Latest / Spiral Tending / Intuitive eating, GLP-1, insurance as a dietician, and how business changes with the times

Transcript

Intuitive eating, GLP-1, insurance as a dietician, and how business changes with the times · Spiral Tending

0:00
Hello and welcome to the Spiral Tending podcast.
I am Andy.
I am the owner and operator of Spiral Tending, which is a coaching business for healers and therapists.
I offer one-to-one private practice coaching support morning somatic spaces to help us nourish our bodies, money, support.
And I also run a healer's listserv, which is open to all types of healers for us to connect, build community, have a place to self-promote and honestly have a place that moves us outta scarcity.
Right now is a really hard time to be a small business owner.
You can look me up@spiraltending.com.
Hi, Leah.
Thanks for being on the show.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah.
Why don't you just start off by telling people who you are, what you do, Sure, things.
My name's Leah.
I am a registered dietician and certified intuitive eating counselor, and I support folks in my private practice helping people to heal their relationships with food and body through the non-diet framework.
I use the intuitive eating principles, which, it's basically like the opposite of dieting.
Instead of telling people what to eat, when to eat, how much to eat, it teaches people how to connect with their bodies and innate wisdom to get those answers.
Hmm.
And I also host the podcast Shoulders Down.
I love talking about intuitive eating, anti-D diet, health at every size, healing a relationship with body and food.
It's really messy and complicated stuff, especially more recently in the age of GLP ones.
But I love in it with people, the messiness and talking about it.
How did you enter this work? Like what pulled you to do this? Yeah, it's, it feels like a tale as all this time and like on my podcast, I talk to a lot of dieticians, and I'm sure there's similar things with therapists, but I had my own struggles with food.
decided to study nutrition from basically a disordered place of like, oh, I'll, I'll perfect this.
Discovered along the way that I was struggling with disordered eating, which I didn't know because disordered eating is not only normalized, but praised Totally.
I thought I was just being healthy.
But, no, I was struggling with, what I now understand is orthorexia, which is an unhealthy obsession with health and some binge eating too.
then I was really lucky in undergrad, I learned about intuitive eating, which is quite rare because it's still pretty up and coming.
And so I was really lucky to encounter it early on and it helped me immediately heal my own relationship with food.
And I was like, this is the exact work I wanna do.
And I started doing this exact work as soon as I possibly could.
when I became a dietician.
the like dietetic internship program and yeah, after I did kind of like my, my required time in a hospital doing things I didn't exactly wanna do, I left to do the work that I feel so called to do.
I think that so many of us find ourselves in these field from lived experience.
I think that's where the beauty is because you know what it's like to be on the other side.
can you just tell people a little bit about what exactly intuitive eating is and how you might tell someone for the first time who like enters your office space? I.
So Intuitive eating.
I have the book right here.
I don't know if you're using video or not, but there's the book, intuitive Eating by Evelyn Traian.
Elise Rush is a framework that was coined in like the late 1990s, and basically what happened was.
Evelyn and Tribo and Elise Rush are two dieticians.
They were seeing clients and doing what most people think dieticians do, which is like, here's a meal plan, here are the rules, here's a calorie limit.
And they were trying to help people with weight loss 'cause that's what so many people want, wanted and still want.
people would lose weight, keep it off for a little, and then come back to their office and be like.
failed, like, you know, I wasn't disciplined enough.
I gained back all the weight.
Evelyn and Elise kind of had this, they were both having this experience in their practices and they, I think they shared, office space.
So they were talking about it and, they had this moment of like, you know, it can't be that all these people are fault, are not disciplined enough or doing this wrong.
Like it must be the approach of dieting.
And so they started to.
research on like non diet approaches and ultimately Intuitive Eating was born, which is a self-care framework that helps people to cultivate, Attunement with their body's cues.
And it exists at the intersection of instinct, emotion, and logic.
So people often think like, oh, intuitive eating.
Just, you know, eat whatever you crave.
And that's true.
That's part of it, but it's not all of it.
It's also, involves.
and emotion.
So what that means is like instinct is, oh, I'm hungry.
Let me eat.
Which might sound simple, but it's revolutionary.
Yes.
you'll lose And then the emotion and logic piece is, so emotion might be like, you know.
I'm not hungry, but I'm at this birthday celebration and cake is being passed around and I'm gonna choose to eat, even though I'm not hungry, because I wanna be a part of this.
