Latest / Serious Lady Business / Make It or Break It: Two Truths Every Founder Faces (The Money You Fear and the Rebuild You Avoid)

Transcript

Make It or Break It: Two Truths Every Founder Faces (The Money You Fear and the Rebuild You Avoid) · Serious Lady Business

• Leslie Youngblood (00:00) Welcome back to Serious Lady Business. I'm Leslie Youngblood, your host, feminist and fellow founder of Youngblood MMC for marketing media and content. And with us today is Mandana Milano. Mandana is the founder of Peony Talent, a boutique human centered talent recruiting firm based in Los Angeles. The first chapter of her career was leading media practices at top creative ad agencies. The second half has been building and leading Peony talent to become the partner of choice for famous ad agencies, global ad tech companies, and bold brands. Mandana believes that recruiting and retaining the right talent is the only differentiator between the winning companies and, well, the non-winning companies. Welcome, Mandana. Mandana (00:47) Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today. This is so exciting. Leslie Youngblood (00:51) I'm so excited to talk to you. This is a topic. Well, kind of it's like a twofer with us today. We have two topics here, but we have not covered these yet on Serious Lady Business. And today we're talking make it or break it. Two truths every founder faces. The money you fear and the rebuild you avoid. So I want to start with the money aspect, Mandana. What was your biggest fear about finances when you first started Peony Talent? Mandana (01:18) You know, probably not knowing at all. I'm a planner by nature. I love to know. I love to plan everything ahead. I love to be in control. ⁓ And I wasn't a business or finance major in college. I don't know, I never felt like I was interested in it. And I probably still am not. But I think there is this... ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (01:21) Yeah. Yeah. Mandana (01:46) feel, I mean, okay, let's go back because I think in my agency days, I had definitely managed client business or, you know, department budgets, P &L, but never a holistic view of a business, never knowing how, what it takes to actually start and run a piece of business, right? So I think naturally it feels quite intimidating. Leslie Youngblood (02:08) it. Mandana (02:12) ⁓ when you're going to build a business and feel this knowledge or skill gap that's truly crucial to your success. And I think that was my fear of not knowing at all or not knowing enough in order to succeed. Leslie Youngblood (02:21) Mm-hmm. Do you think that the money aspect was your biggest fear about starting Peony Talent or was it just one of many things that you were worried about when starting? Mandana (02:29) Okay. No, no, it wasn't the top thing. In fact, I probably thought about it way later down the road once I already had the concept and everything else, but it definitely was a top four, you know, kind of like in back of your head of, know, how am I going to put the pieces together? And what does that look like? What does it take? What am I good at? What do I know? And where do I need support? And what does that support look like? Leslie Youngblood (02:48) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Sure, well, and I think that's so important to share and to for other women to know because you came from a place like you said you were working with budgets at big agencies and you were right millions of dollars and so you might think ⁓ she would she's not scared of money or she knows how to manage money and finances right but it's so different when it becomes your business and like all the things you have to have not just a slice of the business which is how it was when you were at the agencies. Mandana (03:12) Big millions of dollars! Yes. as. ⁓ It's so true. think one, the scale at which you operate is very different. Two, the infrastructure doesn't exist. In a big agency, you that infrastructure. You have experts that you can go to. You can have a sounding board. You can do a million things to make sure that you're making the right decisions and you're setting the client, the agency, the business, the department that you're responsible for up for success. But I think when you start from scratch, you don't have any of that. And it's not for Leslie Youngblood (03:40) Sure. Mm-hmm. Mandana (04:02) everyone and that's okay, right? I think people's comfort level with ambiguity ⁓ varies. ⁓ And I think that is probably the biggest lesson for myself is to lean into it and almost see it as an opportunity as opposed to shy away from it and kind of like not continue. So yeah. Leslie Youngblood (04:03) Right. Yeah. sure. you Yeah, that's really powerful too. That's why entrepreneurship isn't for everyone. Could there be another position or journey where there's more ambiguity? Even if you plan as much as you