Latest / The Bob Lefsetz Podcast / David Goggin & Martin Porter

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David Goggin & Martin Porter · The Bob Lefsetz Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome, Come, Welcome back to Bob Leftstats Podcast. My guests
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: today are Martin Porter and David Gogin, who've written the
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: book Buzzed Me In Inside the Record Plant Studios. Gentlemen,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: what was the inspiration for this book?
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Chris Stone Christone was here for inspiration of this book.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: He was a character and he was one of the founders.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: And not only did I know him, you know, twenty
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: twenty years ago, but now maybe about forty five years ago.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: It's when we met when I was a journalist writing
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: writing about recording studios, and the guy could tell a
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: story and we would talk and he would talk and
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: I would and I would say, Chris, someday you gotta
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: write a story. And Chris would say, Marty, I'm never
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: writing a story. This is this is going to the
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: grave with me. These stories are go to the grave.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: That was Everything took place in our record plan was private,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: and we probably promised absolute privacy to our customers. And
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: I kept after him. I'm a journalist. I just kept
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: after him, after and after him. And then then about
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: ten years ago, you know, I was in a different
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: world and doing different things, and Chris was still working,
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: you know, he was always coming up with new ideas,
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: and suddenly he started soften and he had a house
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: in Hancock Park, and I went to visit him in
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: LA and we sat in the backyard. He always mixed
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: a great drink, and he said, and there was his buddy, David.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: David Goggin and David and I know each other for years.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: David was not only a columnist in the recording business
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: when I was an editor and a publisher, but he
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: and Stone were buddies, and he worked for Stone, and
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Stone put us together. He said, all right, you know
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: what it's time, I'll write the book, right, But you
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: guys worked together, so you know, this book got published.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: A Stone is long past but died in what twenty sixteen,
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: But we're the deal that Stone put together from the
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: grave basically.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, David, how did you know Stone?
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I first met Stone in the early eighties and I
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: just come to Los Angeles from a I was running
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: a recording studio down in Newport Beach, and we got
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: to know each other. I think he asked me to,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: you know, see if I could do some promotion for
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: something that he was doing at the studio, and we
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: did that for a while. He's the only person who
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: ever yelled at me because I put out a press
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: release or something a story without checking with him. It
• 2:42
  Speaker 3: didn't cause any problems, but he I learned a lot
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: about Stone at that point, and then around nineteen eighty four,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: he decided that they wanted to move the studio and
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: he asked me to reassure the public and the artists
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: and the musicians and the engineers that the story would
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: continue at the new record plan. So we together worked
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: on a grand finale. We had a big party in
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: December of eighty five. I dubbed it the Last Cham.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: Many of the artists who had been there in the
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: past twenty fifteen years came. It was a concert with
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: Joe Walsh and Stephen Stills, al Cooper. The place was
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: just packed with you can imagine hundreds of people who
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: would work there. And then the groundbreaking took place and
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: the studio moved someplace else on Sycamore. So that's where
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: we started, and then I continued working with him until
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: he cashed out and sold it to Chrysalis and George Martin.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: I photographed the guys having dinner and Stone was a
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: happy man. But he came up with a bunch of
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: other projects that he wanted to do, and I ended
• 4:09
  Speaker 3: I got roped into the World Studio Group, and I
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: and SPARS and a bunch of other industry organizations, and
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: we became friends. And he taught me how to make
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: a martini.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Okay, so Chris Stones put the two of you together.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: What's the next step?
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: Take it away, Marty.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The next step was that we started talking to him.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And David's based in LA. I was in La in
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: those days once a week. I'm a New Yorker, and
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: we just would spend time with him, and he would
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: tell stories of Stone. You know, you know, not only
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: could mix martini, but he could but he could talk.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: And he had a couple of things that were important
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: were important to him. Okay. One, I didn't know he
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: had a partner in the early days. I didn't even
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: know that what the deal was because I had met
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: him after his partner, Gary Calgrin, passed away, so I
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: never knew that. So he said, listen, you know what
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: the story's not about me. Here's the deal, right, if
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: you're going to write a book, I'll tell you. I'll
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: give you the framework for the story. I'll give you
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: the outline. I'll give you some great stories never been
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: told before. But you've got to not only make sure
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: that Gary is recognized and that people know who Gary
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Calger was and Gary cut Kelger and was not only
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: the visionary, the engineer, but you know, but the co founder.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: You got to make sure that people know who Gary was.
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: But also these albums, this studio doesn't didn't happen without
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: every everybody. So you got to get on the phone
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: and talk to other people. This can't be the Chris
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: Stone story. This has got to be the Record Plan story.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: And the Record Plant story includes everybody, from the artists
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: to the producers, to the engineers, the assistant engineers, to
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: the truck drivers, the studio managers, the administrators. Talk to
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: as many people as you can, and that was Stone's goal.
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: So we just started talking and we talked. Ten years later,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: we kept talking and already putting it together. So that
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: was the next step. It was just a lot of stories,
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: and yeah, there were people who didn't want to speak.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: They said it was private, they said that. You know, listen,
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: you know the purpose of Record Plant was there was
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: a closed doors there with locked doors. We didn't want
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: to you know, we didn't want to tell those stories.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: But suddenly as people time went on, people started talking.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: And the more people talk, the more people shared, the
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: more open they were. And Stone also had a lot
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: of influence. Stone had a lot, you know, people trusted Stone,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: they trusted us and to tell the real story. And gradually,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: over time the stories were told and more people shared
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: their experiences.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: How many people said, I got to tell you this story,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: but you can't include it in the book.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. That must be ten or twenty.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: But they told us as much, and I just said,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: let's keep talking. And then they say, well, let's not,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: let's out. I'd like to mention also that this period
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: twenty fourteen before Stone's death. In twenty sixteen, Party and
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: I got the idea that we were trying to get
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: the Hall of Fame Tech Award at the NAM Show,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: and so we started getting in touch with people to
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: participate in that. And Stone made his patio in his
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: place in Los Angeles Hancock Park available, so we had
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: people come in, we filmed them, and it was kind
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: of a tough thing. Part of it was reconnecting with
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: Gary Calgrin's widow, who had not been in touch with
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: the Stones for many many years. I'm not saying they
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: were ill feelings, but I was involved in kind of
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: bringing people together again for this Tech Award. They shot
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: a movie five that movie, we rallied for this award
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: and we got it and there was a big event
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: at NAM and I interviewed before the event for this award,
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Bill Simsic, producer of the Hotel California, and Joe Walsh,
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: and they told stories and Stone was in the audience.
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: And at that at the beginning, Joe Walsh and Stone
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: had not seen each other for quite a while. There
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: was a rift not emotionally but for other reasons that
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: had to separate these two guys. But it was all
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: resolved and Joe jumped off the stage and came over
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: and bent over and hugged Chris Stone. And an hour
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: later Stone got the award and Calgrin got it posthumously
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: and it was presented by Simsic producer and Joe Wolfsh
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: So that actually accelerated the contact with people to rally
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: the groups of people that the individuals and the companies
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: and all the people that had worked for them at
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: Record Plan and then from there it was a lengthy
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: process tracking some of these people down. But I think
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: we got to a lot of people, some of them
• 9:35
  Speaker 3: who are no longer with us. So we were able
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: to scramble and get some stories from people that you
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: can't get anymore.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, is this a labor of love or is this
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: something you actually said, Well, you know, this could catch on.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: I could make some money here.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: It wasn't about the money. No, We've got hopes. We
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: think the result is worthy of, you know, a huge
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: media empire.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Listen, Let's let's be honest. There's not a lot of
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: money in books. You don't spent ten years on a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: book like this and expect to get rich. We put
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of time and money into it as well.
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: It came.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: You know, remember this was a part of my life
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: and a big part of David's life for even longer.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: You know, in the late seventies, when I was editing
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: a trade magazine called Proson News, I wasn't really aware
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: that I was in a very special time, in this
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: very special place. And as sort of as you get
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: older and as time goes on, I realized, wait a minute,
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: you know, there was something there. There was something bigger
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: than just a job writing interviewing studio owners and engineers
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: and producers. It was, you know, it was a special time.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: And more I look back on it, you know, I
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: felt a bit of an obligation, a bit of a
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: you know, a feeling that you know what I was.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: I had an obligation to tell some of these stories
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: to people and to really share it, because you know,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: people didn't. If you ask people, you know, do you
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: know any recording studios, they'll say, yeah, I've heard, I
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: know Abbey Road. You know, not a lot of studios
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: are known by were named by a beatle or had
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: an album named after it. And then you ask them
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: what else do you know? They know elect electric ladies studios,
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: They know that, right, But then you go any deeper.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: You got to be pretty tweeked out and pretty nerdy
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: to no recording. So is then you start talking about
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: the age of analogue, and you're talking about what it
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: was like in those days and how it worked and people.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: I started hoping, and I realized, you know what, that
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: was a special time, and you know what, I was
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: there and I know people who were there, and so
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: it was a labor of love and it still was
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: a labor love. We're not done, you know. Yeah, do
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: we hope it turns into something bigger? Yeah, we want
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: to tell our story in the biggest possible way. But
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and we're happy to that people like you want to
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: share share it with your audience. But it is a
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: labor love and that's my wife unless she gave up
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: a lot of time for us doing interviews, David me
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: on interviews and a lot of time writing this thing.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Okay, Well, now that the book is out, are you
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: finding that people are reacting coming out of the woodwork
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and more people know we're interested or is it an
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: uphill climb to make people aware of the record plan
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: in your book?
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: Marty, I think you can answer this. But we've got
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: this book started out called record Plant Diaries for reasons
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: that we will get into maybe maybe not. We decided
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: that it was a better title, buzz me in, and
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: we have a Facebook page. But it's just growing what
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: are they called greatly every week with new followers and
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: people coming out of the woodwork and asking questions and
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: then saying, oh, I was there, you know, and it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: it's become quite the rallying cry for people. So many
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: people we try to figure out how many people worked
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: at the Record plan and in its history, and it
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: must be among the thousands, and some of them started
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: out cleaning toilets and today are billionaires. So that's that
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: was the proving ground for people.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I got to stop you for a second because we're
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: all prone to hyperbole. Billion dollars, there's a lot of money.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me about somebody who really started cleaning toilets?
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: Was that successful?
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: Well? I don't, I don't know if well, listen, the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: only billionaire that I know about who worked the record
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: was Jimmy Ivan, right, right, did Jimmy did Jimmy? Did
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Jimmy start cleaning toilets? I know we started as a
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: runner a general. I know Jack Douglas started as janitor.
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: I'm not as sure exactly if that meant putting up
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: in the toilet and wiping it out, wiping out the bowl.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: But you know what they did, some of they did
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: some pretty damn menial, crappy jobs. Right. So the only
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: billionaire that I do know is who started a record
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: plant was Jimmy Shoes IV.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Okay, those inside know that he was called Jimmy Shoes.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Can you explain why.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: He had fancy shoes and that's where all his money went,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: the small amount he was making as a general. I
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: love that term too. Uh. We called them runners, we
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: called them gophers, all sorts of things. But he was
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: a general. He started out at the bottom. He was
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: a pretty uh you know, feisty kid. When you know
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: his first one of his first big gigs was with
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: with John Lennon, and that was the lost weekend. He'd
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: never lived, stayed in a hotel. He'd never been in
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: an airplane. He ends up flying to Los Angeles and
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: staying at the Beverly Hilton and because Beverly Hills Hotel.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: And he attributes his success as a businessman to the
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: way record plant was run. And that was run by
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Chris Stone and Gary Calgren and Roy Cicala, New York.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Of course, they used to have buttons made that said
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: j F J jump for your job. The pressure was
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: on if you were in, if you were the second engineer,
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: and all you had to do was push the tape
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: machine button. Your job was on the line every minute.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: They knew that these clients were the ones that were
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: staying around the clock, and there were no clocks at
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: their record plant.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Listen, they had a really good gig going the Stone
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: and Calgrin and Sicala, they knew one thing. There were
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of young kids who would work cheap or
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: free just to get in the door, to get close
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: to the artists. Right. And so when you have that
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: opportunity and you're an entrepreneur and you're running a business
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: and you have all this young hungry talent that are
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: working around the clock just to work in a recording studio.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: What an opportunity from a business standpoint. And you know what,
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: you got to test those kids out. You got to
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: push those kids to the limit. And you know what,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: some of them don't make it. Most of them don't
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: make it, but some of them do make it. And
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: that was that was the secret sauce of Record Plant
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: where those young kids who came in the door Kelgrin,
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: you know, Calgrin kid found out an amazing thing is
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: one thing to run a recording So you need fancy equipment,
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: You needed big consoles, you needed big tape machines, you
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: needed expensive microphones. What you really needed was a kid
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: who knew how to wheel a hammer and build shit. Right.
