Latest / Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell / Life After I Left - Leaving an Abusive Relationship

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Life After I Left - Leaving an Abusive Relationship · Reflect Reclaim & Liberate - with Sallyanne Hartnell

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate, a podcast covering all things relationships, separation and divorce.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: How to create healthy, happy, fulfilling relationships without sacrificing any part of yourself.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Supporting anyone feeling challenged in their relationship or marriage, these are confidential conversations for you if you're navigating separation, divorce or reorganising life afterwards.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Decide whether to stay or leave a relationship or marriage, divorce with less drama, and consciously choose what's next for you.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast is recorded, the Warrantry people of the Kulin Nation, and pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I acknowledge them as the original storytellers of this land.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to this week's episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And today I'm welcoming Kat Dunn to speak about life after I left, leaving an abusive relationship.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So trigger warning.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's not something you're comfortable listening to today, perhaps here pause and come back at another time, or skip over and come back next week.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Kat Dunn is an award-winning online business manager, mentor, speaker, and the founder of the speakers event and podcast Life After I Left.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: With a background in corporate administration, marketing and communications, Kat transitioned from virtual assistant to OBM, specialising in streamlining systems and providing strategic guidance for visionary coaches and creatives.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: She loves all the stuff that we coaches hate.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: She mentors aspiring OBMs through her vibrant community at the OBM Motley crew, helping them confidently level up their skills and impact.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Kat is also a domestic violence advocate and sought-after speaker, empowering women through her raw honesty, resilience, and transformative storytelling.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Her mission is to help women reclaim their power, amplify their voices, and build businesses and lives that they love.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I hope in fact, I'm pretty sure you're going to enjoy this conversation with Kat Dunn.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Kat Dunn, welcome to the podcast.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Hi Sally Ann, thank you so much for having me today.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're so welcome.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And we finally, finally get to record together.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a mission, but we're here.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Kat, Life After I Left.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a big and emotionally tender topic, but I wonder if we can go back.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: We'll start by going back to early days, early cat.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: What did love relationships, what did that mean to you, or what were you taught growing up about love and relationships?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly wasn't taught anything about love.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Reflecting back, I know my parents loved me, but it was very different to what I witnessed other kids' parents loving them looked like.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we didn't hug, we didn't say I love you, you don't kiss, you don't do any of that stuff.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: My dad's love language was money.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So if you performed well or he was in a good mood, you might get a pound, which is a dollar, to go to the shop and buy some chocolate.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or every so often you might get a couple of hundred pounds to go buy a computer.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: That was how he showed up.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: My parents' relationship was very volatile, it was very violent, it was very abusive, but I didn't know that wasn't normal because that's all I'd known.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my siblings, we were pitted against each other because dad wanted, you know, straight A's, pass your driving test first, you know, become a really good swimmer, all those things.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned to perform in order to receive attention or affection.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't necessarily a loving affection or a loving connection with my parents.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And from a very, very young age, and I'm thinking about five, this is what five keeps popping up in my head.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: My dad taught me that the man comes first.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: Never get fat, never gain weight, never look unattractive, make sure that he's satisfied, make sure that his needs are prioritized above your own.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, looking back, it was a projection of the fact that he was in a relationship, in a marriage, in a family that to be honest, I don't think he ever really wanted.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: But because of his generation, you get married, you have kids, and that's what you do.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't know at the time, but he had such a bad childhood that I think he thought, if I have kids and I have a family, I can make up for it, I can do better.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: But how could he do better when he didn't even know what the issues were in the first place?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I took all of those lessons, all of those learnings into teenage years, and all I wanted was affection.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: All I wanted was attention, but I knew how to perform to get it.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I was a straight A student, that's why I joined every after-school club, that's why I was in every single extracurricular activity, even if I wasn't very good, because I just needed somebody to tell me I was a good girl and I did well.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when it came to boyfriends, they always fancied my mate, so I became the tomboy, the friend.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when I did eventually start dating, it was from a place of cool, how can I serve you?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those early lessons from our childhood are so deeply ingrained, aren't they?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to even appreciate what you're learning when you're in the middle of it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's only when you can come out with a bit more maturity and look back across your across your life and like, oh that and that and that.