Latest / Thinking Class / #071 - Charles Cornish-Dale - Why Our Health Depends On Resisting The Growing Corporate Control Of The Food Supply

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#071 - Charles Cornish-Dale - Why Our Health Depends On Resisting The Growing Corporate Control Of The Food Supply · Thinking Class

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hello, classmates, and welcome to Thinking Class.
0:03
SPEAKER_02: I'm John Gillam, and today I'm speaking with Charles Cornish Dale, otherwise known as Raw Egg Nationalist.
0:10
SPEAKER_02: Charlie has a popular ex account, Baby Gravy9, and is the author of four books: Raw Egg Nationalism in Theory and Practice, Three Lives of Golden Age Bodybuilders, Draw Me a Gironda, and Raw Egg Trilogy.
0:24
SPEAKER_02: His fifth book, The Last Men, Liberalism and the Death of Masculinity, is due out in April 2025.
0:32
SPEAKER_02: In this episode, Charlie and I think out loud about his journey from academia to becoming a prominent voice in health and nutrition advocacy, why low testosterone in men is a political issue, why we should resist the corporate takeover of the food supply and shun plant-based diets, how ancestral diets are optimal for health, why the West's addiction to growth will be the death of it, and why a spiritual malaise is behind declining birth rates, and that's why economic incentives won't fix it.
1:00
SPEAKER_02: And also why replacement immigration is not a solution, and much, much more.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: In the exclusive Substack Q ⁇ A, we discuss Charlie's views on what we should eat for optimal health, and how men can boost their testosterone.
1:14
SPEAKER_02: And we also talk about Charlie's experience since he was doxxed, his real name and identity becoming known to the public, and much more.
1:22
SPEAKER_02: As other classmates, make sure to like, subscribe, and follow the show on YouTube, your podcast platform of choice, and Substack where paid subscribers get the opportunity to ask questions, the big questions of my guests, that will be put to them in a special QA that only paid subscribers get access to.
1:40
SPEAKER_02: Let's grow Thinking Class Together.
1:42
SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the show, classmates.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: Charles Cornishdale, otherwise known as Raw Egg Nationalist.
1:59
SPEAKER_02: Welcome to Thinking Class.
2:00
SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for joining me.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's an absolute pleasure.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: It really is.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking forward to it.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: Good.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: Well, um, me too.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: It's been a long time in the making, and I'm glad we finally got our diaries together.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: And Charlie, you you've amassed almost 300,000 Twitter followers at the time of writing.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: Almost 20,000 on Substack.
2:19
SPEAKER_02: And you state that it is your sworn mission to help people break the chains of ill health and dependency because the future of the nation depends on you.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: And uh this philosophy guides much of what you produced.
2:32
SPEAKER_02: And actually, since your name came out into the open um by way of hope not hate recently, uh, if anyone was to search your name, you can find that you were seven years ago giving speeches on the Reformation in Exeter Cathedral on its 500th year anniversary, uh, as well as in um conversation with people about the ethics of care.
2:56
SPEAKER_02: So how did you come to hold this view and end up on this sworn mission?
3:02
SPEAKER_02: And why do you think it's so important?
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I've been on a I've been on a very strange journey for some time.
3:08
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I spent the better part of maybe a day almost a decade in academia.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh I did my undergraduate um degree at Exeter in the Southwest.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: I did history, and I went to Cambridge and I did social anthropology.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: Then I went to Oxford uh after a brief hiatus and uh did medieval history, read for a PhD or D Phil in medieval history.
3:32
SPEAKER_00: I wrote about the Reformation.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: Um but it kind of became clear to me actually when I was doing the D Fill, although I really enjoyed it.
3:40
SPEAKER_00: I enjoyed the um I enjoyed doing the research and and it was, you know, I mean, say one of the great things actually about doing a PhD is that, especially in the humanities or the social sciences, is that you actually get a lot of time to yourself.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: You know, I didn't have much contact time, I didn't have to go to lectures if I didn't want to, didn't have to go to seminars.
3:59
SPEAKER_00: Um uh I was well organized and motivated, so I was doing the research and and you know, it was all fine.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: So I had a lot of time just to read.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: So I was just reading a lot and you know, reading things that I wanted to read that weren't necessarily anything to do with the project that I was doing.
4:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it became very clear to me actually that I didn't want to be an academic.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I mean I made a few kind of half-hearted, uh half-hearted applications as I was leaving, as I was sort of uh heading out the door.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh I I needed to do something.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: You know, I needed a job.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: I fell back into uh some literary typewrit that I had done before I was before I did my PhD.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: Um I got offered a job as a as a history master at a um private school in in Sussex, which I didn't want to do.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: Uh and then the and then the pandemic happened, and um I had been lurking around on Twitter uh following following Bronze Age Pervert in particular.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: So I I sort of was brought to Twitter by Bronze Age Pervert, by Bronze Age Mindset, his uh self-published book that has caused such a stir, was recommended to me very early on, actually, uh after its release by Amazon.
5:13
SPEAKER_00: I think because I'd been reading, been reading Nietzsche, I think that's why it was recommended.
5:17
SPEAKER_00: But I bought it, even though it looked very strange, and read it and thought it was great, and started following Bronze Havert on Twitter and and but not really doing anything, just sort of following along in the background.
