Latest / NHA Today Podcast / Water Fasting Benefits, Safety, and Science with Dr. Alan Goldhamer | NHA Today
Transcript
- Stephan Esser: Hello and welcome to another edition of the NHA Today podcast. I'm absolutely delighted and thrilled to get to interview and spend some time with one of my mentors, Dr. Alan Goldhammer. Truly the world's preeminent expert on water-only fasting, he's the founder of True North Health Center, author of multiple books, including The Pleasure Trap, Can Fasting Save Your Life? and is a passionate advocate for truth in healthcare. And of course I'm most impressed by his willingness to test and prove the benefits of fasting for human health. And through his testing, right, proving the safety and the efficacy of fasting for multiple conditions and the research, the work just keeps on going and going. Dr. Goldhammer, welcome to the podcast. I always love having you. So True North Health is now over 40 years old. Is that correct? What was the founding date? I mean, you had to have founded this when you were 16. So. Alan Goldhamer: I'm glad to be here. Yeah. November of 1984, we started at the new, at the, know, TrueNorth Health facility and the original facility. So yeah, 42 years ago. Stephan Esser: Congratulations. You know, when you think back, how many total patients on at what you say, have you cataloged fasting that have come through true North in that time period? Alan Goldhamer: Well, we've had in excess of 25,000 fasting patients over that time. Stephan Esser: Absolutely astounding when you think about it. I mean, I truly the probably more than just about anybody else right in at this time in history, you know what Yeah, what was your vision? For true north when it first started and has that vision changed over the last 40 years? Alan Goldhamer: ⁓ I would imagine so. Well, Jennifer, my wife said that the real motivation was trying to prove we're right and everybody else is wrong. ⁓ mean, you maybe that was the, there's some truth to that. We knew we wanted to do some research to document the results that were and had been seen by, you know, hygienic doctors for forever. What we do today is really the same thing that your grandfather did many years ago, now we're getting better at explaining how it is that those same practices seem to be effective. And I think that's the real of research. It doesn't really change necessarily what you're doing, but it can help you understand better why what you're doing is working. Stephan Esser: You ha- I was going to say, you've proven, right, as I go through and look at the scientific studies that you guys have published, right, you've proven that it's A, safe, right, on average for individuals under appropriate medical supervision. B, you've demonstrated that simple diseases like hypertension seem to just kind of melt away. But what other sort of disease processes are you guys researching now or what other sort of research should we all know about that's happening at True North? Alan Goldhamer: Well, you know, it's interesting that the diseases and the dysfunctions that seem to respond the most consistently to fasting are those conditions associated with dietary excess. So people fool the satiety mechanisms in their brain by adding chemicals to their food. And that results in systematic overeating. Those chemicals include salt, oil, and sugar. Salt, oil, and sugar aren't actually food. They're hyper concentrated components of food that are added back to food. to make food taste better. And what tasting better really means is stimulating more dopamine production in the brain. And so whether it's humans or animals, if you give them these chemicals, they systematically overeat. get fat. About 10 % of that fat is visceral fat. And visceral fat is hypertrophic and hyperplastic. It acts like a tumor, giving off inflammatory products that causes certain diseases, diseases of dietary excess, diseases that used to be so rare, they were called the diseases of kings. it was the wealthy elite kings that could afford to overeat consistently enough to get them. And so it's not surprising that the conditions that respond best to fasting are obesity and its consequences, cardiovascular disease, including hypertension, diabetes, autoimmune diseases where the body's attacking itself, things like rheumatoid arthritis and ulcerative colitis and ankylosing spondylitis and asthma eczema and psoriasis, these kinds of conditions. And also some forms of cancer, particularly we've had a chance to look at lymphoma and its response to fasting and have managed to publish some case report and case series related to the effective management lymphoma, including now we have 10 year follow-up data with people that are still cancer-free. fairness though, the results that you see with fasting are dependent on people doing dangerous and radical things like eating well. exercising and going to bed on time afterwards. If you don't sustain diet and lifestyle changes after fasting, the results of fasting are going to be short-lived because you're not actually curing anything. All you're doing is managing