Latest / GowayPro Travel Tales / Colombia Beyond the Landmarks: A Journey Through Culture, Gastronomy & History

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Colombia Beyond the Landmarks: A Journey Through Culture, Gastronomy & History · GowayPro Travel Tales

• 0:00
  Hey there everyone, I'm Don, Professor Goway, and welcome to the GoWay Pro Travel Tale Podcast.
• 0:13
  Travel far and travel often.
• 0:18
  Hello everyone, welcome to the Go A Pro Travel Tales Podcast.
• 0:22
  Today we are coming literally from Columbia.
• 0:25
  Um and our two guests are Brendan Raymond, who is our um Brendan, what's your title with uh with with Columbia fifty seven?
• 0:35
  So it's it's right here, sorry.
• 0:36
  My apologies.
• 0:37
  Yeah.
• 0:40
  Not direct, I have CEO, but put it this way.
• 0:43
  Brendan's the the man.
• 0:44
  He's he's the man in charge at Columba fifty seven.
• 0:48
  And we were just talking off air.
• 0:49
  No, he's not in a Colombian prison.
• 0:51
  It may look that way, but he's actually in one of his meeting rooms in his offices in which city are you in, Brendan?
• 0:59
  Medellin.
• 0:59
  Okay, there we go.
• 1:00
  So obviously Colombia.
• 1:02
  And we also have with us, um excuse me, Juan Sebastian Sanchez Chica, who is from Pro Colombia.
• 1:09
  Um and he obviously represents Colombia and he is Colombian by birth.
• 1:14
  And Juan, where are you coming to us from?
• 1:17
  I'm based here in Toronto actually.
• 1:18
  Yeah.
• 1:19
  You're in Toronto.
• 1:20
  okay.
• 1:20
  I stand corrected then.
• 1:21
  We have one of us coming from Colombia because I'm in Toronto as well.
• 1:24
  Well, I should have had you come into the into the studio with us.
• 1:26
  That would have been much better.
• 1:27
  Um so we have two true experts on the country of Colombia, which is what we're talking about today.
• 1:37
  However, we we want to take a different tact, so to speak, um, and not necessarily talk about the usual suspects, though we will touch on them because it is of interest.
• 1:48
  Um
• 1:49
  Most people I think initially, boys correct me if I'm wrong, when they think of Colombia, the first two cities would be Cartagen Bogota, and then secondary cities would would be
• 1:58
  Medellin and Cali.
• 2:00
  Is that a fair summary of what people automatically think of when they think of Colombia?
• 2:06
  You go, Brenda.
• 2:08
  Um yeah.
• 2:10
  yes, I think that's absolutely correct.
• 2:12
  Yeah, people Cartagena, definitely, um and Bogota.
• 2:16
  Um yeah, you're right.
• 2:19
  Um in the terms of cities, yes, and then Cali and Medijin.
• 2:23
  Yeah.
• 2:24
  Yeah, and as we'll discuss, there is a lot more out there than those big cities.
• 2:28
  And something I like to like highlight too, particularly to a lot of our agents out there who deal with cruisers, a lot of people will sell cruisers which will call in to
• 2:38
  Cartagena.
• 2:39
  Um those big vessels with dis will disgorge all their clients.
• 2:42
  They'll spend a day, maybe a day and a half in Cartagena and then be gone and then clients will think that they've seen Colombia and that's very, very far.
• 2:52
  From the truth, and we will dig a bit deeper into the other areas of Colombia today.
• 2:58
  And one of the cornerstones, I think, of it, um, which will lead to other subcategories, so to speak, is the cultural mix that Colombia has to offer.
• 3:08
  Now, as I sort of summarised here with Columbia, the big cities, Cartagena, etc., uh, the immediate thoughts.
• 3:14
  When people think culture for South America, their immediate thoughts, um, from my expertise and experience would be
• 3:20
  They think of the Andean countries, which is Ecuador, Peru, and Bolivia, and that is a lot to do with the Incan um history that's down there, very famous Incan history, of course,
• 3:29
  Machu Picchu, and then the very noticeable cultural uh not immersion, cultural properties.
• 3:39
  It's not the right word, but I'll use that properties of those countries with you have a lot of the indigenous population very, very noticeable everywhere.
• 3:47
  Colombia is less noticeable, but no less
• 3:50
  immersive and diverse in its cultural mix.
• 3:55
  So, um let's go to Juan on this one.
• 3:58
  Juan, there are three general makeups.
• 4:00
  I did my little research before we came on air.
• 4:03
  Do you want to touch on the cultural diversity of Colombia in general terms?
• 4:07
  Sure, thank you, Don.
• 4:09
  So Colombia's cultural identity is is actually unique because it's it's not one story, it's it's many stories layered on on top of each other.
• 4:18
  You know, the three big threats come together when when we talk about the cultural diversity of Colombia.
• 4:24
  So we we have from from the from the first, as you were mentioned, the like three ancestral roots.
• 4:29
  So Colombian culture is born from the encounter between indigenous civilizations such as I don't know, like the Muiscas and and Tayronas.
• 4:37
  uh European primarily Spanish colonizers and African people brought through the transatlantic slave trade that happens between those years.
• 4:45
  So what makes this different from other Latin American countries is not that just that these three routes, but how distinctly each one survived and shaped different regions.
• 4:57
  So you you can travel across Colombia and feel like you're moving between different cultural roles.
• 5:03
  From our geography
• 5:05
  um and as a cultural engine actually of this diversity, Colombia spans six natural regions.
• 5:11
  So as you were mentioning, we have obviously part of that Indian, we have Caribbean, and actually Colombia is one of the few countries, and no not the few, actually is the only
• 5:19
  country in South America that has access to the two oceans, the Pacific and the Caribbean, which will be like the Atlantic.
• 5:25
  uh We have the Amazon, we have the Orinoco region, we have the Western Andes, and and all of all of this diversity, each one isolated
• 5:34
  Enough to develop its own rhythms, dialects, cuisine, music, and worldview.
• 5:39
  So the Caribbean coast feels nothing like the Andean interior, the Pacific Coast feels nothing like the Amazon.
• 5:44
  That geographic diversity acts as a preserver of distinct cultural expressions rather than you know like a blender.
• 5:54
  And finally, and no less important, living, breathing diversity, when we talk about that diversity as well.
• 6:00
  Colombia is home to over 100 indigenous peoples and 65 lost living languages, alongside with African Colombian communities that have preserved deep African roots.
• 6:10
  So, for example, we have destinations such as San Basilio de Palenque, that was the first free African town in the Americas, still speaks its own Creole language, that is called
• 6:20
  Palenquero, and was declared a UNESCO masterpiece of the oral and intangible heritage of humanity.
• 6:26
  The rights of people of San Andres and Providencia, for example.
• 6:29
  Bring an English Caribbean Protestant identity that is completely distinct from the rest of the country.
• 6:35
  So this isn't historical diversity behind glass.
• 6:37
  It's alive and you can still go in there, which which operates obviously as Goway and Columbia 57 to to make this happen.
• 6:45
  So what makes Colombia cultural identity so unique is that it's not a melting pot that dissolves like its ingredients.
• 6:53
  It's a mosaic where each piece kept its color and together they formed something.
• 6:58
  That exists nowhere else in Latin America.
• 7:00
  So this fusion is officially recognized globally, uh and that's why we, for example, have a lot of uh UNESCO World Heritage sites uh around nine, if I if I'm not wrong, uh and
• 7:10
  intangible also cultural heritage traditions.
• 7:14
  Yeah, and that's the interesting thing as an outsider, um, I can't call Brendan an outsider 'cause he's lived in Colombia for many years now, so he's well, he is a Colombian
• 7:22
  officially as well.
• 7:24
  but from the outside, as I mentioned, the cultural uh identity, and that's the perfect word, that's the word I was looking for.
• 7:30
  So thank you for that one.
• 7:32
  The cultural identity of the Andean countries is very, very noticeable in the dress and the features of the indigenous population.
• 7:39
  In my opinion, as an outsider, it's not as noticeable up front as
• 7:44
  in Colombia, but as you've just explained, Juan, it is it's interwoven throughout all of Colombian um society and culture as well.
• 7:52
  And it's interesting too, because again on my little stats here, I think it's about roughly four percent are indigenous um grouped under a term um Amerindian.
• 8:02
  Is that the right pronunciation, guys?
• 8:03
  Amerindian?
• 8:06
  Not a term, Amarin, yeah and I I I've heard it.
• 8:09
  it's not a term we use here though.
• 8:12
  No, no, no, no, no.
• 8:13
  Yeah, I was going to ask you that because it's sort of it's used like if you do a search on cultural makeup in Colombia, that term is used, but it was mentioned once or twice that
• 8:21
  it's not a it's not a term that is in common use.
• 8:23
  So I I apologize for that.
• 8:25
  But that was the term that was used to group the many, many uh different cultures and uh identities within the indigenous population of Colombia.
• 8:35
  But it's only four percent.
• 8:36
  I think it's about ten percent is Afro Colombian and the balance is European, so basically white, Spanish.
• 8:43
  about eighty five percent.
• 8:44
  But again, with that small percentage, it still permeates very, very richly incumbent.
• 8:50
  If not visually initially, it's definitely there.
• 8:53
  So Brendan
• 8:54
  I may, sorry, just uh there's also the added ingredient of many immigrants from the Middle East, from Germany, uh and also from Asia.
• 9:06
  Um and that's particularly noticeable sometimes in the looks of people in Buenaventura or in Cali.
• 9:14
  and so that all adds to this mix, and I mean people got together and and that mix I always say is a as a foreigner, not born in Colombia.
• 9:23
  If you cut a Colombian in half, in many you will find um you will find blood from all of those uh from the indigenous background, from the European and from the African
• 9:34
  descendants.
• 9:35
  Um you know, it it it's um a a very interesting cocktail.
• 9:39
  Um
• 9:40
  Yeah, for sure.
• 9:41
  Is that other is that other European influ other European influence outside of Spain and then the Asian um immigration, is that somewhat recent in like modern times or does that
• 9:53
  go back to, you know, colonial or just after colonial times?
