Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / DELPHI MURDER SUSPECT'S COLD 8 WORDS TO WIFE: "I DID IT. I KILLED ABBY & LIBBY”

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DELPHI MURDER SUSPECT'S COLD 8 WORDS TO WIFE: "I DID IT. I KILLED ABBY & LIBBY” · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: The Delphi murders suspects called eight words to his wife.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I did it.
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: I killed Abby and Libby. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: We also know by three o'clock nobody's hearing them. They're
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: nobody's screaming, nobody's running, nobody's calling on their phones. Again,
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: this was a very fast deal, and y'all, here's the reality.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Most children that are going to be murdered or murdered
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: in the first three hours.
• 0:43
  Speaker 4: As the defense continues to make their case, Judge Francis
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: Gaull makes a decision, infuriating the families of Libby German
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: and Abby Williams. The defense admitting into evidence nearly two
• 0:53
  Speaker 4: hours of videos of Richard Allen filmed during his thirteen
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: months of suicide watch and solitary confinement, but the rules
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: that due to the explicit scenes contained in some of
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: the videos, only the jury will be able to see
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: the videos. Defense attorney Brad Rossi thanks Judge gulf for
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: her decision, saying, quote, out of respect for various parties,
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: including my client and his dignity, this is the most
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: professional way of dealing with.
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: This his dignity. What about Abby and Libby's dignity? Portrayed
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: on a big screen in the courtroom, one of them
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: button naked, mortal wounds, slashes to their throat, slash upon
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: slash to the girl's throat, them and death. Now I'm
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: supposed to be worried about Richard Allen's so called dignity,
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: a man that confessed sixty one plus times.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: He even said, why won't anybody believe me? I did it?
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: Now the defense is okay, ignore all the sixty one
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: confessions because he was clearly in the midst of a
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: psychotic break. Well, today I will bring on a panel
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: of experts that will show you he was not in
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: the middle of a psychotic break from everything ranging from
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: psychoanalysis to the cold hard facts. Even one of the
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: shrinks that was seeing him nearly every.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Day says he faked it. What's happening in the courtroom
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: a lot.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: But also tonight we delve into attacks on the victims' families.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: I first found out about this a while back. Susan
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: and Hendricks and I discussed it at the courthouse. I
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: then went on a fact finding mission and found the
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: attacks on the victims' families, even claiming, believe it or not,
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: that the victim sister Kelsey, is the quote real killer's evil.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: It's hateful, it's vile.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Many people ben iver backwards to defend this declaim.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: It's not happening.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: It is happening, and I'm going to play it for you.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: But first to what is most important, not what a
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: bunch of YouTubers are saying online. Let's talk about what's
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: happening in the court of law.
• 3:24
  Speaker 5: Listen as videos of Richard Allen are played for the jury,
• 3:27
  Speaker 5: Several jurors take special note of video number seven and
• 3:31
  Speaker 5: frown at what they are watching. One juror takes notes,
• 3:34
  Speaker 5: writes something on his notepad, and shows it to the
• 3:36
  Speaker 5: juror next to him. During video number nine, multiple jurors
• 3:39
  Speaker 5: look toward Richard Allen. At one point during video number ten,
• 3:43
  Speaker 5: defense attorney Jennifer Auger appears deeply concerned, ultimately holding her
• 3:48
  Speaker 5: head in her hand and covering her mouth. Only the
• 3:51
  Speaker 5: jury can see the videos, and members of the gallery
• 3:54
  Speaker 5: can only watch the reactions of the jury and imagine
• 3:57
  Speaker 5: what they are watching.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: Straight out to Susan Henry, who has not missed a
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: day of testimony, Susan, thank you for being with us,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Susan investigative reporter and the author of Down the Hill,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi, which is
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: an amazing work. Susan, I've really learned a lot from that, Susan.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: I want to talk about what happened in the courtroom.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: The video is shown only to the jury and the defense.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: I noticed the.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: State never looked away or acted disgusted, but the defense
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: did throughout very exaggerated pantomiming. They can say anything out loud,
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: looking away, rolling their eyes, acting as if they were very,
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: very upset. Two of the jurors, one wrote something and
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: showed it to the other jurors. Some of them looked away.
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I know you can see the video, but let me
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: ask you a very narrow and specific question, Susan Hendrix.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: The question is what is on the video.
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: Allen in his cell at Westville Prison.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: And what do you believe is the reason that a
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: couple of jurors looked away.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: One juror took a note and showed it to another jurar.
• 5:14
  Speaker 7: Because of his treatment by the guard, being dragged at
• 5:17
  Speaker 7: one point. He is constantly on camera twenty four to
• 5:21
  Speaker 7: seven camcorder footage as well being dragged in the hallways
• 5:26
  Speaker 7: just against his will.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: Okay, I've got a question, and let me throw this
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: to Bill Daily very quickly.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Bill Daily, no media, no one in the well could
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: see the video.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: When a defendant tries to bite you or spit on you,
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: could you explain what is a spit mask?
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Well, shouldn't ask.
• 5:53
  Speaker 8: Is probably something people may have seen in the movies
• 5:55
  Speaker 8: where it goes over someone's face to prevents them from
• 5:58
  Speaker 8: either biting someone sitting them, so it covers their face
• 6:02
  Speaker 8: in a very dramatic fashion, kind of like a Halloween.