can, mean, there's still, every day is different. How did your view of what you needed to know financially, quote unquote, change once you were actually running a business? Like, did you think going in, I needed to know A, B, and C about finances and you realized it was Mandana (04:32) you So, I hope so. Leslie Youngblood (04:53) really XYZ, Mandana? ⁓ Mandana (04:56) You know, I think in the beginning, I really tried to simplify it for myself. And I think that's one of the things you learn being agency side is how to make complex situations easy, simple, digestible, primarily for your clients. But it's a training, right? Like in this case, it was myself. And I think I need to. Leslie Youngblood (05:11) Sure. ⁓ Mandana (05:16) kind of like come to the realization that I didn't need to immediately be an expert in reading a balance sheet. And in fact, I had to actually remind myself that I didn't even have a balance sheet to read. So I think this notion of step by step truly, like I kept thinking of, I think you and I talked about this a while ago where, Leslie Youngblood (05:25) Mm-hmm. Yeah, right? Mandana (05:41) And I felt that if the Roman and the Persian merchants thousands of years ago could establish businesses and could manage transactions without calculators or spreadsheets, so could I, right? Not to say that it isn't important and not to say that you shouldn't pay attention, but you really want to focus on that business ambition on... Leslie Youngblood (05:54) Right. Mm-hmm. Mandana (06:05) making a compelling value prop that there is an audience and there's a market for it. How that transaction gets done and the mechanics by which it operates can come together as you go on, know, talking to people, finding experts, educating yourself. Leslie Youngblood (06:16) you Mm-hmm. Mandana (06:25) And really feeling that it's okay at this phase, I'm okay with A, B, C. Maybe the next phase will get me to the next phase of knowledge and resources. But I think trying to really distill it down to the most salient point that your business is all about and then kind of going from there was something that helped me. Leslie Youngblood (06:30) What's this? I don't Mm-hmm. What would you say to women who feel intimidated by finances and financial jargon? a bit, but maybe, but they're considering starting a business anyway. Mandana (06:54) Mm. Yeah. You know, I think financial literacy is so powerful. It's amazing in life, but I think especially in business. You can't avoid it. In fact, don't avoid it. I guess that's my advice. Emma Grede has this, I don't know if you know her, Emma Grede is the founder of, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leslie Youngblood (07:03) Mm-hmm. Sure. you Yes, she just started her own podcast and I've been loving it. Mandana (07:20) She said this line Leslie Youngblood (07:20) ⁓ Mandana (07:21) that just resonated with me so much because she was addressing specifically female entrepreneurs and she said something like, if you elegantly avoid talking about money, the money will elegantly avoid you. ⁓ And I love that because We're so, especially like women in general, we shy away from it, whether it's that intimidation or fear or whatever it might be, or sometimes feeling that, well, it's not my place, or is it going to sound a certain way if I say it or if I don't talk about it? So I think don't avoid it, right? Like you have to lean into it. It's scary, it's intimidating, it's all the things that we just said. But I think the more you learn, the better decisions you can make for your business. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (07:48) Yes. ⁓ Mm-hmm. us. Mandana (08:13) And that's really empowering. That's really amazing. Some people are better business people inherently. I don't think I'm one of those. I'm definitely the learner ⁓ type. Leslie Youngblood (08:20) Mm-hmm. I think that's what everybody is the learner, Mandana. Don't think that it's just you. That's why this podcast exists, because you think, I don't know, everybody else has the answers. No, nobody has the answers, Mandana. Mandana (08:32) Yes. Yeah. Totally. think, you know, like I remember buying a book early, early on, probably the first and only finance book I ever bought. think it's an HBR classic. It's, ⁓ it's like guide to finance basics for managers or something like that. And I loved it. devoured it. I loved it. ⁓ so I think there's like things like that where it connects you at your own pace. So you don't have to move at the pace that you envision or that the world expects. Leslie Youngblood (08:53) Gotcha. you Mandana (09:06) of you, but you go at the pace that you're comfortable with, that you find useful to your own growth. ⁓ But yeah, don't avoid it. If you're starting a business, don't avoid the financial topic. Leslie Youngblood (09:13) Mm-hmm. Yeah, think that's what's even like maybe for me personally and