Latest / Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast / 1997's Shawshank Redemption

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1997's Shawshank Redemption · Off The Shelf With Phil and Dave- A Movie Review Podcast

0:01
Hello and welcome to Off the Shelf with Phil and Dave, the
0:06
movie talk show where each week one of us takes the movie off
0:09
our shelf, presents it to the other end, discusses it at
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blank. This week, we've got coming off
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of Dave's Shelf, 1994's Shawshank Redemption, written
0:27
directed by Frank Darabont, starring Tim Robbins, Morgan
0:30
Freeman, William Sadler and shot by Roger Deakins.
0:35
Yes, we'll get into all that in a second here.
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David, welcome back to the couch.
0:39
Thank you. I appreciate it.
0:42
How you doing and why this movie and why now?
0:45
I'm doing relatively well, relatively great.
0:48
Feel like we're in the dog days of summer.
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Sure, absolutely. Very hot, very sticky.
0:53
Sticky hot. Yeah, Yeah.
0:54
It's like a real dog. Day afternoon.
0:56
Available, of course, in the archives.
0:58
That's a desperate. Check it out please.
1:01
And you asked me a couple questions and I'm gonna go into
1:03
detail. Get in there.
1:04
Right. Yeah, absolutely, Digger.
1:06
I have some history on this movie, Philip.
1:08
OK, surprisingly, First, I think you probably asked again.
1:12
I wasn't listening. I'm assuming you ask the same
1:14
questions as you usually do. I'm.
1:15
Trying to follow the script the why?
1:17
And the why now? Yes, very similar questions,
1:19
sometimes very similar answers. Sometimes no answers.
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Sometimes no answers, just why not the why is I recently, as
1:29
you know, went to Kingston Truth, Ontario, Canada, not
1:35
Jamaica. There's a Kingston and Jamaica.
1:37
Yes, there is where they have a famously known Kingston
1:41
penitentiary in Kingston is famous I would say in Canada.
1:46
Actually. I went on the tour, which is the
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why and almost the why now, not why now.
1:52
That's the why because that was about 3 weeks ago.
1:54
Yeah. So that triggered it got you
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went on the tour. More interesting that I would
1:58
have thought it would be pretty cool stories about some escapes,
2:02
which was sort of neat, but they had people from all over the
2:06
world come on this tour. Oh yeah, sure.
2:08
So it's a big thing. Yeah.
2:09
So you should do it. I will if you sorry.
2:12
I made the assumption you hadn't taken the tour.
2:14
I want to apologize, right? Here I've only been in Kingston,
2:16
I think, twice in my life. Really, it's lovely.
2:18
Wolf Island, great place. Just put on some sunscreen.
2:21
That's the key, That's the take away.
2:22
That's the monthly sort of take away as I continue to suffer.
2:28
But the why now? Phil Wyatt, this moment, I could
2:30
have done it a couple weeks ago. I had the knowledge, but I went
2:32
with JP one and two. No regrets, No regrets.
2:39
But we're back into some single hits.
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Yes, last week you brought out one, flew over the Coco's nest.
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I almost said that, right? Almost.
2:48
You're really close, really close, and it's cuckoo, A
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cuckoo, a cuckoo. And a reference they made in the
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movie. Not actually, sorry, not in the
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movie, but in the the literature in which I read afterwards was
3:00
it gave it more of a absolutely, but they gave the set more of a
3:07
prison feel versus a hospital in some people's opinions.
3:12
I'm not sure where you landed on that.
3:14
I don't know if we discussed it or I mean, it looks like a
3:16
hospital ward with chains on, you know, bars on the windows,
3:19
but it looked like a hospital ward.
3:21
Regardless where I was. I got triggered to finally bring
3:24
out Shawshank Redemption for those reasons.
3:28
Heavy hitter. Yeah, sure.
3:30
Number one on the IMDb of all time, which you put no stock
3:33
into. I put no stock whatsoever.
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So you probably hate this movie. It's been up there for a long
3:37
time. It's it's been up there.
3:39
Yeah. So we're talking 9.3 for the 1
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rating and 82 for the other. If if you're interested in
3:44
knowing. Not really, but I want to know
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at least me your history with this blockbuster film from 1994.
3:52
I would first disabuse you of the notion that it was a
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blockbuster. This was a financial bomb.
3:59
Oh. Yes, you're right, not a hit
4:00
whatsoever. That's.
4:02
True and ultimately garnered 7 Academy Award nominations.
4:06
That seems like a lot. Certainly, however, it won
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01984. Pretty impressive year at the
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year Forrest Gump. Year 9484.
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That's a 94. OK, check the tape.
4:20
If not I did now. Yeah.
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The year Forrest Gump, Pulp Fiction, Bullets Over Broadway,
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Ed Wood was a great great year for movies. 1994 I don't.
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Know what I wrote? Some other ones, a little lesser
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known, talk to me. Junior.
4:36
Oh, yes, disclosure. Oh yeah, yeah, the client.
4:39
I enjoyed disclosure. I think you asked about that 14
4:42
year old Phil. Yeah, yeah.
4:43
And probably, probably another prison movie.
4:46
Oh, you're talking about against the wall, against the.
4:49
Wall Epic, Epic film. No one's ever heard of this
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movie. No.
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It happens. To start, Kyle McLaughlin and
4:57
Sammy J. Sammy J.
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So there you go. TV movie was it?
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I think it's a TV movie. I guess you're safe.
5:03
It won't come off the shelf. I'm not allowed to.
5:06
No, had your fun. Can't do it.
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But yeah, so I didn't realize it was that strong of a year.
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When it comes to our archives, Clear and Present Danger is the
5:13
one I put at the top of the list.
5:15
OK, Because you remember that movie.
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Yes, I did. I did remember details.
5:18
Try. To bring it up every week yeah,
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yeah, it's. The only one I got.
5:21
Yeah. So my history, This movie I've
5:23
watched at least a dozen times back in the day.
5:25
Theatre. Never know.
5:27
So you're amongst most people then?
5:29
Yeah, it just came and went. It was not a thing.
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But this was prime cable time, prime black box time, and so
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just on repeat all day long. So I would just catch glimpses
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of it. And I loved it.
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And it was, at the time kind of a bit of a revelation about
5:46
Frank Darabont, because I was familiar with him as a writer
5:52
typically because he wrote the BLOB remake in 87 and wrote
5:59
Night Nightmare Part 3, which is, you know, I'm, I was a huge
6:02
fan of. Yeah, I did.
6:03
I did notice. That in Israel, his library,
6:05
that's right. I think I got them sort of mixed
6:07
up because usually when when you click on director, it goes into
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well known as and then into the director.
6:13
But it started with the writing. And I took me a moment.
6:16
Oh, this guy is like a dual threat.
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I don't know if he's always doing the both projects like
6:21
he's writing and directing the same thing or just writes these,
6:23
directs these, I think. He started his career more as a
6:26
writer and then I think he became a writer director.
6:29
That's an upgrade. And then I think because he's
6:31
moved into television, I think he ends up doing more directing
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than writing. So still active.
6:36
I think he is doing that one. Everyone loves perfect
6:39
strangers. Stranger Things.
6:41
Stranger Things guys doing 2 episodes of that this season.
6:43
Yeah, he ended up getting a nasty lawsuit with AMC about The
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Walking Dead. Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
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And he just wasn't working. Like, you know, this guy made
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Academy Award with this movie. Didn't make any money, but 7
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Academy Award and #1 on the IMDb chart.
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Directed The Green Mile wrote it as well.
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Based on a Stephen King novel. Set series of novels as is this.
7:04
Yes, that's true. The Majestic, which another one
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wasn't really a big hit. But 2001, yeah, I enjoyed that
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one. Yeah, there you go.
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But so he's a guy that's made in the mist, which I really like.
7:14
Elements. Of is it thick?
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It's pretty thick. OK.
7:18
Do you think Miss? If I'm going to watch a movie
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called The Miss, I want it to be thick.
7:20
It's pretty thick. It's also a Stephen King story.
7:22
Anyway, he branched out into this Walking Dead thing, which
7:24
became a phenomenon, and he just got kind of screwed out of that.
7:27
Is it his fault or? I'm not sure.
7:29
I think I don't know the whole story.
7:30
I just know that he like kind of put a kibosh on his career.
7:33
Well, I'm sure there's two truths to it.
7:35
Of course, but I think he's a great film maker, a very good
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writer, and he's a great audio commentator If you have the Blu
7:43
rays or check him out because he's he's got a great commentary
7:46
for all his. Movies.
7:47
Well, my priority is to watch the limited series reigns one
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season. OK.
7:52
Very limited starring Jeff Goldblum, and my guess is it
7:55
only lasted one season because he was the lead.
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There you go. Couldn't carry it, couldn't
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carry it. He probably did a West Wing
8:01
episode. I don't.
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Know he didn't. OK, It's worth noting as well
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that this is a rare opportunity I get to do this.
8:06
But I wonder, did you catch the Seinfeld reference 13 near the
8:10
beginning of this movie? Near the How early on are you
8:13
talking here? I am talking my friend about the
8:16
old Castle Rock logo. That's right at the beginning.
8:20
Yeah, yeah. And I thought, you know, Dave's
8:22
probably going to miss this. He's not going to.
8:24
He couldn't possibly guess. This is the Seinfeld, right?
8:27
That's funny. I didn't.
8:30
I was focused on how boring Castle Rock was compared to
8:33
Universal from Jurassic Park. Yes, yes, yes.
8:36
But funny you mentioned that there are not one, not 2, not 3,
8:40
but 4 minimum people who have been in Seinfeld in this movie.
8:46
Four wow at. Least if I dug and that's not
8:49
really my area. That's you thing.
8:51
That's a grant thing. Yeah, and I'm not going to sit
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there and spend a lot of time on a fill.
8:57
It's noteworthy, like you said at the beginning of this little
9:00
spiel here. I'll save it to the end.
9:02
I'll let you know when the last one comes in.
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OK, That's it. I'm.
9:05
I'm not going to. The audience is waiting with
9:06
baited. And there's a few other two.
9:09
There's a Star Trek Next Generation.
9:11
There's a Roseanne. This is star-studded with TV
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actors from the 90s, which pleases.
9:16
Me. Oh yeah, That's at your
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wheelhouse, Yeah. If I don't like the movie, at
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least I have that, you know what I mean?
9:22
That's worth going back to the well, yes, for sure.
9:24
You could watch them make other do other movies.
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Yes, makes sense. Well, now that we have an idea
9:30
of who's in it, who's who of it's the writer, the director,
9:34
all of it. Phil, what's the movie actually
9:36
about? Share it well.
9:39
Checking in with Old Faithful, here we have a banker convicted
9:43
of Oxercide forms a friendship over 1/4 century with a hardened
9:47
convict while maintaining his innocence and trying to remain
9:51
hopeful through simple compassion.
9:54
Don't love it. It's questionable.
9:56
Hey, there's a word in there I don't even know.
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It's a double homicide where I come from.
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Oxercide. I think it's maybe killing your
10:03
wife, Killing your spouse. And their lover, maybe.
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I don't know if it has specifically to do with the
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multiples, I think it's more so. You know what?
10:10
I read this earlier. I had an opportunity to look up
10:12
that word. I chose not to.
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Interesting. Yeah, you'll dig for Seinfeld.
10:15
But not but the words. Not for words last couple weeks,
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not maybe last week, but a couple weeks before.
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You're a little bit on and off with how exposition was being
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delivered. It gives us about 7 minutes
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worth, give or take. I didn't have the stopwatch.
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I'm not the kind of guy. I'm not a stopwatch guy.
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I know it's 1947, big year for murders.
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Oh yes, big, big years for that one.
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But he allegedly killed his wife who had cheated on him with a
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golf pro. Golf pro, Yes, I can relate.
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You're a golfer. Partially I got the golfer part,
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not the pro part. Not very good, yes.
11:02
And then we have a nice little courtroom scene.
11:04
Yeah, starring the wonderful Jeffrey De Mun.
11:09
Oh, who's that? If it's the lawyer, the DA OK
11:13
prosecuting Andy Dufrane here and he's in every Frank Darabon
11:17
project. There you go.
11:19
He's in every one of them. I'll everything you directed
11:22
anyway. Yeah, OK.
11:23
Because you claim Wong was in all the Jurassic.
11:25
Parks and I don't think he's in most check it out.
11:28
I will dig around for that one, buddy.
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Yeah, I think it's just a great scene because it does lay out
11:34
the the exposition. I think it does it, you know,
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anytime you can make it contextual and natural, whether
11:40
it be conversation or Dino DNA and sort of a ride, you have an
11:45
opportunity to change the dynamic so that you're getting
11:48
the information without feeling like you're being spoon fed the
11:50
information. And by putting him on trial and
11:53
discussing the circumstances around it, with the flashbacks
11:55
cutting in back and forth, explain the severity of what
11:58
this is, then it really does matter who we think he.
12:02
Is. Yes, exactly.
12:03
And who the audience thinks he is, Who the characters also
12:09
think you're right. And in IMED, if you read a
12:11
couple more of those, sort of Synopsi 1 indicated right off
12:15
the bat that he's innocent. Oh, OK.
12:19
But you're talking about sharing what the information in real
12:22
time? Yeah, in real time with the
12:23
audience. What we're supposed to think of
12:25
him? We've seen him drinking, we're
12:26
seeing him in the middle of the Yeah thing, and now he's talking
12:29
about what's the great line? 8 bullets. 6 would be almost
12:34
condoned. Yes, exactly.
12:36
I would. That makes sense.
12:37
No big deal. Totally fine by the DA standard,
12:40
but eight? You reloaded, you're an animal.
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That was it. That was enough for the judge.
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That's it right there. So I think it's designed for us
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to have a little bit of doubt at least.
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I'm talking 3040 percent, 50% split.
12:54
Even if he's guilty or not. Yeah, more importantly, I think
12:57
it also shows his lack of personality.
13:02
Yes. Right.
13:03
And so you're watching this sort of dehumanized, almost
13:05
character, and that's sticks with him forever, like
13:09
throughout most of the movie, right?
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He glides around, he floats around.
13:12
Nobody really. He's a banker.
13:13
Yeah, but he's also the guy that, you know, I think they
13:16
they muttered something at some point.