5:28
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, at the beginning of the pandemic, now I began this metamorphosis into the Roreg Nationalists, an anonymous uh Twitter poster, uh posting about health, about fitness, uh, and the relation of health and fitness in particular with with politics and and the health of the nation.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean I've got quite a deep background in health and fitness.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was a martial arts instructor as a as a in my late teens.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: I taught kickboxing, you know, I've always been fit, I've always taken care of myself, but I got into I got into lifting weights in a big way, you know, before the pandemic, maybe a year or two before the pandemic, and I was thinking about the politics of health and fitness, and that's actually a big part of Bronze Age mindset as well.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: In the book, there's there's quite a lot of interesting stuff about the relationships between uh political attitudes and um health and fitness, and you know, why it's absurd.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: There was this thing called the swole left.
6:25
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you uh saw that.
6:27
SPEAKER_00: There was this funny thing where about sort of 2016-2017, then these various different outlets were trying to push this idea that actually leftists need to work out.
6:37
SPEAKER_00: They need to, you know, so if they want to bash the FASH, you know, then they need to work out because actually, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't do anybody, it doesn't do the left any good for them all to be, you know, like overweight uh and unhealthy and and and disabled and all this kind of stuff.
6:52
SPEAKER_00: And so um, so yes, I was thinking about this stuff and I was just kind of posting in a in a humble way, but I wrote uh I wrote a cookbook in the summer of 2020 called Royc Nationalism in theory and practice, Cook Good with the Royal Nationalist, which I which I posted first as just a free PDF and then as a um self-published paperback on Amazon.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: It eventually became a hardback uh cookbook as well, uh coffee table cookbook, and um things just started to go crazy from there.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: And I was in a Tucker Carlson documentary in 2022, The End of Men, with RFK Jr., who is now uh Secretary of Health and Human Services, uh, you know, one of the most important cabinet positions in the in the US government.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: So um yeah, I mean I th I think that I think that my posting as Roy Nationalist and writing as Roy Egg Nationalist, because you know I write for various different outlets, newspapers, I write for the spectator now.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: Um uh I I think that it I think that my writing is is an extension really of attitudes that I've held for a long time.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: But I think especially with the pandemic, especially with the pandemic, then they really kind of crystallized the the political facets of health and fitness just can't be denied now.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean I think in the past it was it was much easier to dismiss health and fitness as ephemeral concerns, and you know, why why would why would anybody care?
8:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, why would it be a political issue?
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Testosterone levels, for example.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, um, you know, now now obviously it's uh it's it's impossible to not only with the uh pandemic, but also the Make America Healthy Again agenda and all that kind of stuff.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: I mean, testosterone was actually a political issue during the US election.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean it was uh it was actually a uh a dividing line between the Democrats and the Republicans.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: So um I think that my my writing has proven to be pretty timely.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I think I mean it's been influenced, it's been influential as well, and and you know, I mean I'm followed by followed by JD Vance on Twitter, which I still find very funny.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Um uh and he periodically gets attacked for that.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, so it's been a it's been a strange journey, but I think I mean I'm I'm pleased to be the Roy Egg nationalist, and now I'm well now I'm actually just writing as myself because my identity's been revealed.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm much happier to be doing what I'm doing than than what I was doing at Oxford.
9:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd I'd I would far rather just be writing about the kind of things that I really want to write about rather than following a kind of narrow academic career, you know, writing for decades about the Reformation and all that kind of stuff.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: So um, but yeah, it's it's it's been a fun, it's been a funny journey, really funny journey.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: Charlie, I think it's it's fair to say that in that response, and if anyone is familiar or or is going to go and get familiar with your writings, that you'll see that you exhort people to get back to basics when it comes to food.
9:55
SPEAKER_02: So you you to obviously the the raw egg nationalist is is your moniker and you are known for schlunking, and you can perhaps explain what that is.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: If you speak to anyone who's part of, say, the uh cultural elite, political elite, whether it's people working in the professional managerial class, there's a lot of talk about sustainable food systems and that we need to be able to uh deal with either a growing population um and that we need to be able to feed everyone, things need to be more equitable, it's all part of a just transition.
10:30
SPEAKER_02: And um and there is a lot of focus on processed foods, I suppose.
10:35
SPEAKER_02: And there are various uh institutions, so they could be non-governmental organizations, they could be part of supranational institutions that are all focused on coming up with some kind of a sustainable food system.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: Um what's your take on that?
10:52
SPEAKER_02: And I suppose as a follow-up, why should we care where our food is is from and what we eat?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's a good question.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, I mean there's a big there's a global push really for uh more sustainable food systems, for more equitable food systems.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: And actually that's the that's basically the focus of my last book.
11:16
SPEAKER_00: So I've got a new book coming out uh actually, I think next month it's coming out called The Last Men, Liberalism and the Death of Masculinity, that's about the political implications of testosterone decline.
11:27
SPEAKER_00: It's kind of following on actually from the Tucker Carlson documentary that I was in.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh you know it's continuing the themes, it's looking at the causes of testosterone decline, but also the political implications and trying to situate testosterone decline actually within uh kind of late liberalism, liberal democracy, uh, and particularly Francis Fukuyama's end of history thesis.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: It's quite, it's quite kind of deeply philosophical, actually.
11:52
SPEAKER_00: I think people would be surprised, you know.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: It's not um uh it it it it it will ruffle a few feathers, I think, and it's it's interesting, it will get people thinking.
