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What I've Learnt - Eve Mahlab AO · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: As we celebrate International Women's Day, an extraordinary newsweek with gender and alleged sexual assault issues front and centre, I'm thrilled to feature lawyer, trailblazer, women's rights advocate, and philanthropist Eve Marlab Ao, a successful businesswoman who has worked to improve the lives of women in Australia for decades.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: A member of the coordinating committee of the Women's Electoral Lobby in Victoria from 1972 to 1976, she was a member of the Victorian Government Committee of Inquiry into the status of women, Businesswoman of the Year, and was awarded an Order of Australia in the officer category for service to government, business, and the community, particularly to women.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: Together with philanthropist Jill Reichstein, they founded Australians Investing in Women, originally called the Australian Women Donors Network.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: It aims to persuade the philanthropic sector to give more funds to women or to projects that were demonstrably inclusive of women.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Most giving is ungendered to sport, medical research, to homelessness, to education.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It assumed that the ability to access the benefits of a project funded by philanthropy are the same for women as they are for men, but often they are not.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So philanthropists have to be gender-wise and ensure that projects they fund are designed to reach women as well as men.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been an extraordinary, incredible newsweek, as we know.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: With accusations of rape culture in our parliament, Eve is forthright about sex education.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: She says boys and men need to learn that silence does not mean consent, and women need to learn that men think that silence means consent.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thrilled to have you on board.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd really like to start by chatting to you about, as I mentioned, the newsweek we've had from our Attorney General being accused of historical rape, an avalanche of private schoolgirls claiming sexual assault, and the powerhouse speech by Australian of the year Grace Tame at the Canberra Press Club.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: As someone who has been at the coal phase of promoting women's rights, gender lens issues, and the importance of investing in protecting women, how do you see the latest issues changing the landscape?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: What do you see as the key tools we need moving forward?
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And do you have hope that there is a revolution coming, as Tame cried from the podium?
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: What will that look like, do you think?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, I'm not so much for revolution as I am for reform.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, but I do think uh there are tools now which will be enormously helpful for women.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, the the best one of all is the internet.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: The internet has enabled women's voices to come together, and whether it's um one organization or the other, it just enables us to have a voice.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's a very good point.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, for example, are you referring to things like people being able to report like these schoolgirls?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, obviously you'd be aware this one this one schoolgirl put something up on the internet talking about how she'd been subject to, you know, an alleged sexual assault, and thousands of other girls went online and reported their stories.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's pretty extraordinary, isn't it?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what you mean?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: You also have the Me Too movement, which has brought the voices of women together.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I think that's very impactful.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And is it something that you ever thought would happen in your lifetime to see this wonderful technology?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, and what I'm excited about is that when these young women who uh understand technology, as I do not, um they uh will form another me too sort of movement about dying with dignity.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's that the time has come for older women to get together and talk about um how they would perhaps rather leave this life than live in the circumstances that they do in some of these um aged care homes.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously it's not a uniquely female experience that, because obviously there are men that would also want to choose the way they exit.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: But I suppose what you're saying is just another example of choosing how we want to live as women or die.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that what you're saying?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but just like sexual abuse, it happens to men too.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's right.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Although it would appear that women are far more subject, but yes, there are men that are abused sexually, but the avalanche of women that are coming out and talking about that, you're saying that technology is really facilitating a unification of all of these voices in whatever issue that people want to drive and that agenda.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: And in democracy, the government has to uh uh pay attention to the changing mood.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, from your perspective, do you think that um we as women are making progress?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Are you let's say I mean you started many, many years ago.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: You've always been in the front line, really, at the coal phase of much of this um movement.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you started back in the 70s.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen a lot of change?
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I know you've done enormous work, obviously, uh, you know, with Julie Riley and all and Jill Reichstein.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: What have you seen?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any progress?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, well, just the moo to me too movement, the these young women speaking out, that's huge progress.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it's it's limited to the democracies, basically.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: It you know, it doesn't have uh women in other places in the world.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yes, yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: So you feel that actually while the internet is facilitating change in the Western world, you feel it's not as impactful in other third world countries.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: They're still subject, as we know, to extraordinary abuse.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it has impact in democracies.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it has impact in autocracies, but it has to start somewhere, doesn't it?
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it may move towards democracies in these other countries.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so from your perspective, you know, and I know that you're very aware of what's going on politically, is your observation that um with all of the things that have happened this week in particular, just to bring it into the actual um the present, do you feel that there is going to be now change at the government?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because at the end of the day, unless legislation and governments act, then it's all a little bit of, you know, there's a lot of huff and puff, but are we actually going to get some action and change, do you think?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: I I think there'll be, I don't know, sort of some introspection at the political level.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as I've said before, I think that the more conservative organizations need to appoint feminist advocates so that they understand what's going on in the world, um, amongst women particularly.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the fact is, we're 50% of the population or more, actually.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and we make change, and admittedly, it's gradual change, but I think that's the best sort of change that there is.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how what are the logistics of a feminist advocate?