13:18
Like how do you just sit there and you know you you murdered
13:21
your wife or you didn't and you're just taking it right,
13:23
like. Do you think Harrison Ford did
13:25
it better in The Fugitive? You find that man.
13:28
You find this man. They didn't buy it.
13:30
No, they didn't buy it either, but it worked out well for him.
13:32
They found the man. They did.
13:33
Yeah. Yeah, One arm and all they.
13:35
Found the man for this one too. That's true.
13:36
They absolutely didn't matter. Exactly.
13:38
Yeah. Didn't take.
13:39
So we've kind of met Andy and that sort of sets him up as
13:42
being this guy, right? Like we just talked about.
13:44
Now, what follows is, again, we're only less than 8 minutes
13:49
into the movie, which I think is very effective and pretty
13:51
streamlined. You don't.
13:51
Want to waste time getting Morgan on this?
13:53
But we get to meet Morgan Freeman's character and in the
13:57
setting of a parole hearing, which we've experienced in
14:00
Ocean's 11, if you recall. Of course, she won't leave me
14:04
again. But here's the scene where he
14:08
gets rejected. He's kind of given the same
14:10
answers. Yeah.
14:10
That's the idea. Totally rehabilitated.
14:12
He's done this speech before. Exactly.
14:14
Yeah. Everything is very performative.
14:16
And big stamp. Big stamp of rejected.
14:19
Yeah. We're going to talk about stamps
14:20
later, OK, OK. Yeah.
14:22
Can't wait. Yeah, gotta keep the audience on
14:26
board here. Absolutely sponsored by
14:27
stamps.com. But yeah, and so with that we
14:31
also get Red's voice over introducing the bus and whatnot.
14:34
Coming in as the bus is coming. What I think is the shot of the
14:39
movie. There's so many good ones, but
14:41
let's. Get it out quick the.
14:42
Opening helicopter shot over the prison, through the courtyard,
14:48
all the way through the bus. You're watching all the people,
14:51
all the prisoners walk and gather.
14:53
The scope of that. There's just nobody better with
14:55
a camera than Roger Deakins. Roger Deakins, we've.
14:57
Talked about him before, as you know, of course.
14:59
Yeah, I think I have one of his on my shelf because you know me,
15:01
I'm a man of good taste. Absolutely, absolutely.
15:04
Dezniff 1917. Let's try to put French for some
15:08
reason, just not to bother show off.
15:11
And yeah, that's very unique. Yeah, also a Blade Runner 2049,
15:15
a local favorite. Yeah, yeah.
15:17
Villeneuve, yeah. He seems to have some talent.
15:19
I always wonder how they get those shots.
15:21
And I'm, I'm really amazed by it.
15:23
Just like the logistics of it, like getting the people, getting
15:25
the the setting. It's not Kingston, Penn.
15:27
They didn't film it there. No, I know I would have
15:29
recognized it. Part of the tour.
15:32
Exactly. Here's the whole Yeah, it's a
15:34
beautiful, beautiful shot. The bus comes in.
15:36
Yes. And we have a few of the
15:38
prisoners come off. Like I said, it was a busy year,
15:40
a busy year for murders. And I thought to myself, if M
15:43
Night Shamalan didn't quite get that right directed this, I
15:48
guarantee half those prisoners wouldn't have looked like
15:50
prisoners this extras. Just extras, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:55
That's that's what you can count on with them.
15:57
Night, A twist and some. Well dressed extras, just people
16:01
pulled off the streets, yeah. Poorly dressed extras issues.
16:04
Yeah, make a few bucks. Yeah, But yeah, it gets us
16:07
inside. Is this a real prison?
16:08
Yes. Where Maine?
16:11
Probably, I don't know. OK, I'll take it.
16:13
Yeah, Say USA all right. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
16:16
Probably the Northeast, OK Nowadays it would be Atlanta.
16:20
Everything in Atlanta. Go Braves.
16:26
We've met our two protagonists, if you will, arguably, and I
16:32
suppose we could pivot now because we we get a brief moment
16:36
where the warden and Hadley, the prison guard, the lead, his
16:41
number one, exactly his Riker, his number one guy, that's a
16:46
Batman 89. Reference Wonderful.
16:48
Very poor. So anyway, you introduce these
16:52
two wardens, talks about how here you'll get discipline and
16:56
you'll get the Bible. That's all you need.
16:58
And he says at the end of that little, little moment, welcome
17:02
to Shasha, to Jurassic Park. And I thought, you know, it
17:05
doesn't have quite the same panache as Richard Attenborough.
17:08
No, that's a good. Sounds pretty good.
17:10
That's like quite the contrast, I would say.
17:12
Have you ever been hosed down in any sort of circumstances in
17:16
your life? Ever.
17:17
Ever. Probably as a child.
17:19
Probably as a child in the backyard.
17:21
Yeah, playing the slip and slides and whatnots.
17:24
Yeah, pretty. I mean, you're a country boy.
17:27
I'm sure you. I had lice.
17:29
So. OK, no I didn't, but I remember
17:31
lice being a thing. Absolutely they would check.
17:34
They didn't hose us down. Oh, my goodness.
17:36
Delousing right? When you walk in the school.
17:38
Is that how they did it in the country?
17:40
I love that lice search. Yeah, I get tingles in my body.
17:44
Really so? Interesting.
17:45
Oh yeah. You ever had a scalp massage?
17:47
Like, it's just not lately. Oh my gosh.
17:49
There's a little back massages lately, but not a head massage.
17:51
Get a head one, it's fantastic. Anyway, chills love it.
17:54
Red during a voice over indicates this is like the worst
17:57
day, hardest night, hardest night.
17:59
They got the powder in their face.
18:01
They've just been hosed down. It's the first night.
18:04
Apparently there's always one that cracks.
18:06
And oddly enough, Red thought Andy was going to be 1 to crack.
18:10
Yeah, but we quickly find out. No, he's solid.
18:14
Yeah, he's Stoic, the guy whose character in this movie, his
18:18
name is Fat Ass. Yeah, in the credits.
18:20
Yeah, I wonder when you're auditioning.
18:23
For. Roles and you.
18:25
I really want that fat ass part, yeah.
18:27
There's like a whole room of. Fat asses outside doing that
18:29
part. Your agent calls, hey, you've
18:32
got a fat ass, there's a part for you here.
18:35
Go and audition. It's kind of dehumanizing.
18:38
It is, especially if you don't get it.
18:39
Yeah, exactly. You're like, I'm not.
18:40
My ass isn't fat enough. Or is it too fat?
18:42
I know exactly. Give me some feedback.
18:44
Yeah, give me. Give me some feedback.
18:46
Some takeaways and some take out.
18:49
Speaking of take out, it's time to have a meal.
18:51
Yeah, we have next day. Yeah, fat ass has been taken.
18:54
Out. He's been taken out.
18:55
He's in rough shape. Infirmary, we assume.
18:58
Yeah. This reminded me of this scene.
19:00
Breakfast. Lunch.
19:01
Not exactly sure. I thought it was breakfast.
19:03
I had not lunch in my notes. It'll be.
19:05
Clear. We know that you love lunch.
19:07
I think I like lunch too. Lunch is the best meal that came
19:09
up one week. The food?
19:10
Yeah, of course. The Hollywood Homicide.
19:12
That was the insider, but anyways.
19:14
What doesn't happen? There's no eggs, and to me it's
19:17
not. Breakfast.
19:18
No eggs. Good call.
19:19
OK, I'm going to give that to you.
19:21
But it did remind me of high school, the cafeteria.
19:25
But like on steroids. Just like I don't know where to
19:28
sit, especially if it's like your first day of high school.
19:31
You. Don't know a lot.
19:33
Of things are up in the air. And it's dangerous.
19:36
So you're like, you know, it's high school with weapons.
19:39
That's the only place I've ever been bullied actually.
19:41
Was the at the entrance of a cafeteria Really, oddly enough,
19:44
interesting. Yeah, I got a punch in the arm.
19:46
It actually, it hurt. Still.
19:48
Yeah, still still stings. Still stings.
19:49
Emotionally scarred. But anyways, Phillip, it's
19:53
revealed who won the bets. They'll be sort of already knew
19:56
because the from who was taunting him the night before a
19:59
little too. Well, yes, I think yeah, Heywood
20:01
got his big payout. And what I think is really most
20:03
interesting is Andy at this point wants to know the guy's
20:06
name. That's it.
20:07
I don't know why, but because Andy's still human.
20:11
Yes, and to me, everybody else in the scene shows a complete
20:16
lack of humanity. Especially box.
20:18
But anyway, save that. Like nobody at that table gives
20:21
a damn. This guy was a person, right?
20:23
He was a bet. He was a joke.
20:24
He was this fat ass. It's a hilarious thing that
20:28
happens every so often in the prison that they all get a laugh
20:31
out. I think they're off, took a
20:33
little bit momentarily. So there's a brief moment like,
20:36
oh, he died. Yeah, but they would have been
20:38
fine, I think, if he went to the Infirmary.
20:40
Yeah, right. Like, oh, yeah, absolutely.
20:43
So the fact that he died is, like, extreme.
20:45
But they still don't care about this person at all.
20:48
Not enough. And I wonder, David, does this
20:51
bump up against your I gotta like everybody all the time
20:54
thing because these are all criminals?
20:56
They're all criminals, but man, they're, they're just, they're
20:59
good ones, you know? They're murders and rapists and
21:02
whatever, but they're just nice. They're relatable.
21:06
OK. No, I would say, first of all,
21:08
you have a guy like Whitmore, that's the actor's name, who
21:12
played Brooks. I mean, he's been there
21:14
obviously for a very long time, which is sort of a little
21:16
indicated a little bit later. So he's pretty soft.
21:19
We have Andy himself, which we, I don't really know either way.
21:25
So he's still OK for now. OK.
21:27
Morgan Freeman, come on, kill anybody again.
21:31
That happened a long time ago. He's changed.
21:33
He's performed. You heard him in the parole
21:35
hearing. He's a he's a good man.
21:37
And a couple other. It's mostly just sadder.
21:39
You're the ones who don't really say a whole lot, so I don't get
21:41
connected to them. But at this point, I mean, we're
21:45
still laying the land. So I'm not really, you know.
21:47
But you're in a prison, so like I said right away, I've just.
21:50
This is not your your, your wheelhouse, right?
21:53
Because you like people and everybody in here belongs in
21:56
here, basically. Yeah.
21:57
But it's the way that the story's told.
21:59
It doesn't rely on that. For some other movies where I
22:02
brought it up and I'm guilty of it for whatever reason, maybe
22:07
I'm trying to fill a void, but this movie's filling that void
22:09
with something else that I'm not putting that into question
22:12
because actually I never thought of it.
22:13
Yeah, I think I, And that's a good sign.
22:15
I think where I might try like, oh, I couldn't get into movie
22:18
because I couldn't, you know, latch on to anybody and cheer
22:21
for anybody because the story is riveting enough and compelling
22:25
enough for. I don't need that.
22:26
I said it earlier, I love this movie and I still love this
22:30
movie, and I certainly didn't then.
22:32
I think the problem I have with this movie is exactly what you
22:35
just said, which is it doesn't make me think about anything.
22:38
We have a problem with something I say.
22:40
More so, I just think that this movie is it's seemingly retrofit
22:45
and designed. It's it wasn't, but it's like
22:47
almost in hindsight, it's designed to be the IMDb number
22:52
one movie. It's like inoffensive.
22:54
It doesn't spend any time really digging into anything really
22:57
meaty. It's hopeful, it's friendship,
23:00
it's love, it's things like that.
23:01
It's. A tough place to find.
23:03
That yeah. And I think it's a great movie.
23:04
It does all those things well. It's well written.
23:06
It's well direct. Like everything about it, it's
23:07
not a complaint. On paper, it's good.
23:08
But I do think that there's a piece of why it this movie
23:12
doesn't challenge anything at all.
23:14
It's interesting. And it doesn't have to, but
23:17
there's a reason why I think it's universally accepted as
23:20
this great movie is because nobody has to think about it.
23:23
It's interesting that it's so loved and beloved, whatever term
23:27
would be better suited for this one.
23:29
And I sort of over glossed at the beginning of the episode
23:32
where usually I give you my initial impressions.
23:34
We got so hyped up, I guess, that I didn't really like this
23:38
movie when I first watched it. Probably short after its
23:42
release. Oh my goodness.
23:43
OK, someone years later and and that would be now about 10-12.
23:50
Thirteen years ago it was given to me as a gift on DVD.
23:53
OK. I was offended that it wasn't
23:56
Blu-ray. I didn't bring it up, Sure, but
23:59
we're at Blu-ray level here. Yeah, it's probably pretty cheap
24:01
gift, but it's actually a good movie where my friend Kishwar
24:05
gave me Grandpa's house, I think it was called, with De Niro.
24:09
Yeah, I did, did not do well. So that was like A rated like a
24:11
four. This at least was A rated like a
24:13
nine, Sure. But I had no inclination, had no
24:17
desire to watch it. So I didn't really feel like the
24:20
majority of people with this movie.
24:22
So I'm thinking, well, I don't remember care about this movie.
24:26
Yeah. And I never wanted to watch it
24:28
again. This might have been my second
24:30
viewing. I don't know.
24:32
I might have thought I might have watched it on TV because
24:34
like you said, I did have cable back then and it was played a
24:37
lot. So I imagine I did see it a
24:39
second time. But I have not watched it for, I
24:43
want to say, 20 years. Wow.
24:45
Yeah. So it's been a long time and you
24:49
said you love this movie. I do not.
24:52
I don't hate it, but I still was felt like OK, well it's good.
24:56
And like, I feel like I'm something's wrong with me as
24:59
usual. As.
25:00
Usual because this is getting a lot of a lot of positive hype.
25:03
But it is interesting to hear you say that because I'm assumed
25:07
the word masterpiece and perfection would come out and
25:10
now we can remove perfection. Yes.
25:12
Not necessarily. Masterpiece might still be.
25:15
Possible it's a masterpiece either.
25:16
I think it's just a very effective movie, like I think
25:19
it's really good. Yeah, well-rounded, qualifies as
25:22
as a masterpiece or, or anything above that.
25:24
OK. But that's not to take it away
25:26
because I think it said. Ultimately, you loved it.
25:29
Yeah. I feel like I'm supposed to like
25:31
it, and it's classic Dave, right?
25:32
This antagonistic approach. Yeah, Don't tell me that The
25:35
Godfather's the greatest movie ever.