12:02
SPEAKER_00: But um, my previous book before that was called The Eggs Benedict Option, which is a riff on the Benedict Option, which was uh book written by Rod Dreer uh five or six years ago, maybe a little bit.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh 2017, actually, I think that was written.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but anyway, so that's that book is about this idea of a plant-based future, that what we need to do in order to save the planet not only from climate change, but also from uh overpopulation or from massively expanding global population, you know, because the projection is, well, by 2050 there are going to be 10 billion people on the planet.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: They all need to be fed, they need to be fed healthily.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: So, what do we what do we do?
12:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, we we move away from traditional animal agriculture, uh, and we turn over farmland to uh arable to crop raising, uh and we employ all sorts of new techniques, we we use um genetic, new genetically modified strains of like wheat and soy and legumes and all these kinds of things, uh, and advanced techniques as well, you know, um AI and and drones and all sorts of stuff like that, and laser weeders and all this kind of stuff to maximize yields so that we can A, reduce uh carbon emissions as much as possible, and B, produce enough uh plant food to feed 10 billion people in an equitable, sustainable manner.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, this is a big push that is taking place.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: It's taking place across the globe.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: It has the backing of the UN, the scientific establishment, the medical establishment, NGOs, celebrities and philanthropists, captains of industry, activist groups.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's like this is massive global push, massive global push.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: And um uh my book is is basically you know an argument against it.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: It's an argument against um it's an argument against a plant-based future for a number of reasons.
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Health reasons for a start, because plant-based diets are maladaptive, and I draw very heavily on the work of a pioneering dentist, anthropologist called Weston A.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Price.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: He wrote a book in the 1930s called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, which is an amazing book.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: I actually think it's the best book on nutrition that was that has ever been written, ever been written.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: So Weston Price was uh a dentist in Canada, in um, he was Canadian rather, but he was a dentist in the US, in uh Cleveland, in Ohio, and uh he was a dentist sort of around about the turn of the 20th century.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: And um he noticed increasingly that his patients, and particularly the children, were coming to him with um well, basically physical degeneration.
14:50
SPEAKER_00: So it's in the title of the book, you know, he noticed that not only were their mouths full of cavities, but actually their faces weren't developing properly, their jaws weren't developing properly, their the the art, the dental arch, the roof of the mouth, wasn't developing properly, the the airways and the cheeks and the whole face was almost kind of the structure was collapsing basically.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: And so he he intuited, he understood, of course, this is something to do with what people are eating, and what was happening at the at the turn of the 20th century was that actually Americans, really for the first time on a widespread scale, were starting to eat industrially produced foodstuffs, so foods produced in factories, rather than whole foods locally produced, locally prepared, which is what people have eaten for the entire span of human history up until the 20th century.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: So um uh there was a profound dietary transformation taking place in the US.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: It was also taking place in other countries, in Britain and other parts of the industrialized world.
15:52
SPEAKER_00: But um uh you can think of the kinds of foods that they were starting to eat as processed foods, the first processed foods.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: So, like refined wheat products, canned goods, um, things like that, sugar syrups, um, you know, foods produced in factories, the forerunners of the kind of ultra-processed foods that we've been eating since the 50s and particularly the 1980s and 1990s.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so Weston A.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Price was like, okay, I think it's the food.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: He was a scientific, scientifically minded man, so he said, what we need is we need some control groups to compare.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: So he decided to go on this kind of globetrotting um adventure, visiting traditional societies, small-scale societies, where they ate their traditional diets, where they ate the kind of foods that their ancestors had been eating.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: So he went to the Arc he went to Arctic Canada and he saw the Inuit who were eating salmon and caribou and elk and and all that kind of stuff.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: He went to Africa and he met pastoralists who were you know consuming their traditional diet of blood, meat, and milk.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: Uh he went to the Highlands and Islands of Scotland and stayed with crofters.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh he went to High Alpine Switzerland and uh visited remote communities there where they still basically subsisted on a diet of rye bread, butter, uh, little bit of meat, uh, milk, and you know, alpine trout.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Uh that, you know, like very simple, very basic diet of Whole Foods.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: He went to Afri he went to uh Australia and and um Polynesia, Fiji, New Zealand, South Pacific, Solomon Islands, places like that.
17:35
SPEAKER_00: And he basically came to the conclusion that um, or what he saw basically was that traditional societies where they still eat their traditional diets that are based in uh nutrient-dense animal foods in particular.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: So that's things like organ meat, fatty cuts of meat, eggs, dairy, uh, seafood, especially in places like New Zealand and the South Pacific.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, none of these signs of physical degeneration that he saw back in Cleveland among his patients were visible at all.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, so, you know, I mean, and he took lots of pictures as well, which is a great part of the book.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, he has these pictures that show you, you know, what a Western diet does to the structure of a person's face, or what an emerging Western industrialized uh diet does to a person's face.
18:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what he also saw actually as well in these traditional societies and on the fringes of these traditional societies was the encroachment of or the infiltration of Western foods, these canned foods, refined goods.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: And wherever traditional societies moved away from their um ancestral diet towards a Western uh processed diet, they also started to display exactly the same signs of physical degeneration as the people back in the US.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: So he had a very he he established a very, very compelling empirical case that um basically the best way to maintain optimum health is to consume an ancestral diet built around nutrient-dense animal foods primarily.
