at the same time, you also
4:38
Speaker 1: got a lot of black a better term, free publicity
4:42
Speaker 1: for these, you know, the next guys in the game.
4:46
Speaker 1: So I think that that was very healthy postseason, I
4:49
Speaker 1: think might be the best way I phrase it. And
4:53
Speaker 1: you know, there's not a lot of Tigers connections between
4:57
Speaker 1: these two teams, but there is a glaring one. And
5:00
Speaker 1: I don't know if this will make it into the
5:03
Speaker 1: national narrative, but one of my first thoughts was, this
5:08
Speaker 1: is a World Series between a team that acquired Jack
5:12
Speaker 1: Flaherty and a team that could have acquired Jack Flarity
5:16
Speaker 1: from the Tigers we talked about at the time. We've
5:22
Speaker 1: mentioned that, you know this narrative that this trade with
5:26
Speaker 1: the Dodgers with Flarity wasn't the quote unquote backup plan.
5:28
Speaker 1: Scott Vamily denied it. You could argue as of right
5:32
Speaker 1: now those words have proven valid given Sweeney's impact in
5:37
Speaker 1: Theronzo's promise in a short time with the organization. We'll
5:40
Speaker 1: talk about him a little bit later too. Do you
5:45
Speaker 1: do you think you I won't ever know, The fans
5:48
Speaker 1: will never know. Will you ever know the return that
5:50
Speaker 1: could have been had from the Yankees for Jack Flarity.
5:54
Speaker 1: Is that gonna leak any any time?
5:56
Speaker 2: Because probably and I would say probably not. But I
6:00
Speaker 2: have heard one of the names that was involved, and
6:03
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say it because you know, it wasn't
6:05
Speaker 2: a thousand percent confirmed, and I don't think it's really
6:08
Speaker 2: in either team's interest to leak those names, like it
6:13
Speaker 2: could make either team look bad. That's the reason these
6:15
Speaker 2: failed deals don't really get out to the public very often.
6:19
Speaker 2: I mean, I've certainly heard like what the Tigers could
6:22
Speaker 2: have had for e Rod and like, but that's never
6:26
Speaker 2: been officially reported, and you kind of can't, you know,
6:29
Speaker 2: like the top executives aren't gonna say like, oh yeah, yeah,
6:32
Speaker 2: that was it. You can run with that. That's just
6:34
Speaker 2: not something the teams won out there. I imagine it
6:37
Speaker 2: will be somewhat shrouded in mystery forever.
6:40
Speaker 1: Well what could have been? And again maybe maybe it
6:43
Speaker 1: was for all we know, For all we know what
6:45
Speaker 1: it was on paper, better return And then Swingey turns
6:48
Speaker 1: into X and Lorenzo turns into X and it's like,
6:51
Speaker 1: you know, the sort of door number two was the
6:52
Speaker 1: better door all along? You know, it could be one
6:54
Speaker 1: of those things, so very interesting. But with Flaherty, we'll
6:58
Speaker 1: get to his numbers here in a second. He was
7:02
Speaker 1: one of the headline makers of the postseason early on
7:06
Speaker 1: because in the Division Series, I mean, he had the
7:09
Speaker 1: combination which will always bring attention in some way of
7:14
Speaker 1: getting shelled and then also talking smack. So he was
7:20
Speaker 1: involved in some verbal verbal disputes. I guess you could
7:25
Speaker 1: say with Manny Machado himself no stranger to personality, I
7:31
Speaker 1: would say, and I was kind of curious. This is
7:35
Speaker 1: a guy that you have interacted with on a regular
7:39
Speaker 1: basis from February on until obviously he was traded. You've
7:43
Speaker 1: seen him go from this, you know, kind of I
7:47
Speaker 1: want to say, middling in terms of just like kind
7:49
Speaker 1: of trying to figure out his stuff and then looking
7:52
Speaker 1: like an all star caliber pitcher and then with the
7:54
Speaker 1: team at the time kind of cratering a little bit.
7:59
Speaker 1: Then it became the like, you know this he's going
8:01
Speaker 1: to get traded narrative. You're talking to a guy who's
8:04
Speaker 1: on a temporary visa essentially for the Tigers clubhouse, and
8:09
Speaker 1: then the trade happens, so you know him a little bit.
8:12
Speaker 1: I would imagine when you see the like Flairty getting
8:17
Speaker 1: into little spats like that, or in that moment you're
8:19
Speaker 1: watching on TV, what's kind of going through your mind?
8:24
Speaker 2: Kind of just laughing because I love stuff like that.
8:26
Speaker 2: You talk about good for the game, Let's see some personality,
8:28
Speaker 2: Let's see some emotion. Let's have a fight or two.
8:30
Speaker 2: We don't get many fights anymore. When are the Tigers
8:33
Speaker 2: going to get in a fight? Come on, let's go.