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: They needed to build gobos, They needed to tear down
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: walls to build take a door off, so you get
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: a piece of equipment off. So the truth of the
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: matter was that kids would do it. You'd had to
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: find a kid who was willing to do anything, and
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: there were plenty of them.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Okay, just you know, there's legends of people you mentioned
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: who started at the bottom. How many people washed out
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that we haven't heard of.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I think most of them did. I don't have a number,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: but think about it. It tough gig. You weren't making
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: any money. In fact, you know, in the early days,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: Kelgrin had this concept that the kids would work for free.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: You know, Brooks Arthur and Phil Ramon had a studio
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: up up in west Chester, New York nine went four
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: where Bruce Springsteen worked and a lot of other artists
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: work where they got all these kids paying them to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: be assistants. So it was you know, it was a
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: great time. So how many washed out? A lot of them.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: But the kids who stuck it out, and the kids
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: who worked and proved that they could serve the artist
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: who could had the right attitude and had ears and
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: learned could learn audio chops stayed and many became successful
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: and many became famous. We've talked about iveen as being
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: the billionaire, but not everybody was a billionaire. Some became
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: big artists. Todd Rumgrey was an assistant engineer in New York.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: So not only did some become artists, but many became
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: producers as well, and obviously very successful engineers.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Let's start at the beginning with kelgrim One thing that
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: you emphasize in the book that I've never seen previously
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: is that he was a great engineer, an innovative engineer,
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: which he does not get credit for. Would you bring
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: up in the book can you tell me about that?
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I know Jim Keltner and he goes back to
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: the very very early days of working with Kelgrin. I
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: like to think of Jim Keltner as the heartbeat record
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: plan because he was there at the beginning, and he
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: was there till the end, and he was very close
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: to Kelgren. And you know, he speaks about the magical
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: ability of him, of Kelgrin at the console to be
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: able to rope together all these sounds, set things up
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: in the studio and make it happen like people were
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: just mesmerized at the way he he can wave his
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: hands over the console and move the faders and get
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: sounds out of what might have ended up as chaos.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Well, but you know, let's start at the beginning, because
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: the beginning was a studio called Mayfair on Seventh Ave
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: in New York. The Summer of Love nineteen sixty seven,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: Algrin was working in the studio and he was working
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: for three bands at the same time. He was working
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: for lou Reed and Velvet Underground doing White Light, White Heat.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: He was working for Frank Zappa doing We're only needed
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: for the money, and he was working with Jimmy Hendrix
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: on a couple of songs. And he he could keep
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: not only could he keep up with the artists and
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: work around the clock with the arts and juggle the
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: egos of all those three arts. Remember Zappa and Louie
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: didn't like each other in those days. And be able
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: to juggle those two artists at the same time in
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: the same studio was an art form. But Kelgrin had
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: worked for his producer, his producer, and that we could
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: there should be a book, there should be a movie
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: about him named Tom Wilson, and Tom Wilson was block
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: book Mayfair and he was working with his two artists,
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: which were Velvet Underground, and Frank Zappa at that time.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: But Kelgrin knew how to record, and his talents were
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: you know, remember when you're an engineer, not only do
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: you need to know how to get a great sound,
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: but you know how to stay cool, stay calm, and
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: just work yourself to death. And Kelgrin had an incredible
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: work ethic. But through Tom Wilson, and we'll hopefully we
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: could talk a little bit more about Tom in a moment.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Through Tom Wilson, he it did an album called sky
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: Pilot for Eric Burton, all right, and that's a famous song,
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: and for a lot of reasons, obviously, not only because
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: of its anti war theme, but because of the sounds
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: that he was able to provide to Eric Burton. It
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: was a sound called phasing, all right. If you listen
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: to that record, if you really want to understand music
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: in the late sixties, remember you're dealing with a period
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: before there were digital effects, before there was any kind
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: of ability to press a button and make wacky sounds, right,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: there was before even synthesizers. You had to be able
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to jockey the sound the analog tape machine and play
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: around with with the reels and create and create sounds
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: one of those sounds that had been knocking around for
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: years was called phasing, all right, and what what the
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: what the engineer would do is it would take one
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: of the reels and and and jockey it almost you know,
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: almost like a disc jockey, but with the two reels.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And Kalgun got really good at phasing. And the work
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: that he did with Eric Burden got you know, got
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: him a lot of attention, and not only got him
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: attention with with a lot of the bands in Townies
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: particularly got him attention with with Chas Chandler who was
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: managing uh managing Jimmy. And when Jimmy heard heard that work,
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: and when the words started spreading that this kid knew
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: how to phase like he did, he got a lot
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: of attention because remember it was it was it was
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: summer love, it was psychedelic period, it was crazy effect.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: Getting crazy effects, whether their visual or sonic, was what
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: it was all about. And an engineer who could do
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: that like Calgrin started to getting the business. And not
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: only was did he become an amazing engineer, but he
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: was innovative and he was fearless and true and that
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: was that was what made him special.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: We got a back up here just a little bit
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: to explain how Kilgrin met Stone.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, before we get there, when he's working
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: at Mayfeir, has he met Stone yet?
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, that was the moment actually, Dave, Okay, I just
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: want to I.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: Want to go sideways before we come back. Tom Wilson's
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: a fascinating story. A black man in white rock and roll.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: It was way before there were so many images. But
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: he produced all the Bob Dylan records. He produced as
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: you say, Zappa, you know what was his special sauce?
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: Well, his special sauce was depends you talk to right,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: h If you talk to some people, it was he
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: He was the ultimate Schmuezer if you talk to others.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: He was a brilliant producer, what Stone told us, because
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Stone knew him really well. He knew how to let
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: the artist do do their thing. He gave them room
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: and what what you know, But he was but the
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: thing that you know, remember he came to he was
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: working with Calgrin after he was already famous, right, he
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: had became famous by you know, by turning Dylan onto
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: electric you know, at Colombia. He you know, he saved
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: sounds of silence for Simon and Garfunkel, but you know
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: by going back in the studio and remixing it. He
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: was a famous dude man. And he was a black
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: guy who was working in white rock and roll at
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: those days, which was unique. It came back to hurt
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: him and later in his career when he got stereotype.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: But at that time he was hot and he was
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: not only did what he was working for, you know,
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: for Columbia, he went on, he did a tremendous amount
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: of folk music. Then he's then it was when he
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: was working with Zappa and working with with Uh, with
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Lou Reed, he was you know, he was making some
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: great records. But what was amazing about when he was
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: so well connected? So when when Stone Uh? When when
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Stone met Kelgren at Mayfair, when they when the two
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: of them met Kelgrin. Kelgrin had this idea that he
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: could build a studio. Not only could he build a
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: great studio that like somebody had never built before, but
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: he could get business. The way he was going to
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: get business was because Tom Wilson knew everybody in town.
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: And it was gonna be by cutting in Wilson, by
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: giving him a piece of the action, by giving a
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: piece of the business that they knew that they were
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: going to be able to bill studio that was not
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: only going to uh serve Jimmy Hendrix, but was gonna
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: fill a void in the New York marketplace. And Wilson
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: not only played a role in the history of music,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: but certainly there wouldn't have been a record Plant without
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: without Tom Wilson.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, just to stay here. It's a little different threat.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Once you hit the eighties, the record producers are really
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: handsomely compensated, whereas earlier some of them worked for the label.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: How did it end for Tom Wilson? Did he have
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: any money? Did he burn out after his famous period?
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: What happened to him?
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: It's kind of a sad story. Stone told us about this.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: I mean, it got really bad for him. And he
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: was one of the early investors when they when they
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: formed the business of record Plant on forty fourth Street
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: in New York, Kelgrin and Stone met because their wives,
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: one was pregnant and one had just had a baby,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: and that was the reason they had a little party
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: and Kelgrin, uh Well, Stone asked if he could come
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: by and see where he worked. He came in, he
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: found out that Kelgrin was making two hundred bucks a
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: week and he's working with those three or it is,
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: and he said, look, you need a raise. First of all,
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: he got him a raise, and then they decided they
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: needed one hundred grant And where's that money gonna come from?
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of money in those days. Stone was
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: friends with Ankie Marty you tell the rest of the
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: Hankee story.
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there were four partners when record Plants started. There
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: was Calgrin and Stone we talked about. There was Tom Wilson,
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: but none of them had the money that it took
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: to pull this off, right. But Stone had a roommate
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: named Ben Johnson from college who was who had a
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: new wife. Her name was Ankie her originally Ankie Johnson,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: but original name before she was divorced from Charles Revson
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: of Revlon Fame. Right. And not only did Stone worked
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: for Revlon and before that, well before he started a
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: record plant, but he knew that he knew that Ankie
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Revson really loved the New York hip be seen. She
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: was you know, remember she was a divorcede. She uh,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: but she was loaded and she put her put her
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: money into interesting business ventures. One Uh that that you
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: that everybody will know was she was one of the
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: prime investors in hair, the Broadway musical Hair, and she
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: was making tons of money that time from this hippie world.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: So when Stone came to her with the idea that
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: he was going to build a recording studio, Ankie was
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: ready to write a check. She was just you know,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: why not. So it was one hundred grand to build
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: the studio. So it was the four partners and the
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: main the main partners, the ones who owned most of
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: the business was Ankie Revsen, uh A Johnson and uh
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: and uh Gary Calgrin the talent. Stone was the business
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: brains and and Wilson was only in it for a
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: piece so he could so he could, uh you know,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: bring in the artists. But when you talked before and
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: you asked the question Bob about about Wilson, Wilson's career,
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: you know, uh came to a pretty abrupt then by
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: the time we were we were into the seventies, you know,
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: its seventies. He just wasn't He was stereotyped, as you know,
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: as a black rock and roll producer. He he had
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: an idea and a dream to build to do a
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: a rock opera that that never came fulfilled. It became
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: a sad story and ultimately Built died early of a
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: massive heart attack. You know, So his career came to
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: an abrupt nd. And but boy, the early days rock
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: and roll wouldn't have been what it was without Tom Wilson,
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: and certainly there wouldn't have been a record plant.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: Okay, we're ultimately going to get to the record plant
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: on Third Street. Los Angeles is a giant suburb in
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: most cases, but New Shirk is very dense. They put
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: the studio in an office building. How does that work
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: in terms of you know, sound reinforcement, et cetera.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: That's an interesting angle because Kelgrin was good at finding locations.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: How you're going to finance it or what are you
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: going to do with it then is a problem. But
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: he was hanging out with Hendrix at a nightclub nearby,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: and Hendricks wanted to have a nightclub studio. He wanted
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: to take that atmosphere of jamming with his friends and
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: into the studio and get it recorded properly so that
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: he could continue his career as a recording artist. So
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: now's your turn, Marty.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Well, remember there were studios in New York, you know,
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: but mostly they were label owned studios in those days, right,
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: and the times were changing, and the artists wanted freedom
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: to work in a private space away from their corporate overlords. Right,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: so that you know, it was Jimmy had it. Jimmy
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: had it. It started. It all starts with Jimmy Hendrix.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: Remember the record planning store starts with Jimmy Hendrick. It
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: starts in New York. Hendricks had done some recording on
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: what would become Electric Electric ladyland in in England. He
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: came over to New York and he told Calgarn he
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: needed a studio to finish the album Stone Stone and
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: Calgrin already talking. The money came in from Aankee. Wilson
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: was involved, and the idea is are, okay, we got
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: to find a space. Now on the west side you're
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: talking about the west side of Times Square right now,
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: there was a nightclub called The Scene. Steve Paul's the Scene,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: all right. Now. The Scene is another historic rock and
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: roll uh a facility whatever you're wanna call location, all right,
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: because that's where some of the most amazing jam sessions
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: ever took place. You have Jim Morrison jamming with Jimmy.
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: You have you know, you know the Winter Brothers Jammy,
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: you have you know if you Linda, Linda Eastman, Nay Turner, McCartney,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: the house photographer, you have tiny Tim playing the Mandal,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: amazing stuff. Rick Darren's you're playing. There was an amazing
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: place and it was a and Jimmy loved jamming there
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: and so and it became the Not only was it
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: named the scene, it became a scene. So kelgar knew, okay,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know what I got Hendrix here, I got all
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: these musicians, like David said Kelgwun's a genius at finding
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: the location. You know, how do you become how do
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: you find successful business? How do you build a good story? Location? Location, location,
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: So so Kelgrit said, Okay, I gotta find a building
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: within a walking distance of the scene. Right, So the
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: scene was on forty sixth Street. He found this office
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: building on forty fourth Street, three twenty one West forty
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: fourth Street off eighth Avenue. Right Now, that that building
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: itself was historic. It was it was the old Vitagraph building.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: That's the if you know New York, that side of
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: New York was the Film District that. You know, it's
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: not Hollywood, but there was. That's where the movie business started, remember,
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: and that's where all the the you know, the film
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: businesses had their building. So that was the Ftograph Building
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: and Fighter Graphs famous for a couple of reasons, but
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: one of it is they developed talking the talking technology
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: that Warner end Up used for al Joson. Right, So
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: that building had audio in its bones. Right. But you know, listen,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: you could soundproof of any space with enough wood and
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: you know padding. It's not not unique. But Calgrin found
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: this space. And the tory story we tell in the book,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: which is, you know which one of the great stories
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: that Stone told us early on about the really early
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: days was they didn't want to make a deal on
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the lease on that building to build the studio unless
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: they knew that Jimmy was all in. So they came
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: up with his plan, right to get Jimmy over to
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: the forty fourth Street to show him the space. But
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: it was just an empty giant you know, you know,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: it was an office building. It was an the office building.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: So they get Kelgrin had a piece of chalk, right,
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: and he was a great salesman, so he walks walks
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: Hendricks into the space and he says, all right, you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: just imagine what the space is gonna look like. You're
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: gonna have beautiful hippie Moroccan cloths, and you're gonna have
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: paintings by Dolly and Warhol, and we're gonna have everything here.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: It's gonna beautiful. It's gonna be it's gonna be a
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: real living room. It's gonna be a beautiful space, and
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: it's gonna be unique. It's not gonna be like anything
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: you ever saw. People and Stone and he pitched. They
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: pitched each other and they worked on the pitch, and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: Kelgrin basically sold Jimmy on this empty space with a
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: piece of chalk in his mouth and a sales pitch.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: And once once Jimmy said I'm in, they signed the
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: lease and they went to work and they built the
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: place within about four or five months. By by the
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: spring of nineteen sixty eight, the place was ready to open.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: So it was it was a unique story. It was
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: a unique place, but it was it was all built
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: on a fundamental premise that a studio needed to be
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: more a living room than a lab. It needed to
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: be a place where you could be comfortable, where you
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: could jam, where you could be relaxed, and nobody was
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: breathing down your neck. Remember in David, you know, you
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: know what the studios were like in those days. You know,
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: you've talked about it a lot. They were you know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe David whytn't you to share what was it?