it, and you're managing it with healthy living rather than pills, potions, powders, treatments, and surgeries. Stephan Esser: Powerful stuff indeed. And as you said, so simple and yet so quote, dangerous in some people's minds. And so you mentioned to me off camera recently that you're kind of doing some interesting research also on like the biochemistry of what occurs at the cellular level, genetic markers, things like that. So tell us a little bit more about that if you would. Alan Goldhamer: we're very fortunate to have a director of research named Tasha Myers, who's got a PhD in postdoc from Columbia University, who was a, you know, genomics researcher, but, you know, a very standard science researcher who kind of got disgusted with the politics of research and decided she couldn't really in good conscience continue in that direction and joined our staff over a decade ago. and has been responsible for driving our research success, as well as getting our book, The Can Fasting Save Your Life written. And she's been ⁓ fabulous done a really good job at helping us move forward. Stephan Esser: Awesome. You know, we talked a little about the benefits of fasting and how much people can improve that intervention. What are some reasons that people would not be good candidates for fasting? Alan Goldhamer: ⁓ Well, know, one of the big problems is lack of understanding about fasting and the fear of fasting. is a pretty expensive emotion. And so if you have a person that's irrationally afraid of fasting or the symptoms that come up in fasting, that would certainly be a contraindication. Also, not every individual is a good candidate for fasting. People that depletion issues, people that have conditions that don't typically respond ⁓ fasting, you ⁓ want to introduce treatment that's not going to be effective. We have a ⁓ particular we at True North Health where we have people go online. They complete a detailed medical history review that. offer them a free conversation to make sure that they're Looks like they're a good candidate when they come in, they're working with a physician to go through a history exam lab and ensure they're a good candidate. They're monitored twice a day so that they're able to, you know, we're able to avoid the potential complications, particularly in terms of dehydration or other things that can come up in fasting. And then they're carefully refed in a controlled setting. Cause one of the most important parts of fasting is careful refeeding after fasting. lot of the material and progress that's made as a consequence of fasting actually happens in those days. as you come off the fast and begin the refeeding process. Inappropriate refeeding can result in post-fasting edema, refeeding syndrome, could be serious and even potentially fatal. So it's important that everybody that fast is, you determine is a good candidate for fasting, that's history, exam, and lab, that they rest and hydrate during fasting and that they refeed appropriately after fasting. If you do those three things, then fasting is a safe and effective intervention for the conditions that we're advocating. And in large part, because of the work that you did when you were with us many years ago, have published ⁓ the first extensive safety study involved in prolonged fasting. We've shown that this is a process that can be done safely if the protocols that are laid out are followed. If they're not like anything, problems can ensue. ⁓ Stephan Esser: So it sounds like for especially inexperienced individuals, fasting on their own for more than 24 hours is probably not an ideal ⁓ approach. Alan Goldhamer: Well, we recommend everybody fast every day on their own for between 12 and 16 hours. We suggest that people stop eating three to four hours before they go to bed. And that if they're trying to lose weight, maybe they might even delay breakfast in the morning so they can get their exercise in and preferentially burn some fat. But, you know, everybody fast for 12 hours a day. If you don't eat three to four hours before we go to bed. And then occasionally for appropriate people extending that for days or weeks, know, may be appropriate. But again, You got to make sure you're a good candidate. You fast in a restful and appropriately hydrated state and that you carefully refeed afterwards. Fasting is not something you do while you're driving cars and going to work and dealing with, you know, normal activities of daily living. It's a chance for introspection and give the body a chance to do what it does best. And that's heal itself. If you get out of the way. Stephan Esser: I love it. You know, and I think you're speaking, you know, I just always think about those individuals who are doing it the wrong way. And I think that's the beauty of what you do is there is such a science and such an approach that's a stepwise progression, evaluate the candidacy, make sure they're safe, do it in a setting where they're appropriately supervised, right? And then the downtime and then the time on the way out the door. And then also now you're offering support for people when