• 9:57
  Well Ger Germans came uh I think like they came to the rest of South America in in sort of like the eighteenth, nineteenth century and again after the Second World War.
• 10:06
  Um but you have interesting Greek uh communities as well, um around Colombia or or you know, roots in Greece, Italy.
• 10:16
  Uh next to Santa Marta, there's a a town Sienega and it has beautiful Italian um architecture um from Italian immigration in into Colombia.
• 10:25
  but that was more recent.
• 10:27
  And it continues today.
• 10:28
  I'm one of a new wave and there are many young Europeans and North Americans, Canadians as well, who are settling in Colombia and getting married and having kids.
• 10:39
  And you know, it the story continues.
• 10:41
  It's very open to that.
• 10:44
  Right.
• 10:44
  I I I I think I think Don for example i even uh I I could be the the perfect example.
• 10:50
  If you look at me I look more than Arabic than I'm Colombia.
• 10:52
  Yeah.
• 10:53
  Every time I walk around here in Toronto people think I'm I'm from I don't know, like Palestine or or I don't know, Turkey or something like that.
• 11:00
  I I it's because in the Caribbean we have a lot of migration back in the fifty, if I if I'm wrong from from uh from Palestine, from Syria, from Turkey, from other countries that
• 11:10
  came to Colombia and they established her.
• 11:13
  And actually nowadays it's part of the culture.
• 11:15
  So if you if you watch, for example, the gastronomy from uh Cordova, which is one of the regions that we have at the north side of the country, it's it's pure Arabic fruit.
• 11:24
  So you see Kibel, Lapne, all these preparations that are that is part and is blended with the culture from there.
• 11:30
  So it's it's kind of funny because it's you see people like eating that type of food and say, like, but this is not Columbia, what what is what is going on here?
• 11:37
  But it's actually part of our culture.
• 11:38
  So n so I remember my grandmother, because we we have kind of
• 11:42
  like a background in terms of that torquey side.
• 11:45
  So so part of of our grandgrandmother, they they they used to cook that and if you go to their towns, there's a place that is called for example, Cienega de Oro where where you
• 11:56
  find a lot of this Arabic food.
• 11:57
  And you can still go that and and you know and taste it.
• 12:00
  And it's prepared by Colombians.
• 12:02
  So it's it's kind of weird.
• 12:04
  That's it's amazing.
• 12:05
  This is what I love about doing this particular part of my job of speaking to people like yourselves about their respective countries or someone like Brendan who's now immersed
• 12:13
  himself literally in um a well what would have been a new culture now it is who he is or part of who he is, is that like you can still learn something new every single time.
• 12:22
  And while I knew Colombia was diverse in its cultural makeup, I didn't know it was quite as diverse as you two are presenting today with such a strong European
• 12:32
  influence because you know my ignorance would suggest it was Spanish from the colonial days and of course African and um slave trade I knew brought uh the black community into
• 12:42
  many parts of South America.
• 12:44
  Um but I didn't know of the you know that diverse mix of Germans, um Italians, Turkish, etc, Arabic influence.
• 12:53
  And it's my my question, this might be more to Kwan, but Brendan, you're someone who's moved to Colombia
• 12:59
  I know growing up in Australia that a lot of my friends, their parents, they left Europe and this I'm talking mainly the Greeks, Italians, that type of thing.
• 13:07
  Left us left their countries after World War Two 'cause Europe was completely devastated.
• 13:13
  And generally speaking, there were sort of three main destinations and countries like Australia and Canada were looking for new immigrants.
• 13:21
  They wanted those people to come in to, you know, vitalize the economies.
• 13:25
  So there was cheap boat fares.
• 13:27
  To come to Australia, Canada or the US.
• 13:30
  What do you think was or is the attraction for someone, say from Europe or the Middle East, to choose Columbia as a as a new home?
• 13:39
  Let me throw that at Brendan because you're because you're someone who did that.
• 13:43
  Yeah, and I know many other people that have done so as well.
• 13:46
  I think it is uh because it's a non xenophobic society, because of all of this cultural mix, you have a country that is incredibly open to foreigners.
• 13:56
  and a lot of cura curiosity and real interest.
• 14:00
  uh but it is also a country of opportunity, um and it's absolutely beautiful.
• 14:07
  Um and one of the reasons that people
• 14:11
  enjoy coming here on vacation and I think the primary thing they take away with them is is the the the people.
• 14:18
  The warmth, um, the humour um and and the diversity of the people is amazing and being very open and warm i is nice, especially when you look around the world today and it isn't
• 14:31
  um the same story in many countries where you go to and and you feel that you can become part of that society.
• 14:38
  and I I feel here in Colombia that is a feeling.
• 14:41
  There's an energy here.
• 14:42
  There's a vibe.
• 14:44
  Um, you know, this diversity creates this amazing motor, very industrious um people.
• 14:50
  And I think many people think, Wow, I can, you know, I can I can do business here.
• 14:55
  I can I can make a living but I can also fall in love and and and have a great quality of life.
• 15:02
  so that's for me, you know, um
• 15:06
  Well some of the reasons and one may on the historical side, well one's the history teacher.
• 15:14
  Yeah, yeah.
• 15:15
  so again from memory, I think you passed on your story of origin, so to speak, one of our other podcasts.
• 15:21
  Uh you traveled to Columbia originally and that's where you fell in love with it, and then one thing led to another, um, falling in love literally with the Colombian and then the
• 15:29
  business and everything else.
• 15:30
  So your I love your
• 15:32
  Yeah.
• 15:32
  I mean I couldn't believe arriving in Bogota and seeing a mountain going up the middle of the city.
• 15:36
  I was like, wow, this is just incredible Um you know, and that I that yeah, it was the geography and the people.
• 15:44
  Okay then, so let's get into the cultural aspect of it.
• 15:47
  Juan gave a really good in-depth answer with regards to the diversity and the many identities of the indigenous populations.
• 15:55
  So do you need to leave the big cities we mentioned as we introduced the podcast?
• 16:00
  Cartagena, Bogota Media, and Kali, do you need to leave those cities to get that cultural exposure and/or immersion, or is the cultural experience in the more
• 16:14
  remote or less travelled areas.
• 16:16
  Let me throw that one at one.
• 16:21
  Sure.
• 16:21
  So though I actually I always love to say that and and and Brendan could could second me on this, that Colombia is is as diverse that you will feel like you're traveling into six
• 16:32
  different countries when you when you compare it into regions.
• 16:35
  And that's something that is really marked.
• 16:37
  So when when you go to Caribbean, for example, in destinations such as Cartagena, definitely is Cartagena is one of those cities that you you have to know for sure.
• 16:44
  Yeah.
• 16:44
  If you if you if you start if it's your first time in Colombia, I think it's is one of the those destinations for for first timers.
• 16:51
  You know, you go to Colombia, you get to Nocartagena, it's cool, you can spend a couple of nights on days and and it would be great.
• 16:56
  But it but but if you want to to really get in uh a a deeper immersion, a deeper immersion to culture and and deeper immersion to something more authentic and so on, you have plenty
• 17:04
  of destinations back in the South, in the Eastern and the Western, because as I'm telling you, is as diverse as you might imagine.
• 17:11
  It's it's one different to other.
• 17:13
  Even cuisine, the culture, the music, the way we speak Spanish is is so weird because we you go to Bogota the the way they
• 17:20
  they pronounce it the the the words the the way they speak.
• 17:24
  Uh in Carvaja as you see, I speak very, very fast.
• 17:28
  So that's that's all the things that are very marked into each of the regions.
• 17:32
  If you go to Medellin they will be feeling like they're speaking kind of like Argentinian com more or less because it's like they they they they may with a a double L.
• 17:41
  The double L for example they they pronounce as as as a as a Y.
• 17:45
  So it's it's it's it's it's it's kind of it's kind of weird.
• 17:48
  And every each of the destination, every each of the regions, it will you will find that.
• 17:53
  So I I think over here the the the question will be like, where would be the best place that you could feel that cultural diversity or immersion?
• 18:01
  It will be more into what are the things that you're really as as a traveler looking for in terms to accomplish by yourself.
• 18:09
  Like what what is the things that really matters to you?
• 18:11
  What is the things that really you want to experience?
• 18:13
  And and on top of that, you will have different options to make that happen.
• 18:18
  if you think about uh as as you were saying before, Andean.
• 18:22
  Obviously, for example, if you see uh the east of the country, that is kind of the southeast, more or less, that is kind of near to to Brazil and the other part that is near
• 18:31
  to Ecuador, those areas are actually very alike to Ecuador and to Brazil, kind of.
• 18:36
  Because if you like, for example, Pasto, let's say, and people in Pasto, they speak very, very alike to people in Ecuador because they are obviously border and so on.
• 18:44
  And and and and and you and you can feel that
• 18:47
  That as as as with with our you know you know like with our uh countries that are near to us, Venezuela, Brazil, uh Ecuador, and so on.
• 18:55
  But there's something about Colombia that is kind of different from other countries because we have this biodiversity that makes us also change our cultural diversity.
• 19:05
  So it's it's kind of immersed both.
• 19:07
  The geography with the biodiversity with the biodiversity make us be the way we are as well.
• 19:13
  Because if you analyze, for example,
• 19:15
  country that has the six altitudinal zones.
• 19:18
  So you have plenty of weathers.
• 19:19
  We don't have seasons.
• 19:20
  Colombia doesn't have seasons as other countries in South America, for example.
• 19:24
  But we do have six altitudinal zones.
• 19:26
  So that makes us be different somehow because of the weather.
• 19:29
  People in Bogota is a little bit colder, you can say, because they they have you know it's it's a cold city kind of I mean cold for them, no no no sc not not Canadian cold.
• 19:38
  And Cartagena is very hot and the humidity is very high.
• 19:41
  So people is more relaxed, people is more, you know, outgoing and so on.
• 19:44
  So that make us be the way we are as well.
• 19:47
  So it depends as I'm telling you, the the the things that you're looking for.