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: What were they like in those days?
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: Well, they were like Abbey Road probably where everybody's wearing
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: lab coats, and that the sessions were regulated by the union.
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: So if you were in the middle of a Hendrick
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: solo at noon and it was time to have lunch,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: you know, the plugs would have been pulled and you said, no,
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: we have to continue after lunch. So this studio record
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: Plant changed that. Kilgrin walked around with that shock and
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: he said, here's gonna here's where we're going to have
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: the control room, here's the isolation room, here's going to
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: be the canteen. Whatever. That was part of the sales job.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: But as far as the actual building of the studio,
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: you know, kelgern knew what he wanted to have sounding
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: and record Plant always had the best acousticians that could
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: manipulate those spaces in the best way. Possible to capture
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: the music that these guys had in their heads. The
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: translation of what they had in their mind into reality
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: was what the record plant was all about.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, when the record plant opens, how many studios in
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: how big a space? I mean every studio is different.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Some there's a very small lounge, a control room and
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: a room for recording. Others have multiple rooms, they have offices.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: When it opens, what is there?
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: There's one studio and an office. That's it, right, And
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: and yes it was unique. It had it had cool
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: uh you know, cool cloths, curtains on the wall, and
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: the concept was making make it like olivery. But it
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: had one thing that was very unique. It had a
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: twelve track recorder. Right now, remember you know it was
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: just the very beginning of multi track recording, right and
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: you know A track would had just come into town.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: And Mayfair, which we talked about, had one of the
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: first A tracks in town. In fact, it was the
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: first time Jimmy worked on an A track was over
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: at Mayfair. But the skull the Scully had come up
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: with a concept for a twelve track recorder and it
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: was a very unique idea. Not only did it give
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: give more tracks for the artists to record on. But
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: it also uh gave them a unique way of taking
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: an a track tape right, bringing it into the studio,
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: putting and be giving the artists a chance to add
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: four more tracks to the recording. So it was that
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: Scully that really was was a major draw for Record
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Plan And they had a console that was called Data Mix,
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: which was also relatively new, but it was it was.
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: It was the early days of multi track recording and
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: having those more tracks was a huge draw.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, you're in the profound business setting the scene here.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: We live in a completely different era. We talk about
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Jimmy Shoes being a billionaire. At the time, you're talking
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: about if you were a successful musician, top tier, you
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: were as rich as anybody in America. Okay, that is
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: not the case anymore. They are starting this studio to
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: what degree are they economically driven We are going to
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: start a studio, we're going to get rich, or they
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: just say we like to work. This is a business.
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: They're going to charge a lot and they're going to
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: keep the artist working twenty four hours a day and
• 39:06
  Speaker 3: there's nobody's going to look at the clock because there's
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: no clocks. The money's going to be rolling in, and
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: there's money going to be made from all the tape
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: that they're selling. These guys are going through two inch
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: reels of tape, box loads, box loads of this, and
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: the record company's sense that something is happening and they
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: want to make money too. So the money is flowing
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: into the studio and that doesn't stop for a long time.
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: And the record Plant was notorious for having budgets that
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: so what it goes through the roof. The record company
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: didn't worry they're going to get the money back. When
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: you look at some of the record sales over a
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Marty's got those figures better than me. One hundred million
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: records was not unheard of for one album.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: Well, and again you're talking about one hundred million albums
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: from seventy six for the three albums that recorded Record Plan.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: But let me give you let me answer your question
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: this way, Bob. The studio sold for over a million
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: dollars within fourteen months of being opened. There was a
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: company called TVC. It was a cable company out of
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Pennsylvania that had a vision. Right, they said, we have
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: a cable television is coming in right. This is the
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: early Remember This is another revolution is happening at the
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: same time as STEREO's happening, and the record business is
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: taking off, starting to take off. Cable television is taking off,
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: and they had a concept. They said, you know what,
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: we want to have music television. Somebody at TVC had
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: this concept for long before MTV for music television. So
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: how do we get into the music business. We got
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: to buy a recording studio. Now, Ankee was pretty connected.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Ankye made some connections. They stole the Gary Kelgren became
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: a millionaire within fourteen months of having that studio open.
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: And it was that was that that money that poured in.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: A lot of the business came in because of Jimmy Hendrix.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: The studio was busy round the clock. But it was
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: that that purchase by TVC, who ultimately sold the Warrant
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Communications and which became Warner Cable, was what really made
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the day. And answering your question, Stone was in it
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: for the money. Remember, so was Calgrin. Remember he was
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: working with Frank Zachsba on an album called We're Only
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: in It for the Money, right, Kelgrin and Stone were
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: in it for the money, and and yes, Kelgrin was
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: a brilliant artist and in his own way from a
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: business standpoint, Stone was a brilliant artist, right. But they
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: both had ambitions. They wanted cars, they wanted big houses.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Ultimately they wanted boats, and they had found the way
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: for it to happen. And when that sale happened, all right,
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: When that when that big sale happened, suddenly it opened
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: opened the eyes of a lot of other would be
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: entrepreneurs in town and around the country that there was
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: money to be made in the studio business. And uh
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: and it led to a boom in development of studios.
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: You know, it was not surprising that Jimmy Hendrick's management
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: wanted wanted me to build his own studio, Electric Lady Studios,
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: because clearly an outgrowth of the success of of Record
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Plan and all the work Jimmy Hendrix did. There.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, two things. One did they build to sell? Did
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: they want to sell? Or was it just like, wow,
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: here's an opportunity. Also, you delineate in the book The
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: Studio then goes to a number of chapters talking about
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania Cable Company selling to Warner warn or not
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: really wanted to own the studio. Can you play that out.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: For us, Yeah, I could play that for you. Stone
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: and Stone and Kelgrin knew something that that the cable
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: company didn't know, right, you know, and if they didn't
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: tell them, one was their number one artist that was
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: keeping them fat and happy, was about to leave and
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: build his own studio. Right, you know, there was under construction.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: So you could about to lose your biggest customer, right,
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: your calling cards. So they were about to lose that.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: And two they also were aware of something even more significant.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: The record business was moving to the West coast, right,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: it was moving out of New York. The business was
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: hurt heading to LA and they realized, you know what,
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: They made a trip out to l A and they
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: their eyes open what was going on out there, and
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: they knew there was money out there, and they knew
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: that was their next move. So so they sold out
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: at the right time. And you know, it's all timing,
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: you know, did they did they do anything wrong?
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: No?
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: You know what, the studio stayed incredibly successful for a
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: long time. Warner didn't want to be in the studio
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: business for a lot of reasons, but one of the
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: reasons is it was a shitty business for a big
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: record label, and by the way. Their artists didn't want
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: to record in label on studios anymore. So it was working.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: It was it was moving away from that that train.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: But Stone and Kelgar knew one thing they were they
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: wanted to move out west. The business was moving out west.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: The opportunity for growth was out west, and there was
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: a There was also other problems with New York. It's
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: an expensive place to operate. It's tight space. You know.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: They ended up building a second studio in New York
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: on the first floor, but then to save Jimmy's business,
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: they opened another studio on the tenth floor. It was
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't there wasn't a lot of room
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: to move in New York. La had a lot more
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: room to move and it was a lot. It was
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: a whole you know, green field for the studio business.
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, talking about the studio itself, you ran prosund Audio News.
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: It became an arms race that lasted into the eighties. Okay,
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: you got to have this first. It was yet to
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: have a better machine, had to have more tracks. We
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: ultimately get to twenty four. We want a stood oh
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: you know, we go through boards ultimately solid state you know,
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: sssal one with the you know, moving faders. How much
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: of a factor was the cost of this equipment and
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: keeping up with that cost.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: That's where Chris Stone comes into the picture. He figures
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: out ways that they can satisfy Gary Kelgrin's lust to
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: be a rock star. And one example is that, you
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: know Kelgrin. First he bought of Rolls Royce and the
• 45:43
  Speaker 3: license plate was greed. Stone goes shopping, says he's got
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: some cash too. He goes to the Mercedes dealership and
• 45:53
  Speaker 3: he's looking at their top of the line car and
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: he's trying to figure out how he's going to pay
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: for it and finagal this and finagal that, and the
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: salesman says, you know, did you ever think about leasing
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: a car? And this nobody knew about this new opportunity.
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: Stone leased the car, his license plate red deduct and
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: then he pioneered leasing recording equipment. If the you know,
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: a million dollar console, a two hundred thousand dollars maybe
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: more tape machine, very expensive stuff. Leasing opened that up
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: so that you could keep refreshing this stuff. Because it
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: was a battle of the technology at the time, and
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: the artist knew about this, the producers knew about this.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: They wanted to be have access to the latest tools
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: to keep making these million selling albums, and record Plant
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: became the place where you could get whatever you wanted.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: And that expands into the hotel rooms and the other
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: concierge and five star accommodations that fit in with the
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: latest equipment and the idea of financing this stuff. That's
• 47:14
  Speaker 3: where that's where Stone was. He was making it up
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: as he went along.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so let's you know, they're in Los Angeles. We'll
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: get into the establishment that earlier. But picking up on
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: your theme, he leases his Mercedes, he approaches API, he
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: approaches stud or whatever, blah blah blah. Does he sell
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: them on leasing or have they ever thought of it?
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Marty probably know the business angle, you're better than me.
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: But my impression is that this was the beginning of
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: that that type of creative financing.
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: That's where it was an you know, we talked, let
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: me put it frame it this way to you, Bob,
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: audio was the technology revolution of the time. Living in
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: a technology revolution now AI and you know, and but
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: those that was the audio revolution. You know, it was
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: a time where these guys were selling a lot of stuff.
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: People you know, Moran's was selling high fives and thrends,
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: and you know Pioneer, the high five was hot. Professional
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: equipment was hot. These guys were starting to make a
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: lot of money and they were suddenly everything was new,
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: everything was an opportunity. So if they listen, if somebody
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: came in and said I can lease the gear and
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: make payments, they were going to take it. You know,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: we talked a lot about this book. You know, listen,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: Sex Drugs rock and Roll. Yes, record Plant. The story
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: of Record Plant is sex, drugs and rock and roll,
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: But there was really a much more significant part of
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: the story that it should be should be added. When
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: we talked about this story, it was sex drugs, rock
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: and roll and audio and it was that was the
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: ultimate attraction of Record Plan. You had to have the
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: latest audio gear, the latest equipment, because that's what turned
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: on the artists. That's what really got the artists excited.
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: Yes they wanted to be comfortable, Yes they wanted all
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: the amenities, but they really wanted the ultimate sound. And
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: when when Stone and Calgrin moved to La there was
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: one other individual comes into play and significant character and
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: not only the history of Record Plan, but the history
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: of audio and professional recording. A guy named Tom Hidley
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: who passed away recently. Tom Hiley was an audio engineer
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: in LA and he'd worked in New York at A
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: and R. But he was working out in a studio
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: called TTG in LA where he was working with artists,
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: you know, like a lot of Tom Wilson's artists on
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: the West Coast were, you know, were TTG customers. And
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: this guy was a genius. He worked with He worked
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: in high fi with mad Men Months. I don't know
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: if you remember that name, but he also Madman Months,
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: but he you know, he worked for months. His most
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: famous product was he built a car stereo for Frank
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: Stinastra so Frank could listen to his his his cuts
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: on the way out to Palm Springs, all right, So
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: that was Tom Hitley and Tom Hilly was a genius.
• 50:25
  Speaker 2: Tom Hidley not only could build was building sixteen and
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: twenty four track tape machines before anybody. But he had
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: a TTG these amazing, amazing loud speakers that he developed,
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: right and you know what really attracted Stone and Kelgrin
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: to going out to the West Coast was that Jimmy
• 50:44
  Speaker 2: came back from working out a TTG and told Kelgrin,
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: you gotta go out to LA and meet this guy Hittley.
• 50:50
  Speaker 2: He's a genius. He's got some speakers. I've never heard
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: anything like it. So Kelgrin and Stone got on a plane.
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: They went out there and they heard that. They not
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: only they meet Hitdley, but they heard these loud speakers.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: They knew those loud speakers in the right control room
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: would blow any artists and producer's mind and get their business.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: So they they not only did they decide to build
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: the studio at that point, they they hired Hitly Away
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: and Hily. Hilly and Kelgrin as a pair were were
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: a brilliant pair. They build the revolution in the acoustical
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: environment of a studio. Hitley's Hitly's loud speakers were were
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: famous and they became They became noted around the world.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: He Hilly ultimately put put those speakers in over a
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: thousand studios. They became the reference monitors of not only
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: that time, but many of them are still in place.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: There's you know, David, you could tell the story about
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: you know about the James Gang in the and those speakers,
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: because it's one of the funny. One of the funny
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: stories of the early days of Record Plant was how
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: Hitly went out and built those speakers for for Kelgren
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: and Stone.