25:37
I got almost Heroes in the archives.
25:41
I don't buy it. Yeah, buddy.
25:45
Anyways, Philip, it's now been a month.
25:49
Yes, four weeks. Yep, in prison.
25:51
And apparently, and he hasn't said much.
25:54
No, it's a quiet guy. Quiet guy got respected.
25:58
We have Red and by the way, who has been in the movie Red?
26:02
That is true. My goodness, 2 Reds it wasn't
26:04
it. Yeah, I think there was.
26:06
Two, I think there was two, Yeah, yeah.
26:07
And it's, I promise you, Looper next.
26:10
So it's going to be a while, OK? Because Bruce is in the movie,
26:12
so you're lucky. But he has a request.
26:16
He has heard rumors around the courtyard or anywhere in the
26:20
prison that Red's character is the guy that can get things.
26:24
Yes, that's his role in the prison ecosystem.
26:26
Yes, absolutely. And I buy it.
26:28
Yeah, I buy it. He always delivers.
26:30
And I would buy from him. Yeah.
26:32
So you would need to. What I think is funny to me is,
26:35
and this is a a true of prison movies generally is, you know,
26:39
cigarettes I get to a certain extent.
26:41
Where are they getting the stuff?
26:43
Like, you know, Red says, you know, for this rock hammer, 10
26:46
bucks. Yeah, Who's got 10 bucks?
26:49
Especially in 1947, that seemed pricey to me.
26:53
It's it's, it's pricey, sure, but even then, like you're in
26:55
prison. What are you?
26:56
Where's your Where's your dollars?
26:58
And it started out at 7:00 as the value of it.
27:00
Say you or I in 1947 went into a store to buy one.
27:04
That seems pricey for that in 1947.
27:06
I think it's $7.00 now, so I'm out.
27:13
Yeah, anyway, I did sort of question that as well.
27:16
I figure again, I don't know the how it works, the ecosystem of.
27:20
But obviously you get the guards involved and I guess the whole
27:23
world, it's a whole culture. It's really quite interesting.
27:26
I just they've never explained it enough in any prison movie
27:28
where this sort of well, if you want to find out, I mean do the
27:31
crime, but. Yes, there it is.
27:33
I'll do it I guess. Make a count though.
27:34
Make a count. What it what it leads to,
27:36
however, is some really fun scenes, it seems that I always
27:40
liked in other prison movies, fun prison scenes, fun prison
27:43
scenes, which is the, the sort of transportation, the smuggling
27:46
process, the the steps that have to be taken, the guy looking
27:49
behind, the guy in the bag, look over here, slip on the fire,
27:53
absolutely all of that going through the assembly line,
27:56
making sure you mark the the right laundry bin for the right
28:00
thing, you know? I would say there's two really
28:02
exciting things about prison movies or or about that world is
28:05
that and the escape stuff. Oh yeah, Those are the two real
28:08
things that you want to play. I love.
28:10
Yeah. Like the inner machinations and
28:12
the machinery, if you will, of the prison life.
28:16
Yeah, I really enjoy. It's interesting.
28:18
And we get Brooks involved too, right?
28:19
He's got the library and Brooksy.
28:21
Brooksy's coming in for the save boy.
28:23
Yeah. A little less fun, however.
28:25
The sisters, yes. Sisters and they make a quick
28:30
reference to this group of three.
28:32
I believe it is. Yeah.
28:33
Leader is Boggs. Boggs.
28:35
I will probably get to them a little bit later.
28:37
But there's a comment I always thought I think a stand up
28:39
comedian did it. Like what?
28:40
What is it about prison that makes you gay?
28:42
You know what I mean? Like all of a sudden you're just
28:44
flip a switch and you're gay. And he says they're not even
28:47
human. Like, like those guys are not
28:50
even anything. And that's that's that's scary
28:53
stuff. I don't think this movie paints
28:55
it as bad as it really is. It doesn't go as dark as I think
29:01
other prison movies do. Yep.
29:03
Though there are some scenes that are, you know.
29:04
Oh, yeah. I mean, you know, that's kind of
29:06
stuff. I agree.
29:07
It's it's inoffensive, Right. But it also isn't that movie.
29:11
Yeah. That's not the story.
29:12
It's not the story. So it's telling a story.
29:14
About hope and joy and whatever else.
29:16
So you don't want to break, you know, 15 minutes into right into
29:19
something completely dark and brutal.
29:21
But I do think they do a decent job of at least touching on the
29:25
darkness you have to. Absolutely.
29:28
As far as the first part of that, I, I, I think it's
29:32
ultimately just like if you're surrounded by men, I don't think
29:38
it's got anything to do with being gay as much as being like.
29:41
Lack of options, yeah. Yeah, right.
29:43
And so you put those same people, theoretically anyway,
29:46
into the public afterwards and they go back to whatever they
29:48
were prior to it. I wouldn't.
29:50
I had some pretty dry spells and there's other there is one other
29:53
way you can take care of that. Yeah, we got a lot of solo time
29:57
in the prison. Oh sure, it's not the same.
30:00
Though, come on. No, it's not the same.
30:04
But I could go 10, I could go 10 years.
30:06
You think? I think I have, I think I have I
30:08
quite a drought there. Yeah, quite a drought.
30:10
That's fair. I want to share that.
30:12
There. You got it out of me.
30:20
This is something that I learned in Kingston, Penn is you're just
30:23
not there to do time. It's more than laundry.
30:26
It's more than the library license plates.
30:28
Exactly. In Kingston, Penn, it was making
30:31
the postal bags for Canada Post. Here we get a a roof gig.
30:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like a good roof gig.
30:37
A lot of tar. I don't know if you've done any
30:39
roofing yourself. I dabbled a little bit briefly
30:42
helped a friend once. Yeah, I got up there a bit on a
30:45
roof. OK.
30:46
Not on a day like today though, 33°.
30:49
Entire. Not pleasant.
30:50
Not a good combination, but it does lead to a good scene.
30:54
That certainly is a big tentpole.
30:57
Tentpole scene. Exactly.
30:59
Yeah, there it is. Tentpole scene that really
31:01
pushes this movie before and there's some key, key moments in
31:04
it. Absolutely.
31:05
We get Hadley bitchin. He's talking about his brother
31:07
dying. Yeah, tough break.
31:10
And he gets $30,000. 35,035 before taxes.
31:13
Yes, Uncle Sam's going to take a piece out of me, and what is it
31:16
going to end up stupefied? Buy a car and it'll take a piece
31:20
out of that. Exactly like just a think it's a
31:22
glass half empty guy, he dies, I get a car.
31:25
Yeah, basically. And we don't even know what make
31:27
and model at this point. Yeah, some jalopy perhaps in the
31:31
1940s. So anyway, but you just get a
31:33
little insight into his character.
31:34
He's obviously an angry mother and but Andy's got a plan.
31:37
He's got an ear, he's listening. He's a banker.
31:40
He's a banker and so he offers this opportunity as a one time
31:43
spousal exchange. Do you think she's going to
31:45
hamstring you? It's a great line.
31:48
And Hadley's. His ears prick up, of course.
31:53
And there's finances involved. You can save a few bucks.
31:55
And this is the ecosystem, this is what happens.
31:59
This is the relationships. When you're in there for a long
32:01
time, you have to. Yeah, the whole thing.
32:05
Is that right? Exactly.
32:06
So this is sort of like the beginning of that.
32:08
Yeah, it shows Andy's sort of willingness to think on his feet
32:11
as well, right? He sees an opportunity.
32:13
So he's not as meek as a character that we're being led
32:17
to believe. They manipulate the circumstance
32:19
to even get the job on the roof anyway.
32:22
Oh, that's Red, right? Red's pulling.
32:24
Some strings. Sneaky.
32:26
Sneaky. Yeah.
32:27
But we get Andy, who's he's just malleable, right?
32:30
He's just sort of willing to play the game in ways that
32:33
everybody else is nervous of. He seems intelligent.
32:37
Yeah. I never thought he was, like,
32:38
dumb. No, I think he's hyper
32:40
intelligent. I think he's also young enough
32:42
at the time to be ballsy. You know, I was just talking the
32:45
other week about, you know, the the stuff I try to pull in my
32:48
20s at work and with managers and other, you know, things you
32:52
wouldn't dare now. And now it's sort of like all
32:54
those, all that PNV. It's just I don't have the I
32:58
don't have the energy for the fight anymore on some levels,
33:01
unless it's extreme, whereas he comes in and he's got it and
33:05
you're watching other people around him.
33:07
Andy eyes on the ground don't stop work, right?
33:09
You're going to get whatever and Andy just knows he's going to be
33:12
able to probably anyway, talk his way out of whatever that
33:15
trouble he's in. He's confident.
33:17
Yeah. And it consists throughout the
33:19
movie, right? He's always got this air of I
33:22
know how to get out, I can fix this.
33:25
And so anyway, it's a great little scene in between these
33:28
two characters that are ultimately at opposite ends of
33:31
the spectrum, but meet together here in the middle.
33:34
And while doing this, it kind of has two prong effect here, you
33:38
know, like how you'd like to use that term 2 prong.
33:40
I have a lot of pairs of prongs at home.
33:43
It also gains the friendship. It solidifies if it hasn't
33:47
already, maybe with red, but everybody because they all get
33:50
to have a few beers. Yeah, that's the trade off and
33:53
we'll do this paperwork and get it all set up for just a couple
33:55
of suds. Yeah, that's and that's in that
33:58
situation. And the way Red, played by
34:01
Morgan Freeman, for those who don't know, overlays it with his
34:04
voice and how it feels to have those beers.
34:08
You feel like a free man. Yep, it's beautiful up there,
34:11
and Andy kind of has that grin on his face, almost distant,
34:15
this sort of glazed overlook at some point.
34:18
And he doesn't drink exactly. Let's be clear up, good man.
34:21
But we do get deacons just working with colors in the
34:25
beautiful outdoors. The sun's coming down,
34:27
everyone's on like it's just magic hour.
34:29
It's gorgeous, shots, beautiful. That's the kind of stuff that
34:32
Rodger Deacons can bring you. And what's interesting, and
34:34
we'll talk about it eventually, but in 1999, Frank Darabont
34:39
makes The Green Mile and Rodger Deakins shoots the movie The
34:43
Hurricane. There's also a prison movie kind
34:45
of off and on, and watching The Green Mile compared to this
34:51
visually, night and day, really. Yeah.
34:54
I find Green Mile to be not inspiring, not particularly
34:57
interesting visually. Because that was that was
35:00
received well generally. A movie, not a problem.
35:01
Not a bad movie necessarily, but visually lacking and I can watch
35:05
this movie in prison and defenses like holy shit, this
35:08
guy is amazing and I can watch the hurricane and go holy shit
35:11
this is amazing and then watch Green Mile and go it's.
35:15
OK, it's trashy. Yeah, I'm not going to watch it
35:17
then. Yeah, there you go.
35:17
Yeah, You're not doing a good job selling that movie.
35:21
And Speaking of movies, actually this is a scene right after that
35:24
where they're watching a movie. I hadn't seen it before.
35:28
I don't know if you've seen it. You know the title of it, Gilda.
35:30
Gilda. I've not seen it, no.
35:32
OK. Which Andy has seen three times.
35:35
Oh, yes, yes. This month I can see the
35:37
attraction because that actress, she's a real looker.
35:40
Oh, yeah. Rita Hayworth.
35:42
Rita Hayworth. It's a real name.
35:44
Yeah. Rita Hayworth is noteworthy
35:45
because the original title of the short story this movie is
35:48
based upon is Rita Hayworth and Shawshank Redemption.
35:52
OK, but they were never going to name a movie.
35:55
It's too long, certainly. It's bad enough the movies.
35:57
That's long 222. We don't need a long title fair
36:01
to go with a long movie. What's funny is when I first
36:04
hear him make this request at this point in the movie, he
36:07
wants Rita to come into the prison.
36:11
Oh, you're saying like like a candy type of situation?
36:13
I thought he meant a person. I didn't.
36:16
I didn't connect the The Who is on the screen, I just thought he
36:19
wanted an old girlfriend or something conjugal maybe?
36:23
Sure, maybe. Well, it sort of sets up what's
36:26
going to happen throughout the rest of the movie.
36:27
You know, there's jokes. Oh, we get Marilyn and we get.
36:29
Yeah, yeah, like that poster. Central, you need that poster to
36:32
the whole thing right in the moment.
36:34
It sort of feels like you're saying like kind of whatever,
36:36
but it definitely plays a large role.
36:38
Yeah, and the movie does a pretty good job of that, like
36:39
laying a couple things out where you don't realize it till later.
36:43
Oh, OK, that that's there for a reason.
36:45
Yeah, 100%. And I think this sort of leads
36:47
to the next scene or two, I would say almost like a
36:50
promotion for Annie's character. Yes, they do a random cell
36:54
check, which they alluded to earlier in the film.
36:57
And he's been the chosen one. Yeah.
36:59
Yeah. We get a little bit more time
37:02
with the warden of Ace Ventura when nature calls fame, that's I
37:08
recognize him and I knew what he was in that movie.
37:10
That's that's it. And Hadley together in the same
37:14
room, they kind of knocked some things down, which.
37:15
Very rude. I watch these things in most
37:18
prison movies. They do this stuff and I'm just
37:20
like, come on. It's because.
37:21
They can, right? Yeah.
37:21
Exactly. It's just like power dynamic.
37:23
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stupid.
37:25
But ultimately, it seems Norton wants his services for a little
37:28
bit more than what he's done so far, right?
37:31
I don't think he's actually done anything for Norton directly.
37:33
No, but he finds out that he's like a man who gets things done
37:36
that way. He has certain.
37:37
Qualities. That's right, and Skills becomes
37:40
ultimately Brooks's apprentice. Yeah, which is strange because
37:45
he hasn't had one for years. Yeah, He's done this solo for
37:50
decades. That's right.
37:51
And it's a pretty easy job. Yeah.
37:53
And then a moment later, we find out why another guy, actually,
37:56
coincidentally Mr. Deakins is the character's name, says I
38:01
want to set up a trust fund. Yep.
38:02
OK, now we know why you're here. This is where people are going
38:05
to funnel in you. Want to go to Yale or to go to
38:06
Harvard. Great line.