• 6:04
  Speaker 9: Mess type of affair.
• 6:07
  Speaker 8: You know, I does who say, Nancy.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Talking about gitting typically black a hood put over a
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: suspect's face when he or she bites or spits on
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: the officer. Is that correct?
• 6:21
  Speaker 8: That is correct, Nancy, And I think you know, some
• 6:23
  Speaker 8: of the things we're talking about here. Reaction by the
• 6:26
  Speaker 8: jury is also probably from people who, because of their backgrounds,
• 6:29
  Speaker 8: have never been or seen inside of a prison, and
• 6:32
  Speaker 8: particularly a maximum security prison. So I probably think just
• 6:35
  Speaker 8: some of the kind of the ambiance of what that
• 6:38
  Speaker 8: what that is is quite takes him back quite a bit. Nonetheless,
• 6:43
  Speaker 8: how he was being agree by the by the prison guards,
• 6:46
  Speaker 8: and and again, you know, we have to go into
• 6:48
  Speaker 8: kind of the frame of mind both protect the person,
• 6:51
  Speaker 8: guards protecting themselves, protecting him from himself. Things they have
• 6:55
  Speaker 8: to do to kind of clean him and feed him
• 6:57
  Speaker 8: are all things that may be quite compelling.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: To Bill Daily, it's always shocking for a civilian.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: It's shocking for me. I don't like when a spit
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: mask is used.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: But to you, Cheryl McCollum is joining me, forensics expert,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: star of Zone seven, founder and director of the Cold
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Case Research Institute. Cheryl, I don't like a spit mask
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: at all. I've never none of it to be used
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: on any of the defendants that I prosecuted. However, I
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: have seen a cop who was bitten and bleeding then
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: had to go to the hospital to get tested for
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: HIV from everything because he was bitten by a defendant,
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: a suspect, a murder suspect. I've seen cops with globs
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: of spit on their uniform. I've seen them spit in
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: the face, you know what. I don't like a spit mask,
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: but I understand why some.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: Police use them.
• 7:58
  Speaker 10: I'm gonna tell you straight up, I love him in
• 8:00
  Speaker 10: years why it is the least aggressive thing they can
• 8:03
  Speaker 10: do to stop that attack.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: When you talk about being you know, bit.
• 8:09
  Speaker 10: And you talk about somebody spitting on you, you don't
• 8:12
  Speaker 10: know what disease they may have. You don't know you
• 8:15
  Speaker 10: know what level they're going to go as far as
• 8:17
  Speaker 10: upping this advancement towards you law enforcement, using a spit
• 8:22
  Speaker 10: mask does not hurt the person and stop the threat
• 8:27
  Speaker 10: of further attack on that officer joining me.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Right now is the star of a YouTube channel, Gray Hughes.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: Great?
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: What is the name of your YouTube channel? Is it
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: Gray Hughes Investigates?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Its great?
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Let me ask you a few cross examination questions very quickly.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: You refer to an incident back in twenty fifteen when
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: police were called to his home for a domestic dispute
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: as it is euphemistically called Grey Hughes since the time,
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: and Susan Hendricks please jump in if you know differently,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: or anyone on the panel, please. Since Richard Allen has
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: been behind bars for the murders of Abby and Libby,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: have there been formal complaints of brutality on Richard Allen
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: baitings anything like that, strangulations, punches to the stomach, anything anything.
• 9:20
  Speaker 11: Well, I this is what I'm going to say is
• 9:22
  Speaker 11: that when Richard Allen was in prison just before the confessions,
• 9:27
  Speaker 11: everything was great. He was reading, he was exercising, and
• 9:33
  Speaker 11: he was studying Bible, and he became religious and he
• 9:37
  Speaker 11: wanted to get off his chest that he wanted to
• 9:42
  Speaker 11: confess that he killed having Libby, and so he confessed
• 9:45
  Speaker 11: to his wife. And then right after that his attorney
• 9:49
  Speaker 11: sat up from his wife Kathy, and amazingly, he became
• 9:54
  Speaker 11: absolutely crazy, drooling all over his shirt, eating paper, et ce.
• 10:00
  Speaker 11: And there were probably incidents after that in prison. I
• 10:03
  Speaker 11: guess through testimony has showed that he's treaded or in
• 10:07
  Speaker 11: those videos that he tread to ship on the officers.
• 10:10
  Speaker 11: That's why he puts bags on it. But I don't
• 10:12
  Speaker 11: really know of any physical moments in while he's in prison.
• 10:19
  Speaker 11: But I think this is all absolutely contrived and created
• 10:24
  Speaker 11: by the SENSE team along with Richard Allen. His wife.
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: Richard Allen wanted to hey, you know what, Gray Hughes,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I've been reading a lot and one guy online He's
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: named Cajun dvl dog Dawg, and he says, to your point,
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: no human interaction, and most of Allen's detainment he had
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: a guard and or inmate companion assigned him. Twenty four
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: to seven, he was given an iPad, broke it, received
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: another one. How many inmates get that?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Does? Did he have an iPad? Rex Huwerman. He goes
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: on to.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Say, what about the fact Alan would only act out
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: when people were watching, but then on camera he would
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: refuse three meals because he knew if he refused four
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: it had to be reported. I think what happens is
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Susan Hendrix, doesn't he refuse four, because once you refuse
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: four meals in a row, it gets reported as inmate
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: refusing to eat.
