Latest / Books4Guys / Why So Many Parents Feel Burned Out (And What to Do About It) | Melissa Corkum

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Why So Many Parents Feel Burned Out (And What to Do About It) | Melissa Corkum · Books4Guys

• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm local to Baltimore.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: So about an hour, hour and a half outside of DC, depending on traffic.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've been in that area like a few times, but definitely not familiar.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I've got friends that live there and they explain it to me.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't understand how you go from like one state to the next on like the train so quickly and all this stuff, and it's unique to me.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, where are you in?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Texas or somewhere south?
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Tennessee.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So Nashville, Atlanta, Texas, Arkansas.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've lived in all the the southern states.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yep, that's where it's hot down here right now, though.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm not sure coming this way is gonna solve any of your problems because it's like over 100 degrees here today as well.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's I think it's hot everywhere.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: But no, Melissa, I'm super excited to have you on the podcast and been looking forward to this conversation just simply because your background is a little bit different than any guest that I've had on so far, and just the work that you do and focus on.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm gonna let you explain it yourself, but essentially helping people live their best life uh in a healthy way and focusing on some different things that maybe some people don't think of.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I know specifically, you know, you you work with parents a lot on some of those stress factors, and and as I was looking into your book and just kind of what you focus on, but you've done a lot of cool things.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, founder and CEO of Rise to Regulation, TEDx speaker, published author.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you do all kinds of cool things, but no, take take take it away for a moment, Melissa.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: For those that don't know you and your work, what is it all that you do and focus on?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what is your company Rise to Regulation all about?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, Chris, first thanks for having me on the podcast.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of fell into this work.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what I set out to do, it's not what my degree was in.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I specialize in basically burnout and regulation and how those interplay and how our ability to regulate our own nervous systems impacts, you know, how burned out we feel.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically, I work a lot in a type of burnout called blocked care.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what the book is about.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And with that, I serve folks who work with kids.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that could be parents.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: I work with a lot of parents.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: I do some parent coaching.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: I also train and consult with agencies in social welfare and the education space so that they know what to look for in parents or why it might look like parents aren't caring when they really obviously do.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: And how does that all all interplay?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so kind of equipping those professionals to serve parents well in their spaces.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: I can imagine your expertise is in high demand at this point in time.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I uh no, go ahead.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, I don't talk to very many people who are like, oh yeah, burnout, I don't have any of that, or chronic stress.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know what you're talking about.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: So most people are like, oh yeah, I I can resonate with that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Or I just think we live in a world with so much, we're going so fast and people are feeling stressed.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that kind of got a little bit of a boost post-COVID.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't really understand or know how to fully recover from a really stressful period, especially for parents.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I work a lot in child welfare spaces and foster care and adoption, but blocked care is certainly not specific to those populations.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: It can happen to any parent who's experiencing a decent amount of stress.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I just don't talk to many parents who aren't feeling stressed out.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, and that was going to be one of my questions for you.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I think the discussion has been there since COVID, specifically, just on the stresses out there.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's just there's a lot to it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you started focusing on this before COVID.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and what did you specifically, I guess, see that led you to say, like, hey, there's a problem here and it's getting worse.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I can do something to help.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the things you saw with parents and people or social workers and teachers that really led you to go, hey, let's let me let me see what I can do here?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So my co-author and I are both adoptive parents, and we both have long histories with adoption.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm also an adult adoptee, and she is a birth mom, which means she was relinquished a child for adoption earlier in her life.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we were already in the adoption space and serving and getting to know families through adoption spaces.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there was kind of this theme where parents were saying, I love my kid, but sometimes I don't like them.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or the types of behaviors and things that we're dealing with are exhausting.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I kind of feel like I want to give up.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: And these weren't, these were things that people were kind of like whispering to us.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't saying them out loud.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Both Lisa and I were bloggers, and so we were sharing some of the things in our journey that were hard.