Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Sea Devils (6/6)

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Talks to Jason Thompson about his choice of The Sea Devils (6/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:23
None Hamster with a blunt pen knife
0:35
for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
0:40
Welcome back to our Hamster With a Blunt Pen Knife the A Doctor
0:46
Who Commentary podcast. There are others.
0:50
Other commentary podcasts are available.
0:52
Probably superior, although not with superior guests.
0:56
Hello, Jason. Pretty sure they have superior
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guests as well. Oh, I.
0:59
Believe you're on that one as well.
1:00
Coming up, I'm talking about the boy.
1:04
The only other commentary podcast I know is Toby Haydocks.
1:07
Oh well, yes. I may well be appearing on that
1:10
at some point, but I mean, you know, Toby's got so much stuff
1:13
banged, who knows when he's going to get round to the ones
1:15
that I gave him? He's got his fingers in so many
1:18
pies that, well, I'll stop there, shall I?
1:23
We'll both feature, eventually we'll.
1:25
Both feature eventually, yes. Jay, forward to it.
1:27
You and I are here together in the same room.
1:30
We are indeed. For the I think, rousing you
1:34
slightly less impressed conclusion to the Sea Devils.
1:39
Yeah, I'm not sure. It's a fantastic conclusion.
1:42
I like it, but I don't think it. I think it's a bit of an
1:46
anticlimax. It's a lot of action.
1:48
Basically. It's doctors who sort of being a
1:50
bit Hollywood. Yeah.
1:51
And it does have that one ludicrous bit right in the
1:53
middle, which I'm sure will come to, yeah.
1:56
You've alluded to this, you know, but well, let's wait till
1:58
we get there and you can tell me all about it.
2:00
I mean, I mean, I like this because I think this is probably
2:06
peak per wee in terms of production value.
2:09
There's a lot of great action in this.
2:10
Absolutely. Now I absolutely agree with
2:12
that. I know we're not in Doctor Who
2:14
for the action, generally speaking, and maybe except for
2:17
this era, actually, it's sort of.
2:19
Certainly only per wee. Well, this is the only era of
2:22
the show that has a a credit action by.
2:25
That's right. And there's a good reason for
2:27
that. I have ambassadors of death,
2:30
mind of evil. Oh, I know.
2:32
Ambassadors of Death episodes one and two are basically Havoc
2:35
show reels because they have massive stunt sequences
2:37
involving helicopters and soldiers and all that.
2:40
Fabulous. Which advanced the plot not one
2:42
bit. No.
2:45
But they are gorgeous to watch. I've said this and a couple of
2:48
times, but I'm going to say it again because it just makes me
2:50
die. You got Angeli Mahindra and
2:53
Sasha Dhawan on the season eight behind the sofas on the Blu-ray
2:58
and she actually goes and they're loving it.
3:00
They're loving watching it and she's going, Joe.
3:02
I always figured we had a a budget increase when the show
3:05
came back. You know we did Sarah Jane
3:07
Adventures and stuff like this. She goes helicopters and all of
3:10
this. She goes they had the money back
3:12
then. She's so impressed with the
3:14
production value and quite rightly, yeah.
3:18
And I I can see why, if that's really important to you, if the
3:25
production value is more important to you than the
3:27
storytelling in the mid 80s when you were getting stuff like Time
3:34
Fly and The Twin Dilemma and things like that, that you would
3:37
look back at this, this sort of episode and go charge.
3:41
And I was remember when they they flaunted all that hardware
3:44
and the Sea Devils. I get it.
3:46
I do. I do understand.
3:47
I mean the the to a certain extent.
3:49
The the problem seems to be universal in that although they
3:55
had the budget to do these things, they seemed with
3:58
remarkable regularity. And you'd think they would have
4:01
learned the lesson, as it were, to very clearly have run out of
4:06
money by the end of the year. Right behind the flight.
4:10
Has nothing like the production values of Earth shock, which is
4:14
right there next to it. And then you go to Time Flight
4:18
and you know the Armageddon factor looks cheap and nasty
4:22
compared to, you know, the Androids of Tara, which is a
4:26
gorgeous production and the Rebus operation and things like
4:28
that. And so they keep.
4:30
And the time monster. At the end of series nine, we go
4:32
from the Sea Devils with this fantastic production value that
4:35
we've commented as how how gorgeous this production looks,
4:38
how it all marries up the stock footage, the location, the
4:40
studio, everything looking fantastic.
4:43
To BBC Shakespeare. And then we get the Time
4:46
Monster, which Atlantis is basically a stage set and Cronos
4:52
is a bloke flying around on a harness.
4:55
You do get to see Ingrid pits, tits and all their glory, though
4:59
surely that cannot dent your enjoyment.
5:04
Well, I love Friday. I love Friday and stuff at you.
5:11
I'm sure had I I'm sure had I been watching Doctor Who as a
5:15
young man in the 1970s, Ingrid Pitt in The Time Monster would
5:19
have been a formative experience for me and she.
5:22
Was for a lot of people, you know, I think Katie Manning
5:24
might have been too, but no, I get what you're saying.
5:27
In fact, why Earth Shock and case of and Razzani didn't end
5:30
their respective seasons is baffling.
5:33
But then there are many baffling decisions made during the 80s.
5:36
I mean, the twin dilemma is not, I don't think it's all that bad
5:40
a story. Oh, I love it.
5:41
I think it's perfectly entertaining.
5:43
Production value wise and costuming, what the anyway?
5:48
There's a glorious moment on the commentary.
5:49
You know where they go into the base on Titan 3 and Kevin
5:53
McNally goes, well, you can tell as Mel's just turned up.
5:56
Here he goes. He hasn't even taken the shrink
5:57
rack off the sofas. They're really ripping the
6:00
production value but having a great time with it.
6:03
Well, Maurice Denham does elevate the twin dilemma.
6:06
If he wasn't in it, I think it would be a lot less enjoyable.
6:09
Yeah, he brings a lot of dignity to.
6:11
It The weird thing is though, with the twin dilemma that it
6:13
looks so cheap but the Jaconden costumes, the masks and the
6:16
hair. Yeah, really good.
6:18
The model shots are amazing as well.