• 11:25
  Speaker 6: Exactly he was playing the system.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Okay, now back to my and I'm going to follow
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: up with you Gray Hughes, about whether this is all
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: uh Se Cannery a fake or not. But I want
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: to get back to the question because I'm very concerned
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: about claims that the video that was shown to the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: jury showed barbaric treatment was a spitmask used. Maybe you've
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: got to ask yourself why and why at that moment
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: was he picked up and carried Was it because he
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: wouldn't walk. Was it because he didn't want to go
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: to court? Was it because he didn't want to go
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: to some sort of evaluation and he had to go
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: but refused to get up and walk. So again I'd
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: like a yes no answer, Susan Hendrix or Gray Hughes.
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Do you know of any complaint filed by the defense
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: about brutality behind bars? That is a very simple yes.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: No Susan Hendricks No, okay?
• 12:31
  Speaker 11: Also what Gray, I didn't say no. Also, I haven't
• 12:34
  Speaker 11: heard that at all.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: Let me go to veteran trial lawyer Philip Debay. He
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: is an LA County public defender. My sworn enemies that said.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: He is in court every day of his life when
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: he's not here with us trying cases.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: He knows his way around the courtroom.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Philip Debay, take off your defense hat just one moment, Okay.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Can you tell me with a straight face, if Richard
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: Allen had ever been beaten, had a bruise, was slapped
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: in the face, punched in the stomach, suffocated, strangled, electrocuted, waterboarded,
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: if you want to tell me, the defense would not
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: have filed a complaint and we would not be hearing
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: about it.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: In opening statements and more. Without a question.
• 13:30
  Speaker 12: The first thing that we do is Defense Council is
• 13:33
  Speaker 12: we have an obligation to protect our clients, not only
• 13:36
  Speaker 12: legally but holistically. If we get word that anything is
• 13:40
  Speaker 12: happening to our clients behind bars, we are duty bound
• 13:43
  Speaker 12: to bring it to the court's attention, to the warden
• 13:47
  Speaker 12: of the jail facility, and to get the court to
• 13:50
  Speaker 12: make an order to protect the inmate. And absent any
• 13:55
  Speaker 12: type of allegation, we have to assume that jail officials
• 13:58
  Speaker 12: are doing their job. I can tell you, in addition
• 14:01
  Speaker 12: to being in court everyday, Nancy, I am also in
• 14:03
  Speaker 12: the lockups. Those lockups are lit up with cameras everywhere
• 14:09
  Speaker 12: they are in the jail cells, they are in the halls.
• 14:12
  Speaker 11: There is a.
• 14:12
  Speaker 12: Special unit that looks like mission control where they have
• 14:16
  Speaker 12: several sheriff deputies manning all the cameras. They can see
• 14:19
  Speaker 12: in real time everything that is happening in the halls
• 14:22
  Speaker 12: and in each individual jail cell. And I can assure you,
• 14:27
  Speaker 12: without even meeting the people who worked at this facility
• 14:30
  Speaker 12: that if they saw anything untoward being perpetrated against any
• 14:34
  Speaker 12: inmate by their own staff, it would have gone to
• 14:37
  Speaker 12: internal affairs and people would be out on disciplinary leave
• 14:40
  Speaker 12: pending a thorough investigation.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Crime Stores with Nancy Grace.
• 14:54
  Speaker 13: During the second round of video showings for the jury, again,
• 14:57
  Speaker 13: only the jury can see the videos of Richard Allen
• 14:59
  Speaker 13: while he being held at Westfield Correctional Facility. During the
• 15:02
  Speaker 13: plane of video thirteen, Attorney Baldwin turns away shaking his head.
• 15:07
  Speaker 13: During video fourteen, three jurors sit uncomfortably while defense attorney
• 15:12
  Speaker 13: Auger is seen looking away. Video number fifteen is thirty
• 15:16
  Speaker 13: four minutes long, and multiple jurors are seen taking notes.
• 15:20
  Speaker 13: Of the fifteen videos, the defense shows the jury for
• 15:23
  Speaker 13: containing nudity, while others show Richard Allen being transported to
• 15:28
  Speaker 13: receive medical care. None of the videos shown in court
• 15:31
  Speaker 13: have audio joining us.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: In all star panels straight out to Susan Hendricks joining us.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: She's been in the courtroom throughout the trial, Susan, thank
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: you for being with us. I noticed that the people
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: in the courtroom that can see the video the ones
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: that are reacting the most of the defense lawyers.
• 15:48
  Speaker 7: Exactly exactly with Jennifer Auger looking horrified and mind you.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Discovery was given.
• 15:54
  Speaker 7: To Richard Allen on April third, and I believe after
• 15:58
  Speaker 7: that is when he started to really laid on and pretend,
• 16:01
  Speaker 7: in my opinion, to be crazy.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So this video, I understand why the victims family is
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: so upset. Joining me in addition to doctor Bethany Marshall
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: is Professor of Forensics Forensics at Jacksonville State University, author
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and Star Body
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: Bags with Joe Scott Morgan, a hit podcast.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: For my purposes, I.