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And when people are in those spaces, they're just looking for anybody who might be experiencing similar things because there's so much shame in saying, I don't think I want to parent anymore, or parenting's harder than I thought it was gonna be, or, you know, or I don't like my child.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so when we started talking about those things a little bit publicly, it was like the floodgates open and people were saying, Oh, I've been looking for someone to allow me the space to say this.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when we started talking about it, we didn't even know what blocked care was.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I came across the term for what we were all experiencing in another book called Brain-Based Parenting.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's a pretty science-heavy book.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know that I would recommend it for all parents unless you've got a lot of extra brain space.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember thinking, oh, this is what we're experiencing.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now it has a name.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we all know that when there's a name for something that can bring a lot of relief because it's like, oh, I'm not crazy.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: If there's enough people in the world experiencing this that it someone named it, that I'm not the only one.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And but there wasn't a lot of work on the practical side of, okay, so now we know what we're experiencing, but what do we do with that?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: How do we overcome that?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: What does that practically look like?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we set out to solve in Reclaim Compassion is what are the practical steps that parents need once they've identified that they are experiencing blocked care or b parent burnout.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: What are some things, because I'm sitting here thinking, you know, obviously teachers, social workers, they in some regard have a choice and they could, you know, they could stop the work if they want to, but as a parent, you don't really have that option.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're in it.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um you can't just, you just can't not be the parent.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess you can, but that's, you know, different story.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that's not the choice a lot of people make.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it is.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what are some, I don't know, what are some ways that you work with these parents in in helping them reduce that stress and burnout?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: What are some things you help coach them through where they can breathe a little better and and have a little bit more of a balanced life?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, you know, I I don't have kids, so I don't know what it's like, but I have friends who do and and family members who do.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I I hear the stresses of it, I see it, and I and in my mind, I'm like, I don't know.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm self-aware enough to be like, that's really hard.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I can only imagine what it's like to be in the zone in that stage of life.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: But what are some things you guys work with people on to help them cope and get through in the right way?
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the 30,000-foot view is that our nervous system is taking in information and making a decision subconsciously all the time about whether or not it's safe to be open for connection or whether we need to be a little bit more protective and kind of focus on survival.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that underlying system in our nervous system is called neurosception.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so what in order for us to feel safe, the cues of safety need to outweigh the cues of danger and stress.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And if that if it's flipped, then the nervous system is gonna feel more protective.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when we uh as parents experience blocked care.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: Parents describe this to us as it literally feels like I'm bumping up against a wall.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like I want to care and I just can, right?
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the nervous system is protecting us because it feels like there's too many stressors.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's kind of like low battery mode on your phone.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: When the battery gets too low, certain systems start to shut down, you know, maybe the animations don't work or you don't get as many notifications.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or so our nervous system's the same way.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: If it's like you're too stressed, we're we might die, then we're gonna start shutting down things that we feel like are non-incession, non-essential.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And caring about other people is not essential really to our survival, right?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Where we kind of get egocentric in that sense.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So we talk to parents about what does it look like to intentionally add cues of safety set to the nervous system to balance that out.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Another way to think about it is how do we complete the stress cycle when that we experience a stress?
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we can get stuck in whatever however our nervous system has been activated.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And if we don't intentionally let our nervous system know, oh, it's safe to rest now, we're we're safe now, then we kind of stay at that high level of activation and it's exhausting.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's draining our resources.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to intentionally know like, what does it look like to complete the stress cycle?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: What does it look like, you know, at the end of a day, once the kids are in bed, to let our nervous system know, okay, you can stand down now.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of external factors because I'm thinking like obviously kids, they're your your entire focus and time is on them, at least for a period of time in your life.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's different than I'm assuming what most people are used to, you know, job, animal, cool, you have downtime, and all of a sudden you've got something that needs your attention 24-7 to make sure they survive and live and and you get them, you know, to the next stage.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: But are there factors such as, and I'm thinking of like like social media, comparison, you know, are these are there a lot of things like that that could contribute to somebody feeling burned out because they think like, hey, I'm not doing as good as this person, or I'm not as great of a parent as this, or my kid doesn't get to do what this kid does.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that part of it at all, too, that could contribute to that nervous system breakdown?