I wanna feel connected to the celebration and engage with the, the fun, the tradition.
That is birthday cake, for example.
And that's just to say like.
It intuitive eating isn't the hunger fullness diet, which means you're not only allowed to eat when you're hungry, and it's not that you have to always stop when you're full because we eat for other reasons.
So that's an example of the emotion piece.
Instinct, as I said, is pretty straightforward.
I'm hungry, let me eat and full, let me stop.
and logic is, you know, maybe you wake up in the morning and you're like, okay, I'm not hungry, but it's 7:00 AM and the next chance I'll have to eat is, I don't know.
11 or 12 if you have back to back meetings or classes.
So from a place of logic, you might override the fact that you're not hungry and say, oh, I'm gonna eat because I'm looking out for my future self.
And I know that if I don't eat, I'll end up in a ravenous state.
That could lead me to eat past, comfortable fullness or binge or not be able to focus at my job.
And so the key thing with intuitive eating is.
It's all about going inwards to get these, this information.
Whereas what most of like culture, diet culture teaches us is to outsource our eating decisions to number of points or calories or the time of the day or the rules of the moment.
The whatever, keto, paleo, whole 30, whatever it is, and intuitive eating says those things won't be sustainable.
Maybe they'll work for a little, but there'll be backlash where you feel out of control.
Mm-hmm.
so instead, we're gonna go inwards instead of outsourcing.
You said GLP one, and I know that we talked about talking about insurance, which I do wanna get to the business side, but GLP one, I feel like intuitive eating and GLP one are like two things that I.
Talk about often as a therapist.
And something that has been interesting in my field is there's a lot of therapists recommending GLP ones, especially for people who wanna do weight loss.
And can we have a little conversation holding GLP one and the complexity and diet culture and all the things that are happening right now? Yeah, it's such a big topic to tackle and I can send you some podcast episodes on my podcast that you know, to link folks to.
'cause there's so much to say.
But I mean, for one.
You have body autonomy if you wanna go into GLP one for intentional weight loss, you have every right to do that.
The big thing is a lot of people aren't getting informed consent, which is okay if you go on this, here's what you can reasonably expect to happen.
Here are some known side effects.
a lot of, unfortunately, people are not getting informed consent.
They're seeing an ad for GLP one and just, yeah, yeah, I want this and not really, Get, and that's not their fault.
That's like a product of the system, not, doing a good job educating consumers.
so yeah, GLP ones are, are not new.
They're, they're being talked about a lot more, but they were, originally put on the market for folks with diabetes to help with blood sugar control and.
Researchers notice this, this outcome of weight loss.
And of course, you know, so much is about capitalism and money and, they started being marketed for weight loss a couple years ago at this point.
And they are very effective in the sense that Yes.
they still haven't been on the market that long, so we don't know.
What happens, long term? What, and actually we kind of do know, we're starting to see that, you know, people go off them and they gain all the weight back, if not more.
which isn't surprising.
there's some pretty serious side effects, like ranging from different digestive issues to, increased risk for thyroid cancer.
and it's, it's scary.
There's big, kind of marketing money machines behind it.
there's a lot of research that is questionable 'cause it's funded by the companies like Novo Nordisk who make the GLP ones.
Hmm.
they've positioned like thin is back in.
And then people are like, great, how do I get thin? And they're like, here you go.
Here's how you get thin.
So it's really hard and it, it's, as a disorder professional, it, feels sad because it felt like we were making progress a couple years ago and Totally.
I have compassion for people who wanna go on them.
I've worked with clients who have been on them and went off of them.
I have friends who have went, gone on and off of them.
The marketing is compelling.
I get it.
It's really, really hard.
I'm not a medical professional.
There's so much about GLP ones that you honestly just educated me more than like every Instagram post I've been looking at.
But like one thing I do know and am witnessing is, and I would love to hear your thoughts about this but there's a lot of therapists like going into practice I think with like doctors and stuff right now and like really kind of like promoting this as like, yeah, weight loss.
Here we go.
And what are your.
opinions about therapists joining GLP one Worlds when we're not trained medical providers.
Yeah, I know that's, I don't know if you can really answer that, but it's complicated.
I mean, I think therapists are always there to help a client make whatever decision is best for them given their.
Many unique circumstances and there's so many considerations of like, just positionality of Yeah, like finances and, other things of like, yeah, like there are increased privileges that come with being thin and, and I don't have lived experience being in a larger body, so I can only imagine from, you know, listening to the people I work with and, other people's stories that I don't work with and how.
