Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode 16: Can Crypto Benefit Farmers & Offer Food Insurance for Consumers? Part 2 (with Dr. Donald McCullough)

Transcript

Episode 16: Can Crypto Benefit Farmers & Offer Food Insurance for Consumers? Part 2 (with Dr. Donald McCullough) · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: There were there were massive, massive barter fairs as people, you know, rebelled against whatever fiat money.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: And um and there were massive barter fairs where people came with whatever, you know, everything from chickens to you know artwork.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: And and and it was it was swap.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a cashless, it was a cashless swap.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it funny to think that perhaps the uh the disruptor of crypto will be something as retro as as uh as as uh barter fairs, you know, uh empty empty Walmarts, empty Walmart buildings get used for massive uh weekly barter fairs.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't know, but but you know, those are the kinds of absolutely the kind of disruptors how culture you know responds, how culture responds to things.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome everyone to the Beyond Labels podcast with Dr.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cena McCullough and yours truly, Joel Salatin.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of podcasts ago, we dealt in, we we went into the cryptocurrency uh scene.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's new to some of us, some of us are quite familiar with it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Me personally, I know nothing about it, basically how to spell it, and that's about it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so we we we we dove into that a little bit.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was really, really a fascinating podcast.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you missed that one, you know, run back and grab it, but because that's the precursor to today's.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're not gonna go over that, we're not gonna plow that old ground.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: We want to move forward today uh quickly into uh the the the bottom line for the previous one was you know, does does cryptocurrency offer an opportunity for um uh you know for truly tracking and and negotiating within the local food space?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And does this give farmers and consumers a way to um you know to work together and and develop markets and develop uh food commerce on a local on a local level that is uh that is highly transparent.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so uh at the end of that, you know, it was very positive.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But then at the end, our our um senses came to us.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: We realized, well, it it's not all glorious.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there are certain things.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so um our our kind of uh uh you know uh expert on this on this topic with us today is Cena's husband, uh Donnie.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we're really appreciative and uh and grateful to have his expertise with us.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: He he he's he hasn't written any books on it, he's not you know uh a multi-billionaire with cryptocurrency, but he but he but he is a banker and works in the financial in the financial space and uh and has done a lot, has had to do a tremendous amount of personal research about cryptocurrency for his current um his current work.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're really delighted to have him with us.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So uh let's dive right in and um and uh uh I I think I'll I'll ask maybe the first question here.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that is you know what what is the pot what is the you know two or three um concerns and pitfalls in the cryptocurrency space that that that may derail its uh all of its you know positives?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: There are several, at least that I that I look at and give me a little bit of pause when I look at that space.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: Probably the first one is and the one that most people think of is the government just gonna ban it.
• 3:41
  unknown: Right?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: Cryptocurrency, in essence, is trying to be like a new form of money.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone's worried, well, the government has a monopoly on money with the Federal Reserve power.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: Are they gonna ban it?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you know, that potential exists, right?
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that potential is a lot less now than it was a couple years ago.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, now let me start off by saying China recently came out with something and they forbid or forbade all of their citizens from holding cryptocurrency.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the reason they're doing that is they were afraid of people getting their money out of the country.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then also they're planning to launch their own Chinese central bank digital currency.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, just because they banned it, it's hard to say how successful it actually is.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't see the price of crypto drop to zero or anything like that.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um but in the US, it's a little bit different story.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: The government doesn't have quite the control that China does.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: So is it theoretically possible?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it is that they could ban it, but it would be a lot harder for one than it would be in China to do.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, secondly, I think I mentioned this earlier.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let me yeah, let me just back up a minute, uh uh Donnie.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if in China what's the I mean you you describe to us very nicely how crypto works.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um what is the big danger in a government-issued or or a government uh sanctioned crypto versus what we have?