6:20
Shots are gorgeous. Yeah, it's it's a odd beast at
6:24
East Doctor Who. But at the in the same story,
6:26
you've taken Edwin Richfield, who's doing fantastic work as as
6:29
Captain Hart in this story and covered him in a ton of rubber
6:33
so you can't see his face and he's muffled his voice.
6:38
Well, those weird sort of Star Trek and Dorian antennae, That
6:43
sort of limp over his head. Oh, and so that mask.
6:48
Well, you know what, we are watching Twin Dilemma today.
6:51
What we're going to do is watch something that everyone was
6:54
lauding whilst the Twin Dilemma was being broadcast.
6:58
The Sea Devils Episode 6. The Sea Devils, episode six,
7:02
yeah. Which?
7:03
Came, which brought to a close the 1992 repeat season of Doctor
7:07
Who. The first part of their season,
7:10
at which point there had been more episodes of Doctor Who
7:13
shown on the BBC in 1992 than there had been since 1984.
7:21
Wow. Although just you want to argue
7:24
the toss, 1985 had fewer episodes, but they were longer.
7:28
But of course, season 23 to 26 were 14 episodes.
7:33
In 1992 we had Time Meddler 4 episodes, the Mine Robber 9
7:37
episodes, because that's five. So that's nine And then six
7:41
episodes to see. That was bringing up, so 15.
7:43
So we had 15 episodes of Doctor Who in 1992.
7:46
But not new episodes. No and.
7:49
Although it felt it felt new to me.
7:51
And then we got 5 as a bonus in December because we got the
7:53
demons unexpectedly chucked in because they were so impressed
7:56
with the recolorisation. I had to get in a load of long
7:59
play tapes, you know, to try and record all this stuff.
8:02
I record. I didn't record any of the first
8:05
batch, which I wish I had, but I recorded Genesis of the Daleks.
8:09
Then I missed episode One of The Caves of Andrasani because I set
8:12
my video recorder wrong, remember?
8:13
The fun of doing that. Did you watch it though?
8:16
I watched it. Oh, thank God.
8:17
But I set my video recorder wrong and ended up recording an
8:20
episode of Coronation Street instead.
8:22
Oh. No.
8:23
What was your reaction when you watched it back?
8:26
I believe I may have uttered some words that my parents would
8:30
have been unimpressed with. 0. But what I did make sure I did
8:34
was record Episode 4. Oh, well done.
8:36
So I had episode four of The Caves of Andrew, CEO.
8:38
OK, I don't remember Mavis and Rita being in this episode of
8:42
Doctor Who. ITV.
8:45
You know, I used to have terrible trouble with my
8:47
tracking. There's some people listening to
8:50
this. Actually, most of the
8:52
demographic for this is 30 to 50.
8:54
I was. Going to say probably most of
8:55
the. People, although familiar with
8:56
it, to be fair there there is a bit of a spike actually between
8:59
20 and 25. So for you young people,
9:02
tracking is when we have the old VHS tapes, but they get a little
9:06
bit chewed, a little bit damaged and you get these horrible fuzzy
9:09
white lines going through the oh man, it would always happen
9:12
during the best bits it really irritate me.
9:15
We have to press the tracking button the plus and minus to try
9:18
and get rid of it. The first VHS recorder that we
9:21
had, actually, I can't remember. Yeah, I think even the second
9:26
one didn't have a bloody tracking control on the remote.
9:28
You had to get up and actually go to the machine and twiddle a
9:31
knob. You don't know how lucky you've
9:33
got it these days, young Doctor Who fans.
9:36
Digital Media. All of it on fucking Brit box in
9:39
one place, like all the eggs in one basket.
9:41
Is there anything more guaranteed to make you scream
9:45
like Omega in The Three Doctors than taking out the VHS and
9:49
finding? The take the big chewed out in
9:53
the. Machine and you thought you pull
9:55
it and it just keeps coming and the tape is.
9:58
You know, I I taped on a cassette.
10:00
This is how old I am, a cassette.
10:02
You know when you when you do have a pencil in the cassette to
10:05
keep all the thing in. I take the Paradise of Death off
10:08
the radio by pressing the play and the record button and that
10:11
got chewed up and when I pulled it out it was unsalvageable.
10:15
Basically, if I kept pulling that tape was going to and no
10:19
amount of tape was going to sort it out, oh, those were the days.
10:23
Yeah, I miss them, you know. I do too.
10:26
Because it was that. Those were the days where, you
10:28
know, like you didn't have everything at your fingertips.
10:31
So when Doctor Who had turned up on Blue Peter, I literally came
10:34
in my pants so excited. I was like, my God, get the
10:37
cassettes quick that. Was exciting, yeah.
10:41
And these days of everything being there on streaming and on
10:44
Blu-ray. And because every episode of
10:46
Doctor Who now. Has been.
10:48
I mean, I think it's wonderful that it's there.
10:49
Don't get me wrong. Absolutely.
10:51
Every episode has been released multiple times.
10:53
Even the missing episodes have had multiple.
10:55
Audio releases and we've bloody bought of each time.
10:58
I know I got the entire series on VHS, and then I got the
11:01
entire series on DVD and now I'm getting the entire series on
11:04
Blu-ray. What kind of idiot am I?
11:06
How much more money? I could have?
11:07
A much bigger house? Don't.
11:09
Sit there and pretend to me when they bring these out as VR
11:12
helmets, you are to immerse you in the actual story.
11:15
Yeah, you can be early. I'm going to be in the forest
11:18
when they running away from the mummies.
11:19
When they've got the holodeck set up, yeah.
11:22
You'll be there, you all will of.
11:24
Course I will. But yeah, it's just.
11:26
You know what though, when you think about the value, You could
11:28
have bought about 3 oz for that I.
11:30
Know. But what is amazing of course,
11:32
is with every subsequent release they take up less and less space
11:34
on your shelf. Yes.
11:36
And actually do you know these Blu-ray sets?
11:38
I know some people obsess about them on Twitter, but with good
11:41
reason. I mean, talk about having all
11:43
your eggs in one basket. I mean, it is a cornucopia of
11:48
special features and the it's just.
11:50
Extraordinary. They are brilliant.
11:52
I mean, a lot of the special features have been reported over
11:54
from the DVDs, and fair enough, they were good fun.
11:57
There's a lot of new special features that have turned up.
11:59
The restoration work on the episodes themselves is nothing
12:03
short of spectacular. This the Sea Devils, the sea
12:05
we've mentioned there. I was amazed by season 8.