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: Well, they're Bill Simsick is recording The James Gang with
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: his good buddy Joe Walsh. These guys want to play loud.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: They want to record loud. They want to put to
• 52:17
  Speaker 3: the red line all the time, and when they hear
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: it back, they want to get blown away. I mean literally,
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: they just want to be blown away. So every day
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: they were in their playback, they had a rack of
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: these expensive I think tan Oi monitors in the studio,
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: and invariably, every day a couple of them would just,
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: I mean actually blow off the wall. They would demolish
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: themselves and they'd call Stone and say, look, you know
• 52:50
  Speaker 3: we blew the monitors out again. Stone would say, oh,
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: that's okay, we'll get you some new ones tomorrow. The
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: record company will pay for it. So there was actually
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: an unlimited supply of speakers, but it just got out
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: of hand. It was like every day they got to
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: replace the monitors. They called in Hitdley and said in
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: his task Tom, can you build a monitor that can
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: withstand the sounds of Bill Simsic and Joe Walls. She
• 53:21
  Speaker 3: was working on a song called the Bomber and it
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: was just it was just ruining every speaker. Hidley came up.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: One was a monitor that could withstand the levels that
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: they wanted to listen to and end of that chapter.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: But they but not only did they build these monitors
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: and these big they were these big monitors with big
• 53:46
  Speaker 2: waffers and these big you know they call monkey monkey
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: lips monitors and these big protrusions in them, and they
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: build them into the soffits. But Hitley knew how to
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: build them in a control room, so they sounded amazingly.
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: He built this was called the compression ceiling that really
• 54:03
  Speaker 2: when the artist was sitting behind the console, that sound
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: was going right at the sweet spot right where they
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: were sitting. So the experience of a playback in a
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: hilly Calgrin control room was unlike anything else anybody had
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: ever heard. And that's you know, not only do those
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: monitors change the way people recorded record Plant, but like
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: I said, nearly a thousand studios later they were Hitley
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: built studios after we left Record Plant all over the world.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: So how did these two characters get along? Kel Grin
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: and Stone.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: Oh they got along glorious Stone, Stone's wife, who advised
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: Kelgrin's wife about how to have help her with the
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: birth of her first child. Uh told us that Kelgrin
• 55:07
  Speaker 3: just wanted to be a rock storm. He wanted everything.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: He wanted boats, he wanted new studio rooms, new monitors, everything.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: Their job was to satisfy Kelgrin and Uh, and they
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: did it as far as it was. It was a
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: constant back and forth pool between Kelgrin wanting more and
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: Stone going, how the hell are we going to pay
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: for this? They originally they wanted to have a he
• 55:36
  Speaker 3: wanted we're going to have a record We got to
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: have a swimming pool at the Record Plant in la Well.
• 55:43
  Speaker 3: Stone convinced him that maybe a jacuzzie would do. Uh
• 55:47
  Speaker 3: the jacuzzi room, and the jacuzzie became a hot bed
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: what do you call it when it's wet hot a
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: hot water bed of activity at the Record Planet. Legendary
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: stories of people saying, Oh, let's go use the jacuzie,
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: opening the door and going, oh my god, is that
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: Rod Stewart, Who's that over there in the corner? Oh God,
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: what's all that stuff floating? In the water. Oh no,
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: thank you, not today. You know, Buddy Miles said that
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: many babies of his babies were probably berthed in the
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: in the jacuzzie. I know this gets kind of raunchy sounding,
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: but these guys had a lot of money, the artists,
• 56:29
  Speaker 3: the producers, the record companies, and they also needed to
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: blow off some steam the pressure of making a record. Bob,
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: you've been in a recording studio, you know how exciting
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: it can be if you're just waiting in the outside
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: the vocal booth and you know that the guy in
• 56:49
  Speaker 3: there is cutting a record that everybody in the world
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: is going to hear in two weeks or six weeks
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: or whatever how long it takes. It's a it's a
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: supercharged environment. And if you've just had a big hit
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: and you got to hit another, get another hit, the
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: pressure is incredible, and you know, emotions get out of
• 57:11
  Speaker 3: control and things just get crazy, and you know, there
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: were some sad stories, but there were many great stories
• 57:20
  Speaker 3: and great records that we have today.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: But you're talking about the relationship between Stone and Calgrin
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: was an interesting really they were very complimentary but different personality.
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: Stone was the businessman, Kelgrin was the brilliant visionary and artist.
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: Calgrin was all about about creating new sounds, creating new visuals,
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: creating new space, using spaces in an innovative way. Stone
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: was about paying for the paying the bills, making sure
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: the artists were serviced, make sure that the business ran right.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: Greed and deduct tell that tell us everything about the relationship.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: And they and they were complimentary. You know. Somebody once
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: said to me, you know what, they were so different,
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: you know they how did they get along? It was
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: because they were different and because they compliment each other
• 58:04
  Speaker 2: so well that it worked. And yes, they fought. They
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: they had differences of opinions. There were times when one
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: was shut trying to shove one out, one was trying
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: to shove the other one out. But every time they
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: were they were uh, they were about to end the relationship.
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: And that happened several times during the course of their
• 58:23
  Speaker 2: their business life together. Uh magic started happening. The money
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: started flowing, and they said, you know what, let's let's
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: not screw with this. We're making plenty of money. You know.
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: There was there was a this story where where Calvin
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: really wants, you know, really offended Stone and you know, said,
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: you know, if it wasn't for me, you'd be selling
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: still selling Nail Pauls for Revlin, right, and don't tell
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: that to tell that story. And it took place years later,
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: but he really offended him, and Stone had a choice
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: either blow up and screaming him or or just turn
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: around and and and walk out the door. He turned
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: around and walked to the door and he and I
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: asked him, you know, how'd you do? He said, you
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: know what I learned long enough to shut up and
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: take the money, you know, and U And that was
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: Stone and Calgrin. And you know, we're talking a ton
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: in this interview about Stone and Kelgarn. They're really in
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: the in this story of record Plant that we tell,
• 59:16
  Speaker 2: which is really the origin story of record Plant. Record
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: Plant went on, it's still going on. There's a studio,
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: the studio in Sacelito, we'll talk about it is still functioning.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: L a studio at a new location closed last year.
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: And there is one room on forty fourth Street still
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: operating on the tenth floor of three twenty one West
• 59:34
  Speaker 2: forty fourth Streets owned by Sony Music. So still to
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: some extent exists. But you know, the Stone Kelgren relationship
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: brought a third character in because remember, as we said,
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: Stone and Kelgron got on a plane and sold the
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: studio and got the hell out oft of Dodge, moved that, moved,
• 59:53
  Speaker 2: moved to the West coast and sold sold out to Warner.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: They needed somebody to be Calgren in New York, right,
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: They need need somebody to give to warn or to
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 2: run the place. And they and Hitley knew a guy
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 2: from from A and R, A brilliant engineer, a great
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: maintenance guy, a real character in his own right named
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: roy Sakala. Right now, Royce Socali was the third leg
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: on the stool of record plant because he ultimately not
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: only was hired by Stone and Kelgman to run New
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: York when they left, but ultimately he ended up owning
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: it and running it. He was He's famous not only
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: for mentoring great engineers like Jack Douglas and Jimmy Iveen,
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: but he was most famous he was John Lennon's engineer
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: for almost his entire post Beatles catalog, so you know,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: and he was, you know, he's a whole another part
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: of the story. And while Kelgrin and and Stone were
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: doing their doing damage to the LA market and eating
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: up that market. So Calla was running running New York himself.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: And so Cala was an interesting story because not only
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: was he engineer, but he was married to a woman
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: named Laurie Burton. Now I don't know if people know,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: but great songwriter, you know, uh you know. The famous
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: song was that I Ain't Gonna eat at my heart anymore? Right,
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: that was her. She wrote some great songs. She was
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: She was the brains behind getting getting Roy started in
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: the business. She got him his first job at A
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: and R with Phil Ramone, and it was Ramone and
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: he and and Sicala got into a fight. He got fired.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: And when he got fired from A and R uh
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: Stone and Calgrin hired him up and said, all right,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: you know what, we got our calgarn from New York, Cicala,
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: You're you're running New York while we're while we're running
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: l A and that It became the relationship between Stone
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: and Calgrin was always rocky, but they knew how to
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: work together. So Caala Sokala became New York became so
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: Callo studio. It was for many years was his studio.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, you talk good about about Soicla in the book
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: who ends up in Brazil?
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: How does that happen? Well, the story of Royce Sokala
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: is his own book. And there are many people in
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: New York who say, you know what you should have
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: just you know, when we wrote this book, it was
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: like cold, we write the story about all record plans
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: or do we just focus on one? And we took
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: the task of trying to put it all into one story,
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: which hopefully worked out. But Sakala's story was an interesting
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: one because not only was he a brilliant engineer, but
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: he was not exactly the greatest businessman, all right, and
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: he didn't have his stone, right, you know, Kelgrin had
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 2: his stone, that relationship that frickin' frack business and commerce
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: relations The sex of the Record Plan is an ultimate
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: example of commerce, art coming art and commerce coming together
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: for success. It didn't have that that partner. He tried
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: to find that partner many times, right, but he didn't
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: have that partner. And you know, unfortunately, you know, the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: studio started to get run down over the years. You know,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: there was a big period when when John when Lennon retired,
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: you know, yes, there was Aerosmith came in and yeah,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: Kiss came in, and Yes Springsteen came in, and then
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: Patty Smith came in. There was always an artist, but
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: the place was always having trouble making money and for
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 2: whatever reason and something, it was because that was not
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Roy's skill set. And when the studio years later, when
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: the studio started declining, the New York studio started declining,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: specifically because the New York was a different operation. And
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: I'll talk about that a minute. Remember they became two
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: separate businesses. People thought it was New York record Plant
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: East the Record Plant West. John Lennon used to even
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 2: call record Plan La Record Plan West. They were two
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: separate corporations. They were run separately. So Kala owned New York,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: you know. And when it started getting run down, Laurie
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: Burton told us that, you know what, the worst business got.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: The more Roy started checking out and he started getting
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: he started getting interested in Brazilian music, started working with
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: Brazilian artists, and started traveling to Brazil and started and
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: found found new love down there. Had had a child
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: down there and ultimately built a studio down there. And
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: when he as he started checking out if record Plant
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: New York and spending more Brazil the studio to climb
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: into the eighties, you know, the studio declined even further.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go specifically to Kelgrin. You talked about speaking
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: with his widow. What it says in the book is
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: cal Grin is from the Midwest. He steps off from
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: the altar with a pregnant kid, a pregnant wife. Then
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: as a kid you talk about he comes to New York,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: he meets this woman. They ultimately moved to la She's
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: living one place, but he's got a girlfriends and we
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: you know, what kind of character does this other than
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: rock stars? And how did the widow feel about all this?
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: Marta Kelgrin has been very kind to us in the book,
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: and she and and some of the stories I'm sure
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 2: were difficult, but she, you know, you know, she and
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: her daughter were supportive of the project and had a
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: lot of changes and had a lot of stories to
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: share with us as well. But I didn't dig into
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: the details of how she felt. But you know, but
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: obviously there were you know, as things evolved, her relationship
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: with with Gary became even more difficult. She h, you know,
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: there was she lived in one house with the kids,
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 2: he moved out. You know, Gary was living in a rock
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 2: star lifestyle. He was, remember he was the rock stars
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: rock star at that time. You know, the rock stars
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: wanted wanted Kelgren. You know, they were chasing Kelgrin in
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: those days. So I've never really pushed on that point
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 2: and how she felt. I know that some things we
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: wrote were difficult for her. We saw her recently at
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: a book signing in la and she was very kind
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: and generous to us. But I'm sure some of the
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: you know, it was a tough period in her life.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: You know, it was certainly and certainly to Gary the
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: end that was this particularly tough time for her. It
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: was tough time for a lot of people.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: We should mention that there was a very unfortunate occurrence
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 3: that kind of altered his Kelgrin's life and probably the
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: relationship with Marta. He fell through a glass shower door
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 3: before they had tempered class or safety class. He almost
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: had his arm amputated. They had to wire him together.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: This was in the in the mid seventies. Technology was
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: the best they had, but it was it was a
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 3: terribly painful thing. He had to go for years with
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 3: this device that elevated his arm like up like this
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 3: and that was probably the beginning of some painkillers that
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: were absolutely necessary. I mean, he was almost died and
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: that may have had that probably. Marta told us that
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 3: he was never the same after that occurrence, So that was,
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: you know, part of the transition or the change in
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: his life. Sad but true, and eventually probably had a
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: fat was a factor in his desk drowning in his
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: luxurious swimming pool.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: A couple of questions her stories like this, I hear
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: my father's voice in my head. Yeah, he fell through
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: the shower door. Was he fucked up or was he like,
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: you know, a regular guy and he fell through the
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 1: tower door.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: Could have been a combination of both. It doesn't sound
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: like it was an unusual time. You know, Calgrin could
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 3: probably handle more drugs than anybody you could imagine.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: Gloria said that once they were driving in a limo
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 3: and he gave her a puff on a pipe and
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 3: she got terribly sick and said she'd never get any
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 3: smoke anything from Kelgrin. Again, some people could handle it,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: some people couldn't, you know. I don't think we need
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 3: to dwell on it. But there were many sad factors
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: in his decline and.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 2: I can't answer that, quo, I don't we can answer
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: the question. We don't know that right, We don't know
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: the answer to that question. But we do know that
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 2: that the accident did impact not only his life, his
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: use of uh of let's say pharmaceuticals uh and his
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: experimentation with him, but it also affected his work, you know,
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: his ability to work in the console. And that was
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 2: you know, we have I don't know if we've talked
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: about the Donna hues and we can talk about Tom
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: and Rachel Donnie who play a role in this story
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: as well. Uh. They you know, Rachel Donnay, who could
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 2: describe the story of watching Gary after his accident with
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 2: his weird contraptions on working at console. He never carried
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: never despite this accident and despite his you know this
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: what it transpired, Uh, he never lost his ability to
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: function in the studio. He never locked his ears, has
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: never lost his ability to create new environments, create new sounds,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: and he certainly never lost his ability to to mix.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: And it was it's an amazing thing that that his
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: you know, you could say he had great capacity, but
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: he put you know, listen, you can't do what he
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: does he did without being a very special creative individual,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: and he certainly was okay.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: All these records had credits. We read them, studied them,
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: you look at you know, at first it was just
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: producer and engineer. Then at other times, and to this day,
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: there's a third party who mixes the record gets a credit.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: I don't remember seeing his name in most of these credits.