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So if if you're comfortable, I want to take you to the beginning of the relationship that created life after I left.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think back to the beginning of that relationship, what do you remember about who you were then and what you were looking for?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd spent a long time, many, many years dating people that weren't very nice to me, but again, didn't really know any different.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And by the time I got to the last relationship, I'd I'd just gotten out of a nine-year abusive relationship, which happened in England and in Australia.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I kept jumping between these relationships because I didn't heal.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know I was supposed to do something different or perform differently, or guess what?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I deserve better.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I was in Australia and I had a few months left on my visa, and I met a person who was really fun.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: She could relate to what I'd gone through, and I was just cool, let's work, let's party, let's just have a good time.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, cool, I'm single, I'll make the most of it by just living it up, by doing what I did in England, which was live for the weekend.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: But my weekend became four nights a week going out drinking with this person and just having fun.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that was healing because I was free.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, I wasn't okay.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why else was I drinking four nights a week?
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Why else was I spending so much time with a person who seemed okay, but she balance had so many issues that she was dumping onto me.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I wasn't looking for anything.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was really, really upset to leave Australia.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: My visa was coming to an end.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'd built a life here, you know, my sister was here, and I was just thinking make the most of it before I'm forced to go back to England, where England felt very heavy, it felt like a prison because that's where I'd lived with my ex for nine years.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: We had a house, I was part of his family.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: He was gonna stay in Australia.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: I had to go back and what rebuild.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was terrifying because what do I rebuild?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have to go and move back in with my parents.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a way, I think I was rebelling a little bit, but at the same time, just avoiding absolute avoidance.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to deal with anything.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So when I met the next person by accident, they from the very first meeting just absolutely like worshipped me, made me feel so special and cared for and loved, and like I was magic.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was so intoxicating.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, oh my god, this is it.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is what it's meant to feel like.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is what it's like when it's nice, this is awesome.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: He really likes me.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Not knowing that obviously I was in the first stage of a love bombing cycle, and it's like a shark smelling blood in the water.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I was so I don't want to say damaged in the way that we're damaged, but like I was so not okay that when I was in that bar, it was just like he could just smell the blood, and he knew exactly who to go for because that's what his ego needed to satisfy his needs, and I completely fell for it because in my head he made me everything that I thought I wanted to be, but it turns out it was just the start of another abuse cycle.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I agree that they can smell the blood like shark tooth, like a shark in the water, absolutely.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's like they can see your vulnerability, what you need, and they just feed into that.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: What was your internal dialogue?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: Once you're in that relationship, I'm really interested to know what was your internal dialogue like?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: What were you telling yourself at the time to kind of make sense of what was happening?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do better, be better, love more, love harder.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it was well, he must be right because why would he be so angry?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I must have done something wrong because he's so upset.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he told me so many stories from the start of his crazy, I'm gonna say that inverted comic crazy, crazy exes, because guess what, girls?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's a red flag.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, I don't want to be like them.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, he suffered so much.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: I need to be better.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I need to prove to him that not all women are like that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which obviously is fake, it was a setup, just so he could then make sure that I became the crazy person by breaking all these rules he put upon me.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: But it was just try harder, be better, because my dad taught me that.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you get a B, you get you dare to get a B next time you get an A.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to get an A star.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's the only way you'll get love.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it was just I turned on my performance, performing cat.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: What do you need me to be?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: How can I be better?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, the longer it went on, the more rules that he imposed on me that I would break, ones that I didn't even know existed.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know they exist, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: That the person that when I first met him, he was like totally intoxicated with who I thought I was becoming, who I was trying to heal.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I then became what I thought he wanted, but he still didn't love.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: So who the hell was I supposed to be?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I just kept thinking, just keep changing lands.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, I even like I lost loads of weight, I changed how I dressed, I'd paint my nails to make him happy.