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, would would that completely destroy the the positives of it?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or I mean, you know, like we talked about with the farmers in Italy or whatever, or or would it or or would it uh fundamentally change?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it would it would fundamentally change things.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, a a government-issued cryptocurrency would be an extra step of control over what they have over the currency now.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: So if they had access to the to a blockchain and the whole currency was on there, they'd be able to go in and make changes, add money into it, remove it depending on their level of control.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they would definitely have oversight into everything you're doing, much more than today.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: All right, today they can they can get a hold of the private bank's information, they can look and see where money is flowing and all that, or at least in theory, they can.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right now they're not supposed to, but I think that was in one of the versions of a bill recently, or that they're trying to pass is to start looking at every account that has over$600.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: So they're talking about that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: But with a blockchain, they would absolutely have complete control over seeing everything.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like there would be there would be nothing hidden whatsoever.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then if they actually outlawed physical cash and everything had to be on there, every single transaction that occurred on there, they would have access to.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: So absolutely they would have that control.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: The difference with the ones that are decentralized that are coming out is the government doesn't have that control right now.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: And you also have, while people can see the things that are going on the blockchain, unless you come out and say you are this address on there, no one knows who it is.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: And you can also have multiple at what they call wallets, but in essence, it's multiple addresses.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: You could have multiple addresses, you could have your public facing one, and maybe you tell, like, for example, Joel with you, Polyface would have this account and everyone knows what it is.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: But for your own personal, you might have two or three other ones or on different blockchains where you could make other purchases and whatnot.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you'd have a level of anonymity on the current system of cryptocurrency versus if the government went through and did their own.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there have been talks in some white papers done by the Federal Reserve on creating a US version of a blockchain type currency.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so I have a feeling they will move in that type of direction at some point.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: That that seems to be where the smart money thinks is going.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: But um so they would be trying to increase control, but that doesn't mean that just because even they create one, they're just going to be the only one.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they, if they did, they would have to come out and be able to outlaw all the others.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that sounds simple.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: In practice, that actually would be much harder than it looks to be able to outlaw everything because right now these blockchains are almost running on their own.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: There's not like some single server, there's not some building somewhere that has all the Bitcoin or all of the Ethereum on it.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right is spread everywhere.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: So as long as someone has access to the internet, in theory, they can access these blockchains and make transactions on there.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Additionally, if the government, this is something I've been thinking about.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: If the government tried to outlaw it, we all know how good they are at writing laws.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, how I'm not sure how they would do it because there's you got all the cryptocurrencies, and a lot of them do different stuff.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them, like Bitcoin, are literally like a digital version of gold.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Some of the um blockchains are much more purpose-built.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them are built for trading things back and forth, some of them are built for um holding smart contracts.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's a little bit harder from a regulatory standpoint to come out and say this is money versus not money on the blockchain space.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And even if they were to write the laws, I actually think they'd be at risk of end up regulating things a way that aren't necessarily on the internet, but kind of act like cryptocurrencies.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: If you remember the last episode, we were talking about raffle tickets at a farm or at a uh fair, right?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: How you get the little raffle tickets to be able to purchase things, um, casinos with poker chips.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: In essence, that's almost what that is.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_02: You have some sort of token that represents money that you walk around at that place and you're able to make transactions with.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: You can go to the concession stand, you can go gamble.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, another example would be like frequent flyer miles for the airlines.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: In essence, that's an alternative type of currency, right?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: They're giving you that in return.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: You hold access to that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you have the rights to that.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And in return, they will give you goods and services.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: That's a currency.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so I actually think it would be very difficult for them to create a perfect legislation that would outlaw cryptocurrencies and not create problems elsewhere in the economy.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the other reason I'm a little less worried about them banning it, I think I think they would have had a higher shot if they had tried this three or four years ago.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Crypto within the past, especially year or two, has become a little bit more mainstream.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: There was recently a Bitcoin ETF that launched.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's thoughts of an Ethereum-based uh ETF they're launching.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Wall Street has bought in.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some of your billionaires, millionaires are buying into it now.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: So we all know how the US government can be influenced by money.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think a lot of the money is now flowing into it.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: They're gonna be against an outright banning at this point.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Four or five years ago, those people weren't there.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: They probably would have been okay with it.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's gonna get it's getting harder and harder every day for the government to just come out and ban it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: I think they're gonna end up living side by side with it.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: That uh so if y'all have any questions, otherwise, Joel, I think you asked for two or three reasons.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: So that was a long way to do that.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's um uh that's great.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Cena, you feel free to feel free to jump right in here.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, the the idea that there's that much flowing into it and and the Chinese the Chinese uh pushback didn't bobble the value, uh leads me at least to think that a lot of these Chinese still still have some.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, uh you know it's hard to know for sure.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm guessing they do.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: The the one big thing it did do was prior to them putting starting to put in place some of these bands, a lot of the Bitcoin mining, which is basically the term they use for the people who use the computers to verify transactions on there, was actually done in China.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And those put people all had to supposedly, they had to legally close up shop.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: There might be some illegal operations, but all had to close up shop.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, that's led to a lot of Bitcoin mining operations moving to America and other countries.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of places, a lot of places have started to open up in the US, which is interesting because, I mean, let's face it, we care a little bit more about the environment and how things are going on here in the US than they do in China.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: And there's actually been some very interesting side effects that have started to occur by Bitcoin mining operations moving to other parts in the US to better power consumption and all this kind of stuff.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: But uh I heard there was one place, I want to say it was in Texas or Louisiana, that was taking their Bitcoin mining rigs, the super powerful computers, and to read to capture the heat that all these computers were creating, the power waste.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: They were throwing them in vats of water, heating up the water, and using that almost as a steam generator to then be able to create electricity off of it.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: So there is some definitely interesting stuff coming off that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's new uh new alternative power.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh our our our house our house is powered by uh Bitcoin waste heat.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, there you go.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna jump in.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So my concern isn't necessarily about government banning it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like I like you said, I think it's too gone, it's it's too far down the road now for them to ban it.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: My concern is more government taking it over.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there's the one the on the one side, the the taxing of it, which that seems like likely to happen.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the other side is just just them being able to move it from like right now, in my opinion, it sounds more like a free market solution, like a almost like a libertarian um solution, right, to our financial system that we currently have.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems like the government is not gonna like that.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so that they're gonna try to take it over and nudge us to get us on the blockchain.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I'm just making this up, but maybe they nudge you by saying um you, you know, you you have to be on this blockchain in order to get a driver's license, or you know what I mean, like put regulations or restrictions on it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do this unless you do this thing that we want you to do, which is what we're already seeing right now, right?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: But with the vac with the vaccines, with the vaccines, we're already seeing it.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're seeing it.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm concerned they're gonna try to nudge us onto these platforms and then um or these crypto spaces, and then that can lead to a social credit score developing, right?