19:07
SPEAKER_00: So um that's a long you know explanation of basically my standpoint on diet, which is uh like an ancestral standpoint on diet, and it's very clear that a plant-based diet is incompatible with what Western Price calls perfect health.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Um so there's a so I have a you know I have a uh I have a nutritional um beef, if you will, with uh these plant-based diets and this this plant-based agenda, but there's also a social and political uh aspect to it as well.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: And so in the eggs Benedict auction, then I actually compare the plant-based revolution that's supposed to be taking place, which is often called the Great Reset, it's part of the Great Reset.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, that's uh that's a pretty difficult term, and you know, it conjures up all sorts of kind of uh conspiracy theories or accusations of conspiracy theories.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: But I mean, there's no doubt that you know that this this kind of plant-based transformation is is being planned and is being advocated, and there are policy documents about it, etc.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: And I look at the policy documents, you know, I'm not just plucking this stuff out of thin air, I'm actually looking at specific um, you know, policy documents that have been written and and uh nutritional guidelines, etc.
20:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, but there's a there's a political and a social element to it as well.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: And I and I compare the Great Reset Plan for a plant-based diet to the agricultural revolution that took place in the Near East about 10 to 12,000 years ago, and I say, look, that was a that was a profound social and political transformation that was built off the back of a total transformation of the way that food was produced and consumed.
20:50
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the the agricultural revolution was the move away from hunter-gatherer lifestyles to the first states supported by fixed field farming, basically.
21:00
SPEAKER_00: So that's like the domestication of wild crops, cereal crops, and also the domestication of a handful of animals and the emergence of the first urban settlements, um, you know, these great agglomerations of people in and in numbers that had never been seen before, you know.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: So hunter-gatherers would, you know, you'd have a maximum, maybe 150 people in the hunter-gatherer group, right?
21:22
SPEAKER_00: That was about as big as it could get.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, these first cities in the in the in Mesopotamia, then you have 50,000 people.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like it's a total, it's a total social and political transformation.
21:32
SPEAKER_00: And you have states and armies and bureaucracies, um uh, and all of that is off the back of the transition to agriculture, to agriculture as we understand it.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I make this kind of provocative comparison, and I say, look, um, you know, control of the food supply is a political issue.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: We don't think it is.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: We we've forgotten.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: So there's this great quotation from Ernst Junger, uh Uh and he says uh long periods of peace and stability favor certain optical illusions.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh and he's talking in I think it's from the Forest passage, which is one of his books.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: But he says he's talking particularly about like the security of the household.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: And he says, you know, like the security of the household doesn't rest on the state fundamentally, it rests on the willingness of the father, the head of the household, to appear on the threshold of his dwelling with his axe with his sons.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like that's the basis of security is the individual will to defend oneself.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Well, another optical illusion that is, I think, favored by periods of peace and stability is this notion that actually it doesn't matter who who controls the food supply.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: The food food is just there, you know, food is just there.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter who supplies it.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, it does.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: It really does.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's what we're seeing with this plant-based agenda that actually you're getting corporate, I mean you're getting corporations controlling the food supply to an ever greater extent.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's one of the reasons why we eat so much processed food, is because corporations have captured the food supply in a way that, you know, is is is without any kind of parallel in human history.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: That's one of the main developments of the 20th century, is corporate capture of the food supply and the replacement of locally produced, um, simply um produced foods uh with these kind of novel fabrications that require factories uh and all sorts of uh novel ingredients, stabilizers, texturisers, preservatives, etc., colourings, you know, to produce.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: You have to you have to have a factory and you have to be a corporation to be able to produce these foods.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, now they're more and more of our of our diet, you know.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think children, toddlers in the UK aged two to five, get something like 66% of their daily calories from ultra-processed food now.
23:56
SPEAKER_00: So there's been this there's been this transfer of ownership of the food supply into the hands of corporations.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: And that's only that's only going to advance with this plant-based agenda.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, it's it's quite explicitly set out, you know, we in order to feed 10 billion people, all crops need to be genetically modified.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: Well, corporations own genetically modified um uh cereals and and and other crops, right?
24:22
SPEAKER_00: You patent them.
24:22
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's why they like them, right?
24:24
SPEAKER_00: So if you if you're a farmer and you and you buy genetically modified seeds from Monsanto or Bayer, who now own Monsanto, um, you have to sign a contract.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: And that contract says things like, for example, you can't give the seeds to anybody else.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: At the end of the year, you have to discard the seeds that you that you haven't used.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: You have to come back to Monsanto next year to buy more.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Um all sorts of these uh crazy, crazy conditions attached to the use of genetically modified crops because they are actually patented and owned by the by the you know the corporations that manufacture them, unlike wheat, normal wheat seed, you know.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: So it's um I mean it's kind of it's kind of a the ex-benedict option is, yeah, so it's like a it's like a kind of dual uh a dual kind of rebuttal of this of this plant-based agenda on nutritional grounds, because it's not good for us, because it's maladaptive, because we should be eating animal-based products, we should be building our diets around animal foods.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: And also then from the political side, because actually what it means is that we're surrendering basically total control of the food supply to corporations backed by governments.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's not a good thing.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: It's made us massively unhealthy through the 20th century because you know, we've had all these processed foods foisted on us.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: And and and and what it will mean essentially is that actually you will not be able to get a hold of um animal foods, even if you want to.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: And so, I mean, there's a you know, you often hear people saying, well, they're gonna ban meat, they're gonna ban milk, they're gonna ban eggs.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: And I talk about that in the book, and I say, look, I don't actually think that that's what they'll do.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that that's the way that it will work.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: What I think is that actually you'll see what's happening in the UK at the moment, and this is very interesting with the um new inheritance tax laws for farmers, what you're going to see is you're going to see increasing corporate control of the of the actual um farmland.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, family farms are going to be broken up because farmers can't afford to pay inheritance tax.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And so they'll be gobbled up.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: They won't go to, I mean, the Labour government is saying, look, what will happen is this will break the monopoly of larger farm of larger farmers, you know, on the market for agricultural land.