38:08
It's great line exactly. And so we get in a sort of
38:12
getting the sort of next phase of Andy as prodigal son here,
38:18
right? He's doing the taxes, all the
38:20
paperwork for the guards and the warden and now from other
38:23
counties are coming in from baseball season.
38:26
No, a banker doesn't make you an accountant.
38:28
So I I'm a little bit iffy on this one.
38:31
I'm OK, I guess I'm letting it slide you.
38:33
Don't have to be an accountant to know how to account.
38:36
It's true. I think is the is the thing you
38:38
know, people do their accounts. I do my account, Yeah, no.
38:42
I think we already talked about you're an H&R Block guy.
38:44
Yes, one. 100% tried and true. And this, this whole thing of
38:49
Annie doing these chores for these people kind of leads them
38:51
to wanting more books. Yes, that's right, One letter a
38:54
week. Exactly.
38:55
It's all it's going to take. Might take a few years, but from
38:58
books we go to Brooks. But with a knife.
39:02
Yeah, What's going on? That's not really in his
39:05
character. That's not the Brooks I know.
39:07
Yeah. And Red and everybody assume
39:10
Haywood, yeah, has done something, tripped him up.
39:13
Yeah, yeah. But no, he's, I don't want to do
39:15
anything. But we really, we find out
39:17
pretty quick what's what's going on inside of Brooksy's head.
39:20
Yeah, ultimately he's been granted parole in 50.
39:24
Years. That's it.
39:25
That's important to know. And he doesn't want to go.
39:28
And he's saying basically the only thing I can do to get them
39:31
to keep me here is to kill somebody, hurt somebody.
39:35
And the movie doesn't present it as dark as it is, but a pretty
39:39
dark reality. And what I like about it more
39:42
than most things is what really kind of happens after.
39:45
Because it what it does, it triggers the conversation.
39:48
It triggers red. You know, no one can understand
39:50
why he's got his parole. No, you know he's.
39:53
Institutionalized. It's the term they use.
39:55
That's right. And that's means like, this is
39:57
your home. Yeah.
39:58
You can't survive on the outside.
40:00
Yeah, that's what that means. And here he's an important man.
40:02
He's a librarian. He's got his all.
40:03
He's got his. Like you were saying earlier,
40:04
he's got the network. This is.
40:06
Yeah, you're the guy. And out there, you're nothing.
40:08
Nothing. You can barely do anything
40:10
right. You haven't had a job in 50
40:12
years. He's got arthritis, like he's
40:14
not in a situation where he can start over.
40:16
That's right. So those are all elements that I
40:18
think are really kind of compelling in the way that they
40:21
lay it out, particularly, you know, in Reds voice over and
40:23
such like that. You know, and you know, the
40:26
thing about these walls, he says.
40:27
You know, first you hate them and you come to rely on them.
40:30
And I think obviously not exactly prison, but I'm sure we
40:34
could relate at our jobs. Yeah.
40:37
They're prisons, right? We're we're happy at times and
40:41
we're not happy at other times. But when it actually comes to
40:44
you have to leave. I've never quit a job in my
40:48
life, right? They have to kick me out.
40:50
Yeah. They you get fired.
40:51
I get fired, laid off, whatever else.
40:52
With cause just sort of. Absolutely.
40:55
But the principle of that is what I mean, what I'm trying to
40:57
get at is those walls, we, they are depended on, right?
41:01
Like you become whatever that thing is and your identity is
41:04
locked up into. It's a different circumstance,
41:06
but I can relate when when Brooks is getting this or when
41:09
Red is giving his details about what it feels like.
41:13
Like yeah, that makes sense. And he's kind of obviously
41:16
talking about himself as well because he's going, he's going
41:18
on 30 years. He gets a little bit of push
41:21
back from I would say it's kind of split from his buddies.
41:24
Like you don't know what you're talking about.
41:25
You're talking about your nonsense.
41:26
Some people kind of clue in the I sort of understand me at the
41:30
time watching the movie, probably when I was, you know,
41:33
21 of the reasons why I probably didn't enjoy it is I didn't
41:37
really appreciate it. I was too young to really
41:39
understand the mentality. It would be spoiled kid would
41:43
never experience this. I haven't been in the job force
41:46
for long. Looking at it now is like, yeah,
41:49
I can totally get where this is coming from.
41:52
And I I would agree that that's something that would happen with
41:54
a prisoner of, you know, 30-40, fifty years, right?
41:58
Absolutely. You work in retail for 25 years.
42:00
What do you do after that? Right.
42:02
What skills during your during your time working retail, you
42:04
want to kill yourself afterwards, Maybe not
42:06
afterwards. A little bit different in that
42:08
aspect. But yeah, certainly does take
42:10
over a somewhat of your identity.
42:13
He gets to sort of have that great line with, you know, it
42:15
says, you know, they send you here for life and that's exactly
42:16
what they take because even though he's paroled, he's done
42:20
right, Like his life is the prison.
42:21
And we get that that bores out, bears out in in the next scene.
42:25
Now I'm curious your thoughts because for me it's my favorite.
42:30
Scene, buddy. I mean, I'm with you.
42:32
I don't know if this is the first time in five years.
42:36
It's probably happened once or twice, but ultimately, yes.
42:40
My favorite scene, I love how it's his own little movie for
42:44
like 5-6, seven minutes. It just the tones difference,
42:49
the settings different. About an hour in and we're
42:50
actually out of the prison for a little bit.
42:53
So it's a nice little break in that aspect.
42:55
So I enjoy how we follow him along from leaving the prison,
42:58
gets on the bus, clearly looks scared to a certain extent.
43:03
And that's something that's really driven home in both the
43:06
times where someone's left the prison is the feeling of the
43:08
fear, which is kind of ironic because you think being in
43:11
prison, I would be afraid of of the sisters.
43:16
That's like, I, I'm scared of that, clearly.
43:19
Yeah, I would not bode well. And I think it just has a really
43:23
good way of articulating how it would feel to be in prison for
43:28
50 years and be on the outside. It's great that they have a
43:33
little apartment set up and they have a job which I think is more
43:37
than what you would normally even get.
43:39
I think it's now I I feel like that is actually what you would
43:41
get. Oh, is it OK?
43:42
Red gets the exact same. He does.
43:44
So there's obviously some sort of relationship.
43:45
I just didn't know if that was like a 1940s, nineteen 50s thing
43:48
and that no longer exists. Possible.
43:50
I'm not sure, but I think that's pretty good.
43:52
Yeah. So I, I sort of like, OK, that's
43:54
not too bad, but 50 years. Yeah, it's just not, it's not
43:58
the point, right? Because you're not what's What's
44:00
missing isn't. Now I can have a job, right?
44:04
That doesn't solve the thing. Now I can have an apartment.
44:06
Well, he already had his. Had an apartment.
44:08
Already. Yeah, like nothing had a job.
44:09
Yeah, right. So it doesn't really fulfill
44:12
that. What I love about it is, is the
44:14
transitional sort of voice over. You get read reading Brooks's
44:20
letter, yes, while it's happening.
44:22
So you're getting Brooks's voice over kind of through Red's
44:26
reading. So there's a a continuity there
44:28
that I kind of like. And so we can do that exactly
44:30
through a letter. Yeah.
44:31
Otherwise he would know what's happening.
44:32
Exactly. And you're having 6 now
44:34
competing different voice overs. That doesn't work either.
44:36
What I love so much is just like it.
44:38
There is a quiet desperation that Brooks is talking about and
44:43
alluding to the fact he's like, you know, I went in something
44:47
like the passage of time. I go back, we've talked about
44:49
this before. I go back to visit Vancouver.
44:52
It's now I've been out, gone from there for 15 years and I go
44:58
back and it's a new place. Yeah.
45:01
And there's this like constant regeneration and so forth.
45:04
And I think faster. Is it faster out there now?
45:06
Well, to some extent. But I think about like my
45:09
grandparents and stuff like that, right?
45:10
Like someone that doesn't even us and computers like it.
45:14
Just the fast pace of that world, not cars, obviously,
45:18
we're not that old, but the idea that you could be someplace and
45:23
time disappears and you're back in that same place but things
45:25
are completely different is a pretty head trippy, messed up
45:29
thing. And if you think about a car
45:31
again, think about a computer, you go into prison, you're using
45:34
VHS. Let's just use sure in prison.
45:37
Yeah, VHS, we come out with 4K. Yeah, like a million other
45:40
things. AIA flat screen television.
45:43
You know, that would be jarring to say the least.
45:46
And no wonder you feel like I can't keep up.
45:48
I think they did a pretty good job of capturing it using the
45:51
automobile. Absolutely.
45:52
And just trying to cross the street, like, oh, my God, this
45:54
is so overwhelming of the changes.
45:57
And it's interesting you, like, about it.
45:58
Like, that doesn't exist since, you know, 1909.
46:01
Yeah. I think it's really what makes
46:02
the scene successful. Yeah.
46:03
And Brooks, he's got a great face.
46:05
He does. You know, I don't know him as an
46:06
actor from anything else necessarily.
46:08
The Majestic. Oh well, sure.
46:10
Well, I mean, just there's connective tissue there that you
46:12
love so much. I think it's the theater guy, I
46:14
imagine. Yeah.
46:14
I never saw the movie. Well.
46:17
And then watching him look over the pawn shop, look at his
46:22
options, Brooks was here and hanging himself.
46:27
Like, my gosh, yeah, I got gut punch.
46:29
Yeah, I again there's a. Few things in this movie that I
46:32
either didn't remember or misremembered OK this I was able
46:37
to write it down before it. Happened because I I did that
46:40
connected to yeah, that's totally fair.
46:43
It's it's a great scene and unlike the rest of the movie.
46:46
So it's like a nice stand alone, beautiful kind of moment.
46:48
And it's really awesome because they do call a bag later with
46:52
red. It's it's a perfect mirror of
46:55
what happens later. Absolutely.
47:04
Well, Phil, the books. Have come one letter a week for
47:08
six years finally. That'll do it that'll that did
47:11
do it. It did do it.
47:12
So now he's going to start writing 2.
47:14
A week. I love it.
47:14
Because he'll get it in three years, apparently.
47:16
I think, again, he's a banker. Doing the math.
47:18
Doing the math. Also, get some vinyls.
47:20
Yeah. Yeah.
47:21
You'd like that, eh? Yeah.
47:22
My brother is big on the vinyl stuff.
47:24
I don't own a record. I just like the idea of art,
47:26
man. I appreciate it.
47:26
It's a big deal. I appreciate the that that sound
47:29
versus everything being digitized.
47:30
I think there is something getting lost in that.
47:33
Too clean. Too clean.
47:35
It's like watching a 4K movie in some cases.
47:37
I was talking about this the other day to somebody and you're
47:39
watching. You can see the makeup, you can
47:42
see the prosthetic, you can see the dude.
47:44
Have you watched T2 Terminator 2?
47:46
Not on no, not on 4K. Stunt double S It's a problem,
47:49
Yeah. Real issue.
47:50
Real issue it. Becomes too clean.
47:51
You're like, wait nonetheless. What's not so clean is pinching
47:56
a loaf. No, no, no.
47:57
That's dirty. I I've never heard that term
47:59
before. Oh, really?
48:00
It's drop a deuce. I'm assuming.
48:02
Drop a deuce. Yeah.
48:03
Kids off at the pool. Yeah.
48:04
Pinch a loaf. That's the.
48:06
Anyways. Love it.
48:07
What I love most about it, though, it's the fourth and
48:10
final introduction of our Seinfeld characters.
48:13
Duncan, if you remember. Oh yes, well, I mean, I know him
48:16
more from Magnolia, of course. Oh, is he in that?
48:19
Yeah, please. The lawyer.
48:21
No. OK, well, Julianne Moore is
48:24
talking to. I'll have to watch it again.
48:26
I'll have to watch it again. But for now.
48:29
But for now, I choose not to run.
48:32
That's him. And Andy chooses to lock him
48:35
into the bathroom. Yep.
48:36
Lock the door and put this on the PA system of it's time.
48:40
The opera. Yeah.
48:41
Beautiful. Remind me briefly of of Saving
48:44
Private Ryan. Oh yes, you recall.
48:46
Sure. And everyone's sort of, do I
48:50
want to say mesmerized, Is that too strong?
48:52
No, I think. That's it really.
48:53
Thanks for having my back buddy. What I don't like about it?
48:56
Let me tell you two things. We already know this movie's not
48:58
perfect, so. That's right.
48:59
The two things I dislike about this scene, and they're the only
49:01
two scenes because I really do like it.
49:03
The first is that this guard was the one that was on his side.
49:08
You did it, Andy, right? Yeah.
49:10
Like it was kind of rooting for him.
49:12
So it's kind of a Dick move by Andy.
49:14
You. Don't want to burn too many
49:14
bridges in this. Some setting, little Dick move,
49:17
whatever, but it's such a weird nitpick and I'm going to call it
49:22
out. It's it's sure it's on me, OK?
49:25
It's not the movie's fault. It's me.
49:26
OK, That's. Rare for you to admit that.
49:28
But there is, I want to say 3, maybe four times in this movie
49:33
where Red equates something happening to feeling as though
49:37
he was a free man. Whether it was on the roof.
49:41
It's the music here, it's on the bus later.
49:43
And that doesn't quite jive with the overall theme of the
49:46
struggle. Afterwards, yeah.
49:47
And I got me thinking weirdly about the fishing scene in
49:52
Cuckoo's Nest last week. Yeah, Showcase.
49:54
Scene and a breast appeared. Yeah, Sir, just for a brief
49:57
moment. But what what bothered me was we
50:01
were talking and it it, it was like they left and fairly easily
50:07
escaped. Little Yeah, I didn't.
50:09
I didn't. No, and it's fine because it's
50:12
it's a fine movie, right. But in thinking about that, does
50:14
the hospital lose its strength because it could have escaped
50:19
that way? You didn't need the, you know,
50:21
the the chief to break, you know, all that stuff.
50:23
And I think about this here where it's sort of like if red
50:26
is granted, maybe stretched over 30 years, I don't know.
50:29
You're like, oh, this is the drink of the beer was what it
50:31
must have felt to be like a free man.
50:34
And then hearing the music, I don't know, but it sounded like
50:37
something about freedom. And then on the bus I feel that
50:40
the chills in my spine is only a free man could feel.
50:43
I did say that so. There's just like 3 or 4
50:45
different references to being free and you're sort of like, I
50:48
don't know, something. It didn't jive.