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: If then they can not only see everything, I mean they can see everything you're doing versus like what you're saying now, the government can see these transactions if they request um the data from, for instance, a bank, you know.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: But this is all now um data that they can access every transaction that you're making.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be very easy for them to develop or to start ranking everybody on this social credit system.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, they can absolutely do that, right?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a technology, and technology can be turned for good or evil.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we've seen thousands and millions of examples of that over the course of history.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they most likely will do these types of things.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: But like, don't think of blockchain as this monolithic type thing.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the technology.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you go back, the the best um analogy I've heard to this whole space is if you go back and remember those of us old enough to go back to remember the 90s when the internet was starting to become a thing and how decentralized it is or was back then.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: So think of blockchain as like the internet, the underlying technology.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's then what people do with it.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: So back then, people were creating individual websites, right?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And some of them were using it to sell things, some of them were doing it to display information, whatever.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Think of it almost like that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: The underlying, so if you if you go back to that, yeah, the government was or private businesses or whatever were able to start taking over portions of it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the portions of the internet did eventually get used for what we would probably consider not good types of things, data collection, all that kind of stuff.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: The same thing will happen here.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what exactly the negatives will be.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: There will be negatives here.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it could be data, it makes it easier for them to keep databases of uh passports or driver's licenses or stuff like that.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that probably will exist.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: But that also doesn't mean that all of it's gonna be bad, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: The one thing about blockchains, don't think it, while that's a generic term, a cryptocurrency is a generic term.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know how many there are.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: There's probably thousands of individual blockchains that aren't related really to one another.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And it's getting easier and easier for someone to start up their own.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you had something like, let's say Bitcoin, the most popular one, and I don't know how they would do that, but let's just say that somehow the government took it over.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't know how they would do that, but let's just pretend somehow they did.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: But then you just start another one.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: You you just start another one, a new a new blockchain and go with that.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, like that's how you get around it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if somehow someone ends up taking over one, you just create another one.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: But is it on so I've never actually been on a blockchain?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: When you say you create a blockchain, does it have a unique website?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, for instance, we know the government and other organizations, I won't name names, already censor a lot of us and you know, deplatform us.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, is it something where they could just censor it?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: They could just take it down.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: You create another one, then they take it down.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: You create another one, they take it down.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's just not true.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Not the companies you're thinking of.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're thinking of like the big technological companies, Google and Facebook and all that kind of stuff.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, blockchain is especially if you listen to a lot of the people, and and I recommend folks go look at YouTube and find visionaries and stuff on there.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: There are people that are really, really good in the space, and most of them actually are libertarian bent.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, let me give one example to the audience out there.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I love this gentleman named William Quigley, who's been involved in the blockchain space for 10 years.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: Go watch his YouTube videos.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: He's got some phenomenal ones on there.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's where I've gotten quite a bit of my information on.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: But part of the thing about blockchain is getting past some of that centralized control.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's almost like if you listen to some of these visionaries, they would tell you that if you go back to the 90s with the internet, that was like a libertarian dream of being able to put out all this information, controlling it, all that stuff.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, the internet um got centralized behind some of these companies and they started to create choke points through Google and the Facebooks and these types of things.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's become centralized, and it's only going to probably continue to get centralized, especially if government starts regulating all that stuff.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And even though the government says they're going to regulate against the big companies, we all know regulations always end up hurting the small people and create barriers for entry and all that stuff.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: This well, the the other, yeah.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is that that if you look at the progression of innovation, um it is axiomatic that all innovation starts uh extremely um uh diffuse or uh or diversified.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, in in 19, I think it was 19 uh 1912, there were 1,500 auto manufacturers.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so when you study the diffusion of innovation, it starts with this real, you know, uh all these all these uh free thinkers, if you will, in that space.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh well, I mean look look how few airlines we have today.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: In in 1960, you know, we had uh you know, we had we had 50 to 100 um competitive airlines.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Today, you know, we're down to about four.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is just the the what happens is that the ones that have the better brand, the better messaging, the better service, uh they tend to move to the top.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so um if if we take that pattern, the chances are that in you know, in let's just say crypto continues on its current trajectory, that in 10 years uh there will be the the the yeah, anybody could start one, but it becomes more and more difficult, just like well, anybody could start a new uh anybody could start a new car brand today.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's go do this, you know.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, Elon Musk is really the only one.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there have been numerous ones who have who have tried in the last 40 years, but uh you know, Elon Musk is really the only one who has been who has been successful in actually bringing uh you know uh uh a competitive brand to market.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so with that centralization, it becomes more and more difficult uh you know for for uh for for a a true libertarian uh access to you know to to find a spot in the market.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you bring up a good show point, Joel, and yeah, that's that's probably gonna happen here, right?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_02: There's probably a thousand players here, and there'll probably be more, and like you said, in 10 years, there'll be probably 50.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then 10 years past that, there'll probably be five, and we'll be having the same complaints, right?