they return home as well, is that correct? Alan Goldhamer: Yeah, well, we started to live stream our daily ⁓ lectures and educational programs at the center. We have doctors that specifically are able to help people provide remote All of our attendings are available to ⁓ their ⁓ remotely. know, we've tried to take advantage of the tremendous benefits from new technology. And so it's been, I think, ⁓ allowed to provide a more enriching and a more sustainable. In fact, we did a study with our colleagues from the Mayo Clinic recently in treating high blood pressure. the 27 people that completed the study, 26 were able to achieve normal blood pressure without any medication at six-week follow-up. One required osteolimited dosing. And interesting enough, at a one-year follow-up without focused ongoing support, 76 of those patients had maintained their weight loss, and the majority was still having normal blood pressure without any medication. So we've actually been able to show now that at least highly motivated self-selective patients are capable of not only getting well with fasting, but sustaining that. And now not everybody was perfect, but they did well enough that they maintained their weight loss, which is probably a good marker that their dietary compliance was enough to maintain normal blood without meds. So we are optimistic that it's not. Stephan Esser: Awesome. Alan Goldhamer: difficult to do, but it is difficult to do in a world designed to make people fat, sick and miserable. And that's the world that people are living in. And the effort that it takes to overcome those social pressures, at those instinctive ⁓ those addictive consequences is great. And people have to be prepared to pay the price. And that's a price of time and energy. Stephan Esser: Yeah, that's where your book, Pleasure Trap, right, is such a fantastic read, I think, kind of going through the psychology of living a healthy, vital life and why most of us fail in that. ⁓ When you... Alan Goldhamer: Well, the Pleasure Trap is a disturbing book, yeah, because it tells people what they need to know but not what they want to hear. And, you the reality is getting healthy in a world designed to make you fat, sick, and miserable is amongst the most difficult thing people ever do in their lives. Stephan Esser: Yeah. Yeah, I love in the book that concept of the channel factor, right? That kind of channel factor in your life. So it's directed in a specific direction. I that's just been very motivating to me to think that it's not just about white knuckling, discipline choices left and right, but rather setting my life up in such a way that it's just directs my river. And then I don't have to think about this stuff as much. Alan Goldhamer: You know, the reality is, particularly, you know, some people have, as we point out in the pleasure trap, some people it's more difficult than others. The people that have the most trouble are those loving, caring, kind, considerate people that are always trying to help other people or concerned about other people's feelings. because you know, they're the ones that have the most difficulty because even in their success, it stirs up, ⁓ problems in what we call energy vampires, ⁓ people that do what they do best. And that's make other people as sick and miserable as they are. So by comparison, they don't have to feel so bad. And so they'll constantly be trying to undermine people's success for their own ⁓ And it's a huge challenge. These psychosocial issues are complicated and difficult. ⁓ For of us that aren't as concerned about other people's thoughts and feelings, it's a little bit easier. But if you're neurotypical and you have ⁓ one those kind people, you will have to work harder at Stephan Esser: You you mentioned the obviously the extreme benefits of fasting for a large swath of the populace. And then also mentioned a little bit about the nutritional recommendations you have with regards to salt, oil and sugar intake. Can you tell us more about the health benefits of an SOS free program in your mind? Alan Goldhamer: Yeah, you know, we advocate in a diet, not that it's plant based, but exclusively whole plant foods without the addition of salt, oil and sugar. So what ultimately is a vegan SOS free diet, you know, just going on a vegan diet may be good for the, you know, moral, ethical and spiritual issues. It may be good for the animals. It may be good for the planet. It may be good for your health in terms of avoiding animal food, but it's not enough. you know, Coca-Cola, French fries, potato chips, all may be vegan, but they're not necessarily healthy. And so when we coined the term SOS-free, the idea was to identify the fact that not only do you want to avoid the animal products, but you also want to avoid the ultra-processed components in food, the chemicals, the salt, the oil, the sugar, that make people fat sick and miserable. So a vegan SOS-free diet, or as I described, an exclusively whole plant food diet that's SOS-free, is really a better, more accurate way of describing the type of diet that promotes health span. The idea