12:09
Yeah, what I said to you off my The Curse of Pelodon shocked me.
12:13
Those those film sequences, I said, going up the Cliff face
12:17
are crystal clear. I like.
12:19
You know Doctor Who all the way through.
12:22
I mean, on the VHS era, that was certainly at the beginning.
12:26
It was literally grab whatever version you've got to hand and
12:29
whack it on a VHS. Which is why you get hissy,
12:32
crackly fuzzy shit black and white ones and like the Seeds of
12:36
Death where the quality jumps with each episode where they've
12:38
edited them together. Towards the end the restoration
12:41
team started getting involved as the DVD releases came in and the
12:44
VHS releases kind of improved a bit, but then with the DBDSI
12:49
mean the wealth of extra material you get on these things
12:51
and the extra material on the Blu-ray sets.
12:53
So much love and stuff has gone into these and it's great that
12:57
you get to go to things like the BFI and talk to the people who
13:00
work. On it as as Toby Haddock said to
13:04
me in the interview I did with him yesterday, the amount of
13:08
extra unpaid work that goes into those sets just because they
13:11
have such a love for the material, you know, is that
13:17
you'd be really surprised. You know, like, I mean, it's a
13:20
dream job for some people if you're a fan, yeah, But you can
13:24
sort of see how they go above and beyond.
13:25
Because I'll tell you what, some of the other shows that I watch,
13:28
the special the Star Trek sets, are lamentable in comparison.
13:32
Oh, the special features there are just like here's a little
13:35
interview we did with the cast and crew, and here's another
13:38
little interview we did on a slightly different subject with
13:40
the same. I think there's probably roughly
13:42
about an hour's worth of. Here's a special.
13:44
Features you don't even get that these days, it's.
13:47
On Picard, Strange New World is a short gag reel.
13:53
But yeah, I mean, I mean, I remember even when the
13:55
restoration team first came up and started doing the DVDs, it
13:58
was, it was known it wasn't. You know, they didn't brag about
14:01
it because you don't. But it was a sort of open secret
14:04
that they were working well below industry average pay to do
14:08
what they were doing for these releases because they just loved
14:11
the show and wanted to look the best it could on the media when
14:14
it got released. And these Blue Ray sets are
14:16
fantastic. Well, now we've given Chris
14:18
Chapman a good stroking and gotten in a few more sales.
14:22
I don't think they need to know. They sell out.
14:24
I think these, yeah. Now.
14:25
Now we've said all that, what are the chances of us getting a
14:28
complimentary copy of the next Blue Ray set?
14:31
In fact, you know what? Whatever the next many lovely
14:34
things said about you in that interview yesterday as well, you
14:36
know I'm doing more marketing for you than your own bloody
14:39
team. Should we watch episode six of
14:42
the Sea Devils? Why not?
14:44
Thrilling. Episode 6 on Blu-ray Countdown 9
14:48
Box set. You do the countdown.
14:50
Counting down in 4545 in 321 go. Oh no.
15:02
We've been talking so long of a play button.
15:03
Stop working. Oh, there we go.
15:05
Go now, folks. Go now.
15:06
I don't think any fucker watches these alongside the the
15:09
episodes, you know, I don't know.
15:11
Just listen to them. I wouldn't have thought.
15:12
I certainly don't, primarily because one of the main places
15:15
that people listen to podcasts, of course, is when they're
15:17
commuting. Yeah, yeah.
15:20
So yeah, I listen to a lot of podcasts while I'm in my.
15:22
Know. Do you not think that it gives
15:24
it a bit of really listenability because if one day you did
15:26
decide, oh do you know what, I am going to watch them alongside
15:29
the episodes. It's a whole different
15:31
experience and. I think in the next round of
15:33
media releases, I think we'll just get people's podcasts on as
15:37
commentary options. There we go.
15:39
Oh, BBC. I'm here if you want me Okay.
15:42
Yeah. I get the creme de la creme of
15:45
the podcast talent on Hands with Blood, Pen Knife.
15:47
Yeah. We'll we'll quite happily be on
15:49
these on these releases. They did do a fan commentary on
15:53
one story. It was a time time monster, one
15:56
of the episodes. Oh, right.
15:57
OK. And Joe Lister's on there.
15:58
There's one with Rob Scheerman on The Monster of Peloton as
16:02
well. Oh.
16:04
Dear He's giving him a massage that he's taken.
16:07
Out of you. And then there he is.
16:08
The doctor is unconscious at their feet.
16:11
Why would massaging his shoulders render him
16:14
unconscious? Who knows, Maybe the Sea Devils
16:17
have a sting in their hand. One of those sea devils.
16:21
Their head's been put on sort of too high, so it looks in a
16:24
permanent state of shock. I do find the sea devils kind of
16:30
They lumber a bit strangely in some cases.
16:33
You try putting on that costume and see if you can walk in a
16:36
straight line. Often they do very well,
16:40
actually. Do you know what?
16:42
I swear to God, that photograph I had in the window, you know,
16:45
in Captain Hart's office, it looks like they they matched it,
16:48
actually. Matched it to the to the
16:50
scenery. They even had one shot where
16:53
there was a a moving radar dish on there between between the
16:57
window and the back cloth. You just had the all the six
17:01
seagulls, sea seagulls, Sea Devils outside that building
17:05
there and then we cut to a shot where there was three in the
17:08
corridor. It just feels like the numbers,
17:10
that there's a lot there. It's good.
17:12
It's a it's a good economic shorthand he's doing.
17:15
They're doing a good job of making it seem like there are an
17:17
awful lot of these things. Oh, there's a sequence.
17:20
And oh, I know what bit you're talking about.
17:24
Is it the bit where the Doctor sabotages the machine?
17:27
Yeah, it. Goes on forever, doesn't.
17:29
It it does, here is. I mean, this is another bit
17:33
where this happens a lot. The Master needs the Doctor's
17:36
help. Yeah.
17:38
Does he really, What, do you think he's going to actually
17:42
just help and not sabotage him at the first opportunity, I
17:45
mean. The strangest one is in Colony
17:47
of Space when he offers him a share of the universe.
17:50
I love that scene. You're paranoid.
17:53
Who isn't? We're definitely going to do
17:55
that one, you know. I do like this.