8:36
Speaker 2: In terms of Jack, like, you know, he's I think
8:40
Speaker 2: an interesting character in the game. I think they're pretty
8:44
Speaker 2: split opinions on him through the game. Like I said,
8:47
Speaker 2: you know, when he came to the Tigers, he didn't
8:50
Speaker 2: necessarily have the best reputation across the league. I mean,
8:53
Speaker 2: media wise, he's not one of the easier guys to
8:57
Speaker 2: deal with all the time. But you talk to you know,
9:00
Speaker 2: you kind of keep going and there's a little bit
9:02
Speaker 2: of Nick Castiano's factor where it's like, no, this is
9:05
Speaker 2: an interesting guy, maybe a little bit misunderstood. He definitely
9:09
Speaker 2: never seemed like as vocal or verbose as you saw
9:12
Speaker 2: when he was yelling at Machado, So that was a
9:14
Speaker 2: side of him I hadn't seen before. But I know
9:17
Speaker 2: he's definitely, you know, ultra intense, ultra competitive. He's someone
9:21
Speaker 2: you know, he's a union leader with the league. And
9:25
Speaker 2: since this a Tiger's podcast, when you've barely talked about
9:27
Speaker 2: the Tigers, I think since we're talking about Flerty, it
9:30
Speaker 2: brings it up naturally. Is it? So we're trying to
9:32
Speaker 2: run it back with Jack? Could the Tigers return bring
9:36
Speaker 2: Jack Flarerty back to Detroit this winter? Tough to say.
9:40
Speaker 2: He's raised his market so much, then again, it's just
9:45
Speaker 2: one good year. Like what kind of contract does he get?
9:48
Speaker 2: Is he going to get three sixty four eighties? That
9:51
Speaker 2: too high? I almost think no. And if he gets
9:55
Speaker 2: that kind of money, I'm not sure that's the commitment
9:57
Speaker 2: the Tigers are going to be looking for. But at
10:00
Speaker 2: the same time, we've heard eight yeah Jack, like just
10:02
Speaker 2: time in Detroit and all that. I think it's an
10:05
Speaker 2: interesting idea to at least keep an eye on this
10:07
Speaker 2: wind or not not something I would be opposed to
10:10
Speaker 2: in terms of constructing the team. But it all comes
10:12
Speaker 2: down to the almighty dollar.
10:15
Speaker 1: It does, and I repeat myself, if it's because he
10:19
Speaker 1: is such an important ranking member of the union, he
10:23
Speaker 1: is not going to take any discount for anybody. It
10:26
Speaker 1: doesn't do him any doesn't do the greater good for
10:29
Speaker 1: him to take any discount. He's got to go where
10:32
Speaker 1: the top dollar is because he's not setting a market.
10:35
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean, like he can't. He's
10:37
Speaker 1: got to be part of setting the market. And you know,
10:40
Speaker 1: I was thinking because I remember even back when JD.
10:43
Speaker 1: Martinez was traded, there was like, you know, it's just Twitter,
10:47
Speaker 1: so I'm not trying to take make it like sound
10:49
Speaker 1: more serious than it is, but there was like, oh, well,
10:51
Speaker 1: you know what if the Tigers brought him back after
10:54
Speaker 1: trading him to Arizona. That was like naivety about the
10:58
Speaker 1: state of the team. But you understand, every time someone
11:00
Speaker 1: gets traded in a contract year, the AutoMac thought is like, well, yeah,
11:04
Speaker 1: could you bring him back? And I don't don't actually
11:08
Speaker 1: see that, Yeah I don't. I can't really think of
11:11
Speaker 1: any example. I'm sure some example exists in some of
11:15
Speaker 1: these team sports, but you don't really see it. And
11:18
Speaker 1: I think part of it, we'll say, like typical for baseball.
11:23
Speaker 1: Part of it is that like if you're making a
11:24
Speaker 1: trade like that, it's probably an indictment of where you're
11:28
Speaker 1: at as a team and so therefore that guy's probably
11:32
Speaker 1: not gonna want to go back into that same situation.
11:36
Speaker 1: But we have here a unique circumstance where the Tigers
11:41
Speaker 1: were rebuilding and sellers and now they are a multiple
11:47
Speaker 1: round playoff team looking to add starting pitching. So I
11:52
Speaker 1: almost wager if there was a situation for it to happen,
11:56
Speaker 1: this would be that. And I would also probably say
12:01
Speaker 1: that if the Tigers don't make any serious play for
12:09
Speaker 1: Jack Flaherty, when it's when we when it's clear there's
12:13
Speaker 1: like interest and price is no issue, supposedly, I wonder
12:19
Speaker 1: if that validates any concerns about his back. I'm just
12:21
Speaker 1: saying that will be like a narrative because because if
12:25
Speaker 1: I was another team got a telemarker calling me, come on, dude,
12:29
Speaker 1: I'm doing a podcast.
12:30
Speaker 2: Uh.
12:31
Speaker 1: If I was a team that was looking at Jack
12:33
Speaker 1: Flaherty and I wasn't involved in the in the trade
12:38
Speaker 1: discussions at all, so therefore I didn't get any sort
12:40
Speaker 1: of medical and that like the Dodgers aren't interested, the
12:44
Speaker 1: Yankees aren't interested, the Tigers aren't interested. Like that would
12:49
Speaker 1: be the first question I would ask my president of
12:51
Speaker 1: Baseball operations, like is there something we don't know? Is
12:55
Speaker 1: what it would come to my mind. Whether that's fair
12:57
Speaker 1: or not, that's something that that would come to my mind.