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: There'll be different complaints, but they'll be similar in nature that we do to Facebook and Google.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, you go back 30, 40 years, everyone was probably having the same complaints.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have to buy a GM or Ford or whatever.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I don't get all those little ones, I don't get my Packard car and all that kind of stuff anymore.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: And but you know, if that's gonna happen, right?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: So then you just wait for the new disruptive technology to come along 20, 30 years, there'll be something, there'll be something else.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, as of right now, we're gonna look to break the stranglehold that these big tech platforms are.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: I can only see a couple different ways.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: One is through government regulation, which probably is not gonna work.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, second would be someone starting a direct competitor against them.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you've seen that there have tried to be platforms that have come up to directly compete against these big tech firms.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so far, none of them have really taken off.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: You even have people who are like anti Facebook that still won't leave Facebook to go to a competitor because all their friends are there.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that happens.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: So the third way is going to be a different type of technology that brings the people in.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: And what we have today, the best chance probably is this blockchain crypto stuff.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: How it's all gonna look, 10 years.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Years from now?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: But if you go back 10 years ago, no one would have predicted how it looks today.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Shoot, no one two or three years ago was predicting some of the advances that have occurred within the past couple of years.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then you even have you even have black swan events.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the black swan events are what you or I and nobody can actually mean who would have thought who would have thought uh you know three years ago that we would have uh you know uh the lockdowns and and the things that we've had uh all that that the the coronavirus is truly truly a black swan.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever you think about it or believe about it or whatever, uh it was truly a a black swan.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um and those kind of disruptors are impossible to predict and impossible to know how they'll you know how they'll impact everything.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean, you know, it it it could it could be I I don't know whether you're old enough to remember I am.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the the uh love affair back in the late 70s with barter fairs.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um there were there were massive, massive barter fairs as people you know rebelled against whatever fiat money.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was it was certainly uh uh you know a hippie, uh a hippie libertarian back to the land.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: It it kind of went with the whole you know uh back to the land hippie movement.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And um and there were massive barter fairs where people came with whatever, you know, everything from chickens to you know artwork and and and it was it was swap.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was a cashless, it was a cashless swap.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean isn't it funny to think that perhaps the um the disruptor of crypto will be something as retro as as uh as as uh barter fairs, you know?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh empty empty Walmarts, empty Walmart buildings get used for massive uh weekly barter fairs, you know.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but but you know, those are the kinds of absolutely the kind of disruptors, how how culture, you know, responds, how culture responds to things that are uh uh any other how about other any other uh or you can respond to that, but I was gonna say that reminds me of a joke, and it it's somewhat is mostly related to what you were saying.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: I remember um so every year I used to get the Madden football game that would come out for video games that Madden, Madden, the football game franchise been around for the early 90s, right?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I remember joking to my friends that every year the graphics would get better and it would get a little bit more realistic.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: I I remember joking that one year you were gonna open the box and it literally was gonna have a football and a signed piece of paper that said, go outside and throw this.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was gonna get so realistic.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was just gonna be go outside and play.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, the ultimate, the ultimate realistic Madden.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's funny.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, you got a question.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I was just yeah, go ahead, Cena.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: Cena.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, I want to jump in here because as you brought up that point, the disruptor might be like a bartering system.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love that, that like that idea that it'd be barter.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm very much like you, where I like to invest in like land, right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tangible things, things I can touch and you know, go see, versus uh investing in things like the stock market, right?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and this is where my husband and I kind of um die we diverge from each other.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like the land aspect of it.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, um bartering is a much more um kind of calming approach to me.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel more at peace with that.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I'm getting, I can look you in the eye, we're exchanging it, we're you know, I get it right then, I can hold it in my hand.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas this the crypto is you can't even, it's not even tangible, right?