26:46
SPEAKER_00: And it will let you know uh young people into the into the farming business and they can get a little parcel of land and have a little farm and a family.
26:54
SPEAKER_00: It's not going to work like that.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be big corporations and asset funds that gobble up all the land, and then, you know, instead of having a class of owner farmers, you're going to have a class of renter farmers who are all renting their land from uh corporations.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: But what will happen as well is you'll get corporations owning farmland and then they'll turn it over for different purposes, or they'll just stop using it for animal agriculture.
27:18
SPEAKER_00: So you're seeing these huge, great solar farms turning up all across the English countryside.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, where I live, then uh, you know, you drive through the countryside, oh, there's a there's another, you know, five fields full of solar panels that have gone up.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: And what that will do, of course, is that will create artificial scarcity and that will drive up the prices because you've got less farmland being used for animal agriculture, uh, which drives up which drives up the prices.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: And um so it's a kind of it's a it's quite it's quite insidious.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: It's quite insidious.
27:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there may very well also be things like carbon taxes as well.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: That's something that I talk about, and that's something that's been mooted, you know.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: You you put extra taxes on products that uh are most polluting, you know, that release the most carbon.
28:06
SPEAKER_00: And so, right, what's that what's that word's beef, you know?
28:09
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to have a steak, then you're gonna have to pay a surcharge to have a piece of steak.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, what they will do is they'll price people out of eating animal foods regularly.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's a it's a sin it's a sinister thing, and it and it doesn't it doesn't work by any kind of logic of um consumer choice, it's not democratic.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, people have voted already with their with their pounds and their dollars and their euros.
28:37
SPEAKER_00: Nobody wants to buy plant-based meat, for example.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: So you've got these big, big companies like Beyond and Impossible, billions of dollars behind them, massive propaganda pushes all the time.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, this is healthier and it tastes as good as normal animal meat, normal ground beef.
28:57
SPEAKER_00: People don't believe it, people don't buy the products, billions of dollars are wasted, uh, you know, the share price collapses, they s they fire thousands of people.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and yet still, somehow, these these companies sort of persist because they're propped up.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: Because actually, I think investors are looking forward to a time when uh there will be explicit government support for them, where there'll be subsidies perhaps, and it might actually be the case that people just can't afford to eat normal animal products, and so they say, okay, what the hell I have a plant-based, I'll have a plant-based beef burger because you know I I want to have something like a beef burger.
29:36
SPEAKER_00: Um so it's uh it's a complic it's a complicated thing.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I mean I make the argument as well in the book that look, um, I don't honestly know that you can you certainly can't make a case that will convince me that I should that I should give up animal products, the products that are necessary for my health, simply because there are going to be five billion people in Africa.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: Like that's uh, you know, you're gonna have to try harder to convince me that that is something that I have to do.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: But that is, you know, it's just the assumption is oh, well, there's gonna be 10 billion people in the world, so you know, um uh we've all we've all of us in the West, because of course it is us in the West, are gonna have to give up animal foods.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Um and yeah, I mean it doesn't it doesn't follow for me.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: So I mean it's a complicated, you know, it's it's it's a book.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's a three 300-odd page book, you know.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a it's a kind of I consider it to be like a distillation of all of the and a formulation actually of all of the kind of um doctrines of raw egg nationalism and all of the kind of ideas that I'm trying to promote about the relationship between uh health and fitness and diet and politics, on the other hand.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: Um and it's been it's been very it's been very successful, actually.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: It's been very, very well received.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: It was you know, it was it was top of the Amazon chart uh in its category for almost a year.
30:58
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it'd be beat off beat off books by uh like George Monbiot, for example.
31:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, he had a book called Regenesis that was um that was actually an argument that was the opposite argument.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, so his his argument was you know for for a plant-based future, and then mine is for the returning to the past.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I beat beat beat his book off, and yeah, it was so it's been it's been a big success.
31:24
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31:29
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31:38
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31:41
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31:54
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31:57
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32:00
SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the rest of the show, classmate.
32:04
SPEAKER_02: The points that you were raising there, uh which are I suppose very prevalent depending on which corners of the internet you go looking in, but there's certainly lots of questions raised around conversations being had at the highest levels of government with organizations, big big investment funds and the like, who are all interested in the kind of investments you've talked about with regards to uh renewable energy farms or um the plant-based food revolution.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, and I can also talk from experience that that is absolutely happening.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I've seen big corporations which I work in and around uh pushing the net zero toolkit on school children, which talks about what would happen if we um replaced our protein with insects and why that would be a good thing.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: And you see that repeatedly, actually.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: I I sometimes you walk out of train stations and you know when you see those cake stands.
32:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh I've I've I've said as I was walking down the grass market in Edinburgh the other day, at least two stands that were selling insect-based cakes.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: Uh so it's it's uh it's definitely coming.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: But I think what's quite interesting is as you mentioned, people aren't actually that interested in shopping in that free-from section unless you're you know a guide in the wood, like scusa pun, vegan or vegetarian.
33:21
SPEAKER_02: Uh I've certainly fallen on that trap before, and I'm I'm reformed on both counts and now eat uh lots of meat and lots of eggs.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, but I think what's remarkable is that even though people don't want it, is that they don't necessarily put the two and two together about the investment toward that revolution.
33:38
SPEAKER_02: And that inheritance tax move on the farmers is was definitely cynical and it's definitely worked because I've heard those who would probably consider themselves to be political normies who would eat your bangers and mash and the various things and look for the British maid, sit there and go absolutely buckwild about the notion that farmers were getting an easy ride on inheritance tax and they should get what's coming to them.
34:04
SPEAKER_02: So it was a very cynical move and it certainly worked.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: Something else you mentioned, Charlie, was growing populations.
34:12
SPEAKER_02: And um, I suppose having grown up in a time where our population has just grown repeatedly, even though, you know, as we know, uh the British, the the white British population aren't really uh producing, but having high levels of immigration, and we've generally seen the global population increasing.
34:30
SPEAKER_02: Um there seems to be this assumption that for any kind of thriving society, we need a growing population.
34:40
SPEAKER_02: Do you believe that?
34:43
SPEAKER_00: I uh I have complicated views about uh population growth.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I'm going to speak actually at the end of this month at the Natalism Conference in Austin, Texas, which is organized by this group called Exit Group that's run by a friend of mine called Kevin Dolan.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: They're Mormons, you know, they're very I mean, Mormons have a high birth rate, right?
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Mormons, Mormons reproduce, as as do a lot of uh, you know, religious minorities in the US, the Amish in particular.
35:12
SPEAKER_00: I think you occasionally see these very funny um uh kind of population um extrapolation graphs where they're like, you know, in in 2300, then there will be 400 million Amish in the US and stuff like that.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: But um so anyway, this this conference, the Nashville conference, and it's about the problem of falling birth rates in the West.
35:34
SPEAKER_00: You know, what can we do to um arrest the decline without resorting to the politicians' favorite uh solution, which is of course just replacement migration, you know, just chip in millions of people from the third world.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: Um and I mean, so in the so I spoke at this conference, there was the first one was last year, and I spoke about endocrine disruptors, these really unpleasant hormone-disrupting chemicals that are everywhere, absolutely everywhere, and uh, you know, have various unpleasant uh fertility-reducing effects and health uh negative health effects from reducing testosterone to um causing genital abnormalities and miscarriages and all this kind of stuff.
36:25
SPEAKER_00: Um uh but this this time I'm I'm kind of thinking a bit more philosophically about the nature of the problem because I'm fairly convinced, certainly looking at um the example of Hungary, but also looking at historical examples as well, including um ancient Rome, uh, that actually you can't just pay people to have children.
36:49
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work like that.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: You can't just it doesn't seem to be the case that you can just give people economic incentives to have children.
36:57
SPEAKER_00: So, you know, Hungary's uh Viktor Orban is the kind of poster child actually for kind of right-wing government, for creative right-wing government in the West.
37:06
SPEAKER_00: He has uh you know, Hungary had a terrible, terrible birth rate, like the lowest, I think, in the EU.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: And he wanted to do something about that because you know, the alternative uh he wanted to do something about that without resorting to mass immigration.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: You know, he wanted Hungary still to be hungry.
37:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, you've got to have children.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: So what does he do?
37:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, he gives tax breaks to young people.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh he says, you know, if if you have if you get married and and you have X number of children, two, three, four children, you actually end up never not paying any tax, you know.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: So it's like you can actually, if you have four children, you don't, as a woman, you don't pay any tax.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh interest-free loans for young couples, so they could start a uh you know, a household, buy a house, buy a flat, have somewhere to live, you know, because that you would think that that would um be one major kind of disincentive to having a family, is not having a stable home, not owning your own property, etc.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, what's happened?
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, there's been uh these these um measures were brought in, I think, in about 2017.
38:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh the birth rate in Hungary's barely increased.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: It's increased a tiny amount.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: And actually, it's impossible to know whether the increase is due to uh a broader economic recovery after the 2008 financial crisis.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: So Hungary was very badly hit by the financial crisis, as were a number of other neighboring countries, and they've all seen corresponding increases in the birth rate in recent years.
38:36
SPEAKER_00: So it actually looks like all it is is it's kind of like broader economic recovery.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: There's no way that you can say that these much touted um pronatal measures that that Victor Orban has brought in have actually had any have actually had any effect whatsoever.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: And then the the comparison is is with uh the Roman Emperor Augustus, first Roman Emperor.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: You know, there was a problem uh with the birth rate, native Romans uh weren't reproducing, and he brought in similar measures.
39:06
SPEAKER_00: He tried to incentivize people to get married, to have children, and he also tried to disincentivize various kinds of sort of shame-based methods, you know, to make people feel ashamed of not having children, not getting married, uh, spinsterhood with you know, all that kind of stuff.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: So um, but that didn't work either.
39:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so uh my my argument, I kind of I talk about Bronze Age Pervert about Bronze Age Mindset.