13:00
Speaker 1: And I think he's healthy. Now, I'm gonna say that
13:03
Speaker 1: I think he's healthy. And then his postseason numbers. He's
13:06
Speaker 1: pitched just over fifteen innings, given up twelve and runs
13:10
Speaker 1: eight k's to seven strikeouts. So it's nothing crazy there.
13:14
Speaker 1: But also, for whatever it's worth, and how much this
13:17
Speaker 1: means like they've had to really rely on him because
13:19
Speaker 1: they've been depleted of starting pitching health and he's been
13:22
Speaker 1: one of their more Yeah. Again, I just laid the
13:25
Speaker 1: numbers out. There's not that it's not impressive, but it's
13:27
Speaker 1: like one of their more relied on guys in the
13:29
Speaker 1: pitching staff.
13:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think his back is an interesting
13:34
Speaker 2: kind of ongoing topic. Clearly, the Dodgers felt comfortable enough
13:38
Speaker 2: with the medicals to trade for him, and sure enough
13:41
Speaker 2: he has been healthy. I remember, I mean it was
13:43
Speaker 2: almost feels like a million years ago, but remember the
13:46
Speaker 2: trade deadline, he had had two injections in the back.
13:48
Speaker 2: It was like, what if they don't move him and
13:50
Speaker 2: then he gets hurt, then the Tigers are totally screwed
13:53
Speaker 2: Scott Harris as a more run like it was going
13:55
Speaker 2: to be the end of the world. Flairity goes to
13:57
Speaker 2: Los Angeles. Someone's really talked about the back pitch really well.
14:01
Speaker 2: But there's worth reminding, like, there is a lot at
14:05
Speaker 2: stake for Jack Flaherty to not tell anyone if the
14:08
Speaker 2: back starts aching a little bit. There is, And this
14:14
Speaker 2: is also important when it comes to his free agency.
14:16
Speaker 2: This is his real shot at a payday. This is
14:18
Speaker 2: probably going to be, you know, the the prime free
14:21
Speaker 2: agent years of his career. This most likely the biggest
14:24
Speaker 2: contract he is ever going to get. So yeah, if
14:27
Speaker 2: I were Jack, I would not mention anything about the
14:30
Speaker 2: back unless things were really really desire But I think
14:34
Speaker 2: based on what he did in the second half of
14:36
Speaker 2: the regular season, I think that's great for his market.
14:38
Speaker 2: I think it's enough to alleviate any potential concerns that
14:42
Speaker 2: could have been lingering there.
14:44
Speaker 1: Just as I said last week in regards to or
14:47
Speaker 1: not last week a couple of days ago in regards
14:50
Speaker 1: to George Lombard, and like, I'm not going to root
14:52
Speaker 1: against somebody for advancing in their career if that's what
14:54
Speaker 1: they want to do. I'm also not rooting for like,
14:57
Speaker 1: I'm not going to blame somebody for trying to maximize
15:00
Speaker 1: their economic you know, income potential, right, so like if
15:03
Speaker 1: he if he wants it. So that's another important context
15:07
Speaker 1: here is that like he's this guy who probably wasn't
15:11
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was always sure of himself, but the
15:15
Speaker 1: situation that he found himself in was there was no
15:18
Speaker 1: guarantee that a he was gonna be some like key
15:22
Speaker 1: trade deadline name float around, and b that he was
15:26
Speaker 1: gonna be in his in a position to get a
15:29
Speaker 1: multi year deal with UH with seven or with eight
15:33
Speaker 1: figures or whatever. So like you know, like like like
15:35
Speaker 1: what's on the table right now. So good on him.
15:38
Speaker 1: I'm happy for him.
15:40
Speaker 2: Uh.
15:41
Speaker 1: I just I also think here we go talking about
15:44
Speaker 1: payroll again. I also kind of think that this would
15:47
Speaker 1: be more of like the Tiger's gonna get more creative,
15:50
Speaker 1: I figure with UH with adding to the starting rotation
15:54
Speaker 1: then you know, going back to the well of Jack Flaherty,
15:57
Speaker 1: like that just seems a little bit more of the
15:59
Speaker 1: m oh so, uh, you can't argue what the results
16:02
Speaker 1: Lorenz Michael Lorenzen all Star traded and and Jack Flaherty
16:10
Speaker 1: really could have been an All Star, probably would have
16:11
Speaker 1: been their All Star. Honestly, if if there was like
16:14
Speaker 1: a team two years ago where it's like we got
16:16
Speaker 1: you somebody, everybody's hurt, you know, blah blah blah, like
16:18
Speaker 1: you could have easily filled him in there. I just
16:22
Speaker 1: feel like they're they're gonna they're looking forward, not looking back.
16:26
Speaker 2: But yeah, maybe I think you're probably right if there's
16:28
Speaker 2: some kind of world in which the market tanks, which
16:31
Speaker 2: I don't know, would probably only happen if there were
16:33
Speaker 2: actually injury injury concerns. But if you could get him
16:36
Speaker 2: for like three forty five, like I would think long
16:39
Speaker 2: and hard about doing that, But that's I bet he
16:43
Speaker 2: gets more than that and goes somewhere else.