• 19:50
  But definitely Cartagena and Medellin and Botas you were saying is just the tip of the iceberg of the variety of destinations that you can find in Colombia.
• 20:00
  So Brendan, on the cultural side of things, um there are many I I guess subtopics or subheadings that you can experience from a cultural point of view, anywhere in the world,
• 20:12
  not just Columbia of course, but you know, things like uh you know, cuisine, um their respective histories within the the broader history of what is the modern day country,
• 20:23
  music, art, local community, immersion and interaction.
• 20:29
  So can you give us some uh examples of what people could request, look for, or may not know about with a trip to Colombia.
• 20:39
  And before you want to that, let's just work on the assumption that someone's gone in and you know, let's say it's their second trip.
• 20:44
  So they've done Cartagena, Bogota, Medincali, all the above.
• 20:47
  Um, and they're now looking for that deeper experience into Colombia.
• 20:53
  Based on a cultural interaction immersion, what
• 20:56
  do you recommend what is out there in Columbia that you that you and Stroke Go way can offer to the traveller?
• 21:02
  Well, there is a huge amount and a huge variety to reflect what Juan was saying.
• 21:07
  However, it's funny Ju mentioned Cordoba because um when I was going through the notes uh for this and and thinking about this subject, there's a a town a colonial town called
• 21:20
  Lorica.
• 21:23
  and th it is amazing in the sense that the architecture
• 21:29
  is is you can be in the town in the middle of the town.
• 21:31
  It feels like you might be in a small town in Syria, um or or or in Turkey.
• 21:36
  Um and it's certainly alongside this incredibly beautiful river called the River Zenu, um which is rich in bird life.
• 21:46
  But the the people in Lorga ha Lorika have their roots from from mo many of them from um the Middle East and that is reflected in the food.
• 21:55
  There are restaurants where you can eat all the food that Juan was talking about.
• 21:59
  And then allied with that, very close to them, the one of Colombia's most um interesting indigenous cultures is Zenu.
• 22:07
  And that is an indigenous culture which uh is famous for using irrigation at a time when irrigation wasn't really used it to the the to that level of sophistication, even even in
• 22:19
  Europe.
• 22:20
  And um they are now today famous for making the Colombian sombrero, the Wetiao.
• 22:26
  And it's lovely to be able to go there and see how they still handmake this um sombrero from uh Kanya Fletcher, from like a arrowroot cane.
• 22:36
  And um then on top of that you have this huge overdose of nature and and can go to a nature reserve such as Sanguare, which has been completely recovered from the uh sort of
• 22:52
  cattle, it was used for cattle grazing.
• 22:54
  For many, many years and was nearly dead, and they have r regenerated this place into the most amazing uh natural reserve.
• 23:03
  And it's only two hours away from Cartagena.
• 23:05
  And and you can travel through that area and and end up in Medellin as well.
• 23:11
  uh It's a short flight from Monteria, the capital of Córdoba, which is also home to some of Colombia's most important writers and artists.
• 23:24
  particularly Larica.
• 23:25
  There must be something in the water in Larica, but um it has produced an interesting array of um authors, artists um that we have you know included um in our experiences in
• 23:38
  that area.
• 23:39
  It's so that's an example.
• 23:41
  But you can in Santa Marta as well, you can the oldest colonial city in the continent of South America and
• 23:51
  you c next to the highest coastal mountain range in the world where there are different indigenous communities.
• 23:58
  You also have of course the Europeans may uh that that was the base for European entry, Spanish entry into Colombia was Santa Marta.
• 24:06
  And so yeah mixing that with the the the interior of the country, um in and around Boya Bo Bogotá um it it's yeah I mean you can it's very easy to introdu to mix a lot of
• 24:21
  the cultures and experiences in one itinerary as long as you have time.
• 24:27
  Um compared to Canada, Colombia is not huge, but as a European, Colombia to me is vast.
• 24:36
  And you know, you do need um quite a long time.
• 24:41
  But coming back on a second trip, you could really go off base a little bit more and and and and see uh the
• 24:50
  areas like Barricharo in Santander as well, um and Cali, for example, is a big city but it's not um often on the on the tourist map, um for Canadians in particular.
• 25:02
  Okay, so I'm gonna come back to a few questions on logistics if someone wants to build an itinerary solely on this um cultural side of things or combine it with a more sort of
• 25:13
  traditional trip.
• 25:14
  But I wanna ask Juan a question as the official government representative.
• 25:18
  uh just bear with me as I sort of explain this question.
• 25:23
  So when I was a tour guy down in lat in South America particularly, um we did a couple of community uh overnight stays.
• 25:32
  Which from my understanding, well I I saw it change while I was there.
• 25:36
  from my understanding it's got again, not the right choice word, worse, in that the one in question was uh Lake Titicaga staying with a family on the islands, uh Amantani and Takea
• 25:48
  Island.
• 25:49
  And we when we did it, that product had just been launched, that opportunity had just been granted by the local community and it was fantastic 'cause it put money into the local
• 25:59
  community.
• 26:00
  Um
• 26:01
  It gave foreigners a chance to experience traditional life on one of the islands in Lake Titicaca.
• 26:06
  Over the years, unfortunately, it sort of got perverted in that the locals are starting to fight over who got who.
• 26:14
  You know, obviously money was being made.
• 26:16
  So this experience got, I don't want to say spoiled, but it lost its organic vibe to it.
• 26:24
  I've seen that happen in a few other spots around South America.
• 26:27
  Um I was doing a podcast the other day.
• 26:31
  we're talking about uh talking about Botswana and the government there purposely keeps prices high because they don't want to encourage or they want to con control as much as
• 26:41
  possible mass tourism.
• 26:43
  Um so Juan, all these cultural opportunities that a traveler will have, I I would assume the government is very, very conscious of not overexposing these communities and like
• 26:56
  doing more harm than good in the in the long run.
• 26:58
  So
• 27:00
  That's part of my question.
• 27:01
  Um, is that a conscious thought of the government and people or and Brendan for that matter, not to e overexpose, exploit whatever term you want to use, that experience.
• 27:11
  Because a lot of people these days are looking to get away from the big normal sites and do something different and definitely something more immersive, something more culturally.
• 27:19
  So again, let's throw that one first at Kwan from the official point of view, then maybe Brendan from the practical point of view.
• 27:27
  Okay.
• 27:28
  So um I'm gonna start from the promotion side and then we're gonna talk about the development because promotion is is what what we do at the end as for Colombia and and and
• 27:38
  as the agency in charge of that.
• 27:40
  So I I think one of the best way to doesn't make that happen is actually the things that we are doing in our strategy of promotion here in Canada.
• 27:48
  So the way we are promoting Colombia here for Canadian is is not as a mass extrusion at all.
• 27:52
  if you analyze uh for example the type of tourism that we used to have in the eighties, in the nineties, that was one of the worst times that we have ever had in Colombia.
• 28:00
  But Canadians were travelling to to to Colombia, to Cartagena to make a lot of cruise ships and and s and a lot of that.
• 28:06
  So I remember Cartagena was well known here in Canada and even Colombia was no well known here in Canada as an all inclusive destination because of the Cameroon and all these
• 28:14
  brands and all these things.
• 28:16
  And it was it was good because it it was a way to to to to to understand the the tourism from Colombia about that time.
• 28:21
  And it was part of the trends of that time, you know.
• 28:24
  Like we you you know, you have a big, big time of of of cold season here.
• 28:29
  So yeah, let's escape this, let's go to beaches and let's just relax there, take some sun and just be there in a in a in a certain sun destination, right?
• 28:38
  But nowadays uh that that have changed so much.
• 28:40
  So now for example, the trends that we are seeing in the Canadians that are traveling to Colombia are more deep into the cultural interchange that they are looking for in
• 28:48
  Colombia.
• 28:48
  So that said, make us uh
• 28:51
  uh be more responsible into the destinations and into the offer that we are promoting here in in Canada.
• 28:58
  So we don't we are not focusing this into massive destinations, into all inclusive, into all those things.
• 29:04
  It's not that we don't have that because actually tourism if if tourism makes something, it's tourism is open to everybody.
• 29:11
  So everybody can make tourism and that's something about the tourism industry.
• 29:14
  But talking about Colombia as a destination and and the way we are trying to attract in Canadians to Colombia is more into
• 29:21
  Come visit Colombia but get to know in a in a very slow pace, in a very slow tourism, where you can have the opportunity to really get into, as you were saying before, to be in
• 29:30
  in the in the in the house of a family uh member where you can interchange with this host member and get to know really the destinations rather than taking pictures of yourself
• 29:40
  into Esacker Mobile uh destinations or something like that.
• 29:44
  So that's the way we're trying to promote the destination here.
• 29:46
  That's one thing.
• 29:47
  The other thing is like we uh
• 29:49
  are one of the few countries in South America that has a sustainability policy in tourism.
• 29:53
  So that makes all these companies such as Columbia fifty seven and some others in Colombia kind of is it's not an obligation, but it's kind of forced them to to somehow to work on
• 30:03
  top of sustainability.
• 30:05
  Not as a as a something that is trendy or not as a something that is like cool or fun.
• 30:11
  It's is is a must.
• 30:12
  Right now sustainability is not something that we're looking at as something that is gonna give us
• 30:17
  More likes or something like that is is is just the the baseline to really start uh a a very, very understand uh the tourism the way it has to be.
• 30:26
  So that's that's from the promotion side that what we do.
• 30:30
  So we don't promote, for example, DMCs or tour repairs in Canada that they don't have sustainability policies.
• 30:35
  We don't promote here companies that they don't really have responsibility of these things.
• 30:39
  We don't promote here companies that they are aiming into this massive destination.
• 30:42
  We just promote here those companies that really understand.
• 30:46
  that line of of strategy so that they can match with the clients of Canada because at the end that that's what they are looking for.
• 30:54
  So all really with nature and adventure, with community-based tourism, even luxury, but it's not like the normal luxury.
• 31:00
  Luxury will be more like a contemporary luxury because of the expenditure that it left that lives into the country, the impact that it lives, and so on.