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Or what are all the factors that do contribute to that, other than just obviously the stress of raising a child?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so all of those things, right?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have a certain amount of margin in our nervous system and the the places our nervous system is kind of scanning for, you know, how's it going?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on, what are the cues are internally, our bodies, you know, are we tired, hungry, sick?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: How much margin do we have and just how physically well we feel?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's environmental factors, you know.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right now we're recording this in the middle of a heat wave, you know, and so if we're if that stresses our bodies out or, you know, our nervous systems.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: I I joke that I'm a nicer, mom, nicer, kinder, more patient mom when I wear soft pants, right?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: When I don't have when I'm in comfy clothes, like even just managing, you know, an itchy tag or something that doesn't feel quite quite right is taking margin up in in our resources, what we need.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: The nervous system's also looking at relationships, what's going on with the other relationships around us?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I would say social media falls into that.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: What are we and and mindset, right?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like what are what's what are the narratives and stories we're telling ourselves?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and social media, like you said, often can tell us we're not doing a good job, we're not keeping up with our neighbors, with the other families in our school district.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so all of those things do, in fact, play a factor.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, sometimes when we're training, we're telling people like, it could be something as simple as how hydrated are you?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: How much water are you drinking?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And people are kind of rolling their eyes, like, we all know we need to drink water, like this is much bigger than that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when you think that every stressor in our environment and our bodies is contributing to how much margin do we have to have compassion for our kids and their challenges and their potential big behaviors, then it becomes, well, hydration's a really low bar or a low-hanging fruit, right?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone can hydrate a little more and we probably all could.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: We can't control our kids' behaviors.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, like those things aren't necessarily going to go away.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: That we can't solve some of the stressors in our lives, but we can solve other ones and that all of it matters, right?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everything that is taxing our nervous system matters.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have to kind of pick and choose the things that we actually have control over to tweak to feel like we can have more margin for the stressors we don't have control over.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is so good, Melissa, because it's I I I'm sure as you're saying that, I'm sure people who listen or watch are gonna be like, duh, know that, but it's so hard to practice and and think about that while you're on.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I like one of my questions was gonna be too like, do you because there's so many factors that could play a role in this, like you said, environmental, uh as simple as a clothing tag.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I but I was thinking too, you know, health and wellness specifically of like food, nutrition, exercise, like what could you do to help?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, everyone always talks about the importance of like weightlifting or running or walking and how that can bring things down a little bit and clear your head.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I like that you were talking too about specifically, it seems like so many parents, and again, I'm not speaking because I don't I don't have one, but it seems like they want to be able to control the actions of their kids or that they're disappointed when they act a certain way and they can't figure out what's wrong or what to do.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: But the way you put it of, hey, that's one of those things that you just can't control.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, how can you control yourself better and regulate your own just process and emotions to get through that without overstressing yourself, worrying about something that in reality you just cannot control.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So adding all those uncontrollables are just gonna send you through the roof in a negative way while we can kind of figure out how to not let that happen.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: It just doesn't seem like a lot of people get that type of coaching or understanding, which is again why I think your work and and what you're trying to help people with is so important, just because it just doesn't seem like there's that many people out there that that are helping.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of people that need that help and in perspective, it feels like.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, culturally, for whatever reason, we've connected parent the quality of parenting with kids' behaviors.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's an influence there, right?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: We can influence.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: The the exercise that I did that kind of changed this for me, and I I shared this in my TED talk was I was at a parenting workshop as a parent, and the facilitator said, you know, make three columns on your piece of paper.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: One is the things you have control over, one column is the things you have influence over, and the third is things you don't have control over.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized that all the things that I was tempted to put in the I have control over, like I have control over what my kids eat.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, actually, I don't.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: I do have influence over that, right?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can decide what I'm making for dinner, I can decide which food is in the fridge, but ultimately no one's controlling what kids eat, especially as they get older, right?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your kids who are school aged are gonna go to the cafeteria, they're gonna trade lunches with the kid next to them, they're gonna buy something in the lunch line that you hoped they maybe didn't buy, you know, all of those things.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was really disappointing, right?
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: When I looked at my little exercise and I was like, oh shoot, like the only thing I really control is me.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: And half the time I don't even do that well.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, what are we doing here?