16:45
Speaker 1: And you know, just to tie it back to our
16:46
Speaker 1: last episode, and you know that conversation continues on next
16:50
Speaker 1: and it will until there's some resolution. You would you
16:54
Speaker 1: rather do whatever this market, whatever you anticipate the market is.
16:58
Speaker 1: And by the way, there's projections on the athletics, so
17:00
Speaker 1: if you're a subscriber, you can you can go look
17:02
Speaker 1: at this stuff. Uh, like, whatever the projection is for flerity,
17:06
Speaker 1: you'd rather do that than the like a Verlander reunion
17:10
Speaker 1: and what could also be a costly, uh you know,
17:13
Speaker 1: situation depending.
17:17
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you always got to be where
17:18
Speaker 2: if you're talking like four or five years with Flarity.
17:21
Speaker 2: But generally speaking, I like bring back Flarity more than
17:24
Speaker 2: I do bring back Verlander.
17:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I tend to, I tend I tend to
17:28
Speaker 1: agree with that.
17:29
Speaker 2: So we'll see.
17:30
Speaker 1: I imagine there's a rolodex of twenty five guys at
17:34
Speaker 1: the UH at the front office of the Tigers has
17:37
Speaker 1: an idea of like, all right, this guy's got this
17:39
Speaker 1: one elite tool, and we're just gonna run that UH
17:43
Speaker 1: into into UH into the ground basically. And and by
17:47
Speaker 1: the way, I will be interested to see like how
17:49
Speaker 1: they how they approach it in general, because again, like
17:52
Speaker 1: part of the expectation now is to have a little
17:56
Speaker 1: bit more serious of an offseason. I'm talking about national
17:58
Speaker 1: expectation as much as local and bringing back Jack Flaherty
18:02
Speaker 1: would obviously check that box, so you know, forever, forever
18:06
Speaker 1: that's worth. Let's let's let's go president and future. Here
18:12
Speaker 1: a little bit kind of thread the needle. We we
18:14
Speaker 1: didn't talk about this. MLB dot Com had named their
18:19
Speaker 1: their picture and position player, a minor league pitcher and
18:22
Speaker 1: position player of the year for each team, and the
18:28
Speaker 1: awards were given to one guy that I think Tigers
18:33
Speaker 1: fans he certainly our great listeners here at Tiger's territory
18:37
Speaker 1: and are pretty familiar with. And the other one that's
18:40
Speaker 1: kind of like come up, come on strong a little bit.
18:43
Speaker 2: Uh.
18:44
Speaker 1: I'm not comparing the two, but like if you remember,
18:48
Speaker 1: like when like all of a sudden, school was this
18:51
Speaker 1: name that you kept kept kind of hearing, or even
18:53
Speaker 1: Carpenter was like this name he kept kind of hearing,
18:55
Speaker 1: that would be Jaden Ham pitcher. And then Kevin McGonagall,
18:59
Speaker 1: the price that's really on everybody's radar since since he
19:04
Speaker 1: was drafted. So I'm I'm gonna lie, I don't really
19:08
Speaker 1: know that much about him. He's he was drafted last
19:11
Speaker 1: year and and and I know, like Tiger's My League
19:16
Speaker 1: report has done a good mock up on him, you know,
19:19
Speaker 1: So I would recommend everybody go read that listen their stuff.
19:22
Speaker 1: In general, those are good guys, But you know, could
19:26
Speaker 1: could the Tigers have something here fifth round pick, you know,
19:29
Speaker 1: like still kind of you know, obviously really new to
19:31
Speaker 1: the organization, you know, maybe that's maybe it's a guy
19:34
Speaker 1: that we got to have better on our radar.
19:37
Speaker 2: Uh No, he's very much put himself on the radar.
19:40
Speaker 2: This is a guy who's a fifth round pick, so
19:42
Speaker 2: he was drafted much higher than bo Brisk. He was
19:44
Speaker 2: a twenty seventh round pick. But I think just kind
19:46
Speaker 2: of the profile seems a little brisky esque, and you've
19:51
Speaker 2: seen him already make big stride since he's in pro ball.
19:54
Speaker 2: I think Scooball was an uber talent because of playing
19:58
Speaker 2: in Seattle and having an injury, was just a little overlooked.
20:01
Speaker 2: I think Ham's a good pitcher who the Tigers and
20:04
Speaker 2: Ham himself have already helped improve. Basically went from just
20:09
Speaker 2: throwing fastballs at the knees in college now riding that
20:11
Speaker 2: vert fastball at the top of the zone. He's added
20:14
Speaker 2: a slider to a mix I believe already included a
20:16
Speaker 2: curve and a change. He's had a lot of success
20:19
Speaker 2: with that pitch, added more more movement. I think on
20:21
Speaker 2: all this stuff really successful first year in the Tigers
20:25
Speaker 2: farm system for Jade and Ham topped out. Excuse me,
20:29
Speaker 2: at Hya A, West Michigan. One of those guys you're
20:32
Speaker 2: gonna be really interesting. A does he make it to
20:34
Speaker 2: big league camp? And if so, like him and Kevin
20:37
Speaker 2: McGonagall as well, like two guys my eyes are going
20:39
Speaker 2: to be glued on in spring training because I haven't
20:42
Speaker 2: really seen much, if any of them with my own
20:44
Speaker 2: eyes yet, but they tore up the lower rungs of
20:47
Speaker 2: the miners and real quick have become very serious prospects
20:51
Speaker 2: for the Tigers. Ham obviously a little more unexpected dan McGonagall,
20:55
Speaker 2: but that's that's the type of guy that good systems
20:59
Speaker 2: turn into a solid major league pitcher, whatever his role
21:02
Speaker 2: may end up being, and Ham's in position to do that.