• 31:07
  So that's one one way.
• 31:08
  From the competitive side, and we talk about product development in Colombia, major of main, main of the
• 31:15
  major like uh local DMOs in in in in Colombia, they are working on top of that.
• 31:20
  And the good thing about Colombia is like we don't work this by ourselves.
• 31:24
  It's it's not an imposition of the government doing things.
• 31:26
  It's actually uh a teamwork between two operators, between the academy, between the private sector, between you know all of them just adding what they they think it could be
• 31:36
  better.
• 31:36
  We have seen examples, for example, to give you one in Cartagena, let's say, where the private sector pushed the public sector
• 31:45
  to make something happen.
• 31:46
  Because sometimes the government, and I gotta be completely sincere with you, sometimes the government doesn't deliver what it it needs to be delivering.
• 31:52
  So sometimes the private sector also makes some push to make things happen.
• 31:56
  So for example, um I remember we wasn't talking about, I don't know, like the other artists in Cartagena besides the the old city.
• 32:05
  So now we can see some other experiences besides the c the old city in Cartagena to really get into Cartagena and to get it really to know the communities and so on.
• 32:13
  And
• 32:13
  For example, destinations such as Palenque that if you think about Palenque many years ago, there wasn't a the it wasn't in even in the map.
• 32:21
  When you see companies such as Amawa Waterways creating a river cross in in in Colombia and getting into those towns that wasn't a lot not on that what what was in in the the
• 32:32
  tourism in the tourism uh like offer, and now they are appear there and they and they are showcasing those destinations and they are showcasing in a way that is very respectful and
• 32:41
  is very inclusive somehow.
• 32:43
  So that's that's what I think that that that's it is is the way it has to be done.
• 32:47
  But as I'm telling you, it's not just a job of of Colombia as a government or or or Colombia as an entity, it's a it's a it's a job of a teamboard that everybody adds its
• 32:56
  own, you know, like role in terms of the of the whole change.
• 33:01
  Yeah, and then
• 33:02
  And sorry just to add to that, I think you know, the different indigenous communities control themselves as well.
• 33:09
  They're very aware, they don't want to have many of them are not interested.
• 33:14
  Um and and they don't want to receive uh tourist like visitors.
• 33:19
  Um but others do and others come round to the idea, but they usually set very strict cultural guidelines for companies like
• 33:31
  Columbia fifty seven, in order to work with them, you need to build relationships, you need to build their trust and promise them that you're not going to bring, you know,
• 33:40
  badness into their communities.
• 33:42
  Um and and respect their their way of doing things and their decision making at the end of the day, they have the final decision as to whether to receive people, continue to receive
• 33:52
  people.
• 33:52
  And many of them, for example, uh national parks, we have the Tarona National Park, it gets closed down.
• 33:59
  Um, you know, a few times a year for for natural regeneration.
• 34:03
  Why?
• 34:04
  Not from the governments saying it, it's from the local indigenous communities insisting um it's their territories, their cultural territory, their sacred lands, and they insist
• 34:14
  that it is closed down.
• 34:15
  So they have a lot of power um as well to make their own decisions, which is great.
• 34:21
  and they should have the final say.
• 34:24
  no, a hundred percent.
• 34:24
  And I sort of led that question with some negative experiences, but I also know of firsthand and through association some very positive experiences in Ecuador and Peru in
• 34:35
  particular, where local uh operators like Brendan and his company have gone in and spoken to the indigenous population and done it in partnership, empowered them.
• 34:46
  maintaining that they have control over their futures and their communities and everything else like that.
• 34:51
  So I just, you know, I just sort of use it in the extreme to sort of to phrase the question.
• 34:56
  And we're also here at Goway, we have refreshed our sustainability uh policies to bring them more in line with changing attitudes and the changing world.
• 35:04
  And um we're also seeing, and this is sort of I guess why Columbia's also pushing this angle of visiting the country that more and more people, as I mentioned earlier, I think
• 35:14
  both of you have
• 35:15
  some of your answers have touched on the people want to get away from the usual, or not get away from the usual, the of course first time visitors, as we discussed, will want to
• 35:24
  see the big cities and big sites of Colombia.
• 35:26
  But more and more people, even on a first time visit, want an element of their itinerary which will be away from the crowds, something different, something cultural, something
• 35:35
  immersive.
• 35:36
  And more and more people are looking for that on a first trip and only that type of experience.
• 35:41
  Or more commonly, particularly for countries like Colombia,
• 35:45
  on a second or even third visit.
• 35:47
  So that will segue into my question to you, Brendan.
• 35:49
  From a logistics point of view, now you sort of touched on how the indigenous communities are, uh, how you work in partnership with them.
• 35:56
  Some say no, not interested at all.
• 35:58
  Some say yes.
• 36:00
  From a logistics point of view, let's use an example of someone on a first visit, they're doing Cartagena Bogota and Medellin.
• 36:07
  But they they then want to add on, as I say, a cultural experience to get to them.
• 36:12
  Now I know
• 36:13
  I think Juan mentioned there or my Brendan did there was a indigenous community two hours out of Cartagena.
• 36:18
  Let's talk something distance wise a bit further.
• 36:20
  Is it difficult to get into these areas to have this experience?
• 36:24
  Like is it is it a schlep?
• 36:26
  Is it a trek?
• 36:27
  Is it a short flight?
• 36:28
  Is it a drive through the Andean Mountains, which do go into Colombia?
• 36:32
  Uh so Brendan, is it hard to add this on?
• 36:35
  Uh well Cartagena I think you're referring to Balenque, uh which is what one was mentioned.
• 36:43
  Yeah, that that's um the Afro descendant community, um including uh and and it is about an hour and a half um depending on traffic outside of Cartagena.
• 36:57
  and is becoming more requested and and it is some it is a feasible um
• 37:04
  option if people have a full day, you really need a full day.
• 37:06
  It's pretty phenomenal to go there, especially if you include a a a drumming um session.
• 37:13
  It is um quite out of this world.
• 37:16
  Uh Santa Marta along the coast is an easier destination and the Tirona to include as a day tour an indigenous community.
• 37:28
  so you can be staying in Santa Mato
• 37:30
  So sorry to interrupt you, isn't Tyrona more of a mainstream destination with the trek to the lost city and the beaches there?
• 37:37
  Or is it or has it expanded to offer a bit more sort of organic experience as well?
• 37:43
  no, it's always had this incredible variety of um experiences from coffee to nature to walking to indigenous cultures of which there are many.
• 37:53
  Um gastronomy, the the banana industry, um the actual history of the area, the European immigration.
• 38:00
  It's it's a fascinating destination actually, Santa Marta.
• 38:04
  And it is you can have all of those experiences, some of the smaller, more um talking of cruise lines, sort of ex expedition lines and
• 38:13
  They enjoy going to Santa Marta because in one day they can offer their guests a variety of very different experiences than for example they can in Cartagena.
• 38:24
  and um but close to Bogota as well, it is possible to be able to go and visit and see um the culture of of the Moiskas um and and and other indigenous communities in that area.
• 38:40
  Um
• 38:42
  So it it doesn't necessarily entail a flight, but it an additional flight.
• 38:47
  But if you really want to go into an area like Cordoba, then you'd need to add on a at least a couple of days.
• 38:53
  Um and it is very well positioned between Medellin and Cartagena, and can be done by road from Cartagena as well, but it's not um a sort of day experience.
• 39:04
  So you d you do need to have that extra time.
• 39:08
  if you really want to go and see some of the communities that are not on the itinerary where you're where you're already going.
• 39:14
  Okay, so in summary, for our travel partners out there to offer a a more immersive Colombian cultural experience, there are options days or short overnights out of the big
• 39:27
  cities, Cartagena, Bogota, so day trips or an overnight trip.
• 39:31
  Um and as you just mentioned, you can go into the heart of Colombia to do that.
• 39:36
  Now on the heart of Colombia, again that's my general terminology here, um in
• 39:42
  In Ecuador, you can fly into oh I've forgotten the the uh city's name, but it's a forty minute odd flight into the deep part of the the jungle in Peru up north, um out of Iquitos
• 39:55
  or out of Cusco, it's a flight, then you hook then you hook up with your boats to do your Amazon cruises.
• 40:01
  Is there an equivalent main highlight that you would that our travel partners can sort of get their head around?
• 40:09
  And it's an easy I don't know s easy s well, easy sell for someone to go into the interior of Colombia.
• 40:16
  Is there one city or experience that you would recommend that a agent could sort of fall back on?
• 40:23
  Um that's the thing about Colombia, uh to be honest with you, it doesn't have just that kind of one must seat if you like.
• 40:32
  No, it it has maybe Cartagena is probably the place that most people have heard of.
• 40:38
  And most itineraries tend to not necessarily second itineraries, but first trips do tend to include a visit to Cartagena.
• 40:48
  but
• 40:49
  I mean the the for me the musty is to be able to have a good variety.
• 40:52
  If I get if I rece if we receive a request and it's Bogota Medellin Cartagena, although you can base yourself in those places and travel outside, sometimes the question is, you
• 41:05
  know, is that too urban?
• 41:07
  Should you know Colombia nature.
• 41:10
  Nature is probably it's it persuades are the most biodiverse country in the world.
• 41:14
  That's one of the mussies.
• 41:16
  And to be able to, you know, combine
• 41:18
  Bogota with Los Llanos or with um the coffee region, uh Medellin, maybe Tirona and then Cartagena, you're having this incredible must see of Colombia, which is the diversity,
• 41:33
  both geographic and and cultural, as Juan was talking about, they're so interrelated, and urban and this immersiveness in in the in in the nature.
• 41:46
  Because the nature is overwhelming and it is everywhere, you know, and it is just so lush and green and tropical, but yet there are deserts and there are snow capped mountains and
• 41:56
  jungles like the Amazon.
• 41:58
  I mean you can fly into the Amazon from Bogota to Leticia and the Colombian Amazon is is less developed in terms of tourism than Peru and Brazil and Ecuador.
• 42:08
  And that's its attraction because it is less developed.
• 42:11
  It is more authentic and and virgin.