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: Is it that I missed them, or he was working uncredited,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: or he wasn't working as much as we think he was.
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: He was working a lot, but he was working. Remember,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 2: they had an interesting business model. Stone tell us the
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: story that he came up with his idea when he
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 2: was in the dentist's office. How the dentist was hopping
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: from room to room, right, and he had you know,
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 2: they had the dental hygienus and the systems working in
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 2: one room, and he had all these assistants. Stone said,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: you know what, everybody wants to work with Kelgrin, right,
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: but I can't. You know, I can't have a multi
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: room facility. I can't I can't clone Calgrin, right. So
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: he had this idea that you know what, you'd go
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 2: into a studio, the Kelgrin would start the session with
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: an assistant and then he would just walk out and
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 2: he'd leave that assistant to work with the artists. For
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: the assistant, you know, might have been a very accomplished engineer.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 2: It might have been just a real runner or an
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: assistant engineer or a tapeonk but Kelgrin knew that, you
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: know what, He could bounce around from studio studio and
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 2: sometimes different disappear entirely. You know, Royce of Kala was
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 2: trained on that model as well. But kelgrind You know,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: Kelgrin has credits, you know, certainly, you know the Hendrix
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: credits that we should talk about in a moment if
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: you'd like. But you know, there are lots of Kelvin credits.
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: But but Record Plant couldn't have built the music factory
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: that it became just on the back of Gary Calgrin.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: Calgrin trained these guys. He taught them a work ethic,
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: but he also taught he also threw him into the
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: deep end with some of the biggest artists of their time,
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: and he trained roy Zakala on the same the same gig.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: You know. That's that's the way they operate, you know,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 2: and it's something and years later you know that's what
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: you know. Years later, Jimmy Iveen learned that gig bouncing
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 2: between sessions with Patty Smith and Bruce Springsteen at the
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: same time. That's how you did it. He had really
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: good assistance, could back you up.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: And you don't see Chris Chris Stone mentioned on any
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: album credits either, but we both well we know that
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: many of the greatest albums of all time would not
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: have been finished without Chris Stone behind the scenes making
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: sure that the studio operates correctly. Also, Stone knew how
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: to protect the artists from any problems with the law.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: He had in San Francisco. He had the top Phil Ryan,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: who I interviewed the two of them together. These two
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 3: guys were real characters, but Phil Ryan was the rock
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: and roll lawyer. There were many artists that careers would
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: have gone directly into the toilet if Phil didn't come
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 3: in and kind of save the day and get them
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: out of town. While you know, people were trying to
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: attack some of the artists and and and stars of
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 3: the day in the sixties, So there was a big
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 3: organization that was happening behind the scenes while the artists
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: were working. Where Kelgrin was working, his magic, and Stone
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 3: was making sure that everybody's safe.
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: And and Kelpan's role also uh turned to sales, or
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 2: remember he and sales in the record business, and the
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: rock and roll business was different than going out and
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: knocking on doors. You go to the go to the Rainbow,
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: pulled greed up and you know, into the parking lot
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: and spend an evening up in the Rainbow hanging out
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: and drinking and partying until two a m. And then
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: then when the Rainbow closed, he'd bring people back for
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: an after party all night long at at at at
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: Record Plan on Third Street. So it was his role
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: was to bring not only spread the word about the
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 2: magic that was going down down at the Record Plan,
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 2: but to bring in the business. You know, when Jimmy
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: left for Electric Electric Ladies Studios, Stone and Kelgrin you
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: know had a void. They always needed a major artist
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: to book a lot of time, right and thank goodness,
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 2: Uh Stevie Wonder Uh left New York uh and moved
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 2: out to la and needed a studio to work in,
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: and and Stone went a Stone and Calgrin built studio
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: B famous and probably the most famous Record Plant room
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: because it did Stevie's entire classic period there. But they
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: you know, Stone had had and Calgrin had a thing going.
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 2: They said, you know, the joke was, hey, Calgrin, go
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: out on the street and find me another Hendrix. What
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: he meant was find me an artist who had money,
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: who could block book a studio for a year, who
• 1:15:33
  Speaker 2: had no limits and how much money they want to spend,
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: and just wanted to roll lots of tape because that
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: tape was made them a lot of money. So you know,
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: Kelgrin was out always finding another Hendrix. And not only
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 2: did they find Stevie Wonder, but you know another art
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: you know, Sly Stone became that other another Hendrix uh
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 2: for the studio when they built Scelito up north in
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: you know, near San Francisco. So Calgrin, you know, Kelgrin's
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: name is on quite a number of albums. But you know,
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: his legacy is maybe not so much his own credits
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: as the people he schooled and the records that his
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: that were made, but based on his recording philosophy and
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: these environments, creative environments that he created, that was his
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 2: real that was his real trademark.
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell us about the establishment of the record plant
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: in Saucelito where sly Stone is the whale Fleewood Mac
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: cuts rumors and they build this FORCCTA studio for sly.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 3: Right, Hey, whatever they whatever the artist wants, Okay, you're
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: gonna get it. You want to pit, we'll do We'll
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 3: do it. You want us to uh uh jackhammer at
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 3: the bottom of the basement so that we can make it,
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 3: make it. Okay, it's too bad the bay is flooding
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 3: the bottom of the studio. That's okay, we can fix that.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 3: So that was the that was the scene in sALS Alito.
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 3: And and Calgrin wanted boats too. That's where he had
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: those cigarette boats, that those speedboats, so you know they
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: could They had helicopters delivering people to the studio and
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 3: once you got there, you want to go out on
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: the boat. Yeah, you know, George Martin worked with America there.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: Georgia loved boats too. So whatever the artist wanted during
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 3: Billable time, they got.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 2: The studio you're talking about, David Employs was called the pit,
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: all right. And let me just back up a little
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: bit for a second, because remember Jimmy left New York
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: to build electrically his own studio, right, but before he
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: before they built uh, he built a studio. Calgrin knew
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: that Jimmy on his own room. So and they were
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 2: they wanted to hold onto his business. They want in
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: New York, so they built a studio up on the
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: tenth floor. There was just an ordinary room in an
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: ordinary office building. Jimmy was like an ordinary businessman. We'd
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: get into the elevator in New York, go up to
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: the tenth floor and work. Right. So they got this idea,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: we could start building studios for the artist all right
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: and let him book it, let him pay for it,
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: let him own it, but we would operate it for
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: we would. They wouldn't have to own their own studio.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: It's a pain in the ass own a studio. Gott
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 2: to hire people, gotta pay pay more, you gotta. You know,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: it's running a business. Watch an artists run a business
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 2: when we can build it for them. Like I said,
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: they built Studio B in La on Third Street for
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 2: Stevie Wonder. It was a success. And and then they
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: had their next whale as you call them, and they
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 2: had they were building this building up north in Sauce Alito.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: Now Sauce Alito was their first attempt at a resort studio.
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 2: If La got crazy and La got insane, you can
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: get out of town and go up to this laid
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: back area in Sacelito, right by the by the by
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: the house boats by the bay. And Sly they had
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: they had Sly as a customer. And you know, they
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: they realized remember Sly had had a house for a
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: time in the in bel Air, you know, with a
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: studio in his house, right, you know, so he was
• 1:19:24
  Speaker 2: not against or you know, new to the idea of
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 2: having his own studio. But Sly, being Sly, had a
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: unique concept. All right, what if we could build a
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: studio that was a hole in the ground instead of
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 2: being a room on the same level. We'll dig a
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: giant ditch in the in the place and at the
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 2: bottom of the of the of this giant hole, we'll
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: put this put the recording console, We'll put the the
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 2: tape machines and around, moving around above the artists, the
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: the the musicians would sit on ledges and play the
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: guitars and hang out in and perform. So like David,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: you know, said before, they jackhammered the floor in the
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: in the studio and Uh and Saucelito the water from
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: the base started pouring in. They pumped it out and
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: they built the pit. Now the pit was based on
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: on Sly's idea for the for some for a studio
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 2: where the artists could be on the on the below
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: the performers. Now we asked Tom Fly who was Who
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 2: was sly Stones engineer for Fresh and one of the
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: more brilliant engineers at Record Plant. And Tom Fly is
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: another one of those unsung heroes of the Record Plant
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: that we could talk about. But I said to Fly,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: what was Sly's idea behind it? He said, let me
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 2: tell you how I where he came that came from?
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: He said, one day, one day Sly told him that
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: he wanted, uh, he wanted rhinestones on the brim of
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: a hat. Right. He had this concept that you know,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: for beautiful rhinestones the deck or hat. But unlike everybody
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: else who were to put the rhinestones on the top
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: of the hat, Sly had a unique idea. He wanted
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: the rhinestones underneath the brim. He wanted to so that
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: the hat was playing but underneath looking so he could
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 2: look up. And I said to five, what was his concept?
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: He said, if I'm gonna put rhinestones on a hat.
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: I'm the one who wants to see the rhinestone, right,
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 2: not everybody else. So I had the concept of looking
• 1:21:28
  Speaker 2: up right, and that was Fly's well, that's what Fly
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: said to us about. That was the genesis idea of
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: that studio. Now, by the way, that studio sucked, right.
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 2: That room was funny funk. It was a it was
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: a it was a pit. It was a pit, literally
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: a right, and it's you know, it was a money pit.
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: Stone called it, you know, a white elephant. It was.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: It just said it was acoustically not a sound idea. Yeah,
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: you know. Bill Wyman worked there, Van Morrison worked there,
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Al Cooper worked there. You know, Paris worked there. People
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: were then. They couldn't get a hit out of the pit, right,
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: sly couldn't even get a hit out of the pit.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 2: There was only one There's only one artist who could
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: get a hit out of the pit, and that was
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: believe it or not, Stevie Nicks. Right, So Stevie Nicks
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 2: and the Fleetwood mac are working as a sauce leader during
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: the famous rumor session. Then there's a whole book written
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: on rumors up up at Sauce Alito by Ken kela
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 2: uh And and there's a Broadway play that knocked off
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: that story called Stereophonic, Right, but you know so but
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: so they're looking for you know, Stevie has an idea
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: for a song. She's breaking up with Lindsey Bucket Min's
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 2: it's everybody's heard about the legends of the drugs and
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 2: the breakups and the craziness of rumor sessions of record
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: plant Sauce Alito, and she's, you know, she's getting away
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 2: from the craziness of the band. So she wanders around
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: the studio and she comes across the pit, right, and
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 2: she Now the pit was not only the studio, but
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: Calgrin built a sly of bed off the side of
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: the pit. Now that bedroom had curtains hanging down with
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: the big lips on it that looked like the rolling stone,
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 2: you know, tongue and lips. You go in, and there
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 2: was a big bed with a big you know, velvet bedspread,
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 2: and there was a patch base so he could hang
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: out and play and patch into the studio from there.
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: And there was even an escape hatch so he could
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 2: escape if they got it in problems which came in
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: handy later on, So Stevie Nicks walks into a Sly's bedroom,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: gets on the bed, you know, crosses her legs, has
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: a little keyboard, has a little tape machine, and within
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 2: ten minutes, right, the biggest hit that came out of
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: the pit. She wrote Dreams on the on that bed,
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: on slies bedspread in the pit. One of the greatest
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: songs of all time and certainly Fleetwood Max's biggest hit.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, ultimately was sold. It was called the Plant. It's
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: still operating. Does the pit still exist now?
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: The pit's long ago was filled and it's not in
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 2: the new studio, it's gone.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to la. You tell a couple
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: of Phil Spector stories, can you, you know, give my
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: audience a taste.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: Well, the word was if Phil walks in with a
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 3: big Manila envelope and it's heavy, he's carrying a gun.
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 3: And he was known for this. Sometimes he would come
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: in with like, you know, a like a Western star,
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 3: with matching silver pistols, with ivory things. You know, that
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: weren't the only guns that most of the time they
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 3: checked their guns at the desk after you got after
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 3: buzz me in Gably and please leave your guns at
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 3: the desk before you go into session. We interviewed many,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 3: many people about the famous gun shot by Phil Spector
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 3: at Record Plant, at least ten stories, and they none
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 3: of them coincide with each other. It's like the Raschamon
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: movie from Kurosawa. Everybody had a different story. The culmination
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 3: is that when they finally tore the studio down in
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 3: eighty five, Marty interviewed one of the engineers who was
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 3: responsible for dismantling the studio, Marty, why don't you tell
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 3: them where the bullets ended up? Because there were bullets.