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Want you to know that he is a death investigator
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: and he has investigated thousands, probably ever ten thousand death scenes,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: be the suicide, accident, homicide, voluntary, you name it. Joe Scott,
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I'm coming to you on this question because of all
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: the indignities that you've seen on victims. And I remember
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: one of the last cases I tried, not the last,
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: but one of the last.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: It was a serial killer.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: We can only get him on one case, and she
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: was a Jane Doe, which, as you know, greatly handicapped
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: my case because I didn't know anything about her, where
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: she had been, she fraternized with nothing. I had one shot,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: one shot, and I remember at the end of the trial,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: darkened courtroom, doing a slideshow and I had to put
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the victim up on a screen. I also had to
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: put an autopsy photo up on the screen where her
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: skin was pulled back from her head so you could
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: see subdural hemorrhaging.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: I felt sick because I had to show these photos
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: of my dead victim.
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: Now Here everybody seen photos of Abby and Libby. One
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: of them Libby naked with their throats slashed open. One
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: of them crying, her tears diluted with blood, laying out
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a cold, cold creek, sigh area.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: No wonder. The victim's family is angry.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Because we are protecting the dignity of Richard Allen while
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: he's naked and masturbating.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: We don't want anybody to see that. But it's okay
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: to show these girls.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, explain these photos, show Scott what was published
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: about these girls.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And it had to be. It had to be.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: I'm not seeing the States wrong because that is the
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: truth of the crimes on Abby and Libby.
• 18:32
  Speaker 9: Yeah, here lay the evidence before you, literally and figuratively.
• 18:37
  Speaker 9: I can't take them out there to that moment in time,
• 18:40
  Speaker 9: but you can recreate it in this environment and let
• 18:43
  Speaker 9: them see what was wrought upon these, you know, these
• 18:47
  Speaker 9: two little angels in this particular circumstance. But you know,
• 18:52
  Speaker 9: I've been given some thought to this, Nancy, And I
• 18:54
  Speaker 9: was really thinking just a few moments ago, why in
• 18:58
  Speaker 9: the world people begin to turn away, you know, when
• 19:02
  Speaker 9: they're bearing witness to what had happened or what was
• 19:07
  Speaker 9: going on in that videography, and what is it that
• 19:11
  Speaker 9: would be so shocking to them? Remember what ROSSI said,
• 19:14
  Speaker 9: who I believe is one of the defense attorneys at
• 19:16
  Speaker 9: one point in time with Alan. He made mention that,
• 19:22
  Speaker 9: you know, Allan was involved in some pretty repugnant stuff
• 19:27
  Speaker 9: in jail, and I don't know if you want to
• 19:29
  Speaker 9: get on this road, but you know he was engaging
• 19:32
  Speaker 9: in the eating of his own waste, which you know,
• 19:36
  Speaker 9: to me, you know, they want to talk about things like,
• 19:39
  Speaker 9: you know, these red herrings, you know, like odinism and
• 19:41
  Speaker 9: all these sorts of things. When you begin to examine
• 19:44
  Speaker 9: what's going on with this guy to what links he'll
• 19:47
  Speaker 9: engage in these behaviors to demonstrate that he's I don't know,
• 19:51
  Speaker 9: matt as a hatter perhaps, But you know, this is
• 19:54
  Speaker 9: a condition called corpor phasia or corporophelia, and we've seen
• 19:58
  Speaker 9: this with people that perpetrate these kind of sadistic sex crimes.
• 20:03
  Speaker 9: He's also stated in one of his comments that he
• 20:06
  Speaker 9: was a sex addict. You know, immediately when I heard
• 20:10
  Speaker 9: all of this, Nancy, I was thinking, this takes me
• 20:13
  Speaker 9: back in time to a case that's one of the
• 20:16
  Speaker 9: most notorious, which involves Albert Fish who loved killing children
• 20:21
  Speaker 9: and he mutilated children. He was also into corporate filia
• 20:24
  Speaker 9: and corporate phasia as well. And I really wonder if
• 20:27
  Speaker 9: this is a reflection of what you're seeing, and he'll
• 20:29
  Speaker 9: remember he no longer has access to individuals that he
• 20:34
  Speaker 9: can abuse, but within this environment part of sexual fantasy,
• 20:38
  Speaker 9: with corporate failure or corpora phasia, he has access to this.
• 20:42
  Speaker 9: He's acting out in this environment, Nancy, joining me.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: As I mentioned earlier, renowned psychoanalyst out of the LA jurisdiction,
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: doctor Bethany Marshall. Many people are claiming he became imbalanced
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: from being in solitary, which by the way, was for
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: his own That's right. You want to tell me those
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: inmates wouldn't have trying to tear him apart if they
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: found out. Ha's the guy chars with killing Abby and
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Libby that's why he's in solitary.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: But have you ever seen.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: People become overwrought with guilt at what they've done?
• 21:18
  Speaker 6: Nancy, he's doing something called malingering. He's making up psychosis.