17:59
With Walker going, Are you sure we shouldn't be doing this?
18:01
You know, that's just, that's just me.
18:04
Oh. Dear I can sense the mucky
18:06
fingers of Terrance sticks. You know they're about to carpet
18:09
ventilation shaft. Yes.
18:12
I don't know why, I said mucky. I'm so sorry.
18:16
There's nothing mucky about terrorist Dicks.
18:21
Oh, he he. There is no sausagely in this
18:23
characterization now. So though is there.
18:25
No, not at. All, I mean, it hasn't been
18:28
throughout, but it was played this sort of being played for
18:31
comedy now, isn't it? It is now.
18:33
Yeah, there could be the most dreadful reprisals, you know.
18:41
See, I like this because Captain Hart has gone from being a very
18:44
stubborn man. He's now absolutely the ally of
18:49
the Doctor isn't. He now he's in the situation,
18:51
Yeah, he's. My hero, My problem is this.
18:57
You know, you did a little bit better to me in technical
18:59
Academy in Gallifrey, so you just fiddle with these wires
19:03
please. Why does he need the doctor's
19:06
help to build the trigger mechanism?
19:10
It's he's he's constructing a sonar of vice device, analogous
19:15
to a laser. Yes.
19:18
See, that's just a load of words together there where I just go,
19:22
OK, so you're the sort of person that knows when it's nonsense.
19:28
Yeah. Have you ever made a laser,
19:30
Jason? I haven't made a laser, no.
19:37
I have used lasers, but I haven't made one.
19:40
Of course, we all know the main use for lasers is as a cat toy.
19:46
Well, quiet. And Nala loves it.
19:49
She goes absolutely as soon as she hears me take.
19:51
I've got a laser pen in the pen pot in my living room, and as
19:54
soon as she hears me go there, she's like, she knows what's
19:58
coming and she will go does. She know it's a laser, or does
20:01
she think it's a creature? Honestly cannot tell, but she
20:04
gets very. Confused.
20:06
My old cats are always kind of mental.
20:08
She try and get to the ceiling. Is she good?
20:10
She she goes running. Are you really going to ask that
20:14
child to risk her life? This is something that crops up
20:17
in Doctor Who a lot. They keep referring to
20:19
companions as children, and they're clearly not children.
20:23
Joe is a young woman, she's not a child.
20:26
I think the worst example is is Black Orchid.
20:30
When they talk about Mr. Lemonade, the children lemonade.
20:33
For the children, they're not bloody.
20:35
Children. Well the The thing is is in the
20:37
previous story they let her have quite a mature almost
20:42
relationship with King Peredon, so they certainly weren't riding
20:45
her as a child there unless something very dodgy is going
20:48
on. She's definitely big enough for
20:50
Captain Hart to crawl. Here we go.
20:59
I just loved like go with me for a second.
21:02
You see all this sort of creeping around she's doing in
21:05
this very sort of industrial looking place.
21:07
I used to love finding places like this in Crawley, where I
21:10
lived, You know, industrial estates and things, and crawling
21:12
around pretending I was in a Doctor Who's story.
21:15
Fair enough. We did.
21:17
You used to. Play Doctor Who.
21:19
I did. No, not really.
21:21
Oh. What did you do when you was a
21:22
child then? Played various other games, but
21:27
Doctor Who wasn't one of them. I used to love it.
21:30
But yeah, no, it's the ventilation shaft escape is a
21:35
classic, but yeah. Why is all that equipment?
21:42
Oh, it's a store. Sorry.
21:43
I was gonna say, why is it all in shrink wrap?
21:44
But it's Yeah. Oh, I need a polarizing
21:50
condenser. Oh, allow me, Doctor.
21:52
Oh, thank you. That's handy, he goes right the
21:54
way. And just did long enough to let
21:56
Joe and the doctor have a chat. Yeah, well, we have done this a
21:59
few Times Now through the window, haven't we?
22:05
I'm going to create a diversion. See.
22:07
Sometimes, like earlier, there's a sort of silent sequence
22:11
between them in the window. He has huge respect for her, you
22:15
know, and trusts her. And other times he's like, you
22:18
know, Joe, do you think you can do this without mucking it up?
22:21
You know, I just want to know just one time to say, oh,
22:25
Doctor, fuck off. You wouldn't have it now, would
22:32
you? Oh, I don't know though,
22:34
Capaldi, I did love that bit, you know.
22:37
You remember in under the lake where he had the cards.
22:41
I'm so sorry for the loss of your.
22:44
Friend, relative, pet. I love the fact that they built
22:49
this thing and it just plugs into a three pin socket.
22:52
I wonder what Mary White asked for this one.
22:56
I don't think she would have had too many objections.
22:58
Wouldn't. Have thought so.
22:59
Here's a little test. Oh yeah.
23:04
It's a familiar sound effect. What is it?
23:09
It's the IT starts off the same as the Cerebatron Mentor and the
23:12
invasion. It's that.
23:16
And here we go. You are a true.
23:17
Fan Jason I. Should have started a timer,
23:20
because here's the diversion. The Sea Devils are all thrashing
23:23
around. Joe releases Captain Hart,
23:26
Walker is useless and ends up locked back in the room.
23:29
Why is he doing that sort of Hitler salute?
23:31
Because all he has to do is run putt.
23:33
No, I'm just going to. Lock him in the room.
23:35
Niveling Nazi. Here they are again, still
23:39
staggering around. Joe and Captain Hart run away.
23:43
They find, they find a man, they grab his gun.
23:46
Yeah. Oh, you're right.
23:48
Joe can drive a hovercraft that's handy.
23:50
Oh, oh, come on though, in terms of production.
23:52
But look at that thing. Oh yeah, that is one sexy craft.
23:57
Shoot down some Sea Devils with a machine gun.
23:59
Yeah, Or rifle. Actually, they are.
24:01
It was a rifle. Boarding the hovercraft.
24:07
You don't think someone would turn off that machine by this
24:09
point? You would have thought so, yeah.
24:13
Sea Devils doing incredible flips.
24:15
Yep. Just so Stuart Falcon on his
24:18
feet getting. Shot off goes off, so they've
24:21
got a hovercraft now as well. Oh.
24:23
Come on, that is sexy AF. Sure is.
24:29
Off they go in the hovercraft. Do you know?
24:31
While this sound is still going on.