Appealing it, it is Yeah.
dangled of like, if you just lost weight, you might be taken more seriously or have more opportunities, have more dating potential or what, Yep.
so I get why that might seem like a good option as a therapist to, to help a client.
And my worry is that weight loss is often just the tip of the iceberg.
Yes.
clients all the time where they're like, well, I lost weight and I still hate myself.
And that's because.
so much of body image is actually in the mind, and so the body can change, but the neural pathways can still be like, well, my worth is connected to, you know, is, is hinging on my outside appearance and maybe it's not your weight anymore.
Now it's like, I don't know how toned you are or like what your hair, skin, nails, any of these other things.
so it, I've, in my experience, it's not.
Such an effective way of supporting folks deeply and in the long term, it's kind of a bandaid.
yeah.
I mean, I've worked with clients where they're like, yeah, I look at old pictures of myself and I was thinner and I remember still heating myself then.
And, and that's just proof to me of like, it was never actually about the body.
It was about.
How, you know, beliefs, you held, deeply held beliefs about yourself or, yeah, how you viewed yourself.
And those things don't just change when you lose a bunch of weight on a GLP one or get plastic surgery or you know, do something exterior like that.
It takes a lot of really hard, deep, messy work, which is the kind of work I think is to happen in therapy.
So I guess to answer your question.
It worries me.
I, I think it's, would maybe be a quick fix for people, but, perhaps not like an effective long-term healing approach.
Yeah.
I have similar worries For therapists, I, I also share similar worries and I, I worry what this is gonna do for insurance and medical health providers in the long term of what is being requested of us, around treatment and quickness and these like.
The way that we're already pressured in insurance to, and this might be different in your field, but to perform very quick work.
And then my second question for you is what is it like for you witnessing this, like in working with people and how does it impact you Like personally or professionally? both? Yeah.
I mean, personally it makes me sad.
I have people close to me in my life who, who like, have gone this route and I understand why.
and like I worry, you know, it's a really serious thing to go on a weekly injectable that hasn't been on the market for this use for that long.
And worry about the long term impacts.
and also like the greater social like.
implications of Yeah.
Reinforcing this idea that like thinness equals worthiness when that's not true.
in terms of like how it affects my, my work, I.
I mean, mostly I, there's a lot of clients sharing feelings of like defeat and feelings of like, frustration with it being marketed at every corner on the subway and, you know, targeted ads on Instagram and everywhere.
a lot of clients sharing frustrations.
I've had clients or doctors have offered it to them unsolicited, just based on their BMI.
Um, I've had clients where like.
I had one client, um, she was attending a birthday party and it was at a dinner and one of the girls brought a shot of GL, like a GLP one shot in a lunchbox as a gift for the birthday girl.
Um, so that's happening.
Um, yeah, so like, Woo.
Most of the people who I'm working with are like, clear on this isn't what I wanna do, and it's really hard to resist.
And here's all the, the.
You know, ways I'm seeing it pop up in my life.
I've had one client who went on it and, we stayed working together and then she went back off of it because it totally impacted her ability to hear her body's cues.
She lost any pleasure in eating.
She was constantly nauseated by every smell on the street.
and then we kind of had to do some work to get her back in tune with her body after that experience of like breakdown of cues and trust, yeah, I think I'll probably see more of the fallout or like, kind of like long-term ripples in a few years.
I think right now we're still in a stage of people if, if they're gonna do it, they might be trying it now.
and with what it's like to go off of it later.
And there's many reasons people go off of it.
The side effects the cost.
so yeah, I, I don't think I'm like fully seeing like how it's impacted the, the industry right now.
Thank you.
This is very helpful in, I think offers a different perspective than.
The ones that I have been hearing, so thank you.
What have you been hearing? oh man.
I have been GLP one here or there.
My, everyone in my life is on it.
Wow.
and Washington.
in Oregon and I, I have, hypermobility, I like don't have acls.
I have a super weird body and I have other medical stuff that happens and I think.
I am just waiting for my doctor to be like GLP one and you know, like my medical professionals have told me that they're on it and how great it's been for them.
What feels most complicated is when I'm expressing how sad I am in this moment, like with the Epstein files and how we view of like, you know.
people in general and bodies, particularly women, trans folk, non-binary, like I.