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just did everything, but it still wasn't enough to the point where I just I didn't even know what I was supposed to do in order to make this person love me.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or who you were anymore, right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Kat, a family lawyer that I know who's actually been on the podcast and spoken a bit about this, she describes um knowing you need to leave as the snap.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: She says it's like the bending of a green twig, it bends, it bends, it bends, it bends, and then suddenly bang, it snaps.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering for you, was there, you know, that snap, that light bulb moment, or what what was the realization when did you start questioning things?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, from the very first few weeks, I could feel it in my tummy, like something's not right.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, he displayed very strange behavior from the get-go.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: But as I had in the past relationship, I ignored the red flags.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I gave up my whole life.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: I moved here, we were together, we went through COVID together.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it was towards the end of the relationship, so almost three and a half years in, it was the point where he was just the punishment cycle was getting so long, and I didn't know what rules I was breaking, and I couldn't make it better.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: That one time we're having a fight and he left me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And his punishment cycles were he never hit me because he was too clever for that.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: He used to silence me, he would literally just ignore me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: He'd be in the house and would not speak to me, and it went from one day to two days to a week to weeks.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And this fight was the first time he'd spoken to me, and so I like jumped onto like, oh my god, he's speaking to me, cool.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: But then he runs away, and I'm standing in the middle of the apartment, and I'm just absolutely bawling my eyes out because I don't know what I've done wrong, and I don't know how to fix it because he won't tell me, and I just wanted it to stop.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sharing this on my podcast soon that I talk about the story a lot, and there's one bit I leave out, and it's I'm standing in the middle of a hallway, and I can see into the kitchen, and I'm just staring at that knife block on the side of the kitchen counter, and I just keep saying, I just want it to stop, I just want it to stop.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I stood there for about 20 minutes and I couldn't move.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the first time I really thought it's him or me.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know how, I don't know where it came from, but something inside me went, do not do this, do not let him win.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: You don't deserve this.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Luckily, I'd been in coaching programs, I had a community around me, and I think it was their voices almost rallying around me, going, It doesn't deserve this, it's it's not worth it, you can fix it, it's okay.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't go into the kitchen, I went to the living room, and to be honest, I didn't leave then, I didn't leave for a while later.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was when the punishment cycles got worse and worse, and it it's like I had to get out.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: But that was the moment where I said, You need to pick you.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: And this really isn't okay.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's really powerful to hear.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move to let's shift our focus to life after.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really thank you for sharing that part of that part of your story because it's hard, it's hard to hear, and I'm sure for you it's hard to share.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Once you'd made the call, the decision to leave and ended that relationship, how did you or what helped you start to feel safe or safety again in your body, in your choices, in your connections with other people, in relationships?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is a hard one because I'll be honest, the relationship ended many years ago now, and it's still something I'm struggling with because I don't have trust in myself.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because how could I allow myself to be there in the first place?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I work on every day.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to safety, and I was homeless for a long time.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I moved nine times in ten months.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have a physical place to feel safe.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But luckily, because I was big into working with coaches, I had a community around me, I did have people I could lean on and just share with and say, I'm really struggling, I don't know what to do.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they could just hold space for my story.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd learned tools that I could use, such as you know, connecting to my breath, putting my hands on my own body and knowing that it's okay, it's just me.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it's weird that I moved a lot because I had to, but in a way that felt safe because he couldn't find me, he didn't know where I was.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: When I first left, I was put into emergency housing and it was terrifying, obviously.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I was able to lock a door and my body slept for like nearly 24 hours because I realized it was the first time in three and a half years he wasn't gonna storm in and accuse me of cheating, or storm in and wake me up, or storm in and threaten me.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it was almost like from the very get-go, I felt safe because I was suddenly in a space where no one could find me and I could sleep.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when I woke up the next day, I was so shocked.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, that's what that feels like.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So then for the next few years, I was trying to chase that.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that time when you were locked in a room and your body felt okay to sleep?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: How can you find that again?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a big believer in there's lots of different tools out there, there's a lot of different things you can do, a lot of different people you can work with, but it doesn't mean that it's gonna work for you, and it doesn't mean it's gonna work for you at the time.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I've moved through several things as we as I've gone on through the years, but I'm lucky that a lot of the people in my life witnessed me in that space and could see where I was when I was with them.