50:50
It's a nitpick. It's doesn't matter, but it's
50:52
like a little of too much. Yeah, considering he didn't
50:55
really want to leave, yeah. In the end, yeah, he doesn't
50:58
even want to feel. Spoiler for anybody.
51:00
Out there, that's a good point. Thank you.
51:02
I come to play, come to play. Well, all this say though, this
51:06
did result in two weeks in the hole.
51:09
Not bad, not bad. Easiest time he ever did, he
51:12
says. That's what he says, and they're
51:14
in the cafeteria, and I'm thinking at this point, I don't
51:17
know why Phil's going to like this.
51:20
He's going to connect to this resonation of where the music
51:24
lives because you are undoubtedly.
51:27
I'm a music guy much more than me.
51:30
Yeah, sure. The live shows and such.
51:33
Am I right? Am I way off?
51:34
100% this is, I mean, certainly if you've listened to this
51:37
podcast for five years, it's certainly my ethos.
51:40
It's the reason the podcast exists, is that music plays art
51:44
of any kind really, I find exceptionally powerful.
51:50
I can feel emotion about many things.
51:53
Power of music, the power of art, the power of words and
51:56
movies and anything like that. And I just take representation,
52:00
so I wrap it. All in the haunts.
52:02
All everything. It's all in the haunts.
52:05
It's just really powerful. So when he says things like easy
52:08
as time I had, I had Mozart with me and the guy, the idiot, you
52:13
know, oh, they let you bring that down.
52:15
Like, no, come on, who's that Brody?
52:17
Probably idiot, but. You know it lives in here and
52:22
lives in your head and in your heart and you can't touch that.
52:26
You can't. And you know, it talks about
52:28
hope for the first time. MC can do it either, no?
52:31
You couldn't touch it, you couldn't touch it.
52:33
So it's really powerful messaging that I really
52:34
obviously, as you say it, it resonates and it's really a
52:37
powerful message of really my outlook on life.
52:40
But we also get the introduction of sort of Andy's belief in
52:43
hope, right? It lives deep.
52:45
It's something they can't touch. And they bump heads on this.
52:48
Red wants nothing to do with it. Yeah.
52:50
Red's hopeless. Exactly right.
52:52
That gets the man killed, right? Like he doesn't want any part of
52:54
it. He.
52:55
Just likes to taste the freedom every once in a while.
52:57
But he doesn't want the hope. Yeah, just the yeah, it's a bit
53:01
contradictory because like you're saying, in those moments
53:04
he sounds pretty hopeful. Yeah, I don't know the hypocrite
53:07
a little bit. I don't like him.
53:09
What's also interesting to me about it is by the time that
53:12
scene is kind of over, Red is sort of admitted that he used to
53:16
have a harmonica. Didn't think you would have any
53:18
use in here. And he says this is where you'd
53:20
have it the most, right? This is the most.
53:22
And we find out a little bit later that he gifts this
53:24
harmonica to Red and watching Morgan and and we haven't talked
53:28
much about his performance because he's just.
53:31
I. Think it's always good.
53:32
Exactly. And nominated for an Oscar
53:34
supporting actor this year and watching him, he's good
53:38
throughout, but in particular when he's got the harmonica and
53:41
he doesn't allow himself to enjoy it, to utilize it to.
53:48
There's something about that not allowing.
53:51
Like you're saying you want the feeling of it without the
53:54
reality of it. Can't handle the freedom, but
53:57
likes to think about what it might be like to be free.
54:00
And let me tell you, that's relatable.
54:01
Yeah. Yeah, A. 100%, cut me loose.
54:04
And now where am I? You know, I'm without a
54:06
direction. Yeah.
54:08
Yeah. So watching him try and at times
54:11
to hold it to his mouth but can't bring himself to play it,
54:14
Those scenes I think are like subtle, quiet, beautifully
54:19
rendered performance in a movie full of great performances.
54:23
I went through a stage and still struggle with it, where you make
54:27
a lot of mistakes in your youth with alcohol or or whatever,
54:31
just bad decision making where you feel guilty about doing
54:37
something that feels good for yourself.
54:39
Something up long term, not the short term dopamine hits, you
54:42
know, those things, whatever, that's a whole other problem.
54:45
But that something that would give you that long sense of
54:48
feeling good, I've often struggled with.
54:51
And in that moment, it's like, yeah, I, I get you read.
54:55
Can't accept it in. Yeah, 'cause you almost put
54:57
yourself in a mental prison. It's like, I've done this, I
54:59
don't deserve this. I am put myself in my mind in
55:02
four walls and it could be kind of crippling at sometimes.
55:05
So it took me, it took me years to sort of get somewhat close.
55:08
So institutionalized. Yeah.
55:11
And I'm not very smart. Oh, yes, that's true.
55:13
That's, that's factual. And it is five years like the
55:17
tape. Yeah, it's all there.
55:19
Unlike Andy, actually, oddly enough, he's quite smart, which
55:23
we have sort of established in another scene, again with Red,
55:27
which I agree is the strongest performance.
55:29
If. I'm just going to talk if.
55:30
You're going to talk, Oscar. That's the.
55:31
Guy. That's the guy.
55:32
That's fair. Tim was OK.
55:34
Yeah, yeah, it's fine. Serviceable.
55:36
Yeah, yeah, I like mumbly kind of plays that a little dry.
55:39
Sure. In Arlington Rd.
55:40
I'm on board. Love him.
55:43
We'll talk about that at some point.
55:45
Yeah, but he invents this guy named Randall Stevens.
55:49
You can do a lot by mail apparently.
55:51
Back in 1947, whatever. It is get some SSN license
55:56
everything basically creates this character, which is another
56:00
moment where a seed is sort of planted totally without.
56:03
I didn't anyway quite clue into this is going to play later.
56:06
Well, that exactly goes back to me not being very smart, but
56:10
it's it's a fun conversation. It leads to one of my favorite
56:13
lines where Annie says more or less, I don't quote as well as
56:17
you do. I was an honest man until I went
56:20
to prison. And now he's doing.
56:22
Yeah, and now he's doing fraud. He's part of, you know, the.
56:25
Laundering. Yeah, that's that's you can do
56:27
major. Time for that, unless you know
56:29
somebody, of course, but didn't break the law until in prison.
56:33
I think that's a a funny thing. Yeah, it's a really funny line.
56:35
It's a great kind of moment between the two.
56:37
And it does, like you say, set up what's happening later.
56:40
And also, you know, the it's the warden's fault, which is sort of
56:43
another nice little punchline to the rest of it is Andy doesn't
56:46
have the access to the mail to the right if not for the fact
56:51
that he's the warden's little pet.
56:53
Exactly. And it's so it's, I don't think
56:56
the Ward knows what this could lead to later.
56:58
I think he's underestimating the intelligence of the of our good
57:02
friend Andy Dufresne. Absolutely, absolutely.
57:04
What it does lead to, in fact, is Tommy.
57:09
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy, Tommy comes in not so innocent, not so
57:13
innocent actually done an actual and.
57:15
Not that smart. Not that smart.
57:16
He was caught stealing Oleds. That's right.
57:19
Or maybe, at the time, tube TV. Yes, yes, probably.
57:23
Didn't drop them though, because that's a whole different charge
57:25
That's right. And Andy's got that sort of
57:27
grade line like change your profession because you're
57:30
clearly not very good at this one yeah.
57:32
They don't have a. They don't connect initially,
57:33
No. Yeah, because, I mean, Andy's a
57:35
smart guy, Tommy. Guys know you're.
57:37
He's a jerk off. Like, exactly.
57:39
Yeah, I'm not. But when I was younger, I
57:41
fucking loved Tommy. You're still young, by the way.
57:43
Yes, and I love Gil Bellows, the actor.
57:45
He shows up in a bunch of different things.
57:47
He's a Vancouver guy. Oh, he's one of your guys.
57:50
Yeah, just he was just in a bunch of movies in the early
57:52
2000s. I kind of came back to him
57:53
later, but I was like, I really dig this guys, this guys vibe.
57:57
Good energy, good energy. We wish we'd get more out of
58:00
you, buddy. More energy sideburns.
58:02
He was a good looking chap. Reminded me of Matthew
58:05
Broderick. Yeah, I can see that.
58:07
Can you see it? Yeah.
58:08
Sorry. I feel better about it.
58:09
Then. There you go.
58:10
But yeah, so I thought a great character comes in and really
58:13
kind of spice it upward. Now, basically an hour left in
58:16
the movie, the next phase, let's say, is started and it gives
58:21
Andy another project as Red kind of alludes to, right?
58:24
Like library, the things. So Tommy becomes his new
58:27
project. Now, what's Tommy's final
58:30
mission? Or let's say, what's what's his
58:31
goals? His grade 12, Yeah.
58:34
High school diploma D Good for him.
58:36
Yeah. Yeah.
58:37
Just like Ricky from Trailer Park Boys if you haven't seen
58:40
it. Never seen it of.
58:40
Course you haven't because it's on TV, folks, and they're coming
58:43
back for season 13 because we all know how shows like to come
58:48
back. It's this is like the 6th or 7th
58:50
comeback I think, yeah. Has it been cancelled that?
58:52
I whoa, whoa, whoa. That's never been cancelled.
58:55
They, they choose, they choose on their own accord.
58:58
They. Choose not to continue.
59:01
This show is what made Showcase Showcase.
59:03
OK, this is as if that's anything.
59:06
Leave it at that. Anyways, another line that I
59:08
like because it's kind of a throwback to earlier in the
59:11
movie where everyone's innocent. Yes.
59:14
Like what? What are you here for?
59:16
That's right, it's getting to know each other.
59:17
Exactly. So now Annie's one of the boys,
59:19
Tommy Askins, like, why are you here?
59:22
He's like, well, the lawyer fucked me and that's probably
59:25
some truth to that. Knowing what we know,
59:27
potentially, sure, knowing what we know now.
59:29
But everyone has a good. Giggle about it Yep, making the
59:31
best of their time in there of course everyone's having a laugh
59:35
and I think there is that as much as we just to relate once
59:38
again to to the jobs I can look back at certain parts of that
59:43
job and think I. Hated it.
59:44
Yeah, it's the people. That I had the worst blah blah
59:46
blah. But I laughed.
59:48
Yeah, and. You're all in together.
59:50
Right enjoyed and like have fond memories of my best friends.
59:53
It's not all that bad, but you glom on the things that.
59:58
Depends what your where your headspace is on any totally
1:00:00
given day. But I mean, if you're there for
1:00:02
the people, the people I work with, then I realize if you
1:00:04
really have that relationship with them, you can leave the job
1:00:07
and still be friends with the people.
1:00:09
It's not easy though. It's not.
1:00:10
I realize that now as I've changed professions, I.
1:00:14
I've maintained some contact with some of them, but I'm like,
1:00:16
should I message them? They'll message me and that
1:00:19
they're probably thinking the same thing.
1:00:20
It's the ease of I have this conversation a number of times
1:00:23
because, again, a lot of transition happening.
1:00:25
It's that you don't have to think about it.
1:00:29
Yeah. All right.
1:00:29
I work five days a week with these people, so I don't have to
1:00:31
make the call, set it up, do the things.
1:00:34
There's no effort. There's no effort needed.
1:00:36
And then when the effort has become, it's like you've lulled
1:00:38
yourself and not you. We all have lulled ourselves
1:00:41
into this, like, oh, well, I do the life thing over here and I
1:00:45
just do the work thing with you guys.
1:00:47
Yeah. I'd haven't figured out how to
1:00:49
do the life thing with you guys. Yeah.
1:00:51
And it doesn't always click. And also society just breeds
1:00:54
isolation, their disconnection. Right.
1:00:56
Sure. Well, some do, yeah.
1:00:58
Some, well some buy into the whole like they want you to be
1:01:00
disconnected socially. I just never, I mean, you know,
1:01:04
I'm a very social guy at work. Used to be, you know, at the
1:01:07
social jobs. I heard you're a butterfly.
1:01:09
You're garrulous. You're borderline butterfly.
1:01:13
Social border butterfly. Come on, get the program here.
1:01:17
A butterfly effect. Butcher great movie on my shelf,
1:01:21
but even though I went to school right I I've made I had a good
1:01:24
laugh I had I worked on projects I've been to places at people's
1:01:27
houses do I talk to any of them once or twice and it's been a
1:01:31
while and also. Tell them to listen to the.
1:01:34
Podcast, just get in there, plug it.
1:01:38
Tommy ends up listening even though your friends don't.
1:01:42
He ends up listening. He ends up listening to a story
1:01:44
about Andy's situation. Yes, and his ears prick up.
1:01:48
They did, literally. Because make up he knows a
1:01:51
little something that not everybody else does.
1:01:54
Yes, that's. Quite a story he has to tell,
1:01:57
doesn't he? Indeed, golf pro.
1:02:00
That's the trigger right there. Yeah, I mean, that's something
1:02:02
you would remember. He's in a cell doing time with a
1:02:06
guy who likes to chat, chat. He had a lot of interesting
1:02:09
characteristics that you would not want in a roommate.
1:02:11
No, no, no, no. And they could have easily have
1:02:13
just told the story orally with Tommy.
1:02:17
Yeah, but they use this opportunity to to show us the
1:02:19
flashback. Yeah.
1:02:20
And they chose the perfect actor for this 32nd moment because he
1:02:27
is creepy as shit. Very creepy, Yeah.
1:02:29
Like, wow, yeah. Intense, like everybody part on
1:02:32
him reeks of I'm creepy and I will kill somebody.
1:02:35
Yeah. And he did, Allegedly, yes,
1:02:38
according to Tommy. Tommy's got the full scoop,
1:02:41
Yeah, and he tries to explain that to.
1:02:46
Haywood wants to Tommy to tell Andy that he knows the guy.
1:02:49
Yeah, come on, let's go to Norton.
1:02:51
Bad call. I think we sometimes, not we
1:02:55
them people forget of people's intentions and their best
1:03:00
interests of others because Norton's best interests
1:03:04
obviously, and I wouldn't think of it either, is you need to
1:03:07
stay in here. Yeah, you know too much.
1:03:09
You know too much, Yeah. You're my eyes and ears in here,
1:03:12
yeah. I need you to do what you're
1:03:13
doing. Yeah.
1:03:14
And you could sell me down the river if you're out.