I think that there can be space for the grief of how our bodies have never had full autonomy and how my opinion is also potentially taking away autonomy for someone wanting to lose weight, and at the same time really wanting a space to be held in the grief of, I just want our bodies to be loved.
Like what a silly moment in time to be.
I literally surrounded by people who are assaulting women and trans people and men like gender based violence at all.
And like not having a space to connect body and that like I just, it doesn't feel good.
So yes, that's been my experience.
I'm in such like a bubble of the anti-D diet world.
We're all like, like grieving basically.
But yeah, in personal life it's, there's a lot of people.
I, I went, I'm from the east coast.
I went home a couple months ago and it felt like the tour of like, who's on a GLP one now? Yeah.
Yeah.
can we segue to, what it's like to take insurance in your field and how it sounds like you've had actually a really good experience.
Yeah, I mean, I can't speak on like, for the whole field because as I'm sure you know, it depends on like the state that you're in and the types of insurances you take and, the populations you work with.
Like, you know, some diagnoses, like if you're a diabetes dietician, it could be easier than you know.
eating disorders or whatever, like, there's so many variables.
So I can only speak to my experience, but been in practice, in private practice for, I'm in my sixth, sixth year I started taking insurance a little over a year ago, just about, pretty close to a year ago.
and what happened was, my first few years in business, was private pay fully, was also, Getting a lot of clients on Instagram and then, like, yeah, like two years ago, I, as you know, the person that we're connected through was like, I wanna leave Instagram.
and Amelia Herbie, who is our mutual like connection, I found her work really helped me to have a plan to leave Instagram.
I did it, I executed, and then I was like, okay.
Dang.
Like my business has really slowed down, is a complicated thing.
And I have a feeling that that would've been the case even if I was still on Instagram, Yes.
lot of bigger dieticians with giant followings who still went the route of starting to accept insurance because it just wasn't sustainable because of the economy and the current political environment and just all the things.
So, I'm not, I mean, it's like, yes, me leaving Instagram and my business slowing down is like correlated, but I'll never exactly know if that was the cause because.
I can't go back in time and like keep everything the same except for that one thing and like run, run another, another experiment and see.
but that's my very strong hunch just from like seeing other people in the field.
and so I started taking insurance.
Yeah, there was a big learning curve moment, but I, Decided to seek out someone in my area with my specialty, accepting the type of insurance that I wanted to accept, which was, an eating disorder, dietician in the Bay Area, accepting Blue Shield of California, which for my research, seemed to be the one that would pay the best.
And, and I paid her for her time for like, maybe two hours of her time.
She walked me through everything.
I learned what I needed to learn.
I applied, you know, kind of fumbling around through.
Non intuitively designed websites, you know, which is like so much accepting, you know, like admin.
But I just try and just see it as like, the previously I'd spend my time fumbling around on Canva, making posts and trying to Yeah.
marketing material for Instagram.
And so it's just like, it's just different.
And in one case, like you're spending time on marketing, the other case you're spending time on this like admin stuff, which.
F my case, did eventually lead to more consistent, clients and referrals and stuff.
And a lot of people are like, oh, but like, that's so much extra time.
And like, I just see it as like, or like, you're getting paid less.
And I see it as like, yeah, you're getting paid less, but like they're doing something for you.
Like they are kind of.
It's a form of marketing to be listed in their directory.
I started accepting insurance.
it was pretty seamless.
They pay pretty quickly.
I think they pay pretty well.
It's less than my private pay rate, but again, I, in my head I'm like, that's the cost of them, you know, like make this work more accessible and, and yeah, having a form of marketing.
And it's just really stabilized things.
And now I take three kinds of insurance, blue Shield, Aetna, and United.
and I'm pretty new to United and Aetna, but so far so good.
I see it as a game, like, I'm just like, let me just try and like learn this game and play it.
And I just try to like gamify it.
That helps me.
yeah, it's, it's brought a lot of new kinds of clients that I don't think would've had access to working with me when I was private pay only, which is nice for me 'cause it kind of, it feels like it keeps my brain sharp of like different, kind of cases.
And it just has brought me a lot more peace, it feels like less pressure.
when you're charging a lot of money for sessions, it can feel like more pressure.
And in many cases, my clients pay nothing and I get the full, you know, whatever the session rate, the contracted rate from insurance.
so yeah, it's just been like very regulating for my nervous system and it feels.
feel grateful to have had the courage to try something new, even though something else was working for four plus years before.
you're not alone as a service-based provider in that.
especially in the health field, we will never know if it was the algorithm that totally fucked us or the economy or all of it.