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So when I came out of it, they could reach out and go, Cool, how about trying this?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Have you thought about this or this this event or this this thing?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely didn't really go out, I stayed off social media that didn't feel very safe to me.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I focused on what do I need to do to get through today that I feel okay?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And even just having one meal or having a shower, or like I say, a journal, write something down.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And to be honest, I felt safe.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I just locked myself away and I watched Friends for 24 hours.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think associate on TikTok about millennials do this a lot.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: We find comfort in TV shows where we know how it ends, and so I became addicted to watching all these TV shows I watched when I was happy, Friends and Fraser and all those kind of things.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just knew what was to expect, and I knew his characters made me feel okay, and I could go back to a time when life wasn't so bad.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's a millennial thing, I think that's a trauma thing, Kat.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, but and the other thing is for somebody who likes to read rather than watch TV, and I often um recommend my clients do this when they're in the really messy hard parts of separation, divorce, they want to read but they can't settle to read.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Pick up adult um young adult fiction, something that you've read, something that if you're a parent, maybe you've read to your kids.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Harry Potter often comes up as a as one.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I totally understand that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: You want the predictability of something that made you feel happy, takes you back to an earlier phase of life, but you know how it ends, you know the outcome.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's so interesting.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned too um trusting yourself.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if you'll take us a little bit further into self-trust.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: How have you started to rebuild trust in your own judgment?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think helped you to trust that you can make smart, good, healthy decisions and choices?
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'll tell you when I know.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: No kidding.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: It is, it's a it's a daily struggle.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think the biggest thing about self-trust is you have to just follow through on what you promise yourself.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I go way too big.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I'm gonna help a million people, I'm gonna do all it's like no, no, no, you're overwhelming.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like self-trust.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, tomorrow I promise I will cook a healthy breakfast and eat it.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Tomorrow I promise I will take an everything shower.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: Tomorrow I promise I will spend less time scrolling on social media.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to start really small because I think I was constantly set myself up to fail because I wanted to prove myself right that I couldn't be trusted.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I still do it today.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got like this huge to-do list today, and I'm just almost procrastinating because if I don't do it, then I'm gonna prove that I can't be trusted.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's huge.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the biggest thing for me as well is obviously I've been around people who would abuse me, use me, all these kind of things.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I did have some really good people in my life that I could go to and almost ask the question of can you when I do something or if I share something with you, I have a decision, can you reflect back to me your opinion of what I think I'm doing?
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think I'm self-sabotaging?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do I'm a falling back under those patterns?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, that you have to do it with something you absolutely trust.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it with somebody that is, you know, just you've just met at a bar two days ago.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was able to then analyze in my life dating that person who was narcissistic, who was toxic, who was abusive.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd met people while with them who turned out to be very much the same, who were still in my life, and still starting to trying to control me or reflecting that they didn't like who I was anymore, and now I wasn't being abused because, or maybe I was too happy one day or too confident one day, and constantly trying to drag me down.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I couldn't see it until it was reflected back from someone else, saying, Why is that person still in your life?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: They don't like you, they talk to you like this, and it's not okay.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it was almost like having to lay out my life on a piece of paper and go, Who's actually got my best interests at heart?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I need to focus on serving myself and they're not happy to be on the journey with me, I cannot have them in my life, at least not right now.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I almost had to wipe the slate clean.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then with me, it was do those small steps of things I could follow through on.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a big believer in finding what works for you.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know I worked with a therapist, you know, I did eventually go into a healthy relationship.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_00: It has ended now, unfortunately, but I'm very grateful for it.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And when I dated him, I had to go to therapy to learn how to date him because he was healthy.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: He had boundaries, he had standards.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: He he knew exactly who he was and he didn't apologize for it.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I struggled so much because I just sabotaged it and I had such PTSD.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so she had to teach me about green flags.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to change my behavior in order to make sure that he was he was taken care of as well as I was taken care of in a healthy way.