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's all digital.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's in this digital space.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like I don't really ever own anything.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that part, it does concern me because it's like it can just quickly be gone, right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like like with stocks, you can just lose it all.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like how Joel's father was leery of that, just you know, losing a lot of money within a few hours.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can just lose it all.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas like a land, it's there, it's you can sell it, you can make this face-to-face transaction, you know.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, and and also make meaning that it it is easier to regulate than like a face-to-face exchange with somebody.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It just seems like a less of a libertarian dream in that sense to me.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you show me where I'm going wrong?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, you so you've said a lot of stuff on there.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, well, let me take so I I get the tangibility of the land and want to go out and touch it, but um that that you have access to that, but that can be taken away from you in a myriad of ways as well.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: What if a fault line opens up in the middle of your land?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: What if a volcano pops up?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: What if army ants take over?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, sorry, our kids are one of ants.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that's something they um the government, yeah.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: What if a hungry what if a hungry mob uh attacks you with you know clubs and sticks?
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: And yep.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the government can always raise property taxes, they can always declare imminent domain and take your land.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, like it's while it feels safe, it I it has risk as well.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: It has risk as well.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, you can turn around and sell that land, but if army ants took it over or something, or a hungry mob has set up their shelter camp on it, well, you're not gonna get very much for it, or if you're gonna be able to sell it at all.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: So, like there's there's risk of land.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: I I do get what you're saying though about the physical tangible.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, moving to this digital space is uncomfortable in that regard.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: You don't have something to hold on to.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, on the other hand, the government's giving you something to hold on to, cash, right?
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you do technically have cash.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: However, most of and I know that most of our money is not sitting in cash.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: We don't walk around and hand it to people, right?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: We don't walk around bar uh paying with stuff that way.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: We're perfectly fine going in using credit cards, moving money electronically through digitally.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, like on one hand, you're already kind of used to it versus we don't do all in cash transactions.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, but and just to piggyback on that, so some places now actually won't allow you to pay in cash, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: You have to pay in credit card.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it's already a nudge to go into the digital space, right?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: So so we're already in real time being nudged there.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I yes, you're you're right.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I want to go back to your one point about the barter.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: So if you look at history and all the societies and all the different tribes, all of them probably started out with bartering.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll I think I'm not sure of any example that didn't do this, they all independently came up with some sort of exchange, form of exchange, whether it was seashells, gold coins, whatever, pretty much everyone independently came up with it because bartering has drawbacks.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: It works great if both the two person you're talking to has exactly what you need and you have what they need, and you guys adjust to this the same value.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_02: If if you guys both have something you need, but you don't want it today, you want it six months from now, well, then you have a problem, right?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Especially if it's something that uh if it's like a food source that would go bad within six months.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, how do you trade those things and create in a store of value?
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's where money's come up independently everywhere throughout the world.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so while bartering sounds great, it ends up having some severe limitations.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, sure it does.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's for sure.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was just I was just throwing that out as a as a possible um, you know, uh uh pushback, just like just like today, um cash.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cash is the pushback to um you know to taxes and and and uh regulations.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: If if if I if you come and uh and and and work a day for me and I just hand you cash, we do it on under the under the table, you know, is the operative term, under the table.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh right now, there's really no way for the government to track that uh that transaction.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um and and and usually when there is when there is uh uh regulatory pressure put on an area, um I mean just like drugs, you know, uh you outlaw drugs, now there's a whole you know uh under undercurrent of um of ill illicit drugs going on.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um somehow peep you know people always push back on um on those regulations and try to figure out a way around that uh around that manipulation.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Markets are markets are are are are too strong to just be you know uh uh to be wished away.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they're just they're just too strong.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: People's needs are too strong to be wished away.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and people are um innovative, they'll come up with ways to get to get around things, and that people will come up with ways that you've never even thought of to do something, like that you can't think of.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I I come across at my job all the time and trying to help design a website for uh the the company I work for.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, that person did what they did that like they how they even find that hole or that gap that we never even thought of.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: That that happens all the time.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: People are just innovative in how they'll do things, even if it's something as simple as, oh, I hit the back button three times and then forward once on my internet browser and all of a sudden it worked.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, who would have thought that anyone would have tried that combination and come up to work, but it worked?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's not a real example, anyone.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just making that up.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's not that's not a real thing.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um do not do not try this at home.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, I that was completely made up.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um but I I think this brings up so going back to your original question was name two or three things are difficult.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is kind of starting to get to where one of the one of the three things I want to bring up was the difficulty using it right now or lack of ease in using this technology right now.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it is very difficult to start using, to start getting involved, to get your money over into cryptocurrencies, learning what they're even about, how to use them, all the new terminology.