• 21:24
  Speaker 6: And the reason I can tell is that he was
• 21:27
  Speaker 6: admitted with THEE or he was incarcerated with the diagnosis
• 21:31
  Speaker 6: of depression and anxiety. He was probably depressed and anxious
• 21:34
  Speaker 6: because he'd been caught. Then they diagnosed him with a
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: brief psychotic episode, which is less than a month, but
• 21:40
  Speaker 6: the confessions lasted way longer than a month. Also, the
• 21:44
  Speaker 6: psychologist says that his confessions are very concise, and what
• 21:49
  Speaker 6: that means is that he had a clear storyline that
• 21:52
  Speaker 6: he repeated to his wife again and again. Now, if
• 21:56
  Speaker 6: he was psychotic when he was making those confessions, Lage
• 22:00
  Speaker 6: would be rambling, bizarre, incoherent, and with something that we
• 22:05
  Speaker 6: call loose associations. And loose association is I saw buttercups
• 22:09
  Speaker 6: and because of.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: That the sun is shining.
• 22:11
  Speaker 6: Well, the two could be kind of linked, kind of,
• 22:15
  Speaker 6: but the sun shining has very little to do with
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: the fact that the person saw buttercups, so he would
• 22:20
  Speaker 6: have that same kind of a weird presentation in terms
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: of talking about the crime. I've read his confessions, Nancy.
• 22:27
  Speaker 6: He's very clear he's trying to convince his wife that
• 22:30
  Speaker 6: he did do this, and all of this like rolling
• 22:32
  Speaker 6: on the ground and eating his specs and you know,
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: flushing his Bible down the toilet. I call that dramatics, hysteria,
• 22:40
  Speaker 6: being a drama queen just so.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: That he can look like he's crazy.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: There is a problem with one of the state's witnesses,
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: the shrink that was interacting with him almost every day.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: We now find out it was a true crime sleuth. Okay,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: does that matter? No, But it does if she sowed
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: an interest in the Delphi case, because it's going to
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: be argued in closing arguments by the defense that she
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: had already formed an opinion that her opinion was somehow
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: slanted because of her own investigation. We'll see what happens
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: with that. Let's talk about Brad Weber.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 23:20
  Speaker 5: Officer Christopher Gutti of the Hammond Police Department tells the
• 23:24
  Speaker 5: jury about the importance of interviewing witnesses and suspects, and
• 23:27
  Speaker 5: when he is asked about interviewing Brad Weber, Guti doesn't
• 23:31
  Speaker 5: remember much Brad Weber says he arrives home around two
• 23:34
  Speaker 5: thirty PM the afternoon, Abby and Libby vanish. He lives
• 23:38
  Speaker 5: in the area and is driving a white van. In
• 23:40
  Speaker 5: one of his confessions, Richard Allen talks of being spooked
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: by a white van.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: Says in Henricks, what's the significance of the white van?
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: It is huge.
• 23:49
  Speaker 7: Brad Weber gets off of work at two o four,
• 23:51
  Speaker 7: get getting him home around that time, around two thirty
• 23:54
  Speaker 7: That is when, in his own words, Richard Allen said
• 23:57
  Speaker 7: he was interrupted by a van. To me, that puts
• 24:01
  Speaker 7: the timeline that puts him there something only the murderer
• 24:04
  Speaker 7: would know.
• 24:04
  Speaker 14: I think it's huge.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Speaking of Brad Weber, a lot of sleuths online are
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: pointing to him as a potential suspect.
• 24:13
  Speaker 14: Listen, trying to create doubt about the unspent round found
• 24:17
  Speaker 14: between Liby and Abbey, the defense asked about Brad Weber
• 24:21
  Speaker 14: owning a six hour gun, the same type gun Richard
• 24:24
  Speaker 14: Allen owns, which prosecutors use to link him to the
• 24:28
  Speaker 14: murders with the unspent round. Mullen tells the jury that
• 24:31
  Speaker 14: Weber's gun was collected and tested and it isn't a
• 24:35
  Speaker 14: match for the unspent round just got Morgan.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: Let me go to you on this.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: A bullet, even if it is not fire from the gun,
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: if it's cycled through, like somebody racks the gun but
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: doesn't shoot it, that gun leaves a specific indentation on
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: the cartridge and on the bullet.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: The bullet found near Abby and Libby's.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Body is absolutely matched back to Richard Allen brad Weber right.
• 25:02
  Speaker 9: And the way that works. I have a dummy gun
• 25:05
  Speaker 9: here that we use at Jack State, but right here
• 25:07
  Speaker 9: is the ejection port Nancy. So if you imagine the
• 25:11
  Speaker 9: slide going back and ejecting the round out, it'll go
• 25:14
  Speaker 9: up into the right and rear. They're a little what
• 25:18
  Speaker 9: other referred to astrations on the caseinge itself. The casing
• 25:22
  Speaker 9: is kind of a soft brass. So you have ejector
• 25:26
  Speaker 9: marks and you have an extractor marks. And because it's
• 25:30
  Speaker 9: metal and metal, it is unique to that weapon. Now
• 25:33
  Speaker 9: it's not as unique as rifling marks, but for ejector marks,
• 25:37
  Speaker 9: it is very specific.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: And Gray Hughes joining me from Gray Hughes Investigates on YouTube. Gray,
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: let me be clear, brad Weber's gun did not match
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: the bullet found near the victims' bodies.
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: Is that correct?