maybe this resonates with you is finances feel so finite. Like where you are in finances or like making a financial misstep, it feels so finite. ⁓ you're gonna you're doomed. You did this or ⁓ you owe this or this invoice is late and you have to go scavenging and it just feels like so finite and like but I feel like it's important to share that it is that is not the case and that so many businesses out there that are successful today were in financial dire straits or you read about these big organizations that are going bankrupt or file for bankruptcy and then they come around and they're still around in five months because of whatever There's lot of wheelings and dealings and these are bigger organizations, but there are opportunities and options no matter what piece of the finance puzzle slash journey that you're on. Mandana (10:15) That's so true. love that you just mentioned like these big behemoth, you know, big companies going, you bankrupt. So it shows that it's not a matter of expertise. It's a matter of decision-making, right? It doesn't matter how much, you know, it matters what you do with it. And I think every business is also so nuanced. like getting to know the ins and outs of your business, your operation model, what works for you versus Leslie Youngblood (10:27) Totally. Mm-hmm. Thank you. Mandana (10:44) versus somebody in a completely different vertical and a completely different skill is really, really important. Leslie Youngblood (10:48) Yeah. Right. Yeah. Everybody, every situation, every business owner is from day to day is completely unique. like you said, that's why it's difficult. That's why it's not for the faint of heart. But one of those things, right? How do you personally keep your business financially healthy without getting overwhelmed by the numbers, Mandana? Mandana (10:58) Yeah. really isn't. It really isn't. Yeah. Ooh. You know, I think it's impossible to not get overwhelmed by the numbers. That's the nature of being an entrepreneur, I think. But I think I've built a system and maybe an infrastructure that works for me and my business. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (11:32) Mm-hmm. Mandana (11:32) I do of course have an expert accountant, people that I can reach out to, people that help me make good decisions, but I stay very close and I actually make all the financial decisions of the company myself. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (11:45) Mm-hmm. Mandana (11:46) I don't like surprises in business. I think the closer you are to, know, where do I want to make an investment? What does that look like from people's side? Tools, subscriptions, events, sponsorships, alignments. Like there's so many pieces to how a business Leslie Youngblood (11:48) Sure, yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mandana (12:05) functions financially. And it's really hard because you have to have priorities and you have to see what works and what doesn't work. ⁓ But I think it's almost like what we said, like really understanding the nuances of your business and building something that works for you. It may not be forever, right? Like that infrastructure has been working for now. If things change in the next few months, the next few years, you'll kind of have to change with that. Leslie Youngblood (12:06) Okay. Mm-hmm. bright. course. Mandana (12:33) But I think, yeah, there's definitely moments where I feel overwhelmed too. Leslie Youngblood (12:37) Was there a moment in terms of financial uncertainty that almost made you walk away and what made you pull through? Well, that's good to know. Mandana (12:45) No. No. I think the no is probably kind of multifaceted. think one, I've never been a money motivated individual. So I didn't start Peony with. very financially driven motives, right? So I think that, and there have been really hard times. I'm not saying there haven't been hard times. I'm saying it didn't make me walk away. I think it, because it reminds me, or I remind myself of why did we do this? Why did we start this? And it kind of brings it back to the core of your ambition. Money is a big part of it, yeah. But I didn't start it Leslie Youngblood (13:06) I'm gonna miss. rain. Mm-hmm. Mandana (13:32) for that particular reason. I think I'm also an eternal optimist, and maybe that's sometimes my weakness, but I think in tough times, that's what got me through, like the feeling that there's something bigger here than the next few weeks or months that may be tough. So it's worth fighting for, it's worth pivoting, it's worth doing all the things that it takes so that, you know, the mission can continue and money will come with it. Leslie Youngblood (13:40) Thank Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I love that. I think that's why some, you you oftentimes hear what's your mission or, you know, what's the thing that what you're driving for, right? Because