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that really shaped kind of what how I coach parents because we can bang our heads against the wall all day long trying to control our kids by punishing them, taking away screen time, grounding them, all of the things.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have a semi-compliant child, maybe those things will work and you won't really be setting them up for success later in life because then it'll it's more like this like extrinsic motive transactional motivation.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: But when we can think about, well, I believe, and I've and this is after years of of doing this and and neuroscience research and all the things, when humans, our and specifically our kids, are regulated and they have the skills to meet the expectations, they'll do well.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so I spend a lot of time with parents saying, okay, well, if Johnny's, you know, acting out at school rather than trying to find the punishment that will keep him from doing that in the future, let's look and see is this a regulation issue or is this a skill issue?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when we solve those problems, then we see kids doing a lot better.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Again, there's there's so much to it.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm assuming, I mean, again, every family, every kid is unique.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's some things that are, you know, you can look at and and see patterns and things, but it's just again, it's like it's like the human body.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many different ways it can react and go.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure, again, I'm sure it's something that and it's why you enjoy what you're doing, is probably trying to figure it out and solve what the underlying issues are and working with each parent and each child or each teacher, and just kind of better customizing a game plan that works for them, and so that that person can see results, you know, taking what you're you're sharing with them.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a that's a long process, and I and I'm sure that's kind of a motivation behind writing a book, too, is like, hey, I can, I can obviously you can work one-on-one with so many people, but I always tell people I I I love when people write books, especially in their expertise, because then you can potentially touch so many more people that maybe they can take something away from it where they wouldn't get to work with you one-on-one and get that's that customized approach.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: It but that kind of leads me, I've I've got just a couple more questions for you, Melissa.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them is in regards to your book, you know, with you and Lisa, if a parent or a teacher or social worker as they're reading through it, if if they don't take but one or two things away, what are those one or two foundational things you hope are the things they take away that they can implement and help at least get them going in the right direction on their own?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the I would say if people take nothing else away, the first thing is that this feeling of I don't like my kid or I'm at the end of my rope is not a character flaw.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: This is a self-protective mechanism in the nervous system.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's your nervous system actually working the way it's supposed to.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's huge.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important for not just parents to hear that, but for people who work with parents because we hear from parents who, you know, go seek out therapy and counseling with folks who don't understand this mechanism and blocked care.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, they're kind of like giving suggestions to parents, and parents are feeling really resistant to them because of that block, and then they're being kind of feeling judged by the professionals.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think one, it's not the parents' fault, but two, it is overcomable.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So even though we're saying to parents, we get it, you're not a bad parent, you're not alone, the next step is but we don't want to stay there.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_01: We can get out of it.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's not a permission slip to stay in blocked care.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we need, you know, it's our responsibility to show up for our kids well.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And we can do that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: There are ways, very practical ways to move forward out of that.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Simple, but not necessarily easy, but it can be done, and we've seen it happen with thousands of parents.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you just another question and just kind of your personal opinion?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there's this need here and and you're working on it, but just overall, as like uh just nationally as as with parents and kids, and again, the world's changing so fast.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Does it and again, this isn't like to have a bleak outlook or positive, but like what is your outlook on parenting in general right now?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is it like more challenging than ever and getting more challenging by by the day and year?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are there things that you hope can maybe swing the pendulum a different direction because of the direction we're headed in?