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right now, that is very difficult, and that is a huge um barrier for entry for a lot of people.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I looked at there's so many blockchains out there.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: I I got us on one um and I spent several months myself like diligently trying to learn about it and how it works and everything before I started putting my money on there.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it does require learning.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think that will get easier over time.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I go back to my internet analogy.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: The internet was somewhat difficult to use in the early 90s.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: And if you all remember the first time you started paying for things online and how you didn't trust it and how much of a pain it was to try to buy some a credit card or whatever.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Over time, things got easier.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, people built the underlying infrastructure of the internet and the web pages and all that, and then all the customer-friendly apps started getting built on top of it, PayPal and all this stuff to start making like transactions easier.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: I assume that cryptocurrencies will go the same way.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're difficult today, they're less difficult than they were five years ago to get into and get a hold of.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: And they'll continue to get a little bit more user-friendly as time goes on.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: But right now, it's not like say, Sena or Joel, I've convinced you you're gonna go buy whatever, some sort of cryptocurrency.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's not gonna be a five-minute transaction.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have to go figure out how to go get a hold of it, how to hold it, how to take care of it, all that kind of stuff.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna be some work right now.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one downside, it's the barrier to entry.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: But once you get in, you understand it.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then you kind of understand it.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're ready to go.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Again, going back to my internet analogy, you know, it back in the 90s, we all had to kind of start learning to use the internet.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_02: But once you learn how to use it, you kind of still know how to use it.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's slowly changed, but like the underpinnings were there.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: Once you learned it, you have that skill and you have it for the rest of your life.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Was there another a third thing that you wanted to bring up?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that was it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: That that was it.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: The the the danger, the pitfall of it is that it that it simply is is so difficult to get on that only that the the average people won't get on.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so as a as a farmer, where you're trying to sell you know ubiquitously within the within the culture, for example, uh, to everyone, including you, Cena, for example, um uh I I need a a transaction I need a transaction uh platform that doesn't require you as a customer to be some sort of you know elite crypto uh guru in order to in order to get a chicken from me or you know or a T-bone steak.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: And uh that's what Donnie's talking about.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: That that that the um that the the the platform is difficult right now, that it's not ubiquitous enough for just average transactions to happen, you know, uh you know, it's uh for somebody to walk into our our farm store here and get a dozen eggs in crypto.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that that is simply and and we don't know how long that will take.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't know.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: If we go back to our last video, we were talking about you potentially selling NFTs for turkeys and someone walks in and turkey.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I was even thinking about that since we recorded that podcast.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: It would probably be difficult for most people to do that, um, especially right now the way it is.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: It'd probably be difficult for you to manage it right now and for others to be able to get on and buy the turkeys.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: And you'd probably lose a lot of your customer base that way, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: Especially if you're like, that's the only way I'm gonna sell turkeys, is that right?
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, absolutely.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: And that's true right now.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that may not be true in two or three years.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the other thing to remember, and this is why I think adoption and usability will increase.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: There have been a lot of people who have made a lot of money in crypto, and there is a lot of money sitting there in crypto because these businesses are gonna want to start getting access to that.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so you are gonna start having big businesses come over and start trying to accept this stuff to be able to get access to those people and all that crypto money.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: You've heard the news.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Tesla keeps uh the rumor is and Tesla keeps teasing that they're gonna start accepting Bitcoin to be able to buy a Tesla.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, other big companies have started to move some of their products onto blockchains.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen that like some of the toy companies have started to get into it: Hasbro, Mattel, Funko, Funko.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: So it's starting again.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: If you I keep going back to this 90s analogy, we're probably at like 1996.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: For those who remember, like websites are starting, some things are starting to be available to purchase.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it takes some work, you are able to do it, you have to wait a long time for delivery.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it wasn't that many years afterwards that suddenly you could start buying things from a company like Amazon and something like that, and stuff started showing up, maybe not with two-day delivery back then, but four or five days, something would start showing up to your door.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: Probably a couple of years, it's gonna start looking a lot more like that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I expect I I I have no reason to think that that that's not right.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: And um and all all new technologies are intimidating at first.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh think about you know the the the the person that you know knew how to uh uh how to do a how to run a horse and moved his uh whip, you know, his uh horse and buggy to uh this driverless smoke belching loud uh machine.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um you know that that was pretty that was pretty intimidating then.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm sure that this the intimidation factor of this is is ubiquitous with all new technologies.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's always it's always intimidating on the front end.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: And uh you're oh no, I just a little humor.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, I told I shared the story with you, Joel, about how I was intimidated by my pressure cooker.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember telling Donnie, I have to have this thing.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so he he bought it and it sat in my pantry for six months.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: Now I use that thing like almost every single day.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: But to your point, even something like that, that now I use it daily, it's not even that advanced.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was intimidating.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: How many, right?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: How how many, how many uh uh uh gifted uh gifted instapods are not are not being used?