is, you know, how long you live. your life expectancy is largely determined by genetics and luck. You can shorten it, but you can't do anything to lengthen it. What you can do though is affect your health span, the number of years you're alive where you're going to be fit and vital, capable of taking care of yourself rather than unable to talk or move lying in some nursing home bed waiting for people to come and change your diaper. And so the idea is if you're trying to maximize health span and not have the average 12 years of debility that most people experience as a consequence of their poor health choices, Adopting an exclusively whole plant food SOS free diet in my opinion is the one of the most important things that you can do Stephan Esser: I think that leads right into the question I was actually about to ask, which was, you know, that this whole goal of prolonging function, performance, this health span term that you mentioned very popular to talk about right now for understandable reasons. So if nutrition, if that SOS program is one of the sort of, you know, the legs of the table, what would you say three more legs would be? Alan Goldhamer: Well, the other most important issues are exercise and activity. What you don't use, you really do lose. In a natural setting, our ancient ancestors never had to worry about this because they were forced to move. They got hot, they got cold, they got thirsty, they got hungry, or they didn't want to get eaten. And so they had to move around. Those that didn't move around, didn't survive, they're not your ancestors. Those genes died out with them. And the fact is that most humans never live long enough for you Only your ancestors did and they were the ones that got enough to eat and didn't get eaten and they moved around and so we're designed to be able to be ⁓ be mobile and build strength flexibility balance and endurance. Those are all very important issues. Today you don't have to exercise. In fact many males in our societies actually hire other people to exercise for them. ⁓ called the NFL and so what they do is they sit in overstuffed chairs watching other males engage in mock warfare, pretending to be part of the winning coalition. That's not the best way to exercise. Exercise is things like walking, hiking, biking, swimming, hopefully a variety of activities, ⁓ I said, that builds flexibility, endurance, strength. And if you do that, then the component is sleep. You one of our most important activities is sleep. you, it's in the non-REM sleep in realms of sleep at the anabolic cascade of healing hormones that are associated with healing take place. So if you don't sleep enough, you don't heal as well as you would. Energy itself is necessary. ⁓ That of ⁓ ADP ATP and all those other processes happen during sleep. If you don't get sleep, you're going to have fatigue. If you have fatigue, you're not going to be interested in exercising. You're more likely to be trying to eat stimulating foods to feel better under the illusion that you're hungry rather than fatigued. ⁓ Getting diet, sleep, and exercise, these are the keys. And we use fasting to undo the consequence of things that people aren't able to fully control, dietary excess, environmental stress, and other issues. So fasting is just a remedial tool to try to give the body a chance to make up for things that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Stephan Esser: Good tips there like all three of those areas should be our targets for all of us to be pursuing. I noticed that TrueNorth also offers now some online coaching. Do people have to have been seen at TrueNorth in order to ⁓ use resources or can they just call up and sign up for health coaching? Alan Goldhamer: Yeah, no, our doctors are all available through health coaching. They just complete the same registration forms that gets us their medical history. And they're able to provide coaching and counseling. There's some limitations. They don't write prescriptions. They don't make diagnosis over the phone. But oftentimes they will work with a patient's local doctor. For example, some people are good candidates for fasting. They might want to do a short remote fast if their doctor's willing to be supportive in terms of exam and lab and support. Stephan Esser: Mm-hmm. Alan Goldhamer: Our doctors can provide the kind of daily remote coaching that's, you know, sometimes their local doctors wouldn't have the experience or the willingness to be able to participate in the combination of their local doctor and our remote doctors can sometimes help people get through fasting or modified fasting experiences that are helpful and appropriate to be done at home. For longer fasts or people that have more complicated conditions, they're going to need to come to True North or one of the other facilities that specialize in medically supervised water only fasting. Stephan Esser: Nice. In June of this year is the annual conference of the NHA. I know you're going to be there sharing your passion. Can you give us a sneak peek about what you're going to be discussing or sharing with