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what are your what are your concerns, but also like what are some things you see as positives as, you know, again, as parenthood continues and because I mean I'm I'm thinking of stats of like birth rate going down for different reasons, and then people are stressed, so they don't want to have kids, and then work, you know, both husband and wife have to work their tails off because things are expensive.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so again, there's all these factors, and I don't want to be doom and gloom, but like just what's your personal outlook?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an eternal optimist, so that'll probably come through.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I do yeah, I do think the factors for parenting feel like they're getting more complex.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think when you add social media in, that's really tricky.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's always been stressors.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: They're just different now.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: It does feel like they're a little bit more intense, and maybe it's because of social media and we're seeing all of them or we're being able to talk about it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: But on the flip side, Side of that, I think our understanding of brains and nervous systems is at an all-time high, and that's able to contribute to the solution of how do we combat all these stresses that we're feeling.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: I also think our ability to connect to other parents, social media, you know, has both a plus side and a downside.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the plus side is it's connecting parents in ways that parents have never been connected before.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the co-regulation that happens when parents get together is incredible and it's so healing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we're able to do that in ways we couldn't decades ago.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's both.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're seeing new stressors, but I also think we're seeing new resources.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm I'm hopeful.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's why, you know, again, why I do the work that we do.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: The book that you got your hands on, Reclaim Compassion, was written for a really specific audience, a faith-based audience who had adopted.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like you said, you know, this is really a worldwide, like parenting problem, which is much more global.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so we re-released the book in a kind of larger format and um it's agency friendly and it's general parenting friendly.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so that book is called Every Parent's Guide to Reclaiming Compassion.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the the content is largely the same, but the the every parent's guide is not adoption-specific.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's no faith-based content.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: So it it is a more versatile book for a wider audience because you know, this is an ongoing, much bigger problem that we can address.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, Melissa, my last question for you is just one that I ask everyone that comes on the podcast.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really just a books question, you know, just for books for guys.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always curious to know what is a book or two that has meant a lot to you personally or professionally?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And what's a book that you love to recommend to other people?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the number one book I probably recommend that is kind of an an odd recommend for a parenting book.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I read it's been years now on a road trip, listen to Never Split the Dis Never Split the Difference.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you familiar with that book?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I haven't read it, but it's been recommended a couple of times and it's on my list.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't gotten to it yet.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's by Chris Voss, and he was a former FBI hostage negotiator.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was written kind of almost like a business book, you know, for negotiating deals and stuff.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember listening to it and thinking this is one of the most applicable books to chat to parenting challenging kids that I've ever read.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started recommending it to parents and specifically when I would work with dads, because often I don't know parenting books for whatever I'm probably because it's mostly women and moms reading them, kind of cater towards women.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times, you know, parent moms will say to me, you know, my husband isn't really interested in this book or that book.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, do you have an idea?
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll say, see if he'll read never split the difference.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Because it doesn't it's not advertised as a parenting book.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: It definitely was advertised or written probably more with a male audience in mind.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And people come back to me all the time and say that that made a huge difference in their parenting and and just their outlook.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I I have a lot of tips that I give in parenting sessions that come specifically from that book.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm familiar with Chris.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: He's actually somebody I want to get on the podcast because I've interviewed a couple people who have co-authored books with him.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so he's I'm very familiar with the book.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: I just haven't read it yet, but you're like the fifth person to recommend it.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I need to probably like bump it up the list a little bit.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Read it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: So but no, Melissa, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on here and talk about this because this is something that again, I have not had anyone talk about parenting and the stresses behind it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and then just in this day and age, I think this type of conversation and the work you're doing specifically is extremely important.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just again, as someone who sees it from the outside, I'm like, wow, man, this seems like super stressful.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm stressed and I don't even, you know, I'm not even really in the day to day with it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so I again I just I can't imagine, you know, what parents are going through and and teachers.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my wife's a former teacher.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: She uh she left the the industry after 14 years because of some of the changes and stresses that came along post-COVID.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I do know a little bit of that space in particular.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I hopefully, you know, the optimist in myself and you, I I there are a lot of positives out there, and hopefully people can channel that into you know moving forward and and being great parents and great leaders and raising great children for the next generation.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so um no.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So just keep keep doing what you're doing.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: The thing the work you're doing is extremely important.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I can't wait to see everything that you continue to do, especially now that we're connected, and I'll definitely be following along just to see all the things that you're all the positive things that you're doing to help people and and everything that goes into that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so very proud to spotlight yours and Lisa's book on our Books for Guys website and and to share that with everyone.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, no, this has been this has been fun, very informational, and just really appreciate you taking the time to do this.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Chris, thanks for having me.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: If parents are listening and they're thinking, I might have blocked care, I'm not really sure.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to make an assessment, a really quick assessment available to your people.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if they go to rise2regulation.com, it's all spelled out slash books for guys.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you use the number for, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll use correct books for with the number guys, then they'll be able to go to that assessment and they can, it's like 10 questions, pretty simple, and be able to kind of just see where they fall on the block scare spectrum, and then based on their results, what resources would be a good next step.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll make sure and include that in the show notes so that anyone's interested, they can click on that and go do that assessment.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: So really appreciate that, Melissa.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: But no, thank you so much for doing this.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and like I said, just keep doing what you're doing.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Chris.