1:03:17
Absolutely. For a guy who's a man of the
1:03:19
Bible, Norton. Yeah, I think that's the that's
1:03:23
the point. Yeah, I guess that's that's the
1:03:25
point. But I believed them.
1:03:26
I believe in the Discipline Bible.
1:03:29
That's it. He couldn't, dude.
1:03:30
He quoted the Bible. That's right.
1:03:32
I don't think you could. Chapter and verse.
1:03:34
Can you, Matthew? You know me.
1:03:37
Exodus 8, two. That's my jam.
1:03:40
That's OK. That's Magnolia.
1:03:43
OK, of course it is. Plague of the Frogs.
1:03:46
All right, we get Andy, though. He's fighting back.
1:03:50
Of course you are fighting me against Magnolia.
1:03:52
Andy, too, is fighting the Warden to believe him.
1:03:56
And we get Andy for the first real time in this whole movie,
1:04:01
excitable, angry, this is. Are we going on 20 years at this
1:04:04
point? 19.
1:04:06
He gets out at 19. So.
1:04:08
Yeah. So pretty close.
1:04:09
Pretty close. Yeah.
1:04:10
It's been stewing. Yeah.
1:04:12
He finally kind of blows up. How can you be so obtuse?
1:04:14
Oh, right. What did you say?
1:04:16
Right. Yeah.
1:04:17
I'm. I'm said.
1:04:18
I said to myself. Phil has heard that term before.
1:04:20
He's been accused of being obtuse.
1:04:21
Not by me. It's a triangle.
1:04:23
I wouldn't dare. It is.
1:04:24
So good work, buddy. Yes.
1:04:27
Anyway, so so is it, you know, it's deliberate watching that
1:04:29
exchange and he's like, it's my life is a moment where you
1:04:33
realize it's finally kind of gotten to him.
1:04:36
And why wouldn't it? This is the thing that drives me
1:04:40
bonkers in humanity is the warden's a bit of an over talker
1:04:45
and a bit of a negative Nelly. Yeah, negative.
1:04:48
Because Andy is saying, hey, let's go.
1:04:50
Do you know this? The place would have the pay
1:04:53
stubs, exactly what they was, if they still have it.
1:04:56
Yeah, the pro shop, the Gulf shop.
1:04:57
Well, they would have the records, of course.
1:04:59
Well, who's to say if he's even there?
1:05:01
You're like, just come on. Those people that do that drive
1:05:05
me absolutely crazy. The Norton's of the.
1:05:07
Why bother doing that is not going to work out for you
1:05:09
anyway. I had my first girlfriend.
1:05:11
I do that sometimes. Yeah, my first girlfriend.
1:05:15
I was gearing up for a family meeting.
1:05:18
I was distraught and I said I'm going to have a family meeting,
1:05:24
I need it, I need to do this good for you.
1:05:26
And she says, why bother? Nothing's going to change anyway
1:05:31
and you're probably not going to do it any, you know, to begin
1:05:32
with. I took AI, had a can of Pepsi in
1:05:34
my hand and I threw it basically right at her face.
1:05:39
Wow. Yeah, not quite.
1:05:41
I mean, it was, I was never going to hit her.
1:05:43
Was it diet at least or is it full on Pepsi?
1:05:46
Full on Pepsi. Wow, calories and all.
1:05:49
I was so enraged by the lack of just let it go, let it be
1:05:55
whatever it's going to be. But instead it's.
1:05:57
Yeah, but why bother? You're not going to.
1:05:59
Who cared what? Like, I'm feeling the thing.
1:06:02
Don't disregard the feeling. It's just what's going to
1:06:05
happen. And you should support or not
1:06:06
even support. Just shut up.
1:06:08
But because this or the warden, he's like, yeah, but you're not
1:06:11
going to. They're not going to have that.
1:06:12
That's even if he's still employed.
1:06:13
And maybe they don't have the number.
1:06:14
Shut the fuck up. Phil got a little bit triggered
1:06:17
here. I need to do this.
1:06:19
So what if it's a dead end? Who cares?
1:06:21
I got nothing but time here. Did that now?
1:06:23
Did that relationship with that girl last long?
1:06:26
Too long still with her years and years.
1:06:29
Yeah, that's right. Actually.
1:06:29
Now you're my ex. Probably 4 years, 17 to 20.
1:06:34
Yeah. Anyway, just it just if those
1:06:35
types of people infuriate me and I can feel why Andy would be
1:06:39
pushed to the limit there because it's his life, as he's
1:06:41
saying. But in general, just those
1:06:43
people that yeah, why bother? Who cares?
1:06:45
Cynical. I just have 0 patience for it.
1:06:47
Well, apparently not four years. You put up with it.
1:06:50
Well, there are other benefits. It wasn't that all the time.
1:07:02
What do you do with a guy who kind of wants the truth to be
1:07:05
told? You got to shut them up.
1:07:07
What A better place to put them is in the hole.
1:07:09
Not for two weeks, but for a month.
1:07:12
Yeah, whole month in the hole. Well, it's going to lead to more
1:07:15
than a month, but for now, as far as we know, it's a month and
1:07:17
I don't think I'm going to make it.
1:07:19
That's a long time to be in a hole.
1:07:20
I don't know the exact conditions.
1:07:22
Same meal every day, same time. I don't.
1:07:24
Think you even get a meal and very.
1:07:26
Dark in there. Very dark.
1:07:27
I mean I. They mess with your sleep.
1:07:29
Now what does that feel? Like, well, I produce my own
1:07:31
vitamin D because I'm, I'm a redhead.
1:07:33
Yeah, we don't. We don't need the sun.
1:07:35
You don't like the sun, you don't want the sun.
1:07:39
You've seen first hand what it does to me, so I'm OK there.
1:07:42
So we're just going to have a look at catch up on some rest.
1:07:46
On the concrete. On the well you know you get
1:07:48
used to, your body will mold. Wake you up in the middle of the
1:07:50
night. I sort of mentioned I didn't
1:07:52
love Tim Robbins in this, but when he got his visits in the
1:07:57
hole, I could get the sense that he's not liking this experience
1:08:01
too much. Yeah, yeah, Just laying there,
1:08:03
the sun sort of coming in his eyes.
1:08:04
That's how they fuck with. You I I enjoyed that he gets a
1:08:06
visit from Hadley Anne from Norton ultimately.
1:08:08
Yep, well, we get notification that he got his GED.
1:08:12
Tommy. Tommy did, yes.
1:08:13
From. So it worked.
1:08:14
All from the food guy. Yeah, all his lessons helped.
1:08:16
Yeah, wonderful. Unfortunately, Tommy gets to
1:08:19
celebrate with a trip out to the yard with the warden.
1:08:25
What are your thoughts on this thing?
1:08:26
Did you feel at any point did you remember I question back to
1:08:30
watching this movie The first time, But for your in your case,
1:08:33
before we get to me, did you anticipate what was about to
1:08:37
happen at any point? This is the second time where I
1:08:40
wrote something down before it happened.
1:08:41
OK? Tommy gets killed.
1:08:43
My exact words. OK, Yeah.
1:08:45
So I knew it was coming. How?
1:08:46
I don't remember exactly what happened, but yeah.
1:08:51
I mean, what else do you do from Norton's perspective?
1:08:53
You got to do it. You're so deep into this shit.
1:08:56
I wonder that if it had to be done at all, who is Tommy going
1:09:00
to talk to? You got to manage.
1:09:02
It though I suppose, but I just think like there is no it's.
1:09:05
More work to manage. It you can beat the shit out of
1:09:07
him again like Hadley, but who's he talking?
1:09:10
He's not bringing the the newspaper man up.
1:09:12
He's not sending a letter to another prison to say the hey,
1:09:15
this is the thing. He's not talking to the
1:09:17
governor, right? There's no access.
1:09:19
So how much of A threat really was he?
1:09:21
I don't know, but in 1994 I was fucking gutted.
1:09:25
Wow. So it really.
1:09:26
Upset you? I loved this character.
1:09:28
So you did like him? Yeah.
1:09:29
Yeah and when he got shot it was such a 14, like I was like what?
1:09:33
I was totally unexpected and very effective and I love the
1:09:37
shot again, Deacon's working magic, of course Hadley shoots
1:09:40
him in the dark. Takes 2 slow, quiet steps back,
1:09:44
shadows the light. You just get the sense.
1:09:47
Oh, and Warden even before that when he kind of does the you
1:09:51
sure that you can swear on it, right?
1:09:52
Gets them all. Worked up just to guarantee he's
1:09:55
doing the right thing in his mind.
1:09:57
Butts out the cigarette, makes a little motion up, boom bam,
1:10:01
three shots right in the chest. Really powerful.
1:10:04
Great. Scene So you like it more now
1:10:05
you appreciate. Or you always appreciate.
1:10:06
I always loved it. I just was like gutted.
1:10:08
I was so sad. Well, I think it's not about
1:10:10
being a threat, more of being a nuisance.
1:10:13
Sure. And you get to prove your point
1:10:15
that there's consequences here, Andy.
1:10:17
You may think you're one thing, but.
1:10:18
Exactly. It's maybe more for Yeah to shut
1:10:20
up. Andy, more than anything else,
1:10:22
you're setting a scene. And you can really see from Andy
1:10:24
moving forward like he's lifeless.
1:10:26
Yeah, basically he's like, he's broken, is what I wrote down.
1:10:29
He's basically broken and he talks to the warden, right?
1:10:32
He's like, I'm done, right? All the money, all that stuff,
1:10:36
I'm out, I don't think. So, buddy Warden.
1:10:38
Is not having. Anything.
1:10:39
Oh, you're out? OK, no problem.
1:10:40
Yeah, sure. You made your own bed too,
1:10:43
right, Andy? You've been complicit for this
1:10:45
long. You don't get to just call it.
1:10:47
I'm good, right? You're you're too deep.
1:10:50
So I like that dynamic for sure. And like you said, everybody has
1:10:53
a breaking point and Red is a little concerned.
1:10:57
Yeah. He's sort of getting the the
1:10:59
feeling and he's not all there. He's obviously distracted.
1:11:02
He's distraught. Yeah, well you get the the great
1:11:05
line, right? Like it comes down to one thing,
1:11:07
get busy living or get busy dying.
1:11:09
Great line and great line sums up the really the whole movie.
1:11:13
And then Red's like, which one's he going to go with?
1:11:15
Yeah, it's unclear. It's unclear, but made slightly
1:11:18
more clear, or at least something to maybe misdirect us,
1:11:22
is he borrows a rope, Maybe not. Borrows, takes a rope, gets a
1:11:26
rope. Yes, for a good friend, Sadler.
1:11:29
Yes, he would. Yeah.
1:11:30
And he's. Like why I didn't?
1:11:33
Know. Who's deserved?
1:11:34
Yeah, exactly. And I'm on his side on this.
1:11:36
Yes. And before this we get Andy
1:11:38
talking about Zejuantineo and where he would go, where to get
1:11:42
out of here. Zejuantineo would be the place
1:11:44
that's. The place to be.
1:11:45
Mexico, they say this about the Pacific Ocean has no memories.
1:11:48
Yeah, that's great. And I should go.
1:11:51
Yeah, we, when I first started the airline, we flew to
1:11:53
Zejuantineo. It's a real place.
1:11:55
But I never, I never did. But I it's like the only reason
1:11:58
I would travel there was based on this movie.
1:12:00
It is absolutely a real place. It just didn't ever make it
1:12:03
happen. What's your favorite ocean, by
1:12:04
the way? Pacific.
1:12:06
I thought it. Yeah.
1:12:07
That's the sense I got. Yeah.
1:12:08
Yeah. I don't know why I even asked.
1:12:11
Yeah, don't mean anything. With the rope comes suspicion.
1:12:16
Yes, for the group. For the group and us and as an
1:12:19
audience. True.
1:12:20
Yeah, cuz we're not. For first time viewers at least.
1:12:22
Yeah, because they start doing the roll call in the morning as
1:12:25
they should. And the last shots we have of
1:12:27
Andy is sitting in the dark, as we have seen a couple other
1:12:30
times, but he's looking distant, looking vacant, cameras pushing
1:12:34
in vacant. Where are we at with this guy?
1:12:37
And yeah, Sir, lights come up, nobody's there.
1:12:40
And that's a great scene. I love the sort of the pageantry
1:12:44
of that. Get out of here, I shit you not.
1:12:46
As the sort of guard comes wandering down.
1:12:49
Grant, get great camera moved all around.
1:12:52
You're a Dolly guy. You love a good Dolly.
1:12:54
It's phenomenal. It's really exciting.
1:12:56
And. And the reality that he's gone,
1:12:58
he was there in the morning, wasn't there before last night.
1:13:00
Yeah, he's there last night. And everyone's kind of
1:13:02
flummoxed. Yeah.
1:13:04
And the alarm's going off. They think he's gone.
1:13:07
He's gone. You got to get a search for him.
1:13:09
And makes you kind of want to throw rocks.
1:13:12
Yeah. It's a little bit of a cheat on
1:13:14
the reveal. Like, are we talking quadrants
1:13:16
here? No, no I wouldn't.
1:13:18
Say that all right, I've just I'm checking we haven't, we have
1:13:20
not used the term yet, no. So I thought.
1:13:22
You know, here's your chance, yeah.
1:13:24
It's all a bit of a retcon too, which is not possible.
1:13:27
It's my it's my favorite shot of the movie, really.
1:13:30
Yeah. I love the reveal of the poster,
1:13:33
the rock, going through it and hearing the great sound mix on
1:13:37
and on and on. Nominated Sound mix was
1:13:39
nominated. Did not win though.
1:13:41
No, it did not. No.
1:13:42
And then the warden pulling the poster down, camera pulling
1:13:47
back, it's just a phenomenal shot.
1:13:49
It's in like those great shots of movie montage, as you might
1:13:54
see. It's just fantastic.
1:13:55
I take those things for granted. I just thought that's a gaping
1:13:57
hole. Yeah.
1:13:59
That must have taken a while. Talk to the sisters.
1:14:02
I have the time for me. That.
1:14:03
Yeah, exactly. He would have loved that hole.
1:14:08
But I'm a time guy. I've said it 1000 times and I I
1:14:13
had to question myself, how long would that take?
1:14:16
He said that at the time I thought it would take 600 years.
1:14:18
Turns out he did it in 19. Pretty.