if it's money, it's not going to get you through those hard times, right? Like because there's going to be times where you're leaner and times where you're more flush. It's again, the nature of the business, whether you're just starting out or have been in business for 10 plus years, right? So. Mandana (14:14) Yeah. It's called Shula. Yeah. Especially in professional services industry, you know, like it's not a tangible product that you have on the shelf. It's very much cyclical, it's seasonal, it's driven by so many factors and you get better at seeing those patterns and understanding those moments that may be difficult. ⁓ But yeah, I think it's really important. Leslie Youngblood (14:31) Mmm. year. Right, for sure. Is there any advice or from your experience that you would recommend to how founders can simplify finance instead of letting it stop and overwhelm them? Mandana (15:06) You know, I think, like I said earlier, like you probably don't need to be an expert in it to start, but you need to like really understand the fundamentals, sorry, the basics. One second. And I think one of the things that may be good advice is to really be thoughtful about minimizing your investment when you first start. Leslie Youngblood (15:11) Thank Thank Hmm. ⁓ Mandana (15:31) I think part of that entrepreneurial journey is truly embracing the fact that you do have to be a Swiss army knife. The worst thing you can do is to start investing in everything that you need, whether it's legal, finance, tools. Leslie Youngblood (15:40) Yeah. real estate. Mandana (15:56) real estate products. And so the more resourceful that you are, the more you can take on the things. I mean, in beginning I did so much. I mean, I was like learning coding and writing contracts. But I also think access to information is now easier than ever before in the history of... Leslie Youngblood (16:10) Sure, yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Mandana (16:20) humankind. So go for it, you know. ⁓ I think being resourceful, think leaning on Leslie Youngblood (16:21) world. Mandana (16:27) Even books, people, communities. I mean, you'd be amazed at how much podcasts. Yes. Instructional videos. There's so many ways of trying to figure something out that you may not know on the spot. And then be thoughtful. Then you realize, okay, I do need to invest in this particular tool or I do need to subscribe to this particular thing or have a really great financial advice. Leslie Youngblood (16:31) Podcast. and. Mm-hmm. Mandana (16:57) or legal counsel. And I think those are probably the decisions that will determine the faith of the business in those early days. Leslie Youngblood (16:58) Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I'd love to hear if there was ever an instance where you had a gut feeling about a financial decision and you either didn't listen to your gut or you did listen to your gut mandana. Because I think, women and everybody, should be... Mandana (17:20) Thank Leslie Youngblood (17:25) feeling guided or right or like we ignore our guts or we trusted our gut and this is what happened. And so I would love to hear if there was ever something like related to the financial decisions with your business ⁓ in your experience there. Mandana (17:37) I think, so one, I'm a big, I always say I'm a big field person in general. I really do believe in trusting your intuition and letting it guide you. I don't think you can make decisions solely on that, but I think it has a big impact on how I weigh my options in general, not in business, but in life. ⁓ With Peony, I think, Leslie Youngblood (17:49) Mm-hmm. Mandana (18:03) One of more than once, I probably said no to new business because even when we were desperate, even in really, really tough months that, you know, we could have taken it on and we should have from a business quote unquote perspective. But I felt that either the values weren't aligned with that company or I didn't want my brand to be associated with that style or that. Leslie Youngblood (18:18) I'm good. Mm. ⁓ Mandana (18:30) type of culture or people, I think your business becomes your baby a little bit. And so you become protective of it. And I think that's also the beauty and the magic of small independently owned businesses is that the decisions that we're making is not for shareholders. The decisions that we're making aren't there to make ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (18:36) Uh-huh, sure. us. Mmm. Mandana (18:58) kind of like people happy because of a financial agreement in place, I'm making decisions to bring in business that I'm proud to be a part of. And yeah, I love that I'm also making money doing it. I think when you, I hope that I answered your question, but I feel like when I look back, Leslie Youngblood (19:07) Right. Of course, of course. Mandana (19:18) Yeah, if I didn't have that filter of what is the mission and vision for Peony, I probably would have said yes to those clients. And I know people that would have said yes to them. I'm happy that I didn't. One of them actually later on went on to have a really bad reputation as an agency. So maybe there was a little bit of that ⁓ feeling. Yeah. So I think those are a couple of things that I can think of that. Leslie Youngblood (19:30) Mm-hmm. ⁓ mm-hmm. Elitity. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mandana (19:45) you know, definitely leaned more with the gut feeling. Leslie Youngblood (19:45) Yeah. Yeah, and that I think, those are the hardest decisions, I think, right? Because you're like, oh, that money, we could do X, Y, and Z. Yeah, that would keep us our lights on for X number of days or allow us to help this many people or. Mandana (19:52) really are. Not money! Leslie Youngblood (20:03) But when you just have that gut feeling, I think that's really tough when you are tested in that leadership. And you have to be the one to make that decision too as the leader. have people counting on you. And you want to do right by them. But you also want to do right by you. And you want to do right by what you believe in and the values that the business stands for. And that is fucking tough to make those types of choices. Mandana (20:14) Yeah. Really? Yes! ⁓ It really is. Yeah, it really is. And I think maybe later on in hindsight, when you look at it, you feel good about it. But in that moment, it's really tough. It really is tough. And you question everything. I a business woman? Am I making the right choices? Am I making the right decisions? Doesn't everybody take on things that they don't love? I I would ask myself that, you know, I'm sure people have done this. Why can't I? And so, but I think ultimately you come down Leslie Youngblood (20:37) Yeah. Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yes! ⁓ Mandana (21:00) to your personal and maybe professional values and if that's something that you're leading with. Again, nothing wrong with having a different model, but I think you stay true to the oath that you've taken, you know, for yourself, to yourself, and I think that was important to me. Leslie Youngblood (21:05) Mm-hmm. Sure. Right, Yeah, no, I think that's amazing. And anybody listening that has got going through that or will one day go through that know that you need to trust yourself. And it's not it's going to suck. It's going to suck real bad. But it's going to be OK. And something else will come along that is right. And Mandana (21:27) That's kind of funny. Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (21:35) what more well suited for you and your business as well as yourself personally. So I wanna pivot now to talk about the rebuild you avoid, Mandana. And when we talked previously, I thought this was so fascinating and so important. You share that you feel like you've rebuilt PNE talent four different times. Can you talk about that and even like one of those moments? Mandana (22:00) Yeah. Leslie Youngblood (22:00) where you knew a rebuild was necessary. Because again, we think we start this business, it's going to be, we start a cupcake business. We're going to be making cupcakes the whole time of the business, right? And in five years, you might be making slushies or something, not even cupcakes. So I would just so much love for you to talk a little bit about this. Mandana (22:08) What? You know, I think it's really interesting. And one, I'll be the first to say that I never thought that I had an entrepreneurial bone in my body. I never thought I wanted to do anything on my own. In fact, I thought people were crazy to start their own business. I'd be like, what? You go to work and you get a paycheck and you have a great time. Like, what more do I want from life? ⁓ So I think... Leslie Youngblood (22:35) I'm Amazing. Mandana (22:46) I don't know, maybe my perspective is a little bit different. think when I think of Peony, I have built it a few different times. think once I built it in my head, conceptually, right? Like you really, for months, for months, I would be behind my desk at my job, but up here was all Peony. was, you you're building it. How does this look like? What does it want to do? How does it function? How do I... Leslie Youngblood (22:55) Mmm. ⁓ Mandana (23:12) you know, operate it, like all the things that you think about, the dream side of it, the conceptual side of really starting that business. That's number one, the first time I built it. I think the second time I built it is the actual moment where it's a thing out in the world. Now people are looking at you. Now, you you're looking for clients, you're talking to the media. And so it really is. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (23:16) . Sure. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mandana (23:40) game time, like you have to be able to like operate and go with it and you know, all the things that you promise have to, you have to show for it. ⁓ I think that was the second time and there's definitely moments where you're like, ⁓ shit, I didn't think of that or ⁓ I don't have that thing prepared. So it's a little bit of a build as you go phase of that build. Leslie Youngblood (23:50) Mm-hmm. years. Mmm. Mandana (24:05) I think the third time that I built it was when the lockdown happened, March 15, COVID. We were just coming up to a year mark almost, and the wheels were just starting to turn, and things were getting good. And I think 90 % of our clients went into a hiring freeze overnight. Leslie Youngblood (24:09) ⁓ sure. So. No. Sure. Mandana (24:27) So that was really tough. like, there were definitely moments, I know the whole world was on the edge of like not knowing what's next. But I think for me personally, I kept thinking like, what have I done? Like, this is never gonna work. People are never gonna go back to work. And so, so I think that was definitely a very tough three to four months of really figuring out what the world looks like and how does my tiny little business fit Leslie Youngblood (24:33) Mm-hmm. Right? ⁓ Mandana (24:56) into how does it fit into this world that is kind of going mad. The fourth time was in 2023. 2023 was a really tough year for advertising as. Leslie Youngblood (24:59) Mm-hmm. Yes. ⁓ Mandana (25:08) whole as a whole. Right. And that it was a really tough year for us financially, emotionally, just kind of realizing that, you know, there isn't much happening. There isn't there's a lot of layoffs. There's a lot of like supply and demand are not equal. What do they need us for? And I think that was probably the most strategic of ⁓ the rebuilds is really the realization that Leslie Youngblood (25:27) Mmm. Mandana (25:36) You know, where do I see, where do we see traction? Who are the people that are still hiring? Are there verticals and categories that are doing better even within advertising? And they were, there were. we just had to, I learned my lesson of. Leslie Youngblood (25:39) Mm-hmm. Mm. Mandana (25:51) not waiting for clients that aren't ready to hire, right? Like love them, do great work with them. But if they're not in a position to be able to do it, we have to be able to kind of forge ahead and, you know, find new clients, find new categories. And so I think that was a really strategic pivot in terms of probably the comfort zone, like getting out of the comfort zone of. Leslie Youngblood (26:05) Right. in. Bye. Mandana (26:16) the people that we knew and worked with and did great work with to really getting out there and ⁓ finding new relationships and building new relationships and really being a partner to maybe the verticals that had more going for them at the time. Leslie Youngblood (26:32) Yeah, yeah. Why do you think so many founders resist rebuilding even when they know it's needed? Mandana (26:40) Oof. I mean, you said it, it's not for the faint of heart. But I think rebuilding is change and change is scary. ⁓ I think it kind of sometimes, ⁓ you know, it feels like you're making that delicious batch of cookies and you've followed the recipe and Leslie Youngblood (26:44) Yeah, all comes back to that, right? Hmm. Hmm. Mandana (27:06) maybe even told your friends to come over and everybody's waiting for the cookies to come out of the oven and you open the oven and it's, they didn't rise or the edges are burnt and like, I've been there, you've been there. You know what it feels like when you open and you're like, God damn it, this didn't work. And so, ⁓ so I think that that feeling of the cookies not, you know. Leslie Youngblood (27:15) Right. Yeah. no. Hmm. Mandana (27:32) being what you had envisioned and all the things that you put into it. Most people walk away, they'll be like, okay, you that was that. I think some will move on to the next batch. You know, let's give this another go. What was wrong? Was it the recipe? Was it the temperature? What adjustment do I need to make? ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (27:36) Yeah. Okay. Mandana (27:52) And I think it's exactly that. think it's, you know, you're not giving up on cookie making. You just need to make little adjustments that allow this thing to go on. ⁓ But it can be soul crushing. It affects you. And I think that's probably why a lot of people are resistant to wanting to change or rebuild. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (27:57) Bye. Yeah. Yeah. Sure, we take it personally when really it, we shouldn't do that. It's not an inherent reflection of who you are as a person, right? It's again, just part of the game of business. And what I would do with the burnt cookies, you could like. Mandana (28:20) So true. Yeah. I'm going to Leslie Youngblood (28:31) break them up into little tiny pieces, put them on top of ice cream, and then suddenly you're making ice cream sundaes, which everybody loves, right? Like, what are you doing with that, right? And if you look at any, again, like I think sometimes we get so hyper-focused, right, on what we have planned and anything that throws us off the plan, with businesses like Life, right? But if you think about any successful business, you know, whether it's Spanx, right, and like they started off with undergarments, now they're doing Mandana (28:38) do something with it. Leslie Youngblood (29:01) Then they moved into clothing and in leggings and now they're doing she's now doing shoes right and so it's like Mandana (29:03) Thank Leslie Youngblood (29:10) the change is going to happen, whether you embrace it or not. like the consumer changes, the world changes, right? Whether you have no control. So how are you going to continue to ride that out and optimize it? Because it doesn't mean you should shut down your business and like, and just stop, right? Like you need to realize that the rebuilding is just part of the process. Mandana (29:31) Yeah. So true. Another peaceful moment. Leslie Youngblood (29:37) It's painful. Another painful thing about your business. But it's great. Everybody listening, please start your business or keep working on your business. Yeah, keep making those cookies, baby. How do you think, Montana, how do you rebuild without feeling like you failed? Or like, fighting those feelings? Yeah? Mandana (29:46) Continue baking cookies. ⁓ I think exactly what you said, like not taking it personally, you know, this isn't about you. mean, yeah, you're a player in it. ⁓ But I think, yeah, I think it really is a product of ⁓ running a business. think scientific people do a really great job of rebuilding. They're really open to Leslie Youngblood (30:07) Mm-hmm. Thank Mandana (30:23) the idea and the notion of iteration as a whole. That's why like you look at technology companies, you look at the scientific community as a whole, they're really open to, this didn't work, that's okay, we'll do that. I think social science people like me are very deep about it. Leslie Youngblood (30:27) Yeah. Yes. Thank you. Mm-hmm. Mandana (30:44) You know, we kind of internalize it a little bit more. We even complicate it at times where in reality, everything that we do is iterative. It has to be for it to work. So yeah, I think not taking it personally and maybe just keeping an open mind from the get-go will be helpful. Leslie Youngblood (30:47) and Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. And like you said, being optimistic. You're an optimistic person that the Lulu, mean, listen, the Lulu serves you, so you need to keep it going. How do you balance that, you your pivoting business is going to change? How do you balance staying true to your original mission while still evolving with the market mandana? Mandana (31:04) to next day. Yes. It really does. Yeah. that's probably my favorite exercise. think, I think for people and for businesses that truly have a mission, it sort of becomes the filter through which you make every decision that you make, right? Like going back to the earlier example of, sorry, I've had a really bad. Leslie Youngblood (31:27) Love it. Mm-hmm. ⁓ problem. You can drink it's allowed. I almost wish it wasn't water, Mandana. cocktail in there. Mandana (31:49) That's a lot of water, promise. Yeah, think if you continue making every decision through that lens, it guides you in ways that you probably didn't even expect yourself. It's really hard. I think as you mentioned, market changes, your competitive landscape changes, you so you constantly have to evolve. Leslie Youngblood (32:10) Mm-hmm. Mandana (32:21) I think the methods with which you evolve can evolve. ⁓ But I think you have to stay true to your North Star a little bit. ⁓ Otherwise you get pulled into so many different directions. You, I don't know, this feeling of wanting to mean everything to everyone, to sell everything to everyone, like an agency's fallen into that. Leslie Youngblood (32:25) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mandana (32:45) category quite a bit. So it's also my job to help my clients stay true to their mission, like a huge part of it. But I think for me, I truly do remind myself of what are some of the things, like if I'm making a decision, how does this align to the four pillars that I care about? ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (32:50) Sure. Mm-hmm. is really good. Mandana (33:09) Does it match up? Does it have a way of evolving that relationship so it can better be aligned? That's the other thing is that you don't immediately have to say no. Leslie Youngblood (33:18) brain. Mandana (33:19) you can have a conversation and see if there are opportunities for better alignment so that you're not compromising on your values and the work can still get done too. And yeah, there are great examples of that too. ⁓ But I think it's really important and I encourage people, if people are listening, I encourage them to take it a little bit more seriously. Don't have values just to put on. your website or talk about it. Live it because it's empowering and it makes you feel good about the decisions that you make. Leslie Youngblood (33:45) Mmm. ⁓ Mm-hmm, yeah, I love that, so important. Now, Mandana, if you could go back to the version of yourself that was scared of the money or scared of the rebuild, what would you tell her today? Mandana (34:04) that maybe the reward is ⁓ worth the hassle. Yeah, think it's amazing to think, or I would tell her that you will feel good about the impact that this business has had on the industry as a whole. Leslie Youngblood (34:11) I love that. Mm. Mandana (34:27) on people's lives. Somebody goes home and tells their family, like, I got the job. That's a big moment. Like, I've cried. I still get kind of... Yeah, it really is amazing to be a part of that journey with someone. But I think it's also incredible to see the impact that it has on organizations' success. It means the world to me when an agency president calls me and says, we won the pitch because we had three of your people in the pitch room and we couldn't have done that. Or that this department is winning X number of awards because of how we built it together. ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (35:00) Yeah. I'm moving. Mandana (35:09) Those are really amazing moments and you can't put a price on it, right? ⁓ And maybe in the early days, I didn't even feel what this would feel like. So maybe I would tell myself that it's worth it because there are some things that are really, really amazing. Leslie Youngblood (35:19) Yeah. I love that. And then what's one thing you would challenge every woman listening to do today, whether it's facing a financial fear or taking the first step towards a necessary rebuild? Mandana (35:38) I think one of the greatest lessons that I've learned myself is like active learning. It's keyword being active. think when you're in business, whether you're starting, you're thinking about it, you're running it. we wait for things to come to us, but if you're actively seeking it, actively learning, ⁓ Leslie Youngblood (35:45) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ⁓ Mandana (36:01) It puts you on a completely different trajectory. And maybe my biggest advice is don't wait for it to be handed to you because nobody's going to do it. You got to go get it yourself. And I think that active learning and really leaning into, you know, the unknown, the moments that you may feel vulnerable or, you know, intimidated, lean into it because that's the only way you can get past it. Leslie Youngblood (36:09) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. love that and you will get past it, right? Everybody gets past it. It's temporary. Mandana (36:31) Yes, everybody does. It's law of nature. Of course you do. Leslie Youngblood (36:35) Exactly. It's just the way it is. So do it, join us, do it, be, be who you want to be. Right? Cause like you said, nobody's going to hand it to you. It's up to you. And that is the, the blessing and the curse of it is that it's all you, baby. Exactly. I love that. That's amazing. Well, Mandana, as we wrap up today, would love for you to share where our listeners can find you outside of the podcast here. Mandana (36:52) It really is. really is. Bet on yourself. You won't be disappointed. ⁓ I mean... LinkedIn, I love LinkedIn just because it's more interactive so they can find me and connect with me on LinkedIn. ⁓ Our website is ⁓ www.pnetalent.com. You'll have all of our social handles on there so I don't need to share that, but I love it. mean, people reach out and I have so much fun just getting to ⁓ hear about, I'm a people person. I love getting to know people's stories. So if there's a way for us to be connected, I welcomed that very much. Leslie Youngblood (37:38) Well, we loved getting to learn your story today, Mandana. Thank you so much for joining us and sharing your journey, your expertise, and it was fantastic. And I know that there is so much value in the conversation that you shared today, the money and the rebuild. Don't fear the money. You're going to have to rebuild. These are two truths that nobody talks about. Mandana (37:42) Thank you. Leslie Youngblood (38:02) they're going to happen and it's going to be okay. So thank you so much for joining and sharing with us today. Mandana (38:08) Thank you. Of course. No, thank you for having me. It's been so much fun. I love what you're doing. I think it's so important to have these conversations. And I truly am grateful to be a part of your wonderful series today. So thank you. Thank you. Leslie Youngblood (38:26) Thank you, Mandana. That's all we have for today, listeners. See you next time on Serious Lady Business.