21:07
Speaker 2: You know, big leagues next year might be a stretch,
21:09
Speaker 2: but the way people are talking about him, it sounds
21:11
Speaker 2: like he's not far from being a mature, well rounded pitcher.
21:16
Speaker 1: Number seven on MLB dot COM's prospect rankings for the
21:19
Speaker 1: Tigers just forever that's worth, and number three behind only
21:23
Speaker 1: Jackson Joe and Max Clark is McGonagall. And you know,
21:28
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna pretend like I like watch film on
21:30
Speaker 1: this guy, but you look, you understood the prospect went,
21:34
Speaker 1: you know, report, and then everything he's kind of continued
21:37
Speaker 1: to do I like, I love the the hym and
21:40
Speaker 1: Clark tie, you know, through the system. That's really fun.
21:43
Speaker 1: And you know McGonagall, he seems like like for the level,
21:50
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying like you know, there's not like
21:51
Speaker 1: improvement there, but about as polished as you would want
21:54
Speaker 1: a prospect at this level to be at the plate.
21:58
Speaker 1: You look at his numbers. He he hit three h
22:01
Speaker 1: nine getting up to West Michigan. And check this out,
22:06
Speaker 1: forty six walks, twenty eight strikeouts. I mean, if that's
22:11
Speaker 1: not a guy, if that's not a guy that dominates
22:14
Speaker 1: the strike zone, like I don't know what is and
22:18
Speaker 1: he's he he has this question because if you look
22:22
Speaker 1: at again, like his profile, it says shortstop slash second base.
22:26
Speaker 1: So that's the number one thing that everyone goes to
22:29
Speaker 1: because there's a little bit of a Colt Keith element
22:31
Speaker 1: where everyone kind of tracks the bat to go, like
22:34
Speaker 1: no one, no evaluator is having that big of questions
22:37
Speaker 1: about the bat. So then it's like, where's he gonna
22:40
Speaker 1: play defensively? And it would be cool to see this
22:45
Speaker 1: bat at a good defensive shortstop you know position in
22:50
Speaker 1: Chmerical Park.
22:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, I ask it for too much though, so I
22:54
Speaker 2: don't know. Yeah, again, one of those things I'm going
22:57
Speaker 2: to be glued on in spring training is just watching
22:59
Speaker 2: this take grounders at short you know, how does he
23:02
Speaker 2: actually look, how's the arm play. I get the sense
23:05
Speaker 2: the Tigers are going to try to make this work.
23:07
Speaker 2: I mean, they just drafted Bryce Rayner, who you hope
23:10
Speaker 2: is your shortstop for the future. But I think he's
23:13
Speaker 2: also gonna be viewed as a little bit more Raw
23:16
Speaker 2: didn't actually play after he was drafted, had a little
23:19
Speaker 2: bit of a hamstring injury that contributed to that. I mean,
23:22
Speaker 2: he's gonna be fine, nothing to be concerned about, but
23:25
Speaker 2: kind of worth noting. I think the organization is gonna
23:28
Speaker 2: view Rainers just having a little bit of a longer
23:31
Speaker 2: developmental timeline, and not in a bad way. It's just
23:34
Speaker 2: that's kind of how he is. Whereas like McGonagall, like
23:36
Speaker 2: you said, polished is a very good word at least,
23:40
Speaker 2: you know, kind of a word I've heard from multiple
23:41
Speaker 2: people just regarding his bat, like more polished ready maybe
23:47
Speaker 2: than even even Max Clark, you know, in terms of
23:50
Speaker 2: just the pure hit tool. That's gonna serve McGonagall very well.
23:53
Speaker 2: And the Tigers are gonna have plenty of incentive to
23:55
Speaker 2: at least try to make it work at shortstop. When
23:59
Speaker 2: you start talking about like moving to second, then what
24:01
Speaker 2: do you do with Colt Keith? Well, I guess you
24:03
Speaker 2: move cold Keith the first, But what if you like
24:06
Speaker 2: and so we have all the we start projecting three
24:08
Speaker 2: four years out and look we do this. It's the
24:10
Speaker 2: off season. It's fun to talk about. Those conversations almost
24:14
Speaker 2: always end up being silly, like these things do just
24:16
Speaker 2: work themselves out and something unexpected happens. But kind of
24:20
Speaker 2: interesting to note what's going on in the Arizona Fall
24:23
Speaker 2: League right now where Jusuei Brasenio is tearing it up
24:26
Speaker 2: and this guy who we were talking about in spring training,
24:29
Speaker 2: like oh, canny stick behind the plate at ketcher. Now
24:32
Speaker 2: the Tigers have Tyron Loronzo who's playing catcher, and Brasenio
24:36
Speaker 2: in the Arizona Fall League has played only first base
24:39
Speaker 2: and some DH listed only as a first baseman. So
24:43
Speaker 2: that's kind of highly interesting if you want to play
24:45
Speaker 2: the foolish game of like what will the Tigers look
24:48
Speaker 2: like in five years?
24:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly like you said, this will work itself out.
24:53
Speaker 1: It's the question for me, and we'll get to the
24:57
Speaker 1: Arizona Fall League here in a second. The question for
24:59
Speaker 1: me is like, did how hard do you force force
25:06
Speaker 1: might be not the right word. How hard do you
25:09
Speaker 1: like kind of make shortstop a priority here? And this
25:13
Speaker 1: question will apply to these guys we're gonna talk about
25:15
Speaker 1: here in a second, But like, I how like if
25:20
Speaker 1: he is not what you want as a major league
25:24
Speaker 1: shortstop and he's his bad is good enough and he's
25:27
Speaker 1: in the big leagues, Like how much would like struggling
25:30
Speaker 1: at shortstop defensively like affect his confidence? Like I'm got
25:33
Speaker 1: These are the kind of things that are like going
25:35
Speaker 1: through my mind. So like part of me almost would.
25:40
Speaker 2: This is so dumb.
25:40
Speaker 1: He's twenty years old, he's got plenty of time. But
25:42
Speaker 1: part of me is kind of like, I hope there's
25:44
Speaker 1: like a plan where it's like eventually we're just gonna
25:46
Speaker 1: kind of go here with in regards to McGonagall, and
25:50
Speaker 1: then kind of figure out the rest out. They have
25:53
Speaker 1: shown the ability to pivot on guys. Obviously, cold Keith
25:56
Speaker 1: came up as a third baseman, Jayce Young came up
25:58
Speaker 1: as a second baseman, So like, I'm sure this will
26:01
Speaker 1: this will like play, Like I said, play itself out,
26:04
Speaker 1: but part of me is like it might just be
26:07
Speaker 1: better to ease himself in if you do think he's
26:10
Speaker 1: a shortstop at the second base position or you know, third,
26:13
Speaker 1: or you know something, because even Bobby Witt was getting
26:17
Speaker 1: time at second base when he first came up, and
26:20
Speaker 1: and and he I would say, he had defensive questions
26:24
Speaker 1: coming up, but no one was like like there was
26:27
Speaker 1: an anticipation like we might have to move him from
26:29
Speaker 1: shortstop when he first came up, So like these are
26:31
Speaker 1: all things that.
26:34
Speaker 2: Is still playing, like Adalberto Mond to see at short
26:36
Speaker 2: stop at that point in time, probably yeah, I think
26:38
Speaker 2: so yeah, okay, so Mond, like Monesty's a great At
26:41
Speaker 2: one point, he was the next big Royals prospect, you know,
26:44
Speaker 2: and to the point where it's like, oh, maybe Bobby
26:46
Speaker 2: WIT's got to play second, Like a what a ridiculous
26:49
Speaker 2: conversation that looks like now a question I did get
26:52
Speaker 2: in my mailbag like could McGonagall or Clerk debut next year,
26:57
Speaker 2: you know, because this was brought up because I was like,
27:00
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if Jayce Young and Jackson Joe will
27:02
Speaker 2: play in twenty twenty four in Detroit and that sure
27:04
Speaker 2: enough they both did. But I'll say what I said
27:07
Speaker 2: in my mailbag on the athletic like, especially given they
27:11
Speaker 2: are both prep hitters, just seems highly unlikely for as
27:15
Speaker 2: polished as McGonagall is, Like, these are guys who haven't
27:20
Speaker 2: really touched double A yet to play two levels, the
27:24
Speaker 2: two hardest levels of the miners, and debut in the
27:26
Speaker 2: majors next year. I guess nothing's impossible, but it would
27:30
Speaker 2: require a truly spectacular year. I think for either of
27:33
Speaker 2: those guys to get up to the big leagues at
27:35
Speaker 2: what age twenty would seem I guess maybe we have
27:39
Speaker 2: some different evidence now, but would still seem pretty Unscott Harris, like,
27:44
Speaker 2: I would say any world in which that happens is
27:46
Speaker 2: which these guys go from like, oh, pretty good prospects
27:50
Speaker 2: to like, oh, this could be one of the next
27:53
Speaker 2: stars in the game. That's the type of year it
27:56
Speaker 2: would take from either of them. So I, you know,
27:59
Speaker 2: wouldn't get my hopes up for that.
28:01
Speaker 1: It would be awesome, uh well, and it would be
28:04
Speaker 1: the result of like one of the cooler moments you
28:08
Speaker 1: could have as a fan. It's like, oh, we got
28:10
Speaker 1: this hot, this prospect so high like he has to
28:13
Speaker 1: come into the majors barely out of his teenage years.