Like, I don't know, but.
or just Instagram.
Uh, being out of its like heyday moment, like TikTok became a thing and like, like when I started on Instagram it was 2018 and like it was a different time.
I think people are jaded and like sort of burnt out from being sold to.
So like, it could Yes.
or, and just be like, it's just a different time.
And I, you're speaking to something really important is that financial stability is like part of being a small business owner in my opinion.
And when it is like fluctuating, like.
When you lose a private pay client, sometimes that's $800 just right out of your income.
It, it sucks.
and it's also part of being a service-based provider, but like I, I am with you that taking insurance has also settled my nervous system, even though it's amped it in other ways.
too.
I do.
I take three and I've had a very different experience than you.
therapists have had different experiences.
I've heard that the contracted rates are not as good, so, so there might be like so yeah, I just wanna say that I've heard that.
it's interesting.
Is Big tech coming into your field? How it is ours? So like it hit you guys first with like better help and like all those big, you know, like venture backed platforms that like, you know, promise, like such ease and oh, like we can just get you right in and match you to the perfect therapist and it'll all be so easy.
A couple years ago, and I also think that slowed things down.
Yes.
are like Nourish Fay Berry Street.
yeah.
And they have crazy money budgets for like advertising and it's on every podcast and every, yeah.
So yeah, we have that too now.
Okay.
And it, what has that been like in your field? Like how are the conversations around that? I don't really know.
it sometimes stresses me out to talk too much to other dieticians.
'cause it just, I just compare myself.
And that's the thing I love about not being on Instagram, is that I'm not like, oh, what are they doing? And like, oh, Yeah.
Like, I just tend to keep to myself.
I have a few dietician friends who like losing clients to these big companies.
But I have to say I've worked with.
A handful of clients who have said, yeah, I was working with one of these big companies and like didn't feel like I was getting good care because the person seeing 15 people in a day and they're burnt out and can't be deeply present with the client, which is so much of this work.
my hope is that, in like a few years when everyone wants to go back to flip phones more, and I think we're kind of already seeing that unfold, that people are also gonna really want, private clinicians again.
Mm-hmm.
Like I, I think that for some people it is easeful, especially if you're across state lines.
And like there is some things that they have done that are super annoying that I'm like, yeah, that makes sense.
And you get to do that because you invest in insurance companies, so you run the law.
Whereas us small business owners, it's against the law to do things like that, which is so annoying.
Yep.
So my hope is that it does turn around and I also just wanna like go back and speak to the financial piece I think that a clinician, a practitioner being regulated financially is like probably one of the biggest things of being able to offer a service long term.
and.
And I think it's very brave to go the insurance route, even with the horror stories.
Yeah, for me it was less the horror stories 'cause I'm like, alright, I'm competent.
I will figure this out.
Like I made it this far, I can figure out how to take insurance.
Like, yeah.
people are like I, I, when I was living in New York City, people like when it was like when I was moving from Vermont, which is where I went to college and to New York City, it was like.
Everyone's like, you'll never find an apartment.
It's impossible.
It's socra.
Hmm.
in like middle school or high school, when people are, like taking a test and like, there's like multiple periods and like, it's like everyone has this test and like words spreading throughout the hallways of like the precalc test is so hard.
Like I just, it really bothers me when like people just get in your head like that.
Like I always knew.
I'm sure I could figure out insurance.
I and also don't like be insulting to like service, service based or like helpers, like, you know, dominated fields like dieticians and therapists.
Yes.
The thing that was harder for me was this belief that, like, I was gonna say, I'm not sure where it came from, but I am sure where it came from.
It this like kind of like girl boss dumb belief that I think came from following a lot of.
and, know, business mentors on social media.
I developed this belief that like I, if I really made it, I wouldn't need to accept insurance.
Yes, So that was the harder piece for me than like, oh no, the horror stories, it was like feeling like I failed.
Feeling like, oh, even though like, and also feeling confused 'cause it's, it feels like less typical to go from.
Making it work with private pay to having to accept insurance.
And like I made more money each year in my first four years in business than I have in the last two years.
a hundred percent.
yeah, this stuff isn't linear, like all the cliches that we already know, so that was a harder piece for me.
I think, I don't know what it's like in your field, but in my field there is a very big divide, a private pay and insurance based.