• 25:53
  Speaker 11: Yes, I believe they were. It couldn't be excluded, but
• 25:57
  Speaker 11: it didn't match. You know where Richard Allen actually matched personally.
• 26:02
  Speaker 11: I believe he is the bridge guy. I can work
• 26:08
  Speaker 11: through the timeline and he's trapped in. On the thirteenth,
• 26:11
  Speaker 11: girls were killed on the fourteenth, they found the bodies.
• 26:14
  Speaker 11: On the fifteenth they put the picture of the bridge
• 26:18
  Speaker 11: guy in the paper. The very next day, to sixteenth,
• 26:20
  Speaker 11: he calls the tip line. He probably saw himself in
• 26:24
  Speaker 11: the in the papers, called the tip line. They asked
• 26:27
  Speaker 11: to talk to that person to see what they may
• 26:28
  Speaker 11: have seen, and then Van Doolin talked to him two
• 26:31
  Speaker 11: days later on the eighteenth. Then he tells them that
• 26:35
  Speaker 11: he was there from one thirty to three thirty, and
• 26:39
  Speaker 11: there's evidence that his card at one twenty seven drives
• 26:42
  Speaker 11: by the Hoosier Harvestore black vehicle matching his description with
• 26:46
  Speaker 11: the same rims and everything, drives by the Hoosier Harvestore
• 26:48
  Speaker 11: coming from the east to the west. And just after
• 26:52
  Speaker 11: that he says he went through the Freedom Bridge a
• 26:55
  Speaker 11: passed three girls. Then when they interviewed the three, there
• 26:59
  Speaker 11: was three girls came for it and they saw him.
• 27:02
  Speaker 11: So those three girls saw him and he saw them.
• 27:04
  Speaker 11: That makes that truth that that's him coming in right there.
• 27:08
  Speaker 11: Then it takes eleven minutes to walk to the bridge,
• 27:11
  Speaker 11: and about one thirty five is when he passed those girls,
• 27:14
  Speaker 11: so eleven minutes would be one forty six. Bessy Blair
• 27:17
  Speaker 11: gets out of her car at the parking area at
• 27:19
  Speaker 11: one forty seven, walks down the trail. Richard Allen could
• 27:23
  Speaker 11: not have passed her because there wouldn't be time. It
• 27:25
  Speaker 11: takes six minutes to get back there. She goes to
• 27:27
  Speaker 11: the bridge and he's standing on platform one, exactly where
• 27:31
  Speaker 11: Richard Allen said he was standing when he went to
• 27:33
  Speaker 11: the bridge.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: You know what, the way you lay that out, Gray
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: is amazing. Cheryl McCollum, there's more to exclude Weber.
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: Listen the defense trying to add more questions about Brad
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: Weber into Steve Mullen's time on the stand, and Mullen
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: admits there are some inconsistencies in what he has said
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: about what he was doing after work the day in question. However,
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: on cross examination, Steve Mullen points out phone records back
• 27:59
  Speaker 4: up Weber's again of driving straight home after work and
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: arriving in his white van around two thirty pm the
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: afternoon Libby and Abbey were killed.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: I learned in the courtroom at Delphi that attacks have
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: been made, brutal, vicious attacks on Abby and Libby's family.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I hated to give the.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Names of the YouTubers attacking them because I felt it
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: would only give them more attention, But under much attack,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: I will now do so.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 28:30
  Speaker 15: Revelations from the State of Indiana's case against Rick Allen
• 28:34
  Speaker 15: have thus far exposed the collusion, incompetence and utter fraud
• 28:39
  Speaker 15: that has taken place regarding the murders of fourteen year
• 28:42
  Speaker 15: old Liberty Roseland German and thirteen year old Abigail Joyce
• 28:46
  Speaker 15: Williams in February twenty seventeen.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: That is from YouTube, from a program purporting to be
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: True Crime Design and more.
• 28:56
  Speaker 15: The implications of such revelations are nothing new to me
• 29:00
  Speaker 15: or my subscribers, but merely confirm our beliefs and suspicions
• 29:04
  Speaker 15: as to what happened to Abby and Libby.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Again from True Crime Design. They claim to know what
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: really happened here.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: They clang that the shot.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: All the girls on the bridge has been faked and
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: they implicate sister Kelsey.
• 29:24
  Speaker 15: Listen, this image is not real, nor is it the
• 29:27
  Speaker 15: last photograph of Abigail, just moments before the killer approached.
• 29:32
  Speaker 15: It first appeared on Facebook, not through law enforcement. It
• 29:35
  Speaker 15: is an edited combination of this authentic photograph of Abby
• 29:39
  Speaker 15: playing softball in a hotel parking lot and the bridge
• 29:43
  Speaker 15: guy image itself, which is a template of sorts.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Susan Hendricks is joining me, investigative reporter and author of
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Down the Hill, My descent into the double murder in Delphi.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: You have heard this and so many more attacks on
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the victims' families. I know what it feels like to
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: be the tangential victim of murder.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: When the one you love the most most is murdered.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: How is this affecting the family that they are being
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: accused Kelsey specifically, it's being mentioned critically involved in the
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: murder of her sister.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: It's hard to.
• 30:21
  Speaker 7: Even fathom that it happens, but it doesn't. Becky Patty
• 30:24
  Speaker 7: sees this.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: She knows it.