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: How would that work in practice?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Have you got an idea of how that would be implemented?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, I haven't really, but um it would be um you'd have to find someone who has the skills to be a feminist advocate, or perhaps set up a subcommittee in whatever organization it is, um, and give them permission to advocate.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And they could advocate as extreme as they liked, and um, but it would alert people and particularly men in power to know what's going on, especially amongst younger women.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, at the end of the day, that person has to be an advocate, but you you would see them as working with government to ensure that government was kept up to date on gender issues, is that what I think um uh they uh government would be paying them after all.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: So exactly, yeah.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: So we need independence, don't we?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: How do we have to make sure they're independent?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, their effectiveness is a little bit limited.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I take your point, and it would probably, I'm assuming, it would come.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are plenty of advocates that surround parliament.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of making sure that there's somebody who is representative and credible.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always believed in understanding your opposition.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: I always read what the people I disagree with say.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: It equips you really to argue back.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good point.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you see as some of the main issues for you that over time?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you've you've obviously focused on women's issues, but what are some of the key issues maybe that you can talk to me a little bit about, maybe two or three that you see as absolutely critical at the moment?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that is that something that you can just hone in on a little bit for me?
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think some of the gains are under threat.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think particularly uh uh reproductive issues are under threat in the United States.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Access to abortion is under threat in the United States, and uh we still don't have reasonable pay.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think equal pay is the wrong word these days because there are some people arguing that um the pay is more equal because men's wages have come down to women's women's seven corner.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually isn't that crazy?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so crazy.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they're two issues that you see as paramount and really important to address.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you see in terms of the rape culture, the the the issues that are coming out about women claiming they've been assaulted and you know very seriously from everywhere, from parliament through to schools?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these are bastions where women should be protected and safe.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't like the word protection because I like the word liberation much more than protection.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: If we go back to protection, we won't be allowed out of the house, out of the house.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I hear you.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a good point.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I I I think as far as the women's movement is concerned, I think it's it's split into all sorts of bits and pieces.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's losing some of its strength because it's becoming too wide.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think there needs to be some clarity.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think as the women's movement gets broader and encompasses more and more issues, there's more room for uh disagreement.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, if we keep our objectives narrow, I think to the original things like equal pay, although that's not working so well, or uh access to contraception and abortion, etc., it's more likely that we'll continue to have strength.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So your point is if we if it's too broad, what actually happens is it gets diluted and becomes ineffective because it's too monolithic and it's too burdensome and too broad.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes that does make sense.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's something that I'm not sure how that's contained, because I think that's the challenge is how do you throw out certain elements, but I take your point.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: It is it becomes everybody and everything jumps on the movement rather than a streamlined approach.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that what you're saying?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um, and some women are alienated because they don't agree with some of the the um issues that the women's um uh uh the women's movement is now encompassing.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for instance, gay issues, which I support absolutely.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think there are people who wouldn't join the women's movement because they're um not are not interested, they might actually be anti-gay.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's interesting.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: The same is true with Black Lives Matter.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, black lives do matter, and uh I would support any organization which furthers that.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't think unless it's talking about again the issues like contraception, the right to work.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think again it it has the the um possibility of weakening the movement and causing disruption.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Also, for instance, um the Me Too movement, which I think is a fabulous, fabulous movement, comes out and is anti-capitalist.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So um, well, I mean, we live under capitalism.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I personally think that um as long as it's controlled by democratic governments, it is probably the best way of furthering prosperity for a larger number of people um that you can alienate.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't see that it's really um judicious to pick out capitalism as um uh relevant to uh women's safety.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I understand what you're saying.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the overarching theme of what you're pointing out is trying to keep the purity and clarity of the movement and not have it washed over by too many other elements that could dilute or make it ineffective.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's right, and the energy.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that it takes to manage too much of it and to get distracted from the main cause.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um these other movements are very important, and I think women should join in those movements and support them either with their skills or their money or whatever.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: I just think it's difficult to put them into the women's movement as well.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: We should keep our objectives narrow.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: I have such reverence for your generation, which is also actually my mother's generation, as you know.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And like you, she carved a path as a lawyer and went on to the bar and then became a magistrate.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: There were only maybe 30 women doing law when both of you did law.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Now almost 50% of lawyers are women, which is fabulous.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you think this goes to the heart of changing our culture?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: More women on boards, in business, in law, in medicine.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's a really effective way to really redress the power balance?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Above all, we need more women in parliament.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about that.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: How do you see that?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the Liberal Party's in an interesting uh juncture right now.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: There needs to be more um what's opportunity for the men in the Liberal Party to hear the views of women, particularly young women.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, otherwise they're going to lose support.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: And is that something do you think that's new, or do you think it's been like that for a long time?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's gathering momentum again because of the internet.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's just good practice.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Parliament's become quite a hotbed at the moment.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so clearly it's not that exciting for many women to head in that direction.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: How do we encourage women um to to move in that direction?