1:14:20
Good. It was a little bit loose though
1:14:21
so I I do appreciate them trying to explain it.
1:14:24
It wasn't as hard, maybe because of time has passed.
1:14:28
And pressure. And big.
1:14:29
Exactly pressure. Thanks for bringing that back My
1:14:32
main question. And I was like Oh my God this is
1:14:35
such BS. This whole movie is done for me.
1:14:39
I am gone toodle loose. As I asked myself after he left,
1:14:45
how did you put the poster back up?
1:14:48
And I thought that was a pretty valid question.
1:14:49
Yeah. Then I realized when they shoot
1:14:52
back to him. Yeah.
1:14:53
Doing the whole escape, which I'm glad they do.
1:14:55
I got to know. Yes.
1:14:57
Is the bottom part isn't pinned. Exactly.
1:15:00
OK. It's hanging.
1:15:00
So I was reeled back in within moments, begrudgingly, because
1:15:04
that would have really, you know, been a problem.
1:15:06
Now, like we said earlier in this episode, Philip, we love a
1:15:10
couple of things about prison movies, the transactional stuff.
1:15:13
Yeah. And we love the escape stuff.
1:15:15
Oh, yes. Here we get to be shown
1:15:18
basically 19 years. Yeah, that's a long time.
1:15:21
It really is. He's had that Little Rock
1:15:23
hammer. He's had many of them right like
1:15:24
cuz you presume that it would yeah in the book yeah it's like
1:15:27
nice little here lies salvation yeah sticking it so good
1:15:30
sticking it totally sticking it yeah.
1:15:32
This is not good for Norton though.
1:15:34
No, I I just think that the, the use of that the score is great
1:15:39
and climbing through 500 yards of shit to get out on the other
1:15:43
side it's. Nasty.
1:15:45
I would say it's worth it though in the grand scheme of.
1:15:47
Things 100%, Absolutely. Now, you probably don't remember
1:15:50
this, but there's a shot in Pleasantville from 1998 that
1:15:56
occurs where Tobey Maguire is looking in the rain.
1:16:00
Overhead shot, looking up, arms wide out.
1:16:04
Amazing scene. And Gary Ross, who directed that
1:16:07
movie Love Gary, said later. I ripped it off from this
1:16:10
Russian redemption. Well, he's honest.
1:16:11
About that because that's that that's that's the iconic shot
1:16:14
it's the poster of Andy looking up into the sun with his bag
1:16:18
full of stuff and. That that I thought, well, did
1:16:22
he know the blueprints after getting through the initial
1:16:25
hole? That's pretty good forethought
1:16:28
to know that he was going to go up.
1:16:29
He's going to go down, going to go through.
1:16:31
So that's why you had the rope to tie the stuff and bag it up.
1:16:34
But I guess you could assume that he's a smart guy, that
1:16:37
you're, you're going to need your hands free, I guess.
1:16:40
That's important, yeah. And also they talk about he's
1:16:44
got this solo prison cell for 19 years.
1:16:48
So you could get and you're drilling the hole.
1:16:50
You could go through that hole every night and you get a sense
1:16:52
as to where you're going. You just don't have to like
1:16:54
break the pipe, but you can get your lay of the land.
1:16:56
So as you come back by the time then like you're.
1:16:59
Saying he had the hole done. Like somewhat prior.
1:17:03
Somewhat. I'm not saying you don't know
1:17:04
exactly, right? Yeah, you didn't get the.
1:17:07
I'm guessing it'd be maybe no more than a month.
1:17:09
Sure, for sure. But you can do a lot, and that's
1:17:11
30 days of going out and scoping out your situation.
1:17:14
He looks like a scoper too. He scopes.
1:17:16
He scopes everybody's. I use scope.
1:17:18
I use scope. Use it more.
1:17:24
The bag, you know, in question in this moment manages to have
1:17:29
all Andy's life basically moving forward, right?
1:17:32
It's got all the documents he's going to need.
1:17:33
So the ID we talked about Randall Stevens, he's got all
1:17:35
that stuff. He did the old.
1:17:37
Swap did the switcheroo. Yeah.
1:17:39
Yeah. So what it does is it sets up
1:17:41
OK. Well, he's got the forethought.
1:17:43
He knows he's going to have to go through.
1:17:45
Maybe not the rain. Maybe it was planned.
1:17:46
Like, you know, there's some question of you.
1:17:48
I think choosing a thunderstorm would be a good choice totally.
1:17:51
It worked out well, worked out well and played well.
1:17:53
So what's good about that is we get Andy's sort of most euphoric
1:17:56
kind of moment. But what happens in that is he's
1:17:59
got the warden too. He's got the warden by the
1:18:01
balls. And we see in a little montage
1:18:03
what happens. Sends the story to the
1:18:05
newspaper. And he doesn't send it.
1:18:08
Randall does. That's right.
1:18:09
Randall Stevens. Yeah, takes care of it, Yeah.
1:18:13
Which I love because I again, I thought it was a great idea to
1:18:17
how to do the money laundering. But how it works well for him
1:18:20
now is it's a complete identity. Yeah, it's you're Scott free
1:18:25
essentially. And you think that it's sort of
1:18:27
doing it for the warden, right? You think as as Andy's
1:18:29
describing this earlier, it's fooled me, absolutely.
1:18:32
Not easy to do. That's right.
1:18:35
And this is where I think the emotionality of the story
1:18:40
becomes the thing that lets it live beyond its means.
1:18:45
OK, here it is. Because I think here's where we
1:18:48
get. I don't want to call it
1:18:50
saccharin. Good, because I don't know what.
1:18:53
That means sweet, sugary sweet, but we get the stuff that's easy
1:18:59
to swallow, emotionally poignant, and powerful perform
1:19:05
performances. So saccharine sounds pretty
1:19:08
sweet. So we get like what I think is a
1:19:10
really kind of a sweet moment, which is the four or five guys
1:19:14
around the table again. Yes, the voice over from Red
1:19:18
talking about how beautifully bright the feathers were out of
1:19:23
the caged bird. Beautiful stuff about how if you
1:19:26
let him out, you knew it was a sin to to keep that bird inside.
1:19:30
Can't be contained. But you the you notice that he's
1:19:34
missing when when it's gone, your place is that much more
1:19:37
drab. Like when I leave your house
1:19:39
exactly you get. It that in 94 and ever since has
1:19:43
been an incredibly powerful way. Again, we talk about the video
1:19:47
store or like these other jobs we have.
1:19:49
It's like, I was so happy when my dear friend Randall,
1:19:54
coincidentally Stevens Randall Akita, director of CC for me, go
1:19:59
check it out. It's on Amazon.
1:20:01
When he left the video store, we'd worked together for a year
1:20:04
and a bit. He felt that one, but I was
1:20:06
like, I want you to succeed. I want you to, of course, you
1:20:09
got another job, You got another opportunity.
1:20:11
You want to do this thing? Which is not easy for you.
1:20:12
No, but it it was so sad because I lost my best friend in
1:20:18
Vancouver, my first real friend in Vancouver, that I made it
1:20:22
felt different after he left. I wouldn't want him to stay
1:20:25
forever because I was miserable when I stayed forever.
1:20:28
So anyway, I just, I really connected that line even in 94
1:20:31
and then throughout my life, 'cause I'm looking at stays.
1:20:33
It's funny, 'cause when you left I didn't feel any of that.
1:20:35
Yeah, I feel nothing. And there's that too, right?
1:20:38
Not everybody does that. That's the beauty of that.
1:20:39
Why that that person is important.
1:20:41
Yeah. Well, we were by that time,
1:20:43
hanging out outside of work. We'd already crossed the
1:20:45
threshold. Yeah, if you will.
1:20:47
Yeah, playing Last of Us every night.
1:20:49
Yes, exactly. But many people came and went.
1:20:51
I was at the video store for 11 1/2 years, right?
1:20:53
Many people came and went but there's the handful that like
1:20:56
changed me when they left or like I was it was the vibe was
1:20:59
changed when they left and others just came and went made
1:21:01
no impression. I just want you to know I'm
1:21:03
honored to be part of that small amount of people that stayed in
1:21:06
your life. Absolutely.
1:21:07
This video store, Yeah. And someone who now has no life
1:21:11
at all is our good friend the warden.
1:21:14
And he decides ultimately that he's in way, way too deep and
1:21:18
he's just going to shut it down. Yeah, that's true.
1:21:21
He doesn't have his brain or either the warden.
1:21:24
He's he. Lost it all.
1:21:25
He lost, he lost it all. That's what you do.
1:21:27
Though you know they talk about Hadley being crying.
1:21:30
Cry. Yeah, I love.
1:21:31
It song like a Canary probably yeah.
1:21:34
So that's what happened there. Norton is gone.
1:21:36
So we can kind of eliminate that from.
1:21:38
That's right. New regime comes into town
1:21:41
basically. Exactly.
1:21:42
Yeah. New sheriff in town.
1:21:43
And what turns up happening is Red gets himself.
1:21:46
Paroled, yes. What are your thoughts on the
1:21:49
sort of it's just a made-up word, right?
1:21:51
The politicians word his speech about retribution and
1:21:55
rehabilitation. I really just like the irony of
1:21:57
it where he got denied every time before by saying something
1:22:01
that from scripted yeah, but lines that you they want to hear
1:22:06
and like no, no, even you're saying the right stuff but
1:22:09
denied. You don't mean it.
1:22:10
Yeah, now you're almost like taking a shot at the guy who's
1:22:14
in charge of rejecting or approving your parole.
1:22:19
And that seemed to work. Yeah, so.
1:22:21
It's calling it out, right? Like what?
1:22:22
This is all just artifice. But I think it's really good
1:22:24
dialogue, and I really think that's the ultimate stamp of all
1:22:29
stamps. You think the approved?
1:22:32
Yeah, that's that's the. Stamp.
1:22:33
Can you think of a? Better, is there a more life
1:22:35
changing stamp you're saying? I don't think so.
1:22:37
I mean we have both stamped bank deposit.
1:22:39
Slips of course dates, names exactly, but not a life changing
1:22:43
stamp like that. You're right, and we probably
1:22:45
never will. Shit, you're right.
1:22:47
It's big. I urge you to come up.
1:22:48
Not now. But you think about it.
1:22:50
You sleep on it. I come up with a bigger stamp
1:22:53
situation than a approved parole.
1:22:56
You, you let me know. I you know where I live.
1:22:58
You know where I'm at. I'll give it some thought
1:23:02
because please do as you say it. I, I, I can't immediately think
1:23:04
of a better stamp, bigger stamp situation.
1:23:06
I'm OK being proved wrong, but you're going to have to put the
1:23:09
work in. You're going to have to put the
1:23:10
work in. I'll take it you know who else
1:23:12
puts the work in my man? Red, red.
1:23:14
So he gets out. He does this is this is part of
1:23:17
my misremembering, but I'll let you go 1st and I'll I'll reveal.
1:23:20
OK, please I'm I'm curious you. Know it's embarrassing, I'll
1:23:23
still reveal it because. We see red in Brooks's reality.
1:23:31
Exactly same hotel, same job. This.
1:23:35
Is a little bit better though. Same voice over that is
1:23:38
questioning why is there, what it's all about, what he's going
1:23:42
to do without it. He thinks about hurting somebody
1:23:45
to go back in institutionalized. The only difference is the
1:23:48
urinal scene. Yes, only difference.
1:23:50
Yeah, that's right. Brooks didn't pee.
1:23:53
No, he did not. Didn't have to.
1:23:54
Didn't have to. I think the scene is a great
1:23:58
sort of misdirection that in hindsight is like, really
1:24:03
cheesy, maybe not cheesy, predictable, OK, big difference
1:24:07
buddy. But at the time I was just like,
1:24:10
Oh no, don't do it. It just felt like it was set up
1:24:15
perfectly well to mirror Brooks. And then that's when I realized
1:24:19
the movie it wants to be is not the dark, not the deep, not
1:24:23
emotional depths of despair or anything like that.
1:24:27
It wants to be the light movie hope.
1:24:28
It wants the hope. That's the hope.
1:24:30
And so we get Freeman leaving. He's sort of looking at the
1:24:34
compass, right? Which is the same glossing over
1:24:36
the. Yeah.
1:24:37
And a couple items there. Guns and compasses.
1:24:39
That's the name of the store. Yeah.
1:24:41
GS and CS. GS and CS your keys.
1:24:45
So after all of that, we've seen him.
1:24:46
He gets the compass wherever else.
1:24:48
Hit the road. Hit the road to Buxton.
1:24:50
You think he's on his way to Buxton pre bus?
1:24:53
Where did you start misremembering?
1:24:54
Have we gotten to that point yet?
1:24:56
Right in a round there and you said misdirection and Nick got
1:25:00
me. I was misdirected.
1:25:03
But The funny thing is I've seen the movie possibly twice and
1:25:07
like I said, I'd only pre written some lines down.
1:25:10
That did happen and I had written down.
1:25:13
I don't like how this is ending. I never liked the ending of this
1:25:16
movie. Probably one of the reasons I
1:25:17
didn't go back to it because I thought he met the same fate as
1:25:22
Brooke. I thought he ended it.
1:25:24
You thought this movie ended with red?
1:25:27
Hanging, hanging himself. And I was misremembering the
1:25:31
Brooks thing. Yeah.
1:25:32
And it wasn't until I think he got on that bus and got to
1:25:36
Buxton. I'm thinking, oh, wait a minute,
1:25:39
that's not going to happen. Something else is going to
1:25:42
happen. Yet I still didn't remember the
1:25:44
ending and. Actual ending, just not.
1:25:46
Yeah. But at this point, I knew it
1:25:47
wasn't the ending I thought it was.
1:25:49
Yeah, silly me, Phillip. Yeah, that's a tough one.
1:25:52
It's embarrassing. That's a tough one.
1:25:54
Embarrassing. I love the reveal.
1:25:55
So was red like that's a really kind of a yeah that he carved
1:25:58
that in the in the thing. But oh wow, that's a that's a
1:26:01
big jump. Yeah, so I mean, it didn't make
1:26:04
me love the movie, but it certainly helped a little.
1:26:06
Bit with it not, it doesn't end on a suicide.
1:26:09
Yeah, well, you never know. Oh my gosh, the movie ends.
1:26:13
Proper Reds on the bus. He's gets off at Buxton.