• 30:26
  Speaker 7: You're hurtful, and this person, by the way, showed up
• 30:29
  Speaker 7: at the July hearing at the end of July. It's disgusting.
• 30:33
  Speaker 7: They have no moral compass. It's pathetic and the family
• 30:37
  Speaker 7: sees it and it hurts them even more.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: If that's possible, and more from true crime design.
• 30:42
  Speaker 15: I believe she led the girls to their assailants, who attacked, subdued,
• 30:46
  Speaker 15: and abducted them before eventually killing them at the scene
• 30:50
  Speaker 15: by the creek. I also believe, based on physical evidence
• 30:54
  Speaker 15: at the crime scene, that this was in fact a
• 30:57
  Speaker 15: ritualistic killing, a blood offering to the gods or demonic
• 31:01
  Speaker 15: entities that the people of Delphi worship.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I've got to bring in you're hearing true crime design
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: and they're a lot more, by the way, other than
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: true crime design.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: Joining me is a renowned defense attorney out of La
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: Philip Dubay Dubai.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: You get one.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: Person on the jury to hear some of these crackpot
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: conspiracy theories.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, did you hear the last one?
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Debay a blood offering to the gods or demonic entities
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: that the people of Delphi worship.
• 31:44
  Speaker 12: We have to trust that jurors do the right thing
• 31:46
  Speaker 12: and they follow the court's orders, and they're not going
• 31:48
  Speaker 12: to follow social media. They're not going to read the news.
• 31:50
  Speaker 12: They're not going to talk about the case to outsiders.
• 31:53
  Speaker 11: Now.
• 31:54
  Speaker 12: Having said that, it does not in any way diminish
• 31:57
  Speaker 12: the effect that this YouTube channel is having on the
• 31:59
  Speaker 12: big AND's families. I know plenty of lawyers out here
• 32:03
  Speaker 12: and across this country who'd be chomping at the bit
• 32:06
  Speaker 12: to urge her to get her check book out. Because
• 32:08
  Speaker 12: you start blaming the sister for this horrific criminal act,
• 32:12
  Speaker 12: She's going to find herself behind the v in a
• 32:15
  Speaker 12: civil court road.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Oh and there's more, Philip Dubey, you know what you
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: don't want on the jury is one conspiracy nut. I
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: looked at them, I watched their behavior. It's really hard
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: to judge a book by its cover. I tried to
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: discern what I could like I would during a regular
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: my own trial. Listen to this, Philip, I hope you're
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: sitting down.
• 32:37
  Speaker 15: Abigail and Liberty were ceremoniously killed in front of an
• 32:41
  Speaker 15: audience in the early morning hours of February fourteenth. The
• 32:45
  Speaker 15: dubious search for the victims on the night of the
• 32:47
  Speaker 15: thirteenth is a cover for the ritual.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: That clip from True Crime design Let me go to
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Bill Daley, joining US former FBI investigator and forensic photography
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: and security expert, repeat be I investigator, Bill, why is it?
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And I say this all the time.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Do people choose to leap to zany conspiracy theories as
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: opposed to looking at the facts, the.
• 33:16
  Speaker 8: Facts, And as Joe Friday says, it's just a facts, man,
• 33:20
  Speaker 8: just the facts, and these are not the facts. I mean,
• 33:22
  Speaker 8: there is no indication that there were any other stirred
• 33:26
  Speaker 8: up ground around the victim's bodies. There was no indication
• 33:29
  Speaker 8: that there was anything like this that went on according
• 33:32
  Speaker 8: to police reports. I mean, are people doing this for
• 33:35
  Speaker 8: some self serving publicity to get more likes on the
• 33:38
  Speaker 8: channel or whatever the indication is. But this is far
• 33:42
  Speaker 8: from the facts that we've heard, both in the case
• 33:44
  Speaker 8: the facts that we've discussed here on the program and
• 33:47
  Speaker 8: you laid out earlier along with some other guests. This
• 33:50
  Speaker 8: is far afield from any of that. So what their
• 33:53
  Speaker 8: true intention is except notoriety publicity, it's hard to say.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: I hate to see thetim's family suffering even more than
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: they already have. Susan Hendrix, take a listen to this.
• 34:05
  Speaker 15: You see, this was a sacrificial double murder committed in
• 34:09
  Speaker 15: part by the families of the decease and the prominent
• 34:12
  Speaker 15: members of their community.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: That clip from True Crime Design, and there the narrator
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: is roping in not just Kelsey, but the whole family.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Now listen to this, Susan, this is the part that
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: got you and I so upset.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Listen.
• 34:28
  Speaker 15: In addition to monetary rewards, fame and sympathy were garnered
• 34:32
  Speaker 15: and exploited by the family of Liberty German, especially her
• 34:36
  Speaker 15: big sister Kelsey, to no end. The family's relentless fundraising
• 34:41
  Speaker 15: and shameless media tour post murders.
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: That's not true. That's not true.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: You are hearing sound from True Crime Design on YouTube.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: The family is devastated, they're not doing press tours that.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: That's not true.
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: None of it is.