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we establish the um uh venues to do it, and um uh there uh there's one I know of, um uh I think founded by the philanthropist Carol Carol Schwartz, um, which is called Pathways to Politics at the universities.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not sure how many universities that there are now in Australia that give the course, but it's for women to um learn how to get into politics and I think to succeed in politics.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a very organization that I founded with Jewel Reichstein, which is about getting money to women's organizations, uh, because they all need money, and um so that will also give a voice and to women.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's happening, it's just happening perhaps more slowly than a lot of us would like.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I prefer reform to revolution.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think that makes sense.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, talk to me a little bit about what you founded with Joe Rickstein, because it's really interesting what it's been going for quite a while now.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: How long has that been going?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe 10 years, I think.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, maybe more.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: The the background is that I had been involved in several women's organizations, and what I realized we all needed was money, because um giving time and talent um is all very well, but they also need money.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we started something which was it was probably not a good name for it, the Women's Donor Network, which is about driving more philanthropic funding to women's organizations or initiatives.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I think we've been fairly we've had some success in the private philanthropy sector, uh, but now they're widening to um uh address corporate philanthropy, which is much, much bigger than private philanthropy, and um they uh are going to do in the corporate sector.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And because of that, they've also changed the name, we've also changed the name, to Australians investing in women.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I much prefer that name, I have to say.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I like the name change, as I said to Julie.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's a much it's a really good step.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a great board and they're a great leader, and everything's going to be very effective.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very proud of them.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think they're proud of you too.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a it's a two-way street.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, on another note, I mean, you referred to the power of money, and we you and I chatted about this briefly.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if I can just reflect on your history, you're a survivor of one of the most traumatic periods in history.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me a bit about how you and your family escaped the Nazi invasion and what you've learned about the power of family, the power of money?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Talk to me about resilience and how it manifested for you.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, well, um I was born in Vienna, and I was two when uh the Anschluss happened, and um uh we were evicted from our home and we were hidden in the top floor of a hotel for several months.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was only two, but it had an effect on me, and I think it's caused a lot of anxiety, and I think it's also uh sort of uh made me rebel against powerlessness.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I had a lot of trouble at school because I was um uh rebellious, and um and I joined this feminist institution, and I had the Best time of my life for several years.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the powerlessness has sort of made me think about empowering women.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's where my energy energy comes from.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And also you talked about, you know, the power of money and how you know that if it was.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if we would not have been able to get out of Vienna, and we would have ended up in a concentration camp if my grandfather, uh, who was wealthy and um uh was not able to pay the exit levy that the Nazis for all of us to get out of the country.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and um and quite frankly, I'd just be dead if it wasn't for that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: I suppose what you know, one of the things you referred to, there's there's that reference, but also that actually what you're saying is you know, money of and itself can create action and make change.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you do that's why, in a sense, women investing in women and or you know, people stepping up with the action, yeah, yeah, is is sort of a you know, drawing from that experience.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, well, you know, we need to get the money to action change.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can stand on a podium all you like, but and it may be different now, but when I was um uh at the time we founded it, um the amount of philanthropic money that was actually reaching women was very small, you know, and there were things like um homelessness or sport or something, and the donors assumed when they gave money that it reached men and women equally, but it didn't.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so what we've developed within the giving community is an awareness of is the project that we're supporting financially um created in such a way that it will benefit women or will reach women as well as men.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you're right.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Most people, most people giving money assume it goes to both, but clearly that's not the case.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: So tell me a little bit about just um as a mother and a grandmother, what you've learned and how you see the next generation thriving.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's going to be easier for women, for your children, for your grand, for your daughters, your granddaughters?
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's going to be easier for my grandsons and my granddaughters, and particularly my granddaughter.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there's still a very, very long way to go.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think um they are lucky in education that they have access to and everything.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing that makes me do things other than powerlessness is waste.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I just I just can't come to accept that 50% of the populations all around the world, and particularly in the underdeveloped world, are um are not developed to their full capacity.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine what the world would be like if it just doubled in its resources and ability?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you see the next generation as having it a bit easier, but still with a lot of challenges up ahead.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see those challenges predominantly in the gender space or on many fronts?
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's going to be a lot of changes because of climate and uh everything.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think what is absolutely essential is the that 50% of the world population that is underdeveloped should be empowered to uh give their talents and their intelligence and their priorities to solve the world's problems.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, we're global citizens, is what you're saying, that we are part of a global infrastructure.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: We need to see ourselves and what we do in that context.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think we need to be everywhere.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I think that is everywhere.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's that's a a wonderful note to um to finish on with this interview.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've loved chatting to you.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're inspiring to lots of women and men.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And just finally, I'd like to ask you what you're reading at the moment.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that you're reading that um that you'd like to recommend to our listeners?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've just read um uh Shaggy Bain, you've won the prize, and it is so depressing, but it is such a beautiful book.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's got very good, very good reviews and obviously won the prize.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and just finally, I wanted to ask you what you've learned on life's journey that you'd like to leave our listeners thinking about.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's a bit corny, but it's just hug your loved ones.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really um, really just again, talking about the importance of family.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_00: Something that I know that you value enormously.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for joining us on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on board and to chat to you and wishing you and your family all the best.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: Same to you.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Eve.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: Love dear.