39:33
SPEAKER_00: So there's a very famous, uh, or it's become very famous, this aphorism in Bronze Age Mindset.
39:38
SPEAKER_00: I think it's aphorism number 16, so it's in the first part of the book, where he says, uh chimp in the state of nature never jerks off.
39:46
SPEAKER_00: What does this mean?
39:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh and he talks about the fact that actually it only seems to be in captivity that monkeys end up masturbating.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: And he's making a parallel.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, what he's basically saying actually is that we are chimps in a zoo.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: Human beings are chimps in a zoo.
40:03
SPEAKER_00: The modern world is basically like is a is a prism, really, and we're in captivity.
40:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and he he doesn't really go into great detail about that, but I I kind of pick that up and I I I kind of make some speculations about uh the nature of modern existence and whether there's kind of like a much deeper spiritual malaise um that that might explain why people aren't having children.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's quite open-ended, but basically my my um conclusion at the end of this uh speech that I'm gonna give is that you know there's there is a there is a deep spiritual malaise, there is like a metaphysical malaise, and uh unless we can find some way to address that, uh I don't think that I you know for for all the the good intent in the world, we're not gonna get people to have more children, uh no matter how much money we throw at them.
40:59
SPEAKER_00: And another example of that is South Korea, of course, where you know I mean South Korea is going to disappear within a generation or two.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: The birth rates are so low.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: Um and they're throwing huge amounts of as much money as they can throw at young people to get them to have children, and it's just not working.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think if you know anything actually about what life is like in South Korea, it's pretty hellish, actually.
41:23
SPEAKER_00: It's it's not pleasant.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: It's not pleasant for various for various different reasons.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: Um economically it's very hard, but also there's just a kind of um there is a kind of spiritual malaise that's quite obvious there too.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: So um I think fundamentally that actually what if we don't want to have to rely on mass immigration uh to sustain a positive birth rate, and that is what countries like Britain and Germany and and countries actually throughout the Western world are doing, you know.
41:55
SPEAKER_00: I mean, in Canada, for example, then they have this plan, this insane plan called the Century Initiative that's backed by uh various politicians, former prime ministers, uh, where they want to get the population of Canada to 100 million by the end of the 21st century, right?
42:11
SPEAKER_00: The population's 40 million now, and it's all mass immigration.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: It's just like we are going to import hordes of people from outside the Western world, and yeah, we'll end up with 100 million people in Canada by the end of the century.
42:25
SPEAKER_00: But there won't actually be any Canadians in Canada anymore.
42:27
SPEAKER_00: Um so I mean I think I think it's difficult.
42:32
SPEAKER_00: I think it's difficult.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: And so rather I think that the case actually needs to be made for population retrenchment.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: I do.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that we are gonna reach a point where actually if we don't want to if we don't want to have to rely on mass immigration, if we want to maintain our actual identity, our actual um you know, our countries as they are or as they were, um and we can't get people to have enough children, you can't get native people to have enough children, and like I say, you know, it's it's it's just not it's not it's not easy.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: It's just not easy.
43:12
SPEAKER_00: Um then yeah, I think that what we're gonna have to do is we're gonna have to make a case for degrowth, for population decline.
43:20
SPEAKER_00: And actually, I mean, up until up until now, then the Japanese have been doing that reasonably well.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, Japan is held up as a as a sort of uh object example of of an aging population, population decline, etc.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: But they've actually been quite clever up to now about things and they've embraced automation and and you know, tried to find ways around um ways around, you know, decreasing uh decreasing population.
43:50
SPEAKER_00: But but now I think actually they've opened their doors to started to open their doors to mass immigration, and they're taking in lots of uh Indians and and Malaysians and and Things like that.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: So who knows?
44:01
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean I think that the worship of growth at all costs will be the death of the West.
44:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: I think that if we can't actually find a way to break our addiction to mass immigration, and we are addicted to mass immigration, because it makes the it makes the lines on the graph go up.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's all that matters.
44:23
SPEAKER_00: GDP, population growth.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, why does why does Britain, why should Britain have a population of 70 million people?
44:31
SPEAKER_00: I mean, Britain is Britain is already overcrowded.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: Um I mean you'll get you'll get these these retarded conservative, conservative commentators, people like that guy Tom Harwood, you know, he's like he'll fly into Britain from wherever and he'll take a picture out of the out of the plane window and he'll say, Oh yeah, country looks full, doesn't it?
44:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, because it's it's open fields.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's there's a certain class of person who would happily see the entirety of the British Isles concreted over and turned into housing for immigrants.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a c so it's a complicated, I mean I think it's a complicated problem.
45:08
SPEAKER_00: And it's not one that can be there are no easy answers, there are no comfortable answers to this.
45:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, like we've we've lived this way now for however long, for a century, maybe more, you know, where we've worshipped growth, we've worshipped um positive growth, and we've actually reached this tipping point, inflection point, whatever you want to call it, where if we continue along that path, we will destroy ourselves and uh and things will be things will be totally different.
45:39
SPEAKER_00: Um and there just isn't an easy solution to it.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: Charlie, uh there's uh many areas of that service I want to scratch with you, but I know we're pushed for time and hopefully we'll we'll speak again in the future.
45:51
SPEAKER_02: So this side of the paywall, I want to ask you the question that I ask all of my guests uh before giving you a couple of questions from paying subscribers on Substack.