28:15
Speaker 1: But it just doesn't happen that often. That's why you don't,
28:19
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's very hard. It's very hard to
28:21
Speaker 1: be a major League baseball player. And then again, like
28:25
Speaker 1: how often if you're going to improve your lineup, like
28:27
Speaker 1: a lot of fans want like where are the spots?
28:31
Speaker 1: And you already have some of young players, like where
28:32
Speaker 1: are the spots for them? Anyway, you know, you can
28:34
Speaker 1: play yourself into a lot of directions there. Well, let's
28:38
Speaker 1: get to uh Rasinio and Lorenzo. So I'm a lead,
28:45
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just gonna read a couple of stats, just
28:47
Speaker 1: a couple sir Rasinio in the Arizona Fall League one
28:51
Speaker 1: point five to one four OHPS, Lorenzo one point two
28:56
Speaker 1: eight nine, Risinio number one in the whole afl Loronzo
29:01
Speaker 1: number four. The ever, I feel like every time I
29:04
Speaker 1: see something on X it's like these guys just like
29:07
Speaker 1: hitting the cover off the ball. And and then you know,
29:11
Speaker 1: we talk about the McGonagall thing. I was like, man,
29:13
Speaker 1: the Tigers have this like they just have like a
29:16
Speaker 1: supply of bats that I can get really excited for like,
29:19
Speaker 1: it seems like there's a lot of possibility here, and
29:23
Speaker 1: again I have unfairly playing out in my mind. I'm like, Okay, so,
29:28
Speaker 1: how how if Loronzo's bat just keeps kind of going
29:32
Speaker 1: this direction? How long do we stick with the like
29:35
Speaker 1: how do we delay his bat being if his bats
29:39
Speaker 1: major league ready at a certain point, not this year
29:41
Speaker 1: but maybe or not like next year, but maybe like
29:43
Speaker 1: in two years or something like that.
29:44
Speaker 2: If his bat's major.
29:45
Speaker 1: League ready, but he still has to learn how to catch,
29:48
Speaker 1: Like especially for manager like aj Hinch, like like, are
29:52
Speaker 1: we like, is his his profile is gonna be here
29:55
Speaker 1: and then here, like we're gonna like how often do
29:58
Speaker 1: you hold on to the catcher thing?
30:00
Speaker 2: I don't know.
30:00
Speaker 1: These are just questions I think, like every time I
30:02
Speaker 1: see him smack the ball, I'm like, I might have
30:05
Speaker 1: to wait an extra year to see him do this
30:07
Speaker 1: in the major leagues because he's learning the hardest position
30:10
Speaker 1: there is on the field.
30:11
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, Like, especially for Loronzo, that's kind of
30:15
Speaker 2: a legit question. You know, some of the videos that
30:18
Speaker 2: came out of him playing catcher as soon as he
30:20
Speaker 2: got to the Tigers, So like but got to take
30:23
Speaker 2: note at some of the reviews have become pretty good.
30:26
Speaker 2: Keith Law was raving about his arm strength. You know,
30:30
Speaker 2: Ketcher does have a harder developmental timeline. It wasn't all
30:34
Speaker 2: that long ago. Dyan Dingler was promoted to Eerie at
30:37
Speaker 2: the same time as Spencer Toorglesen and Riley Green arrived
30:41
Speaker 2: to the big leagues what two years later than those guys,
30:44
Speaker 2: basically because Ketcher is just hard. But I think Loronzo,
30:48
Speaker 2: regardless of what happens with his defensive profile, is always
30:51
Speaker 2: going to be treated a little bit more as a
30:53
Speaker 2: bat first guy. It seems like the bat might just
30:57
Speaker 2: be pretty advanced pricin. I mean, gosh, this guy did
31:01
Speaker 2: not play above Lakeland last year and he's just tearing
31:04
Speaker 2: up the Fall League. You do have to put these
31:08
Speaker 2: things like, take them with a grain of salt to
31:10
Speaker 2: offseason go Joey Wentz dominated the Arizona Fall League. So,
31:14
Speaker 2: but I think that's interesting. Winston already pitched in the
31:18
Speaker 2: big leagues, I believe, and then went to the AFL.
31:20
Speaker 2: He was facing more inferior hitters than he he had.
31:25
Speaker 2: You know, the best he had faced. Persino's facing probably
31:29
Speaker 2: better pitching than he's ever faced. The Loronzo's facing as good,
31:32
Speaker 2: if not better pitching than he's ever faced. And these
31:34
Speaker 2: guys are tearing it up. Still small samples, but I
31:37
Speaker 2: think that gives them, like makes what they're doing a
31:41
Speaker 2: little more enticing, just because they're so young and it's
31:45
Speaker 2: not like they're seeing a decline and stuff right now.
31:48
Speaker 2: Like I said with Bersino, especially maybe an uptick. This
31:51
Speaker 2: guy didn't play above Lakeland. That's great.
31:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we've reached this will be something we'll discuss
31:59
Speaker 1: later in the off season, but we've reached a very
32:02
Speaker 1: interesting time with the Tigers where you have an overall
32:07
Speaker 1: health rating major and farm system like as like better
32:15
Speaker 1: than it's been. I mean, well, I will go back
32:18
Speaker 1: and kind of look but better than it's been in
32:20
Speaker 1: a long time, because even those Dombrowski years, like what's
32:23
Speaker 1: he known for. It's not for building farm systems, you know.