24:33
Did you ever hear the story Kate Manning tell us about being
24:35
inside that hovercraft of all the sailors?
24:37
No. And it buffeted.
24:39
And she ended up, you know, in basically in the lap, some,
24:41
about 15 of them. And she said they did not object
24:45
one bit. I can imagine they did.
24:48
And it turns out, through all of that, the master's just been
24:51
standing there going, oh. And the Doctor goes, oh, I'm so
24:53
sorry. Oh, that sea devil looks so sad.
24:56
I must have had the frequency too high.
24:58
Whoa, he's just been in a lot of pain.
24:59
But oh, for God's sake. Oh yeah.
25:03
I'll just switch those things around.
25:05
There we go. It's a bit like the holly gag in
25:07
Red Dwarf. Do you remember?
25:08
Is it the blue cable? No, it's the red one.
25:10
Joins up with the white cable. Bang.
25:13
Or is it the yellow? Cable.
25:14
Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think you.
25:17
Should have been the yellow one. Oh, again, that's a great
25:21
photographic blow up outside. What's on?
25:25
So well done to the set designer.
25:29
Well, you said teething troubles.
25:30
Why would a sight the C devil understand the concept of
25:32
teething? They don't have teeth, No, you
25:35
should say. What on earth are you talking
25:37
about? That's handy.
25:47
The game is not over yet, he. Might he won him kill you
25:50
useful? He might be useful because he
25:52
built this machine. I haven't got the faintest
25:54
bloody idea how it works. My Oh yeah.
25:56
So my grandma actually had massive hair.
25:58
Yeah, like proper volume in her. That machine looks just like her
26:02
old hair dryer. They did.
26:06
They did cannibalizing. Ah, this is fabulous.
26:09
Now. So they've gone off in the
26:10
hovercraft to go and get a load of Navy personnel and out they
26:14
pour now with their weapons and Captain Hogg gets to fire that
26:18
enormous gun, doesn't he that? Yeah, he gets into the Here they
26:22
come. I think Michael Bryant says on
26:29
the commentary that they weren't actually supposed to fire that
26:32
thing. Yeah, but they just went for it.
26:36
Better to ask forgiveness and all that.
26:38
Look at this. So we don't get this many unit
26:41
soldiers normally. No, these are actual naval
26:44
personnel from the because this is an actual naval.
26:50
This location is actual as operational naval base at the
26:52
time. In in terms of Doctor Who, this
26:56
is big budget stuff. Yeah.
26:58
Lots of people. It's a great location.
27:00
There's hardware on the screen, there's loads of extras.
27:03
None of this comes cheap. No.
27:06
Oh, look at this. There's a sea devil at the top.
27:08
Do we think he might be about to do a stunt full?
27:10
Yeah, it's Stewart Fell and he doesn't flip.
27:15
That mask looks grey there. Yeah.
27:19
There's that one who looks shocked all the time.
27:24
One of them looks kind of casual, like he's just popping
27:27
out to the shops. Fuck me.
27:31
It's a massacre. It is, and we've suddenly gone
27:33
to the BBC stock sound effects of bullet ricochets and makes it
27:37
sound a bit weird. But Brian is lingering on the
27:40
corpses. He is trying to show that this
27:43
is murder. I know it's supposed to be an
27:45
entertaining sequence, but you're right.
27:49
Look in the studio. They're very green.
27:51
Yeah, not quite sure when we've got a close up of the sea,
27:57
Devil's Groin there when he got shot, but you know.
28:00
Oh, I imagine getting shot in the groin.
28:02
Oh, yeah, look at that look. It's the volume factor 2.
28:12
Oh, no. Why would you leave the Master?
28:17
Come on, Doctor. You know he's got a vast array
28:19
of rubber masks, hypnotism skills.
28:23
And he's a violent bugger too. Doesn't he smack him now?
28:27
He does. Again, this is like the
28:29
hypnotism doesn't it just gives him the opportunity to.
28:33
Do wowzers. Yep, here's Captain Hart in the
28:37
big. Gun this.
28:38
Oh man, Have you ever seen a bigger gun than that?
28:46
Oh my God, it's right at my face.
28:48
Jesus, Joe, why have I got off right in the camera?
28:56
Here we go. Because we've already murdered
28:58
loads of Sea Devils. Obviously this is just the same
29:01
costumes they're using, but they're the same actors.
29:04
It just feels like they're not. Numbers are vast.
29:07
Yeah, they do. You do feel like there's an
29:09
awful lot of them. I want you to be fair.
29:15
I think. Pennant Roberts.
29:17
I don't say many nice things about his direction than
29:19
Warriors and The Deep, but he does make it feel as if there's
29:22
a lot of Silers and Sea Devils in that.
29:24
Yeah, he does. They just sort of don't move
29:29
very fast and. No, that's the.
29:32
I mean, there's it's not just about the speed of things
29:35
moving, is it? Because there is something, if
29:38
you do it right, there's something scary about an
29:40
implacable foe slowly advancing. The mummies in Paris.
29:44
Mars. You can run away, but they just
29:47
keep coming, whereas in morays of the deep it's just like why
29:51
are they just being so slow? Here we are on a bit of
29:54
gadgetry. He's in his element.
29:57
Roger Delgado's terrified because he hated the water.
30:00
He. Was wetting his pants?
30:01
Yes, because he was not good with water.
30:03
And the rest of the Sea Devils are like, fuck this, I'm off and
30:06
they're back in the water to. The.
30:08
Sea. I can imagine they're very,
30:12
very, very angry now. Yeah, I believe we get sequences
30:19
just like this in Planet of the Spiders.
30:21
With the Doctor and Lupton, Yeah.
30:26
Which, almost like this one, turns out to be a nice bit of
30:30
padding to show off some Oh, that's not Roger Delgado.
30:34
He's deliberately not trying not to look in the camera.
30:38
Yeah, definitely not in the. And the trouble with that is,
30:40
obviously this is expensive. They can't do this again.
30:42
So yeah, they're doing the best. Perry looks great though.
30:45
He's having enormous. Absolutely.
30:48
He's soaking wet and the I love the camera here in the the
30:53
sorry, the sunlight here in the camera as well.
30:56
Oh, it looks gorgeous. It's fantastic.
31:00
It's proper. It's seriously dynamic.