• 22:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to do it, I couldn't have dated him by myself.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: It wouldn't have lasted two minutes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I was also in coaching programs.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had a relationship coach who could teach me red flags and boundaries and all those things.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I definitely feel like I needed people to point out those blind spots.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the more I learn and the more tools I gather, it means that every day when I have a decision, I start to build a little bit more trust and a little bit more trust.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm single for the first time in my entire life.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Since I was like early teens.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: I live in my own apartment.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm responsible for the rent and the bills, which is terrifying.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have my own, I have two businesses, I have my own community, have my own part.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot on me.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I will be honest, I freaked out recently.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really struggled.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what a what a gift.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: And what a joy to learn that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm, yeah, I could say I'm 39, I wasted 20 years with the wrong people, but no, it was such a gift because now I get to take that and turn that into how can I help someone else either leave an abusive relationship or build that self-trust, which without we cannot live the life that we need.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um my next question, you've just about you've preempted it because I was going to say, I don't believe in the, you know, everything happens for a reason.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes crappy things happen to really great humans.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And also there are things we can learn from our lived experience if we choose, if we choose to take that learning, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what has been your biggest learning since you left?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Given that your podcast and your event is called Life After I Left?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: My biggest learning.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: First time in six years.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have a lot of bad blood between my parents and my brother.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it was the first time I went back and I sat with them.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized we're all human.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: All people on the planet for the first time do the best we can with what we have.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd held on to this grudge of, you made me this way.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're the reason I was abused.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: You taught me to do this.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad never held space for me.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: My dad never wanted to hear about it.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: My dad never took any responsibility for the way he raised me.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: But it was the first time I let it go and said, Well, yeah, he's my dad, but he's also a man.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's also had abusive childhood.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: He also hasn't got a clue what he's doing.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's a human being, he's just trying to figure things out.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's in his mid-70s, he's still figuring it out.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's still learning, he's still growing, and he is better than he was.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Why hold a grudge against someone who never meant to hurt me?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was never intentional.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: And everything that happened from that, if it happened for a reason, we don't know.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I get to take that and I get to change the narrative.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So my biggest learning is I will never have kids because of the way I was raised, and I'm very comfortable with that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I have a niece, and there's no way in the world I'm going to give this trauma to her, allow her to be affected in any way from what I was raised in.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I do the work on myself, and every time I'm around, I'm around her, I want to teach her that she is beautiful and she is capable and she can have anything she wants, and she never needs to put anyone else's needs above herself.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really happy, and this sounds a bit weird to listeners.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really happy all that happened to me.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so grateful for it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because I can handle it, I can take it, and I can learn from it.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: And now I get to teach other people that what happened wasn't okay, but it is not the end, and you can have everything you've ever wanted because it is possible because I got it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I just got goosebumps cat.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um Is there anything else you would say to someone who's still in a dysfunctional, abusive, toxic relationship who's scared, uncertain.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else you would say to that person?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to say that.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay, you haven't left.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's not okay what's happening.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: It should never happen to you, and I'm so sorry it is.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: But if you feel like you can't leave or you're not ready, it's absolutely okay.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want you to be harmed, but it's really difficult, and it is the hardest part, and you do need a support network, and you need money and organizations behind you.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: You need to do it when you're ready.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want you to suffer any longer than you need to or you want to.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: But from someone who's spent years and years and years in relationships where everybody told me, Leave, you deserve better, what you're doing, why are you putting up with it?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you've been in it, you don't know how it feels, you don't know what it's like.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that part of you that still loves them, and when you leave, still loves them and wants to go back, and you feel so ashamed, embrace it.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's not a bad thing that you loved that you loved someone so deeply and they abused it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually a really big gift to love that much, and one day you'll be able to use that in a healthy way with children, with a pet, with another partner, and most importantly with yourself.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's not shameful to love somebody who took it and used it against you.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I embrace the shame because honestly, part of me still loves my abuser, and part of me, you know, wonders if one day he'll wake up and come back and find me.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: God knows, please don't.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's not gonna change as a narcissist.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, if I'd loved a little bit harder, would he have changed?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I do wonder about it because I was done.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: I loved him more than anything.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: But guess what?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't deserve that love.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I can take that back, give it to myself, and when I'm ready, if I'm ready, I can give it to a partner who deserves it.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you take care of you, and when the time is right, take that next step, and I promise eventually everything will be okay.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: So powerful.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um what does life feel like now, Kat?