32:27
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a nice little combination in Detroit
32:31
Speaker 1: right now. And and by the way, like it should
32:33
Speaker 1: like even if you got to take it with a
32:35
Speaker 1: grain of salt, you should like be excited to kind
32:38
Speaker 1: of see these guys like Rake and and all these
32:41
Speaker 1: opportunities because these are live reps. They're taking advantage of opportunities,
32:46
Speaker 1: and the fact that they're out there means that they
32:48
Speaker 1: are getting better. Like that's like there's only one way
32:51
Speaker 1: to get better, and that's by doing right. So like
32:54
Speaker 1: this should be a little bit of a source of
32:56
Speaker 1: pride if you follow the Tigers farm system and you're like,
32:59
Speaker 1: all right, I gotta keep them mind about this guy
33:01
Speaker 1: because you know you might hear him sooner rather than later,
33:04
Speaker 1: sooner than you think. And and then it gives us
33:07
Speaker 1: good fight er to be like Renzo will Catcher Rasenia,
33:10
Speaker 1: what's he gonna do? And you know McGonagall, is you
33:12
Speaker 1: a source of and you know Rainer like they're gonna
33:14
Speaker 1: move them the outfield eventually, like you know, like all
33:16
Speaker 1: these things, Max Clark.
33:18
Speaker 2: Like we're not that far from from We got to
33:20
Speaker 2: trade all the prospects now for so many years because
33:23
Speaker 2: past we got to get more prospects, trade for prospects.
33:26
Speaker 2: And now welcome to Michael Lias's world. You have all
33:29
Speaker 2: these good young players. What are you gonna do with them?
33:32
Speaker 2: You can't you know, there probably won't be room for
33:35
Speaker 2: them all. But you know, I think some will sort
33:37
Speaker 2: themselves out and some won't. And and so I was
33:40
Speaker 2: just say, hold off a little bit, only sell all
33:42
Speaker 2: the prospects talk, because that also doesn't seem very Scott
33:46
Speaker 2: Harris like, I think they're gonna try to let all
33:48
Speaker 2: this young talent accumulate and then you know, kind of
33:52
Speaker 2: separate the wheat from the chaff there and see and
33:54
Speaker 2: see what happens.
33:55
Speaker 1: You know, I'm I'm always down to give friendly advice,
34:00
Speaker 1: is Scott Harris friend of the podcast? Uh, hit up
34:03
Speaker 1: Sam Presty in Oklahoma City and be like, hey, how
34:05
Speaker 1: do you manage all these assets? You know, like, like
34:08
Speaker 1: you know, Sam Presty has been doing it for years.
34:10
Speaker 1: I think, big good, little sounding board.
34:12
Speaker 2: You know, if only you could trade for first round
34:17
Speaker 2: picks like three or four years out in MLB, I
34:19
Speaker 2: feel like Scott might be into it. I think you would.
34:22
Speaker 1: I think, hey, it makes people are obsessed. NBA fans
34:25
Speaker 1: are obsessed with that stuff. It would be good, It
34:28
Speaker 1: would be good interest.
34:29
Speaker 2: Uh. I can't believe they gave up a fifth rounder
34:31
Speaker 2: for this.
34:31
Speaker 1: Guy, you know. All right, Well that's uh, that's a
34:38
Speaker 1: good talk there, Cody, good talk there, Cody, any uh,
34:40
Speaker 1: anything else you want to get into before you.
34:41
Speaker 2: Get odd here. No, I think we're all said looking
34:44
Speaker 2: forward to watching the World Series this week, and we're
34:46
Speaker 2: not that far away from Hot Stove season officially kicking
34:50
Speaker 2: off with the conclusion of the World Series.
34:52
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a very short offseason. He
34:55
Speaker 1: gets short. It feels like it gets shorter every year.
34:58
Speaker 1: And by the way, love it. Good for us, you know,
35:01
Speaker 1: and good for you. If you subscribe to The Athletic,
35:03
Speaker 1: which you should, you can read all of Cody's great work.
35:05
Speaker 1: Please subscribe to Tiger Territory wherever you get podcasts as
35:10
Speaker 1: well as YouTube and the social media is including x
35:13
Speaker 1: formerly known as Twitter. Cody is at Cody Stapenhagen. I
35:16
Speaker 1: am at Kieran Underscore, Dectly pod page is at Tiger Territory, Underscore, YouTube, Instagram,
35:22
Speaker 1: all that stuff. We are there and we love interacting
35:25
Speaker 1: with all of you. We appreciate everybody who listens who
35:28
Speaker 1: made the move over from turning the Corner into now
35:32
Speaker 1: Tiger Territory, and I say this all the time, but
35:35
Speaker 1: we're just getting started, So thank you everybody for listening
35:38
Speaker 1: to us, even though it is the off season, and
35:41
Speaker 1: we promise to do our best to deliver a good
35:43
Speaker 1: product for you. So for Cody Staveenhagen, I am Kieran Steckley. Everybody,
35:49
Speaker 1: have a great day.