46:01
SPEAKER_02: Um That question is what have you changed your mind on during the course of your life that you thought was an absolute something that you didn't think was changeable, but then it fell away.
46:12
SPEAKER_02: And what was it that that made you think differently?
46:16
SPEAKER_00: God, that's a that's a good that's a really good that's a really good question.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: That's a really good question.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm not actually I'm not actually sure that I've ever fundamentally changed my mind about something.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't think I so I mean I'm not a reformed leftist, for example.
46:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I being in an academic milia, you know, I mean it I did social anthropology.
46:37
SPEAKER_00: I mean, social anthropology is the most retarded leftist discipline you can possibly imagine.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it it's like a breeding ground for the most confused uh leftists imaginable, people who say this is the craziest kind of stuff.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I I mean I I had to exist in that milieu, and I did, I suppose, certain amount of it might have passed into my brain by osmosis, but I I wasn't uh actively welcoming it.
47:07
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I wouldn't I don't know.
47:09
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I've that's a that's a that's a question I'd actually need to think about for quite some time.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: But I mean I think you know, like I grew up in a in a in a beautiful rural part of England, you know.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean conserv conservatism really and and reverence for the past and for tradition was was just uh a part of of life and was accepted.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: So I don't think that fundamentally I'm I'm really a different person.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean I I could say, for example, that um you know 2016 was important.
47:41
SPEAKER_00: So I was in Oxford doing my D fill in 2016 and the uh European Union referendum happened and then Trump, and uh that was kind of a wake-up for me, really, because I I thought actually, you know, something very strange is going on.
47:58
SPEAKER_00: There's there's a real there's a real madness in the air, and I need to understand it, and I need to understand why the people who are propagating it revolt me as much as they do, you know.
48:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh so that was that was kind of uh that was kind of a big a big thing for me.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: But I don't yeah, I don't know if I've had a kind of like a Damascene moment about anything in particular.
48:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean the pandemic was important as well, I think, but I I mean I had a I probably am a bit of a misanthrope at heart, and I had a a fairly low, fairly low estimation of the man on the street anyway.
48:38
SPEAKER_00: But I mean certainly the the the pandemic.
48:42
SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean I had I had family friends saying uh to my parents that I should be kept under house arrest because I wouldn't um take the vaccine.
48:53
SPEAKER_00: So I mean that was yeah, I mean that was uh that made me realize actually the full extent to which people are complicit in the crimes of of tyrannical government.
49:07
SPEAKER_00: Um and so yeah, maybe that was maybe that's yeah, I mean, maybe that's the scales really did fall from my eyes during the pandemic, and I really did actually realize that um uh ordinary people can be very dangerous and um uh in ways that actually, yeah, maybe I hadn't quite realized before.
49:28
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like seeing a real life example of Hannah Rent's precept, origins of totalitarianism, the banality of evil, that it's not just some puppet master overlord pulling everyone's strings, but rather, you know, it's in those banal actions every day and people's responses to it that can actually lead to an aggregate of quite tyrannical things.
49:51
SPEAKER_02: Uh all right, Charlie.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, that has been uh magnificent.
49:55
SPEAKER_02: And you've mentioned that you've got a book coming out next month.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: Uh where can people find it?
50:00
SPEAKER_00: Uh so it's being published by Passage Publishing.
50:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh that's if you're if you're on Twitter, if you're in RSF, this guy Lomez, Jonathan Kieperman, uh his publishing company says Passage.press.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, they'll be that we're gonna publicize it big time.
50:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, that will be out, I think, at the end of next, at the end of next month.
50:19
SPEAKER_00: Passage.press, uh, The Last Men, Liberalism, and the Death of Masculinity.
50:24
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be coming to the US.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: Actually, we're gonna be doing a book tour, and we're gonna have a big event, I think, in London as well, at some point over the summer to promote the book.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, it's it's it's all systems, all systems going.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get on Joe Rogan as well.
50:39
SPEAKER_02: Charlie, wish you all the best with your book launch.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Look forward to to reading it.
50:43
SPEAKER_02: It sounds it sounds like a very good addition to the your body of work.
50:48
SPEAKER_02: And good luck with getting getting on with Joe Rogan.
50:52
SPEAKER_02: That would be quite the coup for him, of course.
50:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, yeah.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: Big big hearing.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: I I'd be doing him a favour, I think.
51:00
SPEAKER_02: I think so.
51:01
SPEAKER_02: He's struggling for listeners.
51:02
SPEAKER_02: Johnny, it's been an absolute pleasure.
51:05
SPEAKER_02: Uh take good care of yourself and uh hope we're gonna get to speak again in the future.
51:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, we really should.
51:09
SPEAKER_00: It's been a pleasure.
51:10
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
51:11
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
51:17
SPEAKER_02: To keep up to date with all that I am doing, please subscribe to the Thinking Class YouTube channel at ThinkingClass and follow me on XT at thinking classes.
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SPEAKER_02: Thinking Class seeks to understand the civilizational issues we face and why what our leaders do in response matters.
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SPEAKER_02: Here I seek to explore the ideas, values, and culture that made our civilization, those that are unmaking it, and how leaders at our public and private institutions should respond.
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SPEAKER_02: Engage with me on YouTube or XT or write to me at thinkingclasspod at gmail.com to tell me who you want me to speak to and what topics are important to you.
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SPEAKER_02: I look forward to seeing you there and for joining me on this journey.