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 2: There were people who said that, you know. Basically the
• 1:25:34
  Speaker 2: story is Phil Spector almost killed John Lennon seven years
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: before he'd ultimately was shot to death, all right, and
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 2: that and he almost killed them the night one night
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: during the lost weekend when he with Phil and he
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: would work on a rock and roll album in La
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 2: at Record Plane. As David said, it was like a
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: Raschamon story, a million different stories. Even some people said
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: it never happened. May Pang said that she saw you know,
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: John saying he was holding his ears. Other people said
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: that Phil Spector was in the toilet. Others said they
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: were in the chacuzzie together. But years later, uh and
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: we told all the stories. We figured, you know what,
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: We're not gonna tell one story. We let everybody's story.
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 2: So and we told all these different stories. It's no
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 2: but one thing was clear. A gunshot went out. John
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: and Phil were together in one of the rooms, and
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: uh and and but nobody could find the bullets. The
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: bullet was gone. There was no bullets. But years later,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: the students Stone that they were tearing down the studio
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 2: they were moving, and Stone had this beautiful wood paneling
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: in his office and they and the carpenters were tearing
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: down the tearing the wood because they were they wanted
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 2: to save that wood and reuse it. And ultimately one
• 1:26:47
  Speaker 2: of the carpenters took it home and put it in
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: his garage. And years later, when he was building another studio,
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: he said, I've got some great wood that that we
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: can use for the studio. So he's took he took
• 1:26:58
  Speaker 2: out a plane and started planing the wood, and you know,
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: and doing the work on the wood, and all of
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: a sudden, he hits something, and he hits and he
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: hits another thing, and he digs into the wood, and
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: there are these slugs, bullet slugs that were that were
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 2: preserved all those years later in this wood from stones
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: from Stone's office. So, you know, the important thing about
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: John Lennon and I think it's you know and Phil
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: Spector is the dydemic of Phil Spector and John are
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 2: very much part of the you know, the the legacy
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 2: of record Plan. John and Phil worked together on Imagine
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 2: overdubs July fourth weekend in nineteen seventy one at Record
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 2: Plant with Roy Sakala, his engineer, Shelleyakis, and Jack Douglas. Yeah,
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 2: he Phil was there worked with George Harrison on on
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: the Record Plant's first remote concert for Begladesh uh And
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: and Phil went out to La with John when he moved.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Began the last weekend and they started working at A
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: and M. Now it's interesting if you look on Facebook,
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 2: it's funny this week there's there's this famous console at
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: A and M that was just just being preserved. Is
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 2: go on the A and M alumni site on Facebook
• 1:28:18
  Speaker 2: and you'll see this console was just was being put
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: in storage, this famous Hako console. And John and John
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 2: and Roy and Phil Spector who are working on the
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: rock and roll Alem at A and M and suddenly,
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: you know, uh, they get thrown out. There was years
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: later there was a letter from John uh that said
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 2: what happened? Explain what happened? That basically, Keith Moon peed
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 2: on the console and then pissed off the management at AM.
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: They threw him out. Right, who's gonna take you know,
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 2: an artist who peed on one of these most expensive
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 2: consoles and call and and by the way, gunshots also went.
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 2: We're the guns were flying at A and AM also
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: those days. So who was going to take these maniacs? Right?
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 2: Only the record plant would take them. So they moved
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 2: everybody over the record plant and uh and while John
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 2: was there, Phil and he worked on the worked on
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: on the rock and Roll album until Phil flip flipped
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: out and stole the tapes and disappeared, and John stayed
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: there working with Roy and Jimmy. I been with Harry
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: Nielsen on Pussycats. But uh, the Phil Spector story of
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: the gunshots is legendary, and it definitely happened because we've
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: you know, we know the guy who found the bullets.
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, another story that's well detailed is Stevie Wonder you
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: go into Tonto the original megasynthesizer, Robert Marklof and Malcolm Cecil.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: I've heard Marklos's version. You would do a better take
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 1: in the book of how Stevie actually meets them. I
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: want to hear what your understanding of why the ultimate
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 1: rupture between those two entities after a number of albums.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 2: You want to take debby, you want me to go.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: Look, I've I'm friends with Bob. Marty interviewed Malcolm before
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: he passed away. It's an it's an uncomfortable conversation. Yeah,
• 1:30:28
  Speaker 3: you take it and I'll back listen. It's rock and roll.
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: So it all comes down to money, right, Well that's told.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 3: But but Mark and Bob's a friend, and we love Bob.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 3: We just saw him in a book signing.
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 2: And you know, Bob's you know, one of the great
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: engineers and produce of all time, and and and he's
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 2: he's a friend. But he and he and Malcolm were
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 2: an interesting, uh partnership, you know, the agreed and deduct
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 2: Well they were their own, they were their own relationship, right,
• 1:30:56
  Speaker 2: So let me let me take you take you through it. Right,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: they're in New York, Jim, you know, they're working at
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: Electric Lady studios, filling Electric Lady after Jimmy Jimmy died
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: and filling the time and uh and that's when uh,
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: Malcolm shows, uh shows Stevie the magic of the synthesizer.
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: Now the synthesizer is not just an ordinary synthesizer. He's
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 2: come up with this concept that he concludes together all
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 2: these odd pieces and make it work. So it's so
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: it's almost created an electronics orchestra. But it took took
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: basically three people to operate it. It took the musician
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: sitting in a keyboard, you know. And it took two
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 2: guys Malcolm and Margolf and Bob too uh to with
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: a patch bay plugging everything in. Uh. They at while
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: they were an Electric Lady, they were they they worked
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: on on this and John Stork, who designed Electric Lady
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 2: for Jimmy, built this magnificent this magnificent cabinetry for the synthesize.
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: It only had one major problem. The major problem was
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: no studio could house the damn thing. It was too big.
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: They when Stevie wanted to move out to lay they
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: moved in with Crystal for a time. But you know,
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 2: nobody wanted to book a studio with you know, with
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 2: this monstrous synthesizer, the Stevie that made all those early
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: sounds of the classic period, but you couldn't house it.
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: So they realized they had a book a studio around
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 2: the clock. Magic is Chris Stone's ears. Remember, you know,
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: I love a block book and I want to I
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: want my new I want another Jimmy. Well, you know,
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 2: Malcolm and Bob and Stevie became the next artist. So
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: they they moved over to record Plant, and and and
• 1:32:50
  Speaker 2: Stone built, you know, Stone let them build in their
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 2: own studio, studio be a very mundane, ordinary record recording
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: studio that just so happened to do inter visions, talking books,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 2: fulfilling this much of songs in the key of life, right,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: some of the most magical records of all time during
• 1:33:12
  Speaker 2: that period those four years they were working there. You know,
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: there were there were almost three hundred songs in the
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: in the archive there all right, So the magical time
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: for them, and it was a force. It was really
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 2: four partners. It was Stevie the artist, It was Malcolm
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: who built Tonto, and Bob Whew who taught him how
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 2: to manipulate it and make these great sounds, right, and
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 2: studio b was the room. It had the magic.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: It was it was it was a quad room. We
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 3: should mention that quad was the latest thing. And this
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 3: is the first time that Steve could be in the
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 3: middle of all the music and with the help of
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: Margolev and Cecil, the three of them operating it. He
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: could think of things and those guys as a team
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 3: could create the sound that was in his mind.
• 1:34:07
  Speaker 2: But they so they were making hits. But remember Bob
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: and Malcolm went out the greatest business that they do
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 2: have a Stone. You know, they didn't exactly have the
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 2: best deal. They had no points. You know, they had
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: a good gig. They were making money. But then you
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 2: know what uh they were, you know, things were coming apart.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 2: Now Malcolm and I've unfortunately before he passed away, I
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: spent a lot of time on the interviewing Malcolm. Malcolm
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: was a genius. He was a bass player from England.
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 2: Worked with Jeff Beck work with the Rolling Stones, did
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 2: you know, did some amazing work, you know, both both
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 2: working an orchestra as well as rock and roll, and
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: built and was was an inventor and built Tonto. But
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 2: it could be a little difficult and uh he started pushing,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: you know, pushing Stevie a little bit hard. Remember Stevie,
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 2: Stevie was very rich at the time, had made some
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 2: really good deals with the with the motown and UH
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 2: and he you know, at one point, you know, he
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 2: started pushing Stevie to make, you know, to sing in
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 2: a way that he wasn't comfortable, to make him sound angry.
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 2: He was just pushing him, trying to make him angry.
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 2: So he said, I'm not getting the sounds out of
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 2: He started he started pulling the plug on him every
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 2: single time, and he and more he pulled the pulled
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 2: the plug on and the more Stevie get pissed off,
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: and the more Malcolm got got the sound and got
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: the vocal out of Stevie that he wanted, but it
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 2: left it left damage between the relationship and UH, and
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 2: you know, they started fighting, and it was really they
• 1:35:41
  Speaker 2: started They said, you know what, our deal sucks. We
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: don't have enough deal here. We need we need we
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: need to make sure we're cut in on these three
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 2: hundred songs. We got to make sure we're making some
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 2: real money. So they hired a lawyer and they got
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 2: they went they went to and they went to the
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: match with Stevie. Uh, they spent about fifty grand I
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: think in those days, and with lawyers, which is a
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: big money in those days. And and you know what,
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: Malcolm goes to Bob and says, this only way we're
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: going to get the deal is if we take the tapes. Remember,
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: the tapes in those d's were everything, right, They weren't
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: digital files, they weren't all over the internet. If you
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 2: had the tapes, you had the masters, you had everything.
• 1:36:20
  Speaker 2: You know. Phil Spector stole the rope rock and roll
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 2: tapes from John Lennon and held them out, held them
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: out so he could get Capital Records to pay him off.
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 2: Right for him, he wanted to protect those tapes. Frank
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: Zappa used to travel with his tapes. Sly Stone had
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 2: a Toyota jeep where he kept his entire archive with
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 2: armed guards. Right, so you held onto the tapes. Well,
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 2: those days, Malcolm and Bob had the keys to the archive.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 2: So Malcolm was Malcolm said, all right, the only way
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 2: we're going to get our deals is is holding onto
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: those tapes. Right. Well, before they were able to do that,
• 1:36:59
  Speaker 2: guess what, Stevie's guys cleared out the tapes and Malcolm
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: went crazy. He blamed Stone, and Stone denied it, but
• 1:37:08
  Speaker 2: who knows what really happened, But he denied that. He
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: gave it, gave Motown or Stevie's management the keys to
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: the tape, but those tapes were gone. He lost the
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 2: lost the leverage, right. So Malcolm said, all right, we're
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 2: done with Stevie Wonder And Bob said, are you sure
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: we want to be done with Stevie Wonder. We're on
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 2: a ride here, man. He said, we're done with him.
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: We're done with him now. He Malcolm and Bob had
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: a had a deal. You know, one of them was out.
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 2: They were both out, and they those two they had
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 2: a falling out because because Bob didn't want to leave,
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 2: and uh, and it ended. You know, it's there's no
• 1:37:44
  Speaker 2: hard feelings anymore between Bob. Bob's worked everything out and
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: I think everything was been taken care with Stevie long term.
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: But at that time it was a very contentious relationship
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 2: and it all came crumbling down. And the last album
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: they did together was fulfilling this. They had a bunch
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 2: of songs on Songs in the Kia Life, but Songs
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: in the Kia Life was not was not a cecil
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: Mark Lift Tonto Stevie Wonder production.
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 3: And that was the emergence of a new engineer, Gary
• 1:38:12
  Speaker 3: Olazabal whose name is now Gary A. Dante. I was
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: just in touch with him for a couple of days ago,
• 1:38:20
  Speaker 3: and they're still working together. So the saga goes on,
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: and uh, I think the vibe now between Steve and
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 3: Bob is just fine. Uh some thing's just received into
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 3: the past. Because without a doubt that that three man triumvirate,
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 3: that record plant in the room that was designed to
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 3: be a quad room, well it without a doubt it
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 3: made history. It's still with us now.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 2: You know, even even though Stevie Ultimate left record Plant,
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: you know after you know, although you know, songs in
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 2: the Kui Life was recorded, Uh much of it was
• 1:39:01
  Speaker 2: recorded up in La and in Soslito. It was recorded
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 2: crystal in other places as well. Obviously the important thing
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: to know is he never left the record plant because
• 1:39:13
  Speaker 2: he ended up buying or no leasing, he leasing the
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 2: record plant truck and parking at it and parking it
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: outside of his house. It was his house, you know,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: at Wonderland, and and uh I think it was stud
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 2: his main studio for many years later.
• 1:39:29
  Speaker 1: Now you talk about the truck in the book, how
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: Wally Hyder, who had his own studios with his own name,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: ultimately teaches him how to do it and they split
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: up the country. But then the record plant guys kind
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: of finagel whatever. So tell us about that.
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: The first record Plant remote was concert for Bangled Dish. Right,
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: how do you how do you how do you top that? Right? Uh?
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 2: And you know Kelgrin was working with George Harrison and
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 2: uh In l A and Harrison told me needed a truck.