us? Alan Goldhamer: got brand new stuff that I'm really excited about. ⁓ Dr. and myself and AI have been working really hard ⁓ on new slide deck that is really about extending health All of the things that you can do to try to live better, longer. it talks about, ⁓ ⁓ the research available diet and fasting and as that affects health span. So that's just coming into. play right now. We're just finishing those up and the first time I'll be presenting that will be at the NHA conference this summer. Stephan Esser: Awesome, so everybody you need to go sign up either online or in person to get there and hear this fresh off the podium. You you established the True North Health Foundation some time back. Can you tell us kind of what the purpose of this foundation is? Because that's one of things I have to say I've always admired about you is I truly believe that your passion for moving forward the science on fasting, et cetera, has never been about money, et cetera, but rather this vision of, know, so. Alan Goldhamer: Thank Well, Trinidad Health Foundation is a 501c3 nonprofit organization that's dedicated to health, ⁓ and research and particularly as it relates to fasting. And have managed to publish 24 papers in the peer review literature as well as our book, Fasting Save Your Life? Stephan Esser: Tell us what the True North Health Foundation's all about. Alan Goldhamer: We have plans for a really large, interesting study that's called the Navigator Study, which is basically we're going to be enrolling 3,000 people and tracking them the rest of their life. And what we're really looking to do is what influences help people avoid that last 12 years of ability, how to make the last 20 years of your life the best years instead of the worst years. And so, you know, that's what that study is going to be done. And it will have a large end and it will also be for a long period of time. So we'll be able to tease apart. a number of the variables we're interested in. As a part of that, we've put it in place a really sophisticated electronic macro record system that's built on Salesforce. We've just launched that a few weeks ago. And what it does not only allows to bring all of a person's relevant medical history together, but it allows us to track it over time and make it very efficient. as a consequence, that was a really important component in being able to do a large epidemiological study like this. So we've got that in place. We've expanded True North Health facility considerably. So now we have a large enough base. have 85 patient rooms. So we're able to accommodate these patients over multiple years in order to be able to monitor the effect of fasting. And we've also gotten the personnel in place in terms of the research personnel and employees. have over 70 employees now at True North Health, including over a dozen clinicians. And so we're at a place finally where we think we can begin to develop this study. We actually have ⁓ two in review right now at the National Institute of Health. ⁓ they're the point where on June ⁓ 29th, should hear on the one if it's going to be funded or if there's additional work that needs to be done. we've gone far this rather detailed process that you have to do. for NIH funding and we've gotten good feedback from them so far. So we're optimistic that we're going to be able to engage with them in ⁓ with the funding of this ambitious project. More importantly, it'll help us when it comes to publication too. Getting published in major impact journals is a great challenge, particularly for people doing some of the alternative work that we are. And the bigger the journal, the more people you can piss off. So I'm really excited about the prospects ⁓ forward. Stephan Esser: Fantastic. know, congratulations, Dr. Goldhamer, and thank you for continuing to be such a leader in this field. know, 42 years of practice here with True North Health, tens of thousands of lives transformed, dozens of scientific papers published, just amazing. And you deserve all the accolades for all of that. I'm so appreciative for you continuing to move the science forward with all of this. You know, I wanna, as we close up, I love it. Alan Goldhamer: Congratulations, Dr. Goldberg. Thank you for continuing to be a leader in this field for 42 years. I feel like we're just getting started now. mean, it's really starting to ramp up. Stephan Esser: which is exciting times. That's why we need to keep your health span for another 20, 30 years at least. So as we think about this, I want to just give you a chance here if you can, anything you want to say to the viewing audience to leave them with as we're closing up now, I'll leave your final words from Dr. Goldhammer on this before we close. Anything you want to say to the viewers. Alan Goldhamer: Well, as we say, health results from healthful living. So healthful living involves diet, sleep, exercise, and when appropriate, fasting. So if you want to be healthy, be prepared to pay the price and do the work. Stephan Esser: Thank you very much Dr. Goldhamer for joining us today. Alan Goldhamer: My pleasure.