• 35:00
  Speaker 7: If Kelsey could go back in time and not drop
• 35:03
  Speaker 7: her sister off on the thirteenth, she would have infuriates
• 35:07
  Speaker 7: me and answer, I'm sorry it is. It's pathetic and disgusting,
• 35:10
  Speaker 7: and I feel for the families like they're not going
• 35:12
  Speaker 7: through enough. They have the Abbey and Libby Memorial Park
• 35:16
  Speaker 7: in the girl's name. None of this is true, not
• 35:19
  Speaker 7: an I vote. That's not the biggest oxymoron True Prime.
• 35:23
  Speaker 7: None of what they.
• 35:23
  Speaker 11: Say is true.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: Now I want to talk about another another podcast.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: This is called The Murder Shape. Listen.
• 35:32
  Speaker 16: We were surprised at how much they went after Libby's family.
• 35:36
  Speaker 16: These are, after all, family members who have been grieving
• 35:38
  Speaker 16: the loss of their fourteen year old sister, granddaughter, and
• 35:42
  Speaker 16: daughter since twenty seventeen. For Sadlowski, the anger towards Libby's
• 35:46
  Speaker 16: family goes deep. In a chat with Parsons and Miller
• 35:49
  Speaker 16: on January fifth, twenty twenty four, at one thirty three pm,
• 35:53
  Speaker 16: she wrote quote, I'm honestly so grossed out with the
• 35:57
  Speaker 16: virtue signaling in del fine and borderline resenting the victim families.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I don't understand this. Who could resent the victim's family, Susan.
• 36:10
  Speaker 7: I'll say, you can't make them back down, Becky Patty
• 36:13
  Speaker 7: if you listen further, they say it bothers me to
• 36:16
  Speaker 7: see their pictures over and over again, and Becky Patty
• 36:18
  Speaker 7: posted on Facebook, I hope I'm bothering you because they
• 36:21
  Speaker 7: will not stop there there every single day in court,
• 36:24
  Speaker 7: they are not letting these evil people win.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what, You're absolutely right, Susan Hendrix. Listen
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: to more.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: This is the host of the Murder Sheet discussing this
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: very issue.
• 36:34
  Speaker 16: She labeled anyone posting quote smiling, happy photos of the
• 36:38
  Speaker 16: victims before they died as quote so irritating end quote
• 36:44
  Speaker 16: in a pine that it was simply leverage.
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: Gray Ughes joining me from the Gray Hughes investigates on YouTube.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: You were hearing this sort of discussion on the murder Sheet.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: Why are people.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Angry about photos of the girls in life, smiling and happy?
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: Did you hear what she says? She says she finds
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: it quote effing irritating.
• 37:07
  Speaker 12: Yeah.
• 37:07
  Speaker 11: I just think there's been this industry to go after
• 37:10
  Speaker 11: the family for years, so right now there's a crescendo
• 37:14
  Speaker 11: in it because of this trial. But that same YouTuber
• 37:16
  Speaker 11: that for years has been doing this, and then when
• 37:19
  Speaker 11: that hair was found in Abby's hand, because it's Kelsey's hair,
• 37:24
  Speaker 11: but they forgot to mention that the shirt that Abby
• 37:27
  Speaker 11: had on was actually Kelsey's shirt that she gave to Libby.
• 37:32
  Speaker 11: And of course there might be a hair. You know,
• 37:34
  Speaker 11: if you have long hair, it is pulled up. When
• 37:36
  Speaker 11: that hair was found, it went ah, there it is
• 37:39
  Speaker 11: the proof too.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us, I don't understand all the
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: hatred towards the victims' families.
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: Nancy, in some sick, twisted, perverted way, these YouTubers, I
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: believe are envious of Livy and Abby and the families
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: because they're getting so much notoriety, so much empathy, such
• 38:01
  Speaker 6: an outpouring of love and state resources, really trying to
• 38:07
  Speaker 6: convict Richard Allen, and these YouTubers cannot stand that somebody
• 38:12
  Speaker 6: else is getting protected, somebody else is getting attention and care,
• 38:17
  Speaker 6: so they are just this is like pouring battery acid
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: on the trial, victimizing the families, victimizing Libby and Abby,
• 38:26
  Speaker 6: treating the victims as if they are bad little girls
• 38:29
  Speaker 6: and deserve what's coming to them. And one more thing, Nancy,
• 38:33
  Speaker 6: these YouTubers are grandiose, contemptious. They're full of certitude. They
• 38:40
  Speaker 6: feel that they know better than everybody else, and they
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: are just revictimizing the family, say sant Hendricks.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: You and I were in court last week and I
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: observed Richard Allen's wife, I believe Richard Allen's stepfather, sitting
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: on the right in front of us, at the far right,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: and then there were several seats being taken up by
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I guess YouTube reporters.
• 39:05
  Speaker 7: I saw the family's Isla, Nancy, when they saw you,
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: and I'm so grateful you were there.
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: Susan, I got to tell you, it was a day
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: full of heartache. It was a day full of heartache.
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: You and I have been covering this case, along with
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: Cheryl and everybody else on this panel, since it first happened.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: That's been years in the making, pouring through documents, visiting
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: the scene, speaking to locals, speaking to experts. It's been
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: a very, very long and arduous process and a painful
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: process covering this. But imagine, just imagine what these victims'
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: families are going through every single day. Thank you to
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: our guests for wading through the evidence with us.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,