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 2: He said, I'll get you. We'll do it. He didn't
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: have a truck. You couldn't build a truck, right, couldn't
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 2: build a truck. Hyder had a truck. He had an
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: old truck, and that became known as the White Truck
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: years for many many years. I think it rolled for
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: about forty five years, you know, even after it went
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 2: off independently. Right, But the deal was Calgown and Stone
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: were good businessmen, so they, you know, like the mafia,
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: you cut up the country, right, Like like concert promoters
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: you can have you can have Philadelphia, I'll take New York,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: you can get Chicago. Well, Well, the deal was, you
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 2: know what I'll leaseh you this truck or sell you
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: this truck, but you can't do anything west of the
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: west of the Mississippi. And of course they said, you know,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 2: we'll do we'll do it right. So there, you know,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 2: the you know, the Record Plan truck stayed in New York.
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 2: White truck became the New York truck you know, did
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 2: and rolled tape and rubber for many, many years. As
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: I said, But sooner or later there was the demand
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 2: for live albums became so popular, especially after Frampton and
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 2: all the other live albums started happening, that demand just
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 2: took off. And you know what, it was a handshake deal.
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: There was no contract. There was no deal on this.
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 2: It's like, all right, you know what. Suddenly you know,
• 1:41:21
  Speaker 2: there were Record Plan trucks in Sos Alito. There's a
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: Record Plan trucks in LA and the white truck remained
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: in Maine Park outside on forty four seet when it
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: wasn't rolling all over the East coast.
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, just as a side note, Wally Hyder, what was
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: his genius and why was he in lore eclipsed from
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: by the Record Plan.
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 3: I remember there there was no refrigerator at Wally's studio. Actually, Wally,
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 3: I think I met him. He used to have a
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 3: studio here in La long time ago. He was one
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 3: of the legendary genius as of recording, well known in
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 3: San Francisco. David Schwartz, founder of Mixed magazine, got his
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 3: third working for Wally. Uh. He was a legend. I
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 3: don't know too much beyond that really well, you know.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 2: Remember he was like like many of these early day
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 2: recording studios. He was studio engineers and owners. He was
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 2: a hobbyist, right. He He had a he had a uh,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 2: I guess a station wagon with a tape recorder, and
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 2: he used to go around the country tape recording jazz
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 2: bands and built a very large, uh and very important
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: collection of tapes of of jazz grades around the country,
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 2: and built the studio in Sarcelito that you know, obviously
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: was pivotal to the success of uh, you know, of
• 1:42:51
  Speaker 2: of the San Francisco bands, and then ultimately built built
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 2: in l A uh you know where obviously where a
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: lot of artists could could work. It was not as flashy,
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: it was not full of the creature comforts that record
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: plant was noted for. It had its following. And I
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 2: wouldn't say record Plant the clips that maybe you know
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 2: from it from a standpoint of money and success, I
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: can't measure that for you. But certainly it had its following,
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: you know, Cosby Stills in Nash loved, you know, loved.
• 1:43:19
  Speaker 2: They didn't like record Plant, they loved, you know, they
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 2: felt it was too flashy some people remember record Plant
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: was too flashy for some people. It was too crazy
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 2: party scene for people. You know, it was too public
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 2: for some people. Uh, you know, a place like Hyder
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: had its following it. Hyder was a great engineer and
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: he taught some amazing people, but like David said, he
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: wasn't full of serving the artists with the creature comforts
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 2: that the record Plant was known about. And the story
• 1:43:44
  Speaker 2: that the story that David's talking about the refrigerator is,
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: you know, Calais and the room, Ken Calay and the
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 2: rumors crew for Fleetwear Mac are working, you know and
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: getting everything they want up in up in sas Alito,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: and they decide, you know what we need to change
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 2: the place. We got to go down to l A.
• 1:44:03
  Speaker 2: You know, it's good to finish the album. So they
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 2: go down to LA and Kelly's a former student assistant
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 2: and engineer it for for a Hider. So he said, chooses,
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 2: you know, he chooses working and finishing up the record
• 1:44:17
  Speaker 2: rumors at at at Wally Hider Studio in la And
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 2: at one point, you know what, the band says, you
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: know what, we'd like a refrigerator in the studio. So
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 2: kela Ay picks up the phone, calls the front desk
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 2: and says, uh, uh you know, uh, couldn't you get
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: refrigerator over here? He said? They said, what a refrigerator?
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: And he said, yeah, get a refrigerator here said they didn't
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 2: have refrigerator him, and they said, all right, you know
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: what you want tofrigerate to get it, but you know what,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: you guys, come out here and carry it yourself.
• 1:44:48
  Speaker 3: Right or that put or go to the record plant.
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: Or go to the or go to the record plan
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 2: where they'll and guess what they said, Okay, we'll go
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 2: to the record plan because remember the record plan ends.
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: Whole business model was serving the art. You want that
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: you want to you want a refrigerator, we'll get your refrigerator.
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 2: You want, you know, whatever you want, we'll get you
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: because we want to keep your business.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: One point that you're making the book. They would get
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 1: whatever they want, but they'd charge the label, of course.
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: It was by the way, nothing was nothing was free. Man.
• 1:45:25
  Speaker 2: They were selling. They were selling service. It's like a hotel.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: You want, you know, go into the the mini bar
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: in any hotel, man, and and how much you're paying.
• 1:45:33
  Speaker 2: It's this was the hotel business, you know. They were selling.
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: They were selling rooms in time and services.
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Bill Simsick is working, uh, you know with some
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 3: of the biggest acts imaginable, and a Stone asked them, hey,
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 3: you know, hey Bill, you know, why don't you do
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 3: this or something like this. Look, I'm working for the label.
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 3: He says, do you have a what kind of a
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 3: sound system do you have at home? So? I don't
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 3: have anything, really I wish I did. The next day,
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 3: a complete ultimate Hi Fi system is delivered to cimsics
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 3: house and guess what it just ended up as a charge,
• 1:46:20
  Speaker 3: a rental charge. So take care of the artists.
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: Can you tell me a little bit about the three
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: rooms at the Record play in La where Shenanigans take place?
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 3: Sure? Well. They were called the Rack Room, the Sissy Room,
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 3: and the boat Room. The boat room was like kind
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 3: of a if you wanted to get away, you could
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 3: climb aboard the ss Boat Room and you've had a bed,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 3: you've had chairs, you've had probably your own sound system.
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 3: They even had a special secret room in there called
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 3: the Anne Frank Room. The Sissy Room was a big
• 1:47:08
  Speaker 3: plush bed with curtains and you know, it was just
• 1:47:12
  Speaker 3: very feminine and very comfortable and the ultimate in that direction.
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 3: And then the rack room, well it did have if
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 3: you wanted to get into that. It had mechanical gears
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 3: and ropes and pulleys and probably velvet covered handcuffs and
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 3: things like that. I don't think it was a serious,
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 3: you know, torture chamber, but it added that kind of
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 3: flavor of you know, the dark side of rock and roll.
• 1:47:46
  Speaker 3: But it became part of the theme idea of Record
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 3: Plant and the ultimate dream of Kelgrin and if Stone
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 3: could finance it was to build a series of rock
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 3: and roll hotels, ultimate five star hotels all over the
• 1:48:02
  Speaker 3: country that also had the best recording studios, so the
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 3: artists would always have a place where they could be
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 3: comfortable and they could record anything they wanted to.
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 2: You know, at these hotel rooms. And the back record plant.
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: Not only were kinky and and artful and private. People
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: could do whatever they want. You want to crash, and
• 1:48:27
  Speaker 2: a session musician wants a crash as a bed. You
• 1:48:30
  Speaker 2: want to you know, bring your girlfriend, your wife, whatever.
• 1:48:32
  Speaker 2: In there. You can do whatever you want. You could
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: write songs in there. They rented for fifty dollars an hour.
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: They were rentable time, and people just camped out on them.
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: The original idea was to help the artist, help the
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: musicians have a place to crash between sessions. They obviously
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 2: became more when Stone and Kelgrin wrote a business plan
• 1:48:53
  Speaker 2: the very beginning. Frankie Revsen right, that was part of
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 2: the business model. They were going to build hotels. It
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 2: was Stone said it. From the earliest days. He and
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: the Stone were talking about that not only were they
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 2: going to rent studio time, but they were going to
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 2: rent hotel rooms along with it. You know, in nineteen
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 2: seventy five that Stone and Kelgrin we were, you know,
• 1:49:19
  Speaker 2: having business problems. They were not getting along, but and
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 2: they and they they ended up in People magazine. It
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: was a it was a big photo spread. It was
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: a big photo spread of the hotel rooms and at
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 2: record plan you see you can see these photos in
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: our book, and the People magazine in the in the
• 1:49:40
  Speaker 2: in the mid seventies was huge, right, everybody saw these
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: all right, every every musician and every house household in
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 2: American probably had that People magazine. And there was Calgrin
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: in the jacuzzi, and there was Marta Kelgrin on this bed,
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 2: and there were women in another bed, and and in
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 2: that In that mid seventies article in People magazine, again,
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: Calgrin had the idea of building hotel rooms, right that
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: they wanted to be in that business. And not surprisingly
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 2: and we can if you want to dig into the
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: Hotel California part of this story. You know what a
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: band called the Eagles had been working in in this
• 1:50:19
  Speaker 2: in the record plan during that period. And who knows
• 1:50:23
  Speaker 2: where the title Hotel California came from, but there's no
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 2: question about the fact that hotels for rock and rollers
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 2: was very much part of the business scheme and the
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 2: business plan.
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: Okay, So tell me a story from one of these
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: artists that didn't make the book.
• 1:50:51
  Speaker 3: Hmmm, I don't. I think we got everybody in there
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 3: that we could reach. No, I think I think we covered.
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, let me put it in a different way it
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: is sex drugs in rock and.
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 2: Roll and audio.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: Were there stories, some stories that were great to hear,
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: but beyond the piss that we just can't.
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 3: Print that, No, I don't think so. I don't think
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 3: there was any severe trait people were. You know, it's
• 1:51:23
  Speaker 3: still happening today. We've got macho men and and uh,
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 3: stuff like that going on. It's probably worse now than
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 3: it was then. Uh No, I think we I think
• 1:51:35
  Speaker 3: we told enough to to cover that that angle. Of course,
• 1:51:40
  Speaker 3: we had to tell that part of the story because
• 1:51:42
  Speaker 3: that environment really was a part of the music that
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 3: came out at that time. You know, it was like
• 1:51:52
  Speaker 3: it was. It was a time where it was it
• 1:51:55
  Speaker 3: was you know, love INDs, There was birth control pills,
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 3: there was pot, There was you know, before cocaine was
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 3: found to be you know, more than just a recreational drug.
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 3: But there was plenty of time where this the combination
• 1:52:15
  Speaker 3: of these elements was very productive, was very creative, and
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 3: it wasn't dangerous. As with all drugs and alcohol and
• 1:52:26
  Speaker 3: things like that, there are people that will lose sight
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 3: of where it's going and disappear. And but I don't know,
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 3: I think we we touched on it the way it was,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 3: and we didn't overemphasize it. But it's part of the
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 3: music that we love today from the from the seventies,
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 3: you know, not being done again.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 2: I'm going to disappoint you with my answer to this question, though, Bob,
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 2: because you want you wanted some desolations. I'm gonna give
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 2: you somebody because I'm not gonna give you some solations,
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 2: But I'm going to give you something that I think
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 2: we we did put enough of a rapper around in
• 1:53:02
  Speaker 2: the book. Okay that yes there were tons of groupies,
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 2: and yes there was a lot of sex going around,
• 1:53:08
  Speaker 2: and Howard Caitlin tells the story of groupies being passed
• 1:53:11
  Speaker 2: around in the hotel room. So yeah, that's rock and
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 2: roll in the in the seventies. Uh. What we didn't
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 2: point out well enough, I think is the fact that
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: women played a really big role in the successive record
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 2: plant all right. Yes, Uh, Ankie Revson was the woman,
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: was the was the book, paid the bills and put
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 2: the money, put the money. She was the money bags
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 2: behind the studio. Glorie Burton put put Roy Sakala in business.
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: Marta Kelgrin, Gary's wife named the studio Gloria Gloria Stone
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: ran the place. A woman by the name of Lillian Duma.
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: Davis was one of the first rock and roll engineers.
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 2: Jimmy Hendrick had a woman engineer at Record Plant, New York. Right.
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 2: Another woman, Denny King, was an engineer. Women, like fran Hughes,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 2: reinvented the way studio booking took place. Rose Man was
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 2: a studio manager at Record Plan who reinvented book studio
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 2: booking as well creative booking for Record Plan and ended
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 2: up running the place for thirty five years. So I
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 2: know that's not the story that you may have been
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: looking for, but I think it's important to point out
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 2: although I'm sure there were many women who may not
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: have been treated well, but to Stone and Kelgrin, women
• 1:54:35
  Speaker 2: were a very vital part of the business of making
• 1:54:38
  Speaker 2: sure the business ran successfully, making sure was funded successfully,
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 2: and they played a big role in the success in
• 1:54:44
  Speaker 2: the studio.
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, Kelgrin drowns in a swimming pool. There's a fire
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: on Third Street. They moved the studio to Sycamore. How
• 1:54:54
  Speaker 1: does it end for Stone? Does he get it off
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: or he can't refuse or is he turned out? How
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: does it end and how does he cope with being
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: out of the business.
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 3: Well, I coincidentally, Gloria Stone just called that was the
• 1:55:10
  Speaker 3: ringing phone. I'll call her back, she described. I photographed
• 1:55:16
  Speaker 3: the night that George Martin and his manager. I'll remember that.