• 42:13
  And and I think Colombia because it
• 42:16
  develop tourism, international tourism later than those other countries, learned from those countries.
• 42:21
  The indigenous communities were able to see, dear, they've destroyed part of the forest to build this lodge.
• 42:27
  Well in Colombia we're going to do it a little bit differently.
• 42:30
  And if we have to do that, we're going to manage the lodge.
• 42:33
  And so I think that these are things that are possible.
• 42:38
  you know you can fly over into the plains in the east of Los Llanos where you have the Colombian sort of gaucho culture.
• 42:46
  But you know, the th it's just that that diversity, I think, is the must see of Columbia.
• 42:52
  If if I may add, John, something.
• 42:54
  Sorry, uh sorry to interrupt you.
• 42:55
  It's just you know, it i I I I like the question you made because it's actually, you know, I think the the feeling of remoteness, you know, the feeling of going to those of the
• 43:06
  beaten path destinations is what really makes Colombia truly unique.
• 43:10
  So if if you if you ask yes, s then you know the the deeper you want to to find experiences, the you know, the deeper you have to to go to to counter, you know.
• 43:21
  Obviously it's gonna be more difficult.
• 43:22
  And and and and it's kind of paradogical because you you you may say, like, okay, it's difficult to get, for example, to the Wainia region that is at the east of the country.
• 43:31
  That actually you can find one of the most preserved and the biggest indigenous uh diversity that we have.
• 43:37
  We have more than 20 indigenous communities actually, for example, in the Wainia sh in the Wainia area.
• 43:41
  And one of them is for example the Poinave.
• 43:43
  If you look at the Poinave and you can learn, for example, from their um, I don't know, the fishing, the traditional food, the medicinal plants.
• 43:50
  the the meats connected to the territory, how they are connected to these big stones that are called the cerros de Mavecure and how they are deep connected to that.
• 43:59
  To get there, definitely is is is a challenge, obviously.
• 44:02
  But it's it but it's not impossible.
• 44:04
  But at the same time it's part of the joke because you could say it if if is it okay as a government to really develop ways and and and roads and infrastructure to get there.
• 44:15
  Or is it better to really conserve it like that, to keep it like that?
• 44:20
  to really make them be a part of everything so that it doesn't become a massive as you were saying at the beginning.
• 44:27
  So it's always that paradoxical thing.
• 44:29
  And and there's a good thing as Brendan was saying before that communities are very, very strong.
• 44:33
  You know, in these indigenous communities are very strong.
• 44:35
  And they're very, very respectful.
• 44:38
  And actually the the the Colombian law and the Colombian constitution respect their own way of life.
• 44:44
  So they have their way their own way of life and nobody and nothing can get into that.
• 44:50
  To give you an example, Palenque, again, sorry for the for the next egg to to to break this back, but it's something really cool about Palenque that they don't have like, for
• 44:57
  example, police in Palenque.
• 44:58
  They have their own police.
• 45:00
  So yeah, sometimes obviously the police get to to the town and everything, but they have their own people that take care of their own.
• 45:06
  So that happens in other destinations, such as in other indigenous communities as well.
• 45:10
  So from my perspective, it's like, yes, definitely is it's kind of challenging to get to that.
• 45:15
  Definitely you can find some destination where you can really get access to those indigenous.
• 45:19
  Communities or those cultural immersive experiences that you can get.
• 45:22
  But the but the remoteness that the the feeling that you wanna get actually make part of the experience, as as Brenda was saying.
• 45:29
  To get to Leticia, to get a flight, it will be like an hour and a half if I'm not run to Leticia.
• 45:34
  And then you take two hours boat drive, sorry, boat boat ride in the Amazon River.
• 45:39
  So imagine this in a very fisherman boat just taking it to the Amazon River to get you to a national natural reserve called Ascalanoa.
• 45:47
  And then you get to Kalanoa, there's just one only echolage that ha that I think has like ten rooms.
• 45:53
  I don't know.
• 45:53
  I'm I'm not sure, Brendan, if correct me if I'm wrong, but it's very small.
• 45:56
  And this ecology, for example, is managed from of the the you know the owner is a photographer and the other one is is a is a writer, journalist, something like that.
• 46:04
  So the way they perceive, the way they understand that, the the way they have created, as Brendan was mentioning before, that relationship with the communities, that trust that
• 46:13
  they have been gaining with the time.
• 46:15
  is is is actually what makes this unique because you don't see other well developed as as as Brendan was saying, uh infrastructure, hotels or something like that.
• 46:24
  And we like the way it is somehow because it's the best way to really preserve and conserve that.
• 46:29
  And the other thing is like when you see all these communities that are opening to this tourism, is because they understood that, you know, just somehow a way to really get some,
• 46:40
  you know, benefits of this, you know, rather than seeing people
• 46:43
  passing by and taking me pictures or just taking me as as as an asset to just make them fun or something like that.
• 46:50
  So they just re realize that there's something that we can do here while we preserve our culture, while we develop develop our culture and when we get benefit of it, you know?
• 47:00
  That's yeah.
• 47:01
  Well like a hundred percent valid everything both of you said.
• 47:04
  what what I found interesting is when I initially asked the question to Brendan of what you know, what's the the one go to type thing, you basically didn't answer the well you
• 47:13
  did answer the question by saying there is no one go to because the diversity is the go to.
• 47:20
  And I find that interesting.
• 47:24
  I've
• 47:24
  Done Columbia quite in intensively, not as obviously any anywhere near the level you guys know it for obvious reasons.
• 47:31
  But when I was looking after Latin America here, what we always ran into with again the Andean countries, Ecuador and Peru in particular.
• 47:38
  Now don't get me wrong, I've traveled through both those countries almost every corner and they have their diversity as well.
• 47:44
  They have many, many other things.
• 47:45
  But they're a victim of their own marketing and their own success in that very few people look outside the Galapagos for Ecuador in any extent.
• 47:54
  any deep extent.
• 47:55
  And the same with Peru, uh with Machu Picchu.
• 47:57
  Um, and again, while they have the diversity, it's hard to get people away from those big sites.
• 48:04
  But it sounds like to me, Colombia, again, all countries have their diversity, but it really does sound like, from what you're both are telling me and are espousing, is that as
• 48:16
  you say, Brendan, it is the diversity of Colombia and from C to C.
• 48:22
  from you know Caribbean coast to the border with Ecuador and uh Brazil and Venezuela, there is so much to see and do.
• 48:30
  And it sounds like from what Juan is telling us as well, that it is very well controlled and thought out as it's being developed.
• 48:40
  So again that all all that all that you know basically rambling by me feeds back into if people are looking for something new and something different away from the usual
• 48:52
  Then Colombia most definitely has it on offer.
• 48:55
  Um that leads to my question though, uh, Brendan, of Kwan, just use an example of, you know, uh an hour and a half flight, then a fisherman's boat down to a lodge, eco-lodge
• 49:09
  with only ten rooms.
• 49:10
  When people are looking to go to these extremes or even not extremes from a distance point of view, what is the level of service and or facilities going to be like?
• 49:21
  Are they
• 49:22
  Should an agent be warning their clients that you're gonna be rustic when you do this type of thing, or you have a choice of five star to rustic?
• 49:29
  Yeah, is there a sort of general statement you can pass on to me, to our agents that they can in turn pass on to their clients?
• 49:37
  Yeah, I mean I think you definitely the further the more remote you go, you have to be prepared to understand, particularly in Colombia, that the accommodation is going to be
• 49:45
  more rustic.
• 49:47
  but that you know, that's the the balance against wanting to go to these areas and and find and and ex and explore them.
• 49:54
  I mean Calanoa is a great example.
• 49:56
  It actually is a very comfortable, quality, well built with authentic local materials in a sustainable way.
• 50:06
  One thing that a lot of people aren't aren't ready for is the noise at night from the jungle.
• 50:12
  Um it is a yeah.
• 50:14
  Other thing if you have a phobia of bugs or anything like that, don't go because even though they they don't get into the rooms they're battling against when you have the
• 50:22
  lights on, the nets and and stuff like that.
• 50:25
  So there are these challenges.
• 50:27
  I mean, um i going to the Amazon in the re in the wet season can be fun, you know, and you you have to walk over
• 50:33
  a bridge maybe of wooden planks to to cross some flooded gullies to get into to Kalanoa from the boat.
• 50:39
  You have yeah, you really do n you know, in many of these areas, if you're not going to sample these experiences such as I mentioned as a a a day visit from um Catherine or two
• 50:50
  day visit or or Santo Mato and really get immersed in these areas, then it's, you know, lots of insect repellent and and sun cream and good shoes and and a sense of adventure.
• 51:02
  And um great food.
• 51:04
  I mean generally I don't think I've ever been anywhere where I've been disappointed with the food.
• 51:08
  Um but maybe the beds are a bit hard and um you know the the the plumbing it's just cold water.
• 51:16
  Um so you have a it's lovely, a fresh cold water shower.
• 51:20
  But these are things that we would always, of course, make um anybody in Go way who is working on a a programme, a trip for clients who are interested in experience, we'd flag
• 51:31
  that.
• 51:31
  Right from the very beginning.
• 51:33
  Sure.
• 51:34
  Well I think that's right, going after you.
• 51:37
  No, and then they can, you know, finish off their stay with three nights in the very luxurious and beautiful four seasons in Cartagena.
• 51:44
  And that's the great thing of Colombia, you know, you have that whole um mixed match.
• 51:49
  And you were mentioning other countries, uh one just um something that sticks in my mind a lot.
• 51:56
  Many people who've travelled in Chile and and and and Ecuador and Peru and Bolivia, when they come to Colombia, they have fun.
• 52:05
  they in they get to interact more with the locals, with the Colombians.
• 52:10
  They laugh more.
• 52:11
  Um just on the transfer from the airport, you know, the driver has Colombians are huge characters.
• 52:17
  They're not shy of talking to people and and and foreigners and expressing their opinions and they have great conversations here.
• 52:24
  Um and I think that's one of the things the people, the charm and when you go to these remote areas, generally the people are very happy to see you.