And is it similar in your field? Yeah, I mean, I've really seen both sides now.
I think there was, but now I've seen so many people that used to be private pay only kind of just come crawling over to the other side and being like, I can't, like, and, and it's like, at the end of the day, it feels like it's a matter of like, how much do you love this work? yes.
are you willing to, to try something new? Yeah, it.
Oh gosh.
Yes.
Yes.
And the, I do think that it does something to our mind to be scrolling.
these coaches that share how much money they're making, which usually actually is not from, it's, it's usually from brand or whatever the fuck shit is coaching coaches yet.
client B2C would, they're all B2B.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it's like I, yes, in my field that is very similar, I think, the divide is actually lessening, which is kind of nice to see because my hope is that we can all unite and, you know, take over and, I don't know, show these people whose boss, which is not them.
and it has, I really feel you.
It took me years to do insurance and.
I am also grateful I did, and I call it like the little gremlin elf money that I'm grateful for.
It feels like a gift in so many ways, because I don't wanna be spending my time marketing for my therapy practice that is hell on earth in that way.
and yeah, I, I think that Instagram.
The internet in general, the amount of ads, and, and now it's picking up even more with, I don't even know what's happening to the internet.
Like, I don't even wanna go on, but like, I think the stories that we can tell ourselves keep us actually obviously stuck, but within that stuck in our business.
Like, so yeah, way to come out of that hole.
Thank Yeah, tell me like what it's been like, you've, I mean, you've shared a lot about how it feels better, it feels more stable.
How have you noticed that like your soul has changed in this process and like what you give to the world or what you can take and all those things? It's a really interesting question.
how has my soul changed in the process of accepting insurance? I know, I know.
I don't really know the answer to that.
I, I think.
What's coming to mind is I use notion to organize my life, my business, and my life.
And like I just wrote like a little kind of quote for the year, mantra for the year, and it just says 2026 is the year of saying yes.
So it, to me, it, it has allowed me to say yes to a lot more people.
It used to be like I'd have a discovery call and it's like, here's my super high ticket offer for this bundle of coaching sessions.
Or Sorry, I have nothing at all for you That I feel like I was kind of led to believe, like if they have a financial objection, like is it really a financial objection or like, do they just, are they just not ready to do the work? Like feel like it's just opened my soul up more and allowed me to more people, support more people, have more access to, like options for supporting people.
'cause in accepting insurance now I also, I'm like, okay, well if I'm taking insurance, like let me also do some sliding scale spots.
And yeah, I think it's just created more openness and just a good reminder that like you can always change your mind.
You can always change your mind and the times have changed.
I think you're super onto something with that.
And how we do business is gonna change in these times, and I think in a couple years it'll also shift and saying yes and being open.
What is something that you want people who listen to this to know or take away? What I want people to take away from this is if you are doing all the things you're told to do to like be good and be healthy, and like you're.
Only eating in certain times of day and like limiting yourself to a certain amount of calories or restricting certain food groups and trying to be good and like something inside you feels like.
All I can think about is food.
When I'm around foods that are off limits, I feel out of control.
You're not alone and there's a way.
Of relating to food that isn't morality based, that isn't black and white, all or nothing, that isn't diet based, that isn't hinging on restriction and deprivation.
There's a way of relating to food that's about pleasure and connecting with your body, your body's innate wisdom, listening to yourself and your own intuition.
And if you wanna learn more about that, it's called intuitive eating.
And yeah, there's a great book on it.
I got a whole podcast on it, so.
Yeah, maybe this is your first exposure to it.
My favorite type of client to work with is a intuitive eating newbie of like, let me, like, let's, let's start, because I work with a lot of people who come with a lot of stuff of like, oh, well I heard this about intuitive eating on TikTok and, and you know, kind of, and that's okay too.
I love working with those folks too.
But it's really fun to get to kind of just share the magical world of intuitive eating with someone from the start.
It really sounds to me like intuitive eating and trauma healing are obviously connected, and what a beautiful thing.
How can people find you? Do you want people to listen to your podcast? so the best places to find me, my website, leah kern rd.com
has everything, you know, place to sign up for my newsletter.
Where to find my podcast.
If you just wanna look up my podcast on its own, you can type in Shoulders down, that's the name, to, yeah, anywhere you listen to podcasts, Spotify, apple, anywhere.
Hmm.
Thanks so much.
Thank you, Andy.