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know that that's that's a perfect example of a of a culinary technology that uh that that is intimidating.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean I I I talked to a lady actually this week uh who said, um I need somebody to show me how to garden.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've never I've never planted a vegetable.
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to learn, I want to do it, but I didn't grow up with it.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody ever showed me.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and and the thought of being responsible for this little tomato plant, uh, you know, it was it was quite it was it was quite uh uh profane, you know, like it's this is a little baby, you know, and and and uh what if I kill it, you know, and that sort of thing.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_01: And and so um all new things are intimidating, and and crypto certainly is is like that right now.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I that that might take a little bit of the whatever, the fear and the edge off of all of us to realize this is a new this is a very innovative technology, uh, and and and all new technologies are a little bit intimidating.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: So don't don't feel don't feel uh like you're alone in your you know in your concern or your fear, your intimidation.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, we all feel it with with new stuff.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and just to uh for folks out there listening, don't worry.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: There are people that have made huge mistakes out there.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't have a specific example, but there's all sorts of anecdotes out there of people who bought into say Bitcoin like 10 years ago when it was like 50 cents of Bitcoin.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: Bitcoin's now at, I don't know, somewhere around$60,000 of Bitcoin.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: So they bought tons of them, but they forgot how to log into their account.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: And because no one controls it, there's no one, uh like these blockchains, there's no one to tell them how to get into their account.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_02: So there's plenty of people out there that have potentially millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin sitting there and they don't know how to get to it.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just sitting there locked away, potentially forever, unless they figure out how to get into the stuff.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: So don't worry, you probably won't be one of those people, but imagine how angry you would be with yourself.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: You forgot your login or whatever, and you're keeping it.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like like like like uh yeah, like like I I I lost I lost the map to where I buried the box of gold.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly, exactly.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what it is.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Supposedly there's all sorts of people out there like that.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: How about that?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's amazing.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's not that that that's not me.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: The third thing, I think, going like taking it all the way back.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: The third thing that's a problem right now is, and I think it's like the second one, it will eventually sort itself out, but it's the volatility right now with with um these cryptocurrencies of blockchains.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: So their value compared to dollar, which is where a lot of people track the stuff.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: In fact, I mentioned Bitcoin just a few minutes ago, being, I don't know, 60,000, whatever it is right now.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um it goes up and down a lot.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you definitely it's almost like investing the stock market on steroids.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like some of these cryptocurrencies will go up and down a ton.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them will pump and then dump.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's the terminology for shooting up at like 10x and then for a day or so and then dropping back down 10x, whatever.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it can be very volatile right now.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, some people view this as an opportunity to make a bunch of money getting in and trading it, just like people trade uh fiat currencies, just like some people trade stocks and trade options, all that kind of stuff.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_02: But for the the general investor who wants to get involved, or maybe you want to get involved because not from investing purposes, you just want to start uh transacting on one of these things using the technology there.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, have an iron stomach right now because you will see massive swings in there.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: Again, I'm gonna throw it back to my 90s comparison.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: It it's think of it almost like internet stocks were back in the late 90s for folks who remember how things would just blow up all of a sudden in terms of value on the stock market, and then they'd be worth zero the next day.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like pets.com, I think is the most famous one that everyone remembers.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um it is like that, especially if you're gonna get in and start investing in it.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have like an iron stomach to be able to handle some of these things if you get into it right now.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think that volatility will settle down over the couple of years as probably there's consolidation in the industry, it becomes more mainstream, wider, uh broader adoption, that kind of stuff.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: But um, you all want to know some of the problems.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's one of them.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: It can definitely turn someone off.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: If they go in and buy, let's say they go in today and buy one Bitcoin for$60,000, and tomorrow it drops uh whatever, 20%.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's down to 48,000.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be over there going, like, oh my goodness, what did I do pulling out my hair?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the next day it might be back up to 16, and it might be at 80.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that's just how these things are working right now.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have to understand it's it's an investment right now if you're getting in.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: It does have volatility.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: Probably buy it if you're buying it for an investment and don't stare at it every day.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: It will drive you crazy.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, good.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this this has been this has been very helpful.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, yeah, Sena?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, like you, I said time to wrap up.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: But um, do you mind if I ask one last question?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, go ahead.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh Joel and I are both supporters of our Free market and speaking with your dollars, right?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing what you're consenting to.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you say to somebody, you know, like myself, a libertarian, who, you know, I don't want to get left behind.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds like crypto is probably not going anywhere.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: But someone who's a little concerned about this government overreach into the crypto space and that they may take it over.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so the so being aware now consciously that I do speak with my dollars.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I am, for instance, if I get on the blockchain, I am consenting to that, right?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm supporting it.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then the government takes it over and they use it to create, you know, these blockchains where you have like vaccine passports, like Bill Gates has already proposed to do, um, and they nudges onto it.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I gave the example of, oh, you have to get on this blockchain to get your driver's license or such.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: Then we became part of the problem, right?