• 52:34
  And you really do get to interact.
• 52:36
  You're not a tourist on the sidelines.
• 52:39
  You know the the children will want to come up and look at you and touch you and tease you and and make fun of you and and that makes that interaction that you cannot get in other
• 52:51
  countries, you know, so much more beautiful and valid and and and really makes the difference, a huge difference.
• 52:58
  Yeah, and I I must concur with that because from my time driving through uh South America, um, we were always made welcome everywhere we went.
• 53:07
  that's why I love Latin so much.
• 53:09
  It's friendly across the board.
• 53:11
  But yeah, there was a noticeable I don't want to say change or difference, but you did notice it when you hit Columbia.
• 53:16
  There was that jovial vibe about it.
• 53:18
  I was talking to someone the other day, actually one of our groups ladies was talking about how they had a we're talking about how diverse
• 53:25
  go way groups can work with people.
• 53:27
  And it was a DJ who wanted uh to take a group of followers into Colombia and our groups department had to hire all the DJ gear for this particular event in I can't remember where
• 53:39
  it was somewhere in Colombia.
• 53:40
  Um but I said that's really weird because my memories are driving around Columbia.
• 53:44
  As you'd enter a town, this is back in the day, sort of the you know, coming out of the troubles and the, you know, civil unrest with the uh FARC group and stuff like that.
• 53:54
  We had no issues even in those times.
• 53:56
  Um, as you'd come into town, there'd be a police check or an army check, and then as you drive into town down the main road, there was just music thumping and pumping every single
• 54:05
  town, almost twenty-four-seven, and just that vibe of enjoying life was was there and that was noticeable.
• 54:14
  And again, I often when I speak to people about my travels and talk about, you know, political issues and stuff like that, I have found
• 54:24
  Three of the sort of countries that have had, particularly in Columbia's uh position, had a a bad reputation were the most friendly.
• 54:32
  And my example, I'll make a quick, is when we used to overland, we'd at nights when we'd camp, we'd look we'd look for a bush camp.
• 54:38
  That is literally turning off the road and finding somewhere to set up tents.
• 54:42
  Driving through Columbia on the the Pan American Highway, particularly in the Andes, it's very difficult to turn off because it's farmland, like fenced off farmland for most of the
• 54:50
  things.
• 54:50
  We were running late.
• 54:52
  getting dark.
• 54:52
  I literally pulled into a farm, knocked on the door and said, Do you mind if we like camp in your front paddock?
• 54:58
  They said, Of course you can.
• 54:59
  Please come in.
• 55:00
  Uh and we set up camp.
• 55:02
  Then they offered uh for us to use their bathroom facilities and they made breakfast for us the next morning.
• 55:08
  So, you know, that was Columbia in the you know scary times, so to speak.
• 55:11
  And I often throw it around, just imagine if a a big truckload of Colombians or Latins showed up on your doorstep and asked to camp in your front yard, would you let them?
• 55:20
  Like, of course you wouldn't.
• 55:21
  Like and that was a perfect example of how friendly Colombia was and is.
• 55:28
  So yeah, I concur a hundred percent with that.
• 55:31
  just to sort of somewhat off topic, I guess.
• 55:34
  Um, this is really for my curiosity, um, your neighbor Venezuela, um, has there been any issue from a political point of view, like with um immigrants coming across?
• 55:45
  I know they were at one stage a being influx into Colombia, and two, um
• 55:50
  Just from a general point of view, seismic, because Columbia is in part of the Andes, it is seismic.
• 55:55
  Did you guys get any sort of aftershocks from the uh from the big earthquakes that hit down there recently?
• 56:02
  Let me ask why.
• 56:02
  Well I think that felt in Bogota, but we didn't feel anything in in Medellin.
• 56:10
  No, and I I've just answered interesting you asked that question on the refugees.
• 56:14
  a client of ours, an operator in Europe, was asking the very same question.
• 56:19
  And actually, um, because of the earthquakes there was a a worry that we might see uh a big rise in Venezuelans.
• 56:27
  It hasn't happened and in fact since um Maduro is no longer
• 56:32
  um in his seat of power in Caracas, um quite a lot of Venezuelans are beginning to go back.
• 56:39
  uh And yeah, and and and some go back temporarily when c divide between the two countries because they've been here a long time and they set up their businesses and they have a
• 56:49
  life here.
• 56:50
  um But it isn't the same as it was and and we don't have this draw of the border now bringing people up to the
• 56:59
  border with Panama so they can continue north.
• 57:02
  And that was not just Venezuelans, it was Haitians and Cubans and people from African countries.
• 57:07
  That has died.
• 57:09
  The refugee camps in Nicokli have closed and I mean they can't get across the border into the United States now.
• 57:16
  And they know it.
• 57:18
  So you know apparently it's so quiet you can hear the crickets chirping on the border in the United States.
• 57:25
  So
• 57:25
  The draw is not there.
• 57:26
  And in Medellin, for example, in the bus terminals, you would see quite frequently groups of foreigners heading on the buses to the north to get over into Panama.
• 57:37
  You don't see that anymore.
• 57:40
  It is it's a different it's a different it's a different world now, you know.
• 57:44
  yeah, it's interesting because, you know, a as Juan can attest to living in Canada, like the news you only get about Venezuela well news is always negative for the mo well, that's
• 57:53
  what news is supposed to port what's going on.
• 57:55
  But it was the negative thing at one stage of the immi of the proficiency immigrants, refugees back and forth across the border and stuff like that.
• 58:02
  So it's good to hear that things have again, it has no real impact on a traveller to our agents out there.
• 58:08
  I this is more of a curiosity question from my point of view, wondering how things had if they had changed and obviously
• 58:14
  Through Brendan's statement, they have changed.
• 58:16
  And it's good to see that people are heading back to their home country, Venezuela, because I know we're here to talk about Colombia.
• 58:22
  Venezuela is a stunning country in itself as well.
• 58:25
  So it's a shame it's been sort of ostracized, at least from a tourism point of view, over the last recent history.
• 58:34
  A wealth of information, and as we discussed at the beginning of the podcast, this is not about the big
• 58:38
  famous science.
• 58:39
  So I think as uh the guys are definitely made out.
• 58:43
  And I I like what Brendan said.
• 58:45
  I think the diversity is the go to for Columbia.
• 58:48
  It has so much so so much variance from every level from accommodation through to experiences, be it classical for want of a better term.
• 58:56
  Um something that's not often brought up.
• 58:59
  I know Bahn does 'cause it's his job.
• 59:01
  Yeah, you have the yeah the p
• 59:04
  Pacific as well as the Atlantic Stroke or Caribbean Stroke Atlantic Ocean.
• 59:09
  So you have the two oceans as well.
• 59:10
  Something that was sort of we touched on in a previous podcast, which was touched on very likely here.
• 59:14
  You can do a river cruise now with our Armour Waterways, which Goe can um help you with in Colombia, which this is how it's developing and expanding beyond the norm.
• 59:25
  So let me get to some logistical questions.
• 59:28
  Uh Juan.
• 59:28
  Um we
• 59:31
  To get to Colombia, the good thing about Colombia is it's the top of the continent or the South American continent, so it's closer than the Ecuadors and Peru.
• 59:38
  So that's always a positive.
• 59:39
  Um, I know connectivity is quite strong out of Canada.
• 59:43
  Can you speak to that as well as connectivity into Colombia and regionally um out of the US and Canada, please?
• 59:51
  Okay.
• 59:52
  So talking about Canada, that is actually the destinations that we oversee.
• 59:55
  We are connected with the three major airlines that are Transat, Air Canada.
• 59:59
  uh
• 1:00:19
  Bogota and Cartagena.
• 1:00:21
  good news for this year.
• 1:00:22
  We extended the flight that we normally used to have in the in the winter season.
• 1:00:27
  They extend it to the to the summer season.
• 1:00:30
  So we have that it flies right now to Cartagena from Toronto uh until October actually.
• 1:00:35
  Eric Canada is gonna increase its operation actually by October into four frequencies.
• 1:00:40
  And they're gonna add a dreamliner, which will make the the trouble more effective and actually, you know, uh a little bit shorter because of the
• 1:00:49
  because of the plane and and and and I guess a little bit more comfortable.
• 1:00:53
  So so yeah, things are happening when it comes to connectivity.
• 1:00:56
  Obviously it is still a challenge, not because of Colombia but because of the you know, the industry, the the the things that are happening in the industry right now with with
• 1:01:04
  the fuel prices and so on.
• 1:01:05
  Yeah.
• 1:01:06
  But fortunately we do have air connectivity direct air connectivity from Canada.
• 1:01:09
  If we talk about the in indirect, we we will talk about Copa Airlines obviously connecting through Panama City, for example.
• 1:01:16
  We could talk about Aero Mexico for example connecting to
• 1:01:19
  Mexico City and then Mexico City to other destinations in Colombia.
• 1:01:22
  We could ask we could add also, for example, Dominican Republic with AutoJet connecting through Santo Domingo and then Santo Domingo to other destinations in Colombia.
• 1:01:31
  And so on.
• 1:01:31
  I'm I'm not gonna mention US because I know for connections, US right now is not the thing.
• 1:01:35
  But mainly with these destinations you can connect interact.
• 1:01:39
  If we talk about US, US is actually the number one country when it comes to air connectivity to Colombia, and actually is the number one country when it comes to uh the
• 1:01:48
  majority of
• 1:01:48
  of international travels that we're receiving is is from US.
• 1:01:51
  US represents around 26 to 27% of the international travels that we have in Colombia.
• 1:01:57
  So because of that we have a lot of connectivity, you know, with the major hubs, let's say Atlanta, New York, Miami, you know, you can Chicago and so on.
• 1:02:05
  So there's there's a lot of connectivity.
• 1:02:07
  The connectivity with US is is bigger obviously than Canada.
• 1:02:10
  But the good thing as I'm telling you is yeah, you you can travel direct flies uh with no issues.
• 1:02:15
  And and it's actually quite affordable.