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_01: What does life for Kat Dunn feel like now?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the biggest smile on my face.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, oh, I love my life.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love my life.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've struggled since, you know, ending my last relationship with a very I mean, I love him, he's great, he's such a nice guy, and I miss him desperately.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's my best friend.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: But that relationship taught me so much about myself and about how strong I can be and how capable I am.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: I now, you know, I have my own apartment, which, you know, is is scary.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of money to live in in Melbourne and by yourself.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I get to live, I have my own apartment, I have my own business, I get to support amazing women who are building coaching businesses that help other women.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, coaching saved my life.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I want to save other women's lives by supporting them with the things they don't know how to do systems, processes, all the things they call boring, I think is amazing.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: I have my own podcast and my own speakers event.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I took my experience and I turned it into a place where women get to share their story.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just about domestic violence, it's about what is it that you want to share?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: What space can I give you where you get to unburden yourself and someone else in the audience can see that it's okay, that they did it, that they got out and made this amazing life and business.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I get to have my own schedule.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to tell anybody what I'm doing.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to walk on eggshells.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: I get to sleep through the night, which I'm still a little bit amazed by.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm, you know, this is a huge trauma response to somebody.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's still things I work through.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: My neighbor knocked on my door the other night, and I absolutely was terrified because it brought up so much that I know I need to work on, and it is lifelong.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'll work through it, and I know I have scars that will never heal.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Internal scars, but they're still there.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know when my abuser is, I still see him sometimes.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have an intervention order, but I'm now distanced enough and done enough work that I feel able to be like, don't you dare interrupt my life.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked really hard to get here.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I get to now inspire other women to start sharing their stories, to build their own businesses, and to step out by themselves and build a life that I never even had when I was a kid.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I never had as a teenager, I never had in my 20s, at 39 years old, and finally the person I always wanted to be.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Finally the person that you always wanted to be, and maybe the person that you were destined.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about you know, destined to be.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us a little bit about how I've I've been to one of your events, and I'm gonna tell the listeners that so uplifting, so empowering, um, such a community, fantastic.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about your next event and how listeners can find you and connect with you.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: So, my event is called Life After I Left.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: As I mentioned, it's also a podcast.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I created it is because I started sharing my story and I realized that there's not enough stages for women.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the stages that already exist, it's the same women telling the same stories.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Big up to them, fantastic.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm more interested in why you started your business, not the picking up the kids from school, wearing your pyjamas.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you start your business?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: What is it about it that drives you?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: What happened to you that made you want to create and help and change the world?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I created this event last November.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: We've had three events so far.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is the fourth one.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the idea of it is I give the microphone to four women to tell a story that means something to them.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: And most of these stories have never been told before.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're not there at the event, you're not going to hear the story.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very much a formal, so get your tickets.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it's happening at LOEV in Marabin, which is in Melbourne, on the 16th of October, 6:30 till 9:30.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your MC because that's fun.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I get to just speak in between the speakers, keep the party going.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: There'll be tears, there'll be laughter.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's a so much chance to connect and network with each other.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the big thing for me.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's community.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that word gets a bit used too often and people don't understand it.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: The idea is this is a space where women are going to share the most vulnerable things about themselves, but also show you that there is light at the end of the tunnel, that they took that and they made it into something beautiful, whether it's business, life, relationships, family.