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was our dollars, it was our consent that allowed that to happen.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because we moved the market away from the paper dollar, the credit card, and over to crypto space.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, but they already do that with the dollars, right?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: They're already controlling them, printing them like crazy and inflating the money.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this is going on during uh, you know, all the inflation scare towards the end of 2021 and not scare, the actual inflation we're seeing.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're already doing that kind of stuff.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: So with the blockchain, yeah, if you happen to own one cryptocurrency, again, I'm gonna make up examples just to drive it home.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: But like let's say you get on Ethereum, which is probably the second most popular blockchain after uh after Bitcoin.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say you buy some Ethereum coins and suddenly the government does come in and start trying to create stuff on that blockchain.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, sell your coins and go to another one.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: They're not gonna go in and take over all the cryptocurrencies right now.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe if it consolidates down to two or three, they might be able to get into that kind of stuff.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: But at that point, you just reevaluate and get out of it.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like just sell your coins and get out of it.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like I said, unless they've um well you're building mandated.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_02: You're currently building the current infrastructure right now.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Every time you use cash, you're supporting the current infrastructure of the government coming and taking over.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: You're supporting the giant banks that hold choke points of the financial transactions right now.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, every time you go on the internet and make a transaction with PayPal, you're supporting the centralization of transactions through a few of these internet giants.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: So you're doing that right now.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_02: The way right now, don't worry about 20 years from now.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: The way right now to speak with your dollars is to get out of the US dollar fiat um construct that exists right now.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_02: And the way to do that right now, other than bartering directly with people, is at the moment these cryptocurrencies.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: So don't worry about 20 years from now, because I'm sure things will be evil and turn bad and all that kind of stuff for some of this stuff.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: But focus on right now, that's get out of it right now.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so a lot of people, a lot of people do that with gold.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people pull their dollars out of the system with gold, right?
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a valid thing.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this is like an alternative to gold.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_02: And again, we don't have to do pluses and minuses of gold.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_02: I know y'all are trying to wrap up, and there's a lot of people and a lot of YouTube videos on there where you can talk about people talking about gold versus crypto.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: I almost view them as just alternate paths to get out of the US dollar system, right?
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Own some gold, own some crypto, just in case, because they've outlawed gold before.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_02: So even gold isn't perfectly safe.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: They outlawed it in the 30s during the Great Depression.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Own private ownership of gold.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: So like gold also has some of those problems with it as well.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's almost like a um, yeah, it's an alternative investment to gold.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: You can look at it.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Get your dollar, get your money out of the system.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if you're working with the current system.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think, I think Cena, one of the I think we as we wrap up here, certainly a way to uh that we can all agree um is a way to whatever, uh def defund the system, defund the beast, is to simply to simply change what we're actually you know, what we're actually investing in.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you invest in your health, uh, you invest in your in in in clean food, in clean eating.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you mentioned investing in land.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you maybe you do you do uh uh move from your condo and get into a spot where you can have a garden and a couple chickens and a rabbit, uh, you know, and a couple fruit trees, uh, that sort of thing.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um you know, those i i i if we took the if we took the money currently being spent on just consumerism and baubles and you know Christmas coming up and and you know uh China made China made stuff that's gonna be in a landfill in two months, uh if if as a soci uh if as a society we quit patronizing that kind of uh of of faddish, fetish, you know, uh uh uh foolishness and actually put our money on meaningful things, uh that what whether it's crypto, gold, or fiat currency, uh or or writing a check, um uh changing what we I mean I I've done columns in the past of what would the world look like if everybody bought like I did?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: And and there would be these massive, you know, these massive uh uh um economic sectors that would just evaporate, yeah, you know, that they wouldn't exist.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Would we be better if they didn't exist?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: Probably.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think the the one big thing we can all come together on here is that whatever currency you're using, um, you know, putting it on things of moral and sacred value uh is a place that we we can all, you know, we can all we can all get under that tip.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_01: Agree?
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you everyone for listening listening to this podcast of Beyond Labels, and we'll look forward to you.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Donnie, for your insight and your uh your your adroit erudition in this uh space.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we will we will see you all next time.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I thank y'all for having me.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um and Joel just gave me permission to buy you a Christmas gift, I think is what I heard.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's good, that's great.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Joel.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: All right, it's been a pleasure.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: Bye bye, everybody.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Bye, everybody.