• 1:02:17
  I if you think about a flight, for example, sometimes from Toronto to Vancouver, it could be even more expensive if you travel from Toronto to Colombia.
• 1:02:25
  So it it's it's it's yeah, it's it's kind of like that sometimes thing happens.
• 1:02:30
  so that's a good thing about also Columbia.
• 1:02:32
  Um with your statistics for the US travelers, do you d do do you have a breakdown whether that's business or recreational?
• 1:02:40
  it's mainly like eighty five percent is leisure.
• 1:02:44
  The rest of it is yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:45
  The majority of the travelers we receive is leisure for sure.
• 1:02:48
  We do have a little bit of corporate incentive, you know, all the mice industry, but it is it's not the the biggest one.
• 1:02:54
  It's it's the majority of them is leisure for sure.
• 1:02:56
  Okay.
• 1:02:57
  So on that note for anyone out there who does groups and you know, mice travel, that type of thing, Colombia obviously in its main cities particularly is very well geared towards
• 1:03:05
  large groups of description.
• 1:03:07
  And I guess what's really important too, if you're dealing with groups out there, um, we didn't really get into it in detail, but it was mentioned a few times, you know, there's
• 1:03:15
  the art side of the cultural aspect of Colombia, there is the music side as well.
• 1:03:20
  So if you have groups out there who are music groups, art groups, um or cultural groups,
• 1:03:26
  One of the things I remember as a tour leaders we had a Canadian lady, coincidentally enough, who was with us in Bolivia and she had a group back home
• 1:03:35
  um they're into textiles and knitting.
• 1:03:38
  And she went crazy in Bolivia with all the um you know the the ponchos and the chulos, the hats and stuff like that.
• 1:03:45
  So I'm sure Colombia has e equivalent when it comes to textiles as well.
• 1:03:49
  In short, obviously Colombia is good for groups, be it on mass for business or a little bit more specific, um and particular if it's a a hobby or an interest.
• 1:04:00
  that they may have.
• 1:04:01
  Uh Brendan, we did sweeping um or you you answered in sweeping um statements about all the things you can do in Columbia, mention different cities and regions and ways of getting
• 1:04:13
  and out.
• 1:04:13
  Um is there anything new on the horizon that you'd like to mention to one GoA and in turn our partners out there that people should be aware of, be it mainstream or be it sort of
• 1:04:23
  more sort of remote and um unique?
• 1:04:30
  new w well, I mean not uh bit stuck on that question.
• 1:04:38
  Okay.
• 1:04:39
  Yeah.
• 1:04:41
  I mean there are new ho there are, you know, uh new hotels.
• 1:04:44
  Um I'm going to be in Caltagena this weekend and one of the reasons I'm going is to look at some um new boutique hotels in the centre.
• 1:04:51
  Um I mean I think in terms in terms of logistics, you know, that a lot of people here find flying within Colombia as well very, very convenient um and a pleasure compared to flying
• 1:05:04
  domestically in in in other countries.
• 1:05:07
  and that's also a very good thing.
• 1:05:09
  But sorry, what was your question?
• 1:05:11
  No, no, that was no, you s you you answered it for me actually.
• 1:05:14
  Um but one thing I like to point out again from first hand experience is
• 1:05:18
  Uh Colombia is again compared to Canada is not big, but it's you know it's a reasonably sized country.
• 1:05:25
  but what's key to it is the Andes run right up, or that's if not the middle, definitely to sort of the left hand side of as you look at a map.
• 1:05:32
  And having driven it, it's beautiful to drive around, but it's up and down the hills, up and down the Andes.
• 1:05:39
  So to Brendan's point of flying around, uh I think this is a pretty obvious answer, but let me ask it, Brendan.
• 1:05:44
  The best way to see
• 1:05:46
  multiple areas of Columbia, be it the sort of the highlights or be it the more remote stuff we've touched on today, would be flying to get to these different points, correct?
• 1:05:56
  That's correct, although there are some great overland journeys that can be done can be done even in a in a shorter itinerary, for example, coffee region to Medellin.
• 1:06:06
  Um absolutely stunning.
• 1:06:08
  The road is pretty much finished and it's brand new and it's really, really well done.
• 1:06:13
  Um also Cateena de Santamato um is is another overland and then maybe from Baricharra to Bogota via Villa de Leva.
• 1:06:22
  So the the yes
• 1:06:24
  Flying is fundamental unless you have a month or two months to s to travel around.
• 1:06:29
  But and some areas like the Pacific Coast, for example, from Medellin, it's a forty minute flight.
• 1:06:35
  You can't get there by road.
• 1:06:37
  Um, the only other way would be to come up the coast on a boat.
• 1:06:40
  Um so going to like Bayosolano, um, you have to fly over the jungles and the mountains to get there, which is completely different area which we haven't touched on, but also
• 1:06:50
  incredible food, some of the best food in Colombia.
• 1:06:53
  Um
• 1:06:54
  A fish soup on the Pacific coast is the most amazing thing creation on the planet.
• 1:07:01
  Right.
• 1:07:05
  When you ask about new things and when you ask I I will say you know, talking about trend the and and and we we do very very good research in terms of all the time, you know,
• 1:07:14
  always researching like what are the new trends that are happening, what are the travelers looking for into Canada, into Colombia, sorry, from Canada and from other countries.
• 1:07:21
  We we have seen actually an increase in terms of and a growth of of more authentic and meaningful travel experiences beyond you know, our traditional destinations.
• 1:07:28
  So travelers are discovering new regions, are uh and connecting with local communities in in a much deeper way than before.
• 1:07:34
  So for example, community based tourism has become a major focus with with experiences where visitors can, you know, learn directly from local communities, indigenous groups,
• 1:07:43
  Afro Colombian communities, and so on.
• 1:07:44
  So I I think from from trend, from a trend position that will be something new.
• 1:07:49
  But Brenda mentioned something really cool and really, really important that is our cuisine and our gastronomy.
• 1:07:55
  And I and I think that's uh we have seen a a a huge development and evolution into the gastronomy scene of Colombia.
• 1:08:02
  Right now you're seeing, for example, the number one restaurant when it comes to the fifty best world restaurant in Latin in Latin America is in Bogota and it's called El Chato.
• 1:08:11
  So if you see that the number fifth bar in the world, in the fifty best world bars, is in Cartagena, that is alchemico.
• 1:08:17
  So you realize that gastronomy in gastronomy is seen is happening uh in a in a very evolution that that that that you can find actually even at the same level of Peru or or
• 1:08:28
  or other competitors that that before used to be like the
• 1:08:31
  you know, the major leagues and Colombia was was like here.
• 1:08:34
  Right now you see Colombia in the major leagues of gastronomy for sure, because of the different, you know, new uh propositions that ha has come out into the cuisine and into
• 1:08:44
  the gastronomy and the evolution of that.
• 1:08:46
  So right now you can go there and it's a good way also to say that it's it's kind of affordable if you compare it into other destinations in a very high end gastronomy, in
• 1:08:55
  affordable way, you could get really, really nice food and it's very diverse as well as
• 1:09:00
  Brenda was saying like every region from other
• 1:09:02
  And and I think it always exceeds so sorry, it always exceeds expectations the food because people Peruvian cuisine has a a fame like Italian or Chinese, but Colombian food
• 1:09:14
  doesn't really.
• 1:09:15
  And so people like the destination, you know, they are always uh the reality exceeds the expectation in terms of the destination and definitely in terms of the food.
• 1:09:28
  I'm glad you both I'm glad you both brought that up um in particular to focus on because Brendan I was gonna say to you, I think you might have fallen in love with Columbia on
• 1:09:37
  your first travel trip, but I think your second love is their food because you because you brought that up many times throughout your conversation today in in each different region.
• 1:09:46
  this is really good.
• 1:09:46
  Oh, but the food is great as well.
• 1:09:48
  This is really good, but the food is really good as well.
• 1:09:50
  So
• 1:09:51
  Well yeah, so yeah.
• 1:09:54
  It's good.
• 1:09:55
  Like I I can attest to that as well because um we would spoil ourselves at a nice restaurant, particularly in Cartagena and Bogota, as we're overlanding.
• 1:10:02
  And this is, you know, a long time ago.
• 1:10:04
  It was stunning then.
• 1:10:05
  But even one of my favorite memories of Cartagena is walking down to the docks in the morning um and getting a fruit smoothie.
• 1:10:14
  There used to be, and it's probably changed now.
• 1:10:16
  All these little fruit vendors on the on the dock side there.
• 1:10:20
  And they do your fruit smoothies and it was just like cost nothing and was healthy and awesome.
• 1:10:28
  again, a curiosity question for myself.
• 1:10:31
  Um, I always recommend driving around the country 'cause that's what I used to do as a living.
• 1:10:35
  It's I think one the best ways, but it does entail needing more time to do it.
• 1:10:39
  But um, Brenda, you mentioned one of the uh really cool drives is from Cartagena to Santa Marta or vice versa.
• 1:10:45
  And again, this is just a question for myself.
• 1:10:47
  When we used to do the drive, um
• 1:10:50
  I can't remember the name of the area, but you it was a coastal thing and I think it was a causeway that was built along the seafront and it was an ecological disaster at the time
• 1:10:59
  because by building this causeway they blocked the tidal flow to this um wetland area.
• 1:11:05
  And as you drive to Santa Marta to your right, you'd see all these it was rather pretty from a artistic photographic point of view, but sad, because all these dead mangroves and
• 1:11:15
  stuff.
• 1:11:16
  I think we spoke about this a podcast or two ago.
• 1:11:19
  I think you said that that has recovered.
• 1:11:21
  Is that right?
• 1:11:22
  And do you know what I'm even talking about?
• 1:11:24
  Yeah, no, I do know the area you're talking about.
• 1:11:26
  It looks a bit lunar when you get up close to it.
• 1:11:28
  Um some of it has recovered, yes, but there are still parts of it which are yeah, it's a shame.
• 1:11:34
  I mean, it does make the road, the drive pretty spectacular.
• 1:11:39
  because y you know, you've got the ocean on one side where it is quite rough in that area with the waves crashing in.