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 3: It was a great guy. They finalized the deal for
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 3: Stone to cash out Record Plant to Chrysalis Records. And
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 3: in the photos Stone is a very happy man. I
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 3: think after after all these years he was he was
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 3: getting he was bushed, and Gloria described as I think
• 1:55:49
  Speaker 3: I can see the canary feathers outside of his mouth
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 3: in the pictures where he's smiling. And I'd met George before.
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 3: It was it was a good time and it was
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 3: It breathed totally new life into the studio. Roseman, who
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 3: started on Third Street, transitioned over became the president eventually
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 3: of Record Plan on Sycamore, and it celebrated for many
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 3: many years after that. You know, they had us talk
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 3: about bedrooms. They had a special fluffy bed installed in
• 1:56:26
  Speaker 3: one of the one of the studios for Guns n'
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 3: Roses so that they could continue the tradition of sleeping
• 1:56:36
  Speaker 3: and making music.
• 1:56:38
  Speaker 2: So one of the thing they had is Stone was
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 2: a serial entrepreneur, right even after record playing. You know,
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: he kept on putting deals together. He built it, built
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 2: a deal with an audio dealer. He built the World
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: Studio Group. We got the greatest studios in the world
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: and started marketing them. He invested in a lot of business.
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: He was he was always putting deals together. The fact
• 1:56:59
  Speaker 2: this book, to a great extent, is one of his deals, right,
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: you know, his vision that put David and me together.
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 2: So Stone never stopped hustling and never stopped making deals,
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 2: even to the very end.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 3: I wrote a book with Stone called The Sound of Money.
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 3: Actually Stone wrote it, I edited it.
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what was that book.
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 3: Oh? It's basically a step by step how to run
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 3: a studio, how to make money, how to make it work,
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 3: how to be smart and not stupid, how to communicate.
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 3: We just you know, we did it like months by
• 1:57:35
  Speaker 3: month and it was published in Marty's magazine. We'd get together, Okay,
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 3: what are we going to tell the folks this month?
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 3: And he'd come up with an idea, and I'd give
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 3: him an idea and we'd knock it out and it
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 3: all got collected in a book and it's you know,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 3: the studio situation is so different now, but all the
• 1:57:54
  Speaker 3: basic business principles, many of these things personally affected me.
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 3: When I met Stone, I had just moved to LA
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 3: and I got started getting involved in the studio and
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 3: at one point Stone said to me, because he's mister Bonds,
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 3: he called he called me Bonds, he coined that name.
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 3: I was, I was the Bonds. He said, Bonds, you're
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 3: a fucking hippie. Come on, get your shit together. You know,
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 3: you want to make some money, you want to have
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 3: a business. You got to do this thing or forget
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 3: about it. And so he taught me so much and
• 1:58:33
  Speaker 3: I'm so grateful for that. That's what you talk about
• 1:58:36
  Speaker 3: a labor of love. It's giving back to how much
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 3: he had an impact on my life personally. And uh,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 3: you know he was. I asked him once if do
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 3: you want to be loved or feared? You know the
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 3: answer feared. But there are many people who worked at
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 3: Record Plant that he bailed them out when they had
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 3: health problems. He maybe bank rolled a down payment so
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 3: they could get by a house. I know a lady
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 3: now still lives in the house that was instigated by
• 1:59:11
  Speaker 3: Chris Stone. So you know that's kind of the legacy
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 3: that people don't know about Stone. I wouldn't say, you know,
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 3: he was a pushover. No way, you couldn't pull the
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 3: wool over Chris Stone's eyes. Because he could see through
• 1:59:29
  Speaker 3: situations like like Kelgrin could see through music, Stone could
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 3: see through business. That was the combination, that was the chemistry.
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 3: Neither one of them would have been successful without the other.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned the modern days. So many big rooms
• 1:59:52
  Speaker 1: have closed. People might get basics in a big room.
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: A lot of people just do everything at home. So
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: what's the status today and is this an era just
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: in the rear view mirror or is it something you
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: can replicate if you have enough money to spend as
• 2:00:07
  Speaker 1: an artist. Where are we today?
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 3: Well, some of the big rooms are still doing well
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 3: because they to get the sound of it, like an orchestra,
• 2:00:18
  Speaker 3: you need a big stage. Stone towards while he was
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 3: on Sycamore, he took over stage M at Paramount a
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 3: Lot and ran that for about ten years because he
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 3: knew how to make it work and he had the
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 3: best technicians, the best engineers, and those rooms have to
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 3: be around, probably for the film business mainly. I can't
• 2:00:46
  Speaker 3: predict how long it's going to last. But we still
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 3: have here in La a number of really well run,
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 3: well maintained big rooms. One studio is probably going to
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 3: be uh part of the of an educational operation. I
• 2:01:06
  Speaker 3: can't get into the details now, but you'll be hearing
• 2:01:09
  Speaker 3: about it for sure.
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: So you know, Sasolito, which was Gary Keligrin's masterpiece, right, beautiful,
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: beautiful walls and woodwork and designs, still was closed for
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 2: many years. People tried to open and try to close it. It's,
• 2:01:26
  Speaker 2: you know, finally some well bank rolled entrepreneurs got it
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 2: back up and running, and it is running again, uh
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 2: you know and again. Uh you know. So it's it's
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: wonderful that it's up and running. Let's face it, you know,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: the big the days of the big studio is over
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 2: by and large. There are some of that still exists fortunately,
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: but by and large they're all gone. Sick of the
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 2: studio on Sycamore. The Record Play closed last year, made
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 2: huge noise. That was a hugely successful studio even after
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 2: Chris Stone was gone. You're talking about you know, be
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 2: Kanye West, Guns n' Roses, you know, endless amount of
• 2:02:04
  Speaker 2: major artists recorded there. Closed last year. The record Business
• 2:02:10
  Speaker 2: as you write about all the time, Bob, is not
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 2: what it used to be. Digital change to everything, or
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 2: not only changed the way music musicians make their money
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: or don't make their money, the way labels make their money. Uh,
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 2: that way music is distributed. But certainly the way music
• 2:02:24
  Speaker 2: was was made, it was done. You know. The first
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 2: digital recording studio was Steven Sills and an engineer named
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 2: Michael Bronstein at Record Plan in in l a first
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 2: first digital session. And and Still's is doing a recording. Uh,
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: and they're doing a promotion for I think it was
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 2: three m was the digital tape machine at that point,
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 2: and and there and they're a they're running analog and
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 2: digital tape at the same time. Right in those days,
• 2:02:50
  Speaker 2: was it was digital tape. And Still's is listening. They're
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: doing a playback and they're listening to it, and everybody's
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: waiting for it. Stills looking at Stills in the through
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 2: the in the control room. You know, how is he
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 2: going to react to the new digital digital sound? It's amazing,
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: he said, And and you know what, he takes a
• 2:03:09
  Speaker 2: sharpie and writes on a piece of paper and holds
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 2: it up and he points it to the engineer to
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 2: the scientists or who had invented these new digital tape machines,
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 2: He says, scientists, you failed not because the digital and
• 2:03:23
  Speaker 2: those early sound of digital was not even as good
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 2: as analog. And there are people to this day, you know,
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: in the audio files as well as even some many
• 2:03:32
  Speaker 2: recording engineers who were working on vintage gear who feel
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: that digital doesn't quite live up to the sound quality
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: of great you know, a great two track, two inch
• 2:03:43
  Speaker 2: sixteen track tape machine. But there was one other, probably
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: more significant change that digital made in the recording business.
• 2:03:53
  Speaker 2: Are musicians don't play together like they used to, you know,
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 2: they they mail it in, they email it in. They
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: they remotely work. They were remote working. We're you know,
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 2: we're doing this remote when musicians do the same thing.
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: Bands don't play together like they used to be in
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: the studio because those studios don't exist anymore. The space
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't exist anymore. So that's changed the business forever and
• 2:04:15
  Speaker 2: to change the art form and that's something that even
• 2:04:18
  Speaker 2: you know doesn't exist the way it once was. And
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 2: that's probably the biggest impact of digital was the remote
• 2:04:26
  Speaker 2: production of music and the way bands now work.
• 2:04:30
  Speaker 1: What do you think Bob, oh, this is a long
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 1: conversation that we can like another two hours, and.
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 3: So does our book encapsulate what the way it used
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 3: to be?
• 2:04:42
  Speaker 1: What people if I get into this discussion all the time,
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: people say, oh, it's the same as it ever was.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: You're just too won't No, it is not the same.
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: Just like in the Renaissance. They've painted and sculpted ever since,
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: but there was only one Renaissance. You talk about everybody
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: being I remember one of the first couple of times
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: I was in the room. I remember once at the
• 2:05:06
  Speaker 1: record plan. You know, in the early days in the sixties,
• 2:05:08
  Speaker 1: you'd go to the studio, You book three hours and
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: you work three hours.
• 2:05:13
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: Then the Stone started to write the songs in the studio,
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: as did the Beatles. But the Beatles broke up. People
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 1: have no idea. Forget if you're you know, you have
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: a lockout for months, that's the thing unto itself. But
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: you would have twelve hour block, how much time would
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: the people actually spend recording if you got eight hours
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 1: out of that block. I mean, you know, oh, we're
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 1: going to dinner, and you'd go to a dinner for couple.
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: And if you were somebody counting.
• 2:05:42
  Speaker 2: The dollars ago.
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: This is insane. We're just burning the money.
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 3: But oh we we we got to get that snare
• 2:05:50
  Speaker 3: drum sound right.
• 2:05:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, but there was money to burn, you
• 2:05:56
  Speaker 1: know there. You know, other than a handful of artists
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: you talk about playing together, they don't do that. They
• 2:06:03
  Speaker 1: can't afford to do it that way. The economics don't
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: work out. Record company won't give them that money. But
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: the reason the record company won't give them money is
• 2:06:11
  Speaker 1: they can't make their money back. So the other thing
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: that people forget is these were professionals. These were not hobbyists.
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: They may not have had a degree from an institution,
• 2:06:25
  Speaker 1: but they had paid their dues and they were very
• 2:06:30
  Speaker 1: intelligent in certain verticals. It's not the same anymore. The
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: other thing I readly it is not the same was
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: we have huge income inequality at this point in time.
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: We have winners and losers. And if you have a brain,
• 2:06:44
  Speaker 1: you talk to young people today. They want to start
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: a career. They're afraid they're going to end up with nothing.
• 2:06:51
  Speaker 1: Whereas during this era you could live on one hundred
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: dollars a week, couldn't live like a king, but you
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 1: weren't living on the street. Okay, if you made it
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 1: as a rock star, listen, there's so many There's not
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 1: only the studios. You know, the cell phone camera killed
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: all the antics on the road. I mean, there's a
• 2:07:12
  Speaker 1: lot of different things. And if you wanted to know
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: which way the wind blew, you know, you turned on
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: the radio put on a record. People haven't now this
• 2:07:19
  Speaker 1: is people have no idea. Taylor Swift arguably the biggest
• 2:07:24
  Speaker 1: artists in the world. I get into this all the time.
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: Most people cannot name one song off the new album,
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: never mind singing it. She has her fans and she's big.
• 2:07:35
  Speaker 1: I'm only put it with a satisfaction Hotel, California. Unless
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: you were deaf, you knew the song. These people were
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: royalty in a way. You know, you talk about life
• 2:07:48
  Speaker 1: in the Fastling in the book with the Eagles. They
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: were living a life completely untouchable by us, and it
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: was mysterious and they created these songs out of thin air.
• 2:08:00
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not the same today. On that note, gentlemen,
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: I think we've come to the end of the fielding
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: We've known. I can get a lot more questions, but
• 2:08:14
  Speaker 1: people can read the.
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 3: Book started to cry, Oh no, Bob.
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: Just to give a little sales pitch for the book.
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: And I never lie. People send me books all day long.
• 2:08:25
  Speaker 1: Drives my girlfriend nuts because they pile up. And I
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: got a pre publication version of your book, but I
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: was traveling and then they sent me the finished hardcover
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 1: and I say.
• 2:08:38
  Speaker 2: Well, I have to crack it.
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: I mean, people don't know you.
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 2: You live in La.
• 2:08:43
  Speaker 1: It's all the psiconography, all this frame you moved to La,
• 2:08:46
  Speaker 1: all this stuff from the Frank Zappa records. Oh there
• 2:08:48
  Speaker 1: it is Pico and Sepulvida. Oh Monty Legion Stadium. You
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: drove by the record plan. You know there was an
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: entrance way, but otherwise it was all with this, you know,
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: sort of psychedelic, said the recordend. It was happening in there,
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: but you couldn't get in there. This book not only
• 2:09:07
  Speaker 1: you know there are a lot of people who know
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: a lot about this because we all read the credits.
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: This adds fills in the hole some of these people
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: I know, like Ezra in etc. You learn stuff you
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 1: don't know. It's very readable if you have any interest
• 2:09:23
  Speaker 1: at all. The book is totally satisfying. I highly recommend it.
• 2:09:29
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Bob.
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: Thanks Bob.
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: But that's why we're doing this. It's honest. I mean, people,
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you talk. I can tell the stories about
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: being the studio, about being in the record plan. It's
• 2:09:43
  Speaker 1: like when people go to a show, to the forum,
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: but even better, you talk about Calgrim being the rock
• 2:09:47
  Speaker 1: stars Fashia. You are inside the record plan, the person
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: on the record, they're just walking by. You know, all
• 2:09:55
  Speaker 1: this magic, it's encapsulated in this book. Anyway, gentlemen, thanks
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: for doing this. Until next time. This is Bob lefts
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: it
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: Sh