1:26:18
Like you're saying. He finds the rock that no
1:26:20
business in in Maine. No, absolutely, he reads the
1:26:23
letter. I like how he's all paranoid
1:26:25
like anyone looking. Yeah, I love it.
1:26:26
The fear, right? Because he's living in that
1:26:28
space. Forever, right?
1:26:29
30 years. That could have been an easy
1:26:31
oversight, but I like how that's.
1:26:32
Totally. He's got the money when he sees
1:26:34
the money. Oh shit, like.
1:26:34
Exactly. I shouldn't have this.
1:26:36
Yeah, it's it's fantastic. And we get the more voice over
1:26:39
now from Andy, but again, and Red is reading it so.
1:26:43
It's he's that sort of part of that.
1:26:44
He's the man for the job, buddy. It's that.
1:26:46
Same principle. And there's something about if
1:26:49
you've come this far, perhaps you'll come a little further.
1:26:52
I don't know what that is. That sticks with me, yeah.
1:26:55
But it's a line I've stolen and a couple of things I've written
1:26:57
generally. Yeah, you do that.
1:26:58
I just love your hack. I love it.
1:27:00
But more importantly, what I love is is the.
1:27:03
Pacific. Yeah, it's.
1:27:05
Your favorite ocean? It's the tail end.
1:27:07
It is it is my favorite open. It is the tail end ideas of you
1:27:11
know, he says, get busy living, get busy time.
1:27:13
We get that refrain again, but we also get the I hope I can
1:27:17
make it across the border. I hope the Pacific is as
1:27:21
beautiful as my friend. He's doing a lot of hoping.
1:27:24
I hope I can see my friend. What a hypocrite.
1:27:26
I hope it's my came around. It's, I think, you know, we
1:27:31
talked about endings before. Die Air 3.
1:27:33
I have cried at this at this moment over the years.
1:27:38
There's something incredibly positive and beautiful and sweet
1:27:42
and kind natured about those 4 lines each beginning with.
1:27:47
I hope that's good. It melts me every time I.
1:27:51
The cheese on a grilled cheese sandwich, basically.
1:27:53
Yeah, I love it. It makes the movie in a weird
1:27:56
way, because I love everything that came before and there's a
1:27:59
couple of nitpicks, but this the reason why this movie gets to be
1:28:01
#1 on the IMDb and nine point threes and whatever other
1:28:04
numbers you want to throw at me that mean nothing.
1:28:09
It's lines like that read by Freeman with the backdrop of the
1:28:15
Pacific Ocean and on the beach and these two men, after having
1:28:18
all the things we've just seen. Nice boat to.
1:28:20
Hugging on a boat. That she wasn't a very nice
1:28:22
boat. It will not.
1:28:22
Yet one day it's fucking magical and it puts all of the things I
1:28:27
I spent the last hour and a bit talking about, which is some
1:28:30
questionable choices here and there.
1:28:31
Not a lot though. And, and it could be darker or
1:28:34
whatever else. It does this so powerfully and
1:28:37
so beautifully that I can't help but be moved every single time.
1:28:41
Did you find yourself moved at all by the new ending, this
1:28:45
unreleased new ending you experienced?
1:28:48
I was more impressed with the fact that that's the first time
1:28:51
you sworn all episode. I threw a couple of them.
1:28:54
Did you really? Oh, I'm taking them out just to
1:28:56
make this a true statement. OK, Phil, we've had this
1:28:59
conversation before. I feel nothing.
1:29:02
I feel better about the ending than I had initially.
1:29:05
It's. Better than the suicide, yeah.
1:29:08
Granted, I think it's a nice shot.
1:29:10
It's a beautiful ocean, beautiful beach.
1:29:12
No memories. Exactly.
1:29:14
Which is a very place I would love to visit one day.
1:29:17
We should go. Yeah, but I'm not getting to
1:29:20
that level. OK.
1:29:21
It's the movie. Never did.
1:29:23
All right. What I want to say is I've
1:29:25
enjoyed talking about this movie more than the actual movie.
1:29:29
Wow. Which is hard to believe because
1:29:31
you're the person I'm talking to.
1:29:33
OK, it's long. It's 2/22.
1:29:37
That's my, that's my movie. Yeah, Yeah.
1:29:39
I could not that long. I could have waited because you
1:29:41
would have brought this off totally, eventually.
1:29:43
Totally. But I'm.
1:29:44
I said I'll just do it. Yeah, I'll just do it because,
1:29:46
you know, take the hit. Take the hit.
1:29:48
I didn't want to say it. I do certainly think it's a
1:29:51
movie that everyone should watch.
1:29:53
Yeah, I think so too. It's an experience, I think.
1:29:55
Worth having? It's universally.
1:29:57
It's a universal movie, yeah. I get that I am not part of the
1:30:01
10 out of 10 group, but I'm not I'm not the one guy which I did
1:30:04
not find. Actually I got as low as a three
1:30:06
out of 10. I couldn't find anything lower
1:30:08
and I stopped scrolling at that point.
1:30:10
So a lot of people really like this movie.
1:30:14
I don't quite get it. I think it's a fine movie.
1:30:18
It's solid. More than serviceable, I'll give
1:30:21
it. What about serviceable?
1:30:24
I think there's good performances.
1:30:26
It is well shot. It's just there's points in it
1:30:29
where I was kind of like, OK, it's a movie that I don't think
1:30:33
I need to watch again, ever. Wow.
1:30:37
Even though I had misremembered it, but now that I I know, I
1:30:40
know that it's locked. Sure, I would maybe let this
1:30:44
movie out on parole after 10 years and watch it again.
1:30:50
Despite having some good scenes and some good some good
1:30:52
dialogue, I never felt the intensity of it.
1:30:55
I never felt Annie's character ever in real danger.
1:30:59
You're right, yeah. At all, and I thought you needed
1:31:01
that. I wanted more of that.
1:31:03
The the stakes weren't really there.
1:31:05
It was a story and it was kind of spots were a little bit
1:31:07
predictable at some, but I did like the foreshadowing it did
1:31:11
do. I think it did everything pretty
1:31:13
well. The overall execution was good.
1:31:16
I just didn't find it overly entertaining.
1:31:19
OK. But that's just me.
1:31:21
Yeah, it's just. I know, but it's funny because
1:31:23
that's the reason I haven't watched it.
1:31:26
And I thought, well, I have to watch this, I'm missing
1:31:28
something. And I watched it again.
1:31:29
It's like, OK, it's OK, it's a good movie.
1:31:31
There's nothing wrong with it. One above serviceable.
1:31:34
Yeah, but I don't, I guess I can't.
1:31:36
I didn't walk away say wow. Yeah, that's what I've been
1:31:39
missing. Yeah, like I'm watching Die Hard
1:31:41
5 the 1st 15 minutes like oh man this is so cool.
1:31:45
This you know that that was predictable a little bit.
1:31:48
You know, everything's subjective.
1:31:51
I. Guess 100% that's the but.
1:31:53
It's harder to be this guy because there's so much of you,
1:31:58
that guy. There's so many. 10 out of 10s
1:32:01
or like, I almost feel bad not loving this movie, but the
1:32:04
reality is I can't force it. No, I can't force it.
1:32:07
I want it to. Lie for God's sake.
1:32:09
Thank you. Now you've alluded to that you
1:32:12
like the movie, almost loved it. Did love it.
1:32:16
How many times did you watch it? Because I'll be, I'll be, I'm
1:32:18
going to be perfectly transparent with you.
1:32:20
I waited till the last second to watch it.
1:32:22
Really. Because I even motivated No,
1:32:25
even though you took it off your shelf.
1:32:26
Exactly. I waited till today, watched it
1:32:29
only once. Yikes.
1:32:31
Right before, more or less right before recording, just so it was
1:32:34
fresh, so I had all my notes. I was ready to go.
1:32:37
I organized it and everything like that.
1:32:39
So I put the effort into the viewing.
1:32:41
But I'm like, I, I know I'm not going to be able to watch this a
1:32:44
second time. Yeah, I just, I just knew and
1:32:47
I'm not. And I I was correct.
1:32:49
There's no way I'm going to. I can watch this again.
1:32:51
Crazy. Yeah, I've watched it again in
1:32:52
10 years. Odd.
1:32:54
I just wasn't compelled enough. Yeah, yeah.
1:32:55
I mean, that's that's the thing. What I find interesting about
1:32:58
that is just because this movie is so Seinfeld.
1:33:02
I don't. I don't.
1:33:03
This is going to sound worse. It feels generic.
1:33:07
It feels like the blueprint for an inoffensive movie.
1:33:11
Maybe that's what I'm I'm getting from it.
1:33:13
Didn't take enough risks maybe. But everything like you're
1:33:15
saying is subjective. It's always compelling to me
1:33:18
when we do these sort of summations.
1:33:20
How your brain works or I try and figure out or not or what
1:33:25
something does or doesn't kind of connect on some level.
1:33:28
What's defective about Dave? Not even that, just like again,
1:33:30
you can go on for an hour about something like a Die Hard 5
1:33:33
which you know, I would look at and just think like there is
1:33:36
absolutely 0 redeeming qualities in this movie whatsoever.
1:33:39
Nothing original, nothing fresh, nothing curious, nothing.
1:33:41
Oh. My God, the helicopters.
1:33:42
Nothing challenging or curious or it was all predictable.
1:33:45
Nothing, you know, unique or anything like that.
1:33:47
And this movie is also not maybe the most unique or the most
1:33:51
compelling. It's pretty straight ahead
1:33:54
narrative and one is gold stars and the other one is sort of
1:33:59
like, I'll never watch this again.
1:34:00
And I feel like even though for me that what one of the weird
1:34:05
kind of cool things about this movie is in 94, I probably
1:34:09
thought this was one of the greats and I probably held that
1:34:13
it is sort of worthy of its status for most of that time in
1:34:17
the last 30 years. But when I did watch it this
1:34:21
time, because I haven't seen it in in a long time, I just
1:34:24
thought the same. I thought it was more Vignetti
1:34:26
than I remembered and it was a little heavy-handed at times and
1:34:33
it was less deep or meaningful than what it felt like at 15
1:34:38
generally right. Like the the motifs and so
1:34:41
forth. However, I fucking loved it.
1:34:44
I think it's great filmmaking, like like stylistically great
1:34:49
writing, great direction, great style, tone, all that stuff.
1:34:53
It checks all those. Performances and I don't need a
1:34:56
movie to challenge me at every turn.
1:35:00
I went to see a movie called Weapons the other day.
1:35:03
Oh. How is that?
1:35:04
It's excellent. Good.
1:35:05
Good to know we have to watch it.
1:35:06
And last week I saw together both horror movies and I was in
1:35:11
a room in a theater and people were playing this guessing game.
1:35:14
Not every movie needs to propel you forward that way.
1:35:16
It and like together, as an example, it's like pretty
1:35:19
straight ahead. It sets its themes and its tones
1:35:22
and its and its motifs and rides it out to the end.
1:35:25
As a formula and it sticks with it.
1:35:27
And it succeeds. It does exactly what it's
1:35:29
supposed to do. It's got jump scares at the
1:35:31
moment. It's got comedy when you need it
1:35:32
ends and whatever and you go. That's exactly how that movie
1:35:35
should go. Does that make it a bad movie
1:35:37
because it wasn't A twist ending or it wasn't a I saw it coming.
1:35:41
It's like not every movie is a challenge.
1:35:42
Not every movie has to push back against the norms and so forth.
1:35:45
This is a movie that takes all the history of prison movies and
1:35:50
adds it to a story of friendship and love of between two men in
1:35:54
particular. Not, you know, noteworthy, I
1:35:56
suppose, in a setting that is unconventional, but we've seen
1:36:00
it and brings it home in a way. They're like it's it could not
1:36:04
have been any better, even though it's exactly straight up
1:36:09
the middle line drive and. Good baseball reference.
1:36:13
I threw it in just for you dog days of summer and all.
1:36:15
Yeah. So to me, that's that's the
1:36:18
magic of the movie is that it is all the things that you could
1:36:20
look at and go and almost to ride it for doesn't take any
1:36:23
chances and go. But it doesn't need to because
1:36:26
what it's doing is perfect or near enough.
1:36:29
And that's my take away. So I love this movie.
1:36:32
I don't think it's the greatest movie ever made.
1:36:33
I don't know if it's the Top of the Pops, but it's.
1:36:35
Really good. Do you think it earns that top
1:36:37
spot on IM media even though I know you're yeah.
1:36:39
OK. I don't because for me, the
1:36:41
movies that make that are challenging, unique, change the
1:36:45
form, bring something new to the table, take some chances
1:36:48
visually or commercially, or like just just doing something
1:36:52
new with the media. However, this being in that sort
1:36:55
of top 10 or it's easy to see why this movie would be loved so
1:36:58
much because it's easy to love. It does everything just right.
1:37:03
Maybe not by you, but just generally speaking it does
1:37:05
those. Things I if you listened, which
1:37:08
I hope you did. I didn't nitpick like anything.
1:37:10
No, you're not at all. Which is ironic.
1:37:12
Which is another sometimes a weird thing with either of us
1:37:14
because we'll go through an episode where we don't tear it
1:37:17
apart and at the end it go sucks.
1:37:19
Like what? Did you not listen to the rest
1:37:21
of it? This is not a thing.
1:37:23
Let's bring something new every week.
1:37:25
I have one last question for you, OK, If you don't mind, of
1:37:27
course. Have you seen Freak Your Friday?
1:37:29
No, OK. No, I haven't made it out to
1:37:31
that one. OK, let me know, I'll tag along.
1:37:33
Oh, that's when that's going to get you out.
1:37:35
Someone's going to be out, buddy.
1:37:37
Loved by Jamie Lee Curtis. That's.
1:37:38
Right. Well, you know, no one's got a
1:37:40
movie in a year, so maybe July 26.
1:37:42
Maybe. All right, Well, lots of time to
1:37:43
prepare. Yeah.
1:37:44
Lock into that outing. Oh, folks, thank you so much for
1:37:47
joining us on this odyssey. We do appreciate it.
1:37:50
Visit us on the Facebook page off the shelf with Phil and
1:37:53
David, of course. Rate US five stars on your pod
1:37:55
catcher of choice. Subscribe so you never miss an
1:37:57
episode and please share it with any inmates you can find.
1:38:00
There you go, that's it.