• 1:11:44
  And then the other side you have mangroves that are healthy and and beautiful, and then some areas where they have been parched.
• 1:11:51
  But I believe
• 1:11:53
  Ju might know more than me that there is a a project to expand that road now into a double highway.
• 1:12:00
  So God knows what the results that will be.
• 1:12:04
  We shall see.
• 1:12:05
  But now in Colombia there is a lot of you know sustainability practices w as well in construction.
• 1:12:12
  You know, you can't just build something and destroy like you might have been able to do when that road was originally built.
• 1:12:18
  There are more controls now on that um type of project.
• 1:12:22
  Yeah.
• 1:12:22
  And again, I don't mean to infer that it was done um willingly to destroy.
• 1:12:27
  I think it was done un unknowingly that they didn't realise the impact it was going to have.
• 1:12:31
  But I was just curious, uh, as times have changed, and I do remember we spoke about it once before, and I think you'd said, well you just as you said now, it is starting to
• 1:12:40
  recover naturally, but hopefully they'll be more responsible should they look to expanding it.
• 1:12:45
  Okay then.
• 1:12:45
  So um some key things I think before we say goodbye.
• 1:12:49
  Um again I'm gonna keep coming back to this line 'cause I really like it.
• 1:12:53
  Um, the go to for Columbia is its diversity, is its variance in things to see and do, the cultural immersion that you can have, be it a couple of hours from the big cities,
• 1:13:02
  Cartagena, Medellín, Bogota itself, or if you are more adventurous and you are truly seeking something new and unique, which is something Juan brought out um in regards to
• 1:13:14
  what's new and trending, and we've seen this as well.
• 1:13:16
  Um, that people are coming to us and in turn looking to these countries for
• 1:13:21
  Um, you know, less traveled, unique, more immersive, also spending a bit longer and truly enjoying be it your five star hotel or being your rustic lodge, often Los Llanos, you
• 1:13:33
  know, you know, taking photos of birds.
• 1:13:35
  Um, Columbia definitely has all of the above.
• 1:13:38
  Um, it is definitely gearing itself and positioning itself for the traditional destinations, but also for this diversity, which we've discussed today.
• 1:13:48
  Um and again
• 1:13:51
  If you have a client that's interested, one there's a lot to offer in South America.
• 1:13:56
  Um, and and Columbia should not be forgotten.
• 1:13:59
  Don't just automatically I'm talking to our travel agents out here now.
• 1:14:02
  Don't fall back on the on the usual Ecuador, Peru, Chile, Argentina, which are beautiful.
• 1:14:07
  Love them to death myself.
• 1:14:08
  I'm sure Juan and Brendan have traveled there as well and and it can attest to their beauty.
• 1:14:13
  But often Colombia to this day is forgotten about.
• 1:14:16
  And it's not for old reasons, just a lot of people don't maybe think about it.
• 1:14:20
  for the reasons we've discussed today.
• 1:14:22
  It's biodiversity, it's cultural diversity, um, it's modern offerings, it's sort of more rustic offerings.
• 1:14:31
  Um it's all there.
• 1:14:32
  It's easy to get to, as Juan clearly stated, particularly from Canada and the US, like direct flights left, right, and center in um Air Canada for our Canadian listeners is
• 1:14:41
  expanding and they don't expand unless there's demand.
• 1:14:44
  The demand is there.
• 1:14:45
  It's an affordable country.
• 1:14:47
  it's on par with anywhere else in South America.
• 1:14:50
  You have luxury, as I mentioned, you have rustic, you have river cruises, you have coastal cruises, you have modern history things like you know, the troubled times.
• 1:15:00
  They've become tourist destinations now.
• 1:15:03
  Tours for, you know, Escobars, you know, antics as well.
• 1:15:06
  It's all now a tourist attraction.
• 1:15:10
  Um, so the you know, the country's got everything you could possibly want.
• 1:15:14
  Um
• 1:15:16
  And it's friendly, it's safe at all levels.
• 1:15:19
  So please, please, please keep Columbia at the top of your list when someone comes to you with a request for South America, or if they're unsure, give Columbia a you know a fair
• 1:15:30
  shot of what it has to offer because it's you know, it's got it all.
• 1:15:34
  so before we say goodbye, let me start with Brenda.
• 1:15:36
  Is anything else you'd like to leave our listening audience with before we say adios?
• 1:15:41
  Well no, just to add to your comment to come to Colombia um and and have the time of your life, I think is a message in that it will it will always exceed the expectations of
• 1:15:52
  people going there.
• 1:15:53
  Um and people go there, we have to be honest, with a little bit of trepidation and an awful lot of ignorance.
• 1:15:59
  And within a very short period of arriving in the country, they are changing the chip um and thinking, my god, it
• 1:16:07
  not like I thought.
• 1:16:09
  And and the charm and openness of the people makes people feel very cozy and and warm and safe and looked after um in Colombia.
• 1:16:19
  And that no matter the the the cultural background or the different regions you're in, you all feel that that people um they want to host you um in in in this incredibly diverse and
• 1:16:32
  beautiful country.
• 1:16:32
  So yeah, it should be top of the list all the time because it has everything.
• 1:16:37
  In one country.
• 1:16:39
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:16:40
  And yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 1:16:42
  Um, Juan, anything you'd like to say before we say goodbye?
• 1:16:45
  Yeah, I w I would like to finish with what you started.
• 1:16:48
  That is like beyond the walled city of Cartagena.
• 1:16:51
  We have an incredible historical depth of uh across the country.
• 1:16:55
  So just to mention some destinations before we go, because I I know the always always survivers are a asking about that, like destinations for example, like Montpox, that is a
• 1:17:04
  preserved colonial jewel frozen in the Tyne along with the Magdalena River, or the San Agustin Archaeological Park, that is home to the largest group of religious monuments.
• 1:17:14
  and megalithic sculptures in South America, just to give you two examples of two opposites, one in the Caribbean, another one in the in the Indians, each side tells a
• 1:17:24
  distant chapter of the of our history, offering advisors a chance of you know to to build rich multi-stop historical itineraries wherever they go.
• 1:17:34
  So just you know that that to keep in mind that that as as Brenda mentioned also as well, is way beyond Cartagena, it's way beyond Bogota, it's way beyond Medellin.
• 1:17:44
  Because it has a lot of new destinations, and and when I say new is because you know new for them to to watch and new for them to to visit and new for them to experience.
• 1:17:54
  Okay.
• 1:17:54
  Let me ask you this just before we do do say goodbye, Juan.
• 1:17:59
  as you and Brenda have been talking about these different areas, there's some I know, like in my head, I know on a map where it would be.
• 1:18:06
  and others I don't know.
• 1:18:07
  Now a lot of our agents out there probably know where Cartagena and Bogotar is, maybe Median and and Kali.
• 1:18:14
  Do you you being pro Columbia have a tourist map that highlights some of the areas we di we discussed today that I could either put up on our visual podcast here or make available
• 1:18:27
  to our agents?
• 1:18:29
  Yeah, actually more than a map.
• 1:18:31
  We have uh for travel agents, we have an specialist program where they they can go to the the specialist program and become a a certified specialist agent of a as a Columbia
• 1:18:40
  specialist agent, and there they can find a lot of you know tools.
• 1:18:43
  They have marketing tools, they have handbook manuals, for example, who have beautiful handbook manuals of nature and adventure, of culture, of the Magdalena River, of
• 1:18:51
  butterflies.
• 1:18:52
  We have practical guides that they can learn to for example who have a practical guide of cycling, we have a practical guide for
• 1:18:58
  for uh diving.
• 1:19:00
  So we have different tools in in that specialist course that they can access to that is Columbia Specialist dot com.
• 1:19:05
  We also have the our official website that is Columbia.trouble slash EN where they can find all the information, where to go, what to do.
• 1:19:13
  They have the different maps of the different regions, all the variety of destinations that they can find.
• 1:19:17
  And we also have our YouTube channel that is Columbia Trouble, where you can find documentary cities, videos and a lot of new things to get inspired about Colombia in in a
• 1:19:27
  more like
• 1:19:28
  Graphical way.
• 1:19:29
  Juan, if I didn't know better, I'd say you're trying to cut Goey out here 'cause you've given our agents all the information they should be coming to us for.
• 1:19:37
  Yeah, yeah, for sure.
• 1:19:39
  For sure.
• 1:19:39
  And and and and actually, you know, it's it's it's been great.
• 1:19:42
  Uh Don the the the the judge that you're doing here in Canada business with you, go is one of those two piters that we really always like to work with because the way you understand
• 1:19:52
  Colombia, the way you perceive Colombia, the type of packages that you have for Colombia is way different of the mainstream things that we see.
• 1:19:58
  And obviously you are in the best hands with Colombia fifty seven, one of the main um and most from my perspective, one of the most
• 1:20:05
  You know, representative DMCs that we have in Colombia for sure.
• 1:20:08
  Yeah, now Go way, as our agents know, you know, we specialize in our regions.
• 1:20:12
  You'll only speak to someone who sells Latin America in this instance.
• 1:20:16
  Um and by extension, we we partner with the best in the country and uh Columbia fifty seven have been with us for a while now and uh they're fantastic, as Juan says, we trust
• 1:20:28
  them.
• 1:20:29
  With our clients when they or your clients more to the point when they're in Columbia.
• 1:20:34
  And more importantly, um, I think as I think you've heard today through Brendan's answers, their local knowledge and looking beyond the norm will offer go away and intern you more
• 1:20:45
  and inclusive and immersive experiences down there.
• 1:20:49
  So on that note, I'd like to thank Brendan coming all the way from Medie Inn.
• 1:20:53
  I'd like to thank Juan coming from about 15 kilometers down the road in his Toronto office and as
• 1:20:59
  As always, I'd like to thank you out there carving out an hour or so of your day.
• 1:21:03
  Um and until next time.
• 1:21:07
  Thank you very much.
• 1:21:08
  Goodbye.
• 1:21:08
  Hello Egos.
• 1:21:09
  uh
• 1:21:10
  Tchau, tchau.