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had women run up to each other afterwards, start businesses, start podcasts, say to me, No offense, I don't care about you.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: I came for that speaker, that speaker, that's exactly what I needed to hear today.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I want.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to be able to see yourself in something that we're often told not to talk about.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have a platform for.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the event where we get to be women, connect, and share the things that really, really matter.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: Kat Dunn, thank you.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing your story.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm gonna say personally, thanks, thank you for creating that event.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not gonna get teary, I'm gonna hold my tears.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the tears of gratitude and just um yeah, gratitude for creating that platform for women.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_01: The event that I attended was just amazing.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I will drop links to all of the bits and pieces, your podcast, your website, your event in the show notes.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else in closing you would like to add?
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: A big thing that keeps happening when I have the event or the podcast, or I go to events and I talk to women.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Women say to me, I don't really have a story.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing traumatic really happened to me.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to call BS because to be honest, you cannot compare traumas.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what happens a lot.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: My story's not as good as hers, my story's not as impactful.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_00: Don't tell yourself that.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Every experience you have is valid.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: You comparing traumas is a truly terrible thing to do.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same as trying to compare success and compare, you know, oh well, she's done this.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I want to, I want to be there as well.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a story to share and you're comfortable to share it, like you've done the work on it, it's not raw, you're not too vulnerable in terms of it's not gonna make you fall apart.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not, you don't want to stand on stage, you want to be on a podcast.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: I really urge you to find one person you trust in your world and share that.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: Have them receive it.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because the thing about storytelling is storytelling's been around since the dawn of time.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's how we communicate, it's how we spend more time with each other, it's how we build community.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing that I've learned by starting this event and starting this podcast is it can change the life of one person here in a story.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if that person's life changes, the ripple effect of everything around them will make the world a better place.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when you start doing the work on yourself, it affects everyone around you.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: The world is such a terrible, awful place sometimes.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you can change it by telling a story.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: You have that power.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're able and want to, that would be my advice.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: Kat, thanks so so much for sharing this conversation with me.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um I could chat with you forever and forever and ever, but we do need to close.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, thanks so much.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: Just fantastic to share with you, and thank you for being brave, vulnerable, and putting yourself out there to make the world a little bit better, telling your story so that the world's a slightly better place.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I trust you enjoyed Kat's sharing of her story.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not only the hard parts, but the celebratory parts that she shares.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that you will reach out and connect with her.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: If you are a Melbourne person, I really encourage you to get along to one of her events.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: They are beautiful, brilliant, uplifting, empowering, joyful, expansive events.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you'll have a great time.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not in Melbourne, maybe you need to come visit us so you can share the stories of the amazing women that Kat invites onto the stage of life after I left.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: As always, I'm so grateful that you're here and part of this community.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope and trust that you've gained something from today's episode.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you know somebody who would benefit from hearing Kat's story and all that she shares, please, please share it with them.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: She and I would both be super grateful.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, bye for now.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sally Ann Hartnell, divorce and strategist, and you've been listening to Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can follow me on Instagram at Reflect Coaching, and if you can think of anyone who would love or benefit from listening to this episode, please share it with them.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'd also be so grateful if you would follow and review the podcast so we can get in the ears of a whole lot more people just like you who are ready to reclaim and liberate themselves in life and love.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you'll join me next week for another episode of Reflect, Reclaim and Liberate.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Until then,