31:02
I think this episode. Oh dear, more Sea Devils and
31:13
their bizarre capsule. We're going under Ash.
31:18
Are they all going to get in there?
31:19
Well, I want to. Sea devils don't need to just
31:21
swim down here. We go.
31:23
Here's Walker. You know, he's right.
31:25
Yeah. Nuclear nuclear weapons.
31:26
You know, as Astonishing is in Legend of the Sea Devils, where
31:30
they clearly had a bit of money and they do underwater sequences
31:34
with the TARDIS. Why the hell didn't they have
31:37
sequences of the CGI Sea Devils under the water?
31:43
Who knows? I was absolutely convinced that
31:47
Monster was going to be the Merca, you know?
31:50
I think many people were thinking that might be OK, just
31:53
this opportunity to see the. Merca series of disappointments,
31:55
That one, I'm afraid. So now that's it.
32:02
All negotiations are over. Yeah, but This is why I think
32:05
this episode is a bit of an anti climax.
32:07
Because you just had that massive battle sequence, and
32:11
then we quietly go back to the Sea Devil's Base and flip a
32:15
switch and wait for things to blow up, basically.
32:18
Yeah. Well, thank God.
32:19
I think at this point most of the tension has gone.
32:22
Jason, I think that might be Peak Buffon from Perk We there.
32:25
Did you see that? Yeah.
32:29
And this one just sort of looks like he's got long hair, this
32:31
sea devil, Bryant says. He thought as they went along
32:38
they were getting the masks better and better, so they
32:41
weren't making changes. And I think he's right,
32:43
actually. Yeah.
32:50
I too, like, I like how calm. The Doctor says I'm in it.
32:53
Oh no, I didn't. I'm going to blow up the base
32:56
you know and the and the masters like, but what we killed that's
33:01
right since the Doctor. Oh, look, now the Sea devil's
33:06
got what they want. They turn on the master Who saw
33:08
that coming. It's never happened before.
33:11
Do you think they're really differentiated between US and
33:13
you? Oh, all right.
33:15
Well, all right. OK.
33:16
Well, I think the Axons may have done as well.
33:18
You look lucky as when you've been there.
33:20
That sea devil. Did you see that?
33:24
Oh, here we go. We've got ships, we've got
33:25
submarines. Oh, I think this is one of the
33:30
most expensive episode looking episodes of Doctor Who.
33:32
It's. Still superb.
33:33
It's great. But you are right, in terms of
33:36
plotting, there is one conclusion this could possibly
33:40
have now that and no other, and that is the Silurians will all
33:44
be killed. The the Sea Devils will have to
33:46
be that. Was a slip.
33:48
Sorry. Oh, he reversed that.
33:50
Got a cheer at the BFI, didn't it?
33:51
Reversed the clarity of the neutron flow.
33:54
Same again at the five doctors when he said it.
33:57
I like the fact the Doctor is just casually willing to
34:00
sacrifice himself. Well, it's for the bet.
34:02
You know, For the greater good. Enjoy your revenge.
34:08
Let me out. Oh dear.
34:13
Do you know what? It's great when he's smart,
34:15
suave and in control. But it's also very funny,
34:18
usually when he's foiled. Yes, the one time.
34:23
The only time I don't think it works is when he's pleading for
34:26
his life at the end of the time. Monster.
34:30
It's a little bit overdone. Isn't it?
34:31
It feels very panto. Yeah.
34:34
I've seen pantos or less panto than that before us, but whoop,
34:41
I'd be killed. Why didn't the Master think the
34:44
Doctor was going to sabotage? He knows the Doctor can't
34:47
possibly get on board with this whole revive the Sea Devils and
34:50
everything else. But also, I think the Doctor
34:53
knows that if he boxes the Master into a corner, then that
34:58
he'll help him escape so they'll get away.
35:01
Yeah. Oh, there just happens to be
35:06
those floatation. They're useful.
35:20
I think there has to be an airlock somewhere.
35:22
Is it stock explosions again when the base goes up?
35:24
Yeah, it is. That's really good as well.
35:30
Oh, Jane. Blithe look.
35:31
She's bringing in some more food.
35:34
More food, more tea, smoked salmon sandwiches.
35:36
That's delicious twat, yeah. Joe has gone from being
35:46
remarkably competent to now sort of just sniveling and worrying
35:51
about the Doctor a lot. To be fair, though, at this
35:54
point there's not a lot she can do.
35:56
If this was a new series episode, she would be viral to
35:59
the climax. She'd have taken the hovercraft
36:01
out. Pageant.
36:03
Donna Noble. Come on, get this thing going.
36:07
There he is over there in the water.
36:10
Oh, apparently Roger Delgado was so anxious to do this.
36:14
I can imagine he was. I would be.
36:16
Don't. I don't do water.
36:18
Per WE says that he was the bravest man he ever met because
36:23
he he basically confronted his fears to for the show.
36:28
Yeah, well, Tom Baker was very similar.
36:30
He didn't like water at all, but he had to do things like the
36:32
deadly assassin cliffhanger or the the Android invasion where
36:37
he hides in a lake. He hates water as well, he
36:41
recounts. Bronchitis that, didn't he?
36:42
He. Did, yeah, He swallowed some.
36:44
River water Never, never advised.
36:47
Oh gosh, this all looks great. It does.
36:52
Well, you're right, given. Usually I have to make a lot of
36:54
excuses when I'm watching Classic Ho for why things look
36:57
really terrible. No, I think in this one that's
37:00
not that's not necessary really. The only possible let down I
37:06
suppose is that their cell is just a.
37:09
Black box. Oh dear, look.
37:11
Given everything else though, what that we've talked about,
37:14
the location work, the sets. Yeah.
37:19
Oh dear. Oh, so then, Now the master
37:24
feigns a heart attack. He's always up to no good.
37:27
Always here. We go.
37:35
It's a different moral position though, isn't it?
37:39
In the Silurians, he's livid and says that's murder.
37:43
Now he's the one murdering. Now he's the Yeah, now I have.
37:46
How do you feel about that? I mean, this is basically what
37:51
Trout did every other week. Yeah, I I am quite happy with
37:59
the solution because the way it was presented, the Sea Devils
38:04
have made it clear it's basically they're more humanity.
38:07
So throw them up. Yeah, they're back on the
38:14
hovercraft again. I think the big difference
38:16
between the silo. They're not a use at this.
38:18
Hovercraft aren't. They the silo is, well they
38:19
should. It looks great.
38:21
The silo is and the Sea Devils is.
38:22
I feel like during the silo is there's the suggestion that a
38:28
piece can be brokered in this. I don't think we ever feel like
38:33
that's a possibility. No, And I mean the argument in
38:37
the Silurians, of course, is that he's tricked them into
38:39
going back into hibernation, so they're not an immediate threat
38:42
anymore. Effectively we are waiting 6
38:45
episodes just to see all the Sea Devils killed.
38:47
Yes. Yeah, unfortunately we do like a
38:50
massacre and Doctor Who. We do, especially when it's all
38:53
the aliens. Oh, the where was the Where was
38:57
the master keeping that rubber mask?
38:59
You don't want to know the same place I kept those Maltesers.
39:06
Oh, the the master escapes to fight.
39:08
Another day. Farewell, my friends.
39:10
Farewell forever, Oh, he goes. I must look at the final shot of
39:17
Hertway, though. Yeah.
39:18
I'll get you, you fucker. Oh, I really enjoyed that last
39:25
episode. Yeah, I I completely see where
39:29
you're coming from. It's a foregone conclusion with
39:33
a double climax. Yeah, we have the great big
39:35
climactic battle on the beach and then the Doctor gets
39:38
captured anyway. And in fact, there are a a
39:42
number of Doctor Who stories that have that double climax
39:45
where the second one is worse than the first one.
39:48
Time Lash is a particularly terrible example.
39:51
Finishes with 15 minutes to go. So they have to write another
39:54
step, another ending to it. I mean the the main the issue
39:58
with that climax, I suppose, is that we're supposed to think
40:02
that Walker is terrible because he suggested a nuclear strike,
40:09
but the end result of the Doctor's actions is essentially
40:11
the same, except not with a nuclear bomb.
40:13
Yeah. It's like, well, nuclear bomb to
40:17
blow them up because that's the most powerful explosive we have.
40:21
The Doctor blew up their system from the inside.
40:23
Same result. And you know, Walker's going.
40:27
I was right all along. And essentially the Doctor's
40:29
going. Actually, yeah, why not?
40:32
The only way they get away with it is because they tie it up
40:35
with all that action. Well, we have talked for I think
40:41
about 3 1/2 hours now about the Sea Devils, so congratulations
40:46
on that. But now we have to have our
40:49
three recommends, and I haven't even thought about mine.
40:53
While we're going through this, I'm going to do this.
40:54
I'm going to. Provide this or shall I start?
40:57
Go for it. OK, then I'm going to talk about
40:59
Michael Bryant. And I know going to the
41:02
director's an obvious choice, but this is such a step up from
41:04
Colony in space, which I think where you can see a fresh
41:10
director excited at the possibilities but perhaps
41:15
lacking the knowledge to pull off things as smoothly as he
41:19
could. Here.
41:22
He's on a lot surer for seeing he's got cooperation from the
41:25
Navy, so he's got all this hard, but he's on the water, which he
41:28
loves. I think he's developed a rapport
41:32
with Pertwee and Manning and Delgado, so he's working with
41:35
the actors brilliantly. It looks gorgeous.
41:39
So Michael Lee Bryant's direction is my #1.
41:42
Yeah, I think my number one is kind of is similar to that, but
41:45
it's what we were saying, what you were saying right back in
41:47
episode one. This is one of the most
41:50
consistent and polished productions in Doctor Who,
41:54
certainly in this era, probably in the whole series, where
41:58
visually the studio footage, the sets, the location footage, the
42:04
stock footage all work together. There's no tension in it where
42:09
they've clearly put in a bit of stock footage to represent
42:12
something that doesn't actually match, like a Saturn 5 rocket
42:15
launch, which doesn't look anything like the model that we
42:16
saw earlier or something like that.
42:19
This looks so consistent. I mean, the sets inside the
42:22
Fort, you could almost believe they were on location in the the
42:25
way they were put together, just the attention to detail that's
42:28
gone into the set design and the way they're shot in this story.
42:33
I think visually it's one of the most consistent and well
42:35
polished of the Purwi stories and I don't think there's any
42:39
parts in it really that look cheap.
42:43
No, this is what I would never have been, you know, ashamed to
42:47
put on if a non fan was around. And trust me, there was a lot of
42:51
stories where I was ashamed. But if a non fan around, I think
42:55
an obvious choice would be Roger Delgado.
43:00
I'm going to go with a less obvious choice.
43:02
And that's John Purway because I think Roger Delgado gets some of
43:06
his best material on this. Actually.
43:07
John Purway's really strong in this the the moral indignation,
43:12
the the fierce anger at points that he can be utterly
43:17
condescending. He can take the piss out of
43:20
himself, the bit where the radio explodes.
43:23
He's a man of action, you know, He takes to the water.
43:26
He's he can do a sword fight. I said the word magnetic
43:31
earlier, And he is. This is partly at his absolute
43:34
height. He's in his comfort zone.
43:36
He's loving it. I'm loving him.
43:39
That's my second one. I think my second one would be
43:42
all the supporting characters because they are so well done.
43:48
Trenchard is a marvellous character and I love the fact.
43:52
As I said before, he's not under the master's control.
43:56
He's been manipulated to go along with the Master.
43:59
He believes he's doing the right thing.
44:01
He's not being forced to do something against his will.
44:05
Captain Hart is a superb standing for the Brigadier.
44:08
Like we said, if this was a UNIT story, it would have been over
44:12
in two episodes because they'd have said, oh, there's some more
44:15
of those reptiles and the Brigadier would have gone right,
44:16
blow the buggers up. It's like the time down, isn't
44:19
it? You know, there's a there's a
44:21
relaxedness to it that's not here.
44:24
Yeah, So here we're back to the Doctor having to convince the
44:29
authority figures that to go along with what he's saying.
44:31
And he spends a long time doing this.
44:32
It's not until like, Episode 4 where Captain Hart finally goes,
44:36
all right, Doctor, what do you want us to do?
44:38
We'll we'll do it. And then he gets he's on side.
44:42
We get that over and over again, are we?
44:43
I'm sorry, Doctor. I can't seem to keep repeating
44:45
myself, but I do not believe it. Yes, I.
44:48
Victor. Mildred.
44:49
Throughout the whole thing, where you've got Trenchard and
44:52
Captain Hart and Walker, the Doctor is constantly up against
44:56
people antagonists to what he wants to do and achieve not, you
45:01
know, the Master is almost incidental to the whole thing.
45:04
Every step. People are against him, and not
45:07
always for bad or malicious reasons.
45:10
Captain Hart is just in a situation he's never been in.
45:13
He doesn't know what else to do. He doesn't necessarily believe
45:17
the story. And you know, why would you?
45:19
This guy you've never met walks into your base unannounced.
45:24
He's only allowed to stay because he's from UNIT and
45:26
they've officially, you know, recognize that he actually has
45:30
clearance to be in this place. But he walks up and just talks
45:34
about Sea Devils. Captain Hart doesn't see a Sea
45:36
Devil until episode the end of episode 5.
45:38
It's Hart walks into Mark's shop and said there was a load of
45:41
lizards attacking the mall. I'd go, oh, bless you, you know.
45:45
So I think all the supporting characters in this story are
45:48
really well written and well presented, even down to the some
45:51
of the the crew only have like 2 lines in the submarine or
45:54
whatever. I think the supporting
45:56
characters are all there and you can believe in them.
46:00
They're not just ciphers to cover a cover requirement of a
46:04
storytelling point. I for my last one then I'm going
46:08
to go for a often unsung part of the production, but we have
46:14
talked about it throughout and that is special sound.
46:17
So the sound design on this I think is really great.
46:21
Sea Devil voices, the sound effects in the submarine when
46:25
you're down there really feels like they're underwater.
46:30
Simple things like the very cool alarm that we heard.
46:34
I just think that the special sound on Doctor Who can.
46:38
They don't need to hear because they've got the money, they've
46:39
got the action. But a lot of the time they can
46:43
create the atmosphere that the budget cannot, can't afford to
46:47
do here. It just marries with great
46:51
visuals to create, you know, a very immersive story to watch.
46:56
So yeah, Dick Mills, it's getting my vote.
46:59
Yeah, definitely. I think my last one, I mean, I
47:03
could go on about the Sea Devils for ages.
47:05
You know, I could cheat and say watch the Sea Devils because I
47:09
really love watching at the BFI with Katie Manning and everybody
47:12
else. And it was a fantastic
47:13
experience. But I'm going to say, well, the
47:15
last thing I'm going to say about it is it's probably the
47:17
most down to earth and grounded Doctor Who story.
47:22
Even in the purple era. There's no.
47:24
TARDIS or anything is there. The TARDIS isn't even is
47:27
mentioned briefly at the beginning and the the Doctor
47:29
asked where the Masters TARDIS is.
47:31
That's the only mention of the TARDIS.
47:33
Anywhere we're not in, we're not in the Home Counties, we're not
47:44
in the middle of London, we're not dealing with the made-up
47:47
military paramilitary force of unit.
47:49
We actually have the Royal Navy, which is a real thing, and it
47:52
makes this whole situation seem so much more grounded in
47:57
reality. So I think it's probably the
47:59
most contemporary down to earth that Doctor Who has ever been,
48:08
because we don't have all these extra trappings of familiar
48:12
faces and everything else. It's that this is.
48:15
The Royal Navy. And yet, weird enough, I didn't
48:17
think about any of those trappings while watching this.
48:20
No, it doesn't slap you in the face going, look, we're doing
48:23
something different. It's just like here we are and
48:26
it gets on with it. As you say, it's a really
48:27
polished and confident production.
48:29
It just goes right into. It you watch an 80s story and
48:33
you're guaranteed on the whole an interior TARDIS scene,
48:38
mentions of regeneration of the Time Lords and all of this
48:41
stuff, you know what? You don't get nigh, do you?
48:44
It's it's doing its own thing. Yeah, it is absolutely doing its
48:48
own thing. There's no time.
48:50
There's no wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff.
48:53
I think I said right at the beginning, quintessential per
48:56
we, maybe I should have just said essential.
48:59
Essential per we. I think everyone should watch
49:02
the Sea Devils. It's a brilliant story.
49:04
Wow. Other opinions are available,
49:07
but they are wrong. They are wrong.
49:09
Yes, but they are available. That was that.
49:13
But thank you very much for having me here to watch this
49:16
with you. It's been brilliant actually,
49:17
being in the same. Lovely, washing it live.
49:19
To watch it live. I have to say, though, that it
49:22
still remains only my second favorite viewing of the Sea
49:25
Devils, because, you know, you can't top the BF.
49:27
Oh no, no, no, I won't. I wouldn't even.
49:30
I mean, honestly, just the two of us compared to that entire
49:32
cinema of people laughing the Reds off with.
49:35
John Pert We saying reverse the clarity Neutron.
49:37
Flow all the interviews in between as well the inside
49:40
behind the scenes but when they showed that trailer of the two
49:43
little girls finding there. Yeah.
49:46
The sea devil wigs in the caves. Yeah, that was a really nice the
49:49
the trailers that they put on these Blu-ray sets are getting
49:52
better and better. They actually build them as
49:54
episodes now. And I mean the the Tegan 1
49:57
deserves to be it was 1015 minutes long.
49:59
Superb. Yeah, it's very.
50:00
Well, absolutely superb. Well, look, Jason, where?
50:04
Are you and I are heading next? I think we may be going back in
50:09
time in terms of production forward in time in terms of
50:11
setting we might be going to the planet Exarius.
50:15
Ah, that planet. Exarius.
50:17
I'll tell you what, let's go and record it and not Clay Pit.
50:20
Is it still there? No, I think it's been all, it's
50:23
all grown over now doing something.
50:25
Shame. Fucking ugly planet, isn't it?
50:29
Yeah, which is kind of the point.
50:30
Poor that poor fellow who has to get in that play in episode six.
50:36
He gets very mucky it. Looks a lot of fun.
50:39
I don't think there's some good action in that, though.
50:41
There's a lot of gun play going on.
50:43
There's a lot to talk about in that story.
50:45
And I think I might read the book again, you know, just
50:47
beforehand, just so we can talk about that, so.
50:50
Yes, we did that in the book club, didn't we?
50:52
We did the Doomsday machine. Absolutely riveted to watch Joe
50:56
Grant